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Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 11:17 AM
now, before I say this, I believe stafford is the number 1 QB in this draft (though thats not saying much considering this QB class is god awful), but Am I the only one not sold on him as a leader or one who can win the big game? in 07, in the sugar bowl, Georgias defense harassed colt Brennan the whole game and no one asked stafford to win it

stats for 2007 sugar bowl:

14-23, 175 yards 1 TD 1 INT

and last year, against alabama, at home, big saturday night game, did stafford thrive?

24-42 274 yards 2 TD 1 INT

and finally, last year against florida

18-33 265 yards 0 TD 3 INT

so lets add that up, in the 3 biggest games of staffords college career

56-98 (or an average of 19/33; roughly a 57 percent completion percentage) 714 yards (an average of 238 YPG) 3 TD's 5 INTs, or almost a 1:2 TD to INT ratio

in other words, when in a big game, stafford is average to below average, and if your the lions, are you willing to sink 80-90 Million dollars with 35-40 million of it guaranteed into an average to below average QB? or would you rather spend 65-70 million, with 30-25 million guaranteed on a quality LT?

bored of education
02-18-2009, 11:21 AM
now, before I say this, I believe stafford is the number 1 QB in this draft (though thats not saying much considering this QB class is god awful), but Am I the only one not sold on him as a leader or one who can win the big game? in 07, in the sugar bowl, Georgias defense harassed colt Brennan the whole game and no one asked stafford to win it

stats for 2007 sugar bowl:

14-23, 175 yards 1 TD 1 INT

and last year, against alabama, at home, big saturday night game, did stafford thrive?

24-42 274 yards 2 TD 1 INT

and finally, last year against florida

18-33 265 yards 0 TD 3 INT

so lets add that up, in the 3 biggest games of staffords college career

56-98 (or an average of 19/33; roughly a 57 percent completion percentage) 714 yards (an average of 238 YPG) 3 TD's 5 INTs, or almost a 1:2 TD to INT ratio

in other words, when in a big game, stafford is average to below average, and if your the lions, are you willing to sink 80-90 Million dollars with 35-40 million of it guaranteed into an average to below average QB? or would you rather spend 65-70 million, with 30-25 million guaranteed on a quality LT?


Do the same for Matt Ryan's biggest games which would be against weaker opponets.........

...........then ****!

eaglesalltheway
02-18-2009, 11:23 AM
There were similar arguments last year with Matt Ryan (I was one of them) and Ryan is doing just fine in the NFL. Now I know these are different circumstances, but just looking at those stats from those games, there is a positive there in each one. In the Sugar Bowl they got the win, he didn't win it for him but he didn't put them in position to lose it either. The Alabama game is a decent game for any QB, they have a monster defense and that performance was not atrocious, though admittedly, unspectacular. The Florida game was a poor showing with the picks, but he put up almost 300 yards against one of the top defenses in the country, not a good game by any means, but He never totally bombed either of these games.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 11:25 AM
There were similar arguments last year with Matt Ryan (I was one of them) and Ryan is doing just fine in the NFL. Now I know these are different circumstances, but just looking at those stats from those games, there is a positive there in each one. In the Sugar Bowl they got the win, he didn't win it for him but he didn't put them in position to lose it either. The Alabama game is a decent game for any QB, they have a monster defense and that performance was not atrocious, though admittedly, unspectacular. The Florida game was a poor showing with the picks, but he put up almost 300 yards against one of the top defenses in the country, not a good game by any means, but He never totally bombed either of these games.

Matt Ryan also led his team back on the road in the biggest game of their season up to that point and threw both winning TD's

CashmoneyDrew
02-18-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm not buying that he can't win the big game. He's 3-0 in bowl games and basically every game they lost this year can be greatly attributed to the fact that his defense decided to come out and lay eggs in all those games.

bored of education
02-18-2009, 11:28 AM
10/25 @Virginia Tech W 14-10 25 52 285 2 2
11/3 Florida State L 27-17 26 53 415 2 3
12/1 Virginia Tech L 30-16 33 52 305 0 2
Bowl Game v. mich St 22 47 249 3 1


****. I didn't hear you barking when Matty ice came out last year. he was far from perfect. And those are just some games to prove it. And I could have had those numbers in that bowl game. Look at his average performances against maryland, NC State, Army and UMASS

9/8 North Carolina State W 37-17 15 34 142 1 1 .

Stats don't tell it all. Big Game stats even.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 11:32 AM
10/25 @Virginia Tech W 14-10 25 52 285 2 2
11/3 Florida State L 27-17 26 53 415 2 3
12/1 Virginia Tech L 30-16 33 52 305 0 2
Bowl Game v. mich St 22 47 249 3 1


****. I didn't hear you barking when Matty ice came out last year. he was far from perfect. And those are jsut some games to prove it. And I could have had those numbers in that bowl game

riddle me this, did Matty ice have a first rounder at RB to help him out? did Matty ice have a future 1st rounder at WR? Stafford this year had Moreno and AJ green (who admittedly was not there last year), Matt ryan had how many great skill players around him?

bored of education
02-18-2009, 11:33 AM
riddle me this, did Matty ice have a first rounder at RB to help him out? did Matty ice have a future 1st rounder at WR? Stafford this year had Moreno and AJ green (who admittedly was not there last year), Matt ryan had how many great skill players around him?

oh now that argument. Stats or supporting cast? Full picture? Big game numbers? Strength of schedule, opposing teams W-l, opposing teams 1st round defensive picks, opposing team defensive ranks, what they had for dinner that night. Look at the teams he faced about 10000x's stronger than the team matty ice faced.

So many different arguments.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 11:40 AM
oh now that argument. Stats or supporting cast? Full picture? Look at the teama he faced about 10000x's stronger than the team matty ice faced.

So many different arguments.

no one QB can win the game by himself, Joe Montana had Jerry rice and roger craig, Elway didn't win till he had TD, Marino never won because it was often just him. My main fault with Stafford is he tends to not rise to the occasion, so to speak. He goes from a very good QB to merely average. As for Matt Ryan, look at the scores of the games you put up, the Va tech game he thre both winning TDs in the 4th quarter, the florida state game was close, as was the ACC championship.

For stafford, the Alabama game was not as close as the score indicated, and they scored a good bunch of those 30 points in garbage time, and in the florida game, his team got blown out of the water.

My main point is: Stafford is an average QB who is getting severely bumped up by a very weak class overall for his position

gramage
02-18-2009, 11:41 AM
I think he's gonna be a bust. Bailed early on school when he was far from a polished college player. From everything I hear about him on TV or the radio he doesn't sound like a great student, just someone who got by on talent, both his own and what surrounded him.

The name that pops in my head every time I hear him evaluated is Jeff George.

bored of education
02-18-2009, 11:42 AM
no one QB can win the game by himself, Joe Montana had Jerry rice and roger craig, Elway didn't win till he had TD, Marino never won because it was often just him. My main fault with Stafford is he tends to not rise to the occasion, so to speak. He goes from a very good QB to merely average. As for Matt Ryan, look at the scores of the games you put up, the Va tech game he thre both winning TDs in the 4th quarter, the florida state game was close, as was the ACC championship.

For stafford, the Alabama game was not as close as the score indicated, and they scored a good bunch of those 30 points in garbage time, and in the florida game, his team got blown out of the water.

