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DJC
03-02-2009, 08:34 PM
Per a league source, Ward has agreed to terms on a four-year, $17 million deal.

He’ll earn $6 million guaranteed in the first year, $9.25 million over the first two, and $13 million over the first three.

Yay we finally signed someone. Didn't he want a Michael Turner type deal? Looks like we got him for about half that.

Beans
03-02-2009, 08:34 PM
like i said already

sexcellent

Crickett
03-02-2009, 08:39 PM
like i already said.

The Giants had 7 mil a year for Canty but not 4 for Ward. :(

BmoreBlackByrdz
03-02-2009, 08:42 PM
Wow, The Bucs are really trying to build up there offfense and taking the right steps to do so. Mark Sanchez anyone?

Giantsfan1080
03-02-2009, 08:46 PM
like i already said.

The Giants had 7 mil a year for Canty but not 4 for Ward. :(

The Giants actually turned down Ward for $3 million a season.

Chucky
03-02-2009, 08:47 PM
I really like this signing. Knocks off another need for the draft and moves us closer to the salary floor. Now we need to get crowell.

Caddy
03-02-2009, 09:04 PM
Solid signing. A great safety net in case Cadillac isn't ready to go which is a high possibility. Hopefully he forms a nice 1-2-3 punch with Caddy and Earnest Graham.

ThePudge
03-02-2009, 09:31 PM
Well, this signing really puts the pressure of Cincinnati to bring back Cedric Benson. Not all too happy to see Ward slip away, as I think he will be a good starting RB. In Tampa Bay, though, he can platoon with Ernest Graham. Good pick-up for the Bucs and typical Bengals...

etk
03-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Solid signing. A great safety net in case Cadillac isn't ready to go which is a high possibility. Hopefully he forms a nice 1-2-3 punch with Caddy and Earnest Graham.

How the hell is that gonna work out? One of the 3 is gonna get the short end of the stick. That's what I think.

Or 2 of the 3 will get injured and we'll be onto our 3rd stringer, like when we discovered Graham.

Menardo75
03-02-2009, 09:39 PM
Very solid signing by the Bucs imo need insurance incase Cadillac is done.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-02-2009, 09:48 PM
like i already said.

The Giants had 7 mil a year for Canty but not 4 for Ward. :(

Yeah because we are high on Bradshaw and Ware. Worse comes to worse we draft a rookie as well. It would beyond foolish to have brought Ward back and pay that much for him.

Splat
03-02-2009, 10:01 PM
Didn't he want a Michael Turner type deal? Looks like we got him for about half that.

Well didn't Tuner get a 6 or 7 year deal? Still nice deal but I don't think he had any where close to the value Turner had in the eyes of teams around the NFL.

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 10:01 PM
like i already said.

The Giants had 7 mil a year for Canty but not 4 for Ward. :(

We didn't even take him back for three mil per, that should tell you how confident the staff is in Bradshaw, Ware and the offensive line covering up for his loss. Plus with us having plugged our holes at LB and DT there's still a good chance we take a RB in the draft.

Brent
03-02-2009, 10:10 PM
So is Cadillac officially a bust because of injuries or something?

GET LOOSE
03-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Nice signing for the Bucs.

GET LOOSE
03-02-2009, 10:12 PM
So is Cadillac officially a bust because of injuries or something?

Hes just gets hurt to dam much. I dont think you can count on him

Crickett
03-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Yeah because we are high on Bradshaw and Ware. Worse comes to worse we draft a rookie as well. It would beyond foolish to have brought Ward back and pay that much for him.

Maintaining the #1 run game in the NFL for 10 mil (apparently 9 as Ward wanted 3 a year from the Giants) a year is "beyond foolish"?

aNYtitan
03-02-2009, 10:17 PM
Damn, low risk high reward signing for the Bucs. Very good deal for them, perfect compliment back for Cadillac and it doesn't cause a huge cap hit. I don't think Ward will be the same player he was though. He has some talent, but he doesn't have a monster of a man softening up the defense for him.

San Diego Chicken
03-02-2009, 10:25 PM
I think Ward is really talented. I've been impressed with him since last year, and he should be able to run for 1,000 yards in his sleep as a full time starter.

Shane P. Hallam
03-02-2009, 10:25 PM
He is still going to split a bit with Earnest Graham.

holt_bruce81
03-02-2009, 10:31 PM
Derrick Ward and Earnest Graham are going to make a solid Duo. Very nice signing for Tampa, Liking what their doing with that Offense.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-02-2009, 10:32 PM
Maintaining the #1 run game in the NFL for 10 mil (apparently 9 as Ward wanted 3 a year from the Giants) a year is "beyond foolish"?

