PDA

View Full Version : Moreno ?


Guarnstar23
02-21-2009, 12:36 PM
whats did he weigh in at and what was his height at the combine ?

Ho0k Em'
02-21-2009, 12:39 PM
In his interview I think he said 5'10 5/8ths 217.

Guarnstar23
02-21-2009, 12:42 PM
oh ok ...thought he was more closer to the 6"0 range ....217 is really good weight for 5"10 .... i wonder if hes going to put on a bit more weight for the pro's ...hell be in the mold of L.T

keylime_5
02-21-2009, 12:58 PM
5-10 1/8" and 217 lbs. His forty should be below 4.5 seconds. If it's below 4.4 seconds he'll be moving up draft boards.

Guarnstar23
02-21-2009, 01:03 PM
yeh he should have a strong combine ...good reps , good shuttle , and a good vert ..if hes anything over 4.4 it might hurt him a bit .

Iamcanadian
02-21-2009, 10:56 PM
He's already on the move and the top 10 isn't out of the question if he has a solid combine.

Guarnstar23
02-22-2009, 12:03 AM
25 reps on the bench!! , same as beanie ..

cunningham06
02-22-2009, 02:29 AM
5-10 1/8" and 217 lbs. His forty should be below 4.5 seconds. If it's below 4.4 seconds he'll be moving up draft boards.

I expect he will run in the mid 4.5's. Straightline speed is not Knowshon's game. He is the quickest guy on the field, but never was the fastest. Maybe he could run in the high 4.4's but I would be amazed if he broke into the 4.3's because his game speed is not nearly that fast.

That being said he will tear the NFL up nonetheless.

Go_Eagles77
02-22-2009, 09:35 AM
It's starting to look like the eagles might not have a shot at him, which sucks because he'd be perfect for our offense.

Iamcanadian
02-22-2009, 09:43 AM
I expect he will run in the mid 4.5's. Straightline speed is not Knowshon's game. He is the quickest guy on the field, but never was the fastest. Maybe he could run in the high 4.4's but I would be amazed if he broke into the 4.3's because his game speed is not nearly that fast.

That being said he will tear the NFL up nonetheless.

I think scouts and GM's are expecting him to break the 4.50 barrier otherwise top 10 isn't in the picture.

Guarnstar23
02-22-2009, 04:39 PM
did moreno do anything else besides the bench ?

Sportsfan486
02-22-2009, 04:41 PM
did moreno do anything else besides the bench ?

He ran the 40 in a blazing 4.6 seconds.

619
02-22-2009, 04:43 PM
It's starting to look like the eagles might not have a shot at him, which sucks because he'd be perfect for our offense.

You may want to reconsider that thought now. He very well could be available at #21.

Guarnstar23
02-22-2009, 04:44 PM
thats going to hurt , i would of atleast thought 4.5 range , thats going to hurt his stock , is his shuttle time atleast good , he wasnt even a top performer in the vert .

Go_Eagles77
02-22-2009, 04:48 PM
You may want to reconsider that thought now. He very well could be available at #21.
I sure hope so. Brian Westbrook ran a 4.55 and he is plenty fast enough.

619
02-22-2009, 04:51 PM
thats going to hurt , i would of atleast thought 4.5 range , thats going to hurt his stock , is his shuttle time atleast good , he wasnt even a top performer in the vert .

4.27 20-yard shuttle time, good for 8th among RBs.

keylime_5
02-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Beanie and Knowshon both ran slower than expected, I think all the runningbacks will fall because of that. The trickle down effect will hurt all the guys I expect. If you were a team would you take a runningback who ran a 4.6 at the combine in the first round (and RBs are easy to find) or would you spend that high pick on some other position? I think Beanie and Knowshon might fall into the 20s and not get picked until they are considered a really good value ala Rashard Mendenhall last year.


IMO this goes to show how overated the 40 yard dash is. Both those backs exhibit plenty of speed on the field. I think both will be pro bowlers and near the top 5 at their position in the NFL.

Scott Wright
02-22-2009, 04:56 PM
Wells was slower than expected at 4.59 but that wasn't totally unexpected considering the type of player he is. That's an average time for him.

