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Scott Wright
02-26-2009, 03:40 PM
I just made the post-Scouting Combine rankings update live:

* Positional Rankings
* Sleepers
* Overrated / Underrated
* Top 150 Overall (expanded from 100)

I also moved seven players to a new position. They are:

Pat White, West Virginia - Was: WR | Now: QB
Connor Barwin, Cincinnati - Was: DE | Now: OLB
Cody Brown, Connecticut - Was: DE | Now: OLB
Cornelius Lewis, Tennessee St. - Was: OT | Now: OG
Kevin Ellison, USC - Was: S | Now: OLB
Ian Campbell, Kansas St. - Was: OLB | Now: DE
Clinton McDonald, Memphis - Was: DE | Now: DT

Be sure to check it out!!!

http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Rankings.php

eaglesalltheway
02-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Sweet, been waiting since Tuesday to see what you got in store for us...

holt_bruce81
02-26-2009, 04:11 PM
I don't really understand how Pat White, Javorski Lane or Knowshon Moreno are overrated.

Pat White has looked good/great during his Senior Bowl week and at the Combine. To me, he deserves all the praise he is getting.

Javorski Lane, don't really know who's overrating him. Everyone knows he's a big lazy turd.

Knowshon Moreno, you even have him going in the 1st round. He didn't have the greatest 40-time but that was kind of expected. I think everyone has him going in the 20-35 range. Don't think that's overrating him at all. He has the vision, patience, hands and elusiveness to be a very good Back at the next level.

princefielder28
02-26-2009, 04:13 PM
May I ask where Sebastian Vollmer is in your rankings???

bored of education
02-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Gerald McGrath not in your top 100 pisses me off

:D

thenewfeature06
02-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Ellison to LB?

i dont know i liked him at safety even running a 4.85 i still think he can force alot of fumbles in the secondary

JRTPlaya21
02-26-2009, 05:08 PM
Yes!, something to ponder over now.

Wrathman
02-26-2009, 05:58 PM
Could you provide more contrast than gray on white so we (ok, me) can read the comments with less strain? Thanks for your work.

Scott Wright
02-26-2009, 08:36 PM
I don't really understand how Pat White, Javorski Lane or Knowshon Moreno are overrated.

Pat White has looked good/great during his Senior Bowl week and at the Combine. To me, he deserves all the praise he is getting.

Javorski Lane, don't really know who's overrating him. Everyone knows he's a big lazy turd.

Knowshon Moreno, you even have him going in the 1st round. He didn't have the greatest 40-time but that was kind of expected. I think everyone has him going in the 20-35 range. Don't think that's overrating him at all. He has the vision, patience, hands and elusiveness to be a very good Back at the next level.

Pat White - He is a fifth or sixth round value as a quarterback in my opinion. There is talk of him going as high as the second or third round, which would be a reach even if he were willing to play wide receiver and work as a return man. Which he has all but said he isn't.

Knowshon Moreno - I hate that it keeps coming off like I'm a Moreno hater because I'm not. He's a heck of a player and a first round pick. With that said some have him as one of the Top 10 players in the entire draft and I find that ridiculous.

scottyboy
02-26-2009, 10:46 PM
Britt over Nicks is so much win. <3

ThePudge
02-26-2009, 10:52 PM
I was actually wondering why you had Clinton McDonald at DE over DT and was going to comment on that. Glad to see him moving into the DT rankings.

I agree that Barwin, and Cody Brown should be moved into the OLB section rather than DE, as they are more likely 3-4 OLB's or even 4-3 SLB that can put their hand down and rush on third down. Great work Scott!

Very happy with the move of Chip Vaughn into the Top 5 Safeties, as I've recently done so as well. You seem very low on Emmanuel Cook and Stephen Hodge though, why is that? I know they are more in-the-box players who lack the pure speed, hips, and agility of some of the more athletic Free Safety types, but the two could be effective enforcers and monsters on special teams.

Another thing that interested me was Eben Britton over William Beatty in the Offensive Tackle rankings. I, personally, have been more impressed with Beatty in the pre-draft process and believe he has superior athleticism, feet, natural agility, and even desire than Britton. What I'm saying basically is that I question Britton as a Left Tackle prospect more than I do Britton. I'm wondering if you think Beatty's value on draft day exceeds Britton's despite the fact that Eben is the more fundamentally sound of the two players?

- I know he had the flu, or claimed to at least, but Derrick Williams seems awful high to me. I am aware he is a love him/hate him type prospect due to the fact that he was the third best and third most technically sound WR on his team and still lives on his high school hype quite a bit. I don't think Williams is a 4.6 player, but I also think talk of a 4.35 or so was rather exaggerated. He'll be likely over-drafted, to me he is a Return Specialist with some wide receiver value rather than a Wide Receiver with return value. Of course, people can go back in forth all day on Williams. Just thought I'd comment.

Glad to see Bernard Scott made a leap up in your RB rankings as the kid is a tremendous natural talent. I have Kory Sheets higher personally, he's had a great off-season (if you would be bold enough to call it that): he adds a lot out of the backfield, some special teams value, is a quick, shifty runner that runs with vision. In a two-back system, I think Sheets could be a very good NFL player.

