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kf213003
03-13-2009, 12:16 PM
40 yd dash = 4.39 first attempt
4.38 second attempt

Being that it is a Pro Day, it should be noted that they are on a fast track.

However, as a point of reference: Brian Hartline, Brian Robiskie, & Malcolm Jenkins were ALL in the 4.49 to 4.54 range.

I'm going to venture to say that Beanie's 40 time might be somewhere between his pro day and his combine times.......maybe a 4.5 flat. You watch his game film and he certainly plays a hell of a lot faster than 4.55, since he continually ran away from DB's on numerous long runs in games (including the secondary of LSU in the 2007 National Title game).


Not using his 40 as a point to validate his talent, but honestly Ive watched a lot of both Beanie and Knowshon. It is absolutely ludacris to me that ANYONE thinks Moreno is better than Beanie. Moreno is a GREAT back, but Beanie absolutely defined the term "Dominant" in every single way. Beanie played at a high level against all competition (you can make a point that he played at a higher level in bigger games) and he played on an offense that was one dimensional and centered around his talent (not to mention his O-line had a really sub-par year in 2008). I wouldn't falt a team for picking Moreno over Beanie due to there being injury concerns, but to say that Moreno is actually a better back is just plain crazy to me. I guarantee that if Beanie stays healthy he will be a perenial pro bowler and one of the true gems of this draft.

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Moreno is an all around better back than Beanie, and I am a big fan of both of them. Moreno is a threat in the passing game, where there hasn't been much proof that Beanie can do that. I think both are going to be valuable assets in the running game. It all depends on what your offense wants out of its RB. If your in an offense where the RB is required to go out and make plays through the air, you'd want Moreno. If you want a RB who is reliable (not saying Moreno isn't) and will pound away at the will of defenses, you'd want Wells. Wells is also more balanced than people give him credit for while he runs, he isn't just a thumper. Honestly I can't tell you which one I think is better, but I think Moreno would be a better fit for my Eagles;)...

kf213003
03-13-2009, 12:33 PM
Moreno is an all around better back than Beanie, and I am a big fan of both of them. Moreno is a threat in the passing game, where there hasn't been much proof that Beanie can do that. I think both are going to be valuable assets in the running game. It all depends on what your offense wants out of its RB. If your in an offense where the RB is required to go out and make plays through the air, you'd want Moreno. If you want a RB who is reliable (not saying Moreno isn't) and will pound away at the will of defenses, you'd want Wells. Wells is also more balanced than people give him credit for while he runs, he isn't just a thumper. Honestly I can't tell you which one I think is better, but I think Moreno would be a better fit for my Eagles;)...

I can respect that. All very good points and for the most part I would have to agree. However, I will say that the offense that Beanie ran out of was very vanilla and he was never really given the opportunity to be a threat in the passing game. Although, im sure that even if he was given the opportunity, Moreno still would definitely have the edge for that facet of the game. IMO though, when I think of a RUNNING back in the NFL...most of the damage is done on the ground and that is where Beanie is far and away the better back. He is going to do some serious damage on the ground when he gets into the league.

kf213003
03-13-2009, 12:35 PM
On the flip side, being that your an Eagles fan, I could definitely see Moreno possibly being a better option for YOUR offense seeing how Westbrook is used.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Well if you want to flat our replace Westbrook on the Eagles then Moreno is your guy, but if you want a big back to have what they have been missing all these years (they lost to NYG because they couldn't convert 3rd and 1s and 4th and 1s) then Beanie would be better. It's a lot easier to find a decent all purpose back than it is to find a guy with Wells' skillset though.

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 12:45 PM
I like them both a lot and think they could be great second options until it is their time to take over. I think both will be very successful NFL RBs. I just think Moreno would fit the WCO a little better than Wells. And I know Wells wasn't given many opportunities because of OSU, I wish he would have been given more opportunities in the passing game while he wwas there. I don't think he even has 20 receptions, maybe less actually. Moreno had more receptions in each year as a starter IIRC. I think if Wells practices it and just gets enough reps, helping him to become a better receiver he could be a threat in the passing game as well, just not like I expect Moreno to be. Personally, I would love to have either on the Eagles. The thing that will determine who gets drafted first is which team runs a certain style of offense that decides they need a RB first. I think both will be great pro RBs, just in different systems, used differently, in some aspects...

Babylon
03-13-2009, 01:15 PM
40 yd dash = 4.39 first attempt
4.38 second attempt

Being that it is a Pro Day, it should be noted that they are on a fast track.

However, as a point of reference: Brian Hartline, Brian Robiskie, & Malcolm Jenkins were ALL in the 4.49 to 4.54 range.

I'm going to venture to say that Beanie's 40 time might be somewhere between his pro day and his combine times.......maybe a 4.5 flat. You watch his game film and he certainly plays a hell of a lot faster than 4.55, since he continually ran away from DB's on numerous long runs in games (including the secondary of LSU in the 2007 National Title game).


Not using his 40 as a point to validate his talent, but honestly Ive watched a lot of both Beanie and Knowshon. It is absolutely ludacris to me that ANYONE thinks Moreno is better than Beanie. Moreno is a GREAT back, but Beanie absolutely defined the term "Dominant" in every single way. Beanie played at a high level against all competition (you can make a point that he played at a higher level in bigger games) and he played on an offense that was one dimensional and centered around his talent (not to mention his O-line had a really sub-par year in 2008). I wouldn't falt a team for picking Moreno over Beanie due to there being injury concerns, but to say that Moreno is actually a better back is just plain crazy to me. I guarantee that if Beanie stays healthy he will be a perenial pro bowler and one of the true gems of this draft.


Did they let Wells run 30 yards instead of 40? I'm not buying 4.3 whatever, period.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Yeah, something fishy about that 40 for Beanie.

When healthy, Wells has the stuff to be a dominant RB, with more than enough speed, but I never saw any indication that he had game speed equal to Adrian Peterson.

Still an elite prospect and should be the 1st RB selected, but that 40 time is funky.

Babylon
03-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Yeah, something fishy about that 40 for Beanie.

When healthy, Wells has the stuff to be a dominant RB, with more than enough speed, but I never saw any indication that he had game speed equal to Adrian Peterson.

Still an elite prospect and should be the 1st RB selected, but that 40 time is funky.

They probably told the guy with the stopwatch to count to three before he started timing him.

Flippityskip91
03-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Did they let Wells run 30 yards instead of 40? I'm not buying 4.3 whatever, period.