Moreno being unable to break the 4.6 mark hurts though. He may be carrying too much weight...

cunningham06
02-22-2009, 05:57 PM
Knowshon's slow time may knock him down a few spots in the draft, but he isn't a blazing speed player anyway. He has probably the best balance and body control of any college running back I have ever seen. He rarely goes down after the first tackle, and his upper body is strong enough that high hits may knock him off balance, but he stays on his feet.

A runner who exhibited qualities of Knowshon's as a running back last season in the NFL was Steve Slaton. Granted he is quite a bit faster, he demonstrated similar agility and elusiveness.

CashmoneyDrew
02-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Moreno being unable to break the 4.6 mark hurts though. He may be carrying too much weight...

Yea. 210 seems like the ideal weight for him. That would be a loss of seven pounds. Not too hard. Plus I'm sure he'll shave off some time by his pro-day. I was a little surprised about his speed as well, but I still love Moreno and think he's a 1,000 yd. back with the ability to carry a majority of the load.

Guarnstar23
02-22-2009, 06:38 PM
I dont understand his inability to a run a low 4.5 , 4.4 forty ...with all the training on technique pre-combine , and moreno's time in the weight room .

RedVision
02-22-2009, 06:50 PM
Is Beanie Wells considered a tweener now?

Menardo75
02-22-2009, 07:00 PM
If he is in a zone system his 40 really won't make that big of a difference. What's special about him is his lateral agility, and cutback ability. It's not his straight line speed.

Babylon
02-22-2009, 07:08 PM
Wells was slower than expected at 4.59 but that wasn't totally unexpected considering the type of player he is. That's an average time for him.

Moreno being unable to break the 4.6 mark hurts though. He may be carrying too much weight...

I expected about a 4.55 for Wells but i think the track there might have been a little slow. Any better than that would have been a shock because he isnt a burner.

Menardo75
02-22-2009, 07:10 PM
I expected about a 4.55 for Wells but i think the track there might have been a little slow. Any better than that would have been a shock because he isnt a burner.

Wells didn't have very good running technique, and that's what really hurt his time.

Babylon
02-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Wells didn't have very good running technique, and that's what really hurt his time.

I didn't see him run but i think he's a mid 4.5 guy. Should be able to tweak it a bit before the draft.

TACKLE
02-22-2009, 07:18 PM
What are the chances Knoshown falls out of Round 1? Not that he's not a first round talent but there are so few teams that need a running back and obviously his 4.6 will hurt him a bit.

Menardo75
02-22-2009, 07:23 PM
What are the chances Knoshown falls out of Round 1? Not that he's not a first round talent but there are so few teams that need a running back and obviously his 4.6 will hurt him a bit.

I could see that happening to every running back honestly.

Babylon
02-22-2009, 07:24 PM
What are the chances Knoshown falls out of Round 1? Not that he's not a first round talent but there are so few teams that need a running back and obviously his 4.6 will hurt him a bit.

I've thought that all along but not because of what he ran today. 4.6 on what looked like a slow track is what i expected.

Scott Wright
02-22-2009, 07:25 PM
I'm not buying this slow track thing. Plenty of guys put up very fast times.

Heck, Darrius Heyward-Bey ran a 4.30 at 6-1 5/8 and 210 pounds!

I just don't think this running back class is very fast.

Bengals78
02-22-2009, 07:41 PM
He looked plenty fast on gameday. Probably just doesnt time well.

Scott Wright
02-22-2009, 09:11 PM
Just an interesting note...

There hasn't been a running back selected in the Top 10 this decade who didn't run in the 4.4's.

P-L
02-22-2009, 09:15 PM
I'm not buying this slow track thing. Plenty of guys put up very fast times.

Heck, Darrius Heyward-Bey ran a 4.30 at 6-1 5/8 and 210 pounds!

