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View Full Version : what happened to Everette Brown?


bitonti
03-02-2009, 03:38 PM
The guy was a stud at Florida State, one of the most dynamic pass rushers in the country, all he does is make plays, has a very solid combine (4th fastest 40), and Mayock doesn't have him in his top 20?? Don Banks has him going late first in his SI mock? I don't get it.

Can someone explain to me why Everette Brown isn't considered an elite prospect? Is it purely because he's 6'2" not 6'4"? Really? what am I missing?

when I look at film of Everette Brown i see shades of a healthy Shawne merriman. i guess it's just me...

ThePudge
03-02-2009, 03:40 PM
He's still a very highly rated prospect and by most accounts, a Top 15-20 pick. It's tough to see him drop out of the Top 10 with Green Bay and San Francisco aligned in the 3-4, even tougher to see him out of the Top 15 with Buffalo interested in generating a pass-rush from the DE spot, with Denver now moving to the 3-4, and also with Washington needing an outside pass-rush.

Shane P. Hallam
03-02-2009, 03:41 PM
He isn't all that strong is a big issue IMO. Combine that with size (Merriman is about 275, Brown is not even close,) and he is just a bit raw. Honestly, I still think he COULD go #5, but we will see.

BigBanger
03-02-2009, 03:48 PM
He's actually 6'1'' and not even 250 pounds. He's a speed rusher. A situational guy no different than Antwan Barnes really. Like all FSU guys they're all incredibly raw and get by on their pure athleticism. That doesn't cut in the pros. Ask Kamerion Wimbley. It's hard to get the QB in the NFL when you try to run by every OT on every play. Being predictable and lacking any kind pass rush repertoire is worst thing an undersize, one-dimensional, speed rusher can be.

Guys can come into the league and have instant success with a speed rush and nothing more, but to be great, or even consistent, you need to have size, technique, and a variety of moves. It's also nice to see a guy hold the point of attack consistently.

If he didn't play at FSU he would have never been as highly rated as he was. He might have to take the same route as Lawrence Timmons. ILB in a 34 defense. I don't think he's athletic enough or experienced to play OLB in a base 43 defense to be taken in the first 3 rounds. I don't think he has the size to rush the passer in any scheme as an every down player. So what is he?

I have a lot of question marks about him, and that means there's a greater chance he fails. His athletic ability will get him drafted in the first two rounds, but nothing more.

BeerBaron
03-02-2009, 03:53 PM
If he's available at 18 and the Oher is not, his fall stops there imo. With the way the Bears like their DEs and with Marinelli as the new d-line coach, I think Everette would be a great pick up by them there. I think he could be to our defense was Simeon Rice was the Bucs of a few years back.

I really don't get the hate either, but I guess it's better for me, heh. And for what its worth, Everette >>>>>>>>> Maybin. And this is from a PSU fan.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 03:53 PM
He's actually 6'1'' and not even 250 pounds. He's a speed rusher. A situational guy no different than Antwan Barnes really. Like all FSU guys they're all incredibly raw and get by on their pure athleticism. That doesn't cut in the pros.

official combine numbers have him at 6014 256 and he's got moves. He's moves for his moves. Swim, rip, push pull, spin he's got all those. Rak is the Bull Rush only guy.

but I guess more people are seeing it your way than seeing it my way. maybe 4-3 teams see him as an OLB? Someone's gonna get a steal. ask me, he's basically the best pass rusher in the draft.

nobodyinparticular
03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
He's actually 6'1'' and not even 250 pounds.

Just to clarify, Brown came it at 6' 1 1/2" and 256 lbs at the Combine.

Then he put up one of the better numbers on the bench press.

Is he raw? Sure. Yes, he's basically 6'1" but his weight (i.e. his bulk ratio of weight to height) is not really that bad. With an extra two and a half inches, Orakpo is only 7 lbs heavier.

etk
03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
He isn't all that strong is a big issue IMO. Combine that with size (Merriman is about 275, Brown is not even close,) and he is just a bit raw. Honestly, I still think he COULD go #5, but we will see.

