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RWills
03-03-2009, 03:02 PM
picked this up from rotoworld

The Steelers believe that West Virginia QB Pat White "should" go in the first round of the draft, according to beat writer Ed Bouchette.

Bouchette says the club foresees White ultimately going in round two, but this shows that White's stock has improved tremendously this offseason. He was MVP of the Senior Bowl and blew everyone away at February's Combine.

CashmoneyDrew
03-03-2009, 03:06 PM
I can see him going late 2nd round fa sho.

BeerBaron
03-03-2009, 03:07 PM
The Steelers have always been a team that values those tweener hybrid college QBs.

Kordell Stewart, Hines Ward (played just about everything in college,) Randel El, Omar Jacobs a few years back and taking Dennis Dixon last year....so it doesn't surprise me to hear this from them. They always place value on those types.

I personally wouldn't take him earlier than the third. Will he go sooner than that? Possibly....but i think the team taking him will get a good player but possibly not a great player that a late first or 2nd round pick should still net you.

phlysac
03-03-2009, 03:18 PM
They also gave former West Virginia QB/WR Rasheed Marshall a shot after he was cut by the San Francisco 49ers.

BeerBaron
03-03-2009, 03:22 PM
They also gave former West Virginia QB/WR Rasheed Marshall a shot after he was cut by the San Francisco 49ers.

I remember that now....so yeah, theres another one.

If only they'd wind up with Brad Smith and Matt Jones they'd have a little monopoly going, lol.

Race for the Heisman
03-03-2009, 05:33 PM
I almost agree. Him and Slaton were supposed to be very similar in terms of speed and I think Slaton ran a mid 4.4, so I'd put White at a bit faster than his time at the combine, but I still don't know what his hands are like. If a team works him out and says he's early round two, it wouldn't surprise me, but I'm sticking to mid-to-late round two.

On a side note, teams don't flip their defense for a left-handed quarterback, do they? I mean, Dwight Freeney would still play RDE if the Colts played Matt Leinart, right? It almost makes me wonder if being a left handed quarterback is a bit of a down-played advantage, like a left-handed pitcher in baseball.

kwilk103
03-03-2009, 05:44 PM
heres the link; it was from a chat

Doc_Holliday: Any player jump out at you at the NFL combine? How far up or down do you think Pat White will move REALLY? Something makes me think he will end up being a steal for some team in the 2nd round.

Ed Bouchette: I did not attend the combine, thank goodness. It's the most overrated sports event in history. It's also the only sports event that newspapers, TV and radio keep covering without being allowed to watch. It's ridiculous. Pat White, I was told, had a tremendous combine. The STeelers believe he'll go in the second round but should go in the first.

http://post-gazette.com/pg/09062/952867-66.stm

DJC
03-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Big Ben was recruited by some teams as a WR coming out of high school too.

I think White can make it at QB. I'd give him a shot. I'd take him over most of the other senior QBs.

Race for the Heisman
03-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Big Ben was recruited by some teams as a WR coming out of high school too.

I think White can make it at QB. I'd give him a shot. I'd take him over most of the other senior QBs.

That's because he played wide receiver up until his senior year, at which point he switched roles with the player who had been quarterback.

GET LOOSE
03-03-2009, 05:59 PM
Pat White is the man. I expect him to become a starting QB sometime in his career and do pretty well. He probably goes late 2nd early 3rd.

BuddyCHRIST
03-03-2009, 07:00 PM
That's because he played wide receiver up until his senior year, at which point he switched roles with the player who had been quarterback.

The previous QB actually graduated and went on to play WR at a D2 college.

Jakey
03-03-2009, 07:23 PM
Pat White can play anywhere, the man is beast. I say he goes mid to late 2nd...but i wouldnt be suprised to see him go earlier if a team falls in love with him.

I actually like him at QB, what do you peeps think?

psulion21
03-03-2009, 08:43 PM
Theres no legit reason not to work him out at quarterback he is proving he has some of the tools but it all depends on who decides to take him and the opportunities that he will be presented with and how the coaching staff is able to move him along but with the potential he should be a 2nd round pick

Shane P. Hallam
03-03-2009, 08:45 PM
What teams would actually take a chance on him? I don't think Miami can or will. I'm having trouble thinking of who really would take a chance on him. Maybe Carolina with their second since no other QB is jumping out here?

Young Nasty Man
03-03-2009, 09:01 PM
I truly cannot see any value of him at all whatsoever. He can move out of the pocket and has above average arm but he is not fit for the pros. I cant see any team taking a chance on him and I really dont see why he would move to receiver especially with lack of height and no true experience at all at receiver. I just dont see specifically why any team would take a chance.

Halsey
03-03-2009, 09:18 PM
White may have a role in the NFL, but I have a real hard time believing he will be a starting QB. A lot of people love him because he's a QB who is also a threat to run. The problem is he's not up to NFL standards at a QB's most important job: passing. NFL teams have RB's to run the ball. The QB needs to be able to spread the ball in the passing game first and foremost.

CC.SD
03-03-2009, 09:22 PM
Dolphins should nab him in the 2nd. They can use him in the Wildcat always, and as a 3rd wideout, and train him up to be the #2 QB after Henne when Chad moves on. He should also hold on punts and kicks so they slip in some sneakiness.

Xonraider
03-03-2009, 10:59 PM
I know it probably doesn't have much to do, but he looked pretty shy in NFLN..lol

Staubach12
03-03-2009, 11:07 PM
The Steelers have always been a team that values those tweener hybrid college QBs.

