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View Full Version : Happy birthday Matt Millen!


Matthew Jones
03-12-2009, 08:44 PM
The greatest GM of our time is 51 today. Rumor has it he's partying with Joey Harrington, Charles Rodgers, and Mike Williams today.

Michigan
03-12-2009, 09:33 PM
Happy birthday to the man we as aspiring draftniks should model ourselves over, Matthew George Millen.

TimD
03-12-2009, 09:34 PM
I wonder if he'll ever work in the NFL again... I would love to see him become a GM again in a few years and do amazing. Just to see the Lions reaction... Detroit would rebel haha

tjsunstein
03-12-2009, 09:36 PM
http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/joeyandmatt.jpg

Shane P. Hallam
03-12-2009, 09:47 PM
I wonder if he'll ever work in the NFL again... I would love to see him become a GM again in a few years and do amazing. Just to see the Lions reaction... Detroit would rebel haha

Nah. Millen is tainted, and wrongly. He was a terrible GM, yes, but the guy was an excellent excellent commentator and analyst for YEARS before being hired to GM a team. He has great football knowledge and can break down a game with the best of him. When you see him on TV, don't scoff, he knows his stuff (and please don't come in here with BS about "if he knows so much, why was he a crappy GM?" Same reasons writers, analysts, and others aren't GMs, they are very different and a lot is more involved. Why hasn't Kiper ever been hired as a GM?)

TimD
03-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Why hasn't Kiper ever been hired as a GM

Idk, he has an awesome gig right now. I wonder if team's have ever approached him about becoming their head scout/assistant GM. I doubt he'd go straight to GM.

Brodeur
03-12-2009, 09:57 PM
This thread disgusts me.

jballa838
03-12-2009, 10:02 PM
Idk, he has an awesome gig right now. I wonder if team's have ever approached him about becoming their head scout/assistant GM. I doubt he'd go straight to GM.
because if Kiper is wrong about a top 5 pick or a FA now as God, he just says ok. If he were wrong as a GM, he would set his team back and could possibly be fired. Too much Risk for zero gain. I think this is what JBond was virtually saying.

The_Dude
03-12-2009, 10:03 PM
Here's a B-Day present for him.... stolen striaght from the Funny Pictures Thread!

http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/nerickson_photo/cid0ab590817e2c4f17b281.jpg

SaintsFanForLife
03-12-2009, 10:26 PM
http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/joeyandmatt.jpg

Looks like he is about to kiss him, No wonder Joey never had his head in the game.

holt_bruce81
03-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Dude does not deserve a Happy Birthday thread!

Beans
03-12-2009, 10:42 PM
wow i totally forgot who charles rogers was

MetSox17
03-12-2009, 11:18 PM
because if Kiper is wrong about a top 5 pick or a FA now as God, he just says ok. If he were wrong as a GM, he would set his team back and could possibly be fired. Too much Risk for zero gain. I think this is what JBond was virtually saying.

Hit it right in the head. It's all about weighing the risk/reward. Kiper is obviously no idiot, he has no need to risk his great job at ESPN working half of the year and probably making a **** ton of money, i wouldn't say he travels much and unless he embarrasses ESPN outside of the studio, i don't see a reason why they won't keep bringing him back year after year. He has no where near that security/comfort working for an NFL team.

Brent
03-12-2009, 11:57 PM
He ******* ruined one of my favorite college QBs of all time, Joey Harrington. **** that guy.

Shane P. Hallam
03-13-2009, 12:09 AM
He ruined him by...picking him?

Brodeur
03-13-2009, 12:13 AM
He ruined him by...picking him?

Hiring two consecutive guys who he knew planned on implementing an offense that in no way was fit to Joey Harrington's skills.

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 12:40 AM
Matt Millen is one of the biggest pieces of **** to ever grace the fropnt office of a NFL franchise. He single handedly destroyed a franchise that had the picks and oppertunities to become a contender and a force in the NFL. Go back and look at those picks and look at their needs to correspond with those picks and the players that were drafted afterwards. Its an absolute disgrace that a man like that was allowed to destroy a franchise and then allowed to leave without being a arrested for stealing peoples money.

