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View Full Version : Atlanta thinks it can get a trade for the rights to Vick?


gramage
02-13-2009, 08:40 PM
The falcons have announced that they are going to try and trade the rights to imprisoned below average quarterback Michael Vick. Who do they think is stupid enough to give up a draft pick or a player for a quarterback that will be a PR nightmare and has proven to be a weak player despite great athletic ability. Especially considering Atlanta has no choice but to cut him for the team and the media.

I would't take Vick's current contract off the falcons hands if you offered it too me for nothing, how can a trade be possible?

Shane P. Hallam
02-13-2009, 08:43 PM
If it wasn't for the contract, someone would trade for him for a second day pick to ensure they nab him. Contract is just too big for the liability that is Michael Vick.

Vox Populi
02-13-2009, 09:18 PM
People under rate Vick just 'cause hes an ass hole. Sure hes not the best, but its not like he was the piece of **** quarterback some people make him out to be. Personality wise, sure...

russie
02-13-2009, 09:22 PM
People under rate Vick just 'cause he was a piece of **** quarterback

fixed it for you

TheBuffaloBills
02-13-2009, 09:30 PM
I would not want him anywhere near my team. Anyways, are there any reports saying if he is in shape or anything?

tjsunstein
02-13-2009, 09:35 PM
Any team that involves themself in this is going to have a PR problem. My only guess would be the Cowboys, I know how typical, but even I feel that's a very very longshot.

gramage
02-13-2009, 09:42 PM
People under rate Vick just 'cause hes an ass hole. Sure hes not the best, but its not like he was the piece of **** quarterback some people make him out to be. Personality wise, sure...

He was never accurate, he never made plays in the red zone passing, and he never made his teammates better.

Just look how much better the falcon wide recievers got with a rookie quarterback with some accuracy.

Halsey
02-13-2009, 09:59 PM
Arthur Blank, Thomas Dimitroff and the rest of the Falcon's organization are not dumb. They are just 'playin the game' in case of the 1% chance someone does want to trade for him. There also may be other less obvious reasons, such as trying to make Vick fans in Atlanta happy. The 10 that are left might be upset if the Falcons just released him outright before trying to trade him.

PACKmanN
02-13-2009, 10:04 PM
would the team trading for Vick have to pay him the money he had to pay back to the Falcons if the Falcons do trade him?

Shane P. Hallam
02-13-2009, 10:32 PM
would the team trading for Vick have to pay him the money he had to pay back to the Falcons if the Falcons do trade him?

Not exactly, but they would have to finish out his contract, which is still pretty big.

RaiderNation
02-13-2009, 11:01 PM
If he would redo his deal, Id want Oakland to trade a 7th rounder for him

d34ng3l021
02-13-2009, 11:15 PM
There is no harm in trying. An offer could have been made had it not been for his contract though. Damnit.

Matthew Jones
02-14-2009, 12:38 AM
Vick is among the top 20 quarterbacks in the league in my opinion. TD-INT ratio is nice, supremely athletic, by far the best scrambler ever, cannon arm. Low completion percentage but played in offenses that weren't built to take advantage of his strengths and with bad wide receivers throughout.

BlindSite
02-14-2009, 12:48 AM
With the wildcat in vogue if you can sign him to the vet minimum he'd be a weapon.

Is it possible to trade for him and then sign him to a new 1 yr probationary deal or would he need to be released and then re-signed negating the need for a trade anyway.

BradysKnee
02-14-2009, 08:09 AM
I'd trade a 7th for him if he takes a vet min.
He's served the time for his crime, he should be given a fair shot at return.

tjsunstein
02-14-2009, 10:21 AM
I would actually watch him if he made a comeback. I wanna see how he stayed in shape in terms of maintaining size and speed.

espfootball92
02-14-2009, 10:43 AM
I would not want him anywhere near my team. Anyways, are there any reports saying if he is in shape or anything?