Kordell Stewart, Hines Ward (played just about everything in college,) Randel El, Omar Jacobs a few years back and taking Dennis Dixon last year....so it doesn't surprise me to hear this from them. They always place value on those types.

I personally wouldn't take him earlier than the third. Will he go sooner than that? Possibly....but i think the team taking him will get a good player but possibly not a great player that a late first or 2nd round pick should still net you.

Omar Jacobs? Tweener? He could move a little, but he was by no means a tweener.

LonghornsLegend
03-03-2009, 11:26 PM
I just don't see White as a starting QB either, he could come in right now and do so many other things to help a team out, definately play some QB, but as far as starting? I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm not going to get as excited as everyone else is so far.


Let's see him take some snaps under center and go through some NFL reads in a pre-season game at least, see how often he makes the right reads or gets balls batted down, the questions I had about him weren't going to be answered by throwing the ball well at the Combine.

steelcrew43
03-03-2009, 11:29 PM
omar was far from a tweener.. i think he said that just because he is black

jsagan77
03-04-2009, 07:32 AM
If DJ freaking Shockley can keep his QB status then why on earth can't Pat White. White is 100x better than Shockley and hasn't stepped on an NFL field yet. He reminds me of a more accurate, slightly less athletic Mike Vick. You guys act like there is a cookie cutter image for QB's and that just isn't the case... I fully expect Pat White to be the best QB in this draft so hopefully he gets a shot at the next level...

no love
03-04-2009, 08:13 AM
I think Pat White could very well develop into a more athletic Jeff Garcia. Garcia wins with accuracy, timing, mobility and moxy. White is better than most "running qb's" in that he is accurate and throws a very catchable ball.

Ofcourse, white would need Garcia's determination in the weight room and in the film room.

ElectricEye
03-04-2009, 11:08 AM
If DJ freaking Shockley can keep his QB status then why on earth can't Pat White. White is 100x better than Shockley and hasn't stepped on an NFL field yet. He reminds me of a more accurate, slightly less athletic Mike Vick. You guys act like there is a cookie cutter image for QB's and that just isn't the case... I fully expect Pat White to be the best QB in this draft so hopefully he gets a shot at the next level...

White's a better athlete than Shockley, that's the only reason why. People see his athleticism and speed and instantly want to say he would be much better served moving to wide receiver. That may be true to a certain extent, but White has put the work in to be a better quarterback throughout the post season process and the results have been nothing but good. He's not afraid to say he wants to play quarterback and work for that status. I kinda like that about him. As to if he sticks or not, it's hard to say...but he deserves a shot and then some.

tylerb929
03-04-2009, 11:29 AM
On a side note, teams don't flip their defense for a left-handed quarterback, do they? I mean, Dwight Freeney would still play RDE if the Colts played Matt Leinart, right? It almost makes me wonder if being a left handed quarterback is a bit of a down-played advantage, like a left-handed pitcher in baseball.

To make that an advantage, wouldn't you have to switch your offense aswell (have a better right tackle like having a better left tackle with a righty QB).

If DJ freaking Shockley can keep his QB status then why on earth can't Pat White.

Wouldn't a better comparison be Troy Smith, everyone wanted him to change too, but he hasn't looked bad from what I've seen in Baltimore.

Halsey
03-04-2009, 12:19 PM
If DJ freaking Shockley can keep his QB status then why on earth can't Pat White. White is 100x better than Shockley and hasn't stepped on an NFL field yet. He reminds me of a more accurate, slightly less athletic Mike Vick. You guys act like there is a cookie cutter image for QB's and that just isn't the case... I fully expect Pat White to be the best QB in this draft so hopefully he gets a shot at the next level...

It's not that there is a cookie cutter image, it's just that White isn't an NFL level passer. White's athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL like it did in college and his passing will just not cut it. NFL defenses will stack the box, force him to beat them with his arm and obliterate his thin body when he tries to make plays with his feet. He's a very poor mans Vick: slower, less elusive, smaller and weaker armed. It's not that the NFL hates mobile QB's. It's that they don't like QB's who can't pass at an NFL level, can't outrun NFL defenders and will get broken in half the first time an NFL DE nails them from the blind side.

Cicero
03-04-2009, 02:04 PM
It's not that there is a cookie cutter image, it's just that White isn't an NFL level passer. White's athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL like it did in college and his passing will just not cut it. NFL defenses will stack the box, force him to beat them with his arm and obliterate his thin body when he tries to make plays with his feet. He's a very poor mans Vick: slower, less elusive, smaller and weaker armed. It's not that the NFL hates mobile QB's. It's that they don't like QB's who can't pass at an NFL level, can't outrun NFL defenders and will get broken in half the first time an NFL DE nails them from the blind side.

Ya, the NFL has no problem with mobile QB's, it's just that high school and college coaches ruin almost all of them.

phlysac
03-04-2009, 02:09 PM
I like alot of what I've seen from Pat White and his ability as a QB. What I don't understand is why his stock is soaring while Nate Davis' is dropping.

jnew76
03-04-2009, 09:01 PM
I think the Seneca Wallace scenario is the best that PW can hope for as a QB. I think he made a bad decision not to workout as a receiver at the combine.

