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View Full Version : Bengals franchise K Shayne Graham


Sveen
02-16-2009, 04:41 PM
The Bengals' first major move of the offseason Monday all but guaranteed kicker Shayne Graham's services for the 2009 season and wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh's entry into free agency.

When he heard that the Bengals had given Graham the franchise tag, Houshmandzadeh jacked the odds at him playing elsewhere in 2009 to "99.2 percent."

Graham told the Bengals public relations department he had no comment.

In Houshmandzadeh and Graham, the Bengals are looking at their two most consistent players of the last five seasons. Graham, who became the Bengals' first Pro Bowl kicker in 2005, has a slew of Bengals' records while moving into second on the all-time scoring list with 682 points, behind only Jim Breech's 1,151.

In franchising Graham, the Bengals had to tender him a one-year deal worth nearly $2.5 million and drop the idea for franchising Houshmandzadeh at $9.88 million.

Source: http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7503

Brodeur
02-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Who the hell tags a kicker?

PACKmanN
02-16-2009, 07:35 PM
Who the hell tags a kicker?

The Seahawks.

No comment= pissed off.

e-mac
02-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Atlanta did this year, also Elam was transition tagged a couple seasons ago in Denver, not common but not out of the ordinary eithor

AkiliSmith
02-16-2009, 07:47 PM
The Patriots tagged Vinatieri a few seasons ago.

Still the Bengals should the used the tag on their only offensive weapon, Houshmandzadeh.

Bengalsrocket
02-16-2009, 08:00 PM
Well, hopefully Marvin thinks he has a replacement for Housh in one of the many young receivers on our team. There really isn't a replacement for Graham readily available.

Housh doesn't show up to voluntary work outs, he's unwilling to put the extra effort into the team that is needed to get us over the hump in a division full of good defenses. I'm happy with this move, and I'm excited to see who lines up opposite of chad in 2009.

d34ng3l021
02-16-2009, 08:02 PM
Who the hell tags a kicker?

The Falcons franchised their punter this year.

tylerb929
02-16-2009, 08:07 PM
I'm excited to see who lines up opposite of chad in 2009.

Thats a question that probably depends more on where Chad goes, instead of who becomes the #2 WR in Cinci.

gramage
02-16-2009, 08:13 PM
When you don't have a kicker it can become a pretty big problem, and the financial investment is minimum, so it makes sense.

Strongside
02-16-2009, 08:18 PM
wat.

I'm actually stunned they didn't franchise Housh. Bad move imo.

hugegmenfan
02-16-2009, 08:31 PM
very bad move- kickers are easily replaceable i dont care how good they are. consistent 100 rec/year WRs are not...

SenorGato
02-16-2009, 09:57 PM
Stacy Andrews will hit the market?

Wow.

Bengalsrocket
02-16-2009, 10:23 PM
Stacy Andrews will hit the market?

Wow.

his injury could possibly have been career ending. Not to mention, he's said he wanted to play with his brother in Philly already so he's not the long term answer.

BeerBaron
02-16-2009, 10:26 PM
This isn't too strange imo. The price for kickers and punters is actually kinda reasonable compared to what it would have cost them to tag Housh or Andrews. And this way they at least make sure one of their free agents stays with the team.

AkiliSmith
02-16-2009, 10:30 PM
his injury could possibly have been career ending. Not to mention, he's said he wanted to play with his brother in Philly already so he's not the long term answer.
Plus he was terrible

RaiderNation
02-17-2009, 12:33 AM
Best offseason move they will make

Menardo75
02-17-2009, 02:04 AM
T.J. in green man that looks good.

Hurricanes25
02-17-2009, 02:10 AM
Who the hell tags a kicker?

This explains why the Bengals are horrible just about every year.

Shane P. Hallam
02-17-2009, 04:12 AM
This explains why the Bengals are horrible just about every year.

New England has tagged Vinatieri before...

It's one of the cheapest tags and keeps a top kicker.

MetSox17
02-17-2009, 10:24 AM
To those complaining about them not tagging Houshmandzadeh, just get it through your head that the Bungles have given up on trying to win now. They need to re-build that team, and it doesn't make sense to give top dollar to an aging WR.

