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Splat
02-27-2009, 08:34 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1057650.html

"Chiefs Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters asked the organization Thursday to release or trade him this offseason, according to a source with knowledge of the situation."

"Waters asked for his release two days after a brief meeting with new head coach Todd Haley and after being told by first-time general manager Scott Pioli that he had no interest in meeting with Waters, the source said."

Just freaking great start a line to your left if you want out...

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
02-27-2009, 08:36 AM
It is KC what do you expect.

Splat
02-27-2009, 08:42 AM
"According to the source, Waters flew to Kansas City specifically to meet with Haley and Pioli and hear their plan for the direction of the organization. Pioli declined to meet with Waters, saying they had nothing to discuss, the source said. And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said."

Just wow.

Gay Ork Wang
02-27-2009, 08:53 AM
well, the lions didnt

HawkeyeFan
02-27-2009, 08:56 AM
Haha I love that quote from Haley.


I wish Spagnuolo would say crap like that :(

T-RICH49
02-27-2009, 09:01 AM
strike one on the Pioli/Haley combo

kmartin575
02-27-2009, 09:12 AM
I would want out of town too. We have one of the cheapest owners in the NFL, completely unwilling to dish out free agent money. This team is going to be in the gutter for the next decade.

bored of education
02-27-2009, 09:23 AM
Haley is awesome. He is honest. The team sucked.

JFLO
02-27-2009, 09:28 AM
I don't understand how Piloi can have no interest in telling the teams possible leader what the direction the team is going.

He should at least tell him if they are moving on without him or not...I can't stand when GMs or VP of Operations do this kind of stuff, it just boils more water in the pot.

NY+Giants=NYG
02-27-2009, 09:39 AM
sounds like haley's a real winner. countdown to him being fired halfway through the season when your entire team revolts against him?

Reminds me of Saban. Saban was an arrogant SOB too who talked AT his players.

Crickett
02-27-2009, 09:42 AM
"According to the source, Waters flew to Kansas City specifically to meet with Haley and Pioli and hear their plan for the direction of the organization. Pioli declined to meet with Waters, saying they had nothing to discuss, the source said. And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said."

Just wow.

If I were a player who wanted off of a pro team and the coach said that, my reply would be "then why don't you trade me and stick one of them at guard?"

LJ wants out, Gonzalez wants out, Brian Waters wants out, I'm noticing a trend here.

ShutDwn
02-27-2009, 09:45 AM
How can this be spun as a good thing? You shouldn't treat players like that unless they are real problems, no your leader.

They have failed in the first part of getting the players to buy in. Nothing says we care about you guys like treating Waters like crap. Haley needs to find a balance soon, cause his attitude doesn't work often with a rebuilding team. Don't get me wrong, you can be a hard ass, but you must have the leaders on your side.

bored of education
02-27-2009, 09:50 AM
Well Haley said the last person he has to worry about is Branden Albert. High praise of one player..its a start lol

Basileus777
02-27-2009, 09:51 AM
LJ wants out, Gonzalez wants out, Brian Waters wants out, I'm noticing a trend here.

Yep, the team if full of cry-babies who were pampered by Vermeil and Herm. LJ and Gonzo did all their complaining before Haley was even hired.

Splat
02-27-2009, 09:53 AM
Yep, the team if full of cry-babies who were pampered by Vermeil and Herm. LJ and Gonzo did all their complaining before Haley was even hired.

Ya wanting a sit down to talk face to face with your HC and GM is way to much to ask what a big baby...:rolleyes:

nepg
02-27-2009, 09:54 AM
The Chiefs have traditionally gone with the same model the Steelers use. Sign your own, get your homework done on the draft, then worry about free agents if you have any holes left on your roster. It's a great philosophy that works.

Unfortunately, Carl drafted like dog ****, made terrible moves in the draft (e.g. not taking New Orleans' offer to move back to 10 last year), and has chosen to re-sign the wrong guys at the completely wrong times (e.g. giving LJ a giant contract instead of trading him two years ago).