The Ghostwriter
03-04-2009, 11:21 PM
It's not that there is a cookie cutter image, it's just that White isn't an NFL level passer. White's athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL like it did in college and his passing will just not cut it. NFL defenses will stack the box, force him to beat them with his arm and obliterate his thin body when he tries to make plays with his feet. He's a very poor mans Vick: slower, less elusive, smaller and weaker armed. It's not that the NFL hates mobile QB's. It's that they don't like QB's who can't pass at an NFL level, can't outrun NFL defenders and will get broken in half the first time an NFL DE nails them from the blind side.

From what I've heard, it's been Pat White's passing ability that has him rising up draft boards. He lit up the Combine to the point where even his critics had to admit that he threw the best of anyone there (and that includes Sanchez).

The Ghostwriter
03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
I actually wrote an article earlier this week addressing this very issue. For those interested:

http://theghostwriter.today.com/2009/02/24/standing-pat-the-case-for-mountaineer-5/

superman
03-04-2009, 11:26 PM
It's not that there is a cookie cutter image, it's just that White isn't an NFL level passer. White's athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL like it did in college and his passing will just not cut it. NFL defenses will stack the box, force him to beat them with his arm and obliterate his thin body when he tries to make plays with his feet. He's a very poor mans Vick: slower, less elusive, smaller and weaker armed. It's not that the NFL hates mobile QB's. It's that they don't like QB's who can't pass at an NFL level, can't outrun NFL defenders and will get broken in half the first time an NFL DE nails them from the blind side.

hmmm, so you're not a fan?

lordquas
03-05-2009, 12:37 AM
Pat Whites one of my favorite prospects. Can definitely play QB and even receiver. Like Kordell Stewart back in the day, only better. I think whichever team gets him will go crazy with trick plays and all that wildcat ****.

Haters will say his speed won't translate. Just watch the guy run. he flys.
He can outrun anyone when he gets going and I dont know if you noticed..
the guy doesn't get tired.
He'll bust a 50 yard run in the 4th while your defense is catching their breath.

The only way we'll know is when he runs routes and shows that he can catch at his pro day. But he certainly has the speed and ups to play slot.

Definitely will never start QB, but watch. He'll get his own formations where he throws and runs. and catches. He does it for all his haters

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vIDwg27110E/SCKTVLCBLiI/AAAAAAAAAX0/P6ys0sHRb4A/s400/williebeamon7.jpg

and jamie foxx is only 5'9 sucka

GET LOOSE
03-05-2009, 04:06 AM
Pat White will be a good starting QB in the NFL some day. I obviously like him in the wildcat but I think he can be a starter if givin a chance. Just like ma boy Troy Smith. Someone give that man the rock!!!!

SteelCzar76
03-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Pat White,....dare i say "Joe Montana with more athleticism".(given a fair shot)

Or was that over the top ? Nah,..this kid is the real deal,...you can't argue with production amongst one's peers, along the "will", intellect and understanding to maximize such abilities at the pro level.

Halsey
03-05-2009, 05:33 PM
People who are realistic about White and other athletic QB's who can't pass on an NFL level are labeled 'haters' by fans who think being exciting and athletic is what it takes to play QB in the NFL. In other words hater = realist in ignoronics. So I guess I'm 'hatin' when I laugh at comments like "Joe Montana with more athleticism". :D

BBIB
03-05-2009, 08:09 PM
It's not that there is a cookie cutter image, it's just that White isn't an NFL level passer. White's athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL like it did in college and his passing will just not cut it. NFL defenses will stack the box, force him to beat them with his arm and obliterate his thin body when he tries to make plays with his feet. He's a very poor mans Vick: slower, less elusive, smaller and weaker armed. It's not that the NFL hates mobile QB's. It's that they don't like QB's who can't pass at an NFL level, can't outrun NFL defenders and will get broken in half the first time an NFL DE nails them from the blind side.

His athletic ability won't stand out in the NFL?

That's hilarious. It's a freaking QB with the speed of some of the premiere RBs in this draft like Wells and Moreno. That is a complete headache for defenses.

You don't have to run a 4.2-4.3 to be dangerous. Hell Pat White could be the 2nd fastest QB the NFL has seen besides Vick.

And the fact that he's a far more polished passer could make him just as dangerous.

When you running the Wildcat as Mike Mayock has suggested, teams will be in a quandary. If they stay back, White could kill you with the option all day.

If you bring the safety up to the LOS, you leave him with single coverage all day on the outside and Pat White is by far a better passer than a guy like Ronnie Brown.

Pat White has value period in the NFL whether if it's as a full-time QB or one of the most dangerous utility players in the league.


But of course the people who are anti-dual threat QBs will remain skeptical. Doesn't matter if Pat White outshines other QBs in a Senior Bowl or an NFL Combine. He still can't pass according to these people. He still has no value according to these people But hey, Pat White has never had trouble proving critics wrong before. He can do it again.

BBIB
03-05-2009, 08:15 PM
White may have a role in the NFL, but I have a real hard time believing he will be a starting QB. A lot of people love him because he's a QB who is also a threat to run. The problem is he's not up to NFL standards at a QB's most important job: passing. NFL teams have RB's to run the ball. The QB needs to be able to spread the ball in the passing game first and foremost.

Find a textbook definition of the word quarterback where this is stated.
Why is the position not called passing back?

Better yet, name a quarterback who ran the ball more than they threw it.

Even Michael Vick who ran the ball more than any other QB in NFL history, passed the ball 75% of the time. Even if you counted every sack in his career as a rushing attempt he would still have a 70% clip of passing.