Should we go back and look at what they had an oppertunity to take, it will make you absolutely sick. Let's just say they could have had Andre Johnson (2002 1rst Rnd), Jay Cutler (2006 1rst Rnd), Jamaal Brown (2005 1rst Rnd), Calvin Johnson (finally the right pick), Casey Hampton (2001 1rst Rnd), Quentin Jammer (2002 1rst Rnd), Clinton Portis (twice 2002 2nd Rnd), Anquan Boldin (2nd Rnd 2003), Rashean Mathis (2003 2nd Rnd) and Jason Witten (2003 3rd Rnd) all in the same draft after the Lions made their choice and all three positions were of high need.

In 2004 they chose Roy Williams which is looked at as a decent pick, but when you look back th eplayers they passed up on, especially if they had made the right choices the previous years with their recievers they could have taken Jonathan Vilma, Tommie Harris, Shawn Andrews or Will Smith, not too mention Vince Wilfork who would have helped them tremendously.

In 2005 Matt Millen decided to take a shot at another WR in Mike Williams. A player that hadn't played in 1 full year yet the great Millen thought this kid, along with dummy Kiper, to be a red zone freak that would be a TD catching machine. Well he wasn't, and the needs they passed on to try and help Harrington more were DeMarcus Ware, Shawn Merriman, Jammal Brown, Thomas Davis (who could have made the change to LB just as he did in Carolina and still would have been a huge upgrade to their LB corps) or they could have gone the easy route and take an athletic freak in Derrick Johnson who was widely considered the best LB prospect in the 2005 draft. In the 2nd round Millen chooses a mediocre tiered prospect who would have been a 5th or 6th rounder had he not played for the SC Trojans. Shaun Cody was picked over players that were needed to shore up their weak secondary. Nick Collins, Ronald Bartell, Klvin Hayden, Oshiomogho Atogwe and Ellis Hobbs were all passed on. They also passed on Lofa Tatupa when they needed a presence in the middle of the defense LB corps. They passed on Michael Roos when they needed a legit long term answer at the ORT position and Roos was widely considered a terrific small school guy along with passing on OT Khalif Barnes who was considered a 1rst rounder by some.

In 2006 they chose Ernie Sims, and yes Sims is one of the better up and comers in the league, but with Joey Harrington being done in Detroit and the verdict was out that he was a bust they had an oppertunity to take Jay Cutler or at the least Matt Leinert. Now I have a feeling that Leinert would have been the pick, but you can't help but think that Cutler was there and ther Lions needed to explore those scenerios. But they didn't and went smallish LB instead, that had the hype of being the next Derrick Brooks.

In 2007, they finally made the right choice in Calvin Johnson, but as great as Calvin is, nd don't get me wrong, he is outstanding and one of the premiere WE in the league, they still could have had Joe Thomas, who in this day and age is more valuable then a WR. I know, I know, a Calvin is a once in a lifetime player, but he can't have an impact without a QB and a QB can't have an impact without a legit premiere OLT. Joe Thomas was the pick, but an elite WR is a great consolation prize..LOL

Cherilus has a lot to prove, but they were forced into taking him, so I will give him some slack and maybe he will turn into a solid run blocking mauler, but if thats what they were looking for then Jeff Otah should have been their choice. Otah looks to be the next Kareem McKenzie, a big nasty mammoth tackle that is a terrific road grader.

Matt Millen is the reason, the sole reason why the Detroit Lions are the worst team in the NFL and it looks to be a long slow rebuilding process. Only the Rams and Chiefs have had a pitiful draft picks over the same amount of time, and you can see how a bad GM making bad draft piks can effect a franchise.

TimD
03-13-2009, 12:58 AM
I wouldn't say the sole reason. Ford definitely deserves some credit for that failure.

Hollywood
03-13-2009, 01:19 AM
I heard that when he blew out the candle at his birthday party he wished for a wide receiver.

Menardo75
03-13-2009, 01:43 AM
He ******* ruined one of my favorite college QBs of all time, Joey Harrington. **** that guy.

I think Joey's heart ruined him sadly.

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 01:46 AM
I wouldn't say the sole reason. Ford definitely deserves some credit for that failure.

I agree, but the amount of nonsense and crap that he put forth onto the Destroit fans is almost criminal. The picks seemed more sporadic or acts of rebellion then making sound judgments on talent.