Tagging Graham assures them of keeping their top flight kicker, at a small cost.

themaninblack
02-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Omg Teh Bungelz!

Hurricanes25
02-17-2009, 10:49 AM
New England has tagged Vinatieri before...

It's one of the cheapest tags and keeps a top kicker.

I know what your saying but a team that just isnt very good should not be tagging a kicker.

Bengalsrocket
02-17-2009, 11:17 AM
I know what your saying but a team that just isnt very good should not be tagging a kicker.

Our lack of talent has very little little to do with this year's franchise tag and a lot to do with draft picks being demolished. Guys like Pollack getting career ending injuries, Thurman getting spanked by the commish (unfairly might I add) etc.

MetSox17
02-17-2009, 11:56 AM
I know what your saying but a team that just isnt very good should not be tagging a kicker.

Why the heck not? What's wrong with tagging a kicker? If you have no one else to use it on, why not?

MarioPalmer
02-17-2009, 12:08 PM
This team goes as far as Carson takes them, this is the first move to seperate the two boners Chad and T.J. and its a good one. If you can't dump Chad then you dump his puppy T.J.

This team will draft one of the O-Lineman to protect Carson or Palmer will file suit against the Bengals for being the ******* Bungals and ruining a Hall of Fame talent.

MetSox17
02-17-2009, 12:12 PM
This team goes as far as Carson takes them, this is the first move to seperate the two boners Chad and T.J. and its a good one. If you can't dump Chad then you dump his puppy T.J.

This team will draft one of the O-Lineman to protect Carson or Palmer will file suit against the Bengals for being the ******* Bungals and ruining a Hall of Fame talent.

I agree that this team is slowly ruining Palmer's career. He obviously has all-world talent, and he has shown he can put it together, but he is slowly developing bad habits as a quarterback due to a horrible supporting cast. He is not the quarterback he was his first years in the league, and it has absolutely nothing to do with injury, and everything to do with bad management.

Brown Leader
02-17-2009, 12:42 PM
This team goes as far as Carson takes them, this is the first move to seperate the two boners Chad and T.J. and its a good one. If you can't dump Chad then you dump his puppy T.J.



What are you talking about. Yeah the first move toward success is dismantling your top ten offense. T.J. is and has been the heart of this team-why don't you ask Carson if he's okay with dumping T.J.

I'm curious what the Bengal game plan is. Rumors are both Chad and T.J. out. Are they trying to trade for T.O? or Boldin? or what.

FlyingElvis
02-17-2009, 12:50 PM
^ Interesting . . . If they could get Boldin to pair with Chad for his final season . . .


Franchising the Kicker is fine. But it will be irrelevant if they have no offensive weapons to get them into field goal range in the first place. Bengals = Fail. But that's nothing new.

MetSox17
02-17-2009, 12:56 PM
^ Interesting . . . If they could get Boldin to pair with Chad for his final season . . .


That would be borderline ********, and everyone on the FO would need to be fired if they traded for Boldin.

Where the hell is the logic in that? Why do you need ANOTHER headache WR?

FlyingElvis
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol

ThePudge
02-17-2009, 01:32 PM
To those complaining about them not tagging Houshmandzadeh, just get it through your head that the Bungles have given up on trying to win now. They need to re-build that team, and it doesn't make sense to give top dollar to an aging WR.

Tagging Graham assures them of keeping their top flight kicker, at a small cost.

I couldn't disagree more with the re-building comment. The Bengals are seen as a trendy sleeper next season and for good reason. If you asked the casual football fan where the Bengals defense finished this season, they'd probably tell you something along the 20th-27th line. The Bengals finished 12th in the league in total defense and did it while missing WLB Keith Rivers for a good portion of the season, as well as starting DE's Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers (3rd DE Frostee Rucker also missed a lot of time.) Marvin White/Chinedum Ndukwe and Dexter Jackson were also unable to stay healthy at Safety. Jonathan Joseph, arguably the team's top corner battled injuries as well. Still, this young, injured, unit finished 12th in the league.