There is no such freaking thing as a run first QB.


And who the hell says what percentage you have to have of passing the ball? The objective of the QB position as it's definition is to direct the team down the football field. The ridiculous conservative thinking in football with the modern day QB is ridiculous.

How ironic that it used to be the opposite where the forward pass being used often was blasphemous.

Halsey
03-05-2009, 09:05 PM
"Boo Hoo! You're anti duel threat QB!"

No, I'm not anti duel threat. Pat White is not duel threat. A QB who is a good runner and bad passer is not a threat in the NFL. Saying White is a more polished passer than Vick is revisionist history. Because Vick was not a very good passer, fans who hype up every athletic QB say that every one of them is a better passer than Vick was. Donovan Mcnabb and Steve Young were dual threats, not White. Fans who have a man crush on athletic QB's do this every year. From Marcus Vick to Brad Smith to Dennis Dixon, we go through one athletic QB after another who isn't an NFL quality passer, yet some fans insist they will take the NFL by storm as a starting QB.

kwilk103
03-05-2009, 10:22 PM
hes not as bad as a passer as everyone thinks he is

hes actually pretty good

gpngc
03-05-2009, 10:38 PM
FWIW Pat White is further along as a passer than Seneca Wallace was at Iowa State at this point in his career and Wallace has now found a home as a #2 QB.

Xonraider
03-05-2009, 10:40 PM
I imagine him being a wildcat specialist, backup QB and maybe eventual WR. Slash2.1

BBIB
03-06-2009, 06:48 PM
"Boo Hoo! You're anti duel threat QB!"

No, I'm not anti duel threat. Pat White is not duel threat. A QB who is a good runner and bad passer is not a threat in the NFL. Saying White is a more polished passer than Vick is revisionist history. Because Vick was not a very good passer, fans who hype up every athletic QB say that every one of them is a better passer than Vick was. Donovan Mcnabb and Steve Young were dual threats, not White. Fans who have a man crush on athletic QB's do this every year. From Marcus Vick to Brad Smith to Dennis Dixon, we go through one athletic QB after another who isn't an NFL quality passer, yet some fans insist they will take the NFL by storm as a starting QB.

YOu're not anti-dual threat QB?

So you just happen to arbitrarily make the comparisons of Pat White to guys like Brad Smith who were not even close to as good a passer as Pat White in college?

And how has White shown he is a bad passer? Because he is a capable runner that automatically makes him a bad passer?

If Pat White looks as good throwing the football as any QB who threw the ball at the Senior Bowl or Combine, then according to you every QB who threw the ball at those events is a bad passer. Hell none of them should be drafted especially since they don't have 4.5 speed.

FWIW Pat White is further along as a passer than Seneca Wallace was at Iowa State at this point in his career and Wallace has now found a home as a #2 QB.

He's a further along passer than ANY dual threat QB since Donovan McNabb.

The comparisons to guys like Randle El, Brad Smith, Cribbs, etc are completely unsubstantiated and only made because of White's size and athletic ability.

Texas Homer
03-06-2009, 08:18 PM
Nothing against Pat White, but I wouldn't draft him in the top 4 rounds as a QB if I'm a GM.

I like the guy. He was awesome as a QB in college, but I'm just not sold on him in the NFL.

I'm rooting for him though.

BBIB
03-07-2009, 10:33 AM
Nothing against Pat White, but I wouldn't draft him in the top 4 rounds as a QB if I'm a GM.

I like the guy. He was awesome as a QB in college, but I'm just not sold on him in the NFL.

I'm rooting for him though.

I don't have a problem with people not being sold on him. When it comes to dual threat QBs most people are a little skeptical. With Vick out of the league and Vince Young not panning out so far, in recent memory many people are skeptical of any dual threat guy in college staying at the QB position.

My problem is when guys rule it out completely like these guys are destined to fail at the QB position no matter what and are automatically pigeon holed in the Cribbs, Randle EL, etc. mold.


Yeah Pat White has the rushing yardage title in common with those guys while in school, but he's so much better than those guys as passers that it's truly unfair to make those comparisons. Heck Pat White finished his career ranked 11th in efficiency among QBs with 15+ starts at the end of this season.

That's so far better than all those guys who switched to WR it's not even funny.


And it's not just the numbers. Pat White shows he is a gamer, even if it's a Senior Bowl. And he shows he can perform under pressure with his boyhood dream on the line at the NFL combine where he shows up and looks as good as any QB throwing the ball there.


The guy is a unique player who has that "IT" factor. And if there is anyone who can change the dogma against dual threat QBs it's him


He may not have Mike Vick's talent, but he has a lot better head on his shoulders and the intangibles going for him

B-Dawk
03-07-2009, 11:36 AM
my problem with pat white is not as a football player, its his attitude. I dont see him as a good leader, and he tends to disappear or get hurt in big spots.

kwilk103
03-07-2009, 11:43 AM
my problem with pat white is not as a football player, its his attitude. I dont see him as a good leader, and he tends to disappear or get hurt in big spots.

attitude? of course hes gonna get hurt; he weighed 190 lbs; hes not built to carry the ball as much as he did

guess you forgot the ul game his freshman year, where we were down 17 with 8 min to go and he brought us back

or the gator bowl where he was hurt so bad, he was screaming in pain after every play

you cant question his leadership

Shane P. Hallam
03-07-2009, 11:47 AM
attitude? of course hes gonna get hurt; he weighed 190 lbs; hes not built to carry the ball as much as he did

guess you forgot the ul game his freshman year, where we were down 17 with 8 min to go and he brought us back

or the gator bowl where he was hurt so bad, he was screaming in pain after every play

you cant question his leadership


I believe he can, and I believe he did.