Why not? Have you never seen him play? Or were you convinced by his 4.59 at the combine after half a dozen broad jumps? It's a fast track anyways, always has been. He's likely in the 4.47-4.50 range.

Race for the Heisman
03-13-2009, 01:26 PM
Just to point out, Beanie got pretty much shut down against Penn State, so he hasn't always played at a high level against all competition. Knowshon had some games where he was sub 4.0 YPC, but nothing like Beanie's 2.5 for that game, especially given the amount of carries he was given that game.

bored of education
03-13-2009, 01:27 PM
beanies game against Michigan a few years ago > life.

Scott hinted that beanie might run sub 4.4 in one of his chats.

I KNOW IT ALL
03-13-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't think either Moreno or Wells has homerun speed which is why I both think they fall to the last 1st. It's hard to justify taking a back in the first 15 or even 20 picks that doesn't have that breakaway speed to threaten defences with.

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 01:31 PM
beanies game against Michigan a few years ago > life.

Scott hinted that beanie might run sub 4.4 in one of his chats.

That game almost ended Sniper's life, haha

bored of education
03-13-2009, 01:33 PM
That game almost ended Sniper's life, haha

...I could have typed something very bad. but i will behave!

roscoesdad27
03-13-2009, 01:37 PM
with the jags siging tra thomas i could see them taking beanie with the #8 pick depending how the board fell....he would be a great compliment to mjd and it wont be long before mjd was actually the compliment to beanie.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 01:39 PM
Just to point out, Beanie got pretty much shut down against Penn State, so he hasn't always played at a high level against all competition. Knowshon had some games where he was sub 4.0 YPC, but nothing like Beanie's 2.5 for that game, especially given the amount of carries he was given that game.

penn state pretty much dominated our offensive line that game. Beanie, Boom and Pryor got nothing on the ground. They were successful at forcing us to pass (gave up 250+ yards to Pryor passing says something). I think the monster games against the likes of LSU and MIchigan and everyone else makes up for that.

I think if the Ohio State pro day was on the same turf as the combine in Indy that today Beanie would've run better than he did then. Probably not 4.38, but I could see 4.5 or maybe a little better. Like Flippity pointed out he didn't have to do like 6 broad jumps before his 40 today and he's had a few weeks to adjust his technique, probably knows how to start his 40 better by now.

roscoesdad27
03-13-2009, 01:40 PM
I don't think either Moreno or Wells has homerun speed which is why I both think they fall to the last 1st. It's hard to justify taking a back in the first 15 or even 20 picks that doesn't have that breakaway speed to threaten defences with.

thats what i was thinking before i seen the 4.39/4.38 40 times he posted today...its hard to tell if beans is a sub 4.4. guy on film because of the "slow big 10 defense" thing that you always have to consider but todays 40 time answered that question and i could see him back in the top 10 now.

IndyColtScout
03-13-2009, 01:40 PM
I like Beanie and I think he will be another Steven Jackson type RB.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 01:41 PM
thats what i was thinking before i seen the 4.39/4.38 40 times he posted today...its hard to tell if beans is a sub 4.4. guy on film because of the "slow big 10 defense" thing that you always have to consider but todays 40 time answered that question and i could see him back in the top 10 now.

like when he totally torched the Louisiana State unit in the biggest game of the year. SEC speeeeedddzzz

roscoesdad27
03-13-2009, 01:51 PM
like when he totally torched the Louisiana State unit in the biggest game of the year. SEC speeeeedddzzz

the 40 time today answered my concern...he will be moving up in my next mock possibly to the jags.

Sniper
03-13-2009, 01:55 PM
That game almost ended Sniper's life, haha

Ugh....thanks dude. I'm so happy he's gone. He absolutely killed Michigan every damn year.

BrownsTown
03-13-2009, 01:57 PM
I like Beanie and I think he will be another Steven Jackson type RB.

I very much doubt this. Steven Jackson is one of the best pass catching RBs in the NFL. I think the best comparison for Beanie at the moment is Jamal Lewis. Not the current career-winding-down version, mind you.

I can buy 4.39 on a fast track. His game speed is actually fairly good, I wouldn't give him credit for anything above, say, 4.45, but no one expects him to be a speed back anyway.

Babylon
03-13-2009, 02:03 PM
Why not? Have you never seen him play? Or were you convinced by his 4.59 at the combine after half a dozen broad jumps? It's a fast track anyways, always has been. He's likely in the 4.47-4.50 range.


I've seen him play plenty. Nothing is impossible but one he doesnt play that fast and two he ran much slower at the combine. If somehow all the stars alligned and he did run that time then grade everyone else from the combine on the same curve.

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Ugh....thanks dude. I'm so happy he's gone. He absolutely killed Michigan every damn year.

Now you know what it was like having to deal with Mike Hart! Who I also, coincidentally, really like.

rockio42
03-13-2009, 02:12 PM
Well if you want to flat our replace Westbrook on the Eagles then Moreno is your guy, but if you want a big back to have what they have been missing all these years (they lost to NYG because they couldn't convert 3rd and 1s and 4th and 1s) then Beanie would be better. It's a lot easier to find a decent all purpose back than it is to find a guy with Wells' skillset though.

Well if they do sign Leonard Weaver then if they draft a RB in the 1st its going to be McCoy or Moreno...

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-13-2009, 02:16 PM
those are two impressive times. I was a bit surprised at his combine time, and honestly expected a 4.6 or so, and now i'm even more surprised at a 4.39....that is a huge discrepency, and both times at both events were pretty similar. I'm more perplexed than anything....certainly good for him though.

thetedginnshow
03-13-2009, 02:22 PM
I will say that at the combine it looked like he ran faster than what the time indicated, but that's just me. Very good on his part though. How'd him, Robiskie, Jenkins, and The Boeckman do with the rest? I wonder if I could have gone to watch the pro day. Probably not. I'm guessing they didn't do it in the stadium.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 02:26 PM
nah, it was in the WHAC as usual. They usually put a rubber surface down to run on I think . Scouts are said to usually add .15 seconds to all our 40 times b/c of our notoriously fast track, but that theory is inconsistent since some guys usually run slower than at the combine or just barely better, while some run a lot better.

Cicero
03-13-2009, 02:35 PM
Ohio State puts down the rubber bits for their pro days which improves 40 times.

bored of education
03-13-2009, 02:36 PM
Ohio State puts down the rubber bits for their pro days which improves 40 times.

thanks pal, we got that covered.

