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View Full Version : NFL Quarterback Draft Class Showdown: 2004 vs 2003


The Ghostwriter
03-06-2009, 10:46 AM
http://theghostwriter.today.com/2009/02/28/nfl-quarterback-draft-class-showdown-2004-vs-2003/

Hard to believe that the crop of '04 has already won three Super Bowls! And none of those rings belong to the guy with the highest quarterback rating in his class.

JLaw45
03-06-2009, 12:29 PM
2004 obviously. 2003 produced a lot of solid backups, but 04 obviously takes the cake with the stars it produced.

For anyone who cares about where some of these guys ended up:

BJ Symons was most recently in the Arena league(as of 2008).
Andy Hall has been in the Arena League since 2006.
Jeff Smoker was also in the Arena League last year and played quite a bit.
Cody Pickett is in the CFL and has actually started a couple of games. Looks like he may stick around up there for a bit.
Casey Bramlet spent some time on the Dolphins and Falcons active rosters in 07 and was on the Ravens practice squad early this year.
Matt Mauck is studying to become a dentist.
Kliff Kingsbury is coaching at the University of Houston.

MarioPalmer
03-06-2009, 01:06 PM
Honestly, if all those guys were coming out at the same time and they were all in the same draft together, Carson Palmer would still go #1 overall.

Paler along with Peyton Manning and John Elway as the best 3 QB prospects of all time. No noe comes close to their ability and the way they were looked at coming out of college.

I remember the 2003 NFL Draft, Cincy basically selected Carson Palmer in January of that year, everyone and their mother knew he was the pick.

And if it wasn't for an absolutely horrid front office, Palmer would be a future Hall of Fame QB. And if you had to take someone based on talent and ability between both of those 2 drafts, Carson still grades out higher than all 5 major QBs.

Only Ben Rothlisberger comes close in terms of physical ability, but even he doesn't have the arm strength and accuracy of Palmer, and as far as mechanics and footwork and delivery goes Carson is 10's across the board.

Carson was the best QB prospect of the last 10 years and only Peyton and Elway are in the same class with physical ability and prototype size, strength and accuracy.

yourfavestoner
03-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Honestly, if all those guys were coming out at the same time and they were all in the same draft together, Carson Palmer would still go #1 overall.

Paler along with Peyton Manning and John Elway as the best 3 QB prospects of all time. No noe comes close to their ability and the way they were looked at coming out of college.

I remember the 2003 NFL Draft, Cincy basically selected Carson Palmer in January of that year, everyone and their mother knew he was the pick.

And if it wasn't for an absolutely horrid front office, Palmer would be a future Hall of Fame QB. And if you had to take someone based on talent and ability between both of those 2 drafts, Carson still grades out higher than all 5 major QBs.

Only Ben Rothlisberger comes close in terms of physical ability, but even he doesn't have the arm strength and accuracy of Palmer, and as far as mechanics and footwork and delivery goes Carson is 10's across the board.

Carson was the best QB prospect of the last 10 years and only Peyton and Elway are in the same class with physical ability and prototype size, strength and accuracy.

Don't let those homer goggles blind you. ;)

Carson was seen as a wildly erratic and inconsistent quarterback (and that's being kind) until he put it all together his senior year. Carson wasn't the surefire number one overall you make him out to be either. I remember the Bengals were seriously debating on taking Terrence Newman first overall until ultimately deciding on Palmer.

He was an excellent quarterback prospect, don't get me wrong. Personally, I think Eli and Jamarcus Russell were slightly prospects better coming out.

the decider13
03-06-2009, 03:11 PM
I don't think that Jamarcus was anywhere close to Palmer. I remember that mocks up until the week before the draft waffled between Jamarcus and Quinn as #1. If Quinn had gone #1, Jamarcus probably taken the same historic fall.

Eli, I can see as close to Palmer, but I still think Palmer is the best QB prospect of the 2000's.