Bengalsrocket
03-07-2009, 12:49 PM
"Boo Hoo! You're anti duel threat QB!"

No, I'm not anti duel threat. Pat White is not duel threat. A QB who is a good runner and bad passer is not a threat in the NFL. Saying White is a more polished passer than Vick is revisionist history. Because Vick was not a very good passer, fans who hype up every athletic QB say that every one of them is a better passer than Vick was. Donovan Mcnabb and Steve Young were dual threats, not White. Fans who have a man crush on athletic QB's do this every year. From Marcus Vick to Brad Smith to Dennis Dixon, we go through one athletic QB after another who isn't an NFL quality passer, yet some fans insist they will take the NFL by storm as a starting QB.

duel = a contest between two people(s).
dual = two.

I can tell it was just fast typing though because you got it right the 3rd time :)

Anyways, you make very good points. Donovan McNabb and Steve Young were both great dual threats (though if I remember correctly McNabb being called out for his inconsistency / accuracy. And Steve Young only had 1 great year under his belt)

I know stats don't mean much, especially when evaluating talent. But it's always fun to see how new guys stack up to the other's, so here are the stats of all 3 when comparing their rushes and passes.


McNabb - 9,950 yards total.
- Passing: 8,389 yards -77 TDs
- Rushing: 1,561 yards - 19 TDs

Steve Young - 8,781 yards total.
- Passing: 7,733 yards - 56 TDs
- Rushing: 1,048 - 18 TDs

White - 10,529 yards total.
- Passing: 6,049 yards - 56 TDs
- Rushing: 4,480 yards - 46 TDs

It's obviously how much more he relies on his legs than both McNabb and Young - however, his total yardage is impressive. McNabb and Pat White both played 4 seasons (49 games) while Steve Young only played 3 seasons (37?) games.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see. I think he's a decent passer and possibly gets a bad rap for being an athletic quarterback.

On a side note, I don't think athleticism has anything to do with how good a QB is. I firmly believe that guys like Steve Young and Donovan McNabb would be great QB's even in wheel chairs. The Quarterback position is very cerebral and arm strong, athleticism and coordination are all very important, but still second to the quarterback's mind.

I'm not saying anyone has to be a genius to play this game either. I mean, Terry Bradshaw couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted him the C and the T, but at least he could read a defense.

BBIB
03-07-2009, 12:49 PM
I believe he can, and I believe he did.

Sure you can, but it doesn't make it a legitimate argument.

Pat WHite not having leadership? THat's absolutely laughable. He was the unquestioned leader of that WVU team.

BBIB
03-07-2009, 12:54 PM
It's obviously how much more he relies on his legs than both McNabb and Young - however, his total yardage is impressive. McNabb and Pat White both played 4 seasons (49 games) while Steve Young only played 3 seasons (37?) games.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see. I think he's a decent passer and possibly gets a bad rap for being an athletic quarterback.

Pat White's tendency to run the ball may not even be as high as people are making it. People have to remember the type of system he played in. WVU was a run first, run 2nd team under Rodriguez. And although they claimed they were going to pass the ball a lot more this season, they didn't quite keep it going that way over the course of the season.


One thing's for sure, the knack for being labeled an athlete will definitely hurt Pat White's chances of getting a look at QB in the NFL.

But if he gets it, there is no doubt in my mind he will succeed. And even without that shot as a full-time QB, again he could be the most dangerous utility player in the league.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 04:30 PM
For all of you guys talking about White not being a good passer just shows that you know absolutely nothing about him and are only feeding off of the media dribble everyone's been putting out there about him. He was far and away the best passer at both the Senior Bowl and Combine... That must have been a fluke... right? He has a stronger arm than anyone gives him credit for, 4.45 speed is WRish and is freakish for any QB and who doesn't like a guy that can avoid pressure and pick up 1st downs with his legs? If you want a prototypical QB that hasn't done squat in their career or has only had one good season then that's fine, but i'll take Pat White over any QB in the nation right now. He's determined, he's been successful, and he's shown great pride and character when asked to switch positions and so far, has proved doubters wrong.

I said a while back that he would be the steal of the draft and I think given the chance he will... He's better than Smith, better than Shockley and much better passer than VY... Just because he's shorter he can't get it done? That line of thinking is going to cost some team a good QB in this years draft..

Halsey
03-07-2009, 04:41 PM
There's a difference is being a good passer in college and being a good enough passer to be an effective starting quality QB in the NFL. Even Seneca Wallace, who surprised a lot of people by being a quality backup in the NFL, is not an effective starting quality NFL QB. Even Tim Tebow, who is being called by some "The great college player of all time" , and has impressive passing stats in college, is not considered a starting QB prospect by many because they think he will not be an NFL starting quality passer. Could White be a quality backup QB who also comes in the game for certain plays such as wildcat type formations? Maybe, but that's not the same as being an effective starter.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 05:11 PM
There's a difference is being a good passer in college and being a good enough passer to be an effective starting quality QB in the NFL. Even Seneca Wallace, who surprised a lot of people by being a quality backup in the NFL, is not an effective starting quality NFL QB. Even Tim Tebow, who is being called by some "The great college player of all time" , and has impressive passing stats in college, is not considered a starting QB prospect by many because they think he will not be an NFL starting quality passer. Could White be a quality backup QB who also comes in the game for certain plays such as wildcat type formations? Maybe, but that's not the same as being an effective starter.