ThePudge
03-13-2009, 02:41 PM
Did they let Wells run 30 yards instead of 40? I'm not buying 4.3 whatever, period.

When he ran a 4.59 at the Combine, people were shocked. They weren't shocked because that's a bad time for a guy as big as he is, they were shocked because he plays fast and most expected a sub 4.5 or something in that area. Trust me when I say this, the man plays with plenty of speed. You get the feeling he takes more pride in his speed than his power at times.

Those who don't watch him play look at his size, then his 40 time at the Combine and label him a power back. He had four games this year in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Wisconsin, Michigan, Northwestern, Youngstown) and broke a 24 yard+ run in all but one game (the Penn State game.) He also had four games in 2007 in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Michigan, LSU, Michigan State, Akron) When he gets into a rhythm, he can be flat out unstoppable. Michigan knows this (sorry Sniper), Wisconsin knows this, LSU found it out quick. It's not like Beanie padded his stats against bottom-level competition.

I will say what I have said before. Doubt his passion for the game, doubt his durability, question why he bounces runs outside at 235 pounds, but don't ever doubt the man's god-given talent. That is the area Knowshon can't touch Beanie in. I love the way Moreno plays, he's a bit more of a scrapper, he has good vision between the tackles, he'll finish every run, he's a willing blocker and is experienced catching the ball out of the backfield. However, after being exposed to two years of Wells starting and Moreno starting, I have never seen Knowshon dominate like Wells has and I've watched Knowshon play great. When Beanie wants it, he'll take it, he won't go down and the second he sees daylight you see his second gear. I always hated the inconsistency of his effort, not of his play. Moreno's effort doesn't turn off but he has to work harder.

A year ago Beanie was a Top 3 talent. Now he's a mid-late First Round Pick, ridiculous. Lets look at the averages per start (or game with over ten carries) from the past two seasons...

2007: 22.5 car 132.7 yds 5.9 ypc 1.2 Td
2008: 20.7 car 119.7 yds 5.8 ypc 0.8 Td

The slight carry-yard-touchdown deficit, the only real noticeable difference, was due to the emergence of Terrelle Pryor as a runner and young Dan Herron, the two of them combined for 12 Td's. Pryor had 10.9 carries per game in the ten games Wells was healthy, and all six of his rushing Td's were with Beanie in the lineup. As for Herron, five out of six of his Td's also came with a healthy Wells. The year before, the rest of the team combined for six rushing Td's. Different roles for Wells due to Herron and Pryor.

What I am trying to say, to those who thought there was a decline in his play his Junior season, you are incorrect, or rather, misinformed. Big Ten teams will be happy to see Malcolm Jenkins go, they'll be happy to get rid of Laurinaitis and Freeman, to see Robiskie depart, but I have to think the happiest they got was when Wells declared for the draft. I love Malcolm, but Ohio State's best prospect remains Chris "Beanie" Wells, who is right in line, talent-wise, with Darren McFadden, etc.

As for his hands and blocking, he is raw. I've never heard anyone say Wells has poor hands or can't block, he simply has not been asked to do those things often at all. Adrian Peterson also cited this as one of his regrets in college as no one knew if or how well he could catch the football. Sure he'd probably work best with a complimentary 3rd Down back, but that goes for nearly anyone in the NFL. To say he can only be a two-down back is ignorant seeing as he simply was not asked to do these things much at Ohio State. I am not saying this as a positive, I am simply trying to clear it up as not a serious downfall of his game, it is a question mark at the worst.

Don't try to call Ohio State bias here on me, once the college year fades and I am talking draft there is no room for personal vendettas or pure bias. I take my analysis of the draft more seriously than my college football loyalty this time of year. I will support reasonable arguments against James Laurinaitis, as I think he is more of an Early 2nd-Early 3rd Round prospect, I am not as high on Brian Robiskie as some here are, I think due to his pre-draft workouts he will be over-drafted. He was a 3rd-4th Round type player in college that was underused this past year, he should likely go in the Mid 2nd-Early 3rd. Still, there are those who say he is a Late 1st Round guy and I just cannot put him there with Nicks and Britt. I think he is safely the #7 WR prospect in this draft.

Still, Wells is the #1 Running Back talent in this draft, bar-none and I think a lot of people here simply don't know enough about him, haven't watched him all too much, and simply get the wrong impressions from things they read.

kf213003
03-13-2009, 02:51 PM
GREAT post Pudge!!! From someone who watches not only A LOT of OSU football, but college football, I agree with everything that you had to say. There was no bias whatsoever. People need to pay attention to what you wrote there. Good stuff!

On a side note, I also think the only prospects worth their first round grade are Beanie and Malcolm.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 02:56 PM
well in Ohio State's offense there is little to no passes to the running back or play action so that doesn't help. Hard to tell how good a pass blocker or catcher he is when he's given almost no chance. A rare screen play to Beanie in the Fiesta bowl against Texas worked out very well and it is obvious that taking the ball and turning up field on a screen comes natural to him. Antonio Pittman had similar ?s coming out because the offense limited him to being basically just a runner as well.

If nothing else Wells should be a top 20 pick because of the stiffarm....best I've ever seen in the college game.

thetedginnshow
03-13-2009, 03:01 PM
f718Ei0TAck

Babylon
03-13-2009, 03:02 PM
When he ran a 4.59 at the Combine, people were shocked. They weren't shocked because that's a bad time for a guy as big as he is, they were shocked because he plays fast and most expected a sub 4.5 or something in that area. Trust me when I say this, the man plays with plenty of speed. You get the feeling he takes more pride in his speed than his power at times.

Those who don't watch him play look at his size, then his 40 time at the Combine and label him a power back. He had four games this year in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Wisconsin, Michigan, Northwestern, Youngstown) and broke a 24 yard+ run in all but one game (the Penn State game.) He also had four games in 2007 in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Michigan, LSU, Michigan State, Akron) When he gets into a rhythm, he can be flat out unstoppable. Michigan knows this (sorry Sniper), Wisconsin knows this, LSU found it out quick. It's not like Beanie padded his stats against bottom-level competition.

