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View Full Version : Feelings so far on the 2009 Draft. (During NFL Combine)


MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 01:22 PM
Sanchez is a stud, his ability is on tape, these workouts for QBs are too over rated, I see people are pumping up Pat White who is a complete and utter non-factor when it comes to actual draft status, and tearing it up in workouts is completely different then tearing up in a game. White is actually a workout warrior at its best. Definitly should have made the move to wide out especially with this receiver class being weak to say the least.

While White is looking like the workout warrior of this years QB stock, Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman are looking like the 3 studs who are phenominal QB prospects and personally I believe will all be very good QBs in their first 3 years and then I think Sanchez and Stafford make the leap to elite status. Freeman is a stud though, and I love his size and arm strength. But Sanchez is the man. His footwork is almost flawless, his arm strength is right there with Matt Ryan and aaron Rogers, his mechanics are perfect, his velocity is outstanding and his accuracy is also very very good. One thing I wish they would do in these workouts is allow or have a drill where the QBs would roll out and throw on the run. Sanchez would dominant that aspect, we all know that. He is looking like a top 5-10 pick and the Rams would be sick not to take him, especially with Crabtree not at all being worth a top 3 pick now and Andre Smith being a huge baby that seems to be another high pick head case.

Sanchez is also the best mentally equiped QB of this class, no questions, teams love his intangibles and this nonsense of junior QBs or QBs with less then so many starts is just that, nonsense.

All receivers looked terrible. Maclin ran slower than expected, Crabtree isn't who we thought he was, and Heyward-Bey seems to be the only player living up to the size/speed ratio.

The tackles were a dissapointment especially with the best overall prospect not working out and coming in out of shape. Suprised me that Jason Smith ran the slowest time, and big dummy Lydon Murtha ran the fastest. Can you say workout warrior? Oher and Monroe along with Britton have solidified themselves as the 3 best OTs in the draft while Andre Smith has now moved to that 15-30 range and will probably be moved to ORT or OG.

Pettigrew has been a huge dissapointment with a less then stellar leaping number and 40 number. I like Shawn Nelson, but he isn't worthy of a 1rst round pick, but definitly a second rounder. Pettigrew needs to have a killer Pro-Day cause he has done nothing to show that he is the elite TE in this draft. Gresham should have come out.

Couple that with a terrible D-Line draft and a week safety draft we got our selves a pretty top heavy draft here. The best players will be picked in the top 15 while the bottom of the draft along with the rest of the rounds are going to be a complete crap shoot. Raji seems to be the only legit DT in this draft and probably the only one worthy of a first round pick, but I'm sure some second rate tackle will blow up in workouts and sleaze his way into the first.

The DE's in this class are getting worse and worse as the draft season rolls along. It is more than obvious that there isn't even a Chris Long in this draft let alone an elite once in a lifetime end like a Mario or a Julius. Shame who ever takes a chance on Ayers or even Orakpo at this time.

I did like John Grudens comments on Rey Maualuga being his favorite prospect and the best linebacker in the draft thing. I would have to say his opinion actually carries more weight then any one elses on this entire site, but I would love to hear people try to argue with an NFL coach about potential and production, but I'm sure the Rey haters will come out in droves on that one.

Darius Butler looks to be the 3rd or 4th best CB now, who would have thought that? But hey, I never really like D.J. Moore all that much anyway.

I was once very high on this draft, but I can't think of anyone after the top 20 players that will be bonified stars in the coming years, and even after the top 15 we are looking at a pretty starless crop of kids.

I've been more than dissapointed in what I've seen, the only players that, to me, even matter and will be elite talents are Rey Maualuga, Matt STafford, Mark Sanchez, Eugene Monroe, Brain Cushing, Aaron Curry, Vontae Davis, M.Jenkins, Max Unger and B.J. Raji. The rest are a who knows at best and will probably be very good starters at best.

metafour
02-22-2009, 01:28 PM
No offense, but the little I've read of your evaluations isn't very good.

Pettigrew ran as fast as expected (regardless of what he was saying he is obviously a 4.8 guy) and more importantly he looked like the best TE by far in all of the drills. Natural pass catcher, terrific blocker, he's not going to fall at all. I see people now proclaiming him as a 2nd round pick...are you crazy? He's not going Top 10 but then again he was never going to go that high, but he's still a 1st round lock.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 01:31 PM
No offense, but the little I've read of your evaluations isn't very good.

Pettigrew ran as fast as expected (regardless of what he was saying he is obviously a 4.8 guy) and more importantly he looked like the best TE by far in all of the drills. Natural pass catcher, terrific blocker, he's not going to fall at all. I see people now proclaiming him as a 2nd round pick...are you crazy? He's not going Top 10 but then again he was never going to go that high, but he's still a 1st round lock.

Yeah, his drills were solid, but nothing that stands out and says he is elite, and his athletic ability has really ticked me off about him. I liked him coming into this draft, but his workous have been less then stellar. I really wanted him to blow people away and he hasn't done that in the physical workout part. An elite TE can do both at a high level and he hasn't done that.

I have to admit, my thread abou tthis draft being as good as the 2004 or 06 was completely off base and I'm sorry that I even argued that point. Canadain you were right this draft is terrible and only has a hand full of really good players. I guess drafts like the 04 and 06 and even 07 come around every so often. Too bad, cause I really thought this draft was going to be good.

TheBuffaloBills
02-22-2009, 01:41 PM
Nothing IMO, stands out enough to make Pettigrew a top 12 pick. He is solid all around, but if you're a TE and you run a 4.85, you shouldn't be a top 12 pick. I really hope the Pettigrew to the Bills at 11 stops now. He is good all around, but he isn't worthy of going that high.

metafour
02-22-2009, 01:41 PM
Yeah, his drills were solid, but nothing that stands out and says he is elite, and his athletic ability has really ticked me off about him. I liked him coming into this draft, but his workous have been less then stellar. I really wanted him to blow people away and he hasn't done that in the physical workout part. An elite TE can do both at a high level and he hasn't done that.

Again, dont really agree at all. His receiving drills were very solid...he looked like a natural receiver. Combine his blocking? There hasn't been a TE that can catch and block as well as Pettigrew SIMULTANIOUSLY in a long time. He is a strong pass catcher and a strong blocker...in the NFL that is a TE who plays nearly every snap, there aren't a lot that are going to do that.

I dont see how you can throw Sanchez' crappy combine so far out the window ("his ability is on tape") and then completely drop Pettigrew because he didn't run fast. Carlson ran a 4.9 last year and was by far the best rookie TE. Pettigrew is probably more athletic than Carlson overall and he is a significantly better blocker. Easy first rounder.

StorminNorman
02-22-2009, 01:43 PM
I would rather have Shawn Nelson in the second round than Brandon Pettigrew in the first.

kwilk103
02-22-2009, 01:44 PM
freeman will bust

and pat white has shown throughout the year that he can throw; dont why people are surprised

Sniper
02-22-2009, 01:48 PM
Sanchez is also the best mentally equiped QB of this class, no questions, teams love his intangibles and this nonsense of junior QBs or QBs with less then so many starts is just that, nonsense.

Except, you know, when it isn't. It's mathematically proven.

Crabtree isn't who we thought he was

How so?

Pettigrew has been a huge dissapointment with a less then stellar leaping number and 40 number.

Not really. No one expected a blazing 40.

Pettigrew needs to have a killer Pro-Day cause he has done nothing to show that he is the elite TE in this draft.

Except, you know, that whole tape thing.

The best players will be picked in the top 15

HOLD THE PHONE! The best players will be picked in the top 15? We've also landed on the moon by the way.

I did like John Grudens comments on Rey Maualuga being his favorite prospect and the best linebacker in the draft thing. I would have to say his opinion actually carries more weight then any one elses on this entire site, but I would love to hear people try to argue with an NFL coach about potential and production, but I'm sure the Rey haters will come out in droves on that one.

Yeah, Jon Gruden's never been wrong. Wait, what's he even doing on NFLN?

I was once very high on this draft, but I can't think of anyone after the top 20 players that will be bonified stars in the coming years, and even after the top 15 we are looking at a pretty starless crop of kids.

I'm willing to bet that there will be more Pro Bowlers from outside the top 15. Want to wager on it? You get top 15, I get field, we chit chat when the last guy from this draft retires.

I've been more than dissapointed in what I've seen, the only players that, to me, even matter and will be elite talents are Rey Maualuga, Matt STafford, Mark Sanchez, Eugene Monroe, Brain Cushing, Aaron Curry, Vontae Davis, M.Jenkins, Max Unger and B.J. Raji. The rest are a who knows at best and will probably be very good starters at best.

That's an atrocious list of "elite" talents. Unger? Davis? Davis was benched this past year because of poor play, and he's one of your elites? That makes a whole ****load of sense.

Solomon
02-22-2009, 01:50 PM
Alright a few things:

1. I agree with you about Sanchez and White but don't see how this is based off the combine so far. Sanchez hasn't looked too impressive, and is shorter and doensn't seem quite as athletic as originally thought.

2. "The tackles were a dissapointment especially with the best overall prospect not working out and coming in out of shape"

What? Andre Smith did not come in out of shape. He came in at solid 332 lbs and alleviated many concerns over rumours that he was playing at over 360 lbs at times (saying that he honestly never been over 345).

3. "Suprised me that Jason Smith ran the slowest time, and big dummy Lydon Murtha ran the fastest. Can you say workout warrior? Oher and Monroe along with Britton have solidified themselves as the 3 best OTs in the draft while Andre Smith has now moved to that 15-30 range and will probably be moved to ORT or OG."