Obviously the Giants and Reese feel the same way. Bradshaw is more explosive, better agility, younger, and can shake off more tackles. It is foolish to pay that much for a back when we have Bradshaw waiting. Even the little bit you see in Ware you can see his first 3 steps are explosive too. Why overpay a 29 year old when we can play and develop 2 younger backs? Clearly the Giants were thinking the same thing.

scottyboy
03-02-2009, 10:33 PM
i'm interested to see what he can do. I mean it's obvious a very LARGE percent of his success last year was running behind the Giants superb OL and running on tired D's from Jacobs trucking everyone, but kids got talent and I'm interested to see what he can do out of NY. good luck Ward, thanks for all your time here, wear that ring proud and make sure Ronde shows Tiki it...

Crickett
03-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Obviously the Giants and Reese feel the same way. Bradshaw is more explosive, better agility, younger, and can shake off more tackles. It is foolish to pay that much for a back when we have Bradshaw waiting. Even the little bit you see in Ware you can see his first 3 steps are explosive too. Why overpay a 29 year old when we can play and develop 2 younger backs? Clearly the Giants were thinking the same thing.

3 million a year for a thousand yard running back (with 5.6 ypc) hasn't been overpay since Independence Day was in theaters.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-02-2009, 10:41 PM
3 million a year for a thousand yard running back (with 5.6 ypc) hasn't been overpay since Independence Day was in theaters.

Yeah but he running behind an elite OL, and elite FB, and another RB who is helping the cause by hurting the defense before he comes in. When two backs go over 1,000 yards, that's mainly due to A) the running concepts involved, Power, Power G, G, Toss, Iso, and Lead and B) the talent of the OL. It was good to let him go and plug and chug with Bradshaw and Ware.

tjsunstein
03-02-2009, 10:43 PM
3 million a year for a thousand yard running back (with 5.6 ypc) hasn't been overpay since Independence Day was in theaters.

Look beyond the stats and assess the situation he had in New York.

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 10:49 PM
I really wish him the best and think Tampa is a very good spot for him because they have a good young oline to run behind a big strong RB to wear defenses down for. He's a true jack of all trades, master of none and he helps you in a lot of different ways, but that doesn't make him worth much to a team who's got a great lead back ad behind him have a young explosive back who should be able to replace Ward as a receiving back with a good offseason and is already as productive of a runner, not even mentioning that he's far more explosive and tougher to bring down.

Crickett
03-02-2009, 10:57 PM
Look beyond the stats and assess the situation he had in New York.

If all people looked at was the stats, 4 million a year would seem like the bargain of the offseason.

Me Likey Rookies
03-02-2009, 11:04 PM
Great signing considering he came cheaper than Michael Clayton. With Caddy injured again and Clifton better off returning, we needed someone to split carries with Graham. With Ward, we can now use our 3rd and 4th rd picks on defense instead of looking at guys like James Davis and Andre Brown.

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 11:24 PM
If all people looked at was the stats, 4 million a year would seem like the bargain of the offseason.

That's why you look past the stats and realize it's just a good solid deal.

Crickett
03-02-2009, 11:36 PM
That's why you look past the stats and realize it's just a good solid deal.

Yes, but he offered the Giants, where its known he would have success a better deal and they turned it down.

I enjoyed watching E, W and F. :(

Mr. Hero
03-02-2009, 11:39 PM
Yes, but he offered the Giants, where its known he would have success a better deal and they turned it down.

I enjoyed watching E, W and F. :(

Because why spend that money on a guy who we think we can replace with more touches for Bradshaw and some Danny Ware. It's not like we let him go because we're cheap, we let him go because Reese thought that that money could be better spent elsewhere with minimal loss in production.

Crickett
03-02-2009, 11:42 PM
Because why spend that money on a guy who we think we can replace with more touches for Bradshaw and some Danny Ware. It's not like we let him go because we're cheap, we let him go because Reese thought that that money could be better spent elsewhere with minimal loss in production.



Because the Giants had the #1 run game in the NFL this past season and why rock the boat for only 3 million in cap savings?

hugegmenfan
03-02-2009, 11:52 PM
like i already said.

The Giants had 7 mil a year for Canty but not 4 for Ward. :(

good point. its sad. derrick ward was great for us and he will always be as highly regarded to giants fans as anyone right now...i hope he has great success in tampa he deserves it

Number 10
03-03-2009, 12:07 AM
Good to see him get the respect he deserved last offseason.

But one thing that is going against him. He doesn't have Madison Hedgecock and the Giants offensive line in front of him anymore. The Giants line, as a group, were the best run blockers in the NFL last year. After closely watching Tampa Bay 3-4 times last year, their big boys aren't close to halfway up the totem pole. We'll see what he's got.