I will say what I have said before. Doubt his passion for the game, doubt his durability, question why he bounces runs outside at 235 pounds, but don't ever doubt the man's god-given talent. That is the area Knowshon can't touch Beanie in. I love the way Moreno plays, he's a bit more of a scrapper, he has good vision between the tackles, he'll finish every run, he's a willing blocker and is experienced catching the ball out of the backfield. However, after being exposed to two years of Wells starting and Moreno starting, I have never seen Knowshon dominate like Wells has and I've watched Knowshon play great. When Beanie wants it, he'll take it, he won't go down and the second he sees daylight you see his second gear. I always hated the inconsistency of his effort, not of his play. Moreno's effort doesn't turn off but he has to work harder.

A year ago Beanie was a Top 3 talent. Now he's a mid-late First Round Pick, ridiculous. Lets look at the averages per start (or game with over ten carries) from the past two seasons...

2007: 22.5 car 132.7 yds 5.9 ypc 1.2 Td
2008: 20.7 car 119.7 yds 5.8 ypc 0.8 Td

The slight carry-yard-touchdown deficit, the only real noticeable difference, was due to the emergence of Terrelle Pryor as a runner and young Dan Herron, the two of them combined for 12 Td's. Pryor had 10.9 carries per game in the ten games Wells was healthy, and all six of his rushing Td's were with Beanie in the lineup. As for Herron, five out of six of his Td's also came with a healthy Wells. The year before, the rest of the team combined for six rushing Td's. Different roles for Wells due to Herron and Pryor.

What I am trying to say, to those who thought there was a decline in his play his Junior season, you are incorrect, or rather, misinformed. Big Ten teams will be happy to see Malcolm Jenkins go, they'll be happy to get rid of Laurinaitis and Freeman, to see Robiskie depart, but I have to think the happiest they got was when Wells declared for the draft. I love Malcolm, but Ohio State's best prospect remains Chris "Beanie" Wells, who is right in line, talent-wise, with Darren McFadden, etc.

As for his hands and blocking, he is raw. I've never heard anyone say Wells has poor hands or can't block, he simply has not been asked to do those things often at all. Adrian Peterson also cited this as one of his regrets in college as no one knew if or how well he could catch the football. Sure he'd probably work best with a complimentary 3rd Down back, but that goes for nearly anyone in the NFL. To say he can only be a two-down back is ignorant seeing as he simply was not asked to do these things much at Ohio State. I am not saying this as a positive, I am simply trying to clear it up as not a serious downfall of his game, it is a question mark at the worst.

Don't try to call Ohio State bias here on me, once the college year fades and I am talking draft there is no room for personal vendettas or pure bias. I take my analysis of the draft more seriously than my college football loyalty this time of year. I will support arguments against James Laurinaitis, as I think he is more of an Early 2nd-Early 3rd Round prospect, I am not as high on Brian Robiskie as some here are, I think due to his pre-draft workouts he will be over-drafted. He was a 3rd-4th Round type player in college that was underused this past year, he should likely go in the Mid 2nd-Early 3rd. Still, there are those who say he is a Late 1st Round guy and I just cannot put him there with Nicks and Britt. I think he is safely the #7 WR prospect in this draft.


The OT was his pro day not a scouting report on the guy. I think he's a quality back but i'll question that 40 time. You dont go from 4.6 at the combine to sub 4.4, it's too fishy to me.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-13-2009, 03:05 PM
Not to imply they are in any way similar, but Ron Dayne had his share of 20+ and 40+ runs in the Big Ten too. He was a 4.52-4.53 RB coming out of Wisconsin, but couldn't figure out the pro game.

I will say this, all the times at Indy were unfairly slow, for whatever reason.

Michigan
03-13-2009, 03:07 PM
I don't think either Moreno or Wells has homerun speed which is why I both think they fall to the last 1st.

Wells can hit home runs. :(

52 yard run against Michigan :(
t6x7Vax2RMA

62 yard run against... Michigan :(
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59 yard run against :( :( :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOBU-XR8Oas

thetedginnshow
03-13-2009, 03:10 PM
Those who don't watch him play look at his size, then his 40 time at the Combine and label him a power back. He had four games this year in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Wisconsin, Michigan, Northwestern, Youngstown) and broke a 24 yard+ run in all but one game (the Penn State game.) He also had four games in 2007 in which he broke 40 yard+ runs (Michigan, LSU, Michigan State, Akron) When he gets into a rhythm, he can be flat out unstoppable. Michigan knows this (sorry Sniper), Wisconsin knows this, LSU found it out quick. It's not like Beanie padded his stats against bottom-level competition.

I will say what I have said before. Doubt his passion for the game, doubt his durability, question why he bounces runs outside at 235 pounds, but don't ever doubt the man's god-given talent. That is the area Knowshon can't touch Beanie in. I love the way Moreno plays, he's a bit more of a scrapper, he has good vision between the tackles, he'll finish every run, he's a willing blocker and is experienced catching the ball out of the backfield. However, after being exposed to two years of Wells starting and Moreno starting, I have never seen Knowshon dominate like Wells has and I've watched Knowshon play great. When Beanie wants it, he'll take it, he won't go down and the second he sees daylight you see his second gear. I always hated the inconsistency of his effort, not of his play. Moreno's effort doesn't turn off but he has to work harder.

Those are a little inconsistent. Just because he's 235 lbs. he has to run it up the gut every time? He's a supremely talented back and he shouldn't be pigeon-holed into being a North-South runner just because he's great at it. As evidenced by his play in games, he has breakaway speed and does just fine outside. Sweeps and tosses are certainly bad plays for him, but those are on the play calling. Just about every time he busts one outside he gets a whole hell of a lot more yards.

ThePudge
03-13-2009, 03:13 PM
The OT was his pro day not a scouting report on the guy. I think he's a quality back but i'll question that 40 time. You dont go from 4.6 at the combine to sub 4.4, it's too fishy to me.

I may be wrong, I am making an assumption here, but it seems like you are a West-Coast guy. I've seen Ohio State play about twenty-five times the past three years. Not a problem at all if you are a West Coast guy though, and I don't blame you for having doubts there as it's fishy. All I'm saying is try to download a game or two of film if you have that kind of software. If not, you can take a look at some youtube highlights. The man plays with sub 4.5 speed. Pads just don't slow him down. I've seen him shy away from contact and play with less physicality than he should (see the Penn State game where he tried to bounce run after run outside on a very quick, smart defense), I've seen him run a bit hesitantly, but I haven't seen him look sluggish in pads. I have never had to question his speed.

