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View Full Version : Do some players bust because they just don't care?


Legend234
02-22-2009, 08:54 PM
I am starting to think that some players just don't pan out because after they get payed, they just don't care anymore.

Andre Smith is easily the most talented OT in the draft imo, but Jason Smith seems like he has that passion for the game and competitivness to where he won't let himself fail.

When we talk about intagibles. How much of a factor is passion for the game?

If it is a big factor then guys like Jason Smith, Knowshon Moreno, Brian Robiski, Malcolm Jenkins, Aaron Curry, Brian Cushing are the guys I want to take because you can tell that they just love to play. Talent wise I think Andre Smith has few peers but I worry that he just doesn't care about the game.

jballa838
02-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Guaranteed 34 Million. If you don't love the game, it doesn't matter. You are rich.

keylime_5
02-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Well Vince Young sure looks like he's about to become the prime example of a player busting b/c he lacks dedication. The guy has the talent but doesn't have the desire to succeed that some guys do.

OzTitan
02-22-2009, 09:53 PM
I don't think Vince lacks desire, at least not at first. Maybe now that he has come crashing down to earth, but what I think he lacked was a true appreciation for what it would take to be a successful NFL QB. He had the desire to be great, he just didn't realize what it would take to be great. Now that he (hopefully) does realize, the desire may or may not still be there. In any case, I don't think you could look at him after the rookie season Houston OT win, or the NE loss in week 17 of the same season, and say he didn't have the desire.

Mike Williams shows how desire can produce a bust. If the passion isn't there, it's unlikely the player will amount to anything. To get this far you'd think passion would be a requirement but it's clearly not always the case.

hockey619
02-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Ive always refferred to it as heart, that drive to never give up and work harder than everybody else. The will to do what the other guys wont to win. Whether that is working harder in the gym and on the field or staying in the hotel rather than going out drinking cause you have a workout in the morning and dont want to sacrifice the oppurtunity to get better.

To me, there is no more important attribute in any athlete.

JFLO
02-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Ive always refferred to it as heart, that drive to never give up and work harder than everybody else. The will to do what the other guys wont to win. Whether that is working harder in the gym and on the field or staying in the hotel rather than going out drinking cause you have a workout in the morning and dont want to sacrifice the oppurtunity to get better.

To me, there is no more important attribute in any athlete.

Could not agree more, especially with that last sentence.

hagy34
02-22-2009, 10:07 PM
Mike Williams is a perfect example of not caring. What a bum.

art vandelay
02-22-2009, 10:08 PM
Yeah I definitely think some top picks who are so athletically gifted and who have been able to rely on their talent through talent bust easier. They get paid so much with their rookie deal that they are set for life.

Case in point: OT Mike Williams of the Bills.

JFLO
02-22-2009, 10:09 PM
Yeah I definitely think some top picks who are so athletically gifted and who have been able to rely on their talent through talent bust easier. They get paid so much with their rookie deal that they are set for life.

Case in point: OT Mike Williams of the Bills.

I was always confused with Mike Williams.

Did he play well and hurt his neck or did he never play well and hurt his neck?

I never figured that one out...

The Great Jonathan Vilma
02-22-2009, 10:13 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that this is the case with many players. I honestly can't say that I blame some of them either. Giving that much gauranteed money to a kid who hasn't played a down in the NFL is a HUGE risk. You have to have an internal drive, and some don't have it. The end goal of many is to be financially stable and make money, and once they have that, much of the drive is removed. Talent and natural ability can keep them in the league, but without drive and determination to eb the best, you just float along and get paid....nothing wrong with that, but sucks for those investing the money in you...

WMD
02-22-2009, 10:14 PM
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3939/e21c51fa21c38d5e1965342.gif

art vandelay
02-22-2009, 10:17 PM
I was always confused with Mike Williams.

Did he play well and hurt his neck or did he never play well and hurt his neck?

I never figured that one out...

