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ljk2171
03-02-2009, 07:47 AM
It seems like each draft there is a player who is commonly thought of as a lock for the second round, but gets their name called at the end of the first round. Last year was Duane Brown, even though I vaguely remember Scott having him in the first for his last mock.

For me this season it is Jarron Gilbert, who think could be the top 3-4 DE in the draft. He certainly has the size (6'5, 288) and athleticism (checkout youtube for the clip of him jumping out of the pool). He basically lived in WAC backfields last year recording 22 tackles for loss, is a sure tackler, still has a lot of room for improvement which is scary, and can still add some weight. More importantly looking at the end of the draft, 3-4 teams like Pittsburgh, Miami, New England and Baltimore are all good fits. The Titans will be looking to replace Haynesworth, the Eagles are always looking for defensive linemen, the Colts and Falcons also need help on the defensive line making them options. Just throwing them out there, who do you think will follow in Duane Brown's footsteps.

Addict
03-02-2009, 07:59 AM
good point about his athletic ability. I always felt that the 'jump out of a pool'-drill was underrated. He absutely burned water there, man. You can't deny that kind of skill. The way he came outta that water, man I can just imagine him jumping over an offensive lineman and landing on a QB's head like a freakin' bomb coming out of a B52, you know?

BuddyCHRIST
03-02-2009, 08:22 AM
good point about his athletic ability. I always felt that the 'jump out of a pool'-drill was underrated. He absutely burned water there, man. You can't deny that kind of skill. The way he came outta that water, man I can just imagine him jumping over an offensive lineman and landing on a QB's head like a freakin' bomb coming out of a B52, you know?

I see what you did there

bitonti
03-02-2009, 08:48 AM
my nominees are Connor Barwin and William Beatty

Halsey
03-02-2009, 08:51 AM
I've seen Gilbert in the first round of at least a couple of mocks.

How about this year's version of Joe Flacco: Rhett Bomar

I don't remember Flacco getting mocked into the first round much. I don't believe he was mocked into the first at all until late into the process. Bomar is a talented QB prospect in a weak class. His main knocks are questions raised about his character, but his trouble came early in his college career and he's stayed out of trouble since according to what I've read. Maybe a team that needs a QB could trade back into the first to get him. I could see his stock rising over the coming weeks.

art vandelay
03-02-2009, 09:03 AM
I'll throw Robert Ayers out there. I also like Barwin to go in the 1st.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
I'll throw Robert Ayers out there. I also like Barwin to go in the 1st.

Yeah I actually think Ayers will go in the early 20's also I think Sidbury has a shot to go in the late first, teams will fall in love when they watch him work out, and his game film albeit against inferior competition is great. Also if you want to call it the "next Dustin Keller," Jared Cook especially and Shawn Nelson have a shot to go late round 1. I think we could also be surprised and see someone like Loadholt go late round 1.

Grizzlegom
03-02-2009, 09:36 AM
if a run on receivers begins, i could see Robiskie being the guy that gets in, maybe to Indy if jerry is gone.

If there's a run on OTs like last year, guys like meredith, beatty, and Loadholt could get in.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 10:13 AM
Jarron Gilbert is actually approaching overrated status. has anyone ever seen him go against top competition? the WAC level of OL prospects is pretty shabby. Has anyone seen him actually play football? He can jump out of a pool whoop-de-doo.

JRTPlaya21
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
Yeah I actually think Ayers will go in the early 20's also I think Sidbury has a shot to go in the late first, teams will fall in love when they watch him work out, and his game film albeit against inferior competition is great. Also if you want to call it the "next Dustin Keller," Jared Cook especially and Shawn Nelson have a shot to go late round 1. I think we could also be surprised and see someone like Loadholt go late round 1.

Oh man do I love Sidbury.

ljk2171
03-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Jarron Gilbert is actually approaching overrated status. has anyone ever seen him go against top competition? the WAC level of OL prospects is pretty shabby. Has anyone seen him actually play football? He can jump out of a pool whoop-de-doo.

I understand the level of competition, but 22 tackles for loss is impressive. I think he is an ideal fit as a 3-4 DE.

I agree on the Robert Ayers posts, I do think he has worked his way into the first round.

Mr.Regular
03-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Donald Brown, Louis Delmas, William Moore, Rashad Johnson, Patrick Chung, Jared Cook, Shawn Nelson, Brian Robiskie, Robert Ayers, Paul Kruger, Connor Barwin, Lawrence Sidbury, Sean Smith, Jamon Meredith, Phil Loadholt, and Jarron Gilbert are players that aren't usually in the first round of mocks but I could see situations where they could squeeze in there.

