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View Full Version : B.J Raji is he worth the #2 pick?


holt_bruce81
02-27-2009, 03:12 AM
I don't think anyone has him going to the Rams. And although he wouldn't be in my top 3 Rams potential Draftees list....He wouldn't be a bad pick at all.

Chris Long, B.J Raji, Adam Carriker, Leonard Little and Clifton Ryan as your 3rd DT. That has the makings of being a very very good Defensive Line. Spags had a ton of success in New York and one of the main reasons was because of a great Defensive Line.

Just last year the Rams almost selected Glenn Dorsey (it went down to the wire between him and Chris Long) So just saying, if Raji is worth the #2 overall pick. I think you got to look at the Rams as a possible destination.

jth1331
02-27-2009, 04:03 AM
Simply put, no.

Scotty D
02-27-2009, 04:07 AM
Simply put, no.

He's worth it to me. Look at the demand in the league for DTs like him.

jth1331
02-27-2009, 04:10 AM
He's worth it to me. Look at the demand in the league for DTs like him.

I bet that is what they were saying about Dewayne Robertson, Gerrard Warren. I just personally have this anti-DT thing for top 10 DT's.

Shane P. Hallam
02-27-2009, 04:28 AM
With some intelligence, durability, and motor issues, I would still hold off a bit if I were the Rams. I'm not so sure they look DT with the sheer number of holes elsewhere.

nepg
02-27-2009, 09:15 AM
He's worth it. He's the one prospect other than Curry who's been consistently great throughout the year and throughout the draft process. However, he's a bad pick for the Rams. Spags got the job done with 3rd and 4th round DTs. They were good prospects through their respective draft processes, but you can find guys like them in those rounds consistently most years, including this year.

The Rams have too many other needs to spend early picks on DT. They have some built-in versatility along the DL...

I think the Rams' pick depends largely on Crabtree's workout. If he blows, they'll roll with an OT or Curry. My money would be on an OT. Stafford is also an option if the Lions pass.
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HawkeyeFan
02-27-2009, 09:19 AM
Absolutely not.


Aaron Curry is though, but not BJ Rajii, he'd be a big reach.

keylime_5
02-27-2009, 09:20 AM
Absolutely not.


Aaron Curry is though, but not BJ Rajii, he'd be a big reach.

+1
Raji isn't gonna be a top 5 pick.

wogitalia
02-27-2009, 09:33 AM
Rams have so many holes they really cant go wrong. They have the easiest pick of anyone, they can justify just about any player.

I don't like Raji at 2, I think there are better players available there and that they are already solid enough along the line. Still need guys behind them.

nepg
02-27-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't like Curry for them either for some reason. Just seems like a waste. They have to go either OT, Crabs, or Stafford with that pick.
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gramage
02-27-2009, 11:40 AM
I don't think he is, although if you aren't going to find someone comparable later maybe you do it anyway. But the Rams have too many other needs and too much money tied into the line already to reach like that.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-27-2009, 11:50 AM
DTs usually take a few years to develop. I'm against taking them that high.

Babylon
02-27-2009, 01:33 PM
I dont think you use that many high picks (and money) on the defensive line.

I think the pick is Curry or an O-lineman. Would probably make sense to trade down if there were any takers but if Stafford isnt there i dont know who would be trading up.

DHVF
02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
No need, the Rams already drafted Jimmy Kennedy.

regoob2
02-27-2009, 02:17 PM
If they want to switch to a 3-4 they'd have a great DL.

Texas Homer
02-27-2009, 02:28 PM
No, in my opinion.

rainbeaukid2
02-27-2009, 02:29 PM
the rams would be like the new lions, just now selecting DL every year

stephenson86
02-27-2009, 02:38 PM
not worth a #2 pick as it will take him 2 or 3 years to become a force IMO (i think its easier for a UT than a NT to have an impact) so i would take him outside of the top 10 wouldnt take him within it. top 10 teams are looking for INSTANT impact and its tough for a DT to do that i also would stay away from corners in the top 10 as i dont think they hold great value

BigBanger
02-28-2009, 09:49 AM
What is this, "It will take him two or three years because of the position he plays" nonsense?

What position doesn't take time to develop? Other than RB or LB, it's usually pretty hard transition for any position. DEs, WRs, QBs, TEs, DTs, CBs, S, OT, OG, C, literally every position on the field takes a year of learning before you throw them into the fire, then it takes about another year to get used to the NFL, then by year three you start to see them blossom, and by year four you hope they're about ready to hit their peak.