He ******* blew at LT. Just too fat and heavy footed. He played decent at guard but nothing to write home about. Definitely had weight issues. After he left Buffalo I think he went to Jacksonville but to be honest I never followed his career after that.

Staubach12
02-22-2009, 10:18 PM
Absolutely. If I don't have that kind of work ethic and I'm getting paid millions upon millions guaranteed, hell no, I'm not going to spend my time on the practice field after workouts getting better. I'm going to be out blowing that cash.

Twinkle Toes
02-22-2009, 10:29 PM
That is one of my biggest question marks about Beanie Wells. And it showed again today IMO. It is not that I don't think he cares, it is that I don't think he cares enough.

Guys will look at Beanie's time and say to themselves "I thought he was faster than that."

Truth is - he is - much faster than the time reflected in his 40. Which makes me even more suspicious of who Beanie Wells really is. I was suprised as anyone watching Wells run the 40 - not because of the time itself, but the technique. I was sure that Wells would have been 'coached up' in his 40 technique by OSU's Butch Reynolds, who has worked with previous OSU rookie classes to great results, so I was truly expecting in the 4.4s at least.

It sure looked like Robiskie absorbed Reynolds' techinque;
Wells on the other hand looked like he'd never run a 40 before - poor starting technique and he 'fought' both runs from start to finish.

I'm not as concerned with the time as I am left with the idea that he's just not dedicated to his craft. Compare to Donald Brown.

How anyone with the resources at his disposal could do such a poor job preparing for "the most important job interview of his life" is way beyond me.

Scott Wright
02-23-2009, 08:24 AM
I can tell you for a fact that there are a lot of guys who play the game only because they are good at it and can earn a lot of money doing it.

However, I think that can be said for a lot of professions.

WCH
02-23-2009, 08:49 AM
You're right Scott, this is certainly common in a lot of professions.

I think that it seems worse in football than in other sports because football commands such freakishly athletic people. These guys jump like basketball players, lift like power-lifters, run like sprinters, and hold up to the most bone-shattering hits we've ever seen in professional sports. The number of humans who are genetically capable of making it to the NFL is small.

wonderbredd24
02-23-2009, 09:01 AM
Absolutely:

See Steve Spurrier and Gerard Warren for two good examples

wonderbredd24
02-23-2009, 09:05 AM
That is one of my biggest question marks about Beanie Wells. And it showed again today IMO. It is not that I don't think he cares, it is that I don't think he cares enough.

Guys will look at Beanie's time and say to themselves "I thought he was faster than that."

Truth is - he is - much faster than the time reflected in his 40. Which makes me even more suspicious of who Beanie Wells really is. I was suprised as anyone watching Wells run the 40 - not because of the time itself, but the technique. I was sure that Wells would have been 'coached up' in his 40 technique by OSU's Butch Reynolds, who has worked with previous OSU rookie classes to great results, so I was truly expecting in the 4.4s at least.

It sure looked like Robiskie absorbed Reynolds' techinque;
Wells on the other hand looked like he'd never run a 40 before - poor starting technique and he 'fought' both runs from start to finish.

I'm not as concerned with the time as I am left with the idea that he's just not dedicated to his craft. Compare to Donald Brown.

How anyone with the resources at his disposal could do such a poor job preparing for "the most important job interview of his life" is way beyond me.

You may be right about him not caring enough, but basing this argument off of his 40 time is ridiculous. The complaint I heard most in regards to his 40 was that he was pushing too hard. That he needed to relax and trust his physical ability. That does not sound like someone who did not care. It sounded like someone who cared too much.

LonghornsLegend
02-23-2009, 09:29 AM
That is one of my biggest question marks about Beanie Wells. And it showed again today IMO. It is not that I don't think he cares, it is that I don't think he cares enough.

Guys will look at Beanie's time and say to themselves "I thought he was faster than that."

Truth is - he is - much faster than the time reflected in his 40. Which makes me even more suspicious of who Beanie Wells really is. I was suprised as anyone watching Wells run the 40 - not because of the time itself, but the technique. I was sure that Wells would have been 'coached up' in his 40 technique by OSU's Butch Reynolds, who has worked with previous OSU rookie classes to great results, so I was truly expecting in the 4.4s at least.