Great work.

jballa838
02-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Austin Collie is underrated. Scott you have him listed from Florida on his Scouting Report page :(

Flyboy
02-26-2009, 11:10 PM
Beasttree at #4! Full of so much win!

ncst8fan83
02-26-2009, 11:20 PM
Awesome having Andre Brown in the top 5 RB but I really feel like James Davis is being underrated. He's going to surprise a TON of teams next year, mark it down.

holt_bruce81
02-27-2009, 01:25 AM
Pat White - He is a fifth or sixth round value as a quarterback in my opinion. There is talk of him going as high as the second or third round, which would be a reach even if he were willing to play wide receiver and work as a return man. Which he has all but said he isn't.

I thought White said he'd be willing to workout as a Receiver at his Pro Day. I don't know, I could be wrong about that.

wicket
02-27-2009, 07:37 AM
i have posted about this before but i really feel that david bruton is getting to little credit for the workout he showed at the combine, he was straight out beasting and showing more than anybody expected and yet nothing really changed in his ranking.

619
02-27-2009, 07:56 AM
i have posted about this before but i really feel that david bruton is getting to little credit for the workout he showed at the combine, he was straight out beasting and showing more than anybody expected and yet nothing really changed in his ranking.

Mayock's came out and said he's the top gunner in the draft. I agree, I think he's a little underrated right now, especially in a weak safety class.

Scott Wright
02-27-2009, 08:48 AM
I've been saying that Bruton is the best specials teams ace in this draft for months.

As for his workout, he did run very well but that speed doesn't translate to the field. Plus he really struggled in coverage in Mobile.

I am as big of a Bruton fan as anybody though and for me he's a late 3rd or early 4th rounder.

wvfan14
02-27-2009, 01:58 PM
Pat White being overrated concerns me. He's being projected by the media as a 3rd round selection, with potential to be an early 2nd round selection. This doesn't seem overrated to me. True, his value at QB isn't strong at this point despite how his workouts and the Senior Bowl has shown the contrary. However, his upside at QB should be huge and the majority of scouts have come to agree that he will be given a fair shot at quarterback in the next few years. He has also said he's willing to play other positions like receiver, h-back, or returns. He's going to his Pro Day working out at QB and WR. So the questions that he could have answered going into the offseason period should have been answered.

Due to 1)showing through the Senior Bowl and Combine that he is able to make NFL throws and at least suit up as a quarterback, 2)opening up to playing other positions and work in a Wildcat formation, 3)moving from 185 lbs. to 200 lbs., and 4)his huge upside at either quarterback, receiver, or both, I think that a 2nd round choice would not be overrating White. Although I think a 3rd round selection would be where I would take him, a team that sees more in him could easily take him a round earlier.

Scott Wright
02-27-2009, 02:11 PM
To my knowledge Pat White has not said he wants to play other positions. I talked to him personally about a month ago and he was quite adamant that he is a quarterback.

Granted he might do some wideout stuff at his Pro Day and may start saying the right things now but he hasn't embraced the move and that needs to happen for him to be successful.

My whole thing is people are talking about White as a 2nd or 3rd rounder but that is based HEAVILY on him working as a wideout / return man, which he hasn't shown a willingness to do.

Halsey
02-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Every year there are some fans and media members who tell us how this year's Pat White/Brad Smith/Seneca Wallace is going to take the NFL by storm and show everyone he can be a star QB in the NFL. 9 out of 10 times they don't ever become a starting QB and they never make much of a difference in the NFL. Michael Vick was a star for a short time, but he was much, much more talented than Pat White will ever be. Seneca Wallace proved many people wrong by simply being a quality backup in the NFL, but he will never be a star. Vince Young may one day be a star, but his size is something guys like WHite will never have. Pat White will likely never be much of a difference maker and the same people hyping him up will move on to someone like Tyrod Taylor next.

GET LOOSE
02-27-2009, 03:01 PM
Pat White!!!

I really hope he makes it in the league so all these "scrambleing qb haters" can shut up. Great athlete and showed some nice passing skills in the combine. As for knowshon I think he will run a better 40 at the pro days and I still like him as a 15-25 pick.

superman
02-27-2009, 03:04 PM
Every year there are some fans and media members who tell us how this year's Pat White/Brad Smith/Seneca Wallace is going to take the NFL by storm and show everyone he can be a star QB in the NFL. 9 out of 10 times they don't ever become a starting QB and they never make much of a difference in the NFL. Michael Vick was a star for a short time, but he was much, much more talented than Pat White will ever be. Seneca Wallace proved many people wrong by simply being a quality backup in the NFL, but he will never be a star. Vince Young may one day be a star, but his size is something guys like WHite will never have. Pat White will likely never be much of a difference maker and the same people hyping him up will move on to someone like Tyrod Taylor next.
tyrod taylor will def be a legit qb prospect

wvfan14
02-27-2009, 04:03 PM
Every year there are some fans and media members who tell us how this year's Pat White/Brad Smith/Seneca Wallace is going to take the NFL by storm and show everyone he can be a star QB in the NFL. 9 out of 10 times they don't ever become a starting QB and they never make much of a difference in the NFL. Michael Vick was a star for a short time, but he was much, much more talented than Pat White will ever be. Seneca Wallace proved many people wrong by simply being a quality backup in the NFL, but he will never be a star. Vince Young may one day be a star, but his size is something guys like WHite will never have. Pat White will likely never be much of a difference maker and the same people hyping him up will move on to someone like Tyrod Taylor next.