Everette Brown was one of the nastiest bull rushers in college this year. He's a complete pass rusher. I've seen him beat his man 3/4/5 straight times, each time with a different move. You can't just label him as "another FSU athlete". Do they all share the same genetics and grow up in the same facility? Are they given secret potions to make them "athaletes"? Everette Brown is not Kamerion Wimbley, and vice versa.

I hate to go down that road, but a guy named Freeney from Syracuse wasn't the biggest guy either....

In a weak class like this, Brown should be a top-5 pick for sure.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
He isn't all that strong is a big issue IMO.


again, 26 reps at the combine would say different. He's not the incredible hulk but alot of guys didn't even lift. Ayers only had 18.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 03:55 PM
In a weak class like this, Brown should be a top-5 pick for sure.


thank you on this we agree 100%

bored of education
03-02-2009, 03:56 PM
I have EB rated in the 7-12 range overall. I am HUGE fan of his. When people were projecting KC to take RAK, I was dead set on telling them to give KC EB before Rak Mommy. Could still get drafted at 5 by Clevleland.

Dont kill me though, I wouldnt mind him in KC

nyqua
03-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Benching is more endurance than pure strength. They should have prospects show their max bench/squat at the combine instead.

brat316
03-02-2009, 04:25 PM
Benching is more endurance than pure strength. They should have prospects show their max bench/squat at the combine instead.

ahahh so they can get injured, no prospect would even take part in it. Strength is great to have but it can be built. Thats why coaches aren't as worried about it, they have strength and conditioning program to put these players in.


It also helps to show work ethic, like the kicker from USC putting it up 25 times.

Babylon
03-02-2009, 04:28 PM
I think his size is going to push him to a 3-4 OLB so when compared to linebackers his numbers are ok but not spectacular. I think a bunch of guys deciding to stay in school have probably helped guys like Brown and Maybin move up maybe higher than they should. I'd propably be more of a buyer of the OTs and the Wrs in this draft before i got into the OLBs but to each his own.

BigBanger
03-02-2009, 04:36 PM
Just to clarify, Brown came it at 6' 1 1/2" and 256 lbs at the Combine.

Then he put up one of the better numbers on the bench press.

Is he raw? Sure. Yes, he's basically 6'1" but his weight (i.e. his bulk ratio of weight to height) is not really that bad. With an extra two and a half inches, Orakpo is only 7 lbs heavier.
I don't really know the knocks on Orakpo (Other than he was a late bloomer and being raw), but I would venture to say that his maxed-out frame is a concern. It's a big reason why I don't have him in the top 10. I can't speak for scouts, but I see his size, and I push him out of the top 10.

Brown being 6'1'' brings a lot question marks. Very few players play DE or OLB (34) at 6'1''. Brown has an elite first step and the burst and ability to turn the corner of a top 10 pick. He has a very good spin move. Everyone knows that, and for that you get Dwight Freeney comparisons.

The guy got a ton of sacks against VERY SLOW tackles and guards that just couldn't match up with his speed and athletic ability. Against NFL tackles it just ain't going to be that easy, and his size will be something he has to overcome. He's never had to overcome his size. His athletic ability always put the opposing guy at a disadvantage. Now, he's going to see much stronger, faster, and BIGGER tackles at the next level. If he faced a 6'5'' guy in college, that guy couldn't move at all and Brown would just run around him, then hit him with a spin.

I really don't see him being anything more than a situational guy. I could see him putting up some sacks and having a successful career if he lands in the right situation, but I don't want a guy that's 6'1'' playing 60 downs for my team at DE or OLB.

superman
03-02-2009, 05:03 PM
besides batting a ball down, how does being short hurt a pass rusher? wouldn't it actually help leverage wise?

mqtirishfan
03-02-2009, 05:07 PM
again, 26 reps at the combine would say different. He's not the incredible hulk but alot of guys didn't even lift. Ayers only had 18.