It sure looked like Robiskie absorbed Reynolds' techinque;
Wells on the other hand looked like he'd never run a 40 before - poor starting technique and he 'fought' both runs from start to finish.

I'm not as concerned with the time as I am left with the idea that he's just not dedicated to his craft. Compare to Donald Brown.

How anyone with the resources at his disposal could do such a poor job preparing for "the most important job interview of his life" is way beyond me.


I think Mayock summed it up perfectly:


"What the 40 tells me with running backs is go check the tape again," said NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock. "With Beanie Wells, there's explosion. He had one of the best, if not the best, broad jumps. He had a good vertical jump. He has lower body explosion, but he isn't going to run away from a corner that runs a 4.3. What he will do is run over that corner, hopefully, and stay healthy because that's his biggest issue."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/02/nfls_big_on_beanie_ohio_states.html


Your not drafting the guys who can run the fastest, that's not the way it works, and again Beanie isn't even a "speed back" so it wouldn't really matter, he doesn't need to run a 4.4 to be a great NFL back.

hockey619
02-23-2009, 09:43 AM
That is one of my biggest question marks about Beanie Wells. And it showed again today IMO. It is not that I don't think he cares, it is that I don't think he cares enough.

Guys will look at Beanie's time and say to themselves "I thought he was faster than that."

Truth is - he is - much faster than the time reflected in his 40. Which makes me even more suspicious of who Beanie Wells really is. I was suprised as anyone watching Wells run the 40 - not because of the time itself, but the technique. I was sure that Wells would have been 'coached up' in his 40 technique by OSU's Butch Reynolds, who has worked with previous OSU rookie classes to great results, so I was truly expecting in the 4.4s at least.

It sure looked like Robiskie absorbed Reynolds' techinque;
Wells on the other hand looked like he'd never run a 40 before - poor starting technique and he 'fought' both runs from start to finish.

I'm not as concerned with the time as I am left with the idea that he's just not dedicated to his craft. Compare to Donald Brown.

How anyone with the resources at his disposal could do such a poor job preparing for "the most important job interview of his life" is way beyond me.


I agree to a degree about questioning Wells' commitment, but for a different reason. When you watch AP or Moreno or MBIII run, they attack people. They run aggressively and fight like hell, lowering their shoulder or head to run guys over and plow forward.

Wells is bigger than all of them and he doesnt run with that same aggressiveness to me. Yeah hes got the stiffarm, but he doesnt run aggressively and lower the boom to crush dudes the way a guy his size should.

635
02-28-2009, 05:33 PM
I agree to a degree about questioning Wells' commitment, but for a different reason. When you watch AP or Moreno or MBIII run, they attack people. They run aggressively and fight like hell, lowering their shoulder or head to run guys over and plow forward.

Wells is bigger than all of them and he doesnt run with that same aggressiveness to me. Yeah hes got the stiffarm, but he doesnt run aggressively and lower the boom to crush dudes the way a guy his size should.

AD runs a 4.38, and MB ran a 4.48 , which proves your point even more, as Wells is slower than both guys and still doesn't run as hard as they do

but yes a lot of players bust because tehy don't care enough. Unless you're mentally imbalanced, there's no way you can't care about the sport that you've loved, played your whole life, and earns you your living. It's just that a combination of emotional unpreparedness along with the lack fo realization of how tough the NFL game is turns a lot of talented players into busts.

Halsey
02-28-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't know if many players just don't care. I think it's more about players who don't care enough. When competing at the highest level you better be really, really talented or work ur azz off. The best players are both really, really talented and work really hard. Players who don't have elite talent and don't give it serious effort will fail.

635
02-28-2009, 06:07 PM
I don't know if many players just don't care. I think it's more about players who don't care enough. When competing at the highest level you better be really, really talented or work ur azz off. The best players are both really, really talented and work really hard. Players who don't have elite talent and don't give it serious effort will fail.