Again. What!!?? Jason Smith did not run the slowest time. He ran a decent 5.22 (actually .01 faster than Monroe). 40 times really aren't that big of a deal for offensive tackles. He showed up a bit heavier than expected, was the strongest tackle in the bench press and his footwork, athleticism and ability to pass protect mean that his stock certainly hasn't slid. Smith is still a top 3 OT in the draft.

4. "The DE's in this class are getting worse and worse as the draft season rolls along. It is more than obvious that there isn't even a Chris Long in this draft let alone an elite once in a lifetime end like a Mario or a Julius. Shame who ever takes a chance on Ayers or even Orakpo at this time."

Umm, none of them have had a chance to work out at the combine yet. Maybe you should see that before you say they are getting "worse as the draft season rolls along". Right now most of the top DE prospects came in weighing more than people expected (Maybin, Brown and English come to mind) so everything is looking up so far...

5. "I did like John Grudens comments on Rey Maualuga being his favorite prospect and the best linebacker in the draft thing. I would have to say his opinion actually carries more weight then any one elses on this entire site, but I would love to hear people try to argue with an NFL coach about potential and production, but I'm sure the Rey haters will come out in droves on that one."

You might not care about our opinions but I'm willing to bet that almost every other coach in the NFL has Curry as the #1 linebacker.

6. "I've been more than dissapointed in what I've seen, the only players that, to me, even matter and will be elite talents are Rey Maualuga, Matt STafford, Mark Sanchez, Eugene Monroe, Brain Cushing, Aaron Curry, Vontae Davis, M.Jenkins, Max Unger and B.J. Raji. The rest are a who knows at best and will probably be very good starters at best"

If ten players out of this draft turn out to be elite talents, that's a pretty damn good draft...

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 01:52 PM
freeman will bust

and pat white has shown throughout the year that he can throw; dont why people are surprised

I don't think Freeman will bust, I don't think he will ever be elite, but I do think he will be a legit QB that is capable of making his franchise better. In the same sense that Jason Campbell or Dante Culpepper did throught their careers.

I see Freeman as a 3000 yard, 25 TD, 10-15 INT and 55% COMP a year guy. Not elite, but definitly worthy of 1rst round attention.

But Stafford and Sanchez are looking like top 10 QBs and even top 6 or 7 QBs. I really like these two. I can't wait to see them int he coming years.

And yes Pettigrew has done nothing to solidify himself as the best TE in the draft. An elite TE prospect puts up terrific numbers in workouts coupled with his on the field production, and he hasn't done that. A less than 40 inch vert and a 4.8 40 is aweful for a guy who is supposed to be THE TE of the draft.

metafour
02-22-2009, 01:56 PM
And yes Pettigrew has done nothing to solidify himself as the best TE in the draft. An elite TE prospect puts up terrific numbers in workouts coupled with his on the field production, and he hasn't done that. A less than 40 inch vert and a 4.8 40 is aweful for a guy who is supposed to be THE TE of the draft.

Dude you are simply talking out of your ass. Pettigrew was the #1 TE back when everyone knew he didn't have elite speed...so how does him running a 4.8 (which was expected) change anything? He is still the most complete, most pro ready, and most proven TE in the draft. He did nothing to change that and I bet there are a whole ZERO scouts/GMs who were disappointed in his 40 time because that is what everyone expected from him.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:10 PM
And here they come.

Jason Smith was touted as the most athletic of the top OTs, sorry but running a slow 40 doesn't help, and what I ment to say was one of the slowest times.

Gruden was just commenting on the LB corps and I would agree with him about Maualuga, but Mayock is a God around here so we all know who the majority will defend.

Crabtree is 6'1, sorry, but he is no longer the Fitz, Boldin, Plax kind of reciever. 6'1 is only one inch taller than Holt, 6'1 is not elite height. So he is not who we thought he was. Comine that with a 4.5 or maybe even slower and his injury he is no longer a once in a lifetime receiver.

NEXT!

Pettigrew has done nothing physically to call him a top 15 pick. You think he should go to the Bills at 11? Cause I don't, and people have been considering him a top 15 pick. He is at best a late first rounder and Shawn Nelson has done just as much if not more.

The DE's are not elite. None of them warrent a top 10 nor a top 15 slot. NONE OF THEM. Thus this makes this a horrid DE class. Only Raji is a legit D-Lineman prospect the rest or a who's who of nobodys. Oh and by the way I consider Everett Brown an OLB in a 3-4, because of the rumor that he is around the 245lbs mark. Maybin as well.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!

John Gruden= NFL Coach , nuff said, go hate on somebody else. He's forgotten more football then you will ever know in your entire life ever. Not sticking up for him, but NFL coaches actually carry weight when they talk, so I listen, is it gospel? Of coarse not, but let me think, listen to a former NFL coach who built a Raider AFC championship team and won a Super Bowl with the Buccs or listen to a fake name on a forum that has "REP"? Yeah, not a hard decision to make.



NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elite talents was ment to be in in 3-4 years and I think that there are only 7 or 8 of those players in this draft, doesn't mean all 15 will be selected in the top 15, even though they should, but they won't cause teams will fall for the typical hype BS that is around every draft every year.

Oh and Andre Smith is a tool, here is a guy who has the world of the NFL in the palm of his hand. Here is a guy who has a chance to show up and destroy the compeition at the Combine on TV for the media so that the media can start the "Andre Smith is the greatest tackle ever" campaign yet he shows up out of shape, who cares what he weight is, major attitude and leaves because of his persoanl feeling towards his agent and questions about his bowl game. This guy is a head case, and worth y of being completely ignored all together. If he does great fine, oh well, made a mistake, but because of his actions and not playing live football since November and not playing in a game that would have been huge for him and his program says alot about him and his decision making. You may think its petty, but believe me teams don't, especially with the way NFL teams screen these kids now after the morons like Pacman, Mike Williams and Vernon Davis.

As for Vontae Davis, he is the an athlete that possesses all the fundamental tools to succeed at this level. Team notice that, even Mayock, the beloved hero of NFL Draft Countdown belives that. Davis s about as close as you can get to Nate Clements and I believe that he will be that.

Sniper
02-22-2009, 02:11 PM
Anquan Boldin is the exact same size as Crabtree. Facts always make for a good time.

BBIB
02-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Sanchez is a stud, his ability is on tape, these workouts for QBs are too over rated, I see people are pumping up Pat White who is a complete and utter non-factor when it comes to actual draft status, and tearing it up in workouts is completely different then tearing up in a game. White is actually a workout warrior at its best. Definitly should have made the move to wide out especially with this receiver class being weak to say the least.

While White is looking like the workout warrior of this years QB stock, Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman are looking like the 3 studs who are phenominal QB prospects and personally I believe will all be very good QBs in their first 3 years and then I think Sanchez and Stafford make the leap to elite status..


I can't watch Pat White until they show the replay on NFL Network and hopefully can watch it online.

But for people like you, and unfortunately probably NFL scouts, he is in a lose lose situation.

If he looks poor, it's proof that he can't play QB.

If he looks great, he's deemed a workout warrior.

Either way he can't win. He's pigeon holed in a WR spot.

It's absolutely frustrating the guy may not get a shot because of that type of bias meanwhile while sucky QBs get a chance every single year.

Sniper
02-22-2009, 02:13 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4512

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/michael-crabtree?id=71269

6'1", 215 for both Boldin and Crabtree.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Dude you are simply talking out of your ass. Pettigrew was the #1 TE back when everyone knew he didn't have elite speed...so how does him running a 4.8 (which was expected) change anything? He is still the most complete, most pro ready, and most proven TE in the draft. He did nothing to change that and I bet there are a whole ZERO scouts/GMs who were disappointed in his 40 time because that is what everyone expected from him.

Dude, go homer for someone else. Pettigrew is a late 1rst rounder, not a mid 1rst or top 15 pick. He is a late first early second. HE IS NOT ELITE, people have been trying to make him elite for the last year now and he is NOOOOOT.

Elite talents are Kellen Winslow and Tony Gonzalez. Vernon Davis was a workout warrior he doesn't count. Winslow and Gonzalez both combined production with athletic abiltiy, which makes them elite. Pettigrew is a solid football player but he will never be a TG, AG, Wins or Witten. At best, at absolute best he is Heath Miller and that is not worth a top 15 pick.

kwilk103
02-22-2009, 02:16 PM
I can't watch Pat White until they show the replay on NFL Network and hopefully can watch it online.

But for people like you, and unfortunately probably NFL scouts, he is in a lose lose situation.

If he looks poor, it's proof that he can't play QB.

If he looks great, he's deemed a workout warrior.

Either way he can't win. He's pigeon holed in a WR spot.

It's absolutely frustrating the guy may not get a shot because of that type of bias meanwhile while sucky QBs get a chance every single year.

he looked good; better than sanchez; didnt see the other group, but he was the best in his group

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:17 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4512

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/michael-crabtree?id=71269

6'1", 215 for both Boldin and Crabtree.

Yeah, thought Boldin was 6'2, oh well, Crabtree still isn't who we thought he was.

I mean,Crabtree was though of as a Fitzy or even Calvin or even the most laughable Andre Johnson, I mean how laughable is that?

PossibleCabbage
02-22-2009, 02:18 PM
You might not care about our opinions but I'm willing to bet that almost every other coach in the NFL has Curry as the #1 linebacker.