Solomon
03-02-2009, 01:04 PM
My latest mock draft has Connor Barwin, William Beatty, Jared Cook and Sean Smith all going in the first round.

619
03-02-2009, 01:09 PM
Jared Cook is a logical choice. I also see William Moore recouping some of his stock and getting himself back into a late - first scenario as well.

wonderbredd24
03-02-2009, 01:14 PM
Clay Matthews Jr.

619
03-02-2009, 01:16 PM
Clay Matthews Jr.

Forgot him. He's definitely a possibility!

JohnCandy
03-02-2009, 02:53 PM
DT Ron Brace, the guy is a slug and might go 1st round.

Strongside
03-02-2009, 02:56 PM
Jarron Gilbert is pretty much an ideal fit for what the Steelers are looking for. If all the tackles are gone I would not be surprised at all if we took him.

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 03:17 PM
William Beatty, if he was more physically developed he'd be passing Oher and Andre Smith right now. As is he's too light, but an NFL S&C staff will fix that problem. What impresses me most how well he does in the running game with his slight frame, He gets a great push off the snap and doesn't let people disengage. Not even going into his fast feet and great punch in pass pro.

Shane P. Hallam
03-02-2009, 03:18 PM
I agree on Beatty. LT, high upside, I have him penned as 20.

BmoreBlackByrdz
03-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Brian Robiske to the Colts or even Giants.

TheDoctor8
03-02-2009, 03:28 PM
good point about his athletic ability. I always felt that the 'jump out of a pool'-drill was underrated. He absutely burned water there, man. You can't deny that kind of skill. The way he came outta that water, man I can just imagine him jumping over an offensive lineman and landing on a QB's head like a freakin' bomb coming out of a B52, you know?

God help NFL quarterbacks if instead of a grass field the game is played in an Olympic size swimming pool.

etk
03-02-2009, 03:32 PM
Connor Barwin in the 1st round....NO WAI!

Everyone else...yah sure. (minus Mr. Regular's ridiculously long list)

nepg
03-02-2009, 04:27 PM
DT Ron Brace, the guy is a slug and might go 1st round.

Ya, Brace is the best candidate for this. With Connor Barwin, people will be "wow", not "wtf?" like they were with Duane Brown. Connor Barwin is the Matt Jones or Chris Johnson of this draft. People know he's a first round physical-athletic talent, but it's unknown where he'll be drafted.

I think Gilbert's already in the first, and Cook wouldn't be a huge surprise considering his production and workout numbers.

Clay Matthews is also already in the first (Dolphins at 25 at worst, imo).

Brace is a first round talen who people are discounting because of Raji. But Brace has done a hell of a job all year and looked amazing without Raji in 2007. He could easily be taken in the first round.

I think Alex Boone is another candidate for this. Think he's not worth the risk for the Cardinals or Steelers?
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Malaka
03-02-2009, 04:36 PM
Alex Boone will be lucky if he will get drafted... period.

nepg
03-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Alex Boone will be lucky if he will get drafted... period.

He'll get drafted. He's done way too well leading up to the draft... I'd love to see teams' draft boards. I bet every team has him in a different spot.

I will say, though, if he was black, he might be out of the draft. Teams will just look at him and say he's got a wild side or a nasty streak, and turn around and give it a +. If he was black, he'd have much bigger red flags.
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BigBanger
03-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Alex Boone will be lucky if he will get drafted... period.
Same thing for Philip Loadholt.

These names should not be brought up in this topic.

Sidbury is a good name. Gilbert is getting a lot attention now.

BigBanger
03-02-2009, 04:48 PM
He'll get drafted. He's done way too well leading up to the draft... I'd love to see teams' draft boards. I bet every team has him in a different spot.

I will say, though, if he was black, he might be out of the draft. Teams will just look at him and say he's got a wild side or a nasty streak, and turn around and give it a +. If he was black, he'd have much bigger red flags.
You're right. Black athletes with off field issues never get taken in the first round. Or the second. Or the third.

NFL is loaded with racist pricks.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 05:49 PM
Same thing for Philip Loadholt.


I would like to argue the other side of that. Loadholt is a poor man's Marcus McNeil. played OT at Oklahoma, went to Senior Bowl and Combine unlike George Robinson. The pro's don't traditional value "fat" players but PL's actually in decent shape for a dude who's 6'8". his arms are huge, im too lazy to look it up but well over 37" - on the field his best position is actually left tackle. excellent run blocker, average pass blocker but a format like 1 on 1 drills doesn't favor a Loadholt or a Herman Johnson. both could be decent players in the NFL and both get drafted. Im not saying use a first rounder on the guy but a draft pick is looking likely.

etk
03-02-2009, 06:35 PM
I think Alex Boone is another candidate for this. Think he's not worth the risk for the Cardinals or Steelers?

