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ATLDirtyBirds
02-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Saw it on NLFN ticker.

Geo
02-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Big news.

Too bad for Tyler Thigpen.

Also, too bad the Pats didn't get stuck with Cassel.

The Dynasty
02-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Yeah its on the front page of nfl.com

This is pretty huge I wonder what they gave up to get him..

PACKmanN
02-28-2009, 11:53 AM
lol, Cassel= fail.

Geo
02-28-2009, 11:54 AM
Their early 2nd round pick, and maybe another pick next year?

Xonraider
02-28-2009, 11:54 AM
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zCaddyz
02-28-2009, 11:54 AM
good i didnt want the bucs to pick him up

NY+Giants=NYG
02-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Wow that is a ballsy move by KC.

senormysterioso
02-28-2009, 11:56 AM
swap firsts and a 3rd or 2nd next year probably?

Geo
02-28-2009, 11:57 AM
I wonder if Thigpen gets traded now, there could very well be a team or two interested.

Don Vito
02-28-2009, 11:57 AM
Big news. Cassel did great for us but we have Brady coming back and invested an early pick in O'Connell last year, this move made sense for both teams. I will always pull for Cassel, curious to see what we got for him.

nepg
02-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Great move for both teams. Thigpen is white hot trash. I figured they'd keep him since they kept Gailey, but he really cannot read a defense or go through progressions...

Gonzo & Bowe isn't far from Welker & Moss, and it's not like the Pats' line was a shining star last year. The Chiefs are looking pretty good...they just need to load up on 3-4 DL's and OLB's, make a couple tweaks to the OL, and add another receiving threat.
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senormysterioso
02-28-2009, 11:58 AM
I could see the Buccaneers moving for Thigpen. They seem to want no part in this years draft with all the picks they're moving.

bam bam
02-28-2009, 11:59 AM
I wonder if Thigpen gets traded now, there could very well be a team or two interested.

Lol .

critesy
02-28-2009, 11:59 AM
cheifs better change their offense to slants and screens or it will be fail.

thebow305
02-28-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm kind of surprised by the move. I thought with Gailey and the spread returning, that Thigpen would get the chance to improve on his solid performances towards the end of last season.

I wonder if Tony Gonzalez is part of the deal? Brian Waters? Grandmama?

zCaddyz
02-28-2009, 12:02 PM
i still cant belive the thigpen td on us.

PACKmanN
02-28-2009, 12:02 PM
swap firsts and a 3rd or 2nd next year probably?

lol, what a way to over value him.

Young Legend
02-28-2009, 12:04 PM
I really don't know about this move.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm kind of surprised by the move. I thought with Gailey and the spread returning

The spread isn't returning. Gailey is still the OC, but we are implementing Haley's offensive system.

If it is a 2nd rounder, I can live with it.

Halsey
02-28-2009, 12:07 PM
We'll find out real fast how good a GM Pioli is. There were people calling Brady a one year wonder when he took over and led the Patriots to a Super Bowl, so who knows with Cassel.

LonghornsLegend
02-28-2009, 12:13 PM
I hope Kc plans to run alot of Shotgun, I don't remember Cassell operating much from under center, and he certainly won't have the type of options through the air that the Pats did...They still need a legit slot WR, and a RB of the future, I think they should look at Jennings or Andre Brown in the middle rounds to replace LJ and split with Charles.

Gay Ork Wang
02-28-2009, 12:13 PM
i still think Matt Cassel is a fluke

Matthew Jones
02-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Cassel is a solid starter in the NFL and I was extremely impressed with him last year. Good luck to him in the future, and smart move by Pioli to get a quarterback before trying to rebuild a team. History has shown us that teams rebuild much faster with a quarterback (Brees, Ryan, Pennington, etc.), and Pioli got his guy.

Smokey Joe
02-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Sucks for Thigpen...

Probably the chiefs 2nd rounder this year, and a conditional 3rd next year.

gramage
02-28-2009, 12:19 PM
I like Cassel and think he'll do pretty well, but I thought Thigpen could be solid and they could have drafted and developed their own young QB, so I don't see this as a great trade. I'll be interested to see whether they focus on adding offence around Cassel now or work more on the defence and hope Cassel was the missing link.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:21 PM
Sounds like Chiefs 2nd + '10 conditional pick for Vrabel and Cassel

Thiago
02-28-2009, 12:21 PM
Mike Florio says the Chiefs are giving this years draft 3rd overall pick. :confused: Two second rounders make sense, but I'll just have to wait to see what really happens.

Geo
02-28-2009, 12:22 PM
The only guy you should put stock in is Adam Schefter, who broke the story in the first place.

The Dynasty
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
Mike Florio says the Chiefs are giving this years draft 3rd overall pick. :confused: Two second rounders make sense, but I'll just have to wait to see what really happens.

Well he is assuming in that article so its nothing definite.


It's easy to assume that the Chiefs gave up the No. 3 overall pick in the draft, but the Pats aren't the kind of team that would want to pay the kind of huge-money contract that the third overall slot commands.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
If you watch Cassel's tape, it's quite obvious he's more than just a fill-in with good weapons around him. The slants and screens are a staple of New England's offense, but Cassel actually throws a great deep ball. The Pats opened up the offense more and more as the season went along, and Cassel performed very well. It took them a few years to open the offense up with Brady...

I bet Haley orgasmed when he saw the ball Moss dropped in the snow... I've never seen a prettier deep ball than that one (snow or not). Perfect arc, perfect spiral, perfectly placed, and hit Moss in-stride...
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princefielder28
02-28-2009, 12:24 PM
Sounds like Chiefs 2nd + '10 conditional pick for Vrabel and Cassel

That would make the most sense

RaiderNation
02-28-2009, 12:24 PM
I thought the Raiders had a decent chance at winning the AFC West. With all the moves the Donks and KC are doing

ATLDirtyBirds
02-28-2009, 12:25 PM
The only guy you should put stock in is Adam Schefter, who broke the story in the first place.


I'm pretty sure I broke the story.

Hines
02-28-2009, 12:27 PM
If it is Cassel and Vrabel for a second and a 2010 third, I think the Chiefs may have gotten the better deal. I don't really like Cassel, but I think he has a good running back in LJ(if his legal stuff is worked out), a great tight end, and a rising superstar at WR. Give him a little better offensive line and he could succeed there.

jnew76
02-28-2009, 12:28 PM
UH-OH Schefter is now reporting there is another team involved and not everything is in place just yet.

The Dynasty
02-28-2009, 12:29 PM
UH-OH Schefter is now reporting there is another team involved and not everything is in place just yet.

Yeah Im watching this now..A Mysterious team might be getting cassel but they dont know who.

Xonraider
02-28-2009, 12:30 PM
UH-OH Schefter is now reporting there is another team involved and not everything is in place just yet.

Betcha its Minnesota

btw I was watching the top 10 most controversial calls but then it got replaced by this :(

The Dynasty
02-28-2009, 12:31 PM
Betcha its Minnesota

btw I was watching the top 10 most controversial calls but then it got replaced by this :(

No thanks, They are speculating that it could be Lions or Niners but they are still expecting him to be traded to KC.

jnew76
02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Cassel might be the most sought after young QB I have seen in a long time. A lot of teams really like him, that is evident.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Minnesota always makes sense when you're talking about KC. The collude on so many deals... That's right, I used the word "collude".
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jballa838
02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Xon, #1 is in your avy. The Tom Brady Tuck Rule.

and didnt Minnesota sign Rosenfels?

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Sounds like a smokescreen to me, IMO

vikes_28
02-28-2009, 12:32 PM
The vikings will trade you a 6th for Tyler Thingpen. :D

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:33 PM
The vikings will trade you a 6th for Tyler Thingpen. :D

Nah...We'll just place him on waivers and put him on the practice squad...Oh wait...

Geo
02-28-2009, 12:33 PM
Minnesota just got Rosenfels, they wouldn't have made that move first if they were going to go for Cassel.

I wouldn't be surprised if the other team is Carolina. Delhomme has a year left until FA and sucks right now, but they are a QB away from getting back to the NFCCG and John Fox needs to win a playoff game to save his job. They don't have a first round pick this year, and Julius Peppers doesn't want to play there anymore.

ChezPower4
02-28-2009, 12:35 PM
OUCH!!!! He's going to get a big deal too and suck it up Matt Cassel=Rob Johnson

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 12:37 PM
Mike Reiss of the Boston Herald says that the paperwork has been filed with the league.

Peter King also says it's done. Cassel and Vrabel for our 2nd rounder.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...l/?eref=sircrc (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/28/chiefs.trade.for.cassel/?eref=sircrc)

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:40 PM
So who do the Chiefs take at 3? Crabtree? Curry?

GBahDunka
02-28-2009, 12:41 PM
i dont really see them taking curry or crabtree.

maybe a tackle

Geo
02-28-2009, 12:42 PM
Mike Reiss of the Boston Herald says that the paperwork has been filed with the league.

Peter King also says it's done. Cassel and Vrabel for our 2nd rounder.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...l/?eref=sircrc (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/02/28/chiefs.trade.for.cassel/?eref=sircrc)
That moron King might know, considering he lives on the inside rim of the Patriots' collective asshole.