The whole Joey Harrington thing was just wierd. Joey had 1rst round grades, but top 3, I don't think so. PLus had Millen done his research instead of falling in love with a player because of a particular interview or character is just insane to say the least. Maybe Millen felt like JOey was the real deal because he had his mug on a 5 story banner in times square. Maybe Millen equated that to actual NFL talent.

And then the constant draft picks to help this kid, while the rest of the team suffered greatly. 3 receivers and 2 of which or out of the league was just the stuff that was national known and was a running joke, but the other drafts and signings and free agent deals were just as bad. Trades for players that made no sense. All of it was just one big pile of crap that stunk to high heaven and the only person that actually had power to do something about was some how hyptnotized by Millen. Ford didn't do anything until his son finally stood up and made a public statment about how horrible Millen was. Where the hell was this son 4 years ago when he saw that Harrignton wasn't working out yet Millen was in deep denial?

I mean, can you imagine if the Lions had gotten 75% of those picks right? They'd be a contender right now, and if they did have this pic coming up in April they can take Curry or the best player available instead of being pigeon hold into taking Matt Stafford.



Real quick we'll do this. I pick just a few picks right for them.


2002. 1rst Rnd Quentin Jammer
2002. 2nd Rnd Clinton Portis

2003. 1rst Rnd Andre Johnson
2003. 2nd Rnd Jason Witten

2004. 1rst Rnd (#2 1rst Rnd pick) Chris Snee

2005. 1rst Rnd Derrick Johnson
2005. 2nd Rnd Michael Roos

2006. 1rst Rnd Jay Cutler
2006. 2nd Rnd. Richard Marshall

2008. 1rst Rnd Kenny Phillips

If they had drafted those players, which were all huge needs at the time and add them to Jeff Backus (1rst 2001) & Shaun Rogers (2nd 2001), Roy Williams (1rst 2004) and because of the success of Clinton Portis you wouldn't have to draft Kevin Jones and there for draft a powerful inside offensive lineman and in 2004 Snee was one of the best inside lineman. In 2007 they can take Calvin Johnson. And because the Lions have Roos and Backus they can draft a Safety in 2008 to shore up their secondary to give them a center fielder instead of Cherilus.

Those draft picks were all needs going into to each year. And yet Millen went with hype over substance.

Imagine the Lions with those players to go along with some of the solid compliment players they have and you got yourself a legit contender that would challenge the Viks and Pack for the NFC North Division.

yourfavestoner
03-13-2009, 03:25 AM
I agree, but the amount of nonsense and crap that he put forth onto the Destroit fans is almost criminal. The picks seemed more sporadic or acts of rebellion then making sound judgments on talent.

The whole Joey Harrington thing was just wierd. Joey had 1rst round grades, but top 3, I don't think so. PLus had Millen done his research instead of falling in love with a player because of a particular interview or character is just insane to say the least. Maybe Millen felt like JOey was the real deal because he had his mug on a 5 story banner in times square. Maybe Millen equated that to actual NFL talent.

And then the constant draft picks to help this kid, while the rest of the team suffered greatly. 3 receivers and 2 of which or out of the league was just the stuff that was national known and was a running joke, but the other drafts and signings and free agent deals were just as bad. Trades for players that made no sense. All of it was just one big pile of crap that stunk to high heaven and the only person that actually had power to do something about was some how hyptnotized by Millen. Ford didn't do anything until his son finally stood up and made a public statment about how horrible Millen was. Where the hell was this son 4 years ago when he saw that Harrignton wasn't working out yet Millen was in deep denial?

I mean, can you imagine if the Lions had gotten 75% of those picks right? They'd be a contender right now, and if they did have this pic coming up in April they can take Curry or the best player available instead of being pigeon hold into taking Matt Stafford.



Real quick we'll do this. I pick just a few picks right for them.


2002. 1rst Rnd Quentin Jammer
2002. 2nd Rnd Clinton Portis

2003. 1rst Rnd Andre Johnson
2003. 2nd Rnd Jason Witten

2004. 1rst Rnd (#2 1rst Rnd pick) Chris Snee

2005. 1rst Rnd Derrick Johnson
2005. 2nd Rnd Michael Roos

2006. 1rst Rnd Jay Cutler
2006. 2nd Rnd. Richard Marshall

2008. 1rst Rnd Kenny Phillips

If they had drafted those players, which were all huge needs at the time and add them to Jeff Backus (1rst 2001) & Shaun Rogers (2nd 2001), Roy Williams (1rst 2004) and because of the success of Clinton Portis you wouldn't have to draft Kevin Jones and there for draft a powerful inside offensive lineman and in 2004 Snee was one of the best inside lineman. In 2007 they can take Calvin Johnson. And because the Lions have Roos and Backus they can draft a Safety in 2008 to shore up their secondary to give them a center fielder instead of Cherilus.

