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View Full Version : The Percy Harvin Debate


hockey619
02-25-2009, 06:34 PM
I didnt see any threads on this on the first two pages and I feel like this is a legitimate topic for debate leading into the draft.

Which position do you think Harvin should primarily play and be considered for the draft, RB or WR?

I feel like hes a definite tweener that should work more out of the backfield in single back and spread formations while also seeing some WR time in these formations and should be mostly out wide when the other team has a lot of backers on the field. You dont want him running into heavy defensive fronts because of his smaller frame.

His role will be something of a Warrick/Bush like player at the next level.

I feel like his best fit would be on the Patriots if they continue their spread ways next year. A more wide open offense like that plays to his strengths in my opinion.

Thoughts?

Larry121283
02-25-2009, 06:37 PM
He reminds me of a Matt Jones kind of player (in terms of pre-draft projection). Just an athlete and you really don't know where to put him, and a lot of his success will be decided by what team takes him. All I know is you want the ball in his hands.

JFLO
02-25-2009, 06:40 PM
If he plays running back, then the chances of him getting hurt on a consistent basis(knowing that he already does) will skyrocket. While, if he is used as a wide receiver, then he should be productive, while at the same time, not taking as many big or possibly injury causing hits.

I think with a guy like Harvin, who has all the talent in the world, but just can't stay healthy, you have to be very cautious and safe with him.

tylerb929
02-25-2009, 06:43 PM
He reminds me of a Matt Jones kind of player (in terms of pre-draft projection).

Matt Jones is quite a bit bigger, I'm thinking more along the lines of Devin Hester (as he has better football speed than timed speed, and his best assets are his change of direction, acceleration, and elusiveness).

hockey619
02-25-2009, 06:50 PM
Devin Hester and Peter Warrick are probably the best two comparisons, especially Hester. Hes similar as a WR too in that hes gunna need to work on his routes but that hes fast and is special with the ball in his hands.

And I think he meant Matt Jones = Harvin because theyre both very athletic but dont really have a definite position.

Shane P. Hallam
02-25-2009, 06:51 PM
I was very impressed by his route running at the combine from what I saw. I think he can play WR, maybe line him up in the back field and use him like Reggie Bush sometimes.

DeathbyStat
02-25-2009, 06:55 PM
He be a punt and kick returner...a slot receiver...a wild cat guy...a running back and a deep threat


But mostly a slot reciever

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Devin Hester couldn't nail down a position at Miami because he wasn't consistent enough as a WR and didn't cover well as a CB.

If you've followed Percy Harvin's career, he's being seriously underestimated as an NFL prospect.

To get the best production out of him, I'd keep him at WR, with the ability to line up in various formations and carry the ball in the wildcat.

The player he reminds me of most is Santana Moss; similar size, speed, and playmaking ability.

He's a top 15 talent and his injuries are overblown from what I've seen.

Matt Jones is a bad comparison because it suggests Harvin is just an athlete, not a skilled football player.

Urban Meyer was greedy and tried to use Harvin all over the offense because he was so talented, instead of allowing him to concentrate solely on catching the ball.

Whoever drafts him will get Joey Galloway/Santana Moss type receiver with KR ability.

You pair him with a big possession wideout and he'll be devastating.

ThePudge
02-25-2009, 07:04 PM
Below is a small scouting report type thing I just actually wrote in my Rankings thread. I copied and pasted it here...

Percy Harvin - 5'11 1/8 - 192 - 4.41

- Harvin is a somewhat confusing prospect and you could really make an argument against him: his playing style, his durability, or even the track record of Florida WR's. He also has it in his head that he's the best and can rub some people the wrong way. What you can't make an argument about is his raw talent, athleticism, and that he's flat out, a very good football player.

I cannot claim to know how Harvin will be used at the next level really, but I'm confident that talent will prevail and he'll be able to have a good NFL career. He's undersized, but not short or frail. He runs tough after the catch and with the ball in his hands. He has explosive athletic ability and relatively untapped potential as a Punt Returner/Kick Returner. He shows remarkable short-area quickness, elusiveness in space, and breakaway speed in addition to very solid hands, crisp routes (though he has not been asked to run a full route tree), and the will & toughness to put his nose down and get that extra yard.