Number 10
03-03-2009, 12:09 AM
Because the Giants had the #1 run game in the NFL this past season and why rock the boat for only 3 million in cap savings?

Bradshaw is better than Ward. Guaranteed you'll agree in 9 months.

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 12:41 AM
Bradshaw is better than Ward. Guaranteed you'll agree in 9 months.

I like him more but let's see him do it first. I'd say he's got as good of chance at being successful but saying he's already better when has yet to average even close to double digit touches per game is premature to say the least.

Caddy
03-03-2009, 12:57 AM
Good to see him get the respect he deserved last offseason.

But one thing that is going against him. He doesn't have Madison Hedgecock and the Giants offensive line in front of him anymore. The Giants line, as a group, were the best run blockers in the NFL last year. After closely watching Tampa Bay 3-4 times last year, their big boys aren't close to halfway up the totem pole. We'll see what he's got.

Aren't even half way? The Bucs O-Line is possibly the most promising part of the team. Particular the interior trio of Sears, Joseph and Faine.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2009, 02:13 AM
Maintaining the #1 run game in the NFL for 10 mil (apparently 9 as Ward wanted 3 a year from the Giants) a year is "beyond foolish"?

Football is not a game of maintenance; it's a game of replacement. The NFL is a young man's league.

Crickett
03-03-2009, 07:13 AM
Football is not a game of maintenance; it's a game of replacement. The NFL is a young man's league.


Ward is going to be 29 with 342 career carries (and 69 career receptions). Not exactly a lot of wear and tear there. And why wouldn't you want to maintain the number one run game in the NFL?

etk
03-03-2009, 07:34 AM
Great signing considering he came cheaper than Michael Clayton. With Caddy injured again and Clifton better off returning, we needed someone to split carries with Graham. With Ward, we can now use our 3rd and 4th rd picks on defense instead of looking at guys like James Davis and Andre Brown.

If James Davis or Andre Brown are available with our 3rd and 4th round picks, I'd take both. They're steals.

scottyboy
03-03-2009, 07:44 AM
Yes, but he offered the Giants, where its known he would have success a better deal and they turned it down.

I enjoyed watching E, W and F. :(

there still is E, W and F...

and yfs (as usual) is right. 29 for a RB is getting to that age where they start slowing down. Bradshaw has his chance to shine right now as our #2 back. I'm excited to see what he can do, but still want to sign another vet for the G-men.

I just really wanna see what Ward can do in Tampa and how they'll utilize him. very intrigued.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-03-2009, 08:24 AM
Bradshaw is better than Ward. Guaranteed you'll agree in 9 months.

I talked to Coach Garrett, Jason Garrett's father, and the knows everything about football, and he was more excited about Bradshaw than with Jacobs. He liked what Jacobs brought to the game, but he held Bradshaw in high regard over ALL our backs. Simply talked about the first 3 steps and how explosive he was. He also liked his vision as well which is deadly when you mix it with that explosive first 3 steps.

Kase1
03-03-2009, 08:32 AM
Great pickup by the Bucs, Ward is gonna be a nice back for them rushing and catching the ball outta the backfield....... Now TB just needs a WR, and QB then they have an offense, LOL

Kase1
03-03-2009, 08:33 AM
I talked to Coach Garrett, Jason Garrett's father, and the knows everything about football, and he was more excited about Bradshaw than with Jacobs. He liked what Jacobs brought to the game, but he held Bradshaw in high regard over ALL our backs. Simply talked about the first 3 steps and how explosive he was. He also liked his vision as well which is deadly when you mix it with that explosive first 3 steps.

Shockey+Manning=Shocking, good 2 see another fellow Giants.com MBer on these boards (theyre the only Giants posting I can do at work, LOL)

Kase1
03-03-2009, 08:36 AM
Because the Giants had the #1 run game in the NFL this past season and why rock the boat for only 3 million in cap savings?

Agreed, Id take Ward back over Bernard....Not sure about Canty yet, Im a sucker for NFLers from NYC. Too bad we wouldnt even give the guy 3mil after he was part of the 4th RB tandem in NFL HISTORY to rush for over 1K yds

NY+Giants=NYG
03-03-2009, 08:37 AM
Shockey+Manning=Shocking, good 2 see another fellow Giants.com MBer on these boards (theyre the only Giants posting I can do at work, LOL)

Yeah, I like this MB, good way to interact with other fan bases.

Number 10
03-03-2009, 08:40 AM
I talked to Coach Garrett, Jason Garrett's father, and the knows everything about football, and he was more excited about Bradshaw than with Jacobs. He liked what Jacobs brought to the game, but he held Bradshaw in high regard over ALL our backs. Simply talked about the first 3 steps and how explosive he was. He also liked his vision as well which is deadly when you mix it with that explosive first 3 steps.