I just don't think this running back class is very fast.
I'm not buying it either. Four guys had official 40's of 4.38 or faster and quite a few more ripped off low 4.4's.

art vandelay
02-22-2009, 09:42 PM
I don't think this will hurt Moreno too much as long as he can run in the mid-to-low 4.5's or better at his Pro Day. I don't think anyone has ever considered Moreno a burner.

thetedginnshow
02-22-2009, 09:54 PM
Well, it still could have been a slow track. Just because some people timed in the 4.3's doesn't mean they could have done even better elsewhere, considering you're comparing them to previous years.

Sniper
02-22-2009, 10:02 PM
I sure hope so. Brian Westbrook ran a 4.55 and he is plenty fast enough.

Westbrook isn't all that fast. In terms of speed, he's just another guy. In terms of short-area quickness, COD skills, agility, and balance, he's phenomenal.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-22-2009, 10:03 PM
If he runs in the 4.5 he will be fine I think. I never expected him to rise because of a 40 time.

Dirkman
02-22-2009, 10:54 PM
Just an interesting note...

There hasn't been a running back selected in the Top 10 this decade who didn't run in the 4.4's.

uhmmm you're wrong...

Cedric Benson

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/59271.html

http://www.draft.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=51

Twinkle Toes
02-22-2009, 11:11 PM
The track was exactly the same for the RBs as it was for the WRs.

I made my comments about Wells 40 time in other posts, so Ill leave it at that except to say he had no one to blame but himself for his poor showing. Menardo75 had it exactly right and there was no excuse for that.

I didn't think Moreno would show much if any faster than the mid 4.5s and his 1st run was unofficially a 4.55 I believe. It was his 2nd run that established his official time. He seemed get a poor start and then 'ran tight' the rest of the way. But he's a lot like Crabtree in my book; he is what he is: a 'gamer'. So it's best to ignore his numbers and watch his game.

Solomon
02-23-2009, 12:26 AM
uhmmm you're wrong...

Cedric Benson

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/59271.html

http://www.draft.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=51

Haha, I was going to say that but you beat me to it, lol.

On a sidenote, the RB 40 situation kinda reminds me of 2004. Steven Jackson (the big power-back who was the consensus #1 back of the class much like Wells) at 231 lbs only ran a 4.52 at his Pro Day. Kevin Jones (the #2 back like Moreno) bulked up for the combine but ran only a 4.6. And the third ranked RB ran a 4.55 40 (Chris Perry). All of the backs ended up sliding on D-Day except for Perry.

I think you could see both Wells and Moreno slide alot because of this. And someone like Donald Brown or Lesean McCoy might be able to leapfrog into the bottom of the first round with a good workout performance.

WCH
02-23-2009, 02:50 AM
Wells didn't have very good running technique, and that's what really hurt his time.
True, IMO. Watching it on NFLN, I think I actually heard him grunting as he was running. He was clearly forcing it, and the guys on NFLN talked about it at the time. I'm looking forward to his Pro Day.

Moreno could be in for a Leeland McElroy type of draft-day fall.

Go_Eagles77
02-23-2009, 05:54 AM
Westbrook isn't all that fast. In terms of speed, he's just another guy. In terms of short-area quickness, COD skills, agility, and balance, he's phenomenal.
Yep, but he's still fast enough is what I'm saying, I don't think anyone would call him slow. Moreno is very similar to him with all that other stuff.

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 08:21 AM
uhmmm you're wrong...

Cedric Benson

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/59271.html

http://www.draft.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=51

Cedric Benson ran a 4.48 at his Pro Day.

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 08:22 AM
4.55 would have been fine for Moreno as that's what most expected (4.50-4.55).

However, 4.64 is TERRIBLE.

georgiafan
02-23-2009, 08:22 AM
I don't think his 40 time will hurt his success in the NFL, but it will his draft stock. I don't think a team will spend a mid 1st on a HB with average (or below) size and speed. Espically with few teams needed a HB and how easy they are to find.

LonghornsLegend
02-23-2009, 08:36 AM
True, IMO. Watching it on NFLN, I think I actually heard him grunting as he was running. He was clearly forcing it, and the guys on NFLN talked about it at the time. I'm looking forward to his Pro Day.