If all the Chiefs had to give up was their 2nd round pick, for both Cassel and Vrabel, that's not too bad.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
i dont really see them taking curry or crabtree.

maybe a tackle

A RT at #3? Not likely.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
i dont really see them taking curry or crabtree.

maybe a tackle

I hope Pioli isn't stupid enough to take a RT with the 3rd pick in the draft. I think Curry is now the best option.

Xiomera
02-28-2009, 12:45 PM
A little part of me is pissed that the Lions didn't make this trade.

They obviously need a QB, so why not trade #20 for Cassel and then use #1 on someone else as so many people are screaming to do?

I still want Stafford, but if #20 and maybe one other pick would have been sufficient to get Cassel, I will really question the decision-making of Mayhew on this one.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I think moving down would be the best option, for any team that wants to get ahead of Seattle and Jacksonville to assure themselves of getting Sanchez. I'd hate to see them taking a LB that high, so don't rule out Orakpo, or maybe even Crabs.

Don Vito
02-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I can live with that, that gives us three second rounders. I will continue to pull for Cassel and Vrabel, they were big parts of our team. Vrabel was a mainstay in our defense since the moment he got here and Cassel played extremely well for us last year when the season looked to be lost.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 12:47 PM
I don't love the move, but thankfully we didn't do something stupid like give up our 1st rounder.

A 2nd round for Cassel is good value if he can continue to play like he did last season. Of course, we're going to have to get him some more weapons.

Now I'm really interested to see what the f#ck we do with the #3 pick - I could have sworn we would take Sanchez.

gramage
02-28-2009, 12:47 PM
Curry is the bigger need and the better player IMO, but Crabtree wouldn't shock me since Haley had so much success with multiple recievers in Arizona, and Crabtree with Bowe would potentially be an elite pair.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd love to trade for Bolden (Pipe Dream) and then trade down from #3 and nab Everette Brown later.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 12:48 PM
I think moving down would be the best option, for any team that wants to get ahead of Seattle and Jacksonville to assure themselves of getting Sanchez. I'd hate to see them taking a LB that high, so don't rule out Orakpo, or maybe even Crabs.

I agree that #3 is a bit of a reach for a non-pass rushing linebacker like Curry. But since we don't need a LT or QB now, anyone else we take there is going to be a reach. I don't know if a trade down is really possible, the 3rd pick in the draft is really hard to trade.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:50 PM
If they want Curry (which they should, he's the best pick), they have to do it at #3. He won't be there later than that. No one wants to get in front of Seattle because no one knows what Seattle's going to do (aside from NOT pick Curry).
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MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:50 PM
I agree that #3 is a bit of a reach for a non-pass rushing linebacker like Curry. But since we don't need a LT or QB now, anyone else we take there is going to be a reach. I don't know if a trade down is really possible, the 3rd pick in the draft is really hard to trade.

Like i said, there may be a team that wants to leap frog Seattle to assure themselves of getting Sanchez. They don't have to follow the stupid draft chart to get value, if they move down 5 or 6 spots and pick up a 3rd in the process, call it a deal and move down. Save yourself money, pick up an extra pick and you get better value for the player you want.

mqtirishfan
02-28-2009, 12:50 PM
A little part of me is pissed that the Lions didn't make this trade.

They obviously need a QB, so why not trade #20 for Cassel and then use #1 on someone else as so many people are screaming to do?


I'm not sure I'd like for my franchise QB to be 30 when the team finally turned around.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 12:51 PM
I agree that #3 is a bit of a reach for a non-pass rushing linebacker like Curry. But since we don't need a LT or QB now, anyone else we take there is going to be a reach. I don't know if a trade down is really possible, the 3rd pick in the draft is really hard to trade.

I've talked about this on Chiefs Planet before, but what about Everette Brown at #3? Even with Vrabel, the 3-4 is not going to work unless we have a dominant edge rusher.

I just don't think a 3-4 ILB is a great choice for a top 3 pick.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm not sure I'd like for my franchise QB to be 30 when the team finally turned around.

What the hell does it matter. Quarterbacks have a longer career span than pretty much any other position, so if he can play, he can play.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:51 PM
I've talked about this on Chiefs Planet before, but what about Everette Brown at #3? Even with Vrabel, the 3-4 is not going to work unless we have a dominant edge rusher.

I just don't think a 3-4 ILB is a great choice for a top 3 pick.

I really want Everette Brown, but I'd rather trade down first.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:52 PM
I've talked about this on Chiefs Planet before, but what about Everette Brown at #3? Even with Vrabel, the 3-4 is not going to work unless we have a dominant edge rusher.

I just don't think a 3-4 ILB is a great choice for a top 3 pick.

Everette Brown would be a horrible reach.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 12:53 PM
I really want Everette Brown, but I'd rather trade down first.

Definitely, but I'm going with the assumption that we couldn't. Trading down would be ideal no matter what though.

mqtirishfan
02-28-2009, 12:53 PM
What the hell does it matter. Quarterbacks have a longer career span than pretty much any other position, so if he can play, he can play.

Either way, if both pan out, he likely has 6 less years or so than Stafford, and less potential.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
I think an important aspect of this trade, is the fact that the pats have just cleared up 17 million in cap space.

I don't mind the early 2nd, i think its fair value, and I'd expect a conditional pick next year or a 4th-5th this year to be involved somewhere.

Either way, I'll take it for the free agents we could try and get in now, and the flexibility it gives us on draft day. We will have our first, 3 seconds, and 2 thirds (once we get our compensatory from Samuel).

All in all, it looks good.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
Either way, if both pan out, he likely has 6 less years or so than Stafford, and less potential.

And you wouldn't be risking half as much as you would with Stafford, so pick your poison.

Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
What the hell does it matter. Quarterbacks have a longer career span than pretty much any other position, so if he can play, he can play.

Especially since he's 26, and has played 1 full year in his last 8.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
Everette Brown would be a horrible reach.

Pretty much anything is a reach at this point, whether it's reaching for an individual player or a reach based on value.

If KC stays at 3, they basically will have to take a very good right tackle or inside LB, or reach for a player at a premium position like OLB or DT, even though the individual players may not warrant being picked that high.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:54 PM
I think an important aspect of this trade, is the fact that the pats have just cleared up 17 million in cap space.

I don't mind the early 2nd, i think its fair value, and I'd expect a conditional pick next year or a 4th-5th this year to be involved somewhere.

Either way, I'll take it for the free agents we could try and get in now, and the flexibility it gives us on draft day. We will have our first, 3 seconds, and 2 thirds (once we get our compensatory from Samuel).

All in all, it looks good.

Not really. They haven't cleared anything because the 17 million never went against the cap.

Matthew Jones
02-28-2009, 12:55 PM
That moron King might know, considering he lives on the inside rim of the Patriots' collective asshole.

If all the Chiefs had to give up was their 2nd round pick, for both Cassel and Vrabel, that's not too bad.

If it's a second round pick, I say New England got pretty ripped off. Great deal for Kansas City. I would expect a 2 and a 2 or 3 next year, but really I'd be looking for first-round value here, especially if Vrabel is included in the deal. However, this does end up freeing up ~$18 million in cap room that would allow New England to improve the rest of their roster. I expect New England to sign Leigh Bodden soon - he's a good fit.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:55 PM
Pretty much anything is a reach at this point, whether it's reaching for an individual player or a reach based on value.

If KC stays at 3, they basically will have to take a very good right tackle or inside LB, or reach for a player at a premium position like OLB or DT, even though the individual players may not warrant being picked that high.

Everette Brown isn't even the best prospect at his position, and taking him at #3 would be ludicrous.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:55 PM
I don't see how Cassel has less potential than Stafford... He's a better athlete and a much harder worker.
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vidae
02-28-2009, 12:56 PM
What the hell does it matter. Quarterbacks have a longer career span than pretty much any other position, so if he can play, he can play.

Is this a joke? What does it matter? It matters. QBs don't play until they're 40 (not all of them anyway..) and our 2nd is basically a low 1st. There is still a lot of talent there.

Obviously I'm not a fan of this move as I think Cassel is a decent QB but won't ever be a franchise type QB. I think Stafford and Sanchez both have a lot more upside.

IF Stafford is there at 3 (which by all accounts he won't be) I think I'll be even more pissed about this.

I really hope he proves me wrong. I'd love to eat crow on this one, I just don't think I ever will.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:56 PM
If it's a second round pick, I say New England got pretty ripped off. Great deal for Kansas City. I would expect a 2 and a 2 or 3 next year, but really I'd be looking for first-round value here, especially if Vrabel is included in the deal. However, this does end up freeing up ~$18 million in cap room that would allow New England to improve the rest of their roster. I expect New England to sign Leigh Bodden soon - he's a good fit.

Like i said before, how does this "free" up cap space? The 17 million of the franchise tag never even went against the cap. I'm sure they were making plans as if those 17 were never gonna get there because they were obviously actively looking for a trade partner.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 12:56 PM
I like it for the fact it did'nt cost us the 3rd pick.man which Patriot is Pioli going to trade for next?

bearsfan_51
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't see how Cassel has less potential than Stafford... He's a better athlete and a much harder worker.

Because Stafford throws the ball much better than Cassel, which, last time I checked, is important for the position.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't see how Cassel has less potential than Stafford... He's a better athlete and a much harder worker.

Whoa..Easy their Chief..Stafford has an almost uncapped potential...Cassel is good and is far less riskier, but Stafford has a higher ceiling.

PalmerToCJ
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
If it does end up being a 2nd and conditional mid-late round pick next year that sounds like a good deal to me.