Oh trust me I saw it in him in the preseason of 2007. If you have any tapes...watch him break tackles. Just unbelievable. With Ward out of the picture, I expect Bradshaw to absolutely burst on to the scene and tear it up.

rockio42
03-03-2009, 08:40 AM
If Caddy stays healthy then he could be part of another great 1-2-3 punch with him, Earnest, and Caddy...great signing...other than cutting Brooks I love what the Bucs are doing this year

hopefully them AND the Rams will be good this year

Kase1
03-03-2009, 08:40 AM
Yeah, I like this MB, good way to interact with other fan bases.

Word, thats what I'm lovin as well. Every FA pickup we get ive been going to their team boards here and checking the low down on the guys we get. I couldnt believe all the praise for Boley, its kinda like us Giants fans with Ward, just about nothing but good news. Now Im waiting to hear what the Texans fans gotta say about CC Brown the new Safety we just inked from Houston

...I enjoy these MBs as well, theyre the only football MBs I can access at work

NY+Giants=NYG
03-03-2009, 08:51 AM
Oh trust me I saw it in him in the preseason of 2007. If you have any tapes...watch him break tackles. Just unbelievable. With Ward out of the picture, I expect Bradshaw to absolutely burst on to the scene and tear it up.

Yup, going back to his Marshall days he showed the same burst and ability to break tackles. That's why more I see of Jacobs the more I miss the skill set Barber had for us.

Ward is a good player, and has a mix of physical element, ability to break tackles and can catch the ball, but I think we played it well. We didn't really need to sign him again, and I am glad the FO and staff realized this.

It's a good signing for the Bucs. Ward got his money and is a good success story, and hopefully the Bucs get what they paid for. Would I be surprised if he didn't do as well? No, because I think Ward had the benefit of our OL, FB, and running concepts, which I haven't seen used by other teams. But I wish him well, I liked him as a player, and story on how we got him.

bigbluedefense
03-03-2009, 11:41 AM
Ward and Graham make a solid RB duo.

Tampa is a QB away from being a SB contender. I compare them very favorably to Minny.

bigbluedefense
03-03-2009, 12:10 PM
Oh and to chime in on the Ward/Bradshaw debate...Bradshaw is better. Much better actually.

I see Bradshaw as having Brian Westbrook potential. I think that highly of him.

I think our team as a whole did not perform as well in the playoffs vs last year because we didn't use Bradshaw.

last year's playoffs when we won the SB, Bradshaw was the MVP of our run game.

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention. That's why I don't want to premature about crowning him better than ward, wardclearly wasn't the most physically talented RB, but he was a very steady and consistent contributer in a variety of ways and you didn't have to worry about him screwing up on or off the field. From all i've read ahmad's been a good soldier so far in his career but there's still the concern that he won't handle a heavier workload.

That said i'm very optimistic our running game will be significantly more explosive this season and should be just as consistent and productive with bradshaw stepping in as the number two and ware battling a rookie for the number three spot.

Crickett
03-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention.


I always thought Bradshaw's legal troubles were blown kind of out of proporiton. He stole a playstation. Big whoop.

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 03:43 PM
I always thought Bradshaw's legal troubles were blown kind of out of proporiton. He stole a playstation. Big whoop.

Theft in a young adult makes me really question a guy's mindset. Granted there are a lot of other morally reprehensible things I don't mind, but there's just something about a disrespect for property rights that really irks me.

BaLLiN
03-03-2009, 03:44 PM
Look Bradshaw has better ability and as giants fans we know this, but the question is with a bigger spotlight and the longer leash that comes with it will do something stupid to get himself in trouble again, as well as obvious questions about how he'll hold up getting more carries and more attention. That's why I don't want to premature about crowning him better than ward, wardclearly wasn't the most physically talented RB, but he was a very steady and consistent contributer in a variety of ways and you didn't have to worry about him screwing up on or off the field. From all i've read ahmad's been a good soldier so far in his career but there's still the concern that he won't handle a heavier workload.

That said i'm very optimistic our running game will be significantly more explosive this season and should be just as consistent and productive with bradshaw stepping in as the number two and ware battling a rookie for the number three spot.

Your wrong, up until these last two years ward didnt do much of anything, and the reason he was consistent was because his OL and BJ. He has good vision and pounds through the whole, but he's not special. He doesn't make more than one or two people miss, i dont think ive seen that ever.

He wouldve been off our team if it wasnt for a new GM. Bradshaw is not a troublemaker, he came into a slump, i suspect because he hadnt been given the confidence because he had still not been given a chance to shine. He proved himself and had to settle for the role he already had. Bradshaw is a prototypical RB, yes he's small, but hes fast, hes agile, hes quick, he has the best vision on the team, he can break a tackle and in the middle of that break another, just do ridiculous ****, but he doesnt have the confidence or the experience to hold onto the football

That my friend is why. Ward isnt special, hes just good. Now no more repetitiveness because im tired of 20 giants fans saying the same thing. its really annoying

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 03:51 PM
I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-03-2009, 04:08 PM
I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.

