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View Full Version : The #5 Overall Pick?


keylime_5
02-25-2009, 09:56 AM
Okay, combine's over. If Aaron Curry is gone who do the Browns pick.
(don't wanna put this on the team board, whole board's opinion/debate wanted)

Crabtree I won't assume will be taken just yet.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 10:06 AM
I'd take Everette Brown. I think he's better than Orakpo and ultimately the Browns have to take a pass rusher if Curry is off the board

bitonti
02-25-2009, 10:10 AM
I think they take Rak and the reason being Brown could be gone and even if he isn't i don't like the idea of 2 1st round florida state OLB/DE on the same team. gotta diversify.

JFLO
02-25-2009, 10:14 AM
I have heard rumors that Mangini is interested in trading either Braylon Edwards or Kellen Winslow Jr, but I think that there will be too much difficulty going into those scenarios, so both of them end up staying at least for one more year. So Crabtree is out of the question.

I'm somewhat split down the middle between Orakpo and Brown, but I think that Mangini and Kokinis end up with Brown. They'll fathom over his overall athleticism and speed off of the edge.

They could very well go with Orakpo though.

MetSox17
02-25-2009, 10:28 AM
I'd take Everette Brown. I think he's better than Orakpo and ultimately the Browns have to take a pass rusher if Curry is off the board

How is he better than Orakpo?

Babylon
02-25-2009, 10:51 AM
How is he better than Orakpo?


I want to hear this one also.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 10:56 AM
How is he better than Orakpo?

Orakpo is a physical freak, but has the following glaring issues
-Struggles to shed blocks
-Has almost no pass rushing moves
-Bad hand usage
-Durability concerns
-Questions about his motor

For a senior, he is not polished at all, has basically one pass rushing move, and when the blocker gets on him, it's over. He runs himself out of a ton of plays too. I think he's got the most potential out of anyone in this draft, save Michael Johnson, but he has a huge bust risk just like Johnson.

Why hasn't Orakpo developed? Was he just relying purely on his physical gifts because he could or because he's uncoachable?

Everette Brown needs to improve his hand usage and protect his legs better, but he's got effective pass rushing moves including but not limited to his spin move and shoulder dip. He's also shown to be far more durable than Orakpo.

I also like the fact that Everette Brown at 6'2" 256lbs shows the ability to get low and has the ability to bull rush because he has an advantage with leverage.

I don't think he has quite the potential Orakpo does, but he's got a much higher floor. He's got all the makings of a guy who can break the FSU DE jinx and be a dominant pass rusher at the next level.

Just my opinion though

jnew76
02-25-2009, 11:06 AM
Orakpo is a physical freak, but has the following glaring issues
-Struggles to shed blocks
-Has almost no pass rushing moves
-Bad hand usage
-Durability concerns
-Questions about his motor

For a senior, he is not polished at all, has basically one pass rushing move, and when the blocker gets on him, it's over. He runs himself out of a ton of plays too. I think he's got the most potential out of anyone in this draft, save Michael Johnson, but he has a huge bust risk just like Johnson.

Why hasn't Orakpo developed? Was he just relying purely on his physical gifts because he could or because he's uncoachable?

Everette Brown needs to improve his hand usage and protect his legs better, but he's got effective pass rushing moves including but not limited to his spin move and shoulder dip. He's also shown to be far more durable than Orakpo.

I also like the fact that Everette Brown at 6'2" 256lbs shows the ability to get low and has the ability to bull rush because he has an advantage with leverage.

I don't think he has quite the potential Orakpo does, but he's got a much higher floor. He's got all the makings of a guy who can break the FSU DE jinx and be a dominant pass rusher at the next level.

Just my opinion though

Very good post, and I can see your points... I disagree that Brown has a better bull rush than Orakpo. I agree that Brown has a better repetoire of pass rush moves. He has a great spin move and wins battles to the inside.

However, when healthy, Orakpo is more dominant, more athletic, better potential in coverage, better in pursuit, and more potential overall.

Brown might be better day one, but Orakpo SHOULD be better down the road.

JFLO
02-25-2009, 11:36 AM
Very good post, and I can see your points... I disagree that Brown has a better bull rush than Orakpo. I agree that Brown has a better repetoire of pass rush moves. He has a great spin move and wins battles to the inside.