While I'm not sure I think Cassel will be all that productive, the same can be said about any 2nd round QB you draft and at least Cassel has proven he can be successful in the right situation. Good trade by the Chiefs if it works out.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Everette Brown isn't even the best prospect at his position, and taking him at #3 would be ludicrous.

Disagree and you missed my point entirely.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 12:58 PM
as long as we improve the OL and keep TG to go with Bowe Cassel will have some weapons to work with

adschofield
02-28-2009, 12:58 PM
Is this a joke? What does it matter? It matters. QBs don't play until they're 40 (not all of them anyway..) and our 2nd is basically a low 1st. There is still a lot of talent there.

Obviously I'm not a fan of this move as I think Cassel is a decent QB but won't ever be a franchise type QB. I think Stafford and Sanchez both have a lot more upside.

IF Stafford is there at 3 (which by all accounts he won't be) I think I'll be even more pissed about this.

But Cassel is far less riskier and the acquisition allows us to address another need at #3.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 12:58 PM
Is this a joke? What does it matter? It matters. QBs don't play until they're 40 (not all of them anyway..) and our 2nd is basically a low 1st. There is still a lot of talent there.

Obviously I'm not a fan of this move as I think Cassel is a decent QB but won't ever be a franchise type QB. I think Stafford and Sanchez both have a lot more upside.

IF Stafford is there at 3 (which by all accounts he won't be) I think I'll be even more pissed about this.

Matt Cassel was one of the best 5 AFC quarterbacks last season, and all you gave up for him was the 35th pick in the draft. You're kidding yourself if you think that at 35 you were gonna find someone that can step in right away and lead your team to a winning record (which Cassel is very capable of doing). You're most likely not gonna give him the type of money you would have given a quarterback at #3 (See Matt Ryan), and you're not risking bust potential as high as any incoming rookie QB.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 12:59 PM
Like i said before, how does this "free" up cap space? The 17 million of the franchise tag never even went against the cap. I'm sure they were making plans as if those 17 were never gonna get there because they were obviously actively looking for a trade partner.

It allows them to spend money they couldn't have before the trade, what are you talking about? Vrabel frees up 3 mil as well.

Matthew Jones
02-28-2009, 12:59 PM
Like i said before, how does this "free" up cap space? The 17 million of the franchise tag never even went against the cap. I'm sure they were making plans as if those 17 were never gonna get there because they were obviously actively looking for a trade partner.

It frees $3.3 to trade Vrabel, and Cassel would have counted for ~$14.5 had New England not been able to find a trade partner for him. Because Cassel signed the franchise tender, New England had to go into that knowing they could potentially have $29 million or so dedicated to the QB position between Brady and Cassel and that handicaps what you can do - you don't want to go after a guy like DeAngelo Hall for $40-50 million knowing you might end up being way over the cap after Cassel's number goes into effect.

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:00 PM
So is it for sure both players for our 2nd or what?

If so I like it stay away from our first round pick.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 01:00 PM
Matt Cassel was one of the best 5 AFC quarterbacks last season, and all you gave up for him was the 35th pick in the draft. You're kidding yourself if you think that at 35 you were gonna find someone that can step in right away and lead your team to a winning record (which Cassel is very capable of doing). You're most likely not gonna give him the type of money you would have given a quarterback at #3 (See Matt Ryan), and you're not risking bust potential as high as any incoming rookie QB.

agreed.and you'd have to think Pioli saw him enough in New England that he knew weather he was a franchise type QB

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 01:00 PM
Because Stafford throws the ball much better than Cassel, which, last time I checked, is important for the position.

You mean his erratic passing in the SEC has led you to believe he throws the ball "much better" than a guy that did it for 16 games in the National Football League? That's ridiculous. Just say "Stafford has a stronger arm, and i like that" and cut the BS.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:02 PM
I don't see how Cassel has less potential than Stafford... He's a better athlete and a much harder worker.

I dont think Cassel is a better athlete than Stafford and you dont know how hard Stafford works. Add to it that Cassel doesnt have near the arm that Stafford does either.

As for Cassel to KC it is probably a good move by KC if it doesnt include giving up that #3 pick.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
So is it for sure both players for our 2nd or what?

If so I like it stay away from our first round pick.

Peter King is reporting that it's Cassel and Vrabel for only the 2nd round pick. No other picks are involved.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
I dont think Cassel is a better athlete than Stafford and you dont know how hard Stafford works. Add to it that Cassel doesnt have near the arm that Stafford does either.

As for Cassel to KC it is probably a good move by KC if it doesnt include giving up that #3 pick.


appearantly it's just a 2nd round pick not our 1st

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
As for Cassel to KC it is probably a good move by KC if it doesnt include giving up that #3 pick.

Agreed......

vidae
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
You mean his erratic passing in the SEC has led you to believe he throws the ball "much better" than a guy that did it for 16 games in the National Football League? That's ridiculous. Just say "Stafford has a stronger arm, and i like that" and cut the BS.

You want to cut the BS? Fine, lets do it.

Show me a team stacked more than the Patriots. One of the best OL in the game, Randy Moss, Wes Welker? Give ME a break. Our offensive line was one of the worst, Bowe is solid but had the drops last year, and Tony is done in a few years. We don't have the weapons to help him like he had in NE and we damn sure don't have the defense to keep games close.

And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Culpepper was traded for a 2nd
Schaub was traded for 2 2nd's
And Cassel and Vrabel were traded for a 2nd

I'm liking the trade more and more...

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:05 PM
You mean his erratic passing in the SEC has led you to believe he throws the ball "much better" than a guy that did it for 16 games in the National Football League? That's ridiculous. Just say "Stafford has a stronger arm, and i like that" and cut the BS.


I thought we established that 61% passing in the SEC with guys landing on your knees on just about every play is equal to about 80% in the 7 on 7 league they call the Big-12.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 01:05 PM
You want to cut the BS? Fine, lets do it.

Show me a team stacked more than the Patriots. One of the best OL in the game, Randy Moss, Wes Welker? Give ME a break. Our offensive line was one of the worst, Bowe is solid but had the drops last year, and Tony is done in a few years. We don't have the weapons to help him like he had in NE and we damn sure don't have the defense to keep games close.

And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.

Honestly, the potential of Cassel and Sanchez are comparable...Cassel will be cheaper, less riskier, and will allow us to address another need.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:05 PM
Cassel's the better athlete, and Stafford might have a stronger arm, but Cassel showed a damn good all-around NFL arm.
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eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:05 PM
You want to cut the BS? Fine, lets do it.

Show me a team stacked more than the Patriots. One of the best OL in the game, Randy Moss, Wes Welker? Give ME a break. Our offensive line was one of the worst, Bowe is solid but had the drops last year, and Tony is done in a few years. We don't have the weapons to help him like he had in NE and we damn sure don't have the defense to keep games close.

And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.


I thought you wanted Curry at #3?

PossumBoy9
02-28-2009, 01:06 PM
A little part of me is pissed that the Lions didn't make this trade.

They obviously need a QB, so why not trade #20 for Cassel and then use #1 on someone else as so many people are screaming to do?

I still want Stafford, but if #20 and maybe one other pick would have been sufficient to get Cassel, I will really question the decision-making of Mayhew on this one.

In the end, I think Stafford will have been better than Cassel. I think Stafford will be a "franchise" guy.

PalmerToCJ
02-28-2009, 01:06 PM
And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.

I can definitely understand a KC fan having that viewpoint.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 01:07 PM
Culpepper was traded for a 2nd
Schaub was traded for 2 2nd's
And Cassel and Vrabel were traded for a 2nd

I'm liking the trade more and more...

I think its a great trade for KC, good value, the chiefs had the pats balls in a vicegrip though i think, as they really didn't want to carry cassell's cap number.

That said, I am not really disappointed, hopefully it nets us a productive player, some FAs and resign Wilfork Mankins and Co.

Nalej
02-28-2009, 01:07 PM
Just a second rounder? That's it? For both players?
I thought they'd be able to get more picks if it didn't involve a 1st rounder.
I hope when it all comes out officially that at least a '10 conditional is added along with it

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:08 PM
appearantly it's just a 2nd round pick not our 1st


What amounts to what the 35th pick is probably not bad for the Pats either, i was never as crazy about Cassel as others. To me he folds a little too easy under pressure, which he'll see more of in KC. Brady must be healthy, hope he doesnt overdo it on his honeymoon.:)

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 01:08 PM
You want to cut the BS? Fine, lets do it.

Show me a team stacked more than the Patriots. One of the best OL in the game, Randy Moss, Wes Welker? Give ME a break. Our offensive line was one of the worst, Bowe is solid but had the drops last year, and Tony is done in a few years. We don't have the weapons to help him like he had in NE and we damn sure don't have the defense to keep games close.

And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.

The Patriots' offensive line is terribly overrated. I hate the Randy Moss argument, when Randy wasn't the one throwing the ball to himself. That's as weak an argument you can make against a player, and the fact that you've resorted to using it is laughable. He makes very good throws, he has shown to work well under pressure and is an accurate passer and a good decision maker. You're pretty much guaranteeing yourself that by getting him. Stafford or Sanchez can come in with their rocket arms and stick it up all their careers, but you wouldn't know right now because they've yet to step foot on an NFL field, compared to a guy whose performance warranted Pro-Bowl consideration.

vidae
02-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Just a second rounder? That's it? For both players?
I thought they'd be able to get more picks if it didn't involve a 1st rounder.
I hope when it all comes out officially that at least a '10 conditional is added along with it

Our second rounder is the second pick in the second round. That's a damn good pick. If it was late second I could maybe agree with you, but the Pats are practically sniffing the first round with that.