BC's line was 10000x's better than Georgias. So Matty Ice could sit back and have a picnic in the pocket before having to make a decision.

So many differents elements that you can say favor one or the other...alot of those signs point to Matt Ryan not being as successful as he was and some would point to him being that successful.

brat316
02-18-2009, 11:49 AM
why don;t you make an argument on his arm strenght, if he has the stamina to throw the ball for 16 weeks straight. Looking at the stats BOE put up for ICE, against Virgina, Flordia and Virgina again he threw the ball at least 50 times. but thats besides the point.


Wat are he actual faults, bad throwing mechanics, poor arm, bad accuracy, pocket presence, no ability to escape the rush, no IT factor, no qb pose, not a team leader? Are any of these his fault, try using these in your argument.

eaglesalltheway
02-18-2009, 11:51 AM
BC's line was 10000x's better than Georgias. So Matty Ice could sit back and have a picnic in the pocket before having to make a decision.

So many differents elements that you can say favor one or the other...alot of those signs point to Matt Ryan not being as successful as he was and some would point to him being that successful.

A lto fo people jsut think about the skill postions guys. I would've brought this up, but I think you've got this debate under control.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 11:55 AM
BC's line was 10000x's better than Georgias. So Matty Ice could sit back and have a picnic in the pocket before having to make a decision.

So many differents elements that you can say favor one or the other...alot of those signs point to Matt Ryan not being as successful as he was and some would point to him being that successful.

Ryans Line did own staffords line, That is true, but Stafford had a better just about everything else, skill positions, defense etc.

P-L
02-18-2009, 12:03 PM
and last year, against alabama, at home, big saturday night game, did stafford thrive?

24-42 274 yards 2 TD 1 INT
Stats only tell part of the story. This tells the rest:

qC8X_hI3ypw

Stafford wasn't lights out statistically, but in overtime with the game on the line he delivered one of the prettiest throws I've ever seen, right on the money.

nepg
02-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Give Ryan one Massaquoi, and BC goes undefeated his senior year, Stafford had 3-4 Massaquoi's or better... It's one thing to not have much talent around your QB, but it didn't matter how much time he had in the pocket, he HAD to throw it, and most of the time he had to force passes into tight coverage because the BC receivers couldn't get open. Rich Gunnell wouldn't even make UGA's roster, and he's BC's best receiver...
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LonghornsLegend
02-18-2009, 12:50 PM
now, before I say this, I believe stafford is the number 1 QB in this draft (though thats not saying much considering this QB class is god awful), but Am I the only one not sold on him as a leader or one who can win the big game? in 07, in the sugar bowl, Georgias defense harassed colt Brennan the whole game and no one asked stafford to win it

stats for 2007 sugar bowl:

14-23, 175 yards 1 TD 1 INT

and last year, against alabama, at home, big saturday night game, did stafford thrive?

24-42 274 yards 2 TD 1 INT

and finally, last year against florida

18-33 265 yards 0 TD 3 INT

so lets add that up, in the 3 biggest games of staffords college career

56-98 (or an average of 19/33; roughly a 57 percent completion percentage) 714 yards (an average of 238 YPG) 3 TD's 5 INTs, or almost a 1:2 TD to INT ratio

in other words, when in a big game, stafford is average to below average, and if your the lions, are you willing to sink 80-90 Million dollars with 35-40 million of it guaranteed into an average to below average QB? or would you rather spend 65-70 million, with 30-25 million guaranteed on a quality LT?


Do you know what Peyton Manning's stats and record looked like in every big game he had against Florida in College? He blew chunks every time they played.

bored of education
02-18-2009, 12:53 PM
Give Ryan one Massaquoi, and BC goes undefeated his senior year, Stafford had 3-4 Massaquoi's or better... It's one thing to not have much talent around your QB, but it didn't matter how much time he had in the pocket, he HAD to throw it, and most of the time he had to force passes into tight coverage because the BC receivers couldn't get open. Rich Gunnell wouldn't even make UGA's roster, and he's BC's best receiver...

Massaquoi won't get drafted until the 3rd/4th round or worse.

Who cares about surrounding talent as just one elment. it is just one of about 690456809584

Big game Peyton Manning lol He blew chunks in those games then made a commercial chunky campbells with those chunks!

Halsey
02-18-2009, 12:58 PM
Why would Stafford need to 'win' a game against a heavily outclassed opponent? Stafford didn't choose for UGA to play Hawaii. Worst criticism ever.

Stafford Didn't play that bad vs Alabama and Florida. He was under pressure a lot both those games, Against Florida he was playing from behind and having to try to bring the team back against an opponent who knew he was gonna pass every down once they were in a deep hole.

Since you brought up Matt Ryan, here's the stat line from his 'biggest game', the 2007 ACC Championship game: 33/52 305 yards, 0 TD's, 2 INT's

Matt Ryan will never make it! :D

Oh, and Matt Ryan had 5 years of college to work on his game to Stafford's 3. ;)

bored of education
02-18-2009, 01:05 PM
Why would Stafford need to 'win' a game against a heavily outclassed opponent? Stafford didn't choose for UGA to play Hawaii. Worst criticism ever.

Stafford Didn't play that bad vs Alabama and Florida. He was under pressure a lot both those games, Against Florida he was playing from behind and having to try to bring the team back against an opponent who knew he was gonna pass every down once they were in a deep hole.

Since you brought up Matt Ryan, here's the stat line from his 'biggest game', the 2007 ACC Championship game: 33/52 305 yards, 0 TD's, 2 INT's

Matt Ryan will never make it! :D

Oh, and Matt Ryan had 5 years of college to work on his game to Stafford's 3. ;)

Sadly, your arguments fit right in. ;)

nepg
02-18-2009, 01:23 PM
Massaquoi won't get drafted until the 3rd/4th round or worse.

...exactly my point concerning what Ryan was working with...

People try to bring up his stats against amazing defenses like VT without ever watching the games. If your receivers can't get open, and you have to throw the ball to make a play, there's not much you can do but try to make the best throw possible, and Matt Ryan was able to do that 99% of the time.

Who cares about surrounding talent as just one elment. it is just one of about 690456809584

Big game Peyton Manning lol He blew chunks in those games then made a commercial chunky campbells with those chunks!

Surrounding talent is just one element. When you compare their approaches to the game, Stafford falls horribly short.
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bored of education
02-18-2009, 01:53 PM
...exactly my point concerning what Ryan was working with...

People try to bring up his stats against amazing defenses like VT without ever watching the games. If your receivers can't get open, and you have to throw the ball to make a play, there's not much you can do but try to make the best throw possible, and Matt Ryan was able to do that 99% of the time.



Surrounding talent is just one element. When you compare their approaches to the game, Stafford falls horribly short.

Please explain to me Stafford's approach to the game in comparison to Ryan's as a senior.

Enlighten me please!

bored of education
02-18-2009, 01:55 PM
Comment From Lions Draftnik]
Stafford and Ryan are not alike. Ryan was a senior with a ton of starting experience and all the intangibles. His only question marks were physical. Stafford is a junior with at least one full year less experience than Ryan and his mental game is the one in question. That's a huge difference. That's like Manning-Leaf.
12:39 Scott Wright: Actually, Ryan only started for two and half years in college in a much weaker conference than Stafford. Also, Stafford is only 20-years-old whereas Ryan was 23 coming out of college.