The Chiefs are going from a complete player's coach to a team coach. There's going to be guys who want to leave, and there's going to be guys who previously wanted out, but now want to stay. It's only natural.

A lot of players, like Waters, are used to a hands-on personnel guy like Carl Peterson. Pioli is very hands-off (as far as dealing with players already under contract goes). That's Haley's job, and they work closely together. Players aren't going to be able to be in contact with Pioli like they were with Peterson. Especially not during the draft evaluation and free agency period...

I love Waters, but if he doesn't want to be a team leader and help get the rest of the team on board with H&P through this change, he needs to go.
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The_Dude
02-27-2009, 09:57 AM
This whole trend of veteran players feeling "disrespected" by new coaches has run its course with me..... annoying.

Shut up and play.

Splat
02-27-2009, 10:01 AM
I love Waters, but if he doesn't want to be a team leader and help get the rest of the team on board with H&P through this change, he needs to go.

And replace him with who?

I guess we are going to draft seven starters this year give me break.

I'm all for the team first stuff but that doesn't mean you blow players off like this the whole thing was not handled well at all.

Basileus777
02-27-2009, 10:06 AM
Ya wanting a sit down to talk face to face with your HC and GM is way to much to ask what a big baby...:rolleyes:

We have no idea what really happened. Are we supposed to believe that Haley walked up to a player in the hallway and said that 22 players off the street can win 2 games without provocation? We have one report, from Jason Whitlock of all people, with some information from Waters.

Besides, it's a new organization. Players don't have the right to show up unannounced wanting a personal meeting with the GM to discuss the direction of the team.

PACKmanN
02-27-2009, 10:14 AM
"According to the source, Waters flew to Kansas City specifically to meet with Haley and Pioli and hear their plan for the direction of the organization. Pioli declined to meet with Waters, saying they had nothing to discuss, the source said. And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said."

Just wow.

There is nothing wrong with that. He telling his players a bunch of random players can win 2 games, but it takes a team to win a championchip. I love his attuide.

nepg
02-27-2009, 10:25 AM
I think it's funny that someone's defending an offensive guard who hasn't won anything over new leadership that has 3 rings to its name.

Waters wants to mee with Pioli...that's not how it works. Haley is in charge of the players, that's who Waters needs to talk to.

I love the idiot Chiefs fans (not all Chiefs fans, just the idiot ones) calling for Haley and Pioli's heads as if they're ruining their precious 2-win team. Give me a break... Who are the going to replace Waters with? Does it matter? They couldn't block anyone last year anyway. They've got one of the best OL coaches in football, with plenty of resources to find an offensive ******* guard.

The Patriots won all but one of their Super Bowls with one of the worst lines in the NFL (Brandon Gorin, people, Brandon Gorin), the Cardinals almost won the Super Bowl with one of the worst lines in the NFL... They're not worried about Brian Waters...
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T-RICH49
02-27-2009, 10:27 AM
I would want out of town too. We have one of the cheapest owners in the NFL, completely unwilling to dish out free agent money. This team is going to be in the gutter for the next decade.

wow you could not be more wrong.how do you know for sure Clark is not willing to spend $$ to improve the team?simple you DON'T

Splat
02-27-2009, 10:32 AM
How do you know for sure Clark is not willing to spend $$ to improve the team?

Maybe because he hasn't since he took over as owner?

nepg
02-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Ya, he didn't spend big bucks on the guy in your avatar/sig...

You do realize Carl Peterson had open access to the Hunt bank account, right? The only decision about the Chiefs not made by Peterson was Peterson getting canned, and the only decision Hunt's made since then is to sign Pioli to take over making decisions. The Hunts spend as much money as the GM needs them to spend. This isn't baseball...
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bored of education
02-27-2009, 10:39 AM
I liek the reports becasue Vermiel and Herm ran such a patty cake regime..look where that got them.

Splat
02-27-2009, 10:42 AM
Ya, he didn't spend big bucks on the guy in your avatar/sig...