635
02-28-2009, 01:09 PM
terrible moveo n the part of the chiefs..Cassell is clearly overrated, he had a solid season with great weapons, and he has problems throwing deep balls..Cassell is not a long term answer, he's not even on the level of a guy like Matt Schaub. To waste a pick on that fool and then compensate him for what will surely be average play is foolish.

adschofield
02-28-2009, 01:10 PM
Our second rounder is the second pick in the second round. That's a damn good pick. If it was late second I could maybe agree with you, but the Pats are practically sniffing the first round with that.

Would you trade Michael Johnson (Scott's pick for us in the 2nd) for Cassel and Vrabel?

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Cassel's the better athlete, and Stafford might have a stronger arm, but Cassel showed a damn good all-around NFL arm.

He did show well but Stafford is a thoroughbred and that isnt a knock on Cassel. The real debate should be Cassel vs. Sanchez because Stafford is basically the property of Detroit.

ZOMGitsjosh
02-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Thigpen to Carolina, please.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:12 PM
You want to cut the BS? Fine, lets do it.

Show me a team stacked more than the Patriots. One of the best OL in the game, Randy Moss, Wes Welker? Give ME a break. Our offensive line was one of the worst, Bowe is solid but had the drops last year, and Tony is done in a few years. We don't have the weapons to help him like he had in NE and we damn sure don't have the defense to keep games close.

And no, I don't expect someone to be there at 35 to help lead this team, but I expected someone to be there at 3, and unless it went Stafford 1 and Sanchez 2, there was a chance we could have drafted a QB with a hell of a lot more potential than Cassel.

The Patriots were stacked last year? How? The OL played like crap, they ONLY had Moss and Welker, and the only part of the defense that was better than the Chiefs' was their defensive line. The Pats would've killed to have the Chiefs' secondary...

Bowe & Gonzo isn't far off from Moss & Welker, the Chiefs need a couple tweaks along the OL (keep in mind the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl with far worse talent along at OL), and another receiving option to go along with Gonzo, Bowe, and Bradley...and they'll be in amazing shape.

Defensively, I'm sure Pioli's working hard to figure out how to get their DL to a high level quickly, but his first priority was obviously these trades with New England. We'll see how hard of a push they make for Canty and/or Olshansky (also throw Mike Wright into the mix).

The Chiefs are shaping up.
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Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Our second rounder is the second pick in the second round. That's a damn good pick. If it was late second I could maybe agree with you, but the Pats are practically sniffing the first round with that.

Good point, you're probably going to have your pick of some really good players like: Alex Mack, Duke Robinson, Kenny Britt, Clay Matthews, Connor Barwin and on and on.

jnew76
02-28-2009, 01:13 PM
If the Chiefs get Cassel for the 35th pick in the draft, I think it is the best value trade since the Patriots got Randy Moss from the Raiders for a 4th rounder. I think it is a steal. Pioli is proving that he is the best in the business.

MetSox17
02-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Would you trade Michael Johnson (Scott's pick for us in the 2nd) for Cassel and Vrabel?

No, cause that would give him the opportunity to take Sanchez at 3!!!!!111111 :rolleyes:

Here's pretty much the trade off:

Matt Cassel, Mike Vrabel, Aaron Curry

or

Mark Sanchez, Michael Johnson

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:14 PM
He did show well but Stafford is a thoroughbred and that isnt a knock on Cassel. The real debate should be Cassel vs. Sanchez because Stafford is basically the property of Detroit.

Exactly. I don't know why Stafford is even being discussed, he's going to Detroit.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Would you trade Michael Johnson (Scott's pick for us in the 2nd) for Cassel and Vrabel?

I think it's a great move by KC without bringing that malcontent into the discussion.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:16 PM
Exactly. I don't know why Stafford is even being discussed, he's going to Detroit.


Because every thread has to morph into Matthew Stafford i guess.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:18 PM
I think a Chiefs-Pats trade was always going to be a friendly discount in the Chiefs' favor. The Patriots want to see Pioli do well, and he'll return the favor down the line.
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Nalej
02-28-2009, 01:18 PM
I'm sure we could've gotten that same 2nd round pick without adding in Vrabel
What was the point of that? Salary dump?

We better pick up a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Radio in KC is saying it is for sure Cassel and Vrable for the Chiefs 2nd and that is it.

Great move.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm sure we could've gotten that same 2nd round pick without adding in Vrabel
What was the point of that? Salary dump?

We better pick up a pass rushing OLB with our 1st round pick

The point was that the Pats chose where he went, and the Chiefs wanted him anyway. They picked up Tully, and can now sign Woods to a long-term deal. I don't see them messing with OLB. WR, RT, and S are the biggest problem areas for the Pats.
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MetSox17
02-28-2009, 01:20 PM
I think a Chiefs-Pats trade was always going to be a friendly discount in the Chiefs' favor. The Patriots want to see Pioli do well, and he'll return the favor down the line.

Why the hell would the Patriots want to see Pioli do well? If they were in that great of terms, he wouldn't have left the (arguably)best franchise in the NFL at the moment, for a team notorious for picking in the top ten of the NFL draft. If you're not part of the Patriots, chances are, they hate you.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:21 PM
I think a Chiefs-Pats trade was always going to be a friendly discount in the Chiefs' favor. The Patriots want to see Pioli do well, and he'll return the favor down the line.


I think you're right on there. Establish some connections and take them to the cleaners later.:)

As for the Pats with the 34th pick it would be a lot easier to move up into that mid to late 1st if there is someone there they cant live without.

My hope is that 34th pick has Connor Barwin's name on it.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Exactly. I don't know why Stafford is even being discussed, he's going to Detroit.

Because we were also discussing why Detroit didn't make this trade for 33.

Smokey Joe
02-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Is it just a 2nd, or a 2nd w/ a conditional pick in 2010? I think its the later.

Also, if Crabtree shows hes healthy, he'd make a ton of sense for the chiefs. Cassel needs weapons.

Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 01:22 PM
Why the hell would the Patriots want to see Pioli do well? If they were in that great of terms, he wouldn't have left the (arguably)best franchise in the NFL at the moment, for a team notorious for picking in the top ten of the NFL draft. If you're not part of the Patriots, chances are, they hate you.

I disagree, he left on very friendly terms and is still very close with Belichick. That being said, they would not give KC a discount

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:22 PM
Is it just a 2nd, or a 2nd w/ a conditional pick in 2010? I think its the later.


Local radio keeps saying just a 2nd will see.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:23 PM
I think you're right on there. Establish some connections and take them to the cleaners later.:)

As for the Pats with the 34th pick it would be a lot easier to move up into that mid to late 1st if there is someone there they cant live without.

My hope is that 34th pick has Connor Barwin's name on it.

With the way the draft looks at that point, I think a Tyson Jackson/Jarron Gilbert (let Mike Wright go...to the Chiefs) and Duke Robinson combo could be sweet.

If they want an OLB, I think it'll be Clay Matthews.
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Basileus777
02-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Local radio keeps saying just a 2nd will see.

It's just the 34th pick.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/02/28/chiefs_acquire_qb_matt_cassel_lb_mike_vrabel_in_tr ade_with_patriots/

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 01:24 PM
Yup, only #34.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:24 PM
I disagree, he left on very friendly terms and is still very close with Belichick. That being said, they would not give KC a discount

They did give the Chiefs a bit of a discount, probably with the understanding that the Chiefs would do the same for them at some point down the line.
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MasterShake
02-28-2009, 01:28 PM
NFL Network just reported the 2nd round pick is for BOTH Cassel AND Vrabel!

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 01:30 PM
NFL Network just reported the 2nd round pick is for BOTH Cassel AND Vrabel!

I think you are a bit late!

Sveen
02-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Just the 34th pick seems a bit cheap to me... But the Pats probably were forced to trade Cassel because of his high cap number.

Nalej
02-28-2009, 01:32 PM
espn news just reported

"Cassel traded to Chiefs along with Vrabel for some draft PICKS"

Xonraider
02-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Radio in KC is saying it is for sure Cassel and Vrable for the Chiefs 2nd and that is it.

Great move.

Wow... I don't think the Patriots got the most out of this trade

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm not going to be a homer and say Cassel will be a pro bowler but I think he could be a solid starter.

vidae
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
espn news just reported

"Cassel traded to Chiefs along with Vrabel for some draft PICKS"

Considering the KC Chiefs website itself says it's just the 34th pick, I think you can go with that over ESPN.

holt_bruce81
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
Kinda funny, the Chiefs were the team that Injured Brady. Giving Cassell the chance to succeed in the league!

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
espn news just reported

"Cassel traded to Chiefs along with Vrabel for some draft PICKS"

Dude, it's over. EVERYONE has reported it is just for the 2nd round pick. Peter King, NFL Network, Len Pasquarelli, etc.

ONLY a 2nd rounder. Period.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
espn news just reported

"Cassel traded to Chiefs along with Vrabel for some draft PICKS"

Already confirmed as #34 overall, sorry!