CC.SD
03-06-2009, 04:07 PM
Don't let revisionist history fool you, the best QB PROSPECT of the 2000s was Vick and it wasn't close. However when Carson put all his tools in the same box he was untouchable; Eli and Jamarcus were not close to the same level.

Burger
03-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Vick is the most overrated QB of this decade. I remember Palmer was good coming out of college. I always thought Leftwich was the better prospect, with the deadly arm, and the accuracy, he just had a slow throwing motion Martz would love.

bigbluedefense
03-07-2009, 08:45 AM
The 04 class will have at least 2 more SB championships to its name by the end of their careers.

I firmly believe that.

MarioPalmer
03-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Don't let revisionist history fool you, the best QB PROSPECT of the 2000s was Vick and it wasn't close. However when Carson put all his tools in the same box he was untouchable; Eli and Jamarcus were not close to the same level.

Absolutely, Carson was the "it", franchise, elite, prototype QB that every single #1 picking team looks for ever in any draft ever. Russell doesn't hold Carsons jock, and Eli, because of his idoicy of the #1 overall debacle and his throwing off his back foot and his low key attitude all grade him lower than Carson.

Carson as a prospect was untouchable and only Peyton and Elway had the same kind of grade out as he did. Newman? That was a smoke screen, and don't be fooled, ask any Bengal fan and they will tell you that Carson Palmer was the pick back in Jan, it wasn't even debatable. Carson was as sure a 1rst rounder as you could get, and not a single QB since is on the same elite level as he is.

And this isn't homer, this is grading out prospctes, and Carson is the perfect QB prospect, he had and has virtually no weakness and everything from arm strength, accuracy, size, mechanics and intangibles are all graded out as elite, and he is considered once in a lifetime prospect along with Pace, Peyton, Mario etc. None of the QBs that have come out since or before with the exception of Peyton were considered once in a lifetime, can't miss prospects, and that includes Eli (who is no where near as good as Carson then or now) and JaMarcus (he is no where near as good as Carson was then or now, to even try and debate theses is just downright laughable).

Carson Palmer would be the best QB in this league if it wasn't for him playing for the worst run franchise in the NFL. At least Al Davis spends money, Brown doesn't do **** and allows anyone that has any skill that wants money to leave. Steinbach and T.J. should have never left, Takeo Spikes shoudl have never left and never should have had Madeau Wiliams left either.

This franchise is in shambles and its a crime to watch such a talented QB like Carson be dragged down by this scrubby owner and his decisions.

hockey619
03-07-2009, 02:29 PM
MarioPalmer

How can you claim that Palmer was SO far superior to Jamarcus Russell? Russell has size, arm strength, mobility, and was considered a great leader and clutch coming out of LSU. Hes bigger than Palmer, has a better arm (and arguing that point IS laughable, unlike comparing these two), the only killer on Russell was some questioned his decision making and he came out early so that made some a little wiery.

Both had good accuracy coming out, but Jamarcus' was a little more inconsistent. Both pulled it together their last year of college to become big time players.

I really liked Russell, only having issues with whether or not he had the work ethic to get it done, but I still think Palmer has a slight edge because he was more consistent, but to say comparing them is laughable is quite a stretch.

Go_Eagles77
03-07-2009, 03:25 PM
The 04 class will have at least 2 more SB championships to its name by the end of their careers.

I firmly believe that.
So you have that much faith in Pittsburgh and San Diego, huh? lol

Donno
03-07-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't think that Jamarcus was anywhere close to Palmer. I remember that mocks up until the week before the draft waffled between Jamarcus and Quinn as #1. If Quinn had gone #1, Jamarcus probably taken the same historic fall.

Eli, I can see as close to Palmer, but I still think Palmer is the best QB prospect of the 2000's.

I thought Detroit was interested in Jamarcus

thule
03-07-2009, 07:56 PM
MarioPalmer

How can you claim that Palmer was SO far superior to Jamarcus Russell? Russell has size, arm strength, mobility, and was considered a great leader and clutch coming out of LSU. Hes bigger than Palmer, has a better arm (and arguing that point IS laughable, unlike comparing these two), the only killer on Russell was some questioned his decision making and he came out early so that made some a little wiery.

