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View Full Version : Why are people saying Jenkins had a bad Combine?


T.Smith
03-02-2009, 09:27 PM
He had the fastest 3-Cone Drill time out of anyone one there, the most important drill to run for a CB. The only time 40 speed comes into play for a CB is when he is completely beat or chasing a tackler from behind. CB is about reaction, agility, and explosion. D.Hall for example gets beat deep all day by slower WR all the time, and that has nothing to do with his speed.
I guess im just confused as to how his 40 time changes anybody's perceptive whatso ever(like those saying that he now HAS to be a Safety.)

etk
03-02-2009, 09:40 PM
Times aren't everything. He was also mediocre in the positional drills, which are the most telling and important IMO. He wasn't very fluid in his movements and his hips are not as loose as you'd like.

He pretty much proved he's gonna struggle with double moves and is a risk to get beat deep (which happened at OSU). He needs safety help, or he needs to play safety.

The guy was never a top-10 talent and it was only a matter of time before he was exposed. Luckily for Jenkins, no one else really emerged at the combine. I guess Alphonso Smith was the most impressive but ZOMGZ he's short.

twista6002
03-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Basically scouts and "experts" put a lot of stock in the 40. I don't think he had a bad combine but not a great one. He's at about the same spot as I had him previously.

Brent
03-02-2009, 10:21 PM
How did he do in the interviews? I know a lot of team put stock in that.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-03-2009, 12:18 PM
As others mentioned its more about how he looked in CB drills than 40 times. For example Jimmy Williams ran like a 4.45 I believe but in drills scouts saw completely stiff hips and bad change of direction skills which made them believe he couldn't play corner in the league. I don't think the same is true with Malcolm Jenkins but he definitely isn't top 5 for CB's in this draft in terms of pure coverage skills. Love Alphonso Smith and intrigued by the potential of Vontae Davis and Sean Smith, but to me Darius Butler is starting to get consideration as who I think will end up the best corner in this draft. Don't sleep on Kevin Barnes though. I still think Jenkins will be a top 15 pick probably higher, and I still liken the comparison of him to Shawn Springs as I have said many times.

Crickett
03-03-2009, 12:21 PM
Times aren't everything. He was also mediocre in the positional drills, which are the most telling and important IMO. He wasn't very fluid in his movements and his hips are not as loose as you'd like.

He pretty much proved he's gonna struggle with double moves and is a risk to get beat deep (which happened at OSU). He needs safety help, or he needs to play safety.

The guy was never a top-10 talent and it was only a matter of time before he was exposed. Luckily for Jenkins, no one else really emerged at the combine. I guess Alphonso Smith was the most impressive but ZOMGZ he's short.


Alphonso Smith: 4.52 40.
Malcolm Jenkins: 4.55 40.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-03-2009, 12:24 PM
All 40 times means for corners are some have an easier time of running down someone after they get beat, you can still run a 4.6 and it wouldn't matter if you can stay on your man and don't get beat, but Jenkins isn't exactly a stalwart in coverage.

Don Vito
03-03-2009, 12:27 PM
As others mentioned its more about how he looked in CB drills than 40 times. For example Jimmy Williams ran like a 4.45 I believe but in drills scouts saw completely stiff hips and bad change of direction skills which made them believe he couldn't play corner in the league. I don't think the same is true with Malcolm Jenkins but he definitely isn't top 5 for CB's in this draft in terms of pure coverage skills. Love Alphonso Smith and intrigued by the potential of Vontae Davis and Sean Smith, but to me Darius Butler is starting to get consideration as who I think will end up the best corner in this draft. Don't sleep on Kevin Barnes though. I still think Jenkins will be a top 15 pick probably higher, and I still liken the comparison of him to Shawn Springs as I have said many times.