Not to nitpick or anything, but I think you mean "every coach in the NFL" since Gruden is no longer employed by an NFL team.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:18 PM
Oh no here comes the Rep police, no wonder there are some people here that don't care about what you guys think. I guess saying what everyone wants to hear is still the thing to do.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the "Your Dumb" comment SNIPER, make you feel good to insult someone who doesn't have your opinion?

Michigan
02-22-2009, 02:23 PM
Thanks for the "Your Dumb" comment SNIPER, make you feel good to insult someone who doesn't have your opinion?

There's a "private message" feature at the top right of your screen. Please use it.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 02:24 PM
There's a "private message" feature at the top right of your screen. Please use it.

Why didn't you use it?

Solomon
02-22-2009, 02:26 PM
Not to nitpick or anything, but I think you mean "every coach in the NFL" since Gruden is no longer employed by an NFL team.

haha, right you are.

PossibleCabbage
02-22-2009, 02:27 PM
I honestly think that Pat White really improved his stock in the combine, as he's been doing all year. Nobody legitimately thinks that he's going to come in as a rookie and be an effective starter at QB, but you can make a case for nobody this year coming in as a rookie and being an effective starter at QB. But if you draft Pat White you get a 3rd QB/Wildcat QB/RB/WR/Punt Returner slash-type player, and with 2-3 years under his belt to learn the QB position at the NFL level, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody gives him a shot at starter a la Kordell Stewart, and Pat White will probably be better than Kordell Stewart.

Since we're looking at Sanchez and Stafford as "top 10 picks", neither of them really looks good by that metric. But in looking at Pat White as "an athlete, and a weapon, and maybe this guy can play QB on sundays" he looks great.

Also, isn't it a little bit silly to be talking up Maualuga now? It's not as though the LBs have worked out yet. The only thing he would have done so far this weekend to improve his stock was "an interview" and "a physical" and we're not privy to the results of either (neither is Gruden).

Hokie_Pokie08
02-22-2009, 02:51 PM
And here they come.
John Gruden= NFL Coach , nuff said, go hate on somebody else. He's forgotten more football then you will ever know in your entire life ever. Not sticking up for him, but NFL coaches actually carry weight when they talk, so I listen, is it gospel? Of coarse not, but let me think, listen to a former NFL coach who built a Raider AFC championship team and won a Super Bowl with the Buccs or listen to a fake name on a forum that has "REP"? Yeah, not a hard decision to make.



NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What are your thoughts on Matt Millen then? Does his evaluation talents carry a ton of weight? Vinny Cerrato?

Just because someone is in a position of power in an organization it does not make them an authority and you would be naive to grovel at their every word.

bucs-buffs-avs
02-22-2009, 03:01 PM
I like Mauluga too, but pay Gruden no mind. The guy's talent evaluation is an absolute joke.

My personal Gruden draft day favorite was when he reached for a projected 2nd round WR, passing on a falling RB who was expected to be taken much higher than the the Bucs position (16).

Those players are Michael Clayton and Steven Jackson.

Or when he risked going into the season with a rookie 6th round pick from Toledo who was barely even 6 foot as his #2 QB.

Then there was the time he fell in love with a return specialist and traded out of his second round pick to take him when he could have stayed put and drafted Ray Rice, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne or Limas Sweed.

By the way, that return specialist, Dexter Jackson, was benched for a Undrafted FA midway through the season afte averaging 4 yards per punt return. The UFA was Clifton Smith, who ended up in the Pro Bowl. So blocking or surrounding talent was not an issue in any way.

Babylon
02-22-2009, 03:11 PM
So far i think the juniors that went back (Taylor Mays, Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, Mark Herzlich) are making for an average group here at best. A few observations:

The O-line group seems to have taken a bit of a hit. Andre Smith not helping his cause as is Michael Oher testing weaker and slower than expected.Alex Mack has been hurt, waiting on Duke Robinson.

The Qb class is weak, Sanchez can play but didnt overwhelm, Stafford choosing not to throw is weak although it wont hurt his status. Don't see much depth beyond that to rave about.

The TE group looks good but Pettigrew did nothing really to advance his stock, he's solid but past character issues and less than expected combine numbers would push him into round 2 i think. Good depth though with Cook, Casey and the kid from So. Miss (name escapes me)

The receivers i think are good, hard to get a real feel with Crabtree hurt but others like Britt, Bey and Nicks are all solid. Maclin and Harvin are solid 1st rounders because of their speed and special teams potential.

Kicker is in a nutshell David Buehler, the guy has a strong leg and at 225lbs strong bench and 4.55 speed he'll be a force on coverage.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 03:18 PM
So far i think the juniors that went back (Taylor Mays, Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, Mark Herzlich) are making for an average group here at best. A few observations:

The O-line group seems to have taken a bit of a hit. Andre Smith not helping his cause as is Michael Oher testing weaker and slower than expected.Alex Mack has been hurt, waiting on Duke Robinson.

The Qb class is weak, Sanchez can play but didnt overwhelm, Stafford choosing not to throw is weak although it wont hurt his status. Don't see much depth beyond that to rave about.

The TE group looks good but Pettigrew did nothing really to advance his stock, he's solid but past character issues and less than expected combine numbers would push him into round 2 i think. Good depth though with Cook, Casey and the kid from So. Miss (name escapes me)

The receivers i think are good, hard to get a real feel with Crabtree hurt but others like Britt, Bey and Nicks are all solid. Maclin and Harvin are solid 1st rounders because of their speed and special teams potential.

Kicker is in a nutshell David Buehler, the guy has a strong leg and at 225lbs strong bench and 4.55 speed he'll be a force on coverage.

Tanks Babylon, as least someone here agrees with my perception although you said it better than I did. I'm just pissed because I was so hyped about these guys. I was the one screamiong from the rafters about how good they all were and new they were all a freaking mirage.

As for Gruden< I think he is speaking from a tape point of view and how he likes a particular player. He was right about drafting Joseph, Trueblood, Ruud, and even Cadillac eventhough he couldnb't control him getting hurt.

Michael Clayton was a huge bust, but he did show that he has the ability, remember his rookie year. So Gruden actually made the right choice, not his fault Clayton was a moron.

MarioPalmer
02-22-2009, 03:21 PM
What are your thoughts on Matt Millen then? Does his evaluation talents carry a ton of weight? Vinny Cerrato?

Just because someone is in a position of power in an organization it does not make them an authority and you would be naive to grovel at their every word.

Not going by their every word, I even said its not gospel, but I do listen and take what they have to say into consideration more than some fan, which every here but Scott Wright is. We are fans, and that is it, these guys (GMs, coaches, scouts and players) have been there, know the process, know what it takes. So when they talk I listen, doesn't mean that I will completely agree but I do take what they say into consideration, which I think is the right thing to do.

Thats like me sitting at home on a Sunday trying to question what a coach did on a specific situation. How the hell would I know what to do in that situation? Would I have done anything different under the circumstances? Thats like me going into a operating room with a surgoen and questioning their abilities and telling them that I know more because I watch ER or House. Its just laughable.

PossumBoy9
02-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Oher and Monroe along with Britton have solidified themselves as the 3 best OTs in the draft

Huh? Did Jason Smith accept a Rhodes scholarship all of the sudden?

katnip
02-22-2009, 03:35 PM
All receivers looked terrible. Maclin ran slower than expected, Crabtree isn't who we thought he was, and Heyward-Bey seems to be the only player living up to the size/speed ratio.

C'mon

Have you ever seen Maclin in pads in a game... Kid can play on Sunday's.

TitleTown088
02-22-2009, 03:37 PM
HOLD THE PHONE! The best players will be picked in the top 15? We've also landed on the moon by the way.



Sorry, but I had to.
-f_DPrSEOEo

Carry on.

RyanBraun8
02-22-2009, 03:50 PM
Yeah, thought Boldin was 6'2, oh well, Crabtree still isn't who we thought he was.

I mean,Crabtree was though of as a Fitzy or even Calvin or even the most laughable Andre Johnson, I mean how laughable is that?


lol I could comment on almost all the dumb things you have stated but this, wow.... Crabtree isn't what we thought? He is laughable Andre Johnson? All this because he is 2 inches shorter than he was listed? I dont give one s*** if he is only 6'1, not one! Have you ever just once watched this guy play? He is still the same damn player that I thought he was. Height isn't that big of a deal. Just because Fritzgerald, Johnson and Calvin are all tall good doesn't mean you have to be 6'3 to be elite. OMG Chad Johnson is 6'1 he is no longer what I thought he was. I thought he was a big playmaking wide reciever but not anymore, to short! Boldin can catch 100 balls and go over 1,000 yards every year, but he isn't what I thought he was to short.

Point is, doesn't matter if he is 6'1 5/8 or w/e it is, he has great hands, runs great routes, and has game speed and playmaking ability. Over reading into height is just dumb.

toonsterwu
02-22-2009, 03:50 PM
I don't think the combines have changed my perceptions on this draft. Every year, there's talent to be found and good players are in every class, but on a whole, I think this is one of the weaker value classes in recent memory, and I'm not sure it's better than say, 2005, which most thought of as one of the weaker value classes prior to the draft.

I just don't see all that much to get excited about. Granted, when speaking of values, we typically are looking at the top, but even a quick scan of the 2nd tier and 3rd tier talents in this draft (for those that don't remember, I break them down into numerous tiers, first tier is the top of the board, early first, while 2nd tier usually is somewhere from mid-late first, 3rd tier is usually somewhere late first-2nd ... slightly different for each class).