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
espn news just reported

"Cassel traded to Chiefs along with Vrabel for some draft PICKS"

This is from KCChiefs.com

The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Saturday that the club has acquired QB Matt Cassel and LB Mike Vrabel from New England in exchange for the Chiefs second-round pick (34th overall) in the 2009 NFL Draft. The agreement is contingent on both players reporting and passing their physicals.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 01:36 PM
Was hoping for a late first, but I guess I'm ok with the 2nd, IF we resign some key guys and make a bit of a splash in free agency.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:37 PM
Kinda funny, the Chiefs were the team that Injured Brady. Giving Cassell the chance to succeed in the league!

Nice. Next step is the Chiefs letting the Pats have Pollard for nickels.
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Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:38 PM
This is from KCChiefs.com

The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Saturday that the club has acquired QB Matt Cassel and LB Mike Vrabel from New England in exchange for the Chiefs second-round pick (34th overall) in the 2009 NFL Draft. The agreement is contingent on both players reporting and passing their physicals.


If they can get a couple of years out of Vrabel that is probably the steal of the century. I sort of thought the Bucs would be interested, i guess not.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 01:40 PM
Was hoping for a late first, but I guess I'm ok with the 2nd, IF we resign some key guys and make a bit of a splash in free agency.


They could probably trade both 2nds and move into that 20ish range rather easily. Should be interesting on draft day.

635
02-28-2009, 01:40 PM
If the Chiefs get Cassel for the 35th pick in the draft, I think it is the best value trade since the Patriots got Randy Moss from the Raiders for a 4th rounder. I think it is a steal. Pioli is proving that he is the best in the business.

HELLL NAW..

a pretty above average QB (for all we know, he could be Derek Anderson) versus the second best receiver all time for a 4th round pick..not even

ATLDirtyBirds
02-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Don't think all that highly off Cassel, but for just #34? Good move for KC.

GB12
02-28-2009, 01:42 PM
I don't see how Cassel has less potential than Stafford... He's a better athlete and a much harder worker.
Because Cassel will never be better than he was in 2008.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 01:43 PM
They could probably trade both 2nds and move into that 20ish range rather easily. Should be interesting on draft day.

Yeah its true, 34 = 560 47 =430
Together have value of 990, which could get us to #17. Not bad at all.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 01:43 PM
Because Cassel will never be better than he was in 2008.

And why is that? You're talking about a guy who improved pretty drastically during that season. There's no reason to expect he can't continue to get better.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:44 PM
If they can get a couple of years out of Vrabel that is probably the steal of the century. I sort of thought the Bucs would be interested, i guess not.

Yeah the more I think about it, this is an amazing steal for KC.

They now have Cassel, Vrabel, AND the #3 pick in the draft.

I expect Pioli will try to trade down, and if he does we'll probably get that 2nd round pick back.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Because Cassel will never be better than he was in 2008.

That's a ridiculous thing to say.
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Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 01:44 PM
They could probably trade both 2nds and move into that 20ish range rather easily. Should be interesting on draft day.

They have 3 second round picks actually

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 01:45 PM
They have 3 seconds I believe.

They do, that was the value of their 2 highest 2nds.

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Because Cassel will never be better than he was in 2008.

Can you go a head and tell us who will win the SB next year since you know it all?

jnew76
02-28-2009, 01:46 PM
HELLL NAW..

a pretty above average QB (for all we know, he could be Derek Anderson) versus the second best receiver all time for a 4th round pick..not even

Hence the reason I said "since" the Moss trade... While the Moss deal was robbing Fort Knox. The Chiefs deal is merely Bernie Madoff.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:46 PM
I'd rather they use all 4 picks they have in the first two rounds than trade any of them...
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NY+Giants=NYG
02-28-2009, 01:46 PM
And why is that? You're talking about a guy who improved pretty drastically during that season. There's no reason to expect he can't continue to get better.

Different system and everything. You're basically paying and hoping for NE Pats production. Doesn't mean he can't get better, but it's still all up in the air. I think if they watch tape of NE and tailor the system for him, then I can see him doing well.

Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Ya 3 2nds... San Diego's (47), KC's (34) and our own...55 i think?

BmoreBlackByrdz
02-28-2009, 01:47 PM
As a fan of another team, I can't see why this trade was made. I mean personally I thought Tyler Thigpen showed enough to earn a chance for next year. But I can understand the move since they got a new HC and Pioli is the guy that drafted Cassel, but I was never high on Cassel either. He had 1 of the greatest deep threats in the history of the league and one of the best slot WR's in the game right now in Welker. not to mention a hall of fame coach, yet he puts up decent numbers and only 11 wins w/ no playoff birth. However, in a positive look at things. KC gets a potential franchise QB, to add to there young offense with Bowe, Gonzo, Albert and maybe even L.J. They are a few players away from being a playoff contending team. They need a playmaker in the front7, a solid ball hawk type safety and some o-line help as well.(youth and talent) Nonetheless, Kansas City is headed in the right direction if you ask me.

Splat
02-28-2009, 01:47 PM
He is going to have to get a new number 16 is Len Dawsons number.

BradysKnee
02-28-2009, 01:49 PM
He is going to have to get a number 16 is Len Dawsons number.

#12? lol. Just like his mentor.

nepg
02-28-2009, 01:49 PM
Haley ran a similar style of offense in Arizona, and the Chiefs have some good pieces to work with. The main thing is that Haley/Pioli's philosophy is going to match up almost identically with the Patriots' philosophy because of their backgrounds...
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nepg
02-28-2009, 01:51 PM
As a fan of another team, I can't see why this trade was made. I mean personally I thought Tyler Thigpen showed enough to earn a chance for next year. But I can understand the move since they got a new HC and Pioli is the guy that drafted Cassel, but I was never high on Cassel either. He had 1 of the greatest deep threats in the history of the league and one of the best slot WR's in the game right now in Welker. not to mention a hall of fame coach, yet he puts up decent numbers and only 11 wins w/ no playoff birth. However, in a positive look at things. KC gets a potential franchise QB, to add to there young offense with Bowe, Gonzo, Albert and maybe even L.J. They are a few players away from being a playoff contending team. They need a playmaker in the front7, a solid ball hawk type safety and some o-line help as well.(youth and talent) Nonetheless, Kansas City is headed in the right direction if you ask me.

Thigpen is crap. He only looked OK on first and 2nd downs in first and third quarters in a high school offense where he made almost zero reads, zero progressions, and tucked and ran or got sacked instead of checking down or even trying to throw the ball away.

The Chiefs' offense has some great pieces. Bowe & Gonzo is a nice combo, comparable to Moss & Welker (keeping in mind Cassel had nothing other than these two and Kevin Faulk last year).
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senormysterioso
02-28-2009, 01:51 PM
#12? lol. Just like his mentor.

Or maybe 19 like the last quarterback with the number 16 that the Chiefs traded for?

gpngc
02-28-2009, 01:52 PM
I mean personally I thought Tyler Thigpen showed enough to earn a chance for next year.

That's your opinion. Chiefs disagree.

The common misconception was that Thigpen showed enough to be considered an NFL starter because in that crazy little offense (always trailing) Thigpen put up some decent #s (the fact that he was a relevant fantasy name also made people think he might have a future as a starter). The harsh reality was that he was a turnover machine who couldn't win games with a sub- 55% completion rate.

Menardo75
02-28-2009, 01:57 PM
This is probably the more safe move by the Cheifs good work.

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 01:59 PM
as a pats fan im pretty mad that we only got #34 for him, but at the same time i like the fact that we dont have to pay that salary, and now we can go ahead and some of free agents that could help next year, while drafting and getting younger, which is clearly needed

BBIB
02-28-2009, 02:09 PM
as a pats fan im pretty mad that we only got #34 for him, but at the same time i like the fact that we dont have to pay that salary, and now we can go ahead and some of free agents that could help next year, while drafting and getting younger, which is clearly needed

Well you certainly weren't going to get the 3rd overall pick in the draft. No team would have been that dumb.

Just consider the fact that you got a 2nd round pick for a guy who never started since HS before last season.

If Brady returns to full strength, who the hell needs Matt Cassel on the Pats?

Even if Brady isn't at full strength Kevin O'Connell could throw to Wes Welker and Randy Moss. Hell he was even better at doing so in the pre-season than Cassel was.

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 02:11 PM
as a pats fan im pretty mad that we only got #34 for him, but at the same time i like the fact that we dont have to pay that salary, and now we can go ahead and some of free agents that could help next year, while drafting and getting younger, which is clearly needed

Yea I agree, if it was draft day I definitely think at least a 1st would've been received when more than likely both stafford and Sanchez went early. But now this means the Pats can do something in free agency and still have four 1st day picks. I'm happy enough

gpngc
02-28-2009, 02:11 PM
It's funny that Pats fans are upset about #34 saying- I WANTED A LATE FIRST ROUNDER! So you would've been OK with #31? LOL.

The bottom line is you are probably going to get the same guy (Matthews, Sintim, Maybin) at #34 that would've gotten at #22 (Vikings pick).

Good move for both teams.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 02:13 PM
I get a feeling Aaron Curry is a lock for KC.according to Schef Detroit tried to get in on Cassel last minute which leads me to believe that since they missed on Cassel Stafford will be the 1st pick

BBIB
02-28-2009, 02:14 PM
I get a feeling Aaron Curry is a lock for KC.according to Schef Detroit tried to get in on Cassel last minute which leads me to believe that since they missed on Cassel Stafford will be the 1st pick

I feel the same way. There are pretty much no other FA QBs that they have hinted at going after which probably means Stafford is their guy.