Who is arguing that Ayers is better than Brown?

umphrey
03-02-2009, 05:35 PM
It doesn't matter where people have him ranked, he's one of the players that will get "reached" for during draft day because he's a pretty low risk prospect that has a chance to make a big impact. It doesn't hurt that lots of teams are in dire need of a 3-4 rush OLB that can make a splash.

bored of education
03-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Who is arguing that Ayers is better than Brown?

he was just proving that people are not saying Ayers is weak, yet someone brought up the fact the Brown may be weak? I might be wrong!

TheBuffaloBills
03-02-2009, 05:40 PM
He is one of my favorite players in the draft. I think he is more of a Dwight Freeney tight player rather than Merriman. Everette Brown has an amazing repertoire of pass rush moves. I have seen him get a sack by running around, and not even getting touched by the OT. He has one of the best burst of the line in this years draft.

bitonti
03-02-2009, 05:41 PM
I don't want to be accused starting spreading rumors but it's my experience when several "insiders" all of a sudden stop ranking a guy highly that was previously thought to be ranked highly it's either drugs or injuries. either Mike Mayock doesn't understand the value of a pass rusher or someone failed a medical or drug test. again I have no inside info but this would make sense.

nyqua
03-02-2009, 05:41 PM
ahahh so they can get injured, no prospect would even take part in it. Strength is great to have but it can be built. Thats why coaches aren't as worried about it, they have strength and conditioning program to put these players in.


It also helps to show work ethic, like the kicker from USC putting it up 25 times.

They really won't get injured by trying to get one rep of a lot of weight....

foozball
03-02-2009, 05:41 PM
meh...6'1 1/2 is basically 6'2. he's in cleats too. i dont think height is such a big issue unless his arms are really short.

superman
03-02-2009, 06:04 PM
They really won't get injured by trying to get one rep of a lot of weight....

it's more likely than you think. everybody trying to out do one another. prob more misses than successful lifts.

keylime_5
03-02-2009, 06:04 PM
He reminds me a lot of Dwight Freeney. He looks bigger than his listed weight, and 6-2/256 is plenty big for a 3-4 outside 'backer. The fact that Kokinis is reportedly "wary of Orakpo's injury history" and that Brown has reportedly "caught the Browns eye" (not clear what that means about where they value him though) makes me think that he is viable option at #5 over Orakpo should we decide to pick an OLB. IMO he's a top 20 lock with the potential to sneak into the top 10. He is raw, but he has a lot of pass rush moves that can be developed into pro bowl stuff. The vertical and broad jump #s might worry some I guess, as well as the closing speed from the edge to the QB.

Menardo75
03-02-2009, 06:04 PM
I still think he would look great in the red and gold :).

goonie61
03-02-2009, 06:18 PM
ahahh so they can get injured, no prospect would even take part in it. Strength is great to have but it can be built. Thats why coaches aren't as worried about it, they have strength and conditioning program to put these players in.


It also helps to show work ethic, like the kicker from USC putting it up 25 times.

Maybe they should not do their max, but the weight SHOULD be increased. I mean everyone does at least more than 15 reps which is already a measure of endurance. They should bench 275 or 300, and if you cant do it than you cant do it, not a big deal. In fact even with that weight it will still measure endurance for most guys.

Also, everyone coming out of college gets stronger. Therefore how strong you are initially is critically important because eveyone else will be strength training just as hard as you are. For example, Manny Lawson struggles as a pass rusher partely because he did not have enough strength coming out of college.

ThePudge
03-02-2009, 06:20 PM
Brown being 6'1'' brings a lot question marks. Very few players play DE or OLB (34) at 6'1''.


Everette Brown is right around 6'2 1/2 260 in cleats & pads and listed as such. The NFL could list him at 6'2 or 6'3. A few players you may or may not have heard of...

James Harrison, the league's defensive MVP, stands at 6'0 242. Robert Mathis is 6'2 245. LaMarr Woodley, listed at 6'2 265, measured in right around the same height at the Combine as Everette Brown though never played with the natural athleticism Brown shows. Dwight Freeney is 6'1 268. Parys Haralson is 6'0 255. Elvis Dumervil, had a down year in 2008, but had 21.0 Sacks in his first two years. There's six good to very good pass-rushers from both the DE or OLB position right around the same size or smaller than Everette Brown.
.

superman
03-02-2009, 06:38 PM
Maybe they should not do their max, but the weight SHOULD be increased. I mean everyone does at least more than 15 reps which is already a measure of endurance. They should bench 275 or 300, and if you cant do it than you cant do it, not a big deal. In fact even with that weight it will still measure endurance for most guys.