Let's look at each position -

QB - My personal favorite is Josh Freeman. My top QB is Matt Stafford. That said, there isn't that elite, top 5 talent, sans position inflation. I like Stafford a lot, but I think the questions on him are valid. Yes, his supporting cast sucked, but there were moments where you just said, "WTF?" and it wasn't due to the gunslinger attitude. Sanchez comes with a lot of risk, but for a patient team, he might pan out. But in many other years, I'd put him as a late first due to good but not great tools and a lot of questions, whereas he's getting bumped up quite high in this draft. Much as I like Freeman, I know he's raw, I know he's got mechanical issues. And yet, particularly if Detroit passes on QB at 1, Freeman could make it into the first, and perhaps mid first range.

RB - The 40 times really suck for this class. Ouch ... granted, 40's are overrated, but ouch. Beanie Wells will be a nice big back, who plays faster than he times, but value wise, add in the medical questions, and ouch. Moreno is a back who I love his "feel", but will he dominate? I also think he may be a better back at a lower weight. I'm starting to lean to McCoy as the top back, although Donald Brown will push real strong.

WR - A lot of top 40 times, but is Crabtree Larry Fitzgerald, or is he more Michael Clayton/Dwayne Bowe value? I don't think you can definitively claim one or the other. Maclin, like him, and I think scouts love him more than fans and draftniks do, but he's raw. Heyward Bey is like Devin Thomas - all the tools, but can he put it together? It wasn't just the QB issues that dogged DHB. Harvin is ... ?

OT - The way things are shaping up, there's two guys you feel pretty confident about at LT in this draft in J. Smith and Monroe, and they may be the only top 10 picks. You draft for pass pro, and those two haveit. After that, big questions on Oher/A. Smith/Britton. I think, in some systems, they could fit as LT's, but in others, not sure. Oher might be getting overly nitpicked. William Beatty might crack the first, and in other years, I'm not sure he's worth it that high as he's just ... weak. He's a guy that, in other years, I'd place him in the 3rd round and hope that he gets stronger as he matures, but would go in knowing that he needs a couple years to develop.

Don't have the time to stick around, but I don't love the value of this draft, and the combine hasn't changed my perceptions on much, although I do think Britt is a solid first right now, and I wonder if he may challenge in the mid-first.

PossibleCabbage
02-22-2009, 03:52 PM
As for Gruden< I think he is speaking from a tape point of view and how he likes a particular player. He was right about drafting Joseph, Trueblood, Ruud, and even Cadillac eventhough he couldnb't control him getting hurt.

The thing about Gruden though is you can't just take one personnel analyst at his word, since you can always find a guy who loves a player and you can always find a guy who hates a player. For everybody who thinks Maualuga is the next Ray Lewis, you can find a guy who thinks he's maxed out as a 2-down LB in the NFL; he's a slightly bigger Abdul Hodge. Which of these guys is right? Maybe neither, we have no way of knowing. But "Hey look guys, here's some guy who agrees with me!" isn't a very convincing argument, since it's not very hard to find someone who doesn't.

If you had actually seen something he did at the combine that impressed you, that would be a reasonable point to make. But "a former NFL employee has opinions that correspond to mine" isn't really worth discussing.

RyanBraun8
02-22-2009, 04:08 PM
Also you read way, way, way to much into combine numbers, its actually real sad. I didn't know a linemans 40 time means how athletic he really is (doesn't mean crap look at his 10 yard and 5-10-5 numbers). I forgot that if a WR doesnt run a 4.35 he wont make it in the NFL (no pro-bowl receiver this past season ran a sub 4.40 at the combine) So really, a tight end cant be a top 15 pick because he didn't show top end speed in the 40? (Really? Bubba Franks was a top 15 pick and made what 3 or 4 pro-bowls and he was not fast at all)

I do agree about the Gruden thing because he actually was a real good coach and people should care about his opinion because GUESS WHAT? He does know more than everyone of us when it comes to what NFL teams are looking for and all that..... unless one of you were a GM or a head coach then okay you are an exception.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-22-2009, 04:34 PM
Rey Rey will run a 4.8 or slower, bank it.

OT William Beatty repped 27 times on the bench, a more than solid number. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick.

MarioPalmer, you're taking the combine results way too seriously. 80% of player evaluation takes place on film.

And we'll see next season if you still think TE Vernon Davis is a workout warrior. Alex Smith is a bum and Shaun Hill at least will look to pass to the TE.

ThePudge
02-22-2009, 04:54 PM
And yes Pettigrew has done nothing to solidify himself as the best TE in the draft. An elite TE prospect puts up terrific numbers in workouts coupled with his on the field production, and he hasn't done that. A less than 40 inch vert and a 4.8 40 is aweful for a guy who is supposed to be THE TE of the draft.

Pettigrew is the best Tight End in this class because he plays a complete game. He is a willing and powerful blocker and displays the ability to run good routes, while at the same time displaying soft hands. You have to watch Pettigrew play with pads on rather than watch the Combine and assume that more athletic = better football player.

Pettigrew is the most complete TE prospect in years. Yes, more complete than Vernon Davis. Yes, more complete than Kellen Winslow. That is because he both blocks and catch's the ball at a high level, whereas the two noted above were not very good blockers (still aren't.) His game is not flashy and he is not going to be a big threat working from the slot, but he is a football player. Am I telling you he's a Top 10-15 value? No. He will not fit in every offense (would not be at his best in the slot) and has some character concerns. Still, it is safe to say he is seen as the best TE in the draft by a large majority of pro scouts and NFL coaches because of the way he plays on Saturdays. Personally I see Pettigrew as a Mid-Late first round pick in the 15-25 range value wise.

As for Tight End's with a 40 inch vertical, that is almost unheard of. Jared Cook has a 41 inch vert, yet Pettigrew and your boy Shawn Nelson have solid but unspectacular 33.0" verts. It's not that big a deal and it will not make or break either any of the above as a prospect.

phlysac
02-22-2009, 05:05 PM
Alex Smith is a bum and Shaun Hill at least will look to pass to the TE.

Not on topic but Vernon Davis had his 2 better seasons with Alex Smith as QB, not Shaun Hill.

Vernon Davis with Alex Smith - 42 Catches in 13 Games - 4 TDs
Vernon Davis with Shaun Hill - 28 Catches in 11 Games - 4 TDs

Regardless, he will be considered a "workout warrior" until his stats increase. Unfortunately I don't feel his lack of production has as much to do with him as it has with him being used poorly.

lordquas
02-22-2009, 05:08 PM
I think Brandon Pettigrew deserves to be drafted anywhere in the 1st round.
When I think about it, Pettigrew is definitely the same type of prospect as Kellen Winslow was when he came out. and he got drafted with the 6th pick! It's all about team needs and how badly tightend is a concern for teams.
11th to the Bills?
24th to the Falcons?
I'm sure both teams are really going to consider drafting this guy.
Pettigrews bigger and just as athletic as Kellen Winslow.
He can block better too!

Definitley an elite tightend who has everything it takes to be a dominate NFL player.

keylime_5
02-22-2009, 05:08 PM
Pettigrew is not a workout guy. He is an awesome football player and a complete tight end in the mold of Jason Witten. He is gonna be one of the top tight ends in the league and is a guaranteed top 25 pick.

DaBear89
02-22-2009, 06:33 PM
for all this talk about Crabtree not being who we thought he was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_N1OjGhIFc&feature=related

Babylon
02-22-2009, 07:02 PM
I don't think the combines have changed my perceptions on this draft. Every year, there's talent to be found and good players are in every class, but on a whole, I think this is one of the weaker value classes in recent memory, and I'm not sure it's better than say, 2005, which most thought of as one of the weaker value classes prior to the draft.

I just don't see all that much to get excited about. Granted, when speaking of values, we typically are looking at the top, but even a quick scan of the 2nd tier and 3rd tier talents in this draft (for those that don't remember, I break them down into numerous tiers, first tier is the top of the board, early first, while 2nd tier usually is somewhere from mid-late first, 3rd tier is usually somewhere late first-2nd ... slightly different for each class).

Let's look at each position -

QB - My personal favorite is Josh Freeman. My top QB is Matt Stafford. That said, there isn't that elite, top 5 talent, sans position inflation. I like Stafford a lot, but I think the questions on him are valid. Yes, his supporting cast sucked, but there were moments where you just said, "WTF?" and it wasn't due to the gunslinger attitude. Sanchez comes with a lot of risk, but for a patient team, he might pan out. But in many other years, I'd put him as a late first due to good but not great tools and a lot of questions, whereas he's getting bumped up quite high in this draft. Much as I like Freeman, I know he's raw, I know he's got mechanical issues. And yet, particularly if Detroit passes on QB at 1, Freeman could make it into the first, and perhaps mid first range.

RB - The 40 times really suck for this class. Ouch ... granted, 40's are overrated, but ouch. Beanie Wells will be a nice big back, who plays faster than he times, but value wise, add in the medical questions, and ouch. Moreno is a back who I love his "feel", but will he dominate? I also think he may be a better back at a lower weight. I'm starting to lean to McCoy as the top back, although Donald Brown will push real strong.

WR - A lot of top 40 times, but is Crabtree Larry Fitzgerald, or is he more Michael Clayton/Dwayne Bowe value? I don't think you can definitively claim one or the other. Maclin, like him, and I think scouts love him more than fans and draftniks do, but he's raw. Heyward Bey is like Devin Thomas - all the tools, but can he put it together? It wasn't just the QB issues that dogged DHB. Harvin is ... ?