As for reasons... Beanie is a bit lazy, you can question his passion for the game. It is possible that he wasn't in shape or properly prepared for the Combine. I am waiting mostly on his other numbers from his workout today for confirmation there. His vertical will be interesting as Ohio State may have a fast track, but they don't allow trampolines. His shuttles, bench, 3-Cones, and broad jump should also be rather telling of his conditioning. As for the huge difference, OSU has a fast track. He may be a 4.45-4.5 guy, not a 4.35-4.4 guy, but at his size that's still pretty incredible. He plays with that speed too. Drop the 4.59, Drop the 4.38, take something in the middle. A 4.45 would be my guess when figuring out his 40 time. We'll wait though for other info on his day today.

ThePudge
03-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Those are a little inconsistent. Just because he's 235 lbs. he has to run it up the gut every time? He's a supremely talented back and he shouldn't be pigeon-holed into being a North-South runner just because he's great at it. As evidenced by his play in games, he has breakaway speed and does just fine outside. Sweeps and tosses are certainly bad plays for him, but those are on the play calling. Just about every time he busts one outside he gets a whole hell of a lot more yards.

Not exactly inconsistent. I'll explain a bit.

He occasionally trusts his speed, agility, and explosiveness more than he should. When returning from his injury this season, he didn't exactly come back slow, but he came back hesitant. He shied away from contact and bounced inside runs to the outside. I've seen him unwilling to put his nose down and pick up extra yards inside but rather try to make too much happen. He's at his best when he doesn't have to second guess himself. He is explosive up the middle, running a bit high, but showing at times overwhelming power. Then you see him on designed sweeps and tosses out-running opposing defenses, finding cutback lanes, and using his very impressive second gear. That's what I meant by inconsistent effort and passion at times in game. That's all, didn't mean to seem like I contradicted myself.

holt_bruce81
03-13-2009, 03:22 PM
40-times at pro days are always inflated. I would add .10-.15 to that time. And isn't there and official Pro Day thread to avoid individual threads like this? :)

thetedginnshow
03-13-2009, 03:25 PM
Not exactly inconsistent. I'll explain a bit.

He occasionally trusts his speed, agility, and explosiveness more than he should. When returning from his injury this season, he didn't exactly come back slow, but he came back hesitant. He shied away from contact and bounced inside runs to the outside. I've seen him unwilling to put his nose down and pick up extra yards inside but rather try to make too much happen. He's at his best when he doesn't have to second guess himself. He is explosive up the middle, running a bit high, but showing at times overwhelming power. Then you see him on designed sweeps and tosses out-running opposing defenses, finding cutback lanes, and using his very impressive second gear. That's what I meant by inconsistent effort and passion at times in game. That's all, didn't mean to seem like I contradicted myself.

Ah. See, I'd disagree with that. I certainly saw times where he would try and bounce plays to the outside, but I think it's just as easy to chalk it up to him going for a homerun as a quick solution to the inept offense as it would be to say it's because he's hesitant. But on that same note, I saw plenty of times where he would "put his nose down" and run it up the gut.

I'll also say that I rarely saw him find cutback lanes and use a second gear on the tosses and sweeps. That was actually a big issue with the offense that they'd run tosses and stretches with Beanie where he'd only pick up two or three yards, while they'd try to run it up the middle with Herron, Saine, and the great Mo Wells.

Texas Homer
03-13-2009, 03:28 PM
I'm impressed.

I do think it was a fast track.

I in no way think the Texans would take Wells at #15,but I'd have no problem with it if they did.

I think Wells will do great in the NFL.

ThePudge
03-13-2009, 03:36 PM
Ah. See, I'd disagree with that. I certainly saw times where he would try and bounce plays to the outside, but I think it's just as easy to chalk it up to him going for a homerun as a quick solution to the inept offense as it would be to say it's because he's hesitant. But on that same note, I saw plenty of times where he would "put his nose down" and run it up the gut.

I'll also say that I rarely saw him find cutback lanes and use a second gear on the tosses and sweeps. That was actually a big issue with the offense that they'd run tosses and stretches with Beanie where he'd only pick up two or three yards, while they'd try to run it up the middle with Herron, Saine, and the great Mo Wells.

Trust me, I saw what you saw, I agree with you. I have seen him put his nose down and fight for extra yards and I have seen him break big runs to the outside, but he didn't always do that. He, at times, did shy away from contact and trusted in his speed and agility a bit too much for his own good when he could have picked up positive yards right up the gut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfMQdaXWtcg&feature=related
- See the highlights starting at 0:50 and 1:10 for that sweep/toss and cutback that I mentioned in my last post.

Babylon
03-13-2009, 03:55 PM
I may be wrong, I am making an assumption here, but it seems like you are a West-Coast guy. I've seen Ohio State play about twenty-five times the past three years. Not a problem at all if you are a West Coast guy though, and I don't blame you for having doubts there as it's fishy. All I'm saying is try to download a game or two of film if you have that kind of software. If not, you can take a look at some youtube highlights. The man plays with sub 4.5 speed. Pads just don't slow him down. I've seen him shy away from contact and play with less physicality than he should (see the Penn State game where he tried to bounce run after run outside on a very quick, smart defense), I've seen him run a bit hesitantly, but I haven't seen him look sluggish in pads. I have never had to question his speed.

As for reasons... Beanie is a bit lazy, you can question his passion for the game. It is possible that he wasn't in shape or properly prepared for the Combine. I am waiting mostly on his other numbers from his workout today for confirmation there. His vertical will be interesting as Ohio State may have a fast track, but they don't allow trampolines. His shuttles, bench, 3-Cones, and broad jump should also be rather telling of his conditioning. As for the huge difference, OSU has a fast track. He may be a 4.45-4.5 guy, not a 4.35-4.4 guy, but at his size that's still pretty incredible. He plays with that speed too. Drop the 4.59, Drop the 4.38, take something in the middle. A 4.45 would be my guess when figuring out his 40 time. We'll wait though for other info on his day today.


Some around here (Seattle) dont consider this the west coast but i guess it's close enough. I dont doubt his talent just not buying the 4.39 as being legit. I think you had if about right at 4.45-4.5 with the emphasis on the 4.5

yourfavestoner
03-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Beanie = Jamal Lewis

I've stated numerous times that I think Beanie Wells in an excellent prospect and will be a much better pro than college player. He's got a lot of untapped potential.

Sure, he's no Adrian Peterson, but who is? AD was one of the best runningback prospects ever. It's almost unfair to compare other top runingbacks to him. Personally, I think Beanie is on the same level as a prospect as Darren McFadden. He's just a different type of back.