Those draft picks were all needs going into to each year. And yet Millen went with hype over substance.

Imagine the Lions with those players to go along with some of the solid compliment players they have and you got yourself a legit contender that would challenge the Viks and Pack for the NFC North Division.

The sad thing is that I can say that about Jacknsoville's front office in the past few years too. Byron Leftwich. Hugh Douglas. Reggie Williams. Matt Jones. Marcedes Lewis. Drayton Florence. Jerry Porter. David Garrard. The amount of guaranteed money that was given to these guys was absolutely disgusting.

I think it was BBD who brought up the concept that teams are like families. Good parents raise good kids. I.E. teams with structured, strong, financially supported front offices (like the Patriots, Colts, Cowboys, Chargers) create an environment that is conducive to rookie development. Some teams completely lack the ability to develop a young player - for whatever multitude of reasons there might be.

TimD
03-13-2009, 03:27 AM
dude not trying to be a dick. but you can do that for any bust.

there wouldnt be a draft if everyone knew who was going to be good/bad.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-13-2009, 09:12 AM
Haha, I got an idea, lets look back on everything and replace every pick in previous drafts with a 'best case scenario and 'knowing what we do now' approach and see how good we can make a team!! Sounds like a reasonable thing to do....

The one pick that i think was absolutely terrible that he made was Mike Williams, I didn't like that one from the get-go. The others i could see some rational for and things just didn't pan out (scheme for Harrington was probably his fault also as he never played to his strengths). Overall, he needed someone at WR to help him out, and didn't get any help from the players. Terrible GM forsure, but lets not play the 'he could have done this and got these players!!'. That is just stupid.

Bigburt63
03-13-2009, 09:30 AM
Haha, I got an idea, lets look back on everything and replace every pick in previous drafts with a 'best case scenario and 'knowing what we do now' approach and see how good we can make a team!! Sounds like a reasonable thing to do....

The one pick that i think was absolutely terrible that he made was Mike Williams, I didn't like that one from the get-go. The others i could see some rational for and things just didn't pan out (scheme for Harrington was probably his fault also as he never played to his strengths). Overall, he needed someone at WR to help him out, and didn't get any help from the players. Terrible GM forsure, but lets not play the 'he could have done this and got these players!!'. That is just stupid.

Not to mention the fact that if they had made those picks, they wouldn't have been in the high position to take the next guys anyways.

Brent
03-13-2009, 09:41 AM
He ruined him by...picking him?
Seriously. He would have been better off anywhere else.

Sniper
03-13-2009, 09:50 AM
dummy Kiper

Rule #14...

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Seriously. He would have been better off anywhere else.

Nope. Joey just stinks. He was sacked the least in 2002, 2003, and 2004 he had a 1,000 yard back and Roy. Sure he could have more pieces, but the guy didn't progress. It's up to the QB to carry the franchise on his back when you are picked 3rd overall and Joey was not a franchise QB. Sometimes you learn that out the hard way. He had Mooch too to teach him so I don't really blame the coaching. Joey is just a flat out bust anywhere he goes. Period.

Word was that Millen wanted Jammer and Old Man Ford stepped in. Mooch never liked Joey once he got here, hence Garcia in 2005.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Not to mention the fact that if they had made those picks, they wouldn't have been in the high position to take the next guys anyways.

That as well....

aNYtitan
03-13-2009, 11:06 AM
Happy Birthday Mr. Millen!

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 12:35 PM
Haha, I got an idea, lets look back on everything and replace every pick in previous drafts with a 'best case scenario and 'knowing what we do now' approach and see how good we can make a team!! Sounds like a reasonable thing to do....

The one pick that i think was absolutely terrible that he made was Mike Williams, I didn't like that one from the get-go. The others i could see some rational for and things just didn't pan out (scheme for Harrington was probably his fault also as he never played to his strengths). Overall, he needed someone at WR to help him out, and didn't get any help from the players. Terrible GM forsure, but lets not play the 'he could have done this and got these players!!'. That is just stupid.