As for intangibles, Stafford has no issues there. In fact, he gets high marks in that department. People do question Stafford's decision-making because he has thrown some interceptions but those same criticisms were there with Ryan as well.

Let's stick to the facts here rather than distorting the truth.


interesting Scott

!

brat316
02-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Comment From Lions Draftnik]
Stafford and Ryan are not alike. Ryan was a senior with a ton of starting experience and all the intangibles. His only question marks were physical. Stafford is a junior with at least one full year less experience than Ryan and his mental game is the one in question. That's a huge difference. That's like Manning-Leaf.
12:39 Scott Wright: Actually, Ryan only started for two and half years in college in a much weaker conference than Stafford. Also, Stafford is only 20-years-old whereas Ryan was 23 coming out of college.

As for intangibles, Stafford has no issues there. In fact, he gets high marks in that department. People do question Stafford's decision-making because he has thrown some interceptions but those same criticisms were there with Ryan as well.

Let's stick to the facts here rather than distorting the truth.


interesting Scott

!



These things I find interesting, are both people trying to say the same thing. Or is Draftnik contradicting himself

bored of education
02-18-2009, 02:03 PM
These things I find interesting, are both people trying to say the same thing. Or is Draftnik contradicting himself

noo that is Scott's reponse to draftnik's question/comment

gramage
02-18-2009, 02:14 PM
Comment From Lions Draftnik]
Stafford is only 20-years-old whereas Ryan was 23 coming out of college.





Is that supposed to convince me he's ready for the NFL? 3 years less studying and working at the most cerebral position in sports and I'm gonna give him 30 or so million in guaranteed money in the first 3 years of his deal?

georgiafan
02-18-2009, 02:31 PM
How come the people that bring up the talent around him never talk about how the WR's he had his first 2 years was the worst (or close) in the SEC.The only good OL he had was his freshman year. The low sack total the past few years are more of a product of play calling/scheme around them. While Moreno is stud, the overall rushing yards as a team are only average.

A.J Green is a fantastic talent, but he doesn't lead the SEC in receiving as a true freshman if it's not for Stafford.

bored of education
02-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Is that supposed to convince me he's ready for the NFL? 3 years less studying and working at the most cerebral position in sports and I'm gonna give him 30 or so million in guaranteed money in the first 3 years of his deal?

that gives him 3 years to learn and develop with a team. 3 years of development compared to comming in as a rookie? I think that's how the age thing can benfit Stafford in the long run. Not for the guaranteed $$ thing.

gramage
02-18-2009, 02:39 PM
that gives him 3 years to learn and develop with a team. 3 years of development compared to comming in as a rookie? I think that's how the age thing can benfit Stafford in the long run. Not for the guaranteed $$ thing.

But how many 1st round picks get 3 years to develop? 2, Aaron Rodgers and Chad Pennington, both of whom the teams considered moving on from before they got on the field (at least thats how it was reported, who can say if thats true?)

If your grabbing someone to take that kind of time with you don't take them 1st overall, you do like the Cowboys did with Tony Romo, you find him late (I don't think he was even drafted) and you see what happens

bored of education
02-18-2009, 02:45 PM
But how many 1st round picks get 3 years to develop? 2, Aaron Rodgers and Chad Pennington, both of whom the teams considered moving on from before they got on the field (at least thats how it was reported, who can say if thats true?)

If your grabbing someone to take that kind of time with you don't take them 1st overall, you do like the Cowboys did with Tony Romo, you find him late (I don't think he was even drafted) and you see what happens

That why I wouldn't last as a Gm. I want my rookie Qb to sit one year and I don't care if the team has to go 4-12. But then again I would be fired. The win now attitude and expectations hurt the QB more than they hurt themselves.

Geason Noceur
02-18-2009, 02:56 PM
Did Matt Ryan have to play behind an O-line made up of sophomores and true freshmen in the defensive-minded SEC? Did he play with a fourth string LT protecting him for half the season? Did he have to throw to his third string TE because both the 1st and 2nd stringers were injured? Was his best WR a true freshman who had a groin injury and was still learning the offense? Was his defense giving up 45 points a game?

Also, I didn't know only Stafford's junior season games counted? Maybe that's why scouts are not worried about Sanchez only starting one season.:rolleyes: It's very convenient to pick and chose "big" games to support your theory. How about also mentioning the other big games that he started in. Stafford went 11-4 as a starter against ranked teams. Two of the losses were against the eventual national champion. The other two were against an #8 ranked Alabama that almost won the SEC and against GT in which he threw for over 400 yards and 5 TDs.

Here are some of his other big games.
2006
#5 Auburn - 14 of 20 219 70.0% CMP 10.95 YPA 1 TD rushed for 83 yards and a TD
#16 GT - Led a late in the 4th qt comeback and threw the game-winning TD with a minute left.
#14 VT - Rallied the Bulldogs from an 18-point deficit in the fourth qt. Bowl game MVP.
2007 (played behind an O-line with three freshmen in it)
#16 Alabama - Threw the game-winning TD in OT.
#9 Florida - 11 18 217 61.1% CMP 12.06 YPA 3 TD 1 INT
#18 Auburn - 11 19 237 57.9% CMP 12.47 YPA 2 TD 1 INT. AU had the #1 ranked D in the SEC.
2008 (O-line consisted of freshmen and sophomores)
#13 LSU - 17 26 249 65.4% CMP 9.58 YPA 2 TD (in Baton Rouge)
Kentucky - 17 27 376 63.0% CMP 13.93 YPA 3 TD (Threw the game-winning TD with one minute left)
#22 GT - 24 39 407 61.5% CMP 10.44 YPA 5 TD 1 INT
#18 MSU - 20 31 250 64.5%CMP 8.07 YPA 3 1 Bowl game MVP.

Despite the difficult circumstances (young O-line, inconsistent WR's, pitiful defense, etc) Stafford never regressed. He has improved every single season while playing against some of the best defenses in college football. He has more fourth quarter comebacks and wins against ranked teams than Bradford, Tebow, McCoy, Sanchez, Harrell, etc. All of this while running a pro style offense and having more responsability at the LOS than just about every other college QB. The whole thing about him not performing in big games is completely unfounded.

gramage
02-18-2009, 03:02 PM
Not just the expectations but the rookie salaries. Odds are Stafford will be the highest played guy on the team before he's taken a snap in practice, and it's hard to have success when the biggest slice of you payroll isn't contributing. And just how good a quarterack are you going to get when he knows he most likely can't stay there more then a year or two. Kurt Warner and Kerry Collins are exceptions because they've won and when the young guys have played they weren't very good, and even they might not get resigned.

If your going to take a quarterback in the top 10, you have to believe he'll be ready to play by his second year, and I have a hard time believing a guy like Stafford is capable of that. He'll bomb once he gets on the field and be off the team after year 4 or 5. Maybe he'll make it on another team like Colling or Vinnie Testaverde (sp?) did, but that does nothing for the team that drafted him.

Halsey
02-18-2009, 03:06 PM
I just think it's funny that people talk about surrounding talent, but not the talent Stafford faced. Florida faced an Oklahoma team that was routinely scoring 60+ points and held them to 14 in the BCS title game.