Raji isn't worthy of a top 10 pick because he's simply not a top 10 caliber player. He's overrated because the rest of the DT class is so inferior and due to his size (which gives him scheme versatility) he's hearing his name as a potential top 10 pick. He's getting the QB treatment. Because he's in the 320s and he's a load with above average run stopping ability, he's simply overrated because he plays a position that's such a commodity for NFL teams. The last DT that I can remember that was worth a top 10 pick was Haolti Ngata (It just so happens that he went extremely underrated. He should have been getting top 5 billing. Raji is like a poor mans Haloti Ngata.).

Raji has some serious red flags. He's not a consistent player. His technique is very inconsistent. He can get pushed around quite a bit. There are moments where he looks unstoppable, then there are moments where you see a 320 pound guy play way too high, get eaten up by the center and washed down the line. Raji isn't worthy of a top 10 pick, let alone a top 5 pick. I very rarely rate a guy high that has some significant concerns with his motor. Vernon Gholston and Mario Williams are two of the very few exceptions for me. Raji doesn't have the kind of elite attributes those two had in terms of size and athleticism.

Halsey
02-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Who knows. DT's are hard as hell to scout. If you asked this question about Albert Haynesworth when he was a prospect, people would have said no. For the first few years of Haynesworth's career he actually wasn't worth that high of a pick. Opinions on Raji seem to range from top 5 to second half of the 1st.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 12:08 PM
I think he'll be more productive than Glen Dorsey down the road but wouldnt take him for the Rams if i were them. They can go in so many directions there but i think the safe and smart move is Aaron Curry.

PossumBoy9
02-28-2009, 12:28 PM
Absolutely not.


Aaron Curry is though, but not BJ Rajii, he'd be a big reach.

It wouldn't surprise me if Raji made the bigger impact....no offense to Curry, who's safer.

PossumBoy9
02-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Rams have so many holes they really cant go wrong. They have the easiest pick of anyone, they can justify just about any player.


I think you're right.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Who knows. DT's are hard as hell to scout. If you asked this question about Albert Haynesworth when he was a prospect, people would have said no. For the first few years of Haynesworth's career he actually wasn't worth that high of a pick. Opinions on Raji seem to range from top 5 to second half of the 1st.

Well, Haynesworth kind of played next to John Henderson at Tennessee... So I think people discounted how good Haynesworth actually was. Ron Brace is no chump either. It seems like people are overlooking what Brace did without Raji in 2007. Brace was a great DT.
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eazyb81
02-28-2009, 03:40 PM
It will be interesting to see where Raji eventually lands this year. IMO, he's basically a space eater that will allow other players to make plays, which is a much different player than a guy like Dorsey who is expected to split linemen and disrupt plays in the backfield.

So, how valuable is a space eater, and where does Raji rank compared to guys like Ngata, Hampton, and Wilfork?

nobodyinparticular
02-28-2009, 03:54 PM
Ngata is a playmaker. Hanyesworth is a playmaker. Those guys would be worth #2 picks. I do not see Raji having that kind of effect on the game in the NFL.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 03:59 PM
Ngata is a playmaker. Hanyesworth is a playmaker. Those guys would be worth #2 picks. I do not see Raji having that kind of effect on the game in the NFL.

Expand on that. Why? Raji certainly was a playmaker at BC and has great size for the NFL game. You don't think he can be a Casey Hampton-type player, just as an example?

Paranoidmoonduck
02-28-2009, 04:08 PM
In this draft? Yes, he's absolutely worth it.

635
02-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Expand on that. Why? Raji certainly was a playmaker at BC and has great size for the NFL game. You don't think he can be a Casey Hampton-type player, just as an example?

casey hampton is not a playmaker, he's an excellent NT however. he's averaged 32 tackles and .68 sacks a year in his career.. he does his job well, and his job is not to be in the backfield and trying to disrupt plays, but to engage and push back lineman so his linebackers can make plays. that type of DT is not worthy of a pick in the top 10, and hampton wasn't a top 10 pick.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 04:13 PM
casey hampton is not a playmaker, he's an excellent NT however. he's averaged 32 tackles and .68 sacks a year in his career.. he does his job well, and his job is not to be in the backfield and trying to disrupt plays, but to engage and push back lineman so his linebackers can make plays. that type of DT is not worthy of a pick in the top 10, and hampton wasn't a top 10 pick.

