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bored of education
02-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Wilfork, Warren and Seymour.

What are the contrct situations for these guys. I think they should def. keep Wilfork but the other 2 are expendable, Seymour had a great 3-4 years and is still very solid. warren is in his peak right now and is a top 3-3 3-4 DE.

They had a tough season as a collective this pat year but what do you think the Pats should do with these 3? Seymour is older yes, Warren is peaking right now and Wilfork is a dirty monster.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 10:36 AM
I think that's a fair assessment. I'm pretty sure we'll try to keep them all if we can. We've demonstrated before that we're willing to advance substantial financial resources into keeping that line together. Might not be able to do that, but I think we'll try. Seymour is STILL the best player on the line, IMO. He had a real great year last and is finally starting to put his prior years of injury behind him. He's probably the most likely to leave out of any of them though. Both he and Wilfork are free agents after this year. Makes us trading Cassel all the more imperative. Pretty sure we have Warren under contract for a few more years.

bored of education
02-12-2009, 11:06 AM
When Seymour is healthy he is a friggen beast. They may have the most talented front 3..well they should..they are all 1st rounders. :D

But I thought they all were becomming from agents in consecutive years, I maybe wrong though for the 5th time ever. Keeping those three makes your LBs alot better.

Geo
02-12-2009, 11:12 AM
Wilfork, Seymour, and Jarvis Green are all free agents after 2009. Warren is signed through 2013.

I expect Wilfork to definitely be re-signed. Maybe one of Seymour and Green, who turn 30 years old and 31 years old respectively this season, though.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 11:14 AM
Wilfork won't be allowed to leave. He's the key to it all. Seymour has a decent chance of coming back too IMO. Some things need to be moved around to work, but the Patriots are good at that and principally want Seymour back.

bored of education
02-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Wilfork, Seymour, and Jarvis Green are all free agents after 2009. Warren is signed through 2013.

I expect Wilfork to definitely be re-signed. Maybe one of Seymour and Green, who turn 30 years old and 31 years old respectively this season, though.

Interesting. They def. need to extend/re-sign Wilfork.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Interesting. They def. need to extend/re-sign Wilfork.

I would think we would go as far as to franchise him if we couldn't work a deal out with him. We can't afford to lose him.

bored of education
02-12-2009, 11:27 AM
I would think we would go as far as to franchise him if we couldn't work a deal out with him. We can't afford to lose him.

A beast of a NT like him are a dime a dozen. Look at how solid hampton has been for Pitt for years. It is probably one of the hardest positions to replace with even a 'solid' NT.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 11:32 AM
A beast of a NT like him are a dime a dozen. Look at how solid hampton has been for Pitt for years. It is probably one of the hardest positions to replace with even a 'solid' NT.

Yeah, far and away the guy on our defensive line. Enables everyone else to get loose.

3-4 DE is much easier to find if you're looking. I think we'll take a look at one of the defensive tackles next year if we get the chance. Wouldn't mind finding a way to land Vince Oghobaase.

Geo
02-12-2009, 12:04 PM
I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 12:05 PM
I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

I don't think we will. We have some holes to be filled for this year before we can start looking towards the future. If he somehow fell to the second, yeah, I could see it...but I don't think we would use our first round pick on him.

bored of education
02-12-2009, 12:06 PM
I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

That is the reason I made this thread. I really think they would take a look at him even though they have other needs. He might just be the BPA at that time.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 01:05 PM
BPA always seems to be the way, and even when they clearly have a guy targeted (Mayo) they manage to value him right while correctly predicting what the teams around them will do with their picks.

Keeping Seymour, Green and Wilfork is a stretch. Wilfork is the youngest and clearly the most difficult to replace so I'd say he stays. However, I also think he will demand top dollar and that could make it tough.

I won't be surprised if they draft a replacement at one of those spots and 'shock' everyone on draft day. I don't know enough about the prospects to say I like anyone in particular, but if there's a solid option that could play situationally in 2009 while warming up & learning to take over the spot in 2010 I'd be ok with it. But I still think I'm the only Pats fan on here that doesn't believe CB is a pressing need.