However, when healthy, Orakpo is more dominant, more athletic, better potential in coverage, better in pursuit, and more potential overall.

Brown might be better day one, but Orakpo SHOULD be better down the road.

I don't understand how you can say that Orakpo has better potential in coverage when he and both Brown are barely used in coverage situations.

I understand the fact that Orakpo has a bit more athleticism than Brown, but it's honestly not by a lot.

I would take either one at this point in coverage because neither one really has a ton, if any moderate experience in coverage.

keylime_5
02-25-2009, 11:59 AM
on one hand Brown has more pass rushing moves and good first step burst, but his closing speed to the QB is significantly slower than Orakpo's. He flies around the edge. Consistency is an issue for Orakpo, but a lot like Gholston last year there is some concern about Brown's production coming mostly from only a handful of games. I didn't watch enough Florida State football to tell if he disappears some games like Vern did, but the numbers say what they say. Brown is always the first guy off the line, but there is some concern about his explosiveness to the QB, and his relatively poor vertical jump doesn't help. I think most will have Orakpo as the highest rated DE in the draft. Great strength and athleticism and a good senior year despite a few short-comings like inconsistency and only one pass rushing move so far should do the trick.

Saints-Tigers
02-25-2009, 12:47 PM
They may have to go with Raji if he's there, I guess we'll have to wait and see with Shaun Rogers.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 12:50 PM
I didn't say Brown had a better bull rush... just that his size and strength suggest he should have an effective one.

I don't buy the claim that Brown is significantly slower in pursuit than Orakpo.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 12:51 PM
They may have to go with Raji if he's there, I guess we'll have to wait and see with Shaun Rogers.

Rogers will be our nose tackle. He's unhappy because he signed what he perceives to be a bad contract with the rumors that Haynesworth could get $100M, which would be double what Rogers got.

Babylon
02-25-2009, 01:57 PM
Everette Brown at 6-1 1/2 and 255 lbs looks like an OLB to me. His numbers at the combine compared to other LBs are average at best. To me Orakpo is a legit DE with better athletic ability and whatever he lacks in technique i think can be taught. Brown may make some sense if the Browns were to trade down to the middle of the 1st round but at #5 i think they'd get burnt.

LonghornsLegend
02-25-2009, 02:10 PM
I didn't say Brown had a better bull rush... just that his size and strength suggest he should have an effective one.

I don't buy the claim that Brown is significantly slower in pursuit than Orakpo.

That makes no sense, Orakpo is much stronger the Brown, just watch Orakpo bull rush right through Loadholt...Also I don't understand why people keep saying he has no pass rushing moves, I don't think you guys have seen nearly enough to be making statements like that.


I do agree Brown is a better pick, I still think he's a better pick in a 3-4 and Orakpo would be great in a 4-3, I think he can fit but I just like Brown in a 3-4, great edge rusher and you don't need to be the biggest or strongest guy to be an edge rusher.

keylime_5
02-25-2009, 02:28 PM
It's interesting that some people think Orakpo isn't a great fit at OLB in a 3-4. He's more athletic and fluid than a lot of actual NFL 3-4 OLBs and has even been told by a 4-3 team (washington) that they would use him at SAM linebacker and he'd put his hand down on 3rd down. The guy is a great fit at OLB.

TexasKing007
02-25-2009, 02:29 PM
I think Orakpo is the top 34 rush LB

AND

the top 43 weak side DE

I am biased, but his ceiling is higher than anyone else.

keylime_5
02-25-2009, 02:35 PM
This is interesting. Don Banks' latest mock draft is really god awful, but this is an interesting nugget:

"The Browns top need is for a pass-rushing outside linebacker in their 3-4 defense, but I'm hearing that new Browns general manager George Kokinis is wary of Brian Orakpo's penchant for injury -- he pulled a hamstring at the combine -- not to mention Texas' less-than-stellar track record of producing great NFL players."

SenorGato
02-25-2009, 02:45 PM
I take Brown over Orakpo because he's younger, healthier, and more polished in his game.

At 5...maybe the Browns go with Jenkins to go with Wright? Davis even? Or will they go Wells to give them a RB? Iunno...maybe they get Crabtree to pair with Edwards and eventually replace him for whatever reason.