Also, everyone coming out of college gets stronger. Therefore how strong you are initially is critically important because eveyone else will be strength training just as hard as you are. For example, Manny Lawson struggles as a pass rusher partely because he did not have enough strength coming out of college.

250 is more likely

nfl did that during a couple pro bowl contests

RWills
03-02-2009, 06:49 PM
9'-6" for broad jump bummed me out, I thought he would of hit 10'-6" easy. Would like to know why we dont have a vertical number on him, does he have Crable thin legs? that can hurt him.

etk
03-02-2009, 06:51 PM
225 is popular because it's 2 45 lb. plates. To lift 250 you have to put on 2 45s, 2 10s and 2 2.5s....that's annoying.

275 would be the most logical successor because you add on 2 25s. That's a lot of weight for the skill position guys though so more will opt out to avoid embarrassment.

superman
03-02-2009, 06:55 PM
you can just clip it and not mess with changing any weight the rest of the day

maybe i don't remember right but looking at highlights from this yr it didn't look like two 45's on each side. i gotta go look again.

etk
03-02-2009, 07:01 PM
you can just clip it and not mess with changing any weight the rest of the day

maybe i don't remember right but looking at highlights from this yr it didn't look like two 45's on each side. i gotta go look again.

I'm talking about training. It's just uncommon to train with high reps on the bench press lifting 250 because you have to put on the little extra plates. 225 is the tradition because it's sensible. Same with 185 (2 35s on each side).

superman
03-02-2009, 07:04 PM
idk, 275 seems like a lil much for EVERYBODY to do still. even if everybody could do it, you still want more than 2-3 reps for db's/wr's so you can compare them to other db's/wr's. the higher the weight, the less the gap is between how many each can do.

TACKLE
03-02-2009, 09:12 PM
In response to the initial question, I don't see him falling past Buffalo at #11. Best case scenario is #5 to Cleveland but I think that he'll probably end up with the Pack. I think that EB will be an elite pass rusher in the NFL.

BigBanger
03-03-2009, 09:21 AM
Everette Brown is right around 6'2 1/2 260 in cleats & pads and listed as such. The NFL could list him at 6'2 or 6'3. A few players you may or may not have heard of...

James Harrison, the league's defensive MVP, stands at 6'0 242. Robert Mathis is 6'2 245. LaMarr Woodley, listed at 6'2 265, measured in right around the same height at the Combine as Everette Brown though never played with the natural athleticism Brown shows. Dwight Freeney is 6'1 268. Parys Haralson is 6'0 255. Elvis Dumervil, had a down year in 2008, but had 21.0 Sacks in his first two years. There's six good to very good pass-rushers from both the DE or OLB position right around the same size or smaller than Everette Brown.

I'm aware there are about 10 guys under or around 6'2'' that can put up sack numbers. The two Steelers guys are the only ones on that list that play the run as effectively as the pass, and they were never considered to be elite pass rushers (Harrison wasn't considered to be a starter). Woodley was a complete prospect (Meaning you can keep him on the field on running downs too).

Maybe Brown can be a Dumervil type or a Mathis type. I see those guys as rotational guys. Pass rush specialists. I think Brown can rush the QB. He is a natural pass rusher and his explosiveness is hard to stop. But is that his best case scenario? A Mathis or a Dumervil type? 20 downs a game? 10 sacks a year (in a good, borderline great, year)? Liability against the run? I don't consider those guys top 10 caliber prospects.

There's a reason why the Julius Peppers of the world and the Mario Williams and the Chris Longs are the most coveted DEs. You want your DE no shorter than 6'3.'' Smaller than that and you see a prospect drop. You see a lot more guys listed at 6-4 or 6-5 than you do 5-11 or 6-1.

