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dregolll
03-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Stafford reminds me of John Elway so much, from his arm strength, release, size. Hell, he even looks like John Elway. That said, who has or had the greater physical tools coming out of college. John Elway from Stanford or Matthew "John" Stafford from Georgia? Lets get opinions and feedback please.

Matthew Jones
03-13-2009, 11:23 AM
Definitely John Elway. His arm was absolutely insane, even more so than Stafford's, and he was much more dangerous when running with the ball. Also, I always thought Matthew Stafford looked like Phil Mickelson.

Babylon
03-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Elway was probably my alltime favorite at any level. He didnt have the best supporting cast at Stanford and never got to a bowl game. The talent was all there though, size, vision, arm strength....i think the thing that stood out as much as that was the ability to avoid a pass rush. Really an unreal athlete.

Stafford has somewhat similar size (about an inch shorter) and very good footwork. His arm strength and touch i think is as good as Elway's but he's not the finished product. I think he too can be great but not ready to predict a trip to Canton.

jnew76
03-13-2009, 11:29 AM
before you hire a sculptor for the statue in Canton, I think you might note Elway had a better arm, better mobility, and quicker release. I really like Stafford, but you have to remember the prospect Elway was. There is a reason Elway was drafted #1 in the greatest QB class of all time. Before Kelly and Marino.

Chief49er
03-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Well, John Elway is a NFL legend and Stafford is some scrub that has to prove anything before this talk can even begin. It is hard for me to look at the "before" picture of John Elway because of history.

Maybe some draft nuts from years back can.

Babylon
03-13-2009, 11:38 AM
Well, John Elway is a NFL legend and Stafford is some scrub that has to prove anything before this talk can even begin. It is hard for me to look at the "before" picture of John Elway because of history.

Maybe some draft nuts from years back can.


I think the original topic was the better skillset out of college. Elway is the better prospect but Stafford doesnt take a back seat to anyone in the arm department.

Shane P. Hallam
03-13-2009, 11:39 AM
I think the original topic was the better skillset out of college. Elway is the better prospect but Stafford doesnt take a back seat to anyone in the arm department.

Exactly was going to be my point, it was coming out of college. Yes, Elway was a better prospect, but Stafford definitely has some similar tools and he could develop into an Elway type of QB.

bitonti
03-13-2009, 11:46 AM
yeh John Elway was good. Stafford, who knows?

d34ng3l021
03-13-2009, 12:31 PM
I wasn't there personally at draft time, but from what I hear, John Elway was one of, if not, the best QB prospect of all time.

Stafford and Elway (and Cutler) share similar skill sets though. In terms of prospects though, I would rank them as: Elway >> Stafford > Cutler (I wasn't as high on Cutler as everyone else was during draft time).

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 12:34 PM
Definitely John Elway. His arm was absolutely insane, even more so than Stafford's, and he was much more dangerous when running with the ball. Also, I always thought Matthew Stafford looked like Phil Mickelson.

Agreed, on all counts, especially Mickelson...

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Exactly was going to be my point, it was coming out of college. Yes, Elway was a better prospect, but Stafford definitely has some similar tools and he could develop into an Elway type of QB.

I agree that both Elway and Stafford are similar as prospects. Its just Elway had just a little bit more of everything than it seems Stafford does. (I can't tell from personal experience, going off of what I've heard of Elway as a prospect, so take that for what its worth.) I do think Stafford can be an Elway type QB, so I agree JBond.

Mr.Regular
03-13-2009, 12:51 PM
Stafford is a great, maybe even an elite QB prospect.
Elway was one of the best, if not the best ever QB prospect.

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 12:53 PM
I wasn't there personally at draft time, but from what I hear, John Elway was one of, if not, the best QB prospect of all time.

Stafford and Elway (and Cutler) share similar skill sets though. In terms of prospects though, I would rank them as: Elway >> Stafford > Cutler (I wasn't as high on Cutler as everyone else was during draft time).

Yup, John Elway, Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer were the best QB prospects of the last 25 years no doubt. All 3 have 100's across the board in terms of grade outs.

Shane P. Hallam
03-13-2009, 12:58 PM
Yup, John Elway, Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer were the best QB prospects of the last 25 years no doubt. All 3 have 100's across the board in terms of grade outs.

I wouldn't put Palmer up there as a prospect, but your mancrush is well known. But that is not what this thread is about!