I am really high on Darius Butler. He looks very smooth and has super ball skills, he definitely could be the best corner out of this class. Butler and Alphonso Smith are my two favorites in this class, I would love for the Pats to grab one of them.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-03-2009, 12:32 PM
Love Butler he actually has pretty good height and an unreal vertical leap which takes care of the slight height problem although he's average height for an NFL corner. Also he brings a lot of versatility as a returner, many forget how dangerous he was when he doubled as a receiver as well.

roscoesdad27
03-03-2009, 12:37 PM
Jenkins 40 time moved him down a bit on my overall board but he is clearly the best c.b. in this draft. He had the fastest cone of any player in the entire draft and it was also faster than any of last years tremendous c.b. class!!!!! He's as physical as it gets, has tremendous instincts, has tremendous ballskills/hands and is a natural leader. Can move back into my top 5 with a 4.4 40 at his pro day.

Can be a true lock down corner at best or a multi pro bowl free safety at worst. Will drop no further than the 14 to the saints and could go as high as 5, with a good pro day, to the browns. Ihave him at 8 to jax in my current mock.

CLEARLY THE BEST CORNER IN THIS DRAFT, OR FREE SAFETY FOR THAT MATTER!

ThePudge
03-03-2009, 12:55 PM
Times aren't everything. He was also mediocre in the positional drills, which are the most telling and important IMO. He wasn't very fluid in his movements and his hips are not as loose as you'd like.

I'm sorry but that couldn't be less accurate. Malcolm Jenkins stood out in the positional drills, not the timed portions. It is true that he ran the fastest 3-Cone drill at the Combine, showing the ability to drop his hips and turn with both quickness and efficiency. At times in the positional drills he looked like he was on a completely different level than the rest in his group (which included notably Darius Butler and Vontae Davis.) He was a bit high in a couple of the drills, but his hips looked very fluid and his transitions were much better than I had expected. His backpedal is quick and his transitions in that particular drill were extremely smooth. He really separated himself in the last drill that required him to stop on a dime and make plays on poorly thrown balls. In that particular drill he was lined up next to Vontae Davis and easily out-shined him.

He is experienced, he may not be a 4.4 guy but he is fluid athletically, he is well-schooled and well-practiced in his transitions which have improved greatly and look very natural, he displays very good quickness in short-area. His hips, though he played a bit high, were actually excellent and he's a guy that can really turn and run without losing much speed.

In college Macolm Jenkins had an excellent year and a fantastic career. He made an impact from his Freshman Year and it all culminated with well-deserved First Team All-American honors in 2008 and the Thorpe Award. Not his first good year either as he was three times First-Team All-Big Ten, and a Second-Team All-American in 2007. Now, while, his awards don't make him a great prospect, nor does his school's background for producing NFL DB's (Springs, Winfield, Clements, Gamble, Whitner, etc.), his game on the field certainly does. He is a complete CB prospect, with athleticism (yes, you can be an athletic CB even if you don't run a 4.4), great cover skills, has fluid hips (see positional drills/college career), tremendous character and leadership qualities, he is a good tackler, willing against the run, can run and get up with anyone, has far above-average instincts in coverage and run support, and is technically sound. What I personally love about Jenkins is the fact that he will give you all of that for four quarters, sixteen games a year. The problem with Jenkins is he has average timed speed, though he did win the NJ State 400 yard dash as a junior in HS, and is at this point a tweener between CB and FS.

Due to the uncertainty on whether he will play Cornerback or Free Safety at the next level, there is a chance he falls out of the Top 10, past teams like Jacksonville and Green Bay. Since his stock was so high to begin with, and the 4.53-4.55 didn't help him, of course his stock is on a very slight decline. Still, I can't see him getting past New Orleans at 14, even if they do think he is a Free Safety.

A source reporting similar to what I posted above (draftheadquarters)
--"Malcolm Jenkins - Dont believe everything that you read in the media. Jenkins had a good workout yesterday. I expected him to run in the 4.5s and according to my stopwatch, he was at a 4.53. He did well in the positional drills and even did better than Vontae Davis when they were head to head in the final drill of their workout. Obviously youd like to see him run faster, but hes not a burner at corner and never has been. He was a great college cornerback; you cant just change into being a mediocre one in an offseason because half of the media reporting on it have no idea what theyre talking about. What bugs me is when football websites who have no history of scouting football players begin suggesting that he must move to safety. Hell remain my top cornerback entering the draft. Even if he does move to safety, you think hes not better than Louis Delmas or Rashad Johnson? Come on."