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE & OT
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB OLB CB

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE & OT
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB OLB CB

I think that's the biggest discussion here. What we actually need. By that system, I would have something like this.

Absolute must = S & CB
Need = OLB and RT
Need by 2010 =DE
Jury still out = HB WR TE

nepg
02-12-2009, 01:18 PM
Seymour had his best year as a pro in 2008. Ty Warren had a "down" year because of injuries, and Wilfork was his standard self. Warren's signed through 2013, but I think Seymour and Wilfork are on the last year of their respective contracts. The Pats will keep these guys together because it's going to be nigh impossible to replace them.
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thule
02-12-2009, 01:19 PM
I've been wondering if the Pats look hard at Tyson Jackson.

Names I've heard that have been surrounding the Pats are Brandon Pettigrew and Rashad Johnson.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 01:26 PM
No ILB anywhere in there, Electric? Was that an oversight, or are you expecting one of the young guys to be the long term solution alongside Mayo?

I have to bump that OLB spot up, though. You're right on that one, since Vrabel & Thomas are both up there in age. Even if one of the young guys becomes a solid long term solution (c'mon Crable!!) we still need a second OLB and I'm not convinced Woods is anything more than a special teams guy.

Amended version:

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE RT OLB
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB CB

(OT changed to RT for accuracy)

nepg
02-12-2009, 01:28 PM
If Tyson Jackson somehow fell to #48, I don't see anyway they can pass him up... To lock up a guy like that for 4 years at a 2nd round pick's salary? No brainer. I don't see how he falls there though... It will be interesting to see what happens with Matt Cassel. I think the Pats definitely will want Jackson at the right spot, but at #23, they have huge possibilities staring them in the face... Adding depth might not be an option.
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ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 01:30 PM
No ILB anywhere in there, Electric? Was that an oversight, or are you expecting one of the young guys to be the long term solution alongside Mayo?

I have to bump that OLB spot up, though. You're right on that one, since Vrabel & Thomas are both up there in age. Even if one of the young guys becomes a solid long term solution (c'mon Crable!!) we still need a second OLB and I'm not convinced Woods is anything more than a special teams guy.

Amended version:

Absolute must = S & ILB
Need = TE RT OLB
Need by 2010 = DE DT (draft or re-sign)
Jury still out = HB CB

(OT changed to RT for accuracy)

I just don't see ILB as a need right now. I don't really get why people think it's such a pressing need. We already got our super star at the position in Mayo last year. All we really need now in a thumper who can play the Ted Johnson/Tedy Bruschi role. Don't think it's even a direct "need" right now either. Vrabel is a much better fit inside than outside right now. I suppose if I had to, I would say that it's a need for 2010, but I think the best option is for us to draft a young OLB who can rush the passer and put Vrabel inside for the time being.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 01:43 PM
hhmmm . . . maybe. I suppose a combo of Vrabel & Tedy inside w/Mayo would work, but that would only be a one year solution. I guess it comes down to the youth on the roster at the outside spots with no names at all on the roster for the inside. But you're saying it's not a pressing need followed by saying 'we need a thumper' to go with Mayo.

I'm not saying trade the farm to get a blue chipper, but it has to be a day one consideration. With some depth at the position this year I'd like to see it done this April.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 01:52 PM
hhmmm . . . maybe. I suppose a combo of Vrabel & Tedy inside w/Mayo would work, but that would only be a one year solution. I guess it comes down to the youth on the roster at the outside spots with no names at all on the roster for the inside. But you're saying it's not a pressing need followed by saying 'we need a thumper' to go with Mayo.

I'm not saying trade the farm to get a blue chipper, but it has to be a day one consideration. With some depth at the position this year I'd like to see it done this April.