Mangini can send Edwards to the Jets if he wants. KW2 too.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 05:56 PM
That makes no sense, Orakpo is much stronger the Brown, just watch Orakpo bull rush right through Loadholt...Also I don't understand why people keep saying he has no pass rushing moves, I don't think you guys have seen nearly enough to be making statements like that.


I do agree Brown is a better pick, I still think he's a better pick in a 3-4 and Orakpo would be great in a 4-3, I think he can fit but I just like Brown in a 3-4, great edge rusher and you don't need to be the biggest or strongest guy to be an edge rusher.

Why does me saying Everette Brown at 6'2" 256 should be able to bull rush mean Brian Orakpo is unable to or is unable to do it as well?

I have watched plenty of Orakpo. He has basically 2 moves. He either runs around the tackle or fakes running around the tackle and tries to cut inside of him. That's all he's got. It's no wonder he had as little success as he did against Alex Boone. What else do you think he does in terms of moves?

He needs a ton of coaching and development or he's going to be a huge bust.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 05:57 PM
I take Brown over Orakpo because he's younger, healthier, and more polished in his game.

At 5...maybe the Browns go with Jenkins to go with Wright? Davis even? Or will they go Wells to give them a RB? Iunno...maybe they get Crabtree to pair with Edwards and eventually replace him for whatever reason.

Mangini can send Edwards to the Jets if he wants. KW2 too.

I'm sure the Browns would be more than happy to work out a deal for Kellen Winslow, but Edwards we'll keep.

j05son
02-25-2009, 07:31 PM
I would want Raji if Curry is gone. Raji will be the franchise NT for this team, if Rogers stays he'll move to the DE spot like Cleveland initally wanted to put him. Theres not much depth on the D-Line, and question marks around Williams [played hurt all season but didn't look like he belonged ina 3-4 defense] and Smith [10 years in the league, 32 years old, coming off of an injury]. Plus look at the guys that will rotating in for us? Everyone talks about how we need LB's which we do, but don't negate the fact that the entire front 7 is the problem, not just the LB core. Curry will be gone with one of the top 3 picks.

My big board [currently]:
1. Curry
2. Raji
3. Orakpo
4. Crabtree
5. Brown

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 07:56 PM
Shaun Rogers is arguably the best nose tackle in football. Moving him away from that is ludicrous.

Not only that, it makes no sense from a monetary standpoint. There is already about $100 million in Rogers and Williams. This would put us at least $150 million just on the DLine and we have basically 1 linebacker and almost no money invested in that unit when aside from the nose tackle, Linebackers make the defense.

The best hope for Raji and the Browns is someone trading up to get Raji since there are at least 3 teams after him in Green Bay, San Francisco, and Denver.

j05son
02-25-2009, 08:09 PM
Wilfork, Seymour and Warren. Seemed like it worked well for NE.

Mr.Regular
02-25-2009, 08:11 PM
I have them pegged with Orakpo, because I think most boards have him over Brown and Curry should be gone by that point.
Crabtree is a darkhorse if he is available, as is Raji, but right now I think Orakpo is a safe bet to put in your mocks.

wonderbredd24
02-25-2009, 08:14 PM
Wilfork, Seymour and Warren. Seemed like it worked well for NE.

While that's true and a valid point, they had linebackers. We don't. And that doesn't take away from how absolutely dominant Rogers is as a nose tackle. Why mess with it?

Personally, I'd rather go for smaller, more athletic DEs like a Pittsburgh which seems more in tune with Rob Ryan's attacking style

afftbl10
02-26-2009, 07:17 PM
I would rather be safe and go with Malcolm Jenkins. You know what you are getting with him which is a top 10 cb in this league and will be for the next 10 years. I feel like we have our Orakpo/Brown prospect in Kameron Wimbley, which hasnt worked out very well at all.

keylime_5
02-26-2009, 07:21 PM
soooooo.....if you draft ONE pass rusher in the first round and he doesn't work out you should never do it again? That is no way to look at it. You need pass rushers to have a good defense, especially in the 3-4, and you can rarely get those guys in free agency or after round one. We must draft a linebacker high this year to rush the passer.