The Bengals also have a franchise QB to rely on. All signs are pointing to Palmer being 100% now, so he should be absolutely fine throughout the whole spring-workout process. Cedric Benson had a very promising end to the season, and I'd love to see him back in stripes next season, as I would with WLB Brandon Johnson. The Bengals couldn't afford Housh's franchise tag which is a ridiculous total. I'm not sure if the Bengals are being cheap here, or if they're ready to make a legitimate push in free agency. They are the team right now with the 5th best cap situation, I believe, with right around 28$ mil to burn. The team still has a #1 in Chad and Andre Caldwell showed enough a year ago to step up into that #2 spot. Chris Henry will man the 3, Jerome Simpson the 4, perhaps Marcus Maxwell the 5 spot. The offensive line needs some work, not a complete re-building process (Whitworth, Williams, and Collins are all solid pieces), but perhaps a veteran and rookie Center, along with a rookie Tackle to man either the Left or maybe even just the Right side.

Mike Zimmer did big things with that defense, and with roughly 9 picks in the upcoming draft, coupled with the fact that the Bengals are nearly 28 million under the cap, I wouldn't be so quick to call the Bengals a team in recovery mode. They did win three straight to close the season and will carry a little of that momentum, as well as a much easier schedule into 2009-10.

Would it surprise me if the Bengals made the playoffs in 2009-10? Yes, it would. Is it impossible? Not by a long shot. This team has much more hope and winning pieces than say, the Atlanta Falcons or Miami Dolphins did a year ago at this time.

I am a Bengals fan, I recognize there is some bias there, but I want to point out that the team is still very young with plenty of options on offense and the league's most improved defense of 2008-09. Zimmer's second year schooling the Bengals in his system should be big, and I expect even more improvement from this young unit.

As for tagging Shayne Graham, it saves a lot of money and saves Cincinnati from having to go out and find a kicker that can match the most accurate Kicker in Bengals history.

Brown Leader
02-17-2009, 01:35 PM
MetSox17That would be borderline ********, and everyone on the FO would need to be fired if they traded for Boldin.

Where the hell is the logic in that? Why do you need ANOTHER headache WR?



A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol

It would be headache for headache. Housh is out on the 27th.
And honestly, if Chad, Boldin, TO, Plax-if these guys are headaches I want my squad to have a permanent migraine. The cancer WR is a cliche unless he shots himself in the leg or can't catch 20 or so passes his way. (Edwards) Really-it's about coaching-a strong coach handles all that BS and keeps winning games.

ThePudge
02-17-2009, 01:37 PM
A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol

Chad actually said he wanted to stay on national television (NFL Network.) After losing T.J. (which we pretty much have), I feel we'll clutch on to our #1 WR more than ever. The Bengals are not repotedly shopping him, agent Drew Rosenhaus is. Basically, I think Chad will stay on as a mentor for our young receivers Simpson and Caldwell.

Brown Leader
02-17-2009, 01:40 PM
ThePudge
I agree with you-but rumors( I understand it's just rumors) are Chad out as well. They are in a good position but what are they doing with their vet REC.? Chad and Henry and Caldwell and the TE are not reliable.

EDIT- I just read your last post-kind of answers my question

FlyingElvis
02-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Even if Chad stays for this season he's likely out in 2010. If the Bengals are lousy again in 09 I would be shocked if Chad even considers playing for them, barring a franchise tag that prevents him from leaving.

Hurricanes25
02-17-2009, 04:25 PM
Why the heck not? What's wrong with tagging a kicker? If you have no one else to use it on, why not?

Why not Houshmanzadeh?

Gay Ork Wang
02-17-2009, 04:26 PM
Why not Houshmanzadeh?
He was disgruntled, he didnt want to stay and well it would be really expensive for just 1 year

Hurricanes25
02-17-2009, 04:27 PM
He was disgruntled, he didnt want to stay and well it would be really expensive for just 1 year

I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.

Gay Ork Wang
02-17-2009, 05:09 PM
I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.
better to be good at some position than at none

ThePudge
02-17-2009, 06:05 PM
I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.