Bradshaw has proven he is special. The GM, Reese and the staff know this. Also any giants fan watching game in and game out knows that bradshaw has the skill set to do special things. Just watch the games since he has been drafted and watch his skill set. I was praying we wouldn't take back Ward because he would take more carries away from Bradshaw. Now with Ward gone, the BJ, Bradshaw, and Ware combo is something I know I will be looking forward to next season.

BaLLiN
03-03-2009, 04:14 PM
I don't think I disagree I'm just pointing that while Ward wasn't special, Bradshaw hasn't proven he's special either, at least not yet and while I'm optimistic he'll get there I'm not completely comfortable saying that he's already better than ward, because if that where the case wtf was coughlin doing not giving him double digit carries. I suspect the durability questions and fumbling questions are going to be the difference between bradshaw coming in and playing great and him losing carries to a gyu like ware who coughlin could trust more.

ask the patriots staff if he's special, they spent alot of their time preparing for him

Mr. Hero
03-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Bradshaw has proven he is special. The GM, Reese and the staff know this. Also any giants fan watching game in and game out knows that bradshaw has the skill set to do special things. Just watch the games since he has been drafted and watch his skill set. I was praying we wouldn't take back Ward because he would take more carries away from Bradshaw. Now with Ward gone, the BJ, Bradshaw, and Ware combo is something I know I will be looking forward to next season.

Again not arguing with his skillset at all, but the problem is we have yet to see him stay that dangerous with the bigger workload.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-03-2009, 08:53 PM
Again not arguing with his skillset at all, but the problem is we have yet to see him stay that dangerous with the bigger workload.

Yeah but if the Giants and Reese had any reservations they would have brought back Ward. And usually the argument is the other way around. When you show nothing in limited time, people can say how can this player do well with more playing time. I feel very comfortable that in his limited time he showed alot to the coaches and FO.

I see your point, but I think this upcoming year barring injury it will truly be a 1-2 with 2 being more of a homerun threat.

Me Likey Rookies
03-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Why wasnt Bradshaw used last year? Was it legal issues?

NY+Giants=NYG
03-04-2009, 09:41 AM
Why wasnt Bradshaw used last year? Was it legal issues?

This is why alot of our fan based soured on Gilbride. It had nothing to do with legal matters some reason we stuck Bradshaw last and then when BJ got hurt, we mostly played Ward instead of sticking with the rotation system of Ward, Bradshaw and Ware. It's the rotation system that makes us dangerous.

Mr. Hero
03-04-2009, 11:09 AM
Yeah but if the Giants and Reese had any reservations they would have brought back Ward. And usually the argument is the other way around. When you show nothing in limited time, people can say how can this player do well with more playing time. I feel very comfortable that in his limited time he showed alot to the coaches and FO.

I see your point, but I think this upcoming year barring injury it will truly be a 1-2 with 2 being more of a homerun threat.

Here's to hoping it works out well as I am excited, because you are right in that he's very explosive and incredibly tough to bring down as he has great balance to go along with a low center of gravity and strong legs that he never stops churning.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Here's to hoping it works out well as I am excited, because you are right in that he's very explosive and incredibly tough to bring down as he has great balance to go along with a low center of gravity and strong legs that he never stops churning.

And that's exactly what everyone likes about him. It's evident every time he touches the ball. He runs harder than Ward, much better vision than Ward, and his agility is much better than Wards. Ward is a RB that is the jack of all trades yet not a master of 1. So he goes everything well and has a skill set which is above avg in pass protection, pass catching, vision, agility and ability to break tackles. Stick him behind an elite OL and very good running concepts and it's not suprise he did well.

Let's not forget we evaluate backs very well. We had Tiki, BJ, Ward, Ryan Grant, Bradshaw, and Ware. Tiki retired, Grant got traded, and BJ, Ward, and Bradshaw were left. Now with Ward gone, the staff is very high on Bradshae and Ware.

d34ng3l021
03-04-2009, 12:50 PM
Ward and Graham make a solid RB duo.

Tampa is a QB away from being a SB contender. I compare them very favorably to Minny.