Like they say all the time the guys with track backgrounds have a tremendous advantage with stuff like the 40 yard dash. Look at DHB run, the entire time he made it look effortlessly like he wasn't even trying, smooth the entire run and he broke a 4.3, Wells still knows how to play RB and most teams recognize what he brings to the table regardless.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 09:09 AM
Every time the Skins play Philly, Brian Westbrook looks like a the fastest guy on the field. The 40 can be misleading if you don't include a player's performance on gameday.

When Ohio State played LSU, did Beanie Wells look slow?

WOuld any team in the SEC believe that Moreno wasn't the most dangerous player on the field on Saturdays?

Running a good 40 time is like scoring well on a standardized test. Just because you don't ace the SAT doesn't mean you aren't a smart, talented individual or won't be successful in life.

Running a fast 40 means exactly that. It doesn't mean you're a good football player. All it does is confirm or disprove what scouts believe they've seen on film.

Their 40 times tell me that Beanie and Knowshon don't have great long speed, that's it. Still the same backs I saw last season. They need to be more worried about avoiding injuries.

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 09:18 AM
I agree that a bad forty time doesn't mean you can't have success in the NFL.

With that said it has to make you leery of using a high first round pick on a guy.

I am pretty happy with where I have Moreno in my rankings and, at least for me, he will remain as my #2 RB and be right in that 15-25 range when all is said and done.

Flyboy
02-23-2009, 09:55 AM
Yay. Keep dropping to us Beanie!

Bengals78
02-23-2009, 10:28 AM
Cedric Benson ran a 4.48 at his Pro Day.

And Scott strikes back with a kill shot lol.

While the 40 time is terrible, it doesn't present a huge issue to me. Knowshon relied more on quickness and other skills to be great not just sheer speed.

Dirkman
02-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Cedric Benson ran a 4.48 at his Pro Day.

uhmmm no he didn't

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-prodays032305&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

MetSox17
02-23-2009, 10:41 AM
I'm honestly not looking too much into his 40 time. His start looked bad, like he wasn't completely ready for it, so i'm trusting his game film in the SEC over any 40 times. He should improve drastically in his pro-day. I still take him in the first round if i'm after 18.

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 10:45 AM
uhmmm no he didn't

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-prodays032305&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

If you think Cedric Benson went #4 overall after running a 4.60-4.65 you're crazy.

Even so if that's the best justification you can give for Knowshon Moreno I rest my case. :)

NY+Giants=NYG
02-23-2009, 10:50 AM
Man if Rutgers could keep NJ talent from leaving we'd be sick. Imagine if Moreno and Brown stayed in instate running behind our OL? Ah well, hopefully Coach S. can eventually get the guys like Moreno, Brown, and Toal, Cushing, Jarrett, BJ Raji, and so on to stay in state. But imagine if all these guys could have stayed in state.

Bob Sacamano
02-23-2009, 10:58 AM
Knowshon's slow time may knock him down a few spots in the draft, but he isn't a blazing speed player anyway. He has probably the best balance and body control of any college running back I have ever seen. He rarely goes down after the first tackle, and his upper body is strong enough that high hits may knock him off balance, but he stays on his feet.

A runner who exhibited qualities of Knowshon's as a running back last season in the NFL was Steve Slaton. Granted he is quite a bit faster, he demonstrated similar agility and elusiveness.

I'd say he actually resembles Tashard Choice

I wasn't expecting Moreno to run a blazing time, cuz I saw him get run down from behind against Michigan State, which isn't exactly a team known for defensive team speed

Halsey
02-23-2009, 11:34 AM
Knowshon's 40 time is an indicator or what you can see by watching him. Although he's excellent between the tackles, breaking tackles, making moves in traffic, catching the ball, etc he's not going to be a back that will break a lot of long runs in the NFL

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 11:35 AM
And I don't want it to seem like I am ripping Moreno because I like him and he's a heck of a player. With that said I sure don't see him as a Top 10 pick or one of the Top 10 players in this draft. He is a solid mid-to-late first round value in my mind.