I remember John Clayton reporting a few months back that he was throwing passes and benching 305 lbs.

Iamcanadian
02-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Atlanta is just going through the motions needed to placade the player's union. He will be cut ASAP and is untradable at this point with the salary cap dollars you'd have to absorb if you acquired him.
Oakland and Dallas have the only 2 owners who would allow Vick to play for them. However not even they would take on Vick in a trade and absorb the salary cap implications. Both will wait till he is a FA and then assess their choices.

BBIB
02-14-2009, 10:54 AM
He was never accurate, he never made plays in the red zone passing, and he never made his teammates better.

Just look how much better the falcon wide recievers got with a rookie quarterback with some accuracy.

Falcons in 2003 without Vick- 2-10
Falcons in 2003 in Vick's return- 3-1
Falcons in 2004 with virtually the same team -11-5 and NFCCG apperance.

Yeah he sure held the team back LOL

As far as the receivers you mean receiver as in one, Roddy White. But Roddy White was raw coming into the league. His development had a lot more to do about a vertical offense and great coaching. That's why he broke out in a season with QB by committee between Harrington, Leftwich, and Redman. And Roddy was still 2nd in the NFC in drops last year.

If it wasn't for the contract, someone would trade for him for a second day pick to ensure they nab him. Contract is just too big for the liability that is Michael Vick.

Pretty much sums it up. Falcons will have no choice but to release him because no team will be willing to take on that massive contract.

Unless there is somehow a way to restructure the deal, but I'm not sure that's even possible.

Halsey
02-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Vick is among the top 20 quarterbacks in the league in my opinion. TD-INT ratio is nice, supremely athletic, by far the best scrambler ever, cannon arm. Low completion percentage but played in offenses that weren't built to take advantage of his strengths and with bad wide receivers throughout.
Funny how the bad WR's weren't so bad when Schuab played or since Vick left. Playing in offenses not made for his strength is an excuse. Vick's problem was poor work ethic, pot smoking and distraction from other business ventures.

TimD
02-14-2009, 12:01 PM
The wide receiver argument is just dumb. They got better because they got older and more experienced/mature. It happens with young receivers all the time. It takes a couple of years to get started.

Loggerhead
02-14-2009, 12:09 PM
Vick was a damn fine player IMO. Since he was a scrambling QB he got a lot of bad flack. The bottom line is that Vick was a weapon who defenses had to account for. By all accounts he was working his ass off before he went to prison and was making strides. I would take Vick over half the QB's in this league. Why? He is controversial which means he will sell tickets and get people talking about my team. 2 if I am starting a guy like Frerotte, Kitna, or Bulger Vick would be a tremendous upgrade. He brings a dimension to the game that has never been see before. Vick's main issue is that he had poor pocket awareness.

With his athletism he should not have been sacked so many times. If a coach can teach him to get rid of the football instead of taking stupid hits I think Vick could be a very good QB. I could see Oakland, NYJ, or Minnesota signing him.

Halsey
02-14-2009, 12:12 PM
The wide receiver argument is just dumb. They got better because they got older and more experienced/mature. It happens with young receivers all the time. It takes a couple of years to get started.

It's only a dumb argument if you're a Vick apologist. Anyone who watched Vick with an objective eye could see his poor passing skills limited the offense. If it wasn't for Crumpler, his completion% would have been more like 40%. Young WR's do not cause passes to be overthrown, underthrown, thrown behind of crossing routes, etc.

gameplaya2435
02-14-2009, 12:35 PM
Al Davis will pull the trigger, contract and all. You just wait. ;)

ATLDirtyBirds
02-14-2009, 12:48 PM
Funny how the bad WR's weren't so bad when Schuab played or since Vick left.


Wow. This is just terrible. I mean, just ugh. Take a look at Shaub's Falcons numbers chief. The WR were awful.


And I'm hoping we can get a 5th-7th, and I think we might. I doubt it however. I'm just looking forward to him having another shot in the league and seeing what he can do with it.