I agree with everything except the bolded part.

players without elite talent make it and thrive in this league, because hard work has it's merits in a gruesome league like the NFL

jnew76
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
This is the reason I would not draft the following players in the first round and why I think the teams that do, will be disappointed -

Andre Smith
Chris Wells
Vontae Davis
Tyson Jackson

Halsey
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
I agree with everything except the bolded part.

players without elite talent make it and thrive in this league, because hard work has it's merits in a gruesome league like the NFL

You're disagreeing and agreeing at the same time? I said players who don't have elite talent and don't work hard will fail. Yes, I know there are players who lack elite talent and make it by outworking the competition.

635
02-28-2009, 06:12 PM
You're disagreeing and agreeing at the same time? I said players who don't have elite talent and don't work hard will fail. Yes, I know there are players who lack elite talent and make it by outworking the competition.

oh my fault, I thought you meant players without elite talent, along with players without talent.

ninerfan
02-28-2009, 06:23 PM
When you get paid too much before you've actually done anything can you blame players ? The whole rookie salaries especially day 1 are ridiculous. Sign them to a low contract initially and have them earn the paycheck. Unfortunately too much money in sport these days - its a business.

BaLLiN
02-28-2009, 06:41 PM
well an example of which i feel sorry for the Colt because i thought he was a great fit, DT Quin Pittock, from ohio st. He retired after 2 seasons? never seen that early of a retirement.

And yes Vince was at one point contemplating retirement, and something about suicide? I dont get how he could go from being god to an unmentioned player most of the time

635
02-28-2009, 06:44 PM
well an example of which i feel sorry for the Colt because i thought he was a great fit, DT Quin Pittock, from ohio st. He retired after 2 seasons? never seen that early of a retirement.

And yes Vince was at one point contemplating retirement, and something about suicide? I dont get how he could go from being god to an unmentioned player most of the time

because he's a bum with intelligence and emotional problems

superman
03-01-2009, 01:20 PM
How anyone with the resources at his disposal could do such a poor job preparing for "the most important job interview of his life" is way beyond me.

they think their application (college career) was good enough to override it. which is wrong.

killxswitch
03-02-2009, 10:08 AM
well an example of which i feel sorry for the Colt because i thought he was a great fit, DT Quin Pittock, from ohio st. He retired after 2 seasons? never seen that early of a retirement.


He retired after his rookie season. Indianapolis hates Quitcock, what a loser.

I don't know the entire story behind the owners' decision to throw out the last 2 years of the CBA, but might the rookie contracts issue be part of it? If rookies weren't making so much money maybe they would be more motivated to work hard. I've heard plenty of owners and GMs complain about first day rookie contracts.

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Sure, just look at michael johnson, he could be a mario like prospect but he doesn't care about football, that's why he only tries every 5th snap.

Iamcanadian
03-02-2009, 10:50 AM
We are talking about young kids here who just had millions put in their pockets. There are bound to be guys among them that let the money and fame go to their head and simply make bad decisions. That is where the talented GM's shine, they are far better able to assess a player's character, determination, mental toughness and desire to be great and hence make far fewer blunders than weak GM's.

Haralson98
03-02-2009, 05:59 PM
Rashuan Woods is a perfect example to me. He wasn't the fastest guy but ran great routes, had great hands, and was one of the most polished WR's I've seen come out in a long time. He dominated at Oklahoma St. but didn't have the desire to play football anymore after he got drafted it seemed like.

When he came out I thought he was a top 20 player and the 2nd best WR behind Larry Fitzgerald in 04. It still baffles me that he never panned out and only lasted 3 years in league while playing on 2 different teams. I rememeber when he was sent to NFL Europe he couldn't even start for the team he played for there.

GET LOOSE
03-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Not all but yea there are some who just lose the motivation and drive they had before. You gotta love the game to play in the NFL. Its tough to go out and give it 100% everyday when you know you are gettin 10mil a year win or lose.