Actually I was talking about making the right pcik roughly around 75% of the time. The made the wrong pick again and again and again. I was also talking about what their needs were at the time and the players that I had them taking filled the needs and were best available player. Harrington was terrible and was a bad pick, at the time they were in need of a elite CB, instead they traded for Dry Bly when they could have had the best CB in the draft in Jammer. They also neglected to really work out Charles Rogers and really dig into his back ground, they would have found out that he was a bit a party guy that had character concerns going into the draft, not to mention that he was a young kid coming out off a great year, more of one or two year wonder, wehn they could have had a player that was a proven leader, producer and proven winner in Andre Johnson, a guy that went right after him.

Also they passed on Clinton Portis, twice, this is the same team that hadn't had a real RB since Barry, yet they passed on a player that was in the same boat as Johnson. A proven winner, producer and leader. Again, they passed on him for players the were square pegs trying to fit them in a round hole. They needed to take best players available instead they picked players that Millen fell in love with for whatever reason.

The Mike Williams pick was the icnig on the cake for Millen. Derrick Johnson, the best LB in the draft, and a player that not only did Millen need, but was also the BPA at their slot still decided to pass, because he thought he knew something that other teams didn't.

This isn't hindsight, this is reality of their misses and how bad they missed. Look at the Rams, they pick Damoine Lewis and the pick directly after is Marcus Stroud. The Rams take Archulata and the pick right after him is Nate CLements. That means they passed on a position they were taking anyway, or a need/BPA. The ****** it up. Its not hindsight, because I still had them taking Backus, Roy, Lehman, Rogers, Bailey, etc. All I'm saying had they done their homework better and used their scouting tools and personal instead of Matt Millens gut feeling, maybe the Lions wouldn't be tied for the worst season in the history of the game and be the laughing stock of the league.

JJJ888
03-13-2009, 12:37 PM
Happy B-Day Grandpa!

Brodeur
03-13-2009, 12:43 PM
Nope. Joey just stinks. He was sacked the least in 2002, 2003, and 2004 he had a 1,000 yard back and Roy. Sure he could have more pieces, but the guy didn't progress. It's up to the QB to carry the franchise on his back when you are picked 3rd overall and Joey was not a franchise QB. Sometimes you learn that out the hard way. He had Mooch too to teach him so I don't really blame the coaching. Joey is just a flat out bust anywhere he goes. Period.


That is totally ******** and you know it. You are a Lions fan like myself so you should know that Joey got rid of the ball on little 3 yard slants or dumpoffs constantly to avoid getting sacked because of the stupid system he was being taught that didn't work for him at all. The Lions offensive line was absolutely brutal and he was pressured as much as any non David Carr QB during that time span, and the run blocking was non existent during that time.

In 2002/2003 he literally had absolutely nothing supporting cast wise, and while he finally had Roy in 2004, he was still a rookie and Jones didn't get rolling until midseason. By 2005 it was too late anyway as the first 3 years just absolutely destroyed any chance he really had.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-13-2009, 01:28 PM
That is totally ******** and you know it. You are a Lions fan like myself so you should know that Joey got rid of the ball on little 3 yard slants or dumpoffs constantly to avoid getting sacked because of the stupid system he was being taught that didn't work for him at all. The Lions offensive line was absolutely brutal and he was pressured as much as any non David Carr QB during that time span, and the run blocking was non existent during that time.

In 2002/2003 he literally had absolutely nothing supporting cast wise, and while he finally had Roy in 2004, he was still a rookie and Jones didn't get rolling until midseason. By 2005 it was too late anyway as the first 3 years just absolutely destroyed any chance he really had.

It's the West Coast offense. You get rid of the ball quickly and it works if the QB gets the ball to the right receiver. I have no problem with that system if you get a QB that can run it. Joey just wasn't very good at his decision making, he had a very good teacher in Mooch and just didn't get it. He had weapons in 2004 and 2005. Yes 2002 and 2003, he didn't have any, but that doesn't mean he's a good QB who was just lacking weapons. He was a bad QB with bad weapons. And 2004 once the running game got going, we were losing because of Joey. We started the season like 5-3. How does McNabb run the west coast with Reggie Brown,Kevin Curtis,Avant, Greg Lewis etc. It's not entirely Joey's fault we lost, but he is not a good QB and shouldn't be pitied for coming to the Lions. He would have failed anywhere. Just like David Carr would fail anywhere. Don't give me this its all the Olines fault. Get a quicker release while still making a good decision or have some pocket presence and convert a 3rd down. Thats what it takes in this league.