The Chiefs definitely need to take defense 1st. Curry is the way to go

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 02:15 PM
I am unsure why anyone thinks it is a bad deal for KC. You get an OLB starter for a few years, and a team leader, who is desperately needed in that 3-4 D. You get a young QB who is paired with one of the best QB coaches around in Haley, and the guy who got him drafted him and saw him grow, I think he knows him better than we do.

Add onto the fact that you still have #3 overall and can add Curry to that defense, the Chiefs may be only a few pieces away if it all works out.

T-RICH49
02-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Considering the KC Chiefs website itself says it's just the 34th pick, I think you can go with that over ESPN.

yeah see the Mortensen/Shanahan fiasco

Splat
02-28-2009, 02:17 PM
I am unsure why anyone thinks it is a bad deal for KC. You get an OLB starter for a few years, and a team leader, who is desperately needed in that 3-4 D. You get a young QB who is paired with one of the best QB coaches around in Haley, and the guy who got him drafted him and saw him grow, I think he knows him better than we do.

Add onto the fact that you still have #3 overall and can add Curry to that defense, the Chiefs may be only a few pieces away if it all works out.

I agree a few days ago there were people on this board saying if we gave up our first round pick it would be a good deal now we only gave up a 2nd and its a bad deal?

nepg
02-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Ya, the Chiefs are a couple tweaks to the OL, a receiving target, and a free agent/draft binge on the front 7 away. They're going to be a team to look out for in 2009.

Their draft and free agency will largely revolve around getting guys for the 3-4 front 7. The secondary is pretty-well set, with nothing to complain about. Curry is a lock at #3 if the Rams don't nab him. So the Chiefs will be working hard to bring in a Canty, Olshansky, and/or Mike Wright...
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proshoota25
02-28-2009, 02:26 PM
It's funny that Pats fans are upset about #34 saying- I WANTED A LATE FIRST ROUNDER! So you would've been OK with #31? LOL.

The bottom line is you are probably going to get the same guy (Matthews, Sintim, Maybin) at #34 that would've gotten at #22 (Vikings pick).

Good move for both teams.

but dont be surprised either if they draft a WR, their #3 gaffney is now in denver and there is no one other than moss and welker that is worthy of playing so dont be surprised to hear harvin, nicks, britt, or DHB get their named called by the pats on draft day

Nitschke-Hawk
02-28-2009, 02:27 PM
Ya, the Chiefs are a couple tweaks to the OL, a receiving target, and a free agent/draft binge on the front 7 away. They're going to be a team to look out for in 2009.

Their draft and free agency will largely revolve around getting guys for the 3-4 front 7. The secondary is pretty-well set, with nothing to complain about. Curry is a lock at #3 if the Rams don't nab him. So the Chiefs will be working hard to bring in a Canty, Olshansky, and/or Mike Wright...

You make it seem so easy. Did you forget about the new coaching staff and schemes? They have to TEACH that stuff, then the players have to execute it. And like you said they still don't have the necessary players on the roster. The defense will struggle big time. They can't play an effective 3-4 and they're not gonna purge and find the 5 or 6 new starters needed for that transition this off season. Canty, Olshanksy or Mike Wright aren't gonna come in and be Richard Seymour either.

vidae
02-28-2009, 02:33 PM
Branden Albert will start at LT for years, and Rudy Niswanger is a good young player who can play C or G, but Waters only has a few years left and outside of those three there isn't anyone to get excited over. Couple that with the fact that if we are switching to a 3-4, we need 4 or 5 pieces to make it decent, I think we're a little bit more than a year away. It's going to take a few key FA signings and a few solid pieces drafted to get us to decent.

nepg
02-28-2009, 02:36 PM
You make it seem so easy. Did you forget about the new coaching staff and schemes? They have to TEACH that stuff, then the players have to execute it. And like you said they still don't have the necessary players on the roster. The defense will struggle big time. They can't play an effective 3-4 and they're not gonna purge and find the 5 or 6 new starters needed for that transition this off season. Canty, Olshanksy or Mike Wright aren't gonna come in and be Richard Seymour either.

They have Vrabel, Johnson, probably Curry, and Babin...that's their linebackers. It's not great (aside from the ILB's), but they've got starters to build from... There's not a huge learning curve for anyone except DJ and Curry. Vrabel's so great because he can play inside or outside in the 3-4.

The DL is the only place they really need to focus on. They're way short right now. I do like Dorsey as a guy who can play a bit of NT and develop into a full-time NT within a couple years. Tank Tyler can play the position... They'e got a couple guys that can, at the very least, provide depth at DE (Edwards, Johnston, McBride)...

Canty and Olshansky are 2 of the top 3-4 DE's in the NFL... Yes, Seymour's #1, but you say it as if those two aren't complete studs....

The Chiefs have a good chunk of cap room to play with. They can get a 3-4 base put together and start twinking it pretty quickly.

As far as the OL goes, they have their LT, they could have an RT in Richardson, and while Waters is up in the air, they should easily be able to put something together that works. Keep in mind the trash that Haley's worked with before and a huge upgrade at OL coach.
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Nalej
02-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Do you think Dorsey can play NT? Has he ever played that role before?
He's listed under 300lbs on nfl.com
I think it'd be smarter to shift him to a 3-4 DE and try and get yourself a
Shaun Rogers?
Some larger then life specimen of a man to clog up that middle

adschofield
02-28-2009, 02:41 PM
PFT reports that the Chiefs might trade Thigpen to the Bucs

nepg
02-28-2009, 02:42 PM
A lot of people don't think he can, but I always had him pegged as a guy who could be a 3-4 NT. He's slightly undersized, but he's as strong as Hell. Jay Ratliff did it at sub-300lbs...
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Splat
02-28-2009, 03:25 PM
I'm not going to say we make the players our D is still a mess we are still on the outside looking in IMO.

kmartin575
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Different system and everything. You're basically paying and hoping for NE Pats production. Doesn't mean he can't get better, but it's still all up in the air. I think if they watch tape of NE and tailor the system for him, then I can see him doing well.

Umm, we did just happen to sign SCOTT PIOLI from the Patriots, the man who drafted Cassel. I think Pioli knows exactly what he is trading for. This is a little different than any other team trading for Cassel.

kmartin575
02-28-2009, 03:41 PM
Do you think Dorsey can play NT? Has he ever played that role before?
He's listed under 300lbs on nfl.com
I think it'd be smarter to shift him to a 3-4 DE and try and get yourself a
Shaun Rogers?
Some larger then life specimen of a man to clog up that middle

Idk, perhaps Tank Tyler could attempt to play the nose. He was the strongest player at the combine in the 2007 draft and while he dropped his weight to play in the Chiefs' cover 2 I would think he could get up to the 330, maybe 340 range pretty easily.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 03:52 PM
I get a feeling Aaron Curry is a lock for KC.according to Schef Detroit tried to get in on Cassel last minute which leads me to believe that since they missed on Cassel Stafford will be the 1st pick


I highly doubt that because Detroit could have offered the 20th pick which is far more attractive than the 34th. People say a lot of things to make themselves look good and i mean writers, GMs etc.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Umm, we did just happen to sign SCOTT PIOLI from the Patriots, the man who drafted Cassel. I think Pioli knows exactly what he is trading for. This is a little different than any other team trading for Cassel.

Haley's offensive system is also very similar to what they run in NE.

superman
02-28-2009, 04:24 PM
it would have been funny if the cardinals traded for cassel and let warner go

then he started over leinart

Babylon
02-28-2009, 04:29 PM
it would have been funny if the cardinals traded for cassel and let warner go

then he started over leinart

You think more like the Joker than Superman.

bored of education
02-28-2009, 04:30 PM
/me kills self

Splat
02-28-2009, 04:31 PM
/me kills self

At this price it is worth the risk for the Chiefs.

PossumBoy9
02-28-2009, 04:36 PM
I get a feeling Aaron Curry is a lock for KC.according to Schef Detroit tried to get in on Cassel last minute which leads me to believe that since they missed on Cassel Stafford will be the 1st pick

The Rams could get in the way of that.

thebow305
02-28-2009, 04:37 PM
Well, it should be nice and easy for Pioli to succeed in KC with Belicheck just giving away quality players to him.

Matt Cassel AND Mike Vrabel for only the 34th pick!? Wow...

No offense to the Chiefs, but this is ridiculous. Hell, I wouldn't have been mad if the Dolphins pulled off that trade! I kind of wish we would've, that is highway robbery! Chiefs fans should be ecstatic for this.

Now, as much as I liked Raji to the Chiefs before, it's even more of a possibility now. But I guess that depends on whether they want Curry as an OLB or ILB. Because Vrabel satisfies their immediate need for an OLB opposite of Wimbley. But they also have young players like Williams, Bell, and Jackson inside so I don't really see the need to take Aaron Curry, except for the BPA side of it.

IMO Raji will be the pick.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Well, it should be nice and easy for Pioli to succeed in KC with Belicheck just giving away quality players to him.

Matt Cassel AND Mike Vrabel for only the 34th pick!? Wow...

No offense to the Chiefs, but this is ridiculous. Hell, I wouldn't have been mad if the Dolphins pulled off that trade! I kind of wish we would've, that is highway robbery!