ThePudge
03-03-2009, 01:15 PM
How did he do in the interviews? I know a lot of team put stock in that.

I would assume very well. He's well-coached and a very cerebral player on the field. He has been a real leader on the defense since his Sophomore year and especially his Senior season. He's humble off the field, intense on it. If they had him draw up diagrams I would imagine he excelled as he is, as I mentioned, very smart and has a great feel for the game. I'm not biased toward Ohio State prospects, in fact he and Marcus Freeman are the only ones this year I really am higher than most on (lower than most on Laurinaitis/Washington/Hartline), but Jenkins is a football player. He has football smarts and an engaging, but very focused, personality.

So, in conclusion, I am not positive because that's tough information to obtain, but I am very inclined to say that was one of Malcolm's strongest points at the Combine.

umphrey
03-03-2009, 01:19 PM
He was regarded as a top 10 corner. Top 10 corners almost always run in the 4.4s or below. He looks like more of a mid-late 1st rounder now (which I always thought he was). I think he was just overrated pre combine and now people are adjusting to what was inevitably going to happen.

bored of education
03-03-2009, 01:25 PM
I still have him as a top 10 talent and EASILY the best CB in the draft.

ThePudge
03-03-2009, 01:28 PM
He was regarded as a top 10 corner. Top 10 corners almost always run in the 4.4s or below. He looks like more of a mid-late 1st rounder now (which I always thought he was). I think he was just overrated pre combine and now people are adjusting to what was inevitably going to happen.

Except for the fact that he, barring injury, won't fall out of the Top 15 because notably Jacksonville (8), Green Bay (9), Denver (12), New Orleans (14), and Houston (15) all have a need for a corner.

The guy was an elite player in college, has great size for the position, had a good Combine (positional drills were excellent, 3-Cone was outstanding, 40 was average), and remains a complete player on the field. He is the best Cornerback or Free Safety prospect. He ran the time many/most expected him to run, so how it dramatically drops his stock is beyond me.

A Perfect Score
03-03-2009, 01:55 PM
I just cant see him falling out of the top 10. There is a premium put on guys who can cover, and say what you want about how he will do, but the perception right now is that Malcolm Jenkins can cover. Hes big, experienced, and not afraid to come up in run support. I like him better as a CB then I do as a FS. Even with the 4.5 at the combine, I fully expect him to run under that at his pro-day, and even though Ohio State has a fast track, that will help him in the long run. The guy is a straight up football player, and while I dont like the Shawn Springs comparison (Springs had alot more pure speed IMO), he does remind me of Nate Clements alot, who lets not forget just got an 80 million dollar contract. If Jenkins does for some reason fall out of the top 10, he wont get past Houston at 15. They have a need at CB and FS.

keylime_5
03-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Jenkins is a playmaker in the secondary, he can play corner, he might have more upside at safety, he will be a pro bowler.

the decider13
03-03-2009, 02:09 PM
I would be pretty happy to see jenkins in a broncos jersey. Say what you want, but I think this dude is gonna be the real deal.

BaLLiN
03-03-2009, 02:59 PM
I am really high on Darius Butler. He looks very smooth and has super ball skills, he definitely could be the best corner out of this class. Butler and Alphonso Smith are my two favorites in this class, I would love for the Pats to grab one of them.

agree completely, only problem i have is how Butler got whooped bigtime against kenny britt, alot of the time he gave up too much cushion.

Oh and to the guy who started this thread, Dhall gets beat by any reciever because hes a dumbass, theres no other way to explain it, he should be amazing, but he is really really stupid

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 03:28 PM
Jenkins looks like the second coming of Brandon Flowers to me. Flowers was the top rated CB going into the combine last year when he ran a poor 40. It dropped him to #35 as it indicated he would probably only suit a Cover 2 team which indeed did draft him.
Now I believe this draft is far weaker than last year's so I don't expect a tremendous fall for Jenkins but I seriously doubt he goes top 10 after his slow 40 and I suspect Vontae Davis leapfrogs him as the #1 CB in the draft. It's not that Vontae is the finished product that Jenkins is but his ceiling is much higher and he can play in any defense.