He is an extremely talented athlete that may be asked to do a number of things at the next level. He could conceivably be the league's top all-purpose player with capabilities at WR/PR/KR/RB and would be ideal for a team that wants to run a "Wildcat" from time to time. He has so much value everywhere. In my opinion a better prospect than both DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal, both of whom made big impacts in their rookie year's. There is just so much he can do and so much overall versatility. I see his best fit as a #2 WR, Punt Returner, and a potential terror on end-arounds or from the wild-cat. More of an ATH prospect than WR, but still has some very good tools for the Wide Receiver position.

CJSchneider
02-25-2009, 07:10 PM
I was very impressed by his route running at the combine from what I saw. I think he can play WR, maybe line him up in the back field and use him like Reggie Bush sometimes.

See, I see him as the opposite of Bush.

Reggie is a RB - Slot
Percy is a Slot - RB type IMO.

Very similar, but at opposite ends of the spectrum - if that makes sense.

Shane P. Hallam
02-25-2009, 07:17 PM
See, I see him as the opposite of Bush.

Reggie is a RB - Slot
Percy is a Slot - RB type IMO.

Very similar, but at opposite ends of the spectrum - if that makes sense.

Ummm, alright. I feel that means they can do many similar things.

scottyboy
02-25-2009, 07:22 PM
Harvin is slowly but surely growing on me. I believee he can be a successful WR in the NFL...well, I don't fully believe that yet, but I'm getting there

Shane P. Hallam
02-25-2009, 07:24 PM
I think he def. can, I just think he will get injured before he does.

SteelCzar76
02-25-2009, 07:25 PM
Harvin is one of my favorite players of this Draft class. (After Rey Maualuga, Fight On)

I don't feel as though his potential should be wasted by a coaching staff attempting to make him a "Reggie Bush" type of back.

I think he would be better served lining up at WR. He would be very difficult for any team to cover from the slot. But i can also see him eventually becoming an excellent number 1 receiver given time to adjust to the pro game.

He's a competitor with speed, quickness, hand eye coordination and fluid athleticism that one can't be "coached up" to have,...you've got to be born with it.

tylerb929
02-25-2009, 07:27 PM
He'll definately be successful, at some aspect of the game, even if its just as a returner. But does anyone think he'll be a head-case and not worth the hassle of drafting him, or are his mental/work ethic issues overrated?

Babylon
02-25-2009, 07:35 PM
Curious as to how people viewed his ability to catch the ball at the combine (missed that part).

Thing that is hard to gauge is how he'll do at the next level with a strong armed QB, he was pretty much relegated to catching short routes and turning them into long gainers.

New England seems to be a place that shows interest in Florida receivers so i wouldnt be totally against him landing there, especially if they were to collect another #1 pick with the Matt Cassel situation.

THav916
02-25-2009, 07:39 PM
I also don't think he should be used how Reggie Bush is used. I ironically think the way he will be used...2/3 WR, returner, 3rd down back...is how Bush SHOULD be used. Bush and Harvin are not every down backs. But you want to get the ball in their hands as many ways as possible as many times as possible. Special players...just not NFL RB's.

ThePudge
02-25-2009, 07:41 PM
New England seems to be a place that shows interest in Florida receivers so i wouldnt be totally against him landing there, especially if they were to collect another #1 pick with the Matt Cassel situation.

The Florida Wide Receiver experiment has not worked out for the Pats yet as Jabar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, and Chad Jackson have all been NFL disappointments. They only drafted Jackson I believe as the Texans took Gaffney and I think the Chargers took Caldwell.

Still, the fit would be very interesting because of Belichick. He has a creative mind as a coach and Harvin is truly a player that you can get creative with.

scottyboy
02-25-2009, 07:47 PM
I think he def. can, I just think he will get injured before he does.