Strongside
02-14-2009, 12:49 PM
No way this happens, he must have at least 35 mill left on that contract. Can't blame 'em for trying I guess

Kurve
02-14-2009, 01:06 PM
if i had some control on what the raiders would do ....id give atlanta Al davis and a bag of chips for Vick.

Bucs_Rule
02-14-2009, 01:07 PM
Al Davis will pull the trigger, contract and all. You just wait. ;)

If they didn't have Russell I think he would.

someone447
02-14-2009, 01:12 PM
I thought NFL players had contract stipulations regarding jail time. I think it is as if he retired, there is no contract, but the Falcons are the only ones who can sign him. Thats why they would need to trade the rights to him.

gramage
02-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Here's the contract that you would inherit in a trade:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+South/Atlanta/Features/2009/warner021309.htm
"Vick is serving time in a federal prison on felony charges related to dogfighting, but he is scheduled to be released in July. He is currently under contract to the Falcons through 2013, with the remaining five years of the deal worth $45.11 million, with another $3 million in possible Pro Bowl incentives. His 2009 base salary is $9 million, with another $6.43 million in bonuses."

lordquas
02-14-2009, 05:01 PM
its way to early for Atlanta to even be mentioning trading Vick.
Vick still has a lot to prove before he can even think about playing in the NFL again. No team is going to want him right now because every team has plans for QBs. Unless someone gets hurt, or retires.
But just imagine if Vick signs with Carolina once Delhomme retires.
Vick, DeAngelo, Stewart, AND STEVE SMITH. shitwouldbedope

BlindSite
02-14-2009, 05:47 PM
its way to early for Atlanta to even be mentioning trading Vick.
Vick still has a lot to prove before he can even think about playing in the NFL again. No team is going to want him right now because every team has plans for QBs. Unless someone gets hurt, or retires.
But just imagine if Vick signs with Carolina once Delhomme retires.
Vick, DeAngelo, Stewart, AND STEVE SMITH. shitwouldbedope

shitwouldbedayiquit being a panthers fan

PalmerToCJ
02-14-2009, 05:53 PM
There is no harm in trying.

That's what I'm saying. Sure, very slim anyone bites but if they don't, oh well.

TitleTown088
02-14-2009, 06:26 PM
Vick is among the top 20 quarterbacks in the league in my opinion. TD-INT ratio is nice, supremely athletic, by far the best scrambler ever, cannon arm. Low completion percentage but played in offenses that weren't built to take advantage of his strengths and with bad wide receivers throughout.

Vick hasn't played football in, what? Two seasons and you think he's top 20?

d34ng3l021
02-14-2009, 07:35 PM
Vick hasn't played football in, what? Two seasons and you think he's top 20?

Vick was just THAT good.

GET LOOSE
02-14-2009, 08:27 PM
Vick is among the top 20 quarterbacks in the league in my opinion. TD-INT ratio is nice, supremely athletic, by far the best scrambler ever, cannon arm. Low completion percentage but played in offenses that weren't built to take advantage of his strengths and with bad wide receivers throughout.

My thoughts exactly. If you put him on a team that has a nice run game with maybe a WR that can catch the ball when throw his way he can be a good QB.

someone447
02-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Vick hasn't played football in, what? Two seasons and you think he's top 20?

I think I can name 10-12 teams vick could start on. Lets start with the NFC North Lions, Vikings, Bears. Now for the rest of the NFL. 9ers, Chiefs, Bills, Titans(due to Collins age), Jets, Browns. So I guess I can only name 9. Those are the teams I wouldn't even hesitate to take Vick for. There are a few more than I would allow him to compete for the spot.

Smokey Joe
02-14-2009, 09:21 PM
He needs to go to the CFL or something for maybe a year or two, show he can still play a little, and some-what clear his name.

yodabear
02-14-2009, 09:31 PM
I heard John Clayton say the Rams last night. IDK why he said, or maybe it makes sense. He has to go somewhere where the fans don't give a ****. St. Louis abliges that.