First of all this makes absolutely no sense at all... If you aren't gauged on your ability to pass in college then WTF are you gauged on? I know there are other attributes like arm strength, wins and system, but I'm sure the single most predominant feature is your ability to pass... You, like so many others on this board, look at the argument like there is a predetermined mold for good players in this league instead of looking at prospects in a vacuum.

I know this is a little off point but here are some examples:

For QB's: If a guy isn't 6'3 with a rocket arm he's an automatic bust

For RB's: If they aren't 220lbs and run a 4.4 forty they are auto bust

For WR's: Anything other than 4.4 is pretty much slow

For OL: 26 bench reps and not playing in the SEC makes you a bust

For DE: If you aren't 6'4 275 that runs a 4.75 you're an automatic tweener and poised to play OLB in a 3-4...


The point is that there isn't a mold, or form as to who is a good player... Either they are good or they aren't... Either they have potential and have the will to succeed or they don't... There isn't a height, weight or body type that is indicative of how good a person will or will not be...

I think it's insane to count any player out of being a good player in the NFL because of their attributes... Don't judge a book by it's cover, right? Same principle...

Halsey
03-07-2009, 05:32 PM
No, I don' think there is some mold players have to fit in, but that doesn't mean Pat White is going to be a starting quality NFL QB. Some QB's can overcome issues they have that will make it hard to translate into a starting quality NFL QB, but Pat White has many issues and doesn't have enough going for him to overcome those issues. He spent 5 years of college in a system that is very different from what NFL teams run, he's short for an NFL QB, he's got a thin frame and had durability issues in college, arm strength is less than ideal, didn't have to pass much in college(less than 1,000 pass attempts in college), etc, etc. People who think Pat White will be a starting QB in the NFL are believing what they want to believe because Pat White is a good guy, is exciting to watch and can run fast. Instead of believing what you want to believe, objectively look at Pat White and you'll see he's not going to be an effective NFL starting QB. In a couple of years, when you've finally realizes this to be true, just remember that before hyping up the next athletic college QB who is exciting to watch, but is clearly not going to start at QB in the NFL.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 07:25 PM
You just contradicted yourself. Either there is a mold for players or not. Your mold is obviously stated in your reasons as to why he won't be any good.

For one, most QB's in college don't run a pro style offense so who cares?

Two, if there is no "mold" for NFL talent then why would it matter if he's 5'10 or not?

Three, Pat White had the strongest and most accurate arm out of all the QB's at the combine and Senior Bowl including golden boy Mark Sanchez so i'm not sure why you'd say that his arm was inadequate.

Fourth, I'm not hyping up Pat White for anything I'm just calling it like I see it... I know that it's hard to go against the grain in this day and age... To actually go with your own observations instead of the masses is a bit odd anymore but it has been quite accurate for me so I stick with what works for me... Either way one of us will be right so it's just a matter of time i guess...


No, I don' think there is some mold players have to fit in, but that doesn't mean Pat White is going to be a starting quality NFL QB. Some QB's can overcome issues they have that will make it hard to translate into a starting quality NFL QB, but Pat White has many issues and doesn't have enough going for him to overcome those issues. He spent 5 years of college in a system that is very different from what NFL teams run, he's short for an NFL QB, he's got a thin frame and had durability issues in college, arm strength is less than ideal, didn't have to pass much in college(less than 1,000 pass attempts in college), etc, etc. People who think Pat White will be a starting QB in the NFL are believing what they want to believe because Pat White is a good guy, is exciting to watch and can run fast. Instead of believing what you want to believe, objectively look at Pat White and you'll see he's not going to be an effective NFL starting QB. In a couple of years, when you've finally realizes this to be true, just remember that before hyping up the next athletic college QB who is exciting to watch, but is clearly not going to start at QB in the NFL.

Halsey
03-07-2009, 08:05 PM
If you're going to make up nonsense to support your argument, then you're just not worth the effort to debate. Saying Pat White had the strongest arm at the combine is pure fiction. Nobody who really believes Pat White is anything but a major long shot to be a starting QB in the NFL is a reasonable person.

BBIB
03-07-2009, 08:25 PM
If you're going to make up nonsense to support your argument, then you're just not worth the effort to debate. Saying Pat White had the strongest arm at the combine is pure fiction. Nobody who really believes Pat White is anything but a major long shot to be a starting QB in the NFL is a reasonable person.

You obviously did not watch the combine. He was as impressive as any quarterback when it comes to accuracy and velocity on his throws.

And people who have watched Pat White play at WVU have seen him show the ability to do this. The bullet pass he threw vs UNC was an NFL stick throw.

One that Seneca Wallace and the other QBs he's pigeon holed and compared to couldn't make. And for the record Wallace is one of the best backup QBs in the league. The guy had 11 TDs to 3 INTs last year. For his career he has 22 TDs to 12 INTs. That's basically what Golden Boy Matt Cassel put up this year. And the Seahawks didn't exactly have a star studded cast either.

Not to mention Wallace doesn't have the athletic ability of Pat White. Although the funny thing is Pat White ran a similar 40 time, there is no comparison between the two in the open field.