Does Stafford succeed, even if he ends up with Detroit?

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 01:04 PM
I wouldn't put Palmer up there as a prospect, but your mancrush is well known. But that is not what this thread is about!

Does Stafford succeed, even if he ends up with Detroit?

Since QB success is dependant on so many outside factors, it is hard to tell. But he already has a great young option to throw to, a solid young RB. If they can solidify the O-line and have a decent D in Detroit (alliteration FTW), he will have a great chance to succeed. If he has a majority of those factors he also can succeed. But if The Lions continue to be mishandled, it will be very difficult for him to be considered a great success, since Detroit will most likely flounder if those things aren't handled properly...

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 01:07 PM
I wouldn't put Palmer up there as a prospect, but your mancrush is well known. But that is not what this thread is about!

Does Stafford succeed, even if he ends up with Detroit?

Palmer was and is up there. 100 across the board when he was coming out. Not one flaw other then a mediocre junior year, and once he put everything together like he did in his senior year there was no question who was going to be the #1 overall pick.


As for Stafford, he only excels in Detroit if he sits for entire year, I know that will piss off the fans, but they'll get over it when he comes out smoking in 2010. They can't sacrifice him to the wolves and then wonder why his confidence starts to fade. They don't have the building blocks to makehim successful during his first year. The Bengals did it right when they brought in Palmer, they sat him then he came out in his second year on fire. The samething needs to be done with Stafford.

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 01:13 PM
Agreed MP he needs at least a few more pieces to the puzzle before Detroit would ruin a potentially great career by taking away confidence...

MarioPalmer
03-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Agreed MP he needs at least a few more pieces to the puzzle before Detroit would ruin a potentially great career by taking away confidence...

Yeah, you can't stick him out there and say "here you go kid, you wanted it, now you got it, welcome to the NFL." And have the Bears and Vikes killing him.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Arm strength is roughly equal,( Stafford's got a cannon too), but Elway is on a different planet as a runner.

IMO, Stafford will never come close to the career Elway had. It's yet to be seen, but I would be surprised if Stafford had special game-winning qualities that Elway displayed as a pro.

I can't imagine Stafford is a guy who could carry his team's offense on his back for years without a consistent running game or elite receivers.

IndyColtScout
03-13-2009, 01:42 PM
It's no where close.

Stafford has a real good arm and the ability to move in the pocket and get out like Elway.

After that the comparison stops.

Elway kills Stafford in everything else, and IMO Stafford won't even come close to touching him in his pro career.

PACKmanN
03-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Stafford=Favre.

IndyColtScout
03-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Stafford=Favre.

Not a chance.

Stafford won't even sniff Elway or Favre's success.

Halsey
03-13-2009, 02:02 PM
In terms of physical talent everyone is going to say Elway. Not because Elway necessarily was more physically talented, but because people wil more often than not side with the proven HoFer. I doubt anyone really knows who has more physical talent because we can't compare a 20 year old Elway vs a 20 year old Stafford. In the end neither has questions about physical talent and trying to pretend we can really compare them is not realistic.

d34ng3l021
03-13-2009, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't put Palmer up there as a prospect, but your mancrush is well known. But that is not what this thread is about!

Does Stafford succeed, even if he ends up with Detroit?

Yes. As much as the surrounding cast plays an important role in the development and overall success of a QB, the actual prowess of a QB can completely change an offense.

The Falcons offense was anemic in nearly all accounts in 2007. The offensive line couldn't open up holes for the RB, gave up 47 sacks, and the receivers outside of Roddy White failed to step up. The passing offense was just horrid and had to rely on 2-3 yard outs with Harrington playing. I know that the addition of Michael Turner helped renovate the Falcons rush offense to what it is, but how about the passing game? While Turner's ability did open up chances for passing, Matt Ryan's pocket presence and accuracy changed so much for the passing game. The offensive line from 2007 gave up 47 sacks. The changes made to the offensive line were minimal while the Falcons changed from veteran RG to a UDFA who had started 5 games previous and changed from a veteran RT to a UDFA who had was a RG originally. Nothing overly impressive. Ryan's ability to detect the pass rush was the major reason the pass protection improved so much. It was also his accuracy and development of chemistry with WR Michael Jenkins that helped him remove his bust label.