OT - The way things are shaping up, there's two guys you feel pretty confident about at LT in this draft in J. Smith and Monroe, and they may be the only top 10 picks. You draft for pass pro, and those two haveit. After that, big questions on Oher/A. Smith/Britton. I think, in some systems, they could fit as LT's, but in others, not sure. Oher might be getting overly nitpicked. William Beatty might crack the first, and in other years, I'm not sure he's worth it that high as he's just ... weak. He's a guy that, in other years, I'd place him in the 3rd round and hope that he gets stronger as he matures, but would go in knowing that he needs a couple years to develop.

Don't have the time to stick around, but I don't love the value of this draft, and the combine hasn't changed my perceptions on much, although I do think Britt is a solid first right now, and I wonder if he may challenge in the mid-first.

I have to reign in my enthusiasm for Stafford and not use John Elway comparisons but i think he's on a par with Jay Cutler. Would anyone not want to redo the 2006 draft?

Menardo75
02-22-2009, 07:09 PM
Rey Rey will run a 4.8 or slower, bank it.

OT William Beatty repped 27 times on the bench, a more than solid number. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick.

MarioPalmer, you're taking the combine results way too seriously. 80% of player evaluation takes place on film.

And we'll see next season if you still think TE Vernon Davis is a workout warrior. Alex Smith is a bum and Shaun Hill at least will look to pass to the TE.

HAHA bet you everything I own he runs mid 4.5 maybe lower. Rey is not slow watch his INT return against Ohio State.

Pettigrew should be one of the best TE's in the NFL. He is probably one of the most complete TE's to come out in a while.

MarioPalmer- You are letting the combine influence your decision way too much. Number help, but what's most important is how good of a football player they are.

Sniper
02-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Thanks for the "Your Dumb" comment SNIPER, make you feel good to insult someone who doesn't have your opinion?

It wasn't YOUR dumb. It was You're dumb. I actually have the mental capacity to formulate proper grammatical sentences, unlike yourself. How am I to take you seriously when you don't even know the difference between your/you're? It's not because you don't share my opinion. It's because the things you said made no sense.

Wrathman
02-22-2009, 07:20 PM
Pat White was the best QB I saw at the combine this year. Don't let one day of drills outweigh a season of performance and the realities of the NFL.

Menardo75
02-22-2009, 07:40 PM
Also 40 times don't mean **** for lineman. Jason Smith is still one of the best athletes if not the best at tackle.

PossibleCabbage
02-22-2009, 07:48 PM
HAHA bet you everything I own he runs mid 4.5 maybe lower. Rey is not slow watch his INT return against Ohio State.

So wait, you're telling me that Maualuga is as fast as any RB in this draft? (Best RB time was 4.45, only four players under 4.5). I've seen him play, he's not that fast...

MidwayMonster31
02-22-2009, 07:54 PM
I would probably estimate 4.6 for Rey. I don't think that straight-line speed will be a problem for him.

thenewfeature06
02-22-2009, 07:55 PM
ill go 4.65-4.7

ThePudge
02-22-2009, 07:59 PM
I think Maualuga's speed "problems" have been overblown a bit. 4.8-4.9 is very harsh, 4.5 is very generous. I expect something along the lines of 4.68-4.73. That would be solid for Rey and would prove a couple doubters wrong. Still, I have watched Rey and watched Curry and must agree with Mayock and almost every draft "guru" in saying I consider Curry the superior prospect.

cajuncorey
02-22-2009, 08:00 PM
NFL combine is one of the most blown out of porportion events in professional sports... if the combine means how good a player is gonna be then why isnt vernon gholston the best player in the league?

ThePudge
02-22-2009, 08:03 PM
NFL combine is one of the most blown out of porportion events in professional sports... if the combine means how good a player is gonna be then why isnt vernon gholston the best player in the league?

Perhaps because he's been in the league for one season, playing out of position at Outside Linebacker? People are extremely hard on Gholston here after only one season.

B-Dawk
02-22-2009, 08:06 PM
i liken pettigrew to heath miller, and feel he will be drafted and graded out similarly

cajuncorey
02-22-2009, 08:11 PM
Perhaps because he's been in the league for one season, playing out of position at Outside Linebacker? People are extremely hard on Gholston here after only one season.

lemme throw some other names out there then... vernon davis, manny lawson, darren mcfadden, tye hill, matt jones, fabian washington, . all these guys will terrific combines

Go_Eagles77
02-22-2009, 08:22 PM
i liken pettigrew to heath miller, and feel he will be drafted and graded out similarly
I actually like that comparison a lot.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-22-2009, 08:37 PM
Menardo75, Rey Rey ran a 4.75 at USC over the summer, the exact same time as Brian Cushing.

USC times their players in the 40 during spring ball workouts. He's still a force because of his instincts, but his speed is average for a MLB.

He's no Patrick Willis, ( 4.4 speed) nor ever will be.

ThePudge
02-22-2009, 09:09 PM
lemme throw some other names out there then... vernon davis, manny lawson, darren mcfadden, tye hill, matt jones, fabian washington, . all these guys will terrific combines

Of course the Combine sometimes inflates one's draft stock past what it should be because of sheer athleticism. You are right on that point, sometimes those Combine risers have become elite NFL player, so it's not an exact science either way. I wasn't disagreeing though necessarily with your point, but rather your choice of Vernon Gholston who has only one year of coaching at LB under his belt. Also, I would not throw Darren McFadden on that list either, far too early.

Babylon
02-22-2009, 09:14 PM
Menardo75, Rey Rey ran a 4.75 at USC over the summer, the exact same time as Brian Cushing.

USC times their players in the 40 during spring ball workouts. He's still a force because of his instincts, but his speed is average for a MLB.

He's no Patrick Willis, ( 4.4 speed) nor ever will be.

Dont ever remember seeing Cushing run higher than the 4.6s. which he should better tomorrow.

BlueGoldGreen
02-22-2009, 10:39 PM
OP is terrible at talent evaluation

lordquas
02-22-2009, 10:44 PM
I could see Rey Maualuga running a 4.6

whos a better prospect Rey Maualuga or EJ Henderson when he came out?

cant hate on my boy EJ
so i say him

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 12:32 PM
On NFL Network live, Rey just ran a 4.83 (unofficial) in the 40, then pulled his hamstring.
Like I said in an earlier post, Maualuga plays fast because of his instincts, but he's a mediocre athlete.

How does a slow a@@ MLB pull a hammy?

Another guy who ran slow, James Laurinaitis, Ohio State. High 4.8.

IF these guys didn't play at their respective teams, they'd be 3rd rounders.

Hype is a helluva thing.

Brian Cushing was flying, low 4.6. And Clay Matthews ran a mid 4.5.

BTW, Menardo75, I'll be expecting " everything you own" shipped to me in a U-Haul to be delivered to my home address to be provided later.
LOL

LonghornsLegend
02-23-2009, 12:35 PM
On NFL Network live, Rey just ran a 4.83 (unofficial) in the 40, then pulled his hamstring.
Like I said in an earlier post, Maualuga plays fast because of his instincts, but he's a mediocre athlete.

How does a slow a@@ MLB pull a hammy?

Another guy who ran slow, James Laurinaitis, Ohio State. High 4.8.

IF these guys didn't play at their respective teams, they'd be 3rd rounders.

Hype is a helluva thing.

Brian Cushing was flying, low 4.6. And Clay Matthews ran a mid 4.5.

Yep, because everyone knows 40 yard dashes determine the player, if you don't run fast you won't amount to crap at the next level. /sarcasm

nyqua
02-23-2009, 12:55 PM
40 yard dash=MOST IMPORTANT DRILL IN HISTORY OF NFL

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2009, 01:01 PM
Yep, because everyone knows 40 yard dashes determine the player, if you don't run fast you won't amount to crap at the next level. /sarcasm

Well, certainly there are slow players that do well, but the unofficial 4.83 certainly is a splash of cold water in the face for the people who had Maualuga running a "Mid-4.5 or lower."

The conspiracy inclined could potentially argue that some folks may hold the "hammy tweak" as a "get out of combine free" card, in case they're just dissatisfied and want to give it another go on their pro day, but some guys certainly do actually get hurt.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 01:28 PM
The 40 time ironically is more important for defensive players, especially LBs in general.

LBs don't have the luxury of knowing the play beforehand, and need to have the instincts/make-up speed to react to the play being run by the offense and make the tackle.

That's why a receiver who runs a 4.5 or 4.6, ( Jerry Rice) can still be successful in the pros, but if the DB covering him runs the same time, he's going to be hard pressed to cover any WR deep.
Laurinaitis' time is a bit of a shock, although I never thought he was all-world anyway.

Consider that Urlacher ran a 4.49 when he came out of college and look at the plays he routinely makes and the ground he's able to cover.

Laurinaitis looks like a strictly in the box type MLB.

Saints-Tigers
02-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Somehow I think if Gruden would have ripped into Maualuga, you wouldn't have been taking his word as gospel.

Babylon
02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
Well, certainly there are slow players that do well, but the unofficial 4.83 certainly is a splash of cold water in the face for the people who had Maualuga running a "Mid-4.5 or lower."

The conspiracy inclined could potentially argue that some folks may hold the "hammy tweak" as a "get out of combine free" card, in case they're just dissatisfied and want to give it another go on their pro day, but some guys certainly do actually get hurt.


Rey supposedly has had a hamstring issue for a few weeks so the 4.83 probably should be taken in context. I think he's always been a mid 4.7 guy. He isnt as fluid as his SC teammates so i think that could hurt him a little.