TitleTown088
02-15-2009, 12:39 AM
Vick was just THAT good.

No, he sure wasn't. He wasn't even close to THAT good.

I think I can name 10-12 teams vick could start on. Lets start with the NFC North Lions, Vikings, Bears. Now for the rest of the NFL. 9ers, Chiefs, Bills, Titans(due to Collins age), Jets, Browns. So I guess I can only name 9. Those are the teams I wouldn't even hesitate to take Vick for. There are a few more than I would allow him to compete for the spot.

Vick (not to mention a vick who hasn't played in the NFL for two seasons and is coming out of JAIL) wouldn't start for an NFL team, unless some team got really really desperate.

d34ng3l021
02-15-2009, 01:03 AM
No, he sure wasn't. He wasn't even close to THAT good.




I was just kidding.

russie
02-15-2009, 02:40 PM
I think I can name 10-12 teams vick could start on. Lets start with the NFC North Lions, Vikings, Bears. Now for the rest of the NFL. 9ers, Chiefs, Bills, Titans(due to Collins age), Jets, Browns. So I guess I can only name 9. Those are the teams I wouldn't even hesitate to take Vick for. There are a few more than I would allow him to compete for the spot.

(looks at vikings sig) NO THANKS!!!!!

yourfavestoner
02-15-2009, 02:55 PM
Here's the contract that you would inherit in a trade:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+South/Atlanta/Features/2009/warner021309.htm
"Vick is serving time in a federal prison on felony charges related to dogfighting, but he is scheduled to be released in July. He is currently under contract to the Falcons through 2013, with the remaining five years of the deal worth $45.11 million, with another $3 million in possible Pro Bowl incentives. His 2009 base salary is $9 million, with another $6.43 million in bonuses."

His cap numbers mean more to Atlanta than the team that trades for him. Whoever trades for his rights is going to give him a short deal with a minimum salary a la Pacman Jones. The problem lies with Atlanta and absorbing all that dead bonus money.

someone447
02-15-2009, 03:20 PM
No, he sure wasn't. He wasn't even close to THAT good.



Vick (not to mention a vick who hasn't played in the NFL for two seasons and is coming out of JAIL) wouldn't start for an NFL team, unless some team got really really desperate.

I meant in terms of football only, disregarding his baggage. I'm not expecting him to end up back in football.

Addict
02-15-2009, 05:45 PM
shitwouldbedayiquit being a panthers fan

... yeah right. You'd cry for a few days and put your "I <3 DeAngelo" shirt back on and you know it.

TitleTown088
02-16-2009, 01:23 PM
I abhor Mike Vick ( even before the doggy dilemma), and don't think he ever was or ever will be a great NFL QB. but I can't help but imagine him in a Wildcat offense.

BBIB
02-16-2009, 01:51 PM
It's only a dumb argument if you're a Vick apologist. Anyone who watched Vick with an objective eye could see his poor passing skills limited the offense. If it wasn't for Crumpler, his completion% would have been more like 40%. Young WR's do not cause passes to be overthrown, underthrown, thrown behind of crossing routes, etc.

No it's a dumb argument because

A)Only one WR in Vick's entire career got better when he left, Roddy White.

B)It was the same WR who coming into the league pretty much every draft analysis said was it was going to take him a while to develop.

C)It was the same WR who did not even become a full-time starter until 2007 the year after Vick left. (White started 8 games in 2005 his rookie year and 5 in 2006, 2007 was first year he went into the year as a starter)

D)Same Wr who blossomed under the same WR coach who helped turn around the career of TJ Houshmanzedah.

This was nothing unexpected. Even Chad Johnson before the season said that Hue Jackson was going to mold the ATL receivers and that Vick would be a happy man, of course this is before the turmoil caught up to him.