Now this all may seem unrelated, but I do think that Matthew Stafford is the type of QB that can change everything about a borderline decent offense. His pocket presence and accuracy may not be as good as Ryan's, but his toughness and ability to make every throw will do wonders for the Lions offense, even if they don't change anything else (which i dont recommend). This change may not happen immediately and might require Stafford on the bench for his first 8-10 games, but I do think that it will eventually happen, which is what the Lions are probably banking on.

yourfavestoner
03-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Yup, John Elway, Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer were the best QB prospects of the last 25 years no doubt. All 3 have 100's across the board in terms of grade outs.

I'm trying to see these grades.

the decider13
03-13-2009, 04:54 PM
See...I think that Stafford<Cutler, but it is MUCH closer than Elway to Stafford. I think there would be more to argue about Cutler and Stafford as prospects than trying to compare one of the best prospects to Stafford.

Does this mean we should start the "Crabtree>Fitz", "Wells>LT", "Jenkins>Woodson" threads.

wow

Halsey
03-13-2009, 04:59 PM
The question of the thread was who was more physically talented between Stafford and Elway. Not who the better prospect is/was or whatever else. Physical talent is only one part of prospect rating.

yourfavestoner
03-13-2009, 05:17 PM
The question of the thread was who was more physically talented between Stafford and Elway. Not who the better prospect is/was or whatever else. Physical talent is only one part of prospect rating.

That's still not even a question. Elway by a mile.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-13-2009, 05:20 PM
I've certainly caught way more of Stafford at Georgia than I caught of Elway at Stanford. However, I have always taken interest in watching some of the great NFL quarterbacks in their college careers and Elway's days at Palo Alto is something I have caught a decent chunk of.

As prospects, Elway is head and shoulders above Stafford. There are definite similarities, but Elway was something special. Honestly, if I had to compare Elway to any recent quarterback prospect, it would be some strange amalgam of JaMarcus Russell (arm strength, short range accuracy, and throwing on the run) and Matt Ryan (vision at all three levels of the field, smart risk taking). He was stunning at Stanford.

I like Stafford, but despite his similarities to Elway, he's nowhere near the caliber of prospect, in my opinion.

Saints-Tigers
03-13-2009, 05:46 PM
I don't see how Manning, Elway and Palmer can all have 100's across the board, even if you compare them just to each other. For instance, how can Manning have a 100 for arm strength if Elway does? How can Palmer be 100 at reading defenses when he isn't close to Peyton?

Palmer wasn't nearly the lock Elway was, and really, from what I remember, neither was Peyton, with Leaf nipping at his heels. I wasn't born for Elway, but I don't think there was any doubt from any team that he was going first, and I'm not even a fan of his at all.

rascal
03-13-2009, 06:28 PM
Stafford reminds me of John Elway so much, from his arm strength, release, size. Hell, he even looks like John Elway. That said, who has or had the greater physical tools coming out of college. John Elway from Stanford or Matthew "John" Stafford from Georgia? Lets get opinions and feedback please.

Wow...are you serious?

Elway was perhaps one of the greatest QBs of all time (college or pro).

dregolll
03-13-2009, 08:28 PM
Well, for him to be the greatest college QB of all-time, his football team surely sucked because he never went to a bowl game in his career.

TACKLE
03-13-2009, 08:36 PM
The very fact that this thread has gone on for two pages is just silly. Stafford is not even a consensus Top 5 player in the draft. How can you compare him to arguably the greatest QB prospect ever?

the decider13
03-13-2009, 08:38 PM
Well, for him to be the greatest college QB of all-time, his football team surely sucked because he never went to a bowl game in his career.


Yes winning definately=how good the player is. Larry Fitzgerald only became good this year, Andre Johnson is aweful, Nmadi Asomougha is absolutely terrible, and Calvin Johnson is the worst WR in the NFL.

Halsey
03-13-2009, 09:34 PM
That's still not even a question. Elway by a mile.

You say that, but you can't back up your argument. You're just doing like most people do and siding with the proven HoF player without really giving it any thought. The fact that Elway was a HoF QB and Super Bowl winner does not automatically make him more physically talented.

San Diego Chicken
03-14-2009, 05:16 PM
It's not a good comparison because Elway was a dual threat QB with excellent speed. He was a fantastic all-around athlete. Even his body type was ideal - he was really well put together, chiseled body. I always noticed when I was younger how big and strong his legs were for a QB. Athletically, Vick and Elway are the two best ever at the position.