You do realize Carl Peterson had open access to the Hunt bank account, right? The only decision about the Chiefs not made by Peterson was Peterson getting canned, and the only decision Hunt's made since then is to sign Pioli to take over making decisions. The Hunts spend as much money as the GM needs them to spend. This isn't baseball...

And wants again Carl Peterson takes all the blame and Clark Hunt gets a free pass no body wants us to be the Skins but a little spending would be nice.

As much as I like SP the guy is never going to see the field as Herm would say "You Got To Have The Players".

bored of education
02-27-2009, 10:43 AM
In Pioli Boezo Trusts!

nepg
02-27-2009, 10:46 AM
Peterson could've spent all he wanted to. He had the full cap at his disposal.
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Splat
02-27-2009, 10:48 AM
Peterson could've spent all he wanted to. He had the full cap at his disposal.

Well guess what Carl is gone and still nothing whats that tell you?

nepg
02-27-2009, 11:26 AM
and haley told waters he wasn't any better than some guy off the streets. but it's cute how you took about half a sentence of my post and responded as if that were the entirety of the argument. but then didn't bother quoting it because you knew you'd look like an idiot. haley just told one of your best players, and a guy who's been a team player for YEARS, that he's basically trash. and you think that's the proper way to run a team?

:rolleyes:

at least haley's won a lot of super bowls in his career.

I didn't quote your previous post because the whole thing was moronic.

Your taking a supposed quote from Haley and saying he was suggesting that Waters was crap, is just stupid. You have no idea what was actually discussed. You, sir, are a flat-out idiot.

Pioli meets with players to discuss contracts. Since Waters doesn't have a contract issue, he has nothing to discuss with Pioli. Want to talk about respect? How about the player trying to bypass his position coach, coordinator, and head coach to talk to the GM?

Having a proper chain of command, and an organized organization is the proper way to run a team. The Chiefs are doing things the right way now. Waters' first conversation should have been with his new position coach and Chan Gailey, not Haley, and certainly not Pioli (unless he wanted to reneg his contract or ask for a trade). If he really wanted an appointment with Haley & Pioli, he should have called first.
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XxXdragonXxX
02-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Hey Brian...come play for Seattle, with your former OL coach Mike Solari.

bored of education
02-27-2009, 12:04 PM
Hey Brian...come play for Seattle, with your former OL coach Mike Solari.

Brian has not been the same without an HoFer next to him. KC will take a 4th round pick please :D

vidae
02-27-2009, 12:05 PM
Brian Waters has been one of the only solid spots at his position on this team for years. He's been a team leader. He has helped this team out tremendously, but a leader doesn't pout when they don't get their way, they stay solid for the good of his teammates and he's obviously not doing that.

And you should take this report with a grain of salt. Jason Whitlock is a moron most of the time.

ShutDwn
02-27-2009, 12:50 PM
Brian Waters has been one of the only solid spots at his position on this team for years. He's been a team leader. He has helped this team out tremendously, but a leader doesn't pout when they don't get their way, they stay solid for the good of his teammates and he's obviously not doing that.

And you should take this report with a grain of salt. Jason Whitlock is a moron most of the time.

He has a right to be treated with more respect than what he was though.

Part of being a leader is getting people on board and making them believe in your mission. Refusing to talk to him, and telling him that anyone could win two games isn't going to get him on board.

Save the hard ass act for training camp. Everything is about first impressions and Waters didn't get a very good impression of the new guys in charge.

I don't think anyone would be too happy if they just were treated like that, would they?

Coaches can be hard on guys, but I don't think they should disrespect their players. Oh, but of course this is the Parcells way right?

nepg
02-27-2009, 12:58 PM
because you didn't have anything relevant to actually say, as we'll soon see.

You're an idiot.

i'm taking a sourced quote from the article and referencing it. i fail to see why you have a problem with that, except that it makes your coach look like an egotistical idiot. i have no idea what was actually discussed? true. however, i'm discussing an article that states, via a source, WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. i could just as accurately call you an idiot for suggesting that i'm wrong, since you DON"T KNOW WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. however, i prefer to stick with what was given here as evidence.