There is no Vick apologist in these facts. The only objectivity is on those who reject these facts. Vick didn't hold receivers back. He didn't hold Crumpler back from being a Pro Bowl TE and being near the top of the league in terms of yardage, YPR, and TDs among TEs in the league.

And he didn't hold his receivers back. Roddy White the one guy who blossomed who Vick detractors try to use to tear down Vick, when there was a laundry list of reason that were even stated BEFORE he blossomed why it would be delayed.

BBIB
02-16-2009, 01:55 PM
Vick hasn't played football in, what? Two seasons and you think he's top 20?

Chris Redman
Played in 2003 (Missed 2004, 2005, and 2006 season)

3 years in between starts

Before 2007:
7 TDs
5 INTs

After return (30 years old in 2007)
10 TDs
5 INTs


Tommy Maddox
Played in 1995. (Missed 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 season)

5 years in between starts

Before 2001:
6 TDs
14 INTs

0-4 record as starter

After return: (30 years old in 2001)
42 TDs
42 INTs

15-16-1 record as starter


Todd Collins
Played in 1997 (Missed 1998, 1999, 2000)

3 years in between years in the league (9 years in between starts)

Before 2001:
16 TDs
19 INTs

7-10 record as starter

After return (30 years old in 2001)
6 TDs
0 INts

3-0 record as starter

-


An example of several players who missed as much time to more than Vick in between being in the league, and all of these guys just so happened to put up BETTER numbers when they returned.

Vick would be younger in his return than all of these guys and he was far more talented than all of these guys before he departed.

Vick is only 6 months older than Eli Manning. He's only 2 years older than Big Ben.

Im not buying the age or the time away from the game argument because neither are truly valid if Vick is in shape.

Menardo75
02-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Unless he takes a GIANT paycut there is no way anyone is going to trade for him. I think if he really wants to come back though he will take a pay cut.

BBIB
02-16-2009, 05:10 PM
Unless he takes a GIANT paycut there is no way anyone is going to trade for him. I think if he really wants to come back though he will take a pay cut.

Im not sure they can cut guaranteed money. Falcons will have to cut him

Then he will have to sign for a team near the league minimum with incentives

yourfavestoner
02-16-2009, 06:58 PM
Im not sure they can cut guaranteed money. Falcons will have to cut him

Then he will have to sign for a team near the league minimum with incentives

I just remembered that he also has the option of waiving his signing bonus money in exchange for his release a la Lavar Arrington. That might be what ultimately works out the best for both parties involved.

BBIB
02-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I just remembered that he also has the option of waiving his signing bonus money in exchange for his release a la Lavar Arrington. That might be what ultimately works out the best for both parties involved.

If he has that option that's definitely the way to go.

Supposedly the 49ers have stated they have not ruled out Vick.

mqtirishfan
02-17-2009, 01:17 PM
An example of several players who missed as much time to more than Vick in between being in the league, and all of these guys just so happened to put up BETTER numbers when they returned.

Vick would be younger in his return than all of these guys and he was far more talented than all of these guys before he departed.

Vick is only 6 months older than Eli Manning. He's only 2 years older than Big Ben.

Im not buying the age or the time away from the game argument because neither are truly valid if Vick is in shape.

First of all, Redman had shoulder surgery, then returned to football by 2005, shuffling around rosters. Collins never left football, and Maddox had 2 full seasons to get back into football shape.

Also, all I've learned from this post is that ****** QBs can continue to be awful.

BBIB
02-21-2009, 03:29 PM
First of all, Redman had shoulder surgery, then returned to football by 2005, shuffling around rosters. Collins never left football, and Maddox had 2 full seasons to get back into football shape.

Also, all I've learned from this post is that ****** QBs can continue to be awful.

Chris Redman did not play football in 2005 or 2006. He was signed and quickly waived twice in 2005.

And he put up 10 TDs to 5 INTs in 2007. That's not even close to awful. What was awful was the Falcons rushing attack and defense which is why they didn't win that year.