BigBanger
03-03-2009, 03:53 PM
His drills are what hurt his stock just as much as his 40 time. Mayock seemed convinced he was a safety the second his unofficial 40 time came in. Later he even said, "The damage has been done." when referring to his 40 time. He probably wont go in the top 10 of the draft anymore (still possible), and he now has a much higher chance of getting drafted by a team that puts him at Safety.

He did not show the quickest feet and he started pressing after screwing up on a couple drills. His technique started getting sloppy and he was trying to go too fast (faster than his feet allowed him to).

Darius Butler was the smoothest guy in coverage. He showed the quickest feet and had, by far, the best technique of any DB in the draft at the Combine. He showed teams everything you want in an elite CB. If he's not better than Jenkins, he's certainly not far behind. Depending on the scheme a team is running, Butler could be a better prospect than any CB in this draft.

Jenkins is a great player. He isn't a great athlete, but he's a great football player that has a very high football IQ, plays with very good instincts, is one of the best DBs in run support, good size and a good frame, a real leader of a defense, has very good ball skills and playmaking ability. He's pretty much as good as a corner gets. He lacks recovery speed and elite foot speed, which will make him more of a zone defender than a man-to-man defender. He's been slotted to go to the Packers in a lot of Mock drafts. The Packers run a ton of man coverage, and that is not the best fit for Jenkins. Darius Butler would be a better option at CB in that scheme. Jenkins needs to go to a defense where he's asked to do a lot of different things to get the best out of him. He can't be put on island all day long or he'll look like DeAngelo Hall when he was with the Raiders. His speed is a concern, which means giving up the big play is a concern, which means he'll need some help over-the-top, which lessens his value and kinda removes that 'shutdown' CB tag which is reserved for top 10 guys.

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 04:05 PM
His drills are what hurt his stock just as much as his 40 time. Mayock seemed convinced he was a safety the second his unofficial 40 time came in. Later he even said, "The damage has been done." when referring to his 40 time. He probably wont go in the top 10 of the draft anymore (still possible), and he now has a much higher chance of getting drafted by a team that puts him at Safety.

He did not show the quickest feet and he started pressing after screwing up on a couple drills. His technique started getting sloppy and he was trying to go too fast (faster than his feet allowed him to).

Darius Butler was the smoothest guy in coverage. He showed the quickest feet and had, by far, the best technique of any DB in the draft at the Combine. He showed teams everything you want in an elite CB. If he's not better than Jenkins, he's certainly not far behind. Depending on the scheme a team is running, Butler could be a better prospect than any CB in this draft.

Jenkins is a great player. He isn't a great athlete, but he's a great football player that has a very high football IQ, plays with very good instincts, is one of the best DBs in run support, good size and a good frame, a real leader of a defense, has very good ball skills and playmaking ability. He's pretty much as good as a corner gets. He lacks recovery speed and elite foot speed, which will make him more of a zone defender than a man-to-man defender. He's been slotted to go to the Packers in a lot of Mock drafts. The Packers run a ton of man coverage, and that is not the best fit for Jenkins. Darius Butler would be a better option at CB in that scheme. Jenkins needs to go to a defense where he's asked to do a lot of different things to get the best out of him. He can't be put on island all day long or he'll look like DeAngelo Hall when he was with the Raiders. His speed is a concern, which means giving up the big play is a concern, which means he'll need some help over-the-top, which lessens his value and kinda removes that 'shutdown' CB tag which is reserved for top 10 guys.

I agree with everything you said although I think Vontae Davis has a much higher ceiling than Butler and will get drafted before both of them. Jenkins likely gets drafted by a Cover 2 team or is switched to Safety.
As for Green Bay, they are switching to a 3-4 so their requirements for each position will be changing.