A Kicker tag runs 1 Year 2.48 mil.

A Wide Receiver tag, 1 Year 9.98 mil.

9.98 - 2.48 = 7.50 million = One reason T.J. was not tagged.

Also, factor in the young Bengals receiving core (including promising Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson, and Chris Henry.) We still have a #1 threat at Wide Receiver in Chad Johnson, Caldwell looks to be the guy to take T.J.'s place. He came on near the end of last season and adds more in terms of speed and versatility. A true player to watch in 09' if the Bengals don't draft a WR high or chase one via trade or free agency.

Graham is one of the league's best and most accurate kickers. He remains the Bengals all time most accurate kicker. Behind him, we have literally nothing.

I don't oppose the move at all. I will be sad to see T.J. go, he is a very solid player who does the little things. Still, the team will move on with more money and promising young replacement plan, so it's tough to be mad.

PalmerToCJ
02-17-2009, 10:55 PM
They weren't going to tag TJ, so I support the move. Graham is by no means the best kicker in the league, he's automatic from 35 in, the long ones he's as bad as anyone else but I like kicking to not be a weakness for our team.

I would rather have TJ than Chad, that aggravates me about all of this. We're not far from being a defensively minded team (believe it or not) so it's not all bad.

Carson will just need Henry/Caldwell/whoever to get open for the 5-10 yard passes and hit Chad for the long ball. We MUST have someone to go over the middle, it won't be Chad.

Brent
02-17-2009, 11:00 PM
At least they tagged a guy who wants to be there? A good kicker is a hard thing to find.

TitleTown088
02-17-2009, 11:02 PM
Two pages on a kicker. Interesting.

senormysterioso
02-17-2009, 11:19 PM
Graham is one of the league's best and most accurate kickers. He remains the Bengals all time most accurate kicker. Behind him, we have literally nothing.


Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.

Bengalsrocket
02-17-2009, 11:33 PM
Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.

I respect that opinion, but strongly disagree here. Kickers have different degrees of skill. You pay the guy who has the most amount of skill. Most people don't realize how valuable good kickers are until they're gone.

Mike Brown was not going to pay both TJ and Chad. 9 million for a #2 receiver is absurd and everyone knows that. If your going to lose an offensive weapon like TJ, it's best to keep a kicker who can at least bail you out at times.

Bengals78
02-17-2009, 11:38 PM
A lot of people can kick field goals...but not a lot can do it when you need it or when you have 11 guys bearing down on you and 40,000 ppl yelling, makes it different.

GB12
02-17-2009, 11:41 PM
Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.
That's absolutely not true. Jason Hanson, the best kicker in 2008, was 96% on FGs. Shaun Shuisam, the worst kicker in 2008, was 72% on FGs. That is a huge difference. Those "200 guys on the street" are going to be at that low mark or worse. Yeah if you're happy with a 70% kicker than they're a dime a dozen, but there is a limited number of good kickers.

Bengals78
02-17-2009, 11:41 PM
I respect that opinion, but strongly disagree here. Kickers have different degrees of skill. You pay the guy who has the most amount of skill. Most people don't realize how valuable good kickers are until they're gone.

Mike Brown was not going to pay both TJ and Chad. 9 million for a #2 receiver is absurd and everyone knows that. If your going to lose an offensive weapon like TJ, it's best to keep a kicker who can at least bail you out at times.

TJ's biggest problem was he got it into his head he was a #1 type guy, which he isn't. He is a prototypical 2 guy and is very good at that. Is he good enough to warrant 10 million for one year? No.
Its simple enough, we will not spend money on a guy who is getting old and a #2 receiver, while we have a young talented guy waiting to get his shot.

GB12
02-17-2009, 11:44 PM
TJ's biggest problem was he got it into his head he was a #1 type guy, which he isn't. He is a prototypical 2 guy and is very good at that. Is he good enough to warrant 10 million for one year? No.
Its simple enough, we will not spend money on a guy who is getting old and a #2 receiver, while we have a young talented guy waiting to get his shot.
Oh, but he is. There are a number of places that he could go to and easily be the best WR on the team.