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
The thing that disappoints me most about Maualuga is not that he ran a bad 40, it's that he showed up ran a disappointing 40 and that was it for the day. Everybody who has seen him play knows he's adequately, but not especially, fast. I had (and still have) concerns about his change of direction ability and fluidity (and by extension range). He's an instinctive player, but when he guesses wrong (since NFL teams are little better at misdirection than college teams), you need him to get back in position quickly.

Well, I guess we'll wait for USC's pro day.

Rey supposedly has had a hamstring issue for a few weeks so the 4.83 probably should be taken in context.

Just curious, can anybody find an account of him complaining about his hammy that was published before the combine? I'm not sure whether to believe him or not, but if there is such an account then I'm totally going to cut him some slack. I'm sure actual NFL personnel people wouldn't find this an unreasonable level of due diligence.

Babylon
02-23-2009, 01:43 PM
The thing that disappoints me most about Maualuga is not that he ran a bad 40, it's that he showed up ran a disappointing 40 and that was it for the day. Everybody who has seen him play knows he's adequately, but not especially, fast. I had (and still have) concerns about his change of direction ability and fluidity (and by extension range). He's an instinctive player, but when he guesses wrong (since NFL teams are little better at misdirection than college teams), you need him to get back in position quickly.

Well, I guess we'll wait for USC's pro day.

Right now he is behind Curry, Cushing and Matthews in my mind but probably still the #1 inside guy. Question is how much do you reach for position.

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 01:47 PM
Brian Cushing was flying, low 4.6. And Clay Matthews ran a mid 4.5.



Brian Cushing 4.74 and Clay Matthews 4.67. Those are the official times.

Babylon
02-23-2009, 01:50 PM
The thing that disappoints me most about Maualuga is not that he ran a bad 40, it's that he showed up ran a disappointing 40 and that was it for the day. Everybody who has seen him play knows he's adequately, but not especially, fast. I had (and still have) concerns about his change of direction ability and fluidity (and by extension range). He's an instinctive player, but when he guesses wrong (since NFL teams are little better at misdirection than college teams), you need him to get back in position quickly.

Well, I guess we'll wait for USC's pro day.



Just curious, can anybody find an account of him complaining about his hammy that was published before the combine? I'm not sure whether to believe him or not, but if there is such an account then I'm totally going to cut him some slack. I'm sure actual NFL personnel people wouldn't find this an unreasonable level of due diligence.

I have no idea if he had a problem or pulled this one out of his back pocket. Like i've said before he has some things that knock him down a bit but he has such a huge rep that it might not matter.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't know they calculate official times, but I saw the first forty yard dashes for both, and that's where my numbers came from. Both those dudes were flying for big (6'3, 6'4) LBs, and Curry was the only other guy that size who had that kind of speed.

You keep the average forty yard dash, I'll take the fastest one clocked.

I'm not saying the 40 is the end all, be all for any football player, I just had a bet with someone on this forum that Rey wouldn't run fast, so now I'm gonna pat myself on the back!!

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 02:01 PM
I don't know they calculate official times, but I saw the first forty yard dashes for both, and that's where my numbers came from. Both those dudes were flying for big (6'3, 6'4) LBs, and Curry was the only other guy that size who had that kind of speed.

You keep the average forty yard dash, I'll take the fastest one clocked.

I'm not saying the 40 is the end all, be all for any football player, I just had a bet with someone on this forum that Rey wouldn't run fast, so now I'm gonna pat myself on the back!!

That is the fastest one clocked yet it is clocked by laser rather than hand/electronically, making it official.

America
02-23-2009, 02:08 PM
Jasper Brinkley ran a 4.72 - top 10 LB time. Good news for him after that bad ACL tear a few years ago.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 02:16 PM
Man the official Combine time calculations suck!!
You know what Brinkley's first time in the 40 was? 4.65.

Also I think he's over 255 pounds. If he's healthy, he's the first MLB off the board and likely goes in the 1st round.

bored of education
02-23-2009, 02:18 PM
Man the official Combine time calculations suck!!
You know what Brinkley's first time in the 40 was? 4.65.

Also I think he's over 255 pounds. If he's healthy, he's the first MLB off the board and likely goes in the 1st round.

5 bucks he is not the 1st ILB off the board :D

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Man the official Combine time calculations suck!!
You know what Brinkley's first time in the 40 was? 4.65.

Also I think he's over 255 pounds. If he's healthy, he's the first MLB off the board and likely goes in the 1st round.

4.65 + 4.69/2 = 4.72? Naa, the official time is not an average but rather laser timed. His first time was 4.72. You saw the electronic time, not the official laser time.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
If Brinkley ran twice, how is his official time, ( laser timed), 4.72?

If he only ran twice, that 4.72 correlates to either the 4.65 I saw or the 4.69 he ran.

I can't imagine there's 7/100ths of a second difference between an electronic timed 4.65 and a laser timed 4.72.

Either they're dropping each player's fastest time and taking the laser time from his slower 40, or I'm very confused!!

And if the first time is legal, why would it be dropped?

Anyway, Brinkley looked like South Carolina's best player and was a friggin bowling ball on defense.

If Rey or Laurinaitis can't get their 40s into the 4.7 range at their Pro Days, watch who falls and who rises during the Draft.

Go_Eagles77
02-23-2009, 02:51 PM
I can't imagine there's 7/100ths of a second difference between an electronic timed 4.65 and a laser timed 4.72.

Why? It happened to practically every single player at the combine.

keylime_5
02-23-2009, 02:54 PM
Brinkley is a big strong, fast guy - but he is not fluid at all and is like a DT playing LB out there. I don't think he'll ever amount to much in the NFL, but that's just my 2 cents. Good north-south linebacker though at USC who has potential in certain roles.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-23-2009, 03:04 PM
All I'm saying is I think the laser time of 4.72 is off his electronic 4.69, not the first 40 he ran in 4.65.

No matter, he still blows away Laurinaitis and Rey.
KeyLime_5, I shocked you aren't giving Jasper more love. I think he's much better than you think, and if the Skins trade down in the first into the 20-28 range, he's gonna be wearing burgundy and gold.

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 03:14 PM
All I'm saying is I think the laser time of 4.72 is off his electronic 4.69, not the first 40 he ran in 4.65.

The official time is the player's best laser timed 40. They drop the lower. I know you watched when it said 4.65. Yesterday Deon Butler ran an electronically timed 4.22 but officially a 4.38.

MarioPalmer
02-23-2009, 03:19 PM
This draft keeps getting worse and worse as the days roll on. Now Maualuga is pure garbage, everyone knows that he pulled up cause he was pulling a wagon, even watching the 40 you just knew it was going to be horrid. He's done, count him as a 3rd or 4th rounder now.

Maybin, OMG is he the worst.

Cushing is okay, but not totally impressed, only Curry stuck out and he was awesome like everyone thought he'd be.

Now my draft has gotten down to 6 guys worth anything, Stafford, Sanchez, Curry, J.Smith, E.Monroe, V.Davis and M.Jenkins. Jesus this draft could quite possibly be worst then the 2005, and I never ever thought any thing could be as bad as that diasaster.

phlysac
02-23-2009, 03:23 PM
I think Brinkley has really helped himself by losing weight and running a good 40. With that said, he isn't the best fit in all schemes. I do think he has the potential to be a very good 3-4 TED however.

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 03:24 PM
This draft keeps getting worse and worse as the days roll on. Now Maualuga is pure garbage, everyone knows that he pulled up cause he was pulling a wagon, even watching the 40 you just knew it was going to be horrid. He's done, count him as a 3rd or 4th rounder now.

Maybin, OMG is he the worst.

Cushing is okay, but not totally impressed, only Curry stuck out and he was awesome like everyone thought he'd be.

Now my draft has gotten down to 6 guys worth anything, Stafford, Sanchez, Curry, J.Smith, E.Monroe, V.Davis and M.Jenkins. Jesus this draft could quite possibly be worst then the 2005, and I never ever thought any thing could be as bad as that diasaster.

Is this a serious post? Not many expected Maualuga to blaze his 40. I thought he acted a bit as well in pulling up, but you can't rule out the hamstring problem he has been fighting off. He's not a 3rd-4th Rounder, he is still a likely first rounder. A perfect fit as a 3-4 ILB. His game is instinctual, powerful, and explosive. I thought Maualuga ran the first ten yards well also, as he looked to have a bit of acceleration. Timed speed is simply not his forte.

You are being far too dramatic based on Combine times. How Vontae Davis is one of the six best players in this draft is beyond me. I assume though, if he runs a 4.5-4.55 tomorrow you will be dropping him to the 5th-6th?

Babylon
02-23-2009, 03:25 PM
This draft keeps getting worse and worse as the days roll on. Now Maualuga is pure garbage, everyone knows that he pulled up cause he was pulling a wagon, even watching the 40 you just knew it was going to be horrid. He's done, count him as a 3rd or 4th rounder now.

Maybin, OMG is he the worst.

Cushing is okay, but not totally impressed, only Curry stuck out and he was awesome like everyone thought he'd be.

Now my draft has gotten down to 6 guys worth anything, Stafford, Sanchez, Curry, J.Smith, E.Monroe, V.Davis and M.Jenkins. Jesus this draft could quite possibly be worst then the 2005, and I never ever thought any thing could be as bad as that diasaster.


So far the top guys have been so-so. I think the depth is going to be pretty good. I have been impressed with guys like Nelson and Cook (TEs), Woods (C), Orakpo and English (DEs), Barwin, Matthews and Cushing (OLB) Bey, Britt, Robiskie, Harvin, Maclin (WRs)

Dissapointments would be: Andre Smith, Oher, Maybin, Laurinaitis, Rey Rey.