Babylon
02-18-2009, 03:13 PM
now, before I say this, I believe stafford is the number 1 QB in this draft (though thats not saying much considering this QB class is god awful), but Am I the only one not sold on him as a leader or one who can win the big game? in 07, in the sugar bowl, Georgias defense harassed colt Brennan the whole game and no one asked stafford to win it

stats for 2007 sugar bowl:

14-23, 175 yards 1 TD 1 INT

and last year, against alabama, at home, big saturday night game, did stafford thrive?

24-42 274 yards 2 TD 1 INT

and finally, last year against florida

18-33 265 yards 0 TD 3 INT

so lets add that up, in the 3 biggest games of staffords college career

56-98 (or an average of 19/33; roughly a 57 percent completion percentage) 714 yards (an average of 238 YPG) 3 TD's 5 INTs, or almost a 1:2 TD to INT ratio

in other words, when in a big game, stafford is average to below average, and if your the lions, are you willing to sink 80-90 Million dollars with 35-40 million of it guaranteed into an average to below average QB? or would you rather spend 65-70 million, with 30-25 million guaranteed on a quality LT?


1st off let's not let this go unchallenged. Like Vodoo pointed out he's 3-0 in bowl games and has beaten LSU at least twice. He's won 30 games in the SEC, lets's not point out a couple against far superior teams and make a big deal out of it.

As to him being average, hyped and overrated that is your opinion and you're not alone but the majority think otherwise. Personally i think he has the best arm i've seen in 25 years (John Elway) so you can probably guess what i think of him.

gramage
02-18-2009, 03:17 PM
Personally i think he has the best arm i've seen in 25 years (John Elway).

Jeff George. He wasn't very good at throwing the ball to the right guy, but he missed with more velocity then anybody in the NFL.

Babylon
02-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Jeff George. He wasn't very good at throwing the ball to the right guy, but he missed with more velocity then anybody in the NFL.


There have been a lot guys with big arms but for arm strength, touch and accuracy i'll stand by my comments. Also we're talking a 20 year old here so i think we should keep it in context.

gramage
02-18-2009, 03:23 PM
There have been a lot guys with big arms but for arm strength, touch and accuracy i'll stand by my comments. Also we're talking a 20 year old here so i think we should keep it in context.

George is within 20 years. He's only been out of the league 5 years I think.

Add touch and accuracy to arm strength and I agree with you on Elway, but if we're talking purely who throws harder I still go with George.

Shane P. Hallam
02-18-2009, 03:28 PM
I am a big Stafford fan. His inconsistently was partly on him, but his offensive line was worse than Ryan's (if we are comparing,) and often forced him to make some quicker decisions than he should have, and his WRs weren't exactly route running extraordinaires.

Give me the intangibles. Give me the arm strength. Give me the above average decision making. I'll show you a QB who can develop into a great one.

If the Lions take him AND make good decisions this year, I think Stafford can be very good. But anyone, even Peyton Manning, could have ended up like David Carr in a horrendous situation.

bored of education
02-18-2009, 03:39 PM
I am a big Stafford fan. His inconsistently was partly on him, but his offensive line was worse than Ryan's (if we are comparing,) and often forced him to make some quicker decisions than he should have, and his WRs weren't exactly route running extraordinaires.

Give me the intangibles. Give me the arm strength. Give me the above average decision making. I'll show you a QB who can develop into a great one.

If the Lions take him AND make good decisions this year, I think Stafford can be very good. But anyone, even Peyton Manning, could have ended up like David Carr in a horrendous situation.


You should have quoted everything I said then typed below it:

BOE YOU ARE AWESOME!

bored of education
02-18-2009, 03:40 PM
I just think it's funny that people talk about surrounding talent, but not the talent Stafford faced. Florida faced an Oklahoma team that was routinely scoring 60+ points and held them to 14 in the BCS title game.

Oh I brought it up my friend!

BuddyCHRIST
02-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Stats don't tell much there, in the UF game this year he was playing pretty well and UGA was moving the ball but on atleast 2 drives early in the game his receivers dropped balls to kill drives and UGA got down and UF teed off on him. Also one of his INT's (that got returned for 6) was a blatant pass interference that didn't get called. My only real worry with Stafford is him only being a Junior and the unsuccessful track record of early entry QB's, but other than that I still think he's an elite prospect.

Race for the Heisman
02-18-2009, 07:48 PM
To redirect the topic a bit, in my mind Stafford has two real faults. One, I don't see him put touch on his short passes. I think one of the reasons he had so many incompletion was because he didn't take anything off some of short passes. Screens were good, but on many throws he just guns it and with an arm like Stafford's not many receivers can haul those in on a consistent basis. The other thing is that, again, from what I've seen, he tends to play just behind the pocket, rather than in it, so I'm not convinced of his pocket presence.

Screw competition and what not. Just look at the film and see what you see. That (above) was what I saw.

SenorGato
02-18-2009, 09:50 PM
To redirect the topic a bit, in my mind Stafford has two real faults. One, I don't see him put touch on his short passes. I think one of the reasons he had so many incompletion was because he didn't take anything off some of short passes. Screens were good, but on many throws he just guns it and with an arm like Stafford's not many receivers can haul those in on a consistent basis. The other thing is that, again, from what I've seen, he tends to play just behind the pocket, rather than in it, so I'm not convinced of his pocket presence.

Screw competition and what not. Just look at the film and see what you see. That (above) was what I saw.

Agreed completely.

That said, his pocket presence is more inconsistent than anything else. He definitely improved immensely as a junior in that category.

No one has better pocket presence in this draft than Sanchez.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 09:56 PM
heres a fun question: if sanchez and stafford had the same amount of starts, who do you prefer? I personally would take sanchez in a heartbeat, better arm, better leader, better performance in big games

Babylon
02-18-2009, 09:56 PM
Did he even have a pocket at Georgia? Most of the time he was throwing the ball with guys all over him. As for questionable accuracy, 61% in the SEC with so so receivers and a dog#### OL translates to about 80% for Texas and Oklahoma.

Halsey
02-18-2009, 10:17 PM
heres a fun question: if sanchez and stafford had the same amount of starts, who do you prefer? I personally would take sanchez in a heartbeat, better arm, better leader, better performance in big games

Better arm? :confused:

It's ok. I didn't really know as much about the draft as I thought I did when I was 14 either.

Buttered toast sonic
02-18-2009, 10:33 PM
Better arm? :confused:

It's ok. I didn't really know as much about the draft as I thought I did when I was 14 either.

....aw damn, how did I make that mistake?

Raider_fan_Canada
02-18-2009, 10:40 PM
I dont care what he did in those so called "big games". I really dont think you judge a prospect by the result of specific games or the W vs L.

Can he throw the football at a pro level? Can he operate an offense? Can he read defenses? Does he have a passion and dedication for the game?

Forget those "Big Games". Every QB out there is good for nothing and overated until they win one for some people.

Race for the Heisman
02-18-2009, 11:29 PM
The thing I like about Sanchez is his polish. He does things like a four year starter even if he is not. His dropbacks, rollouts, release; everything is very quick and tight with no wasted motion. Compare him against Stafford and Sanchez almost looks like his tape is in fast forward until the actual throw. That's why I actually like Sanchez better and why I'd take him first overall if I was Detroit. I think he has a better floor than Stafford and I've found that a high floor typically equates to a higher overall success rate in terms of achieving ceiling. A high floor typically means a player can be given opportunities early on and trusted as a rookie (see Ryan, Matt among others; Manning vs Leaf is the ultimate example) and this typically equates to long term success.