I disagree. Tampa still has ways to go before becoming playoff contenders, let alone SB contenders in my opinion. A good-franchise QB is an asset to every team and good QB play with solid play from the running game and defense can almost always lead to playoffs, but where are they going to get that QB? Also, Ward and Graham are an average, maybe slightly above average RB duo. When there are duos like Adrian Peterson + Chester Taylor, Michael Turner + Jerious Norwood, DeAngelo Williams + Jonathan Stewart, and Chris Johnson + Lendale White out there, Ward and Graham seem merely average. And that defense? The consistent players and personell (Brooks, Kiffin) are gone and who knows how the Bucs defense will handle that. Minny's defense and run game are far better than the Bucs.

I don't mean to hate on the Bucs or anything, but I think they are in rebuilding more right now. They have made some good moves in that process (Winslow, Ward), but still have some ways to go.

etk
03-04-2009, 06:42 PM
I disagree. Tampa still has ways to go before becoming playoff contenders, let alone SB contenders in my opinion. A good-franchise QB is an asset to every team and good QB play with solid play from the running game and defense can almost always lead to playoffs, but where are they going to get that QB? Also, Ward and Graham are an average, maybe slightly above average RB duo. When there are duos like Adrian Peterson + Chester Taylor, Michael Turner + Jerious Norwood, DeAngelo Williams + Jonathan Stewart, and Chris Johnson + Lendale White out there, Ward and Graham seem merely average. And that defense? The consistent players and personell (Brooks, Kiffin) are gone and who knows how the Bucs defense will handle that. Minny's defense and run game are far better than the Bucs.

I don't mean to hate on the Bucs or anything, but I think they are in rebuilding more right now. They have made some good moves in that process (Winslow, Ward), but still have some ways to go.

A ways to go from being playoff contenders? HAHAHA!

You do realize we were 9-3 at one point staring a 1st round bye right in the eyes. You don't just go from that to being a bottom-dweller overnight because you blew 4 games and cut some old, mediocre players.

Minny's defense is not better than ours. Not in personnel or scheme. New doesn't necessarily mean worse. Indianapolis loses "key players" on defense every year and have no problem. As long as our pass rush improves, which is a near-guarantee considering how bad it was last year, we will remain as one of the top defenses in the league.

The change in QB should not be the area of focus. The change in coaching staff should. Gruden's offense handcuffed us. We were always settling for FGs or punts. Our offense will become more dynamic with McCown at the helm, plus the addition of Winslow and likely a draft pick at WR. McCown doesn't have tons of experience, but he's proven himself when he gets opportunities.

The addition of Ward means that we have 3 backs who can play. It's not easy to establish a run game with 72 year old, 165 lb. Warrick Dunn taking the bulk of the carries. I'm not saying this means we're gonna be unstoppable, but for every negative change there's been a positive change.

I'm sorry but every team in our division has a shot at the playoffs. We're all about equal right now and the regular season will decide the rest. This is especially hilarious coming from a Falcons fan. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you guys supposed to be 5 years from making the playoffs? And the Saints were SB contenders right?

irishbucsfan
03-04-2009, 07:27 PM
^^^

I enjoy reading your posts more than I do any other Bucs fan etk, and that includes those on other boards too.

It seems impossible to find a Bucs fan nowadays that can successfully balance an intelligent critical eye and a healthy amount of optimism.

d34ng3l021
03-04-2009, 08:27 PM
A ways to go from being playoff contenders? HAHAHA!

You do realize we were 9-3 at one point staring a 1st round bye right in the eyes. You don't just go from that to being a bottom-dweller overnight because you blew 4 games and cut some old, mediocre players.

Usually I would think so too. But when you lose to Oakland and SD at home with playoffs on the line, I think the team has a lot more troubles to be worried about.

Minny's defense is not better than ours. Not in personnel or scheme. New doesn't necessarily mean worse. Indianapolis loses "key players" on defense every year and have no problem. As long as our pass rush improves, which is a near-guarantee considering how bad it was last year, we will remain as one of the top defenses in the league.

Well with all the players and personnel last year, Minnesota had Tampa beat in yardage defense (TB had a better scoring defense though). In terms of who has a better defense, it could go either way. I would rather have a defense with Jared Allen (who really picked it up in the 2nd half of the season), Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Chad Greenway (115 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 3 FFs), and Antoine Winfield than Gaines Adams, Barrett Ruud, Ronde Barber, and Tanard Jackson. I know I am just naming some players from the squads, but Minny's defense looks a lot better to me. And how will the Bucs defense handle the leaving of such a great DC, Monte Kiffin? Just the news of him leaving alone might have caused a breakdown for the Bucs defense. Now with a new DC, HC, and possibly a new scheme (? i dont know what the deal is for this one. i just saw someone post something about this), we will have to see how the TB defense handles the change. The talent and coaches can make a top 10 D with the Bucs, but I don't see it, not in the first year.