It's funny you say he has things that cannot be overcome when if there is any quarterback who could overcome things and prove his critics wrong it's Pat White. Te guy who has done it his whole football career from High School where he showed he could play QB after playing receiver as a sophmore, where he had to prove it again in college, and now for NFL scouts.

Many of which who are getting the clue. He's the #5 QB on Kiper's board, he's the #4 QB on Scout.com and he's the #4 QB by DraftScout/CBS SPortsline.


And if he gets the chance to prove himself, he could be as good as any QB that is ranked higher than him.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 08:37 PM
If you're going to make up nonsense to support your argument, then you're just not worth the effort to debate. Saying Pat White had the strongest arm at the combine is pure fiction. Nobody who really believes Pat White is anything but a major long shot to be a starting QB in the NFL is a reasonable person.


What did I make up? I mean seriously, the only one sounding questionable is you... I tell you all the reasons that I think he's going to be good and you rebuttal with this nonsense.. If you are unwilling to see the facts, then there's nothing left to argue so why bother?

Halsey
03-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Mel Kiper has said very clearly that he doesn't think Pat White is a prospect as a starting QB. He sees him as a ""slash" type, a third quarterback or wide receiver slot guy and return man, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were gobbled up in the late second round or third round.".

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3954478&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist %3dkiper_jr_mel%26id%3d3954478

Being an backup QB/WR/KR is not the same as being a starting quality NFL QB prospect. That's what every 'draft guru' worth a darn says. His rating as a prospect is based heavily on his potential to play WR/KR/Special plays QB. Nobody will draft him to be a starting QB. Looking good at the combine doesn't change the facts that he spent 4 years in an offense that didn't prepare him to be an NFL QB and he didn't even attempt 1,000 passes in his career. I haven't heard/read anyone of consequence say they think Pat White will be a starting NFL QB.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 09:25 PM
Is that the same MKJ that rated Robert Gallery as one of his highest rated draft prospects of all time? The real truth is that no matter how much analysis you put into it there is no bottom line formula for who makes it in this league, and that is where you're reason's fall short... Do I know Pat White or if he will be the best QB in this draft? No... But we can only call them like we see them and that's all i'm doing.. You are calling them like others see them and that isn't always a good thing....


Mel Kiper has said very clearly that he doesn't think Pat White is a prospect as a starting QB. He sees him as a ""slash" type, a third quarterback or wide receiver slot guy and return man, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were gobbled up in the late second round or third round.".

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3954478&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist %3dkiper_jr_mel%26id%3d3954478

Being an backup QB/WR/KR is not the same as being a starting quality NFL QB prospect. That's what every 'draft guru' worth a darn says. His rating as a prospect is based heavily on his potential to play WR/KR/Special plays QB. Nobody will draft him to be a starting QB. Looking good at the combine doesn't change the facts that he spent 4 years in an offense that didn't prepare him to be an NFL QB and he didn't even attempt 1,000 passes in his career. I haven't heard/read anyone of consequence say they think Pat White will be a starting NFL QB.

Halsey
03-07-2009, 09:38 PM
I am giving my own opinions while taking the opinions of others into consideration. It's funny how you agree with Kiper when he says White is the 5th rated QB, but then you see why Kiper rates him that way he suddenly knows nothing.

jsagan77
03-07-2009, 09:45 PM
I am giving my own opinions while taking the opinions of others into consideration. It's funny how you agree with Kiper when he says White is the 5th rated QB, but then you see why Kiper rates him that way he suddenly knows nothing.

Hmmm.. When did I say that? This is like a bad episode of "The Office"...

BBIB
03-08-2009, 04:51 PM
I am giving my own opinions while taking the opinions of others into consideration. It's funny how you agree with Kiper when he says White is the 5th rated QB, but then you see why Kiper rates him that way he suddenly knows nothing.

Kiper was one example. I see how you conveniently ignored where Scout.com has Pat White listed and Mike Mayock thinks Pat White has value in the 2nd round regardless of position

Not everyone thinks Pat White can play QB but plenty of people think he has a helluva lot more value than you are giving him credit for having.

I just personally think if he gets the shot at QB he would exceed but obviously it's a moot point if no one is willing to have one.

But there is no doubt he will have an impact in the NFL. People are severely underestimating how dangerous he could be in the Wildcat offense

kwilk103
03-12-2009, 02:54 PM
interesting; no teams asked him to run routes

MORGANTOWN, W. Va. — West Virginia’s Pro Day has drawn representatives from 25 NFL teams, most to get a deeper evaluation of multi-faceted quarterback Pat White.

White did not participate in any of the strength or running drills, choosing to stand on his draft combine performances in those realms.

Several teams came here today planning on watching White throw and partake in receiver drills, since he could have to transition to wideout in the NFL. White told me before the field drills started what he has been saying all along — that he planned only to throw, but that he would run routes upon request. Well, after he finished throwing, it turned out that’s all he did. In fact, the majority of the people who were there to watch White left after he threw and weren’t waiting to see him do anything but throw

thenewfeature06
03-12-2009, 02:56 PM
Pat White wants to prove he can be a successful QB in the league, i'm not sold on his transistion yet but i do like him better as a QB prospect competely

gpngc
03-12-2009, 03:05 PM
interesting; no teams asked him to run routes

MORGANTOWN, W. Va. — West Virginia’s Pro Day has drawn representatives from 25 NFL teams, most to get a deeper evaluation of multi-faceted quarterback Pat White.