TACKLE
02-18-2009, 11:42 PM
Stafford should be the #1 pick though he is not the best player and has some definite question marks. He does a lot of things very well but his stats aren't where his faults are.

- He struggles to throw with pressure in his face. Being able to be an accurate passer and stepping up into a throw when you know your going to get hit is one of the most important traits of a successful NFL QB.

- He was inconsistent. Not just game to game but half to half. Although he put up consistent numbers, a lot of times you just don't know which Matt Stafford you're going to see.

- He wasn't a great player. It seems simple but the fact is Stafford wasn't a dominant college QB. It's odd to see a guy who is the consensus #1 pick who wasn't an amazing college football player. I know college success doesn't necessarily equate to NFL success but Stafford was arguably the 5th best QB in the nation at best. He was never really in any serious Heisman or AA discussion dispite playing on the team ranked #1 in the preseason. Although he has most of the desired traits, I just have to wonder how a guy who wasn't a dominant college QB is going to come in a be a great NFL QB.

ferris
02-19-2009, 12:03 AM
If Stafford is as good as some of you think he is, which personally I believe he makes fantastic throws but stands in the pocket too long and stares down his receivers which spells disaster at the next level - whatever - that being said - He faces the possiblity of being drafted by the Detroit Lions - let that sink in

only one good thing can be said about that - Calvin Johnson - but at the end of the day he has the worst oline in the league arguably of course, and no D. Lets all hope for different reasons he doesn't get drafted by the Lions and pulls an Aaron Rodgers. Nobody looks like a starter in this league in honolulu blue in silver, I dont care how damn good they are - and Ive been a lions fan far too long to admit

Bama9507
02-19-2009, 12:21 AM
He will go down as the biggest bust in history. Even bigger than Leaf.

StorminNorman
02-19-2009, 12:38 AM
no one QB can win the game by himself, Joe Montana had Jerry rice and roger craig, Elway didn't win till he had TD, Marino never won because it was often just him. My main fault with Stafford is he tends to not rise to the occasion, so to speak.

Are you kidding me? On that Virginia Tech game, he led Georgia back from an 18 point deficit. In the Alabama game Stafford ran a 1:00 offense and put his team in filed goal position and then brought his team the win in Overtime. He threw a last second game winning TD against Kentucky this year. Thats clutch play, big time.

StorminNorman
02-19-2009, 12:40 AM
- He wasn't a great player. It seems simple but the fact is Stafford wasn't a dominant college QB. It's odd to see a guy who is the consensus #1 pick who wasn't an amazing college football player. I know college success doesn't necessarily equate to NFL success but Stafford was arguably the 5th best QB in the nation at best. He was never really in any serious Heisman or AA discussion dispite playing on the team ranked #1 in the preseason. Although he has most of the desired traits, I just have to wonder how a guy who wasn't a dominant college QB is going to come in a be a great NFL QB.
He wasnt' a great player? He led the SEC in passing, by 700 yards.

Halsey
02-19-2009, 05:28 AM
If Stafford is as good as some of you think he is, which personally I believe he makes fantastic throws but stands in the pocket too long and stares down his receivers which spells disaster at the next level - whatever - that being said - He faces the possiblity of being drafted by the Detroit Lions - let that sink in

only one good thing can be said about that - Calvin Johnson - but at the end of the day he has the worst oline in the league arguably of course, and no D. Lets all hope for different reasons he doesn't get drafted by the Lions and pulls an Aaron Rodgers. Nobody looks like a starter in this league in honolulu blue in silver, I dont care how damn good they are - and Ive been a lions fan far too long to admit

You want a LB #1? That is exactly the kind of pick the Lions don't need at #1. That would do them as much good as taking Ernie Sims over Jay Cutler did. The Lions have not had a star QB for 50 years and have not been relevant for 50 years. Those 2 things are not unrelated. The people scared at the idea of taking Stafford would have been afraid to take Matt Ryan a year ago.

"OMG 19 INT's!" Remember that?

Threads like this were constant last year about Matt Ryan: http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21326&highlight=Matt+Ryan

Just take it easy, cowardly Lions fans. Stop looking for reasons to nitpick Stafford, and look at why he's becoming the consensus #1 pick. If your front office takes anyone other than Stafford, you're in for another decade of losing.

nepg
02-19-2009, 07:31 AM
He will go down as the biggest bust in history. Even bigger than Leaf.

I don't think that's possible. Even though he's the consensus #1 QB in the draft, no one really expects that much out of Stafford.
________
PlayfullLika (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/PlayfullLika/)

bored of education
02-19-2009, 09:05 AM
You want a LB #1? That is exactly the kind of pick the Lions don't need at #1. That would do them as much good as taking Ernie Sims over Jay Cutler did. The Lions have not had a star QB for 50 years and have not been relevant for 50 years. Those 2 things are not unrelated. The people scared at the idea of taking Stafford would have been afraid to take Matt Ryan a year ago.

"OMG 19 INT's!" Remember that?

Threads like this were constant last year about Matt Ryan: http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21326&highlight=Matt+Ryan

Just take it easy, cowardly Lions fans. Stop looking for reasons to nitpick Stafford, and look at why he's becoming the consensus #1 pick. If your front office takes anyone other than Stafford, you're in for another decade of losing.

Hmm look at who started that thread. So far he is on point :D

BuddyCHRIST
02-19-2009, 09:48 AM
He wasnt' a great player? He led the SEC in passing, by 700 yards.

Definitely, he may have not put up the numbers other guys put up but he was definitely one of the best QB's in college football. This past season was a season like no other where 3 Big 12's QB put up huge numbers, and Tebow was a flamer who put up some stats. They also all 4 played in wide open offenses that scored over 40 a game at least. Trying to make the point that he was only a top 5 QB is useless, guys just put up ridiculous stats this year.

And the "he struggles with pressure in his face" argument is bogus. He recieved way more pressure in his face than any top QB, either in college or from a prospect stand point and played very well. Every QB in the history of football struggles with pressure, thats why you blitz and get pass rushers. He handles it just as well as anybody.

Babylon
02-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Stafford should be the #1 pick though he is not the best player and has some definite question marks. He does a lot of things very well but his stats aren't where his faults are.

- He struggles to throw with pressure in his face. Being able to be an accurate passer and stepping up into a throw when you know your going to get hit is one of the most important traits of a successful NFL QB.

- He was inconsistent. Not just game to game but half to half. Although he put up consistent numbers, a lot of times you just don't know which Matt Stafford you're going to see.

- He wasn't a great player. It seems simple but the fact is Stafford wasn't a dominant college QB. It's odd to see a guy who is the consensus #1 pick who wasn't an amazing college football player. I know college success doesn't necessarily equate to NFL success but Stafford was arguably the 5th best QB in the nation at best. He was never really in any serious Heisman or AA discussion dispite playing on the team ranked #1 in the preseason. Although he has most of the desired traits, I just have to wonder how a guy who wasn't a dominant college QB is going to come in a be a great NFL QB.

First off i agree with some of what you are saying but two things.

He constantly had pressure in his face so take all his accomplishments and they have to be looked at in the context of pressure in his face.