I really don't see him being anything more than a situational guy. I could see him putting up some sacks and having a successful career if he lands in the right situation, but I don't want a guy that's 6'1'' playing 60 downs for my team at DE or OLB, but that's what I expect to get out of a first round draft pick.
Maybe I should have added that. Maybe if I'm the New England Patriots and can draft role players in the first round I do it, but in the first two rounds I'm not looking for specialists and situational guys.

FrankGore
03-03-2009, 10:24 AM
I think Brown's going to be a good player, I just don't know that he will prove complete enough of a prospect to be taken as high as we once thought. He doesn't seem to play the run poorly but checking in at under 6'2 is a slight worry...pass rush is a different story because he can use his speed and moves in space to beat the tackle. Someone in this thread said he lacks for moves, which is absolutely wrong...he has the best repertoire I've seen in the past few years probably.

The 49ers know that short pass rushers can still be pretty good (Parys Haralson notched 8 sacks last year) and probably won't be TOO turned off. The question is whether they will value him enough to take him at #10. He has to be considered an elite pass rusher in order to make the team pull the trigger. He's good but I'm not sure he's QUITE there.

Realistically I think he would be a good pick for someone between 15-20.

superman
03-03-2009, 12:42 PM
why does being 6'2" hurt as a pass rusher?

Mr.Regular
03-03-2009, 02:15 PM
I really like him. I go back and forth on who I like more between him and Orakpo.
His ceiling would have to be #5and his basement #18 IMO, and that would be absolute worst case scenario.
In the end though I see him in the #9 to #13 range.

Basileus777
03-03-2009, 02:37 PM
why does being 6'2" hurt as a pass rusher?

Shorter = shorter arms. Long arms are important for pass rushers.

keylime_5
03-03-2009, 02:58 PM
Shorter = shorter arms. Long arms are important for pass rushers.

plus when your shoulder level is lower than the offensive lineman you're facing you can get overpowered easier. However with what Brown is likely gonna do (OLB pass rusher) I think 6'2" is adequate. His pass rushing tools and first step more than make up for the extra inch or two he lacks.

wonderbredd24
03-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Shorter = shorter arms. Long arms are important for pass rushers.

Except Everette Brown's arms are 33" long... which is just as long as Robert Ayers and only half an inch shorter than Orakpo

Menardo75
03-03-2009, 03:04 PM
He has long arms and is a great natural pass rusher, and has multiple moves he could use.

brat316
03-03-2009, 03:14 PM
If he was playing on the line, it wouldn't work out as well. But playing the Olb spot he should be fine at least height wise. Playing right on the line it wouldn't be effective for him to swim over a bigger linemen, and his bull rush may land right into the big guys stomach.

But him playing off the line will allow him to build up enough speed to go around, his swim move will only need to be effect to get around the edge of a shoulder, or to make the linemen miss with his arms.

PossibleCabbage
03-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Everette Brown had a really bad showing in both the broad jump (9'-6") and the vertical jump (31.5") at the combine, and those are the two most important combine tests for pass rushers, since they measure "initial explosion" (possibly 2 of the 3, if you count "10-yard splits" as separate from the 40 time). That hurt his stock with a lot of experts and a lot of teams. He can rebound on his pro day, but for now I see teams like Green Bay and San Francisco having Maybin higher than Brown.

The fear is that Brown will be another Jamal Reynolds, a guy with a very quick first step with really no power behind it, so he will be blocked effectively by any NFL TE or OT that gets his hands on him. With bad numbers on the "explosion" statistics, that fear was emphasized.

phlysac
03-03-2009, 03:21 PM
Everette Brown had a really bad showing in both the broad jump and the vertical jump at the combine, and those are the two most important combine tests for pass rushers, since they measure "initial explosion". That hurt his stock with a lot of experts and a lot of teams. He can rebound on his pro day, but for now I see teams like Green Bay and San Francisco having Maybin higher than Brown.

"initial explosion" doesn't take into account how quickly a player reacts to the snap of the ball. He showed to be one of the quickest players of the ball in recent years.