Both had good accuracy coming out, but Jamarcus' was a little more inconsistent. Both pulled it together their last year of college to become big time players.

I really liked Russell, only having issues with whether or not he had the work ethic to get it done, but I still think Palmer has a slight edge because he was more consistent, but to say comparing them is laughable is quite a stretch.

skin color was the difference

SenorGato
03-07-2009, 08:03 PM
I kind of agree on Palmer.

I think the guy right after him (Jay Cutler) had a very similar storyline.

Both were basically QB's with elite physical skills as juniors. Once they produced and looked on tape liked they produced and looked on tape for their senior years, it cemented their place as QB prospects.

Then is Phillip Rivers.

Vick did get a crapload of hype..."change the QB position" and all...

I like Big Ben, but long term I like Eli and Rivers more. Ben has the huge advantage of playing for the Steelers though...

MarioPalmer
03-09-2009, 11:47 PM
I kind of agree on Palmer.

I think the guy right after him (Jay Cutler) had a very similar storyline.

Both were basically QB's with elite physical skills as juniors. Once they produced and looked on tape liked they produced and looked on tape for their senior years, it cemented their place as QB prospects.

Then is Phillip Rivers.

Vick did get a crapload of hype..."change the QB position" and all...

I like Big Ben, but long term I like Eli and Rivers more. Ben has the huge advantage of playing for the Steelers though...

You think? Everytime I watch them play the Bengals I get so pissed. Don't get me wrong Big Ben is one helluva QB and is going to go down as one of the winningest quarterbacks in the history of the NFL, mark it down by the way, but I just can't helhow awesome Carson Palmer would be looked at had he been playing for them. And the same could be said for a lot of those really good teams but aren't completely settled in at the QB spot. Can you imagine Carson in Dallas? I mean hello, Troy Aikman all over again. Or Carson in Carolina, Washington, Tennessee, Minnesota or Arizona (he would break records like nobody's business if he had those kind of weapons and defense to keep him in the game).

As for Carson being a better prospect then Russell, there is no question. This league bases it's elite QB prsopects on physical tools and one big thing that Russell doesn't compare to Palmer in and thats work ethic and intagibles. Carson scores 100 across the board. When he was coming out there wasn't a single substantial knock on him at all. On Russell, there was weight, work ethic, accuracy issues and inconsistencies, dicision making and overall experience. Carson was a national champion, playing in a great confernce at the time, not to say that Russell wasn't, but Carson shredded that league. The same legue that produced out standing talent. Carson played outstanding in all the big games and showed the type of work ethic and consistency that NFL coaches, GMs and especially owners absolutely loved and felt quite comfortable in taking.

Here is a question for you, if Carson Palmer and JaMarcus Russell were coming out at the same time, there is no doubt and I woud be willing to bet my life on this, that every single team in the NFL would all take Palmer over Russell and not think twice about it. Remember, Lane Kiffin had his doubts about Russell, and didn't want to take him. Do you honestly believe that Lane Kiffin would have had the same doubts about Carson Palmer, regardless of his USC affiliation? Exactly my point. Palmer was the most complete QB prospect since Peyton Manning, and there hasn't been one since.

Mr. Hero
03-10-2009, 12:45 PM
MarioPalmer I think you might be suffering from some minor amnesia, carson was hugely inconsistent before his senior season and there where a lot of question about whether he was worth the first overall pick, since I remember reading a lot of scouting reports that worried he was a one year wonder at the position and his leadership was certainly questioned. Now Carson has proved he was worth it by working hard and playing great football, but Carson wasn't even close to Peyton, Elway or even Vick's level as a prospect. His upside wasn't on par with vick or elway and he didn't have the disgustingly cerebral control of his offense that peyton had at UT.