I don't even think it would be a combo though. Vrabel isn't an outside linebacker anymore. He's most a step. He's fine inside where he can just come up and hit put I don't trust him with the responsibility of being a full time OLB anymore. He's played inside for the entire year(for the most part anyway) a couple of years ago.

I defiantly think we need a thumper type, but guys like that are pretty easy to find. Don't think we have to worry about it this year. It might be nice to pickup some depth at that position this year, but I don't think we have to take an inside linebacker anywhere before the fourth round. Jaspar Brinkley would be the perfect guy to get, IMO. At the very least, gives us a bit of depth and could probably start in a couple years.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 01:58 PM
Vrabel is definitely done at OLB. The problem is he was pushed around quite a bit when he was moved inside. But perhaps Mayo is enough to offset that. When it was Tedy & Vrabel inside together it was . . . painful to watch.


Ok, I'm off to review the ILB prospects then.

nepg
02-12-2009, 02:10 PM
Well Crable is the type of player that can play either inside or outside in a 3-4. Brian Cushing fits that mold as well if you were looking at 2009 draft prospects. I'd like Clay Matthews, but it looks like he'll be overdrafted.
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hannah73
02-12-2009, 02:24 PM
So few ILB would fit the pats, ie how are they at taking on blockers? That's difficult to project from someone in a 4-3 who didn't have to do it.

Jaspar Brinkley comes to mind. He has the size anyway.

Not sure how he is in coverage.

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 02:48 PM
Vrabel is definitely done at OLB. The problem is he was pushed around quite a bit when he was moved inside. But perhaps Mayo is enough to offset that. When it was Tedy & Vrabel inside together it was . . . painful to watch.


Ok, I'm off to review the ILB prospects then.

He did? I don't know. I think he handled it quite well. He hasn't been asked to do it extensively since AT came to town, but I really thought Vrabel was at his best when he was playing inside, outside of a couple years ago when he really went off.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 03:09 PM
The year before Thomas was brought in, right? I recall the run D being very soft up the middle. EDIT: maybe I'm thinking wrong here . . . maybe it was when Rosy got hurt and Thomas had to move outside. I'll have to look into it more.


Anyway - I'm looking around the draft forum section for something along the lines of a dedicated LB prospect discussion. Unsuccessful so far . . . is there something like that on the forum? Or is it all player by player, mocks, and stock falling/rising?

Or should I just complete the thread jack and ask here? :)

Basically I'm curious about LBs (ILB & OLB) value by round and D type. Who will fit the Pats 3-4 vs. a Tampa 2 type guy, and who would be the always favored "versatile" guy that could project as ILB or OLB. (--> Cushing?)

ElectricEye
02-12-2009, 03:22 PM
The year before Thomas was brought in, right? I recall the run D being very soft up the middle. EDIT: maybe I'm thinking wrong here . . . maybe it was when Rosy got hurt and Thomas had to move outside. I'll have to look into it more.


Anyway - I'm looking around the draft forum section for something along the lines of a dedicated LB prospect discussion. Unsuccessful so far . . . is there something like that on the forum? Or is it all player by player, mocks, and stock falling/rising?

Or should I just complete the thread jack and ask here? :)

Basically I'm curious about LBs (ILB & OLB) value by round and D type. Who will fit the Pats 3-4 vs. a Tampa 2 type guy, and who would be the always favored "versatile" guy that could project as ILB or OLB. (--> Cushing?)

AT played inside that year. That's why he was a nonfactor as a passrusher. He was playing out of position, and personally I was never quite so clear why. There was a lot of discussion about it on this forum, but I'm not sure where it all went. Probably pruned.

Vrabel played inside on and off for the years before. It's really hard to say. In his hundred tackle season he spent a fair amount of time inside.

As far as linebackers go, I'll come up with a list of guys I think could be a decent fit for us inside in a bit. Have to go resolve some personal issues, but I'll be sure to get back to you on that.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2009, 03:28 PM
I'd appreciate that.

I expect a full report on my desk in the morning, and don't forget the cover sheet.