619
02-23-2009, 03:25 PM
This draft keeps getting worse and worse as the days roll on. Now Maualuga is pure garbage, everyone knows that he pulled up cause he was pulling a wagon, even watching the 40 you just knew it was going to be horrid. He's done, count him as a 3rd or 4th rounder now.

Maybin, OMG is he the worst.

Cushing is okay, but not totally impressed, only Curry stuck out and he was awesome like everyone thought he'd be.

Now my draft has gotten down to 6 guys worth anything, Stafford, Sanchez, Curry, J.Smith, E.Monroe, V.Davis and M.Jenkins. Jesus this draft could quite possibly be worst then the 2005, and I never ever thought any thing could be as bad as that diasaster.

You're overreacting, this draft is every bit as talented as previous years though you may not see it now. If you ask me, I could honestly tell you I'd take this class over the '08 class. BTW, Maybin may end up being one of the elite prospects available so I don't know what you're saying ..

MarioPalmer
02-23-2009, 03:26 PM
I think Brinkley has really helped himself by losing weight and running a good 40. With that said, he isn't the best fit in all schemes. I do think he has the potential to be a very good 3-4 TED however.

Brinkley will never be an elite ILB, and with Rey being one of the biggest busts in recent history in terms of hype as well JL this LB class just got aweful real quick. Curry and Cushing are the only real elite players and Cushing needs to prove that he can stay healthy, so really on Curry is the beast of this LB crop.

I can't tell you how disgusted I am in Rey Maualuga right now. What a complete waste of space to run as bad as he did.

keylime_5
02-23-2009, 03:29 PM
All I'm saying is I think the laser time of 4.72 is off his electronic 4.69, not the first 40 he ran in 4.65.

No matter, he still blows away Laurinaitis and Rey.
KeyLime_5, I shocked you aren't giving Jasper more love. I think he's much better than you think, and if the Skins trade down in the first into the 20-28 range, he's gonna be wearing burgundy and gold.

He won't sniff the first round, he's a third round developmental linebacker. Doesn't have half the range of Laurinaitis and isn't as quick as even Maualuga. He's worth taking a chance on, but don't let a good combine blind the fact that he has some serious question marks abotu his game on the field translating to the NFL.

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2009, 03:36 PM
In terms of "things that are not disappointing", I think Jarron Gilbert may well have gotten himself into the first round as the best prospect at 3-4 DE in the draft at 6'6" 280, athletic with room on his frame, a 4.87 40 yard dash (better than Maybin!), and an impressive 35.5" Vertical.

He may well now be in Castillo's league for "ideal physical ability for a 3-4 DE." With a bunch of 3-4 teams picking in the later first (San Diego, Dallas, Jets, New England, Miami, Baltimore, Pittsburgh) and a handful picking near the top of the second (Kansas City, Cleveland, Green Bay, Denver), I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up being a late first high second kind of guy.

Also Ian Johnson has been a very pleasant surprise, if he can stay healthy who wouldn't want him on their team?

MarioPalmer
02-23-2009, 03:39 PM
Is this a serious post? Not many expected Maualuga to blaze his 40. I thought he acted a bit as well in pulling up, but you can't rule out the hamstring problem he has been fighting off. He's not a 3rd-4th Rounder, he is still a likely first rounder. A perfect fit as a 3-4 ILB. His game is instinctual, powerful, and explosive. I thought Maualuga ran the first ten yards well also, as he looked to have a bit of acceleration. Timed speed is simply not his forte.

You are being far too dramatic based on Combine times. How Vontae Davis is one of the six best players in this draft is beyond me. I assume though, if he runs a 4.5-4.55 tomorrow you will be dropping him to the 5th-6th?

I'm just disgusted in him thats all. I'm sure he will work out well in a 34, but I was hoping for a low 4.7 or even a high 4.6 then he would have solidified himself as a top 10 pick, but with this 40, which is probably around the 4.9 more than 4.87 is just God aweful.

As for Vontae Davis, I think if he runs in the 4.3 he is the man, if he pulls a wagon like Rey then he's a late first early second. Davis has his athleticism to shine for these scouts and GMs, if doesn't show that he is screwed.

But as far as Rey is concerned I'm almost sick right, now like I want to ******* cry.

Babylon
02-23-2009, 03:43 PM
You're overreacting, this draft is every bit as talented as previous years though you may not see it now. If you ask me, I could honestly tell you I'd take this class over the '08 class. BTW, Maybin may end up being one of the elite prospects available so I don't know what you're saying ..


I think you could make that statement about a lot of guys, Maybin has done nothing to validate his high draft status. Let's tell it like it is.

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 03:44 PM
I'm just disgusted in him thats all. I'm sure he will work out well in a 34, but I was hoping for a low 4.7 or even a high 4.6 then he would have solidified himself as a top 10 pick, but with this 40, which is probably around the 4.9 more than 4.87 is just God aweful.

As for Vontae Davis, I think if he runs in the 4.3 he is the man, if he pulls a wagon like Rey then he's a late first early second. Davis has his athleticism to shine for these scouts and GMs, if doesn't show that he is screwed.

But as far as Rey is concerned I'm almost sick right, now like I want to ******* cry.

Remember that most of Vontae's hype has been given to him for circumstances off the field. He is very athletic and it is well-known. He is the brother of fellow freak athlete, under-achieving performer, Vernon Davis. On the field, Vontae has tools yet has not pulled them together and he will have to be well-coached and needs some tough love. He was benched a year ago and as a pure CB is well behind Alphonso Smith, DJ Moore, etc. He will turn some teams off.

Don't forget Zach Thomas was a 4.9 guy in addition to being very undersized. Maualuga's a football player that will show up more on film and on the field than at the Combine.

MarioPalmer
02-23-2009, 03:46 PM
Remember that most of Vontae's hype has been given to him for circumstances off the field. He is very athletic and it is well-known. He is the brother of fellow freak athlete, under-achieving performer, Vernon Davis. On the field, Vontae has tools yet has not pulled them together and he will have to be well-coached and needs some tough love. He was benched a year ago and as a pure CB is well behind Alphonso Smith, DJ Moore, etc. He will turn some teams off.

Don't forget Zach Thomas was a 4.9 guy in addition to being very undersized. Maualuga's a football player that will show up more on film and on the field than at the Combine.

God damn it Pudge, I'm trying to move on and all you keep doing is try and pull me back in. This is like a bad break up when you find out your girlfriend is really guy and all you have to keep saying is "its a dude, just walk away."

PossibleCabbage
02-23-2009, 03:47 PM
Is this a serious post? Not many expected Maualuga to blaze his 40. I thought he acted a bit as well in pulling up, but you can't rule out the hamstring problem he has been fighting off. He's not a 3rd-4th Rounder, he is still a likely first rounder. A perfect fit as a 3-4 ILB. His game is instinctual, powerful, and explosive. I thought Maualuga ran the first ten yards well also, as he looked to have a bit of acceleration. Timed speed is simply not his forte.

I still want to see Maualuga run the 3-cone and the shuttle drills. I was never high on the guy, but the thing that worried me most (other than his tendency to be overaggressive), was his lack of fluidity and combined with his adequate (but not exceptional) speed, that limits his range considerably.

Personally, I think he's best suited to a 4-3 mike that doesn't cover much as a 2-down backer, where he could be fabulous, but I don't know if that merits a top 16 pick. He could also do well as a 3-4 Jack/Ted/Buck/Will (someone needs to standardize this terminology, please) ILB, but that's the less premium of the two ILB spots.

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 04:54 PM
God damn it Pudge, I'm trying to move on and all you keep doing is try and pull me back in. This is like a bad break up when you find out your girlfriend is really guy and all you have to keep saying is "its a dude, just walk away."

hahaha It's tough to walk away in your own thread. Trust me, I've been on your end of plenty of arguments in my own threads. Some people are more more stubborn or harsh than others. I'm just looking for a discussion, not necessarily a heated argument. Personally I feel like you're putting a bit too much weight into what players do in workouts, rather than how they perform on the field. It's not a big deal, you obviously are not the first person and the draft is not an exact science.

bored of education
02-23-2009, 04:57 PM
God damn it Pudge, I'm trying to move on and all you keep doing is try and pull me back in. This is like a bad break up when you find out your girlfriend is really guy and all you have to keep saying is "its a dude, just walk away."

so you were boning a dude?

grapes= DUDE!

ThePudge
02-23-2009, 05:00 PM
I still want to see Maualuga run the 3-cone and the shuttle drills. I was never high on the guy, but the thing that worried me most (other than his tendency to be overaggressive), was his lack of fluidity and combined with his adequate (but not exceptional) speed, that limits his range considerably.

Personally, I think he's best suited to a 4-3 mike that doesn't cover much as a 2-down backer, where he could be fabulous, but I don't know if that merits a top 16 pick.

Personally I'd love to see the first ten yards of his 40 again and maybe get a time for that. At first glance it looks like he accelerated very well but could not sustain it over the entire 40. He plays a downhill, banger style, so that initial burst is very important. I will be taking a look at that 40 again, because all of that happened roughly a split second haha.

The three-cone and shuttle would be intriguing as you said. I would love to see him drop his hips and work in a short area. He would have been very interesting to watch in the same positional drills that Aaron Curry really blew everyone away with.

Hokie_Pokie08
02-23-2009, 06:32 PM
This draft keeps getting worse and worse as the days roll on. Now Maualuga is pure garbage, everyone knows that he pulled up cause he was pulling a wagon, even watching the 40 you just knew it was going to be horrid. He's done, count him as a 3rd or 4th rounder now.