They probably traded two backups there for the 34th pick in the draft. I think it was good for both sides.

Saints-Tigers
02-28-2009, 04:50 PM
I'm not sure that Matt Cassell is a championship level QB, he didn't exactly blow me away with one of the greatest supporting casts ever.

That said, I think Sanchez is about the same as a prospect, and I think Detroit was taking Stafford either way, so giving up the 35th pick was good value for Cassell.

I'm not totally sold on him, but like most have said, he's good value for a second rounder.

Edit: Dorsey COULD play the nose, he was like 315 at the combine/pro days, but I think it's a big waste of his ability to disrupt plays. I think KC is stupid to move to the 3-4, they have a lot of pieces in place to make a great 4-3.

Shahin
02-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Damn, I really expected NE to get at least a first rounder for Cassel

Babylon
02-28-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm not sure that Matt Cassell is a championship level QB, he didn't exactly blow me away with one of the greatest supporting casts ever.

That said, I think Sanchez is about the same as a prospect, and I think Detroit was taking Stafford either way, so giving up the 35th pick was good value for Cassell.

I'm not totally sold on him, but like most have said, he's good value for a second rounder.

I'm not the biggest Matt Cassel supporter out there but i think he can be to a Superbowl team what Phil Simms, Brad Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, and Jake Delhomme were.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm not sure that Matt Cassell is a championship level QB, he didn't exactly blow me away with one of the greatest supporting casts ever.

That said, I think Sanchez is about the same as a prospect, and I think Detroit was taking Stafford either way, so giving up the 35th pick was good value for Cassell.

I'm not totally sold on him, but like most have said, he's good value for a second rounder.

Edit: Dorsey COULD play the nose, he was like 315 at the combine/pro days, but I think it's a big waste of his ability to disrupt plays. I think KC is stupid to move to the 3-4, they have a lot of pieces in place to make a great 4-3.

I know it's easy to forget, but last year was Cassel's first year as a starter. When you look at what he did last year (21 TD, 11 INT, 63% comp) in terms of what you would expect out of a first year starter, I'm not sure how you could be disappointed at all.

Also, remember that he didn't have the benefit of going through training camp as the #1 guy and getting his timing down with WRs; Brady went down in week 1 and Cassel was expected to produce immediately, despite not having regular playing time since high school.

I don't think anyone knows what Cassel is truly capable of at this point, but based on the facts, I think it's reasonable to assume his ceiling is very high.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Now, as much as I liked Raji to the Chiefs before, it's even more of a possibility now. But I guess that depends on whether they want Curry as an OLB or ILB. Because Vrabel satisfies their immediate need for an OLB opposite of Wimbley. But they also have young players like Williams, Bell, and Jackson inside so I don't really see the need to take Aaron Curry, except for the BPA side of it.

IMO Raji will be the pick.

You're confusing the Chiefs and the Browns.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Well, it should be nice and easy for Pioli to succeed in KC with Belicheck just giving away quality players to him.

Matt Cassel AND Mike Vrabel for only the 34th pick!? Wow...

No offense to the Chiefs, but this is ridiculous. Hell, I wouldn't have been mad if the Dolphins pulled off that trade! I kind of wish we would've, that is highway robbery! Chiefs fans should be ecstatic for this.

Now, as much as I liked Raji to the Chiefs before, it's even more of a possibility now. But I guess that depends on whether they want Curry as an OLB or ILB. Because Vrabel satisfies their immediate need for an OLB opposite of Wimbley. But they also have young players like Williams, Bell, and Jackson inside so I don't really see the need to take Aaron Curry, except for the BPA side of it.

IMO Raji will be the pick.

Really? They have no good inside LB to put next to DJohnson

Starvsnr
02-28-2009, 05:57 PM
This is very ironic. The Chiefs are the reason Cassell is even known of, now they have him.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 06:06 PM
This is very ironic. The Chiefs are the reason Cassell is even known of, now they have him.

If I were Cassel, the first thing I would do when I came to KC would be to take Bernard Pollard out for the most expensive steak dinner in town.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 06:09 PM
If I were Cassel, the first thing I would do when I came to KC would be to take Bernard Pollard out for the most expensive steak dinner in town.


Bring your LT along with you.

Bucs_Rule
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
Bring your LT along with you.

That is mean.

I like it.

Babylon
02-28-2009, 06:15 PM
That is mean.

I like it.


I actually meant you need to keep your LT happy, it didnt come out that way did it?

Bucs_Rule
02-28-2009, 06:22 PM
I actually meant you need to keep your LT happy, it didnt come out that way did it?

I thought you were saying bring the NE LT to dinner as well.

kmartin575
02-28-2009, 06:26 PM
If I were Cassel, the first thing I would do when I came to KC would be to take Bernard Pollard out for the most expensive steak dinner in town.

Ruth's Chris

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 06:27 PM
Ruth's Chris

or he could just go KC style and take him to Arthur Bryant's.

Bengalsrocket
02-28-2009, 06:43 PM
I like this move. Patriots need the cap space so they free up a bunch by getting rid of both and Chiefs get rid of only 1 pick in the entire draft. having Cassel + the #3 overall pick gives them tons of options to start moving out of this "rebuilding" phase.

Furthermore, I like Cassel a lot. People always say they don't like him, and I don't get it. He's young and talented and was taught by arguably one of the best quarterbacks in football history along with one of the greatest coaches (and coaching staffs) of all time. Sure he played on a great team, but I highly doubt Tyler Thigpen goes 11-5 on that team, nor many other quarterbacks in the league. And while this isn't comparable to a rookie season for a QB because he's had plenty of time in the league, it's still pretty impressive for any quarterback's first time on the field.

Cassel has proved to me that he's more valuable than any of the quarterbacks in this current draft - and the Chiefs cannot wait another year for a quarterback (besides that, even if you think Stafford is better, theres a good chance he's gone by the time the chiefs pick).

Babylon
02-28-2009, 06:52 PM
I like this move. Patriots need the cap space so they free up a bunch by getting rid of both and Chiefs get rid of only 1 pick in the entire draft. having Cassel + the #3 overall pick gives them tons of options to start moving out of this "rebuilding" phase.

Furthermore, I like Cassel a lot. People always say they don't like him, and I don't get it. He's young and talented and was taught by arguably one of the best wuarterbacks in football history along with one of the greatest coaches (and coaching staffs)of all time. Sure he played on a great team, but I highly doubt Tyler Thigpen goes 11-5 on that team, nor many other quarterbacks in the league. And while this isn't comparable to a rookie season for a QB because he's had plenty of time in the league, it's still pretty impressive for any quarterback's first time on the field.

Cassel has proved to me that he's more valuable than any of the quarterbacks in this current draft - and the Chiefs cannot wait another year for a quarterback (besides that, even if you think Stafford is better, theres a good chance he's gone by the time the chiefs pick).

Matt Leinart?:)

I think most feel it's a great move by Kc for what they had to give up. New England gets the 34th pick and probably gets a player that is #1 pick worthy and they have a lot of ammo to move up if they so choose. Both teams should feel pretty good.

Menardo75
02-28-2009, 06:52 PM
Well I think Aaron Curry is all but locked now.

Bengalsrocket
02-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Matt Leinart?:)

I think most feel it's a great move by Kc for what they had to give up. New England gets the 34th pick and probably gets a player that is #1 pick worthy and they have a lot of ammo to move up if they so choose. Both teams should feel pretty good.

Thank you for pointing that out because I had a typo in there too!

And yes, I agree with you - both sides should feel really good about this trade.

BoneKrusher
02-28-2009, 07:10 PM
for what the Chiefs gave up in draft picks, they cant lose on this deal.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 07:16 PM
for what the Chiefs gave up in draft picks, they cant lose on this deal.

I wouldn't go that far, but it does look good right now.

PuppyPuncher
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Matt Cassel = Tyler Thigpen

Scott Pioli is an overrated GM.

BlindSite
02-28-2009, 07:47 PM
All things considered, Cassel's coaches, his line, his WRs and after seeing what Thigpen did with the team, his coach and the universe melting around him, I'm not real sure Cassel is an upgrade.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 07:49 PM
All things considered, Cassel's coaches, his line, his WRs and after seeing what Thigpen did with the team, his coach and the universe melting around him, I'm not real sure Cassel is an upgrade.

Thigpen choking away games?

PuppyPuncher
02-28-2009, 07:51 PM
Thigpen choking away games?

Dwayne Bowe doesn't catch an onside kick and that's on Thigpen?

I'm not saying that I like Thigpen to be the franchise QB, I just think that Cassel is the exact same as Thigpen and that they could have gotten an impact player at 34.

Splat
02-28-2009, 07:59 PM
Matt Cassel = Tyler Thigpen

Scott Pioli is an overrated GM.

Hater in the house.

PuppyPuncher
02-28-2009, 08:01 PM
Hater in the house.

It just seems like KC is all about name-dropping now.

BlindSite
02-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Thigpen choking away games?

One game, not entirely his fault is cause to question his entire future...

bored of education
02-28-2009, 08:22 PM
I still don't know how I feel about this. I do like Vrable alot!

Saints-Tigers
02-28-2009, 08:28 PM
I know it's easy to forget, but last year was Cassel's first year as a starter. When you look at what he did last year (21 TD, 11 INT, 63% comp) in terms of what you would expect out of a first year starter, I'm not sure how you could be disappointed at all.