LonghornsLegend
02-23-2009, 11:38 AM
I'd say he actually resembles Tashard Choice

I wasn't expecting Moreno to run a blazing time, cuz I saw him get run down from behind against Michigan State, which isn't exactly a team known for defensive team speed

Donald Brown reminds me more of Tashard Choice then anyone.

georgiafan
02-23-2009, 12:04 PM
His arms look bigger then they did in the season

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/44/69/slideshow_969441_210125_NFL_Combine_Football.jpg

Bob Sacamano
02-23-2009, 12:23 PM
Donald Brown reminds me more of Tashard Choice then anyone.

I've never seen Donald Brown play, so I'll take your word for it

Go_Eagles77
02-23-2009, 02:38 PM
He reminds me of a rich man's Correll Buckhalter, anyone else see that?

Halsey
02-23-2009, 02:51 PM
He reminds me of a rich man's Correll Buckhalter, anyone else see that?

I don't know too much about Buckhalter, but his versatility will remind you of Westbrook. He's an excellent pass catcher out of the backfield.

Dirkman
02-23-2009, 04:26 PM
If you think Cedric Benson went #4 overall after running a 4.60-4.65 you're crazy.

Even so if that's the best justification you can give for Knowshon Moreno I rest my case. :)

Scott don't ignore my proof, I've given you three verifiable and reliable links that Cedric was running in the 4.5s and 4.6s on his pro day.
You just have your word of mouth. Come on now broskie...Everyone knew Cedric Benson wasn't a burner at all, he was seen as an agile tough nimble runner with good feet and excellent production.

Shane P. Hallam
02-23-2009, 04:37 PM
Scott don't ignore my proof, I've given you three verifiable and reliable links that Cedric was running in the 4.5s and 4.6s on his pro day.
You just have your word of mouth. Come on now broskie...Everyone knew Cedric Benson wasn't a burner at all, he was seen as an agile tough nimble runner with good feet and excellent production.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3754607

Has Benson running a 4.51

And I found three other links with three other 40 times. I don't think there IS verifiable proof.

Dirkman
02-23-2009, 04:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3754607

Has Benson running a 4.51

And I found three other links with three other 40 times. I don't think there IS verifiable proof.

All reliable sources have him running between a 4.51 at best to a 4.65 at worst. So the probable time is around a 4.55, which proves my point, seeing as Scott said no running back in the last decade has been taken in the top 5 without running in the 4.4s, and that was clearly wrong.

Shane P. Hallam
02-23-2009, 04:43 PM
All reliable sources have him running between a 4.51 at best to a 4.65 at worst. So the probable time is around a 4.55, which proves my point, seeing as Scott said no running back in the last decade has been taken in the top 5 without running in the 4.4s, and that was clearly wrong.

Annnnd you are the previously banned user I thought you were. Goodbye! And to finish up, I found two more links citing the 4.48 as well, just can't post them here :)

Move along!






As for Moreno, I can't imagine he is the first RB off the board (not that he ever was). I'll be interested to see what his Pro Day says. If he slims back down and runs faster, it could definitely perk him back up a bit. But for now, I'd almost rather have Donald Brown.

Guarnstar23
02-24-2009, 12:03 AM
Yeh i seen at the combine the dude was looking thick ..his arms are huge ...maybe he sould cut weight a bit . well seee what he runs at his pro day!

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-24-2009, 10:25 AM
I'll second the point Cedric Benson ran very few times under 4.5 heading into his draft year.

He didn't run officially under 4.5 at 200 pounds coming out of HS.

Benson was supposed to have all the tools you wanted in a RB except blazing speed, and that's about right.

People seem to forget that an RB who runs a legit 4.50 with good quickness is fast enough to be a dominant player in the league, capable of breaking long runs late in games.

Except someone forgot to check under his dome to see if all the gears were clicking together.

Upstairs, he had a little too much Ricky Williams in him, a little flakey.

cunningham06
02-24-2009, 01:52 PM
People forget, Larry Fitz was a 4.5-4.6 guy, but on the field in pads he can still burn people. Knowshon is fast enough to get the job done on the field in pads, although his 40 time was not that great.