Rebelrouser
03-13-2009, 04:38 PM
One of the only problems I have with him is it looks like he is walking around on toothpicks. Some scrawny legs he has, and the Big ten competition.

I may be wrong on the scrawny legs but I remember watching him at the combine and thinking to myself that even Jerious Norwood had bigger legs.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 04:39 PM
he has a weird lower body. His thighs are thick and his ankles are really thin. Lower body strength isn't a problem though like it is for guys like Darren McFadden.

Seasonticketholder
03-13-2009, 05:16 PM
If Malcolm Jenkins is off the board, the Saints will gladly welcome Chris Wells into the fold to pair with Reggie Bush.

Ohio State puts down the rubber bits for their pro days which improves 40 times.

Hmm, then why did it not drammatically improve the time of the other players?

The OT was his pro day not a scouting report on the guy. I think he's a quality back but i'll question that 40 time. You dont go from 4.6 at the combine to sub 4.4, it's too fishy to me.

Not fishy at all. The guy is a legit 4.4. He probably ran the best times he's capable of running today (great for him since it will likely earn him some money) and, on average, is more of a 4.4 to 4.45 guy. Still, the guy is not slow. The thing is, when you watched him run at the combine, he used poor technique. He was pulling and all over the place. He had a poor start, his strides were too long, he ran with his arms crossing one-over-the-other and pulled up early. My wife is a former college track standout and soon as she saw him running, she said that he was going to run slower than he probably is capable of running due to his poor technqiue. Plus, he was really tensed. You could see it all in his face as he ran. If he worked with a speed coach, they could teach him to take more footsteps, which increases footspeed and lowers your time. They could have told him to keep his arms at his side and move them up and down so that he does not create wasted motion. They could taught him how to get off to a better start and how to follow through at the end. And given that this was his proday where he was at a place he feels comfortable, he was obviously less tense, which also helped him to run a faster time. Again, there is really nothing fishy about it if you understand how a proper running technique could help a guy maximize his speed.

keylime_5
03-13-2009, 05:23 PM
This has some stuff about the Ohio State pro day, including Laurinaitis commenting on the Lucas Oil Stadium surface being soft and slow.

http://blog.dispatch.com/buckeyesblog/2009/03/quickie_pro_day_update.shtml

Flyboy
03-13-2009, 05:47 PM
If Malcolm Jenkins is off the board, the Saints will gladly welcome Chris Wells into the fold to pair with Reggie Bush.


Bet your ass we would. I've been saying that for the past month around these parts.

Seasonticketholder
03-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Bet your ass we would. I've been saying that for the past month around these parts.

Hey Fly, it's RealChris. I've been saying the same thing since January. I've tried to tell the guys over at Saintsreport that he would be our pick if one of the top defenders--Curry or Jenkins--is not there.

thetedginnshow
03-13-2009, 07:20 PM
If Beanie bulked up his legs, he wouldn't go down every time someone throws their body into his legs, afraid of Steve. And, he wouldn't have all those injuries.

Falcon_from_E_Oakland
03-13-2009, 11:37 PM
Moreno is clearly the better prospect. Guys like Moreno are rare. He has the best balance I've seen since Barry.

I may be an UGA fan but this kid is truly special. I'll say it straight up, I dont think Stafford will be all that good, but Moreno will be one of the best backs in the league.

ThePudge
03-13-2009, 11:49 PM
Moreno is clearly the better prospect. Guys like Moreno are rare. He has the best balance I've seen since Barry.

This, of course, coming from someone that has obviously watched extensive film on both backs. I'm sure there is no bias here and I'm sure you've seen Wells play more than five times during his career living on the West Coast. Intangibly, Moreno has an edge. However, as far as talent goes, there is little question that Wells takes it. Personally, if I'm using a Top 15 pick on one, it's Wells. Moreno should be a very good NFL back, Wells could be a star.

Cicero
03-14-2009, 12:46 AM
Moreno is clearly the better prospect. Guys like Moreno are rare. He has the best balance I've seen since Barry.

I may be an UGA fan but this kid is truly special. I'll say it straight up, I dont think Stafford will be all that good, but Moreno will be one of the best backs in the league.

He doesn't have NFL breakaway speed. As far as being balanced, he's pretty slow for a RB of his size.

ThePudge
03-14-2009, 12:56 AM
He doesn't have NFL breakaway speed. As far as being balanced, he's pretty slow for a RB of his size.

I think he probably meant actual balance as a runner. He doesn't go down easy, he runs with vision, patience, and balance.

Cicero
03-14-2009, 01:06 AM
I think he probably meant actual balance as a runner. He doesn't go down easy, he runs with vision, patience, and balance.

Ah, ya probably. I would argue Noel Devine has better balance and is more agile, although Moreno is obviously a more complete back.

Falcon_from_E_Oakland
03-14-2009, 02:20 AM
This, of course, coming from someone that has obviously watched extensive film on both backs. I'm sure there is no bias here and I'm sure you've seen Wells play more than five times during his career living on the West Coast. Intangibly, Moreno has an edge. However, as far as talent goes, there is little question that Wells takes it. Personally, if I'm using a Top 15 pick on one, it's Wells. Moreno should be a very good NFL back, Wells could be a star.

well thats a fair perspective, I understand the case for Wells and you seem like a very knowledgeable guy but Knowshon is something that doesnt come around every year. He did what he did with one of the worst o-lines in the SEC.

and to fair Wells' isnt exactly a "blazer"

I have watched Ohio State a lot more than I'd probably prefer.....haha, My brother is a huge Buckeyes fan, so I've seen my fair share of Chris Wells **coughalmosteverygamehehasplayedcough** :)

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-14-2009, 04:39 AM
If Moreno ran his 40 at Ohio State's Pro Day, I bet he would "suddenly" become a sub 4.45 guy too.

Moreno reminds me a lot of Emmitt Smith, excellent tools except for speed, and Moreno is IMO much quicker, bigger and more elusive than Smith ever was.

He should be a 1300-1500 yard back for 10 years.

fear the elf
03-14-2009, 11:44 AM
If Moreno ran his 40 at Ohio State's Pro Day, I bet he would "suddenly" become a sub 4.45 guy too.

Moreno reminds me a lot of Emmitt Smith, excellent tools except for speed, and Moreno is IMO much quicker, bigger and more elusive than Smith ever was.