It's hard to disagree here and make a case for disagreeing when the popular consensus is that he will fail at quarterback or even at all, but I have to disagree with you.

For the majority of the dual-threat QBs coming out, they are already set on moving to other positions. Michael Robinson moved right away to H-back, while Brad Smith playing pretty much exclusively in the Wildcat for the Jets. Vick was more talented than White is as an athlete for sure, but as pure quarterbacks I don't see too much of a difference. Vick's arm is stronger, however White has shown he's more accurate and is a much better winner and leader. The debate over size is irrelevant, because Drew Brees is only 9 lbs. heavier and almost an inch shorter than White.

I'm not trying to sell the idea that White is going to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL. I'm not sure myself he will start. But he has startling upside in the pros at QB and at worst you are getting a Josh Cribbs-type athlete.

Scott Wright
02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
at worst you are getting a Josh Cribbs-type athlete.

That is possible and if White would embrace a Josh Cribbs-type of role I would be a lot higher on him. However he hasn't and even if he does start saying the right things now, like Eric Crouch did, it's pretty obvious his heart won't be in it. The kid wants to be a quarterback.

Halsey
02-27-2009, 04:37 PM
It's hard to disagree here and make a case for disagreeing when the popular consensus is that he will fail at quarterback or even at all, but I have to disagree with you.

For the majority of the dual-threat QBs coming out, they are already set on moving to other positions. Michael Robinson moved right away to H-back, while Brad Smith playing pretty much exclusively in the Wildcat for the Jets. Vick was more talented than White is as an athlete for sure, but as pure quarterbacks I don't see too much of a difference. Vick's arm is stronger, however White has shown he's more accurate and is a much better winner and leader. The debate over size is irrelevant, because Drew Brees is only 9 lbs. heavier and almost an inch shorter than White.

I'm not trying to sell the idea that White is going to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL. I'm not sure myself he will start. But he has startling upside in the pros at QB and at worst you are getting a Josh Cribbs-type athlete.

An exception does not make the rule. Drews Brees does not prove size doesn't matter. There's a reason most NFL starters are 6'2 215 and up. Brees no more proves size is irrelevant to QB's than Warrick Dunn does for RB's. They are called "exceptions" for a reason. For every undersized player who makes it there are many who don't.

jballa838
02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
lol at the Person who said Vick wasn't a winner. Falcons were a play-off team with him and a 4-12 team twice without him before Messiah Ryan went there. Plus, he won the Heisman and took VT to some nice bowl games if I remember correctly. Overall, this helps White.

JRTPlaya21
02-27-2009, 05:48 PM
Vick didn't win the Heisman.

wvfan14
02-27-2009, 08:53 PM
For one, I agree with you Scott that if he would have embraced it more I'm sure his stock would be higher. However, I'm not sure that he didn't embrace it because he wasn't sure his ability at receiver. For instance, if he would have worked out at WR at the Senior Bowl and Combine and done poorly, his stock would have plummetted. Smart move IMO.

And to my point on Brees, you just made my argument. White can be the exception in the NFL, proving that it can be done with Brees.

And to the concern on Vick, I never said that Vick was not a winner, but that White was a better winner. That should not be a debate.

Halsey
02-27-2009, 09:50 PM
For one, I agree with you Scott that if he would have embraced it more I'm sure his stock would be higher. However, I'm not sure that he didn't embrace it because he wasn't sure his ability at receiver. For instance, if he would have worked out at WR at the Senior Bowl and Combine and done poorly, his stock would have plummetted. Smart move IMO.

And to my point on Brees, you just made my argument. White can be the exception in the NFL, proving that it can be done with Brees.

And to the concern on Vick, I never said that Vick was not a winner, but that White was a better winner. That should not be a debate.

Vick was 19-1 as a starter in college with a BCS title game appearance in 2 years of play.

I'm not saying White can't be the exception, but it's highly unlikely that he will be.

wvfan14
02-27-2009, 11:33 PM
That is impressive, but I am pretty certain it doesn't top White's. However, White hasn't had his NFL career yet so it's hard to judge.

I agree, that it is unlikely. However, my point was that he has a huge upside at QB and that he could be justified as a third round selection just based on his athletic ability and his workouts at the Senior Bowl/Combine.

ncst8fan83
02-28-2009, 02:00 AM
tyrod taylor will def be a legit qb prospect


Russell Wilson>>>>>>>Tyrod Taylor :p