Babylon
03-03-2009, 04:13 PM
I've pretty much discounted players' 40 times down about .50 so your looking at a 4.5 guy with Jenkins. If you like him he didnt do anything to change that opinion.

bored of education
03-03-2009, 04:45 PM
I've pretty much discounted players' 40 times down about .50 so your looking at a 4.5 guy with Jenkins. If you like him he didnt do anything to change that opinion.

I feel he didnt hurt his status at all with one bad day at the combine. 4 years of film make up for that.

ThePudge
03-03-2009, 04:54 PM
I feel he didnt hurt his status at all with one bad day at the combine. 4 years of film make up for that.

I'm not sold on the people that say he had a bad Combine. He only ran an average 40. He looked outstanding in positional drills and often times looked like he was clearly on another level. Todd McShay tells us his stock is down, but I think the scouts pretty much saw what they expected out of Jenkins in Indianapolis. He's still a Top 15 value and likely Top 15 pick. Maybe he's not the Top 5-7 guy many thought he was, but I'm not buying his stock on the decline really. Vontae Davis was, at no point in time, a better cornerback than Malcolm Jenkins. It's not like Jenkins turned out 5'10 190 with a 4.6 40-Yard dash, he's 6'0 204 with a 4.53 40. Great size, average speed, tremendous on film and had a great showing in positional drills at the Combine.

BigBanger
03-03-2009, 05:57 PM
I agree with everything you said although I think Vontae Davis has a much higher ceiling than Butler and will get drafted before both of them. Jenkins likely gets drafted by a Cover 2 team or is switched to Safety.
As for Green Bay, they are switching to a 3-4 so their requirements for each position will be changing.
I see Davis as a Marcus McCauley type prospect. Rated highly purely on his athleticism, size and speed but gets beat far too much and just doesn't seem to have his head in the game. I think Davis gives you a great amount of potential, but also a great amount of blown assignments and lackadaisical effort from time to time.

I'll take a lot of corners over Davis. I have the same feelings about Davis as I did with Pacman Jones. Great talent, but something tells me, "Buyer beware."

Iamcanadian
03-03-2009, 11:54 PM
I see Davis as a Marcus McCauley type prospect. Rated highly purely on his athleticism, size and speed but gets beat far too much and just doesn't seem to have his head in the game. I think Davis gives you a great amount of potential, but also a great amount of blown assignments and lackadaisical effort from time to time.

I'll take a lot of corners over Davis. I have the same feelings about Davis as I did with Pacman Jones. Great talent, but something tells me, "Buyer beware."

You have to remember that Davis is a junior so you would expect some more immaturity. Look at Andre Smith, also a junior who wasn't too bright at the combine. Scouts and GM's will look past these junior immaturities if a prospect has a high talent level and both these guys look to have a ceiling way above the guys being talked about as being rated higher.
Pacman Jones had serious questions about his immaturity far above anything either Vontae or Smith have shown and he still went top 10 in the draft.
I really don't think scouts and GM's give too much weight to an 18 or 19 year old being immature as long as it isn't criminal activities, if they have significant talent. I think Vontae and Smith fall into this range.

PossibleCabbage
03-04-2009, 04:39 PM
The problem with saying "Player x won't go in the top 10 anymore" is you can basically say that about enough guys who are moderately disappointing that there's no longer 10 guys who will be going in the top 10.

Jenkins looked bad in the position drills, he's no longer a top 10 pick.
Wells ran pretty slow, he's no longer a top 10 pick.
Andre Smith is a head case, he's no longer a top 10 pick.
Crabtree's hurt, and has a concern about his speed, he's no longer a top 10 pick.
Brown really stunk up the joint in his jumping drills, he's no longer a top 10 pick.
Oher's terrible inconsistent, he's not a top 10 pick.
Orakpo's frame is maxed out, and he doesn't have fluid enough hips to play OLB, he's not a top 10 pick.
Maybin is raw and tiny, he's not a top 10 pick.

and on and on and on...

Everybody picking in the top 10 is going to pick someone. The only question about Jenkins going in the top 10 should really be along the lines of "Are there 10 guys who are better than him?"