Second there have been guys that didnt exactly blow away the field and were drafted #1: Elway, Aikman, Palmer and Eli Manning. I see a theme there.

Is he without faults? Not at all but most can be corrected and his upside to me dwarfs anyone in this draft.

5 Fingers of Death
02-20-2009, 12:57 AM
My god, it's like a quarterback is inaccurate because he throws an INT. No quarterback can go perfect without throwing an interception. How many times does a linebacker like Aaron Curry fill the wrong hole or overruns the running back. We don't talk about that. We don't talk about how Oher gives up easy sacks or if that Andre Smith is average against pass protection. But when the quarterback throws a INT, we blow it up like he's has the most inaccurate arm or makes the worst decision.

The quarterback is under such a microscope. Stafford threw 25 TDs and 10 ints. Never loss a bowl game. Never lost more than 2-3 games every season he played in Georgia. Never lost a game his senior year in high school. Won the state championship. Stafford has a great arm. Is accurate. 61.4% his senior year is nothing to laugh about. Is a winner. Good character. Hard worker. Great leader. Plays great win the game is close and under pressure. Just watch his last play against Kentucky where he eluded 4 rushers and threw off his back foot for a 20 yard dart to A.J. Green just high enough for his receiver to catch in the corner of the end zone with defenders covering the receiver. Just watch the game winning throw against Alabama where he threw the most beautiful spiral for the game winning TD. Just watch how Stafford threw 3 beautiful soft TDs against Michigan State University in is final bowl game to help Georgia beat MSU.

Stafford will be the Detroit Lions #1 pick.

Babylon
02-20-2009, 10:14 AM
:rolleyes:

yeah, palmer only won the heisman (finishing 11-2 with an orange bowl win). brilliant comment. elway finished second in the heisman voting his senior season. aikman won the davey o'brien and finished 3rd in the voting (finishing his senior season 10-2 with a cotton bowl win). eli manning won the maxwell as a senior, sec player of the year and third in the heisman.

so do you have any vague idea what the hell you're talking about, or were you just hoping no one would notice that you're utterly clueless?


Those guys were the best in their class no doubt but i think their careers took off in the pros. I would put Stafford's 10 wins a year and 3-0 in bowl games in the same ballpark with those others.

You obviously don't think that highly of Stafford which is fine but dont bash me to make a point.

Babylon
02-20-2009, 11:15 AM
my opinion of stafford has no relevance, compared to the fact that you're being completely deceitful (whether intentionally or not). i'm shocked that you would penalize eli for not going 3-0 in bowl games with a substantially worse team that was, at no point in his career, ranked #1 when his individual performance, at least to college football voters, was substantially better and that was against much better peer competition (at the quarterback position). elway was rated as the 15th best college football player of all time (not prospect, college player). how the HELL does that compare to stafford getting 10 wins with a better team? there is frankly no reason whatsoever for you to continue to push a point of view that is abjectly false at best. :rolleyes:

this is the point where you should simply say "yup, i was wrong and that was a silly thing to say" and then move on to other arguments that might actually be somewhat coherent.


I actually love those guys i referred to so it isnt like i think any less of them. In hindsight you're probably right it wasnt the brightest thing to say but a more friendly response probably would have been. "Are you crazy those guys were great you're usually a lot smarter than that" Of course if one didnt feel that way one probably wouldnt say that. Time to move on.

StorminNorman
02-20-2009, 11:21 AM
:rolleyes:

yeah, palmer only won the heisman (finishing 11-2 with an orange bowl win). brilliant comment. elway finished second in the heisman voting his senior season. aikman won the davey o'brien and finished 3rd in the voting (finishing his senior season 10-2 with a cotton bowl win). eli manning won the maxwell as a senior, sec player of the year and third in the heisman.

so do you have any vague idea what the hell you're talking about, or were you just hoping no one would notice that you're utterly clueless?

Compare the stats.

bored of education
02-20-2009, 11:41 AM
well there's a bloody compelling argument. :rolleyes:

fact: in comparison to the rest of the players in their respective years (at least two of which were substantially stronger classes), heisman voters, all-america voters, all-conference voters and other award presenters all felt that the four qbs mentioned were not just good, but top of their class good. top of their year good. that is not true of stafford and to suggest it is is not only ridiculous but patently and demonstrably false.

let's all stop lying just because we like a guy. there are plenty of good arguments for stafford. "elway sucked too!" or "zomg statz!!!1one!" don't come close to qualifying.


Arguments with multiple z's never really qualify.

bitonti
02-20-2009, 11:42 AM
stafford isn't perfect but you need a QB to have any chance in this league. the Lions could take a great OT, a great CB and a great DT with their first 3 picks, start Daunte Culpepper and still be terrible.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-20-2009, 11:47 AM
stafford isn't perfect but you need a QB to have any chance in this league. the Lions could take a great OT, a great CB and a great DT with their first 3 picks, start Daunte Culpepper and still be terrible.

True that. Thats how we roll. Terrible

Lions need to think about 2-3 years down the line. For me thats Stafford. QBs are so hard to judge, but Stafford appears to have the tools needed. Whether it translates we'll see. But we need a QB for the future, we have needed one for 50 years at QB. We damn sure deserve to have a QB drafted for us work out for once. Might as well take one that was in a pro style offense at least.

Iamcanadian
02-20-2009, 12:06 PM
Going into the combine and his pro day, Stafford is the odds on favourite to be the #1 overall pick. The pros love his arm and his intangibles. Will he be a great pro, who knows, that's always a tough call. However, stats are useless in this discussion, college stats don't mean much when your discussing a player's prospects for the draft.
Stafford as has been mentioned before is only 20 years old and will be one of the youngest QB's ever to enter the NFL. His best years are all ahead of him if he develops.
Most of the arguments against him used in this post are ridiculous IMO. He has faults mainly depending on his arm strenth to bail him out, but most of the arguements are the same rubbish I heard last year to describe Ryan and Flacco. Some people just like their moment in the sun when nobody can prove them wrong since he hasn't played a game as a pro. Heck, he hasn't even worked out for the pros.

Halsey
02-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Stafford to Calvin Johnson is gonna be nasty. Did you see some of the plays that were made between Stafford and true freshman AJ Green. Yeah, CJ is more experienced, more polished, bigger and stronger than AJ Green. The Lions offense will be built around the most talented WR ever and a rocket armed gunslinger for the next decade or so.

M.O.T.H.
02-20-2009, 01:34 PM
nevermind...

Babylon
02-20-2009, 03:02 PM
well there's a bloody compelling argument. :rolleyes:

fact: in comparison to the rest of the players in their respective years (at least two of which were substantially stronger classes), heisman voters, all-america voters, all-conference voters and other award presenters all felt that the four qbs mentioned were not just good, but top of their class good. top of their year good. that is not true of stafford and to suggest it is is not only ridiculous but patently and demonstrably false.

let's all stop lying just because we like a guy. there are plenty of good arguments for stafford. "elway sucked too!" or "zomg statz!!!1one!" don't come close to qualifying.

Nobody is saying Elway sucked, as a matter of fact he's my alltime favorite, he's the guy i use as the standard. He never got his team to a bowl game though and that is on the team not him, but in comparison Stafford's inability to accomplish certain things arent on him either.

bored of education
02-20-2009, 03:36 PM
again, i have no stake in the argument. i think stafford is a poor prospect from watching him, but i wouldn't try to argue with someone who thinks he's awesome. i do have a strong objection to misrepresentation of the facts when supporting (or not) a certain player.