The change in QB should not be the area of focus. The change in coaching staff should. Gruden's offense handcuffed us. We were always settling for FGs or punts. Our offense will become more dynamic with McCown at the helm, plus the addition of Winslow and likely a draft pick at WR. McCown doesn't have tons of experience, but he's proven himself when he gets opportunities.

I agree that Gruden may have handicapped the Bucs offense, but to say that the Bucs offense is going to be more dynamic with Luke McCown at helm may be stretching it. McCown is a journeyman back up QB who has started 7 games in his 5 year career, and that has happened for a reason. His numbers did look good for a 4 game stretch at the end of 2007, but how is he going to handle a full season? No one knows, but adding Winslow was a great idea.

The addition of Ward means that we have 3 backs who can play. It's not easy to establish a run game with 72 year old, 165 lb. Warrick Dunn taking the bulk of the carries. I'm not saying this means we're gonna be unstoppable, but for every negative change there's been a positive change.

Derrick Ward is a great signing. I would say that he might have flourished in NY because of the great offensive line there and because he was going up against tired defenses, but Tampa Bay has a good run blocking offensive line and he should be a good addition. I don't expect 5.6 YPC again, but he will help the Bucs a lot. The trio of Derrick Ward, Earnest Graham, and Cadillac Williams (i am assuming you meant him?) is a good trio. Still nothing more than solid though.

I'm sorry but every team in our division has a shot at the playoffs. We're all about equal right now and the regular season will decide the rest. This is especially hilarious coming from a Falcons fan. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you guys supposed to be 5 years from making the playoffs? And the Saints were SB contenders right?

Equal right now? The Panthers are coming off of a 12-4 regular season and a #2 seed in the NFC. The Falcons are coming off of an 11-5 regular season with a 23 year old franchise QB, a 26 year old 1700 yard back. and a 27 year old 1400 yard receiver. The Bucs are coming off of a 4 game losing streak that includes SD and Oakland at home and a 9-7 season.

I know that the regular season is a toss up most of the time for the NFC South and no one knows which team(s) will emerge, but I would have to put the chances of success higher for the Panthers and Falcons than the Bucs. Whether or not that happens, I think a lot of people would have to agree with this sentiment.

And I would like to think that me being a Falcons fan has nothing to do with this. The Falcons success surprised me as much as it did the rest of the NFL. I guess you could hope for everything to fall in place quickly (which is easily can), but I doubt it. That is all I am saying.

etk
03-05-2009, 07:54 PM
Equal right now? The Panthers are coming off of a 12-4 regular season and a #2 seed in the NFC. The Falcons are coming off of an 11-5 regular season with a 23 year old franchise QB, a 26 year old 1700 yard back. and a 27 year old 1400 yard receiver. The Bucs are coming off of a 4 game losing streak that includes SD and Oakland at home and a 9-7 season.

I know that the regular season is a toss up most of the time for the NFC South and no one knows which team(s) will emerge, but I would have to put the chances of success higher for the Panthers and Falcons than the Bucs. Whether or not that happens, I think a lot of people would have to agree with this sentiment.

And I would like to think that me being a Falcons fan has nothing to do with this. The Falcons success surprised me as much as it did the rest of the NFL. I guess you could hope for everything to fall in place quickly (which is easily can), but I doubt it. That is all I am saying.

I'm going to focus on this part of the post, because the rest is a matter of opinion.

You're making the same mistakes every other NFL fan makes before the year. |All the teams that made the playoffs and didn't get noticeably worse should be back in the playoffs and contending for a SB". All the teams that struggled last year will continue to do so unless they make a bunch of big splash FA signings".

Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't work this way. A lot of things don't make sense in an NFL regular season. Go back a year: Falcons and Dolphins in the playoffs? Patriots and Cowboys out? lolwut? If someone predicted that at any point prior to the season, they would've been made into the next STARHEATHER.

Every year, lots of playoff teams from the previous year miss the playoffs and new teams replace them. It's a harsh reality. The Bucs made the playoffs 2 years ago and then started off 9-3 last year. They became another statistic in the end.

Every team has a good shot at the playoffs this year, except maybe 3-4. The NFC South has a high level of parity and turnover from year to year. The Panthers could easily crumble with poor QB play and a mediocre defense. The Falcons are most definitely improving on paper, and logic would tell you that they're division favorites. Matt Ryan could get bit by the sophomore jinx, sprinkle in a couple injuries and/or close losses and you got yourself an early vacation. The Saints were ravaged by injuries last year. Who knows how good they can be with momentum and a healthy season?