He should be a 1300-1500 yard back for 10 years.

so you are giving him AT LEAST 13,000 yards for his career already? making him the 7th leading rusher in the history of the nfl and basically putting him into the hall of fame... before he even gets drafted?

i'm sorry but i laughed when i read this.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Okay, an obvious exaggeration on my part, but I think Moreno will be a more consistent yardage gainer over his career than Wells.

It's stupid to project how many yards a RB will gain over 10 years, but you get my point.

Scott Wright
03-15-2009, 02:33 AM
As everyone stated the Ohio St. Pro Day always takes place on a fast track and scouts add .1 to all the time. So if Wells ran a 4.38 they will mark it down as a 4.48, which is about what most expected from him all along.

As for the big improvement from Indy, everyone I've spoken to about the Lucas Oil track feels it was slow and Wells legs were also drained from all those broad jump attempts. All those factors considered it's not a surprise that he was able to improve his time by a tenth of a second.

Castle
03-15-2009, 03:19 AM
So after all this, does Beanie crack the top 15?

ThePudge
03-15-2009, 04:23 AM
So after all this, does Beanie crack the top 15?

His value would point to that, but only Cleveland (5) and New Orleans (14) are really in the running to take him. I doubt Jacksonville, Denver, Seattle, Washington, or Cincinnati would have Wells overly high on their list despite arguable needs at RB. He could slip as low as 21 or so to Philadelphia due to the makeup of the field.

SaintsMan
03-15-2009, 04:40 AM
If Malcolm Jenkins doesn't fall to 14... Chris Wells, welcome to New Orleans

Iamcanadian
03-15-2009, 11:15 AM
I've seen him play plenty. Nothing is impossible but one he doesnt play that fast and two he ran much slower at the combine. If somehow all the stars alligned and he did run that time then grade everyone else from the combine on the same curve.

People do have off days. While the 4.3 range may not equate to the combine times, the others who ran on the track and at the combine weren't significantly faster on Ohio St's track. Jenkins still ran a 4.54 on his own track. A few years ago Fitzgerald also had a poor combine time but improved it significantly at his pro day.
I think you have to give Wells at least a 4.45 timing and at his weight, that jumps him up quite a bit IMO. It probably gets him at least a top 15 ranking.
As for not playing that fast, he sure fooled all the gurus who had him in the top 10 at the start of the process. They all seemed to think he was fast in games and on film.

Iamcanadian
03-15-2009, 11:18 AM
If Malcolm Jenkins doesn't fall to 14... Chris Wells, welcome to New Orleans

Unless NO plays a Cover 2 defense or intends to shift him to FS, Jenkins could find himself in a free fall on draft day right out of round 1. He looks eerily like Flowers, the top rated CB last year who dropped to round 2 after a poor 40 time.

Rjspartan
03-15-2009, 11:21 AM
who takes him now new orleans, houston, philly?

ThePudge
03-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Unless NO plays a Cover 2 defense or intends to shift him to FS, Jenkins could find himself in a free fall on draft day right out of round 1. He looks eerily like Flowers, the top rated CB last year who dropped to round 2 after a poor 40 time.

haha You're stuck on this comparison man. Brandon Flowers and Malcolm Jenkins are not all that similar. They hail from different systems, Jenkins is a much bigger guy at 6'0 204 as compared to 5'9 187, he's a two time All-American and Thorpe Award Winner. There was talk of Malcolm in the Top 5, Flowers wasn't even unanimously the #1 Cornerback at any point. After the Senior Bowl, Leodis McKelvin and Mike Jenkins were wrestling for that #1 spot. After the Combine, it was McKelvin and DRC battling for the top spot with Aqib Talib, Antoine Cason, and Mike Jenkins trailing.

I loved Brandon Flowers as he was a player who really did it on the field. Flowers ended up at #35 on my Big Board, he ended at #57 on Scott's board. I think it's very safe to say Jenkins will not drop out of my Top 20 and will not drop out of Scott's Top 25. Flowers ended up drafted 35th, a lucky call on my part, and had a great year for a team who really couldn't rush the passer to help him out.

ThePudge
03-15-2009, 12:06 PM
who takes him now new orleans, houston, philly?

Those could be three teams that would noticeably have a steal if Wells falls out of the Top 10-12. Who knows if New York at 17 would pass up Wells despite greater needs elsewhere.

Seattle, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville are all distant Top 10 possibilities. Seattle, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville will likely keep their RB need on the back burner this early. Keep an eye on the Browns though who may be sitting in an ideal place for a trade back due to the obvious nature of Cincinnati's draft. If they do trade back, likely later in the Top 10, they could be the top fit for Wells.

Babylon
03-15-2009, 12:19 PM
As everyone stated the Ohio St. Pro Day always takes place on a fast track and scouts add .1 to all the time. So if Wells ran a 4.38 they will mark it down as a 4.48, which is about what most expected from him all along.

As for the big improvement from Indy, everyone I've spoken to about the Lucas Oil track feels it was slow and Wells legs were also drained from all those broad jump attempts. All those factors considered it's not a surprise that he was able to improve his time by a tenth of a second.

Good points, bottom line he looks like a 4.5 guy on game day.

no love
03-15-2009, 12:32 PM
Moreno reminds me most of Frank Gore. Both guys have a good burst and run well in between the tackles. Neither guy is a big bruiser, but they don't have to be, because of their good footwork and lateral agility.

Both guys are shifty, have great balance, great feet, and finish every run. I wouldn't be surprised to see Moreno equal Gore's production, with maybe a few more catches.

Flyboy
03-15-2009, 01:22 PM
If Malcolm Jenkins doesn't fall to 14... Chris Wells, welcome to New Orleans

You're damned right, sir! :)

Iamcanadian
03-16-2009, 10:59 PM
haha You're stuck on this comparison man. Brandon Flowers and Malcolm Jenkins are not all that similar. They hail from different systems, Jenkins is a much bigger guy at 6'0 204 as compared to 5'9 187, he's a two time All-American and Thorpe Award Winner. There was talk of Malcolm in the Top 5, Flowers wasn't even unanimously the #1 Cornerback at any point. After the Senior Bowl, Leodis McKelvin and Mike Jenkins were wrestling for that #1 spot. After the Combine, it was McKelvin and DRC battling for the top spot with Aqib Talib, Antoine Cason, and Mike Jenkins trailing.