But I thought Jon Gruden said he was the best?

Saints-Tigers
02-23-2009, 11:46 PM
Well we've been saying it for months now, but we got accused of just hating on Maualuga when you were saying he would blaze the 40 MP....

619
02-23-2009, 11:49 PM
I think you could make that statement about a lot of guys, Maybin has done nothing to validate his high draft status. Let's tell it like it is.

Really? I don't know how many guys could potentially be considered elite in this class, his ceiling is as high as anyone's.

Iamcanadian
02-23-2009, 11:51 PM
GM's will probably wait to see him run at his pro day. They probably discount the run because he came up lame during his run.
It always amazes me the rush to judgment.

PossibleCabbage
02-24-2009, 12:22 AM
GM's will probably wait to see him run at his pro day. They probably discount the run because he came up lame during his run.
It always amazes me the rush to judgment.

They'll watch him run at his pro day certainly. But every scout out there has that little bit of doubt in the backs of their heads that "Was he really hurt, or was he just acting to get people to forgive a bad time?" They'd be bad scouts if they weren't at least a little bit suspicious. Certainly they don't have to wait to do anything. They can move him down on their boards now, and move him back up in case he runs well at his pro day. There's plenty of time left before the draft.

Maualuga ran poorly, and then quit. Maybe that's because it was a legit injury, and we can forgive him for it, but he did what he did.

Don Vito
02-24-2009, 12:45 AM
I hope Maualuga falls to the Pats, he would be a great compliment to Mayo. I doubt we take a true ILB in the first round 2 years in a row, but if he were available I would not be opposed to it. They would be nasty behind Seymour-Warren-Wilfork, but a DE/OLB or DB are much more likely first round picks.

steelersfan43
02-24-2009, 01:24 AM
What did maualuga run in the 40?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-24-2009, 10:36 AM
If Rey falls past the 20th pick, someone is going to get a very angry, motivated SOB playing MLB!!

I agree that in a traditional 4-3, like the Skins run, not a cover two scheme similar to Chicago where the MLB is expected to take deep drops in coverage, Rey could be a Pro Bowler.

At the #13 pick, the SKins would seriously consider drafting them if it wasn't for needs elsewhere on the roster.

PossibleCabbage
02-24-2009, 11:36 AM
What did maualuga run in the 40?

4.83 I believe.

MarioPalmer
02-24-2009, 12:44 PM
4.83 I believe.

What is McShay talking about?

Maualuga's day ended almost as soon as it started when he pulled up with hamstring injury after completing his first 40-yard dash (4.77). Maualuga said the injury was an issue before he came to the combine but that he didn't want to use it as an excuse not to work out. The good news is he has time to heal before USC's pro day April 1, so his stock won't take much of a hit if he works out well in Los Angeles.

I thought the 40 was 4.83, I guess he ran a 4.77. If thats the case he actually didn't hurt himself at all, and actually made huge strides with that number. Thats what they were expecting anyway.

Anyway, can anyone confirm this?

PossibleCabbage
02-24-2009, 12:49 PM
What is McShay talking about?



I thought the 40 was 4.83, I guess he ran a 4.77. If thats the case he actually didn't hurt himself at all, and actually made huge strides with that number. Thats what they were expecting anyway.

Anyway, can anyone confirm this?

I think since Maualuga only ran once and then withdrew from the combine, the only times we have for him are unofficial (hand clocked) times, not the official (laser clocked) times. So there's going to be a little bit of slop in his time, as unofficial times can easily differ by +/- .03 seconds. I'll try to see if I can find an official time though.

MarioPalmer
02-24-2009, 12:59 PM
I think since Maualuga only ran once and then withdrew from the combine, the only times we have for him are unofficial (hand clocked) times, not the official (laser clocked) times. So there's going to be a little bit of slop in his time, as unofficial times can easily differ by +/- .03 seconds. I'll try to see if I can find an official time though.

I heard it was a 4.83 as well, but when he posted the 4.77 I thought meybe I had missed something. Getting workout info on Rey is like looking for the pot of gold, you are on the right path, but as soon as you think you found it your lost again.

Oh well, one of the best sites still has him as the #1 MLB, "*************", they are an excellent resource. I know Starheather lives and dies by their evaluation..haha

But seriously, they still have him top 20, which is still very high considering. I have a feeling that maybe on his pro-day that he runs in the mid 4.7 range, then the doubts about his straight line speed won't worry people so much.

Remember, Chad Greenway ran a 4.76 or 78 at his Combine then blew it away with his Pro-Day which I think was a 4.6 flat, I don't expect to see Rey jump that far but 4.73-76 is a worthy range for him. Plus, Pudge was right about his first 10-15 yards. He had very good explosion then couldn't sustain the speed, that could have been because of the hammy, but he has a full month to heal and workout again.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Rey will be fine, but a question I have is how is his 'official time" faster than his unofficial 4.83?
Same with Laurinaitis. His unofficial times were in the 4.8 range, but his official times were in the 4.7s.

PossibleCabbage
02-24-2009, 01:13 PM
Rey will be fine, but a question I have is how is his 'official time" faster than his unofficial 4.83?
Same with Laurinaitis. His unofficial times were in the 4.8 range, but his official times were in the 4.7s.

Unofficial times are timed with a stopwatch and are prone to human error. Official times are timed with a laser and are somewhat more accurate. You'll see it both ways, where an official time is sometimes slower and sometimes faster than the unofficial time. It's just whether the person holding the watch hit it too soon or too late.

Dark Knight01
02-24-2009, 01:15 PM
Stafford and Sanchez are over rated IMO.

It's too bad the Lions have the 1st overall pick in this years draft.....no one will trade up to that spot and there is really is no clear cut #1 pick.

But they need a QB.

They might be better to draft Curry or an OT with that 1st pick and then maybe draft Josh Freeman or Pat White in round 2 to be their QB of the future.

Dark Knight01
02-24-2009, 01:22 PM
GM's will probably wait to see him run at his pro day. They probably discount the run because he came up lame during his run.
It always amazes me the rush to judgment.



^^^Exactly...especially since the workouts are without pads on.

Scouts, coaches and GM's will always go back to the tapes anyway.

MarioPalmer
02-24-2009, 01:32 PM
Rey will be fine, but a question I have is how is his 'official time" faster than his unofficial 4.83?
Same with Laurinaitis. His unofficial times were in the 4.8 range, but his official times were in the 4.7s.

So they were in the 4.7's then. If thats the case then both will be fine and will be slotted where they were going to go anyway.

SO THEY WERE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!!!

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Yeah but it's easier to talk smack about a player when they run slow!!

IMHO Laurinaitis is going to be an average LB in the NFL. He's not half the player AJ Hawk was, and AJ is up and down in the pros.

Babylon
02-24-2009, 01:52 PM
So they were in the 4.7's then. If thats the case then both will be fine and will be slotted where they were going to go anyway.

SO THEY WERE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!!!

Ok Denny Green. I'm not worried about some of these times. Things like the jump and vertical are also important. The SC guys are "who we thought they were". Cushing and Matthews will run 4.6 at their pro days when they can prepare and loosen up better and Rey is a 4.7 guy. Rey's issues i think go beyond a 40 time, i think he's pretty off the wall and not sure he's going as high as some might think.

Laurinaitis looked like an average athlete and really didnt stand out but he is pretty fluid in space and instinctive. Another 4.7 type athlete who's value is going to be high late in round 1. Just my take.

Cushing picks 12-15
Matthews picks 12-15
Maualuga picks 16-32
Laurinaitis picks 16-32

MarioPalmer
02-24-2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah but it's easier to talk smack about a player when they run slow!!

IMHO Laurinaitis is going to be an average LB in the NFL. He's not half the player AJ Hawk was, and AJ is up and down in the pros.

as far as their pro careers I really am stumped. I think Rey will have a very good pro career. Maybe 3-4 Pro-Bowls over his life span, but JL I think is more along the lines of Paul Pozluszny, not elite, not great, but certainly solid and definitly an asset.

I just think Rey has that 3-4 ProBowls and can be a consistent force in the middle.

MarioPalmer
02-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Ok Denny Green. I'm not worried about some of these times. Things like the jump and vertical are also important. The SC guys are "who we thought they were". Cushing and Matthews will run 4.6 at their pro days when they can prepare and loosen up better and Rey is a 4.7 guy. Rey's issues i think go beyond a 40 time, i think he's pretty off the wall and not sure he's going as high as some might think.

Laurinaitis looked like an average athlete and really didnt stand out but he is pretty fluid in space and instinctive. Another 4.7 type athlete who's value is going to be high late in round 1. Just my take.

Cushing picks 12-15
Matthews picks 12-15
Maualuga picks 16-32
Laurinaitis picks 16-32

Wow, really? You really think Mathews jumps that far? I hope he isn't the Bobnby Carpenter of this bunch, all workout and no production.

Babylon
02-24-2009, 02:03 PM
Wow, really? You really think Mathews jumps that far? I hope he isn't the Bobnby Carpenter of this bunch, all workout and no production.


I used to like Carpenter till he blew his knee out so i dont think that's a fair comparison. Matthews is pretty much the same athlete as Cush and right there as the 2nd best LB in the draft. I think Clay can play OLB in either defense and he can really get after the QB. I'm not telling you anything you dont know.

As for where he'll land i think both he and Cushing will come off the board at 12-15 when Denver, New Orleans, Washington and Houston pick,also wouldnt be surprised if a Cleveland or a Jacksonville are there by way of a trade. We'll see.