You're taking the source quote, which says that Haley said that. No one knows who the source actually is, so yes, Haley supposedly said that. Then you went and tried to skew what he said into something else.

please quote ANYTHING in the article that suggests he tried to "bypass" haley to talk to pioli. the article ACTUALLY says he wanted to meet with both:

"According to the source, Waters flew to Kansas City specifically to meet with Haley and Pioli and hear their plan for the direction of the organization."

do you have difficulty with the word AND, or do you just not have any bloody idea what AND means? :rolleyes:

He doesn't need to talk to Pioli. Pioli isn't going to be included in any kind of conversation with a contracted player about the direction of the team. That's not the player's place. He can try to talk to the head coach, but shouldn't expect great feedback because it's highly unlikely they've even hammered all of the team direction details out with the coaching staff. If Waters really wanted to get an idea of where he fits into the team's plans, he should have talked with Muir and Gailey first.

Waters may be a team leader, but the bottom line is that he's a guard. Going in for an impromptu meeting with the GM & HC in the middle of free agency and draft evaluation is not his place. Unless he's got a problem with his contract or wants out of town, he shouldn't have showed up. Phone calls are a nice way to find out about things, like your position coach's phone number.

And, anyway, Haley had a conversation with Waters beyond that remark. For some reason, people focus on the remark (which is true) and selectively forget that there was more conversation (about what? unknown). I don't see where the disrespect part comes in...

but it's a cute strawman, considering i haven't once discussed waters wanting to meet his new head coach and GM, yet you keep bringing it up like that's actually the argument that i have against haley. please learn how to read, THEN hit the post/submit reply button.

Again, complete idiot. I addressed your retardation already (you know, the part where you take a supposed remark and put your own little spin on it to make it say something it wasn't saying in the first place to say Haley dissed Waters), and backed it by stating why it's Waters who's being disrespectful or just stupid (take your pick).
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nepg
02-27-2009, 01:02 PM
He has a right to be treated with more respect than what he was though.

Part of being a leader is getting people on board and making them believe in your mission. Refusing to talk to him, and telling him that anyone could win two games isn't going to get him on board.

Save the hard ass act for training camp. Everything is about first impressions and Waters didn't get a very good impression of the new guys in charge.

I don't think anyone would be too happy if they just were treated like that, would they?

Coaches can be hard on guys, but I don't think they should disrespect their players. Oh, but of course this is the Parcells way right?

Haley didn't refuse to talk to him. They talked. Pioli didn't talk to him because it'd be redundant and a waste of time.
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Nitschke-Hawk
02-27-2009, 01:12 PM
There is nothing wrong with that. He telling his players a bunch of random players can win 2 games, but it takes a team to win a championchip. I love his attuide.

Yeah, if you have a reputation as a head coach. Arrogant guys like Parcells, Belichick can say this. But Haley is building a reputation as a douche.

Shahin
02-27-2009, 01:34 PM
Damn, didn't even know Waters' was still playing. Him + Roaf = dominance.

Brodeur
02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
Damn, didn't even know Waters' was still playing. Him + Roaf = dominance.

What did you think he retired? He just turned 32.

nepg
02-27-2009, 05:49 PM
It's easy to confuse Waters with Shields.
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nepg
02-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Seriously?

:rolleyes:

"my argument is so illogical, that all i can do is call you names!!1 wah!!!"

well done.


You started it. F'n Downie. And it's not a name, it's a label that you've earned.

gosh, you're right! i'm going with the article that was quoted that is under discussion! zomg! and no, i didn't. he said "we could've won more than 2 games with 22 guys off the street. implying 22 guys off the street would've been better than what the chiefs had. implying that 1 guy off the street is better than any chiefs starter. i know this must be a difficult stretch for you to make.

That's a giant stretch because that's not what Haley was saying at all. Again, you're an idiot. You're probably too stupid to know you were spinning what you read to say what you wanted it to say, so you could go on being an idiot.

what the HELL does any of that have to do with:

...