:)

bored of education
02-12-2009, 03:45 PM
I'd appreciate that.

I expect a full report on my desk in the morning, and don't forget the cover sheet.

:)

Dont forget to file those for me since you're my Admin Asst. ;)

and STOP JACKING OFF IN MY THREAD

focus to the on the topic!

nepg
02-12-2009, 05:35 PM
Thomas was a lot better at ILB than he's been at OLB for the Pats. I'd love to see him moved back inside. He was such a great playmaker on the inside...

It was unfortunate that he had to be moved to the outside. I do like Vrabel better on the inside, but he doesn't like playing there for some reason...

For OLB's, TBC was cut by SF - I'd love to see him back with the Pats. He was creating some serious havoc in the backfield towards the end of his last year in New England.

As far as prospects go, for ILBs in a 3-4, oftentimes good prospects are the bigger true 4-3 college OLB's. A guy I like is Lee Robinson out of Alcorn State. Laurinitis is somewhat questionable, as a 3-4 ILB, but if he didn't have to start right away, he could be damn good. I also like Scott McKillop and Robert Francois

It's somewhat slim pickins at ILB for 3-4 teams this year, but if the Pats can get a smart player who has a frame with room to grow, they could find themselves a real gem in some of these prospects...
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Don Vito
02-12-2009, 06:38 PM
They are definitely the core of our team. Seymour's presence his rookie year was so noticable, he made a huge impact on our defense and helped lead us to a SB as a rookie. To this day he is a superb player an Wilfork/Warren have emerged as stars as well. None of them will put up super stats, they aren't asked to (even though Seymour has had some great statistical seasons and Warren has had 1 or 2), but they do their jobs better than any DL in the league. We cannot afford to lose them and I agree they are the 3 most valuable players on our team with Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Welker, and maybe Meriweather right behind them. Now we need to get a secondary behind the big 3 and some more LB help.

Geo
02-12-2009, 07:31 PM
Also, Logan Mankins could be a free agent after 2009 too. I say could be because, if the league continues on with the current CBA and enters uncapped 2010, he'll be a RFA for '10 and then an UFA in '11.

Pats got some serious work to do.

Bigburt63
02-13-2009, 01:28 PM
I fully expect Wilfork to be re-signed for the reasons that others have mentioned. Seymour will be costly, and at his age with his injury past, I doubt we are able to re-sign him on our terms, which really really sucks. Although I would rather take some of that money and use it to re-sign Mankins who is a beast of a guard and should be a mainstay on our o-line (that and i have his authentic jersey, so I'll be pissed if he's gone :) )

HellonEarth84
02-13-2009, 09:18 PM
Sign Wilfork, Franchise Seymour.

Why has nobody talked about us Franchising him next year???

ElectricEye
02-13-2009, 09:22 PM
Sign Wilfork, Franchise Seymour.

Why has nobody talked about us Franchising him next year???

I mentioned that awhile ago I think. I think Seymour would fight it though.

ryno626
03-05-2009, 06:18 PM
Could they make a run at Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd or Tyson Jackson if he fell to the chiefs pick then send Seymour packing?

Don Vito
03-05-2009, 06:22 PM
Seymour will be a Pat this season, but I definitely could see us looking at a guy like Gilbert or Jackson in the second if they think Seymour is walking after next season. I don't want to see big Rich go anywhere, but a lot of teams are going to want him since he is an elite 3-4 DE.

FlyingElvis
03-06-2009, 08:45 AM
^ Agreed. They could target a replacement for next year, but Seymour won't be traded this year. If contract talks stall out he will get franchised next year so the Pats have the opportunity to get something for him.

nepg
03-06-2009, 10:26 AM
I mentioned that awhile ago I think. I think Seymour would fight it though.

Ya, I don't think he'd take being franchised well at all...
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FlyingElvis
03-06-2009, 11:06 AM
Can't say as I blame him. That won't change the team's decision, though.