White did not participate in any of the strength or running drills, choosing to stand on his draft combine performances in those realms.

Several teams came here today planning on watching White throw and partake in receiver drills, since he could have to transition to wideout in the NFL. White told me before the field drills started what he has been saying all along — that he planned only to throw, but that he would run routes upon request. Well, after he finished throwing, it turned out that’s all he did. In fact, the majority of the people who were there to watch White left after he threw and weren’t waiting to see him do anything but throw

lol.

So NOW everyone will be on board with it?

He's the 4th (you could argue 5th) best QB in the draft- let's face it. Tyler Thigpen and Seneca Wallace just started half a season in the NFL for their respective "teams" (if you want to call them that)- White's earned a shot at the very least.

kwilk103
03-12-2009, 03:08 PM
now, i guess mcshay said teams are mad he didnt work out from wr

but, the way that blog is written, it sounds like he threw, then most of the teams left because thats all they wanted to see

thats how i read it anyway

kwilk103
03-12-2009, 04:56 PM
from pft

WHITE’S WORKOUT FOCUSES ON QUARTERBACK
Posted by Mike Florio on March 12, 2009, 4:59 p.m. EDT
Prior to his Scouting Combine performance last month, West Virginia quarterback Pat White said that he’d work out as both a pass thrower and pass catcher during his Pro Day routine in Morgantown.

After a head-turning performance with his arm in Indy, White’s hands weren’t a focal point on Thursday in Morgantown.

White, who participated in none of the running drills, consistently delivered the ball into the hands and chests of former Mountaineer teammates, looking as poised and consistent as he did in Indianapolis.

On several throws, the ball had a loud pop when it connected with the receiver.

In one specific instance, the left-hander delivered a deep ball along the right sideline, which was hauled in by receiver Dorrell Jalloh. A fairly loud wave of applause immediately erupted. (And not just from me.)

Steve Wyche of NFL.com reports that White ran some pass routes on request. But that apparently happened after I decided to hit the road back to PFT Headquarters after the non-quarterback drills.

Wyche also reports that 25 NFL teams were represented at the West Virginia Pro Day. We personally spotted Steelers coach Mike Tomlin (who apparently always attends the WVU Pro Day, given its proximity to Pittsburgh), Bears director of college scouting Greg Gabriel, and scouts sporting the colors and logos of the Chiefs, Panthers, Packers, Vikings, Bills, Packers, Raiders, 49ers, Eagles, Giants, Ravens, Bills, and Jets.

The Panthers had two or three guys who were keeping a close eye on White as he threw passes.

Bama9507
03-12-2009, 05:52 PM
He's a stud bay bee

BBIB
03-12-2009, 06:59 PM
now, i guess mcshay said teams are mad he didnt work out from wr

but, the way that blog is written, it sounds like he threw, then most of the teams left because thats all they wanted to see

thats how i read it anyway

Well guy like McShay will dog anyone who considers Pat White a potential QB prospect because McShay after all, he has his own doctrinaire and reputation to protect.

I thought that if Pat White played well in the Bowl game, Senior Bowl, and looked good at the combine there would be at least a chance he could get some consideration as an NFL QB.

Well he's by far exceeded even my expectations in all those events and there is definitely a legit chance he can get a shot as a QB.

Is it as high a chance as Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman? Not at all. But there is a legit chance.

Woodie
03-15-2009, 01:06 AM
I didn't watch White much, so can't legitimately comment on his ability as a QB. But as far as his workout, from what I understand, there was some conflicting info out there. Apparently WVU's coach quietly spread the word prior to the workout that White wouldn't run any routes, but White supposedly said he'll run if asked. So many teams left without seeing him run.

To me, it was a case of it being a miscommunication between player and coach, White wanting to come across as willing to run routes without actually having to run them, or White struggling running routes leading up to his pro day and his coach/agent/White himself not wanting to expose himself like that. I have no idea which it is (or if its something I never thought of), but I am certain that some teams that felt they saw enough in the Bowl game and combine as a QB and wanted and expected to get a read on him at WR were not happy.

P-L
03-20-2009, 11:35 AM
Pat White worked out with Denver and New England, as a wide receiver.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/18/white-works-out-for-patriots-broncos/

Interesting...

White has been on the record as saying he prefers to remain at quarterback, but estimated that only two of 32 teams are giving him serious consideration (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/03/white-i-would-love-to-be-a-pittsburgh-steeler/) as a signal-caller. It’s a good bet White — who is not refusing to switch positions — had a clear understanding of who those two teams are. In an NFL.com live chat with White (http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/141) two weeks ago, he said if there was one team he was hoping would take him, it was the Pittsburgh Steelers.

BBIB
03-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Pat White worked out with Denver and New England, as a wide receiver.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/18/white-works-out-for-patriots-broncos/

Interesting...

Yeah I saw that earlier today.

Pat White may be the most polished and experienced passer for a dual threat Qb since McNabb but the bottom line is that he has too many things to overcome.


Not just the spread option system and the lack of success in recent years of guys like Young and Smith out of that system, but also his height and weight.

It's potentially too much to overcome in a league where there are only 32 teams unlike college and where teams are a ton more conservative and less innovative.


The bottomline though is that there is a home for Pat White in the NFL.


Although I will always think what could have been if he became a full-time QB, there is no doubt in my mind he will be at the least one of the most dangerous utility players in the league.