What doesn't it have to do with it? Haley "AND" Pioli...Pioli has no business with Waters, especially not while he's on the phone 24/7 right now trying to improve the team. You're so stupid, I'm really just replying to see how much dumber you can get.


and you know he didn't how, exactly?

Because it's obvious he didn't do that, otherwise he wouldn't be in the situation he's in now.

How did you know that Haley was implying that Brian Waters is crap by that supposed quote?

yeah, what a prick. how DARE he take 10 minutes away from pioli/haley's carefully scripted offseason to find out where the team is headed. how is it "not his place"? because pioli said so? where? or are you just inventing team policy again?

That's how it's done with the Patriots, Dolphins, Steelers, Giants, and any other decently run team in the NFL. Players have no business in the GM's office unless they're talking about contracts. Yes, Waters is stupid for trying to interupt Pioli for something stupid like that on the cusp of open free agency.

prove there was further conversation. prove that anything else was said. quote it.

It says it right there in the goddamn article you keep skewing, you F'ing r-e-t-a-r-d.

what? i said haley was disrespecting waters. which he was. now all you want to talk about is how waters didn't go through the proper channels to talk to pioli??? again, remind me how that was ever connected.


realistically, all your posts demonstrate is a complete inability to read and/or comprehend basic english. i would strongly suggest you spend more than 6 seconds trying to read THIS post before you make yet another string of incoherent arguments where your best "point" is calling me an idiot (i'd further like to point you to the rules posted in the announcements section).

cheers.[/QUOTE]

Your whole "Haley disrespected Waters" is all your own personal spin on a quote that probably wasn't even said in the harmless context it was presented in by the source. You created some elaborate crap story out of thin air that Haley figuratively shat on Waters, which just simply did not happen.

If you'd go back and READ. Because you were so anxious to bash Haley & Pioli (who both have a history of winning and know how a successful organization is run) I countered this ignorance of yours by saying that you could say Waters is disrespecting Haley and Pioli (and he actually is) by bypassing chain of command and then going public with a trade/release request.

ROFL @ this ******. Please post more.
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Brodeur
02-27-2009, 10:21 PM
So basically what you're saying is that if a guy is one of the organization's best players for nine years and then when he meets a new coach for the first time and is disrespected by the asshole, then he should just shut up and not be offended by it?

nepg
02-28-2009, 07:23 AM
So basically what you're saying is that if a guy is one of the organization's best players for nine years and then when he meets a new coach for the first time and is disrespected by the asshole, then he should just shut up and not be offended by it?

He didn't say Waters was crap. He said 22 guys off the street can win 2 games. That doesn't imply anything against Waters. If Waters was offended, it was more likely because he felt Haley insulted his teammates, not because Waters himself felt disrespected.

More likely, it wasn't even that comment that triggered Waters to want out of KC. It was probably another aspect of the team's direction. Haley's probably a pretty abrasive guy. He grew up with the Chuck Noll Steelers and his coaching career is nothing but working under the Noll and Parcells coaching trees. He's a team and organizational coach. He's the kind of coach that you have to work hard for to not be on his bad side, he doesn't take crap from any player trying to talk as if they're equals.
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Gay Ork Wang
02-28-2009, 07:42 AM
that absolutelys says: what u did last year was ********, even a guy from the streets could accomplish what u guys did. u guys are nothing, really nothing special and actually replaceable

nepg
02-28-2009, 08:01 AM
Well, it's the truth. Brandon Albert took it well. Everyone on that line other than Albert can be replaced. Including Waters if he really wants to push this. They couldn't block anybody. They had to go to a high school offense to get any plays off.
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Gay Ork Wang
02-28-2009, 08:07 AM
Well, it's the truth. Brandon Albert took it well. Everyone on that line other than Albert can be replaced. Including Waters if he really wants to push this. They couldn't block anybody. They had to go to a high school offense to get any plays off.
u really think, some guys from the street could do better than they did? u really think that was the right thing to say?

nepg
02-28-2009, 08:21 AM
With the right coaches and organization, yes, 22 guys off the street can win 2+ games. Hell, the 2000 Patriots won a Super Bowl with mostly off-the-street guys.