Also, remember that he didn't have the benefit of going through training camp as the #1 guy and getting his timing down with WRs; Brady went down in week 1 and Cassel was expected to produce immediately, despite not having regular playing time since high school.

I don't think anyone knows what Cassel is truly capable of at this point, but based on the facts, I think it's reasonable to assume his ceiling is very high.

Eh, he's still been getting NFL coaching against NFL caliber players every day, he's fully matured physically, and lets not forget he was 21/11 with 63% with the same supporting cast that broke about every significant offensive record ever.

PuppyPuncher
02-28-2009, 08:36 PM
The NE Patriots have the best offense when it comes to complimenting the pass. Considering that there is no Welker in KC and Cassel didn't like throwing to Moss (Bowe), I'd say he's doomed for failure.

bored of education
02-28-2009, 08:42 PM
The NE Patriots have the best offense when it comes to complimenting the pass. Considering that there is no Welker in KC and Cassel didn't like throwing to Moss (Bowe), I'd say he's doomed for failure.

Explain the Bowe to Moss? Bowe is a guy who can take it across the middle, gets both yards after the catch and yards after contact. Bowe can be a deep threat and a possession guy.

ElectricEye
02-28-2009, 10:02 PM
Solid deal for both teams. Cassel is probably worth a bit more, but it doesn't matter how much he's worth if noones paying that price. I can live with the third pick in the second round very easily. Sets us up well in the draft. Sad to see Vrabel go as well, but he's lost more than a few steps so it makes sense.

vidae
02-28-2009, 10:20 PM
You actually have the second pick in the second round. You got the 34th overall.

D-Unit
02-28-2009, 10:32 PM
Cassell is worth WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more. Way to go Pioli.

...
02-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Sure he played on a great team, but I highly doubt Tyler Thigpen goes 11-5 on that team

Why not? Anything you can say negative about Thigpen, you can say about Cassel too.

Cassel doesn't seem like anything more than a weak armed system QB.

TonyGfortheTD
02-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Matt Cassel = Tyler Thigpen

Scott Pioli is an overrated GM.

What an ignorant comment.

thebow305
03-01-2009, 01:48 AM
Really? They have no good inside LB to put next to DJohnson

Haha, my bad, I was actually thinking of Cleveland.

Brain fart. Oh well, Pioli doesn't draft Linebackers that high typically, and if he is going to play inside, there is NO way an ILB in the 3-4 is worth the 3rd overall pick. Especially since they don't have another pick now until the 3rd round. The top 3 NT's (Raji, Brace, Taylor) will probably be long gone by then and then what? The NT is the most important position in the 3-4 BY FAR and if they are thinking about just putting some shmuck in the there for the mean time, then that transition is destined to fail before it even gets started.

If Curry will play OLB for them, then fine take him at #3, but if he's inside, then draft Raji at 3 to anchor the new D, and take Jasper Brinkley in the 3rd or 4th round and call it a day. That's my take.

Menardo75
03-01-2009, 02:02 AM
Haha, my bad, I was actually thinking of Cleveland.

Brain fart. Oh well, Pioli doesn't draft Linebackers that high typically, and if he is going to play inside, there is NO way an ILB in the 3-4 is worth the 3rd overall pick. Especially since they don't have another pick now until the 3rd round. The top 3 NT's (Raji, Brace, Taylor) will probably be long gone by then and then what? The NT is the most important position in the 3-4 BY FAR and if they are thinking about just putting some shmuck in the there for the mean time, then that transition is destined to fail before it even gets started.

If Curry will play OLB for them, then fine take him at #3, but if he's inside, then draft Raji at 3 to anchor the new D, and take Jasper Brinkley in the 3rd or 4th round and call it a day. That's my take.

Wasn't Tank Tyler being looked at to mostly play nose when he went pro?

vidae
03-01-2009, 02:29 AM
A lot of people think Tank can play the 3-4 nose role. Some are even saying that Dorsey can too. I'd rather give them a shot at it than drafting Raji at 3, personally.

nepg
03-01-2009, 08:02 AM
Why not? Anything you can say negative about Thigpen, you can say about Cassel too.

Cassel doesn't seem like anything more than a weak armed system QB.

No you can't. That's an extremely ignorant statement.

Thigpen can't read defenses or go through progressions (he's just completely incapable of doing it - which is why the Vikings dumped him in the first place). The Chiefs had to go to a high school offense to avoid being destroyed every week (credit Chan Gailey). If his first option wasn't open, he tucked and ran, or took a sack. He wasn't allowed to try to throw the ball away. When he had to make any real decision with the football (3rd down, 2nd quarter, 4th quarter), it almost always ended in failure. In a normal offense that can be expected to win games, Thigpen is a turnover machine. He's awful.

Cassel operated one of the most complex offenses in the NFL at full capacity. He prepared for games, read defenses, went through progressions, and won football games (11 of them). Cassel actually made decisions with the ball.

Weak-armed? That's a joke right? Cassel has a very good arm, and throws a really nice deep ball.
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Nalej
03-01-2009, 08:17 AM
^^^ I agree with 99.9% of that statement.

On deep routes... I can't count how many times Moss was WIDE OPEN downfield alone and Cassel just couldn't get it to him.
He connected a couple of times... but missed alot of times.
Randy's just too fast... that was the excuse I kept telling myself

Rjspartan
03-01-2009, 08:21 AM
this is like when Shocky was traded to the saints. it was a good deal for both teams because the pats really don't need a backup worth 14mil and the Cheifs needed a QB.

nepg
03-01-2009, 08:24 AM
A lot of it was timing. There were also times when Moss dropped a perfectly placed ball, and times Cassel overthrew him. I don't think it's about arm strength as much as they just didn't have enough time together to have great timing... That's one of the big things that separates Brady from Cassel...Tom has an insane ability to quickly get in sync with receivers. NE fans were a bit spoiled in that department.
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dhp318
03-01-2009, 08:45 AM
A lot of it was timing. There were also times when Moss dropped a perfectly placed ball, and times Cassel overthrew him. I don't think it's about arm strength as much as they just didn't have enough time together to have great timing... That's one of the big things that separates Brady from Cassel...Tom has an insane ability to quickly get in sync with receivers. NE fans were a bit spoiled in that department.

No, Cassel just has a ridiculously horrible deep ball. I drafted Randy in the 1st round in fantasy, and after watching the pats for almost 15 games, I can tell you that not only can Cassel not hit anyone deep with any accuracy, but also struggles to throw fades to perhaps the player in the league with the highest vertical reach.

nepg
03-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Moss was the only guy he had to throw to deep, and he was always double or triple-covered. I can tell you're a jaded fantasy football fan. Randy dropped as many deep balls as Cassel missed on. And it's not like Cassel got much chance to throw it deep since Moss was the only guy the Pats had to go downfield with. The Chiefs' have much better and more versatile receiving options outside of their Top 2 guys than the Pats had. Bradley, Bowe, and Gonzalez (pepper in Darling and Franklin) can all get deep.
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NIN1984
03-01-2009, 09:26 AM
I didn't see every Cassel game but from what I did see he looked pretty good. I think he could be a pretty good QB in Kansas City with the new coaching staff they just need to fix the O-line and figure out what's up with LJ.

Matthew Jones
03-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Here's my Scott Wright-style scouting report:

QB Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs (6'5", 230, 4.80)

Strengths: Very smart player...has learned from some great coaches and players over the years...was a top recruit coming out of high school...has good size...can control the huddle and lead a team...hard worker...very athletic and offers some ability to run for the first down, having played some tight end in college...pretty accurate in his throws...makes nice reads for a young player...started looking a lot more comfortable as the year went on...very tough and stood tall in the pocket despite getting sacked a lot...made some clutch plays at the end of games last year...still hasn't gotten near his full potential.

Weaknesses: Very little experience, with pretty much just one season in the pros and no starting experience in college...deep ball can really sail on him and he has trouble with accuracy going long...did not work under center a lot in New England's unique pro offense...takes some time getting rid of the ball, which led to a lot of those sacks...the question everyone wants answered is whether or not he is a product of New England's system.

Notes: Was able to come in after Tom Brady got hurt and filled in admirably...New England's coaching staff and players have had nothing but good things to say about Cassel, who really came into his own at the end of the season...arguably one of the best quarterbacks in the AFC after only one year as a starter and should continue to get better...there were talks about Josh McDaniels trading Jay Cutler away in order to bring this guy in so that should tell you something...could be a Pro Bowl quarterback with some more development and is a relatively safe alternative to Matthew Stafford and Mark Sanchez, but probably doesn't have the upside of either...when it comes down to it, he has all the intangibles you want in a quarterback.

2008: 327/516 (63.4%), 3,693 yards, 21 TD, 11 INT, 89.4 rating

Burger
03-01-2009, 01:31 PM
Aaron Rodgers pwned Cassel in all cases. Cassel will prove he is nothing but a product of Belichek's genius.

D-Unit
03-01-2009, 02:04 PM
So how was a 2nd rounder the best the Pats could do? If I was MIN, TB, NYJ... I would've offered my 1st. If I was DET, I would've offered my 2nd... at least.

StorminNorman
03-01-2009, 02:37 PM
I think its clear that neither Tampa Bay or Minnesota (or Detroit) wanted Matt Cassel.

Makes me think that many doubt his ability to play out of New England's offense.