I may be awesome, but i cannot unfortunately, predict injuries

San Diego Chicken
02-25-2009, 07:59 PM
Harvin should play at running back because he would be a great weapon in the screen game. I see him more as a third down running back and return specialist, and this actually is a good market for that type of player -- just ask Philip Rivers how valuable Darren Sproles is in the screen game (A.J. Smith must agree because he just handed him 6 million dollars). Plus, there are none, zip, zero guys in this running back class who are major big play threats, so someone who needs that type of player should look at Harvin there and not reciever neccessarily.

nepg
02-25-2009, 08:05 PM
He's what the Bears want Devin Hester to be... A versatile slot receiver who you give the ball to in open space. He's not a RB.
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gramage
02-25-2009, 08:17 PM
He's a reciever with the vision/feet to be used out of the backfield, which is actually what I think Reggie Bush should be as well.

I think you can conclude whether or not you have a good coaching staff by answering the question "could my coach carve out a role for Harvin on my team." I see the bills the most and the answer there is a definite no, I don't think the coaches have the imagination or flexibility to create a game plan/regular package for that kind of player.

I am a bit of a ravens fan and would love to see them draft him. Good power runners, ok group of posession recievers (Heap included if he can get healthy) and if you add Harvin roving around the field defences cannot get comfortable. Other teams I think he'd be a home run for are the falcons (run him underneath Roddy White) dolphins, texans (Harvin and Slayton in the backfield together) and the cardinals if they lose Boldin.

hugegmenfan
02-25-2009, 08:24 PM
He reminds me of a Matt Jones kind of player (in terms of pre-draft projection). Just an athlete and you really don't know where to put him, and a lot of his success will be decided by what team takes him. All I know is you want the ball in his hands.

i disagree. i think his place is at slot WR but teams will have to be very creative with him including his specific placement on the field and the plays he is involved in

Saints-Tigers
02-25-2009, 08:37 PM
I think he's a receiver, and a versatile one that you use on screens, reverses and bubble screens to get open. I think he'll be wasted in the backfield, unless it is as a pass catcher, and he won't hold up taking a pounding at RB.

Texas Homer
02-25-2009, 08:41 PM
WR in my opinion with the ability to take a few carries a game.

MetSox17
02-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Ummm, alright. I feel that means they can do many similar things.

I'm sure what CJ means is that he would prefer to have him doing more WR things than RB things, as opposed to Reggie Bush, who is a running back first, but does WR things very well.

For the record, i wouldn't do more than a few plays for Harvin at RB in the NFL, just to keep him off a stretcher. If you use him as a WR, you can maximize his potential and abilities, there's no need to have him run tosses out of the backfield to get knocked on his ass by 250lb LBs.

BeerBaron
02-25-2009, 09:30 PM
Personally, I feel that he is all WR. He's going to make his money in the NFL catching passes.

Now, I could see a lot of scenarios where he lines up in the backfield and maybe catches a swing pass or goes in motion out to the slot....possibly even take the occasional outside handoff or sweep.

But any team who tries to use him for primarily running back duties on a regular basis is asking for trouble.

In my opinion, if he's still on the board, the Colts should be all over this guy round 1. Harrison is moving out and the Colts have always stayed strong, 3 deep at least at the WR position. Because they are always doing so well, they're typically never in a position to draft an athletic freak the caliber of Harvin. But come draft day, lack of a true college position and some injury concerns will put him in that range I think.

tylerb929
02-25-2009, 09:34 PM
In my opinion, if he's still on the board, the Colts should be all over this guy round 1. Harrison is moving out and the Colts have always stayed strong, 3 deep at least at the WR position. Because they are always doing so well, they're typically never in a position to draft an athletic freak the caliber of Harvin. But come draft day, lack of a true college position and some injury concerns will put him in that range I think.

The Colts generally stick to high character guys, that are intelligent, team first players. From what I've heard Harvin is not that kind of player. It will be interesting to see if they will bend the rules for an "Elite" talent (when healthy).

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
02-25-2009, 10:35 PM
Harvin is a little cocky, in that he knows he is blessed physically in ways that most football players aren't and is willing to tell you how gifted he is if you bring up the subject. But he's not a me-first, bad-mouthing, malcontent.

He never complained about how he was used in Urban Meyer's offense, he didn't whine about the Gators not featuring him in more plays or using him too much at RB.