Not at all. I wouldn't draft Boone if he was Tim Tebow off the field. He has some of the stiffest hips I've ever seen in an OT and any decent speed rusher could beat him to the outside.

Loadholt was overrated last year up until the Fiesta Bowl, but he's becoming more underrated by the day. We're talking about a 6'8 mountain of a man with a solid build, natural strength and surprisingly good athletic ability. His knocks are his lack of experience and subsequent lack of fundamentals and technique, as well as his lazy feet. He has every bit of LT potential, he just needs to be coached to get lower, dip and move his feet. He gets beat because he's a big guy and he gets lazy with his footwork and pass pro. That can be coached.

I'd take his upside over Beatty or Britton any day. Especially Beatty who looks like a twig and gets pushed around by 240 pounders.

Solomon
03-02-2009, 11:29 PM
William Beatty, if he was more physically developed he'd be passing Oher and Andre Smith right now. As is he's too light, but an NFL S&C staff will fix that problem. What impresses me most how well he does in the running game with his slight frame, He gets a great push off the snap and doesn't let people disengage. Not even going into his fast feet and great punch in pass pro.

Beatty showed up to the combine at a very impressive 307lbs. 16 lbs more than at the Senior Bowl. That's just two pounds lighter than Monroe, Oher and Smith. He also performed better than Monroe and Oher at almost all the drills and put up 27 reps on the bench, very nice for somebody with arms as long as his.

I really think some team will take him in the first round. Right now I think it's going to the New York Giants but that's mere conjecture.

brat316
03-02-2009, 11:36 PM
William Beatty, will go in the first, he is a lock for the second but can slip into the first if OT, runs thin at the middle to bottom of the draft.

Texas Homer
03-03-2009, 12:10 AM
OLB Clay Matthews has a shot to sneak into the late 1st round.

thebow305
03-03-2009, 12:54 AM
I've been saying Sean Smith for quite some time. And I'm sticking to it! Mark it down!

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 03:39 PM
I've seen Gilbert in the first round of at least a couple of mocks.

How about this year's version of Joe Flacco: Rhett Bomar

I don't remember Flacco getting mocked into the first round much. I don't believe he was mocked into the first at all until late into the process. Bomar is a talented QB prospect in a weak class. His main knocks are questions raised about his character, but his trouble came early in his college career and he's stayed out of trouble since according to what I've read. Maybe a team that needs a QB could trade back into the first to get him. I could see his stock rising over the coming weeks.

Bomar isn't close to Flacco as a prospect. If you watched the Senior Bowl practices for QB's, you saw clearly that Bomar has serious accuracy problems and character is the least of his problems. He will be extremely lucky to go in round 3 IMO.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 03:43 PM
Beatty showed up to the combine at a very impressive 307lbs. 16 lbs more than at the Senior Bowl. That's just two pounds lighter than Monroe, Oher and Smith. He also performed better than Monroe and Oher at almost all the drills and put up 27 reps on the bench, very nice for somebody with arms as long as his.

I really think some team will take him in the first round. Right now I think it's going to the New York Giants but that's mere conjecture.

Beatty's problem is he has no hand punch and cannot handle the physical side of the game. He is going to need a lot of weight training and serious coaching if he wants to be aq starter at the next level. Because he has no hand punch, it allows defenders to get to his body quite easily and negates his excellent footwork. He has the athleticism to be a pro LT but right now he still needs a hugh amount of work.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 03:47 PM
Not at all. I wouldn't draft Boone if he was Tim Tebow off the field. He has some of the stiffest hips I've ever seen in an OT and any decent speed rusher could beat him to the outside.

Loadholt was overrated last year up until the Fiesta Bowl, but he's becoming more underrated by the day. We're talking about a 6'8 mountain of a man with a solid build, natural strength and surprisingly good athletic ability. His knocks are his lack of experience and subsequent lack of fundamentals and technique, as well as his lazy feet. He has every bit of LT potential, he just needs to be coached to get lower, dip and move his feet. He gets beat because he's a big guy and he gets lazy with his footwork and pass pro. That can be coached.

I'd take his upside over Beatty or Britton any day. Especially Beatty who looks like a twig and gets pushed around by 240 pounders.

I don't agree. Loadholt could be an excellent RT in the NFL if he learns to play lower as you suggest but he doesn't have the feet to ever play LT at the next level, not even close.

gpngc
03-03-2009, 03:48 PM
We should bump this thread once the draft gets closer.