Which is another point to this. Belichick was the same way when he got to New England. Rubbed players the wrong way, started getting rid of fan favorites like Ben Coates and Drew Bledsoe, alienated Terry Glenn... Haley's the same type of coach. Once he gets players that buy into what he's doing, things will flow much more smoothly.

Chiefs fans really shouldn't get too up-in-arms here... I didn't like Belichick much. They released my favorite player (Ben Coates), and I didn't like the way they handled the Terry Glenn situation. But things worked out because he and Pioli knew wtf they were doing.
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Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 12:00 PM
^ Beat me to it. Same thing happened in NE for the first couple years. Lawyer Milloy, Ben Coates, Drew Bledsoe....the list goes on. Some players aren't going to like it, but thats how its done. Some players thrive in that type of system (and it starts with Pioli), and some don't. Waters is a good guard, but if he doesn't fit into that system, then he shouldn't be there. New regime brings new players and brings alot of personnel change.

Gay Ork Wang
02-28-2009, 12:09 PM
^ Beat me to it. Same thing happened in NE for the first couple years. Lawyer Milloy, Ben Coates, Drew Bledsoe....the list goes on. Some players aren't going to like it, but thats how its done. Some players thrive in that type of system (and it starts with Pioli), and some don't. Waters is a good guard, but if he doesn't fit into that system, then he shouldn't be there. New regime brings new players and brings alot of personnel change.
wait wait wait, who the **** talked about him not being right in the system? it didnt have anything to do with that **** at all.

Anyone who believes that you can win with 22 guys off the street is an idiot. There are teams over and over again every year that hardly win 2 games.

2000 Patriots had the ******* future HoF Tom Brady.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:29 PM
I love Haley already..Greatest quote of all-time...Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Waters...You're overrated and if you're not going to buy into the system, then we don't need you.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:36 PM
wait wait wait, who the **** talked about him not being right in the system? it didnt have anything to do with that **** at all.

Anyone who believes that you can win with 22 guys off the street is an idiot. There are teams over and over again every year that hardly win 2 games.

2000 Patriots had the ******* future HoF Tom Brady.

6th round picks can basically be quantified as "off the street". That team was built of mostly veteran free agents that no one else wanted.
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adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:50 PM
"Individuals go to Pro Bowls. Teams win Championships."

Gay Ork Wang
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
6th round picks can basically be quantified as "off the street". That team was built of mostly veteran free agents that no one else wanted.
so a future HoF can win more than 2 games? NO **** REALLY?

when u talk about off the streets guys u talk about Free Agents, like the office guys that the seahawks had to sign a few years ago for their secondary.

If u really believe that, then ****, there is nothing to argue with you about.

Haley has done **** yet and just ***** with a better player on the team. Great Strategy

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:28 PM
This story is awesome. Sorry Waters, I love ya, but we're doing things differently now. You're either with us or you're against us.

This article by Bob Gretz spells it out perfectly:

http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/waters-learns-it%E2%80%99s-a-new-chiefs-world.html

Waters Learns It’s A New Chiefs World
February 27, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Brian Waters gets failing grades for his first two tests in what is the brave new world of the Kansas City Chiefs.

The veteran guard failed to understand the message that was sent to him by Scott Pioli and Todd Haley.

And then he failed again when he apparently blabbed about his frustration and emotions and the information landed in the hands of Jason Whitlock and the Kansas City Star.

We hate to link to the Star for anything because they absolutely refuse to admit this site even exists. But if you haven’t read the story of an unhappy Brian Waters, then click here. We’ll provide a better written short version.

Waters did not like what he heard at the Pro Bowl about his new head coach. Gossip around the hotel pool with guys from the Arizona Cardinals was that Haley could be aloof and difficult to deal with. Waters decided to come to Kansas City and hear straight from the guys in charge what their plans are for this team.