FlyingElvis
02-18-2009, 08:55 AM
^ Being the best on the team does NOT make him a #1 guy worthy of #1 WR pay.

Don't believe me? Ask Donovan McNabb.

Gay Ork Wang
02-18-2009, 09:02 AM
how about u make an argument why he isnt a #1

bored of education
02-18-2009, 09:16 AM
how about u make an argument why he isnt a #1

I wouldn't consider him a number one WR for a few reasons and also for a few different reason I would consider him a number one. I think it all depends on who you think is a number one and how you define it. Numbers don't define it to me, if they did then Wes Welker would be a WR you would build an offense around. I think the type of WR you are, the numbers, and the attention the defense pays to you all contribute in their own way in determining if a WR is a number one or not.

If you look at the numbers then you could easily say he is a nubmer one. Looking at T24L type stats like Yards after catch, touchdowns %, 1st downs caught, Yards after contact etc etc can prove that TJ is a number one. His nubmers are great. But is he a game changer, do defenses adjust their plan in accordance to TJ. Maybe, maybe not.

I don't see TJ as a true number one but has the numbers to be considered one for sure.

FlyingElvis
02-18-2009, 09:29 AM
The Wes Welker comparison is exactly where I'm going, too. Housh is bigger & stronger, but I still see him as a possession guy who lacks the speed to be a true game breaker. His numbers are fantastic, but that is b/c he has a talent like CJ to take all the extra attention while he does the dirty work underneath.

I don't know that there is any true way to argue his #1 vs. #2 (or anyone else for that matter) except to say I don't think he would be nearly as successful as the #1 threat. Double cover TJ and I'm guessing he can be held to zero catches by a good secondary.

Bengals78
02-18-2009, 10:19 AM
^ Being the best on the team does NOT make him a #1 guy worthy of #1 WR pay.

Don't believe me? Ask Donovan McNabb.

Exactly. He is best suited for being the number 2 guy.

Gay Ork Wang
02-18-2009, 10:20 AM
idk, he basically was the #1 this year, i mean seriously what did Chad Ocho Cinco do this year

Bengals78
02-18-2009, 10:22 AM
The Wes Welker comparison is exactly where I'm going, too. Housh is bigger & stronger, but I still see him as a possession guy who lacks the speed to be a true game breaker. His numbers are fantastic, but that is b/c he has a talent like CJ to take all the extra attention while he does the dirty work underneath.

I don't know that there is any true way to argue his #1 vs. #2 (or anyone else for that matter) except to say I don't think he would be nearly as successful as the #1 threat. Double cover TJ and I'm guessing he can be held to zero catches by a good secondary.

That's what I was going for. He isn't the kind of player to demand double coverage. I'm not saying he isn't very good but he isn't the gamebreaker. He is more effective short, to medium range (redzone ability is awesome) but he really doesn't have much in big play threats. He might have that trick up his sleeve but I've never seen it.

GB12
02-18-2009, 03:04 PM
^ Being the best on the team does NOT make him a #1 guy worthy of #1 WR pay.

Don't believe me? Ask Donovan McNabb.
Maybe not worthy, but it does make the team willing to pay him like it. Bernard Berrian got $7.25 million a year last offseason. TJ will get at least that.

FlyingElvis
02-18-2009, 04:02 PM
^ That I can agree with, but I have they feeling that team will be disappointed in the result.


I hope he proves me wrong. I like TJ.

Geo
02-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Maybe not worthy, but it does make the team willing to pay him like it. Bernard Berrian got $7.25 million a year last offseason. TJ will get at least that.
Berrian is also four years younger than Houshmadzadeh and is a proven deep threat in this league.

Bengalsrocket
02-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Berrian is also four years younger than Houshmadzadeh and is a proven deep threat in this league.

Housh's deep route is severely underrated because we don't utilize it very often. I'm not saying his deep routes are great, but above average for sure.

It seems like whenever a guy has great hands people immediately assume he has terrible legs.

RCAChainGang
02-20-2009, 12:41 AM
With him along side Reggie I think he would continue to produce!!!
:)
I can dream...