afftbl10
02-26-2009, 07:35 PM
I want a proven playmaker on my defense who nobody has anything to say bad about. (other than a 4.55 that means nothing to me). But if you want a guy who played 1 year in college getting sacks on 1 or 2 moves in a pass happy conference then fine(Orakpo). Do we know he has the ability to stop the run? He will have to against teams like the Steelers and Ravens. I want a guy who has 3 years of experience playing in the cold weather playing against a lot of elite talent. IMO I don't think Brown or Orakpo are worth a top 5 overall pick. I am coming from a conservative standpoint here. To be honest I would only be truly happy with Curry. I just think Jenkins would be a lot safer and help right away. The other 2 are not ready to start right away like Jenkins is.

fear the elf
02-27-2009, 01:58 PM
i don't know what it is, but my gut tells me to stay away from both orakpo and brown too. i don't think we are a team that is in a position to be able to take a risk on these guys. maybe if we only had one or two needs to address, but not in our current situation.

Komp
02-28-2009, 01:35 AM
Hmmm Rob Ryan is your new DC....so that means he will probably grab Everette Brown off the board so he can drop him in coverage all the time.

TT Gator
02-28-2009, 03:33 AM
At the Browns #5 pick I have QB Stafford, OT Smith, OLB Curry, and WR Crabtree all gone. Curry is the only one above I think the Browns would take and if he's there its a sure thing. Their obvious choices in my mind this early are DEs Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo, CB Malcolm Jenkins, RB Beenie Wells, DT BJ Raji, and possibly WR Jeremy Maclin, ILBs Maualuga or Laurinaitis. They have Edwards IMO one of the best WRs in the NFL and a couple solid back-ups so i doubt they'll go wit a WR when they have other pressing needs also they can pick up a quality receiver wit one of their 2nd round picks if they want one. I also think both top ILBs are talented but it may be too early for either of them. Tho if they've got their eye on one of um that won't stop them, but for disscusion sake lets say they dont. Bj Raji is a great DT but I belive hes over-hyped and to get rid of one of their better defenceive players for a rookie whos unproven would put them in the same position as last year at best. So in my mind the picks who make the most sense are the DEs, Jenkins, and Wells. Jamals not getting any younger plus hes on a downslope in his career at this point he can only get worse IMO. They already have a young starting QB and WR throw Wells in and you got your offensive targets for years to come. Tho Jenkins didn't show as well as expected at the combine he's still the best DB in the draft period and their safest pick. He showed us what he can do on the field and I believe he can improve their D-fence right away. Brown and Orakpo are both excellent pass rushers who can get to the QB while their size has ppl calling for a move to LB I think they can both play DE if need be or LB and while I like Orakpo I think Brown would be the best fit in the Browns D. Honestly I wouldn't bet on who they'll pick it could be any of these players but I think it will be Everette Brown even tho I want it to be Jenkins(cuz I like him not cuz I think he's a better player). I think Brown will play DE and be a big help on their D. Any one think Pettigrew is a possiblity? I think it'd be way too early for him but they lost their starting TE and its the draft anythings possible. With Winslow gone in a trade i'm really curious what they'll do with their 2nd round picks. I think they'll get OLB Paul Kruger or CB Steve Smith/D.J. Moore(assuming they go DE in the 1st) with the 36th and TE Chase Coffman(how cool would that be?) with the 50th. If they go a different way in the first I could see them picking up Michael Johnson if hes around or Robert Ayers to fill the DE slot. I still see Coffman as a lock for the 50th pick if hes there and I think he will be. The Browns have 3 early picks so they could go with any pick really cuz they could still pick up a quality player at their other needed positions with one of their 2nd round picks. It makes me(a Browns fan) really excited and pretty nervous at the same time.

initial_flo
02-28-2009, 04:31 AM
If we made the switch to 4-3 overnight I'd want Raji. Rogers and Raji blowing up the line on every play would pay dividends at every other position. Doesn't look like it's possible though.

Jenkins is alright if you are picking like 15th or later.

I think Crabtree is a bit overrated.

I think Orakpo is the choice here, because he has the potential to be an answer for the sad pass rush we've has all these years. It may be a reach but who are we kidding, all of these guys are a reach as compared to the last few years.

For the 5 position, it's kind of a curse this year. But at least Orakpo has the potential to make the pick worthwhile from what I've seen.