Babylon
03-03-2009, 04:10 PM
Everette Brown had a really bad showing in both the broad jump (9'-6") and the vertical jump (31.5") at the combine, and those are the two most important combine tests for pass rushers, since they measure "initial explosion" (possibly 2 of the 3, if you count "10-yard splits" as separate from the 40 time). That hurt his stock with a lot of experts and a lot of teams. He can rebound on his pro day, but for now I see teams like Green Bay and San Francisco having Maybin higher than Brown.

The fear is that Brown will be another Jamal Reynolds, a guy with a very quick first step with really no power behind it, so he will be blocked effectively by any NFL TE or OT that gets his hands on him. With bad numbers on the "explosion" statistics, that fear was emphasized.

Florida State DEs scare me in general going back to guy like Wadsworth and Wimberly. They basically take LBs out of highschool and make them DEs. Brown has to be evaluated in terms of being a LB.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 04:12 PM
Mayock showed film comparing Brown to Maybin and Brown came out second best as far as a fast 1st step is concerned. I believe he was dropping even before the combine. People are simply questioning whether or not he has the speed to rush the passer on a consistent basis. He's not elite because he ran in the 4.7's but that doesn't mean he cannot be a solid pro but it raises serious questions about his upside.
I think he will be a solid pro but not great and I expect him to be drafted in the 11-18 area.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 04:13 PM
"initial explosion" doesn't take into account how quickly a player reacts to the snap of the ball. He showed to be one of the quickest players of the ball in recent years.

This is not true. Mayock compared film on Brown and Maybin concentrating on their 1st step and Brown came out second best.

Babylon
03-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Mayock showed film comparing Brown to Maybin and Brown came out second best as far as a fast 1st step is concerned. I believe he was dropping even before the combine. People are simply questioning whether or not he has the speed to rush the passer on a consistent basis. He's not elite because he ran in the 4.7's but that doesn't mean he cannot be a solid pro but it raises serious questions about his upside.
I think he will be a solid pro but not great and I expect him to be drafted in the 11-18 area.

If he was second best to Maybin then he was really behind guys like Cushing, Matthews and especially Barwin.

superman
03-03-2009, 04:22 PM
Shorter = shorter arms. Long arms are important for pass rushers.

So height doesn't matter. How did his arm length compare to other de's?

wonderbredd24
03-03-2009, 04:25 PM
If he was second best to Maybin then he was really behind guys like Cushing, Matthews and especially Barwin.

If he's going on film, Maybin was supposed to be the best in college as far as his first step explosion goes

phlysac
03-03-2009, 04:35 PM
This is not true. Mayock compared film on Brown and Maybin concentrating on their 1st step and Brown came out second best.

I never said that Maybin wasn't a freak off the snap as well. It's interesting that you mention Brown's lack of speed and how it will hurt his pass rush ability in the same post that you made a comparison to Maybin.

G08
03-03-2009, 04:59 PM
It's interesting that you mention Brown's lack of speed and how it will hurt his pass rush ability in the same post that you made a comparison to Maybin.

Beat me to it...

jnew76
03-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Someone mentioned that they have seen Robert Ayers rated higher than EB... while I can see why they would bring up that point, they are comparing apples to oranges. Ayers will be looked at by 4-3 teams to play DE and potentially 3-4 teams to play OLB. I think Brown could be a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 and an excellent prospect as a 3-4 OLB... Pass rushers are usually overdrafted which keeps EB in my top 20, but I think Ayers has a wider range of teams that could call his name, which is why I have a similar grade on both prospects.

Babylon
03-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Someone mentioned that they have seen Robert Ayers rated higher than EB... while I can see why they would bring up that point, they are comparing apples to oranges. Ayers will be looked at by 4-3 teams to play DE and potentially 3-4 teams to play OLB. I think Brown could be a situational pass rusher in a 4-3 and an excellent prospect as a 3-4 OLB... Pass rushers are usually overdrafted which keeps EB in my top 20, but I think Ayers has a wider range of teams that could call his name, which is why I have a similar grade on both prospects.

I dont think Ayers is an OLB at the next level but i do agree on grading both in the same range.