Sacks are dependent on the Oline's abilities, the QBs release/pocket presence abilities and the system you run.

Brodeur
03-13-2009, 01:45 PM
It's the West Coast offense. You get rid of the ball quickly and it works if the QB gets the ball to the right receiver. I have no problem with that system if you get a QB that can run it. Joey just wasn't very good at his decision making, he had a very good teacher in Mooch and just didn't get it. He had weapons in 2004 and 2005. Yes 2002 and 2003, he didn't have any, but that doesn't mean he's a good QB who was just lacking weapons. He was a bad QB with bad weapons. And 2004 once the running game got going, we were losing because of Joey. We started the season like 5-3. How does McNabb run the west coast with Reggie Brown,Kevin Curtis,Avant, Greg Lewis etc. It's not entirely Joey's fault we lost, but he is not a good QB and shouldn't be pitied for coming to the Lions. He would have failed anywhere. Just like David Carr would fail anywhere. Don't give me this its all the Olines fault. Get a quicker release while still making a good decision or have some pocket presence and convert a 3rd down. Thats what it takes in this league.

Sacks are dependent on the Oline's abilities, the QBs release/pocket presence abilities and the system you run.

No it was Mooch's/Marty's bastardized West Coast Offense. And in 2002, he was clearly not ready but he was thrown into the wolves on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen and was asked to do something with that. The same thing happened in 2003 except that Charles Rogers was moderately successful for a five game period.

Harrington was clearly not mentally strong enough to handle the devastation of those first two years, not too mention it all being followed by a coach being brought in who clearly never liked him and continued the system that he was never going to succeed in. I think Harrington could have been successful in another situation where he wasn't asked to make do with nothing.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-13-2009, 01:52 PM
No it was Mooch's/Marty's bastardized West Coast Offense. And in 2002, he was clearly not ready but he was thrown into the wolves on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen and was asked to do something with that. The same thing happened in 2003 except that Charles Rogers was moderately successful for a five game period.

Harrington was clearly not mentally strong enough to handle the devastation of those first two years, not too mention it all being followed by a coach being brought in who clearly never liked him and continued the system that he was never going to succeed in. I think Harrington could have been successful in another situation where he wasn't asked to make do with nothing.

Another reason he wasn't a good QB, no mental toughness. There was nothing expected out of him in 2002 or 2003 except for his development. We weren't expecting to go the playoffs. By 2004 and 2005, we should have been but Joey didn't progress. Mooch might have hated him, but there is a reason for that, coaches hate terrible QBs. No way he is succesful anywhere else. He's had opportunities to start in 2006 and 2007 and played like crap also and it's not because the Lions ruined him. He should have enough of a grasp of what it takes in this league to do well in Miami and Atlanta. Atlantas Oline was virtually unchanged when Baker was done but Ryan can actually make a good decision, move around in the pocket to by time and convert 3rd downs. Hence he's a franchise and Joey's 3rd string on New Orleans.

PackerLegend
03-13-2009, 05:51 PM
Im going to buy him a car! He did great things for the 3 other North teams by basically making it a 3 team division. I'll take the 33% chance to win the division over 25%. He was a good man.

Calvin & Kevin
03-13-2009, 06:16 PM
Oh god oh god please stop I thought I'd never have to hear another stupid Joey Harrington argument again. The guy sucks, he always did, he proved it beyond a doubt by what he did after he left the Lions.

As for Millen, it was obvious within a year of him taking over the team that he was all talk, and that's still all he is, great at talking and crap at everything else. He never worked hard enough, he never gathered the information he needed, he never committed to the Detroit community, he was just there to be the old man's buddy and make things sound good. F him. I hope he falls out of his plane on the way from Pennsylvania to the NBC studio on opening weekend next season.

the decider13
03-13-2009, 08:55 PM
Happy late birthday!!

Great picks on Charles Rogers and Mike Williams!!