My guesses: Pat White and Donald Brown.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 03:55 PM
I would like to argue the other side of that. Loadholt is a poor man's Marcus McNeil. played OT at Oklahoma, went to Senior Bowl and Combine unlike George Robinson. The pro's don't traditional value "fat" players but PL's actually in decent shape for a dude who's 6'8". his arms are huge, im too lazy to look it up but well over 37" - on the field his best position is actually left tackle. excellent run blocker, average pass blocker but a format like 1 on 1 drills doesn't favor a Loadholt or a Herman Johnson. both could be decent players in the NFL and both get drafted. Im not saying use a first rounder on the guy but a draft pick is looking likely.

Loadholt will never be a LT at the next level, your own description proves that "average pass blocker". His future is at RT where I believe he will be an excellent pro but he does need to learn to play lower. Right now he plays way too high and can easily be beat by fast pro DE's. 1 on 1 drills are crucial if you want to play OT in the NFL. Loadholt has enough that he is worth developing. IMO Johnson doesn't stand a chance. He has no lateral movement needed to be a pro OLmen.

etk
03-03-2009, 07:25 PM
I don't agree. Loadholt could be an excellent RT in the NFL if he learns to play lower as you suggest but he doesn't have the feet to ever play LT at the next level, not even close.

His feet are no worse than Jake Long or Bryant McKinnie, he's just lazy and has poor technique. He could be a solid LT in 2-3 years. Never say never with a guy with his size, frame and athletic ability.

BigBanger
03-03-2009, 07:33 PM
Loadholt will never be a LT at the next level, your own description proves that "average pass blocker". His future is at RT where I believe he will be an excellent pro but he does need to learn to play lower. Right now he plays way too high and can easily be beat by fast pro DE's. 1 on 1 drills are crucial if you want to play OT in the NFL. Loadholt has enough that he is worth developing. IMO Johnson doesn't stand a chance. He has no lateral movement needed to be a pro OLmen.
Mayock throws the term 'heavy-legged-waist-bender' around quite a bit. Loadhoalt is the prime example of that. He can't get low because he doesn't have the knee bend to do it. He has a non-existent kick slide. He has slow feet (basically, he can't pass protect at all). He plays with terrible leverage and no technique, so he wont even be good in the running game, and for a guy his size, that's a big problem. Loadhoalt is a terrible prospect. 7th rounder... if that.

He's as bad a prospect as Herman Johnson (who I'm shocked looked terrible during this off-season... not!!!!). Both those guys are big, slow morons who can't get out of their own way.

Neither are starters in the NFL.

etk
03-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Mayock throws the term 'heavy-legged-waist-bender' around quite a bit. Loadhoalt is the prime example of that. He can't get low because he doesn't have the knee bend to do it. He has a non-existent kick slide. He has slow feet (basically, he can't pass protect at all). He plays with terrible leverage and no technique, so he wont even be good in the running game, and for a guy his size, that's a big problem. Loadhoalt is a terrible prospect. 7th rounder... if that.

He's as bad a prospect as Herman Johnson (who I'm shocked looked terrible during this off-season... not!!!!). Both those guys are big, slow morons who can't get out of their own way.

Neither are starters in the NFL.

I agree with those comments as directed to Herman Johnson. I don't agree with all of it regarding Loadholt.

Loadholt is a legit 6'8" and doesn't wanna bend his knees. He got by on physical ability in college and played lazy because of it. I don't think he's incapable of learning a proper kickslide with knee-bend, but right now he hasn't developed it. He doesn't have quick feet like Smith or Monroe, but he's not slow either. Again, he's pretty good for his size. His technique and leverage are horrible, that I can agree on.

Loadholt is not a 7th round pick and he's not a "big, slow moron". That's a huge overstatement and takes away from all the decent arguments you had in your post. I don't think Herman Johnson is a draftable prospect, but you can't just group him in with Loadholt because of his size. One started a couple years at LG, the other started both years at LT coming out of JC for a team that made the NC. Oklahoma had a pretty talented line with good depth and Loadholt can't be a "big, slow moron" if he occupied the most coveted and vital position of the line, protecting a Heisman QB.

Hines
03-03-2009, 07:44 PM
What about Pat White?

StaticGator
03-04-2009, 10:39 AM
How high can Evander Hood go?

brat316
03-04-2009, 10:42 AM
How high can Evander Hood go?

probably late first, but I think he'll stay in the second round.

gpngc
03-04-2009, 03:46 PM
What about Pat White?

If Matt Jones can go in round one, Pat White can go in round one.

Malaka
03-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Matt Jones is 6'5 and ran a 4.4...

Pat White is 6'0 and ran a 4.5...

I like Pat White but he will be a late 2nd/3rd rounder IMO.

I think Sean Smith will go in the 1st, thus giving him this award I guess.