PossibleCabbage
03-03-2009, 05:24 PM
"initial explosion" doesn't take into account how quickly a player reacts to the snap of the ball. He showed to be one of the quickest players of the ball in recent years.

However, no matter how quick your first step is, if there's no power behind it you're still going to end up getting blocked by most starting NFL Tight Ends, let alone offensive tackles.

"I will consistently run around people who don't react as fast as I do", is not a good recipe for an NFL pass rusher.

wonderbredd24
03-03-2009, 05:28 PM
"I will consistently run around people who don't react as fast as I do", is not a good recipe for an NFL pass rusher.

Brian Orakpo should be nervous

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 05:32 PM
He's actually 6'1'' and not even 250 pounds. He's a speed rusher. A situational guy no different than Antwan Barnes really. Like all FSU guys they're all incredibly raw and get by on their pure athleticism. That doesn't cut in the pros. Ask Kamerion Wimbley. It's hard to get the QB in the NFL when you try to run by every OT on every play. Being predictable and lacking any kind pass rush repertoire is worst thing an undersize, one-dimensional, speed rusher can be.

Guys can come into the league and have instant success with a speed rush and nothing more, but to be great, or even consistent, you need to have size, technique, and a variety of moves. It's also nice to see a guy hold the point of attack consistently.

If he didn't play at FSU he would have never been as highly rated as he was. He might have to take the same route as Lawrence Timmons. ILB in a 34 defense. I don't think he's athletic enough or experienced to play OLB in a base 43 defense to be taken in the first 3 rounds. I don't think he has the size to rush the passer in any scheme as an every down player. So what is he?

I have a lot of question marks about him, and that means there's a greater chance he fails. His athletic ability will get him drafted in the first two rounds, but nothing more.

Great post except Brown was easily the most refined FSU DE I can remember. Unlike the long list of busts before him he doesn't jsut get by with his athleticism and actually has some very effective go to moves and counter-moves. I feel like his size is the only thing holding him back but it won't be enough to turn him into Whimbley 2.0

619
03-03-2009, 05:37 PM
Brian Orakpo should be nervous

Let's not even get to Maybin ...

Brent
03-03-2009, 05:49 PM
Let's not even get to Maybin ...
Maybin is such a polarizing prospect.

jnew76
03-03-2009, 06:05 PM
Great post except Brown was easily the most refined FSU DE I can remember. Unlike the long list of busts before him he doesn't jsut get by with his athleticism and actually has some very effective go to moves and counter-moves. I feel like his size is the only thing holding him back but it won't be enough to turn him into Whimbley 2.0

Absolutely... Wimbeley was a better athlete at the time of the draft than Brown is now, but Brown has a little better initial quickness, much better technique, and a better repetoire of pass rush moves. In fact, if he had only 2 moves he would have double the number of moves as Wimbeley has to this day.

My main problem with Brown is his ceiling (IMO) is not as high as most make it out to be. Secondly, while he is decent against the run, I don't think he will ever be "NFL good" in that area.

His positives are good though. He plays with leverage. He has excellent initial quickness. Uses his hands well. Has variety of pass rush moves, and knows how, and when to use them.

I have Brown with a little better rating than Connor Barwin. I would hypothesize that about half the NFL teams rate Barwin higher than Brown based on his superior athleticism and higher ceiling, and the other half would rate Brown higher than Barwin due to his proven ability, technique, and quickness.

Maybin is the hardest OLB to evaluate because of his narrow frame, excellent quickness, great production, but lack of technique. I also question whether he will be effective against the run in the NFL. IMO he is the one that reminds me of Wimbeley the most. which is why he is my 36th ranked prospect.

phlysac
03-03-2009, 07:48 PM
However, no matter how quick your first step is, if there's no power behind it you're still going to end up getting blocked by most starting NFL Tight Ends, let alone offensive tackles.

"I will consistently run around people who don't react as fast as I do", is not a good recipe for an NFL pass rusher.

I'm not disagreeing that having a burst is important but if a players reaction off the snap is exceptional it automatically creates a disadvantage to the offensive player because he will be more likely to be off balance trying to react to the speed.