This Bucs team has fringe playoff contender written all over it. It's not a matter of hope, it's a trend. Surprises happen every year, but this year I refuse to be surprised. Anything can happen is my motto. I don't have any sort of expectation for the Bucs except to expect a surprise. You, on the other hand, are in a position for disappointment because you have high expectations. Just pray you don't step into the shoes of a Bucs fan.

jenningsfan85
03-06-2009, 02:50 AM
could not agree with the previous post any more! look at gb, perfect example... 2007 13-3 lost in ot of nfc champ. game 2008 6-10. 21 of 22 starters back, only favre left but rodgers put up 4000 yrds 32 total tds and 14 int so that wasnt it. so what was it? close games. in 07 pack were 5-0 in games decided by 3 points or less, 08? 0-7. it was brutal but thats how the **** crumbles in the nfl year to year... hears to the ball bouncing the packers way this year.

etk
03-06-2009, 03:37 PM
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Atlanta had quite a few close wins this past year. OT against us. That INSANE game against the Bears where Chicago tried that stupid pooch kick giving them several seconds to complete a pass and try a kick, which Elam made of course.

In Phil Steele's college football preview, one of his factors in predicting wins/losses is the team's close wins/losses from the past year. If you win a lot of close games, you typically have a worse record the next year, and it works the same with close losses. You can't get lucky all the time.

bigbluedefense
03-07-2009, 08:29 AM
The Bucs need to be aggressive in going after Mark Sanchez. And if they can't work out a deal to get him, they need to just grab the best available DE or WR, depending on who's on the board and who grades out higher.

I think Hakeem Nicks would be a boss in a WCO.

If Rak, Brown or English are on the board when theyre up at bat though, they should start looking into that as well.

If they do nab Sanchez though, I think its a must that he sits a year, regardless. He needs to be developed slowly.

D-Rod
03-07-2009, 08:45 AM
The reason that the Bucs are the least favoured team in the NFCS is simple: QB. That is where it starts and ends. McCown has proven nothing, and the Bucs won't go anywhere unless he outperforms previous indications.

Might happen, might not. They're not out of the running for the playoffs, but until McCown shows something, Ward and Graham will be seeing 8 in the box all day long.

bigbluedefense
03-07-2009, 08:46 AM
I wonder if the Bucs can work out a deal for Tyler Thigpen. Its worth a shot.

d34ng3l021
03-07-2009, 11:16 PM
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Atlanta had quite a few close wins this past year. OT against us. That INSANE game against the Bears where Chicago tried that stupid pooch kick giving them several seconds to complete a pass and try a kick, which Elam made of course.

In Phil Steele's college football preview, one of his factors in predicting wins/losses is the team's close wins/losses from the past year. If you win a lot of close games, you typically have a worse record the next year, and it works the same with close losses. You can't get lucky all the time.

The first Bucs game (first road game for rookie Matt Ryan): despite 2 first half interceptions and no success in the endzone, we were down by 1 possession in the middle of the 4th quarter until the big 68 yard run.

The game in Philly: we were down 7-20 and then after 1 interception and 4 punts, the falcons marched for an 84 yard TD drive and got the game within 6 at 14-20. they got the ball back after stopping the eagles offense with 2 minutes to go. then there was the wrong muffed punt call.

The game against Denver, Roddy White dropped a 48 yard TD pass at the end of the game that could have won it for us.

The 2nd game against the Saints, we lost by 5 points and it was a close game until the 4th (it was a great game).

We may have had close games going our way, but we were in all our games and were within 1 possession in the 4th quarter in each and every game.

etk
03-08-2009, 03:57 PM
The reason that the Bucs are the least favoured team in the NFCS is simple: QB. That is where it starts and ends. McCown has proven nothing, and the Bucs won't go anywhere unless he outperforms previous indications.

Might happen, might not. They're not out of the running for the playoffs, but until McCown shows something, Ward and Graham will be seeing 8 in the box all day long.

We've won games with worse. Do you really think Brad Johnson, Brian Griese and Jeff Garcia are that much better than McCown? QB has always been a weak spot for us but we still have moderate success.

Here's what I know:

-McCown has been fairly impressive in limited PT. He's been in the system for 3 years now I think. He should be hitting his prime now.

-He has all the physical tools to start. Good arm strength, very athletic, pretty accurate. Good in all areas, but only his athleticism is great.

-We have 3 coaches to help him succeed (position and scheme-wise): Jeff Jagodzinksi, Steve Logan, Greg Olson. All 3 are extremely experienced. Jags & Logan took Matt Ryan from an inconsistent Jr. coming off an injury to one of the top QBs in CF and a top-5 pick. Then the next year they had a 1st-year starter in Chris Crane who played solid prior to an injury late in the year.

-We have a solid young OL, 3 good backs, great TEs, and 1 great WR (ATM). We also have a Pro Bowl KR/PR and a defense that's consistently among the league's best.

McCown has every reason to succeed IMO. I'm not saying he's a top-10 QB candidate, but he should have similar success and numbers to those that came before him, only he's younger and has more potential.