As WRs go, Percy is steady from an emotional standpoint. I expect him to be a good team guy who should do a good job of avoiding trouble off the field.

Remember, Percy was one of Saint Tebow's favorite players on the Gators roster, if that counts for anything.

I think he got into a scuffle in HS, but I don't recall him having those types of issues at Florida.
If the Colts drafted him, that would be a deadly mix on offense and the perfect replacement for Harrison.

BeerBaron
02-25-2009, 10:52 PM
Harvin is a little cocky, in that he knows he is blessed physically in ways that most football players aren't and is willing to tell you how gifted he is if you bring up the subject. But he's not a me-first, bad-mouthing, malcontent.

He never complained about how he was used in Urban Meyer's offense, he didn't whine about the Gators not featuring him in more plays or using him too much at RB.

As WRs go, Percy is steady from an emotional standpoint. I expect him to be a good team guy who should do a good job of avoiding trouble off the field.

Remember, Percy was one of Saint Tebow's favorite players on the Gators roster, if that counts for anything.

I think he got into a scuffle in HS, but I don't recall him having those types of issues at Florida.
If the Colts drafted him, that would be a deadly mix on offense and the perfect replacement for Harrison.

Well put. I wanted to say something along those lines but wasn't sure how to word it...you put it nicely.

I think he'd make a lot of sense to the Colts in that he wouldn't need to play a huge role immediately. Gonzalez, Wayne and Clark would be the primary weapons in the passing game, and Harvin could simply be worked in every now and then to gash the defense.

And another underrated part of his fit there would be in the return game. I can't think of the last guy the Colts had who really scared you in the return game.

tylerb929
02-25-2009, 11:47 PM
I can't think of the last guy the Colts had who really scared you in the return game.

Well thats pretty easy, all of them, if your a Colts fan.

BeerBaron
02-25-2009, 11:51 PM
Well thats pretty easy, all of them, if your a Colts fan.

Haha...I had to read it twice before I got it, lol. Good one!

Hickman561
02-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Well put. I wanted to say something along those lines but wasn't sure how to word it...you put it nicely.

I think he'd make a lot of sense to the Colts in that he wouldn't need to play a huge role immediately. Gonzalez, Wayne and Clark would be the primary weapons in the passing game, and Harvin could simply be worked in every now and then to gash the defense.

And another underrated part of his fit there would be in the return game. I can't think of the last guy the Colts had who really scared you in the return game.

I think Harvin goes to tampa. Indy already have Wayne,Gonzalez and Clark, So a WR isn't that much of a need they should go a different route in the draft IMO

BeerBaron
02-26-2009, 12:25 AM
I think Harvin goes to tampa. Indy already have Wayne,Gonzalez and Clark, So a WR isn't that much of a need they should go a different route in the draft IMO

Your forgetting though that the Colts are always going that extra step to be deep at WR. When they had Wayne and Harrison in their prime, they had Stokely in the slot. When Stokley bounced, they drafted Gonzalez in the first round.

Plus, the Bucs would be wise to go another direction. DHB or Maclin if available...Harvin is too much of a question mark imo to go to a team that will need him to start right off the bat.

BBIB
02-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Percy Harvin like his QB at Florida is an enigma of a prospect who people either think will boom or bust.

IMO, the only way Harvin busts is if he can't stay healthy. I think he is too talented to not have success if he stays healthy. He can catch balls out the backfield, he can be a deep threat, and I think he could even take a few snaps between the tackles.

DeSean Jackson meets Steve Slaton

BeerBaron
02-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Percy Harvin like his QB at Florida is an enigma of a prospect who people either think will boom or bust.

IMO, the only way Harvin busts is if he can't stay healthy. I think he is too talented to not have success if he stays healthy. He can catch balls out the backfield, he can be a deep threat, and I think he could even take a few snaps between the tackles.

DeSean Jackson meets Steve Slaton

Throw on some young Dante Hall with his return ability as well.

gramage
02-26-2009, 04:06 PM
IMO, the only way Harvin busts is if he can't stay healthy.

Or goes to a team with a coach who hasn't shown an ability to adjust for individual talent (Buffalo, Oakland, Jacksonville, I think Minnesota, teams like that.)