According to the story, Pioli would not give him a meeting and Haley only had time to chat as they walked down a hallway in the team’s offices. Reportedly Haley told Waters that he could have gone out and gotten 22 guys off the street and won two games.

This attitude or in Whitlock’s word “arrogance” angered Waters and he then tried to contact Clark Hunt, who apparently would not take his call. That’s when Waters on Thursday called Haley and asked that the team to trade him.

Now Whitlock’s story does not quote Waters by name, and says the information came from someone with “knowledge of the situation.” Generally, that’s a player’s agent in that role. But Waters does not have an agent; he handles his contract stuff himself. So it’s pretty plain thanks to the detail in the narrative that the source of the information in the story is Waters himself, or someone Waters had spoken to in great detail. It’s either him or Haley and I think we are on very safe ground knowing it was not the head coach.

So, let’s say that everything in the story is accurate, at least to how Waters viewed what went down in the Chiefs offices. What should the average fan take from this?

I think the average fan already knows what Waters found out: that the whole world at Arrowhead has been turned upside down. The old way of doing things is out the door, and that goes for all facets of the operation.

Waters believed that as a nine-year veteran, team captain, Pro Bowler, team player rep and all-around locker room lawyer, he had the cache to walk in and get answers from those new guys in charge.

What he found out was that at Pioli and Haley’s poker table, he had no chips, he had no stake, he had no pull.

And from the view of Pioli/Haley, why should they spend even a minute talking with Waters right now? There are more important things to worry about like free agency, deciding on an offense, deciding on a defense, and preparing for the draft.

Plus, all they know is Brian Waters has been a starter on a team that has gone 6-26 in the last two seasons. What kind of answers does he have? What can they learn from him? Pioli can pull out three Super Bowl rings from his desk. How many winning post-season games has Waters played in? The answer would be none.

Whether this is the best way to handle players and people will be shown over the coming months and years. Pioli and Haley could have been more polite and handled Waters as if he was an asset that they still have available to them. But they are creating a new culture around the Chiefs and the way Waters was handled was likely done for a reason.

You can bet that Pioli/Haley have been told that Waters is a team leader. So they wanted to make sure the team leader got the message that things were going to be very different around the Chiefs. Whether it was done consciously or not, you can bet those two wanted to see how Waters handled the situation. They wanted to see if he could be their kind of leader.

And there were two ways Waters could have gone. He could have gone home, picked up the phone, called his teammates and told them “Boys, this is a brave new world and you had better buckle up and get to work because things have changed completely.”

Or he could have gone home, tried to go over the head of the new guys and then decided he didn’t want any part of the situation. To make sure the message was driven home, the whole thing was leaked so it could be made public.

For Pioli and Haley, their message still got out. Other players will hear of Waters’ story and quickly realize that things are very different around the Chiefs. Less established players will note how their buddy B-Dub was handled.

Brian Waters has always come across as a pretty sharp guy, and there’s no debating he’s been an asset to the team both on and off the field. But he missed the mark on this situation completely.

What he is soon to learn, just as Tony Gonzalez learned last year and just as Larry Johnson will learn as well, is that a player can’t fire a team. One of the things a player gives up when they receive those millions of dollars from management is the right to decide where and for whom they play. Waters can change that by staying home and forfeiting the millions. He has that right.

But his football future will be decided by the guy who wouldn’t have a meeting with him and the guy that apparently offended him.

It will be decided by two guys that gave him a test that he failed.

Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 01:31 PM
wait wait wait, who the **** talked about him not being right in the system? it didnt have anything to do with that **** at all.

Anyone who believes that you can win with 22 guys off the street is an idiot. There are teams over and over again every year that hardly win 2 games.

2000 Patriots had the ******* future HoF Tom Brady.

Not same playing system, same system for running the organization

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:43 PM
This story is awesome. Sorry Waters, I love ya, but we're doing things differently now. You're either with us or you're against us.

This article by Bob Gretz spells it out perfectly:

http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-footb...efs-world.html

Exactly my point.
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