I loved Brandon Flowers as he was a player who really did it on the field. Flowers ended up at #35 on my Big Board, he ended at #57 on Scott's board. I think it's very safe to say Jenkins will not drop out of my Top 20 and will not drop out of Scott's Top 25. Flowers ended up drafted 35th, a lucky call on my part, and had a great year for a team who really couldn't rush the passer to help him out.

Jenkins may be bigger but it still won't enable him to stay with elite WR's in the NFL who run in the 4.3 or 4.4 range. Even most of the #2 WR's in the NFL are a lot faster that he is. Now he may go higher than Flowers but it will be as a Safety otherwise he'll have a hard time going top 20 unless a Cover 2 team drafts him and very few Cover 2 teams waste 1st round picks on CB's who play in a zone in their system. We are talking about a CB who runs close to a 4.60, 40 and last I looked you won't find many of those even starting for basic 4-3 or 3-4 teams.
As for where Flowers was ranked, Mayock had him #1 until he ran his 40 and while Mayock isn't perfect, you'd be a fool to ignore his rankings.

fear the elf
03-17-2009, 07:38 AM
Jenkins may be bigger but it still won't enable him to stay with elite WR's in the NFL who run in the 4.3 or 4.4 range. Even most of the #2 WR's in the NFL are a lot faster that he is. Now he may go higher than Flowers but it will be as a Safety otherwise he'll have a hard time going top 20 unless a Cover 2 team drafts him and very few Cover 2 teams waste 1st round picks on CB's who play in a zone in their system. We are talking about a CB who runs close to a 4.60, 40 and last I looked you won't find many of those even starting for basic 4-3 or 3-4 teams.
As for where Flowers was ranked, Mayock had him #1 until he ran his 40 and while Mayock isn't perfect, you'd be a fool to ignore his rankings.

he ran 4.55 on what everyone has decided is a slow track in indy. and he was only .06 seconds slower than vontae. also, who is mayocks #1 corner right now? he isn't perfect, but you'd be a fool to ignore his rankings.

Flippityskip91
03-18-2009, 09:39 AM
Jenkins may be bigger but it still won't enable him to stay with elite WR's in the NFL who run in the 4.3 or 4.4 range. Even most of the #2 WR's in the NFL are a lot faster that he is. Now he may go higher than Flowers but it will be as a Safety otherwise he'll have a hard time going top 20 unless a Cover 2 team drafts him and very few Cover 2 teams waste 1st round picks on CB's who play in a zone in their system. We are talking about a CB who runs close to a 4.60, 40 and last I looked you won't find many of those even starting for basic 4-3 or 3-4 teams.
As for where Flowers was ranked, Mayock had him #1 until he ran his 40 and while Mayock isn't perfect, you'd be a fool to ignore his rankings.

With a 4.55ish he's pretty much in the same range as all the other top corners. But hey, who needs corners...let's move everyone in this years class to FS because they're slow. There were a ton of 4.52s, 4.53s, 4.54s and such at this years combine by CBs. If you're going to say he's a Cover 2 CB or that he has to play FS just because of his 40 time then you have shift several other CBs to FS...can't have a double standard. If he falls to 20 he's a steal. Timed speed doesn't mean jack when you put on pads and get on that field.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2009, 10:09 AM
he ran 4.55 on what everyone has decided is a slow track in indy. and he was only .06 seconds slower than vontae. also, who is mayocks #1 corner right now? he isn't perfect, but you'd be a fool to ignore his rankings.

Mayock may have him as his #1 CB but even with his possible ability to shift to FS, he still has him ranked as #19 on his board which is hardly much of a recommendation that he can play for a basic 4-3 or 3-4 defense in man coverage.
Who says Indy is a slow track? Ever think that just maybe this years crop of skill players isn't up to snuff. The OL, DL, TE's, LB's and Safties all ran well at the combine. How did they manage that on a slow track. You also have to remember that the track the NFL used at the combine the last 2 years was a new track and only used for 2 combines so maybe it was an exceptionaslly fast track and not in line with previous year's times.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2009, 10:16 AM
With a 4.55ish he's pretty much in the same range as all the other top corners. But hey, who needs corners...let's move everyone in this years class to FS because they're slow. There were a ton of 4.52s, 4.53s, 4.54s and such at this years combine by CBs. If you're going to say he's a Cover 2 CB or that he has to play FS just because of his 40 time then you have shift several other CBs to FS...can't have a double standard. If he falls to 20 he's a steal. Timed speed doesn't mean jack when you put on pads and get on that field.

Where have you been, a 4.55 isn't close to the speed top CB's have. Most have elite speed in the 4.3 or 4.4 range unless you are looking at CB's who play for Cover 2 teams. Cover 2 teams play mostly a zone defense where a CB can be slower since they rarely man up on a WR.
This year's crop of CB's is obviously mediocre if Jenkins ranks #1 and is rated to go around #19. After the combine you don't hear a lot about too many CB's going in round 1 with only Vontae Davis joining Jenkins in the first round.

bucknut12
03-18-2009, 11:28 AM
I don't buy the whole fast thing, unless you consider FieldTurf a fast track, but who doesn't have it.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/16/steelers-contingent-attends-ohio-state-pro-day/

Watch the video there and can see the top guys running on Field Turf. It is not like the astro-turf surface right next to the field turf. Here is link to roy hall running on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCG2EAVGoAI

The strength and condition coach at Ohio State has been quoted on the radio saying Wells waking up at 3 am can run a 4.4. So it doesn't necessarily surprise me.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 11:35 AM
In most years with Jenkins slow 40 time, he wouldn't be a top rated corner heading into the draft.

Look at the speed of Ohio State's previous top rate CBs. Jenkins doesn't measure up and I suspect he's benefited by playing for an elite college program, not his pure athletic skill.

Same deal with Miami 'Canes CB Antrell Rolle and how draftniks were rating him the top CB even though he didn't have the speed to play CB in the pros.
Almost the same prospect as Jenkins, except now Rolle is playing safety for Arizona.

Flippityskip91
03-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Where have you been, a 4.55 isn't close to the speed top CB's have. Most have elite speed in the 4.3 or 4.4 range unless you are looking at CB's who play for Cover 2 teams.

I was referring to the CBs in this draft class, not the top CBs in the NFL. A lot of them ran slow this year, that doesn't mean they're mediocre, it just means you have to pay more attention to how they play and whether or not their technique is good enough. Not everyone in the NFL is a track athlete regardless of how you feel about the 40.