I think he is awesome but I will not pass judgement on you!

blofeld
02-21-2009, 02:56 AM
As a new guy here, I wouldn't normally put up a first post like this, but it's needed.

so do you have any vague idea what the hell you're talking about, or were you just hoping no one would notice that you're utterly clueless?

I was going to ask you the same question.

my opinion of stafford has no relevance

Has no logic either.

that is not true of stafford and to suggest it is is not only ridiculous but patently and demonstrably false.

Not anymore false than that statement.

and that stafford played underwhelmingly on a rather good team

Are you literally brain dead? Stafford completed 61% of his pass for 3500 yards and 26 TDs, records at UGA. He did it behind a bad offensive line and in an offense that threw the ball far fewer times than the Bradfords, McCoys, and the Harrells of the world, and in the toughest defensive conference in the country. He most certainly was one of the top QBs in the game. I'm not even mentioning the fact that he played with the second worst defense in the history of the Georgia program. That's not hyperbole, it is a statistical fact. Do some research if you don't believe me. Stafford is the only reason UGA won 10 games and the only reason they won their bowl game against MSU. Take him off of UGA this year and they win 6 games maybe, 7 at best.

again, i have no stake in the argument

LOL! Yeah right.

i think stafford is a poor prospect from watching him

....and you have the audacity to sarcastically claim someone else's argument is compelling. That's about the least compelling argument I've seen. So Stafford is average and Moreno is garbage. Let me guess, a Gator, Vol, or a Yellow Jacket fan. Which is it? I'm guessing Gator.

but i wouldn't try to argue with someone who thinks he's awesome.

I don't know if you were conscious during your posts, but that's exactly what you've been doing.

i do have a strong objection to misrepresentation of the facts when supporting (or not) a certain player.

Then I suggest you stop doing it.

You haven't formed one coherent argument against Stafford because you can't. The facts don't back you up. Stafford is the #1 draft pick for a variety of reasons.

1. He played in a pro-style offense.
2. He took snaps under center most of the time.
3. He read defenses and checked off into different plays(and did so very well)
4. His upside and potential is sky high.
5. His arm is as strong as anyone who has ever played the game.(Doug Williams) may be the lone exception.
6. He has all the tools to be a superstar, and can make all the throws.
7. He's smart.
8. Has his head on straight.
9. Is a winnner. Very successul in the toughest conference in football behind medicore to bad offensive lines and mediocre receivers. AJ Green is the lone exception, and he was a true freshman this past year.
10. Great pocket presence, great throwing mechanics.
11. Talent that outclasses every other QB in this draft, and that includes Bradford.

These are the reasons he's the #1 draft pick. Does it mean he's the sure thing. No, because nobody is a sure thing in any line of work. But I'd say the chances on his making it big are better than the chances are of him being a bust. Of course Detroit is the great equalizer. Sorry Lions fans.

blofeld
02-21-2009, 03:09 AM
He struggles to throw with pressure in his face. Being able to be an accurate passer and stepping up into a throw when you know your going to get hit is one of the most important traits of a successful NFL QB.

He did that a whole lot at UGA. Not sure where you got this from becaus it is completely inaccurate.

He was inconsistent. Not just game to game but half to half. Although he put up consistent numbers, a lot of times you just don't know which Matt Stafford you're going to see.

His team, and especially his garbage offensive line were inconsistent. That goes with the territory with a QB. No QB is lights out all the time. QBs and offenses in general have their ups and downs, especially when the OL is bad.

It seems simple but the fact is Stafford wasn't a dominant college QB.

61% completion, 3500 yards, 26TDs, in a balanced offense that only threw the ball 25 times a game is pretty damn good, especially in the defensive minded SEC.

He was never really in any serious Heisman or AA discussion dispite playing on the team ranked #1 in the preseason.

Did you actually watch any UGA games this year? They were even close to being in that league. They were overachievers. They had no business winning 10 games. The only reason they did was because of Stafford, Moreno, and AJ Green. As I've said now for the third time, their offensive line and defense were just plain bad. Aside from Green their receivers were average at best. They had no tight-end. They lost their best offensive lineman for the entire season before it even began. They lost their second best offensive lineman for the season in the second game. They lost their middle linebacker for the season, again, before the season even started. They had something like 16 players lost for the season.

The truth is had Georgia's defense been any good, the only game they would have lost is the Florida game, which happened to be Stafford's only truly bad game. Football is not a one man game. A QB can only do so much. Stafford did a hell of a lot on a mediocre team.

cunningham06
02-21-2009, 03:54 AM
Having watched every Georgia game closely this year, I would like to say that Stafford will do great in the NFL, but I honestly think he will bust. Here are my concerns about him transitioning to the next level.

- Deep ball accuracy: while he has a cannon arm and everyone knows it, he really does lack accuracy on long balls. I can't tell you how many times I watched as AJ Green had to adjust on fades and cut inside to catch a poorly thrown ball by Stafford.

- His play in big games: While his stat line for the season was pretty solid, look at his performance against good teams. In big games he failed to deliver time and time again. Knowshon closed out the South Carolina game with a superman touchdown while Stafford was pretty much a non-factor for much of the game.

- Intangibles: I actually met Stafford last semester, and what struck me about him was how dull and lifeless he seemed. I just have a hard time seeing him help motivate teammates. Another issue, he is from Highland Park, a very affluent area in Dallas. He has had pretty much everything handed to him his whole life, and if he fails in the NFL it's really not too big of a deal for him since his family has money and he can easily do something else with his connections.

- Speculation: Stafford has all the tools you look for, but he was expected to be incredible coming out of high school, but he was rather underwhelming in college. It's a repeat of the same thing now. If you have watched Stafford closely, can you honestly say that he should be a top 5 pick?

To address the team as a whole, yes it had many problems. The defense was awful this year, and the offensive line was suspect all season. But some of you are making it sound like he is in the situation of Matt Ryan or Jay Cutler. Knowshon Moreno is incredible and was really the lifeblood of the offense all season. Also don't forget AJ Green who made incredible plays this year and seems destined to eventually be a first round pick. Massaquoi also made some big plays this season.

This is why I don't like Stafford's chances of success if pressed into action right away. On another note, Knowshon is legit and whoever gets him will not regret the pick.

Bama9507
02-21-2009, 05:16 AM
Stafford to Calvin Johnson is gonna be nasty. Did you see some of the plays that were made between Stafford and true freshman AJ Green. Yeah, CJ is more experienced, more polished, bigger and stronger than AJ Green. The Lions offense will be built around the most talented WR ever and a rocket armed gunslinger for the next decade or so.

You're wrong

Race for the Heisman
02-21-2009, 08:51 AM
You're wrong

Justification?

StorminNorman
02-21-2009, 01:22 PM
well there's a bloody compelling argument. :rolleyes:

fact: in comparison to the rest of the players in their respective years (at least two of which were substantially stronger classes), heisman voters, all-america voters, all-conference voters and other award presenters all felt that the four qbs mentioned were not just good, but top of their class good. top of their year good. that is not true of stafford and to suggest it is is not only ridiculous but patently and demonstrably false.

let's all stop lying just because we like a guy. there are plenty of good arguments for stafford. "elway sucked too!" or "zomg statz!!!1one!" don't come close to qualifying.