I never said Casey Hampton was a playmaker. What he is is a very good 3-4 DT, and I think Raji can be that and possibly more considering his production at BC. That was my whole point in bringing up Hampton. Wilfork would also be a possible comp for Raji.

On your last sentence, value is relative. You're telling me a Casey Hampton-type DT isn't worth a top ten pick? That's absurd given the lack of blue chip talent in this draft. There are few OTs that could be really good, but many teams at the top already have left tackles, so they would essentially be drafting a right tackle with a top 5/10 pick. That is poor value.

635
02-28-2009, 04:25 PM
I never said Casey Hampton was a playmaker. What he is is a very good 3-4 DT, and I think Raji can be that and possibly more considering his production at BC. That was my whole point in bringing up Hampton. Wilfork would also be a possible comp for Raji.

On your last sentence, value is relative. You're telling me a Casey Hampton-type DT isn't worth a top ten pick? That's absurd given the lack of blue chip talent in this draft. There are few OTs that could be really good, but many teams at the top already have left tackles, so they would essentially be drafting a right tackle with a top 5/10 pick. That is poor value.

I thought you were implying Hampton was ap laymaker, but yes Raji can be a casey hampton type guy, If he has the heart for it.

Value is relative, but #2 overall pick value isn't. The highest value a 3-4 team can get themselves on defense is through drafting a pass rushing OLB, and they usually don't get picked until the 11-20 range, and afterwards then comes the NT, and NTs don't make enough plays or have enough of an overall impact on the game to be deserving of a top 10 pick. You can have a very good NT in the draft later on, wheras the chances of drafting some positions (that are often taken in the top 10) in the later rounds and getting a gem are little. In this draft, St.Louis has needs at positions that are of much more importance than their DT and those positions are a lot more talented at the top than DT is with BJ raji.

With the whole OT thing, Detroit doesn't have A LT, St.Louis' left tackle is old (and Alex barron is a bum), Cincy doesn't have a LT, Oakland doesn't have one, JAcksonville doesn't have one.. and so forth. 7/10 of the top 10 teams arguably have a need for a LT. so your argument there falls..

The bottom line is BJ raji is not enough of a game changer to be picked in the top 10..Even playmakers like Ngata don't get picked in the top 10..

bernbabybern820
02-28-2009, 05:08 PM
I thought you were implying Hampton was ap laymaker, but yes Raji can be a casey hampton type guy, If he has the heart for it.

Value is relative, but #2 overall pick value isn't. The highest value a 3-4 team can get themselves on defense is through drafting a pass rushing OLB, and they usually don't get picked until the 11-20 range, and afterwards then comes the NT, and NTs don't make enough plays or have enough of an overall impact on the game to be deserving of a top 10 pick. You can have a very good NT in the draft later on, wheras the chances of drafting some positions (that are often taken in the top 10) in the later rounds and getting a gem are little. In this draft, St.Louis has needs at positions that are of much more importance than their DT and those positions are a lot more talented at the top than DT is with BJ raji.

With the whole OT thing, Detroit doesn't have A LT, St.Louis' left tackle is old (and Alex barron is a bum), Cincy doesn't have a LT, Oakland doesn't have one, JAcksonville doesn't have one.. and so forth. 7/10 of the top 10 teams arguably have a need for a LT. so your argument there falls..

The bottom line is BJ raji is not enough of a game changer to be picked in the top 10..Even playmakers like Ngata don't get picked in the top 10..

WTF? So if Ware, Merriman, or Ngata were in the draft would GMs not pick them because they dont get picked inside the top ten? Especially how the 3-4 is evolving, im pretty sure teams wouldn't make that mistake anymore.

635
02-28-2009, 05:14 PM
WTF? So if Ware, Merriman, or Ngata were in the draft would GMs not pick them because they dont get picked inside the top ten? Especially how the 3-4 is evolving, im pretty sure teams wouldn't make that mistake anymore.

IF players similar to ware, merriman, and ngata were in this draft, then most likely they wouldn't, speaking from recent histo0ry. You can't use the argument on players who are great, seeing as we didn't know how good they would be when they were drafted

nepg
03-01-2009, 08:14 AM
People keep calling him a space eater, but Raji is much more of a playmaker (despite being able to eat space and hold blockers)... 8 sacks and 16 TFL's is a playmaker...
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jbphburg
03-01-2009, 08:21 AM
I don't think Raji is worth a very high pick, he's more of a red chip prospect, solid but unspectacular. Moving down might make the most sense for the Rams if they can find a taker. Crabtree might not be a bad way to go.