How about the fact that Stafford led the SEC in Passing Yards by 700 yards behind the worst offensive line in the conference? An offensive line made of inexperienced freshmen and sophomores that was constantly shuffled and changed. Stafford went up against elite defenses weekly and what happened? He lit it up. 3500 yards in the SEC is more impressive than 5000 yards in the Big 12 and its certainly more impressive than anything Sanchez has done.

Stafford is a proven winner and a proven leader. He is 3-0 in Bowl games including coming back from an 18 point deficit against Virginia Tech in the Peach Bowl as a Freshmen. You want other examples of poise under pressure? What about throwing a pitch perfect fade pattern in a must win game against Alabama in 2007? Or how about leading a two minute drill to win against Kentucky this year? Both of those games were on the road and in position where losses meant a sub par season for his team.

The guy is a flat out player that has improved in every category ever year and if the Lions don't take him it will be the biggest mistake made this offseason and one so large it will ensure that team never rises above mediocrity for the next five years.

TitleTown088
02-21-2009, 02:02 PM
Someone will be looking trade up to #9 ahead of SF when he drops. I think the Packers may oblige too.

Staubach12
02-21-2009, 02:06 PM
5. His arm is as strong as anyone who has ever played the game.(Doug Williams) may be the lone exception.

Hahahahaha Really? He has a good arm, but he's not JaMarcus Russell.

CC.SD
02-21-2009, 02:09 PM
Stafford's long ball accuracy issues are not going to be as big a deal as some people are saying. Besides, Dwayne Bowe or Calvin Johnson could easily make him look stellar, big frames down the field are fun for QBs.

Babylon
02-21-2009, 02:49 PM
Hahahahaha Really? He has a good arm, but he's not JaMarcus Russell.


Russell has a great arm but for strength,touch and accuracy on deep balls i'll take Stafford hands down. Better footwork also.

BBIB
02-21-2009, 03:34 PM
The problem with Stafford is that he probably needed another year of experience in college.

Although compared to Sanchez, he's like a savvy veteran.


But I think the Matt Ryan comparisons are way off because Matt Ryan needed that final year in school. Same with Jay Cutler. There is no way either one of those guys would have had early success without it IMO


If Stafford starts from day one he will fail

georgiafan
02-23-2009, 07:19 AM
According to what Mayock said yesterday he blew teams away on the chalk board.

Dirkman
02-23-2009, 07:30 AM
anyone who says MAtthew Stafford isn't a leader is an idiot. As someone who's lived in Dallas, and watched him since High School, I know the fact that he's a calm collected leader and his teammates look to him for direction. The Guy's been a captain since he was a sophmore e

Dirkman
02-23-2009, 08:06 AM
in the future, when you'd like to personally attack another member (since only one person has questioned his leadership), you should directly quote them, instead of being a coward.

further, you should understand that anecdotal evidence is utterly worthless as evidence of anything and is certainly not justification for calling someone an idiot.
Because Not wanting to quote a hideously long post is so cowardly. :rolleyes:

I didn't attack anyone, and I'm not being a coward.You can call it anecdotal evidence, but the fact that he was voted as a team captain right after his true freshman year is a direct testament to his leadership ability, when older upperclassmen see him fit enough to defer to him. That's not anecdotal, that's fact.

cunningham06
02-24-2009, 03:52 AM
What has appalled me so far in this thread is people trying to say that Stafford had a halfway decent game against Alabama. Stafford couldn't hit anyone the whole first half, and was completely ineffective. The score at halftime was 31-0. Stafford's two touchdowns came in the last 3 minutes of the game in garbage time. He had one of the most ineffective games from a quarterback I've ever seen.

Halsey
02-24-2009, 06:42 AM
What has appalled me so far in this thread is people trying to say that Stafford had a halfway decent game against Alabama. Stafford couldn't hit anyone the whole first half, and was completely ineffective. The score at halftime was 31-0. Stafford's two touchdowns came in the last 3 minutes of the game in garbage time. He had one of the most ineffective games from a quarterback I've ever seen.

Stafford was like 9-14 in the first half...

Are you one of these fans that tries to blame that loss on Stafford? I don't see how you can pin it on him when he wasn't playing on a defense that gave up 41 points and he wasn't the one who held UGA's running game to 50 yards.....11 of which were yards he rushed for.

cunningham06
02-24-2009, 02:19 PM
Stafford was like 9-14 in the first half...

Are you one of these fans that tries to blame that loss on Stafford? I don't see how you can pin it on him when he wasn't playing on a defense that gave up 41 points and he wasn't the one who held UGA's running game to 50 yards.....11 of which were yards he rushed for.

Those 11 yards he rushed for came on 6 carries meaning he was averaging less than 2 yards per carry. I don't blame the loss solely on Stafford, but he had a terrible game and even you Stafford fanboys should admit that. I love Georgia football and even I'll admit that. Receivers were open Stafford just wasn't seeing them. Stafford converted on 2/5 of 3rd down opportunities and threw an interception on our final drive of the half when we were in Alabama territory.

Did the defense play poorly? Sure, but it didn't help that Stafford couldn't sustain a long enough drive to keep the defense off the field... Anyway Georgia scored 0 points in the first half, so even if the defense were playing well, we would still be behind because of Stafford's offensive impotence that game. Knowshon was doing alright he was averaging about 4 yards a carry; he just didn't get many rushing attempts.

So no, I'm not saying Stafford lost the game single handedly, but he played like crap in the biggest game of the season (at the time).

Babylon
02-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Those 11 yards he rushed for came on 6 carries meaning he was averaging less than 2 yards per carry. I don't blame the loss solely on Stafford, but he had a terrible game and even you Stafford fanboys should admit that. I love Georgia football and even I'll admit that. Receivers were open Stafford just wasn't seeing them. Stafford converted on 2/5 of 3rd down opportunities and threw an interception on our final drive of the half when we were in Alabama territory.

Did the defense play poorly? Sure, but it didn't help that Stafford couldn't sustain a long enough drive to keep the defense off the field... Anyway Georgia scored 0 points in the first half, so even if the defense were playing well, we would still be behind because of Stafford's offensive impotence that game. Knowshon was doing alright he was averaging about 4 yards a carry; he just didn't get many rushing attempts.

So no, I'm not saying Stafford lost the game single handedly, but he played like crap in the biggest game of the season (at the time).

Were you at the game because on the tube i didnt see a lot of open receivers.Stafford didnt have time to throw, his O-line couldnt block Bama and they couldnt block the Gators either. Is he a perfect prospect? No. but QBs dont win games by themselves, ask Tom Brady against the Giants.

Halsey
02-24-2009, 02:58 PM
Those 11 yards he rushed for came on 6 carries meaning he was averaging less than 2 yards per carry.

Ok, that's all I need to read. Stafford cost UGA the game by not being an effective RB. He's a terrible QB prospect. What was I thinking. :D

georgiafan
02-24-2009, 03:01 PM
It makes it harder to see "open WR" when your running for your life behind a crappy OL. The interception he threw was a hail mary with like 10 seconds left before half with his team down 31-0. You could also point out A.J Green's fumble in the first half.