PDA

View Full Version : Duke Robinson and Phil Loadholt.


Pitt
03-16-2009, 11:12 PM
Last year around this time, they were top 15 prospects for this years draft.

Did these two benefit from playing on the same side of the line together? (i.e. Better result on the field). Now that they are being dissected indivdually, their stock has dropped signficantly..

Matthew Jones
03-16-2009, 11:18 PM
They've been dropping a bit through the year. Neither one was especially impressive down the stretch and Loadholt has not shown the ability to handle speed off the edge.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
03-16-2009, 11:20 PM
They both were incredibly overrated. Duke as a middle 2nd rounder is about right. I don't think he's a better prospect than guys like Aaron Sears or Blalock of a few years ago.

I don't see Loadholt as a starter in the NFL. It's good to be that big, but he has horrible knee bend and I don't think could even cut it at RT in the NFL.

I think Loadholt is a 4th/5th rounder.

BeerBaron
03-16-2009, 11:58 PM
Well, I still feel that Loadholt would make a great RT in the late 2nd round area. Yeah, he was overrated before with first round hype, but in that area, I think you'd get a great run blocking RT out of him.

As for Robinson, I think he's still the best true guard prospect in the draft and will go mid-2nd. He really hurt himself in the national title game, but he had times of being great before that.

SenorGato
03-17-2009, 12:06 AM
Both will be fine in the long run.

I really, really like Duke as a pro.

holt_bruce81
03-17-2009, 12:28 AM
I like them both. I think Loadholt could be a dominating Run-Blocker in the NFL.

BigBanger
03-17-2009, 01:15 AM
Both are finally getting rated where they deserve. The day everyone stops talking about Loadholt is the day he gets the recognition he deserves: None. That day with come the day after the draft comes to a close when he's mentioned as someone's 6th round pick. He will not amount to anything in the NFL. Loadholt has NO redeeming qualities. He's a big slow T that bends at the waist and gets killed off the snap. Terrible DEs ran around him all year long. He plays with terrible leverage. He's like a poor mans Max Starks, and I'm being very generous. He's more like a poor mans Mike Williams.

Duke is very slow with bad feet and hips as well. He can't move laterally at all. He is going to be scheme dependent and struggle with quick DTs. He's a solid 3rd rounder. Late second if a team has a glaring need.

Laodholt and Herman Johnson are big oger's who are too big to be in the NFL. They can't handle guys with great speed, technique and leverage. They have no desirable qualities.

Mr. Stiller
03-17-2009, 05:39 AM
Well, I still feel that Loadholt would make a great RT in the late 2nd round area. Yeah, he was overrated before with first round hype, but in that area, I think you'd get a great run blocking RT out of him.

As for Robinson, I think he's still the best true guard prospect in the draft and will go mid-2nd. He really hurt himself in the national title game, but he had times of being great before that.

I've been saying all year and getting slammed. Robinson is a 3rd round prospect.

In terms of talent, I don't know if he's a better prospect than Vasquez.

Robinson has had decent games against weaker dt's that can't move him (Much like Terrance Cody against 285lb OG's).

Robinson has been exposed on National TV twice in bowl games. The Florida game wasn't nearly as damning as the WVU Game where UDFA Keilen Dykes and Johnny Dingle just abused him all game.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 07:51 AM
I don't recall that. I remember Robinson being talked about in the second half of the first. This was before the junior declared, so it is perfectly reasonable that they would be considered where they are right now. Robinson is particular is overrated. He missed blocked at a high rate because he is over aggressive and has poor lateral movement. Loadholt has a chance to make something of himself at RT in the NFL, but he would have to work his way into the starting lineup. If not, he could be a RG.

oldman9er
03-17-2009, 08:01 AM
As said, I agree that Duke looks like a good pick in the mid 2nd round.

Loadholt has awful recovery speed, so if he twitches the wrong way in the slightest, his man will blow past him if not illegally held. He might be a RT for a short time, but I suspect that he will get exposed as the next Kwame Harris. All that said, he will probably be drafted in the 2nd/3rd by an OT-desperate team that feels they can improve him.

Pitt
03-17-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't recall that. I remember Robinson being talked about in the second half of the first. This was before the junior declared, so it is perfectly reasonable that they would be considered where they are right now. Robinson is particular is overrated. He missed blocked at a high rate because he is over aggressive and has poor lateral movement. Loadholt has a chance to make something of himself at RT in the NFL, but he would have to work his way into the starting lineup. If not, he could be a RG.

Todd McShay had Robinson and Loaholt right there with the likes of Maualuga, Tyson Jackson, Vontae Davis, Malcolm Jenkins, and Michael Oher, as top prospects, about exactly around this time last year. And if I remember correctly, Robinson was being compared to Shawn Andrews.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 09:58 AM
Good to see Loadholt's become under-rated, after being over-rated last season. The kid's going to be an LT in the NFL and a good one at that. He's a monster run blocker and is a lot more fluid at LT than you'd expect from a man his size. He still needs some polish, but I'm a fan of his if you need an OT in the second.

619
03-17-2009, 10:20 AM
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see Loadholt start on the left side in the mold of a Marcus McNeill, which I'm sure has been discussed here before, but RT is still his more natural position where he can establish himself as a dominant run blocker, primarily. Loadholt and Robinson are both solid mid-late second round values, not the first round hype we saw from earlier in the year.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 10:30 AM
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see Loadholt start on the left side in the mold of a Marcus McNeill, which I'm sure has been discussed here before, but RT is still his more natural position where he can establish himself as a dominant run blocker, primarily. Loadholt and Robinson are both solid mid-late second round values, not the first round hype we saw from earlier in the year.

He may profile more to a RT but he's definitely more natural on the left, at least right now.

killxswitch
03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
He may profile more to a RT but he's definitely more natural on the left, at least right now.

Do you mean in his final year of college only or the NFL as well?

bitonti
03-17-2009, 10:45 AM
believe it or not loadholt is a natural LT, and underrated by fans. he fits perfectly with a team like PIT.

duke robinson is an injured fat tub and overrated by fans. If I were a GM he wouldn't be on my draft board.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 11:02 AM
Do you mean in his final year of college only or the NFL as well?

I mean right now, march 17th, 2009 Phil Loadholt is more comfortable and natural playing on the left side of an oline than on the right, regardless of level of competition. Now he might struggle in the NFL and be moved to the right, but from what he did at the senior bowl and during the season it seems to me that doing everything from the left side is more natural for him.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 12:08 PM
Todd McShay had Robinson and Loaholt right there with the likes of Maualuga, Tyson Jackson, Vontae Davis, Malcolm Jenkins, and Michael Oher, as top prospects, about exactly around this time last year. And if I remember correctly, Robinson was being compared to Shawn Andrews.


but that was a year ago. What does is matter? A lot happens in a year.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 12:11 PM
believe it or not loadholt is a natural LT, and underrated by fans. he fits perfectly with a team like PIT.

duke robinson is an injured fat tub and overrated by fans. If I were a GM he wouldn't be on my draft board.


he is not.

Saints-Tigers
03-17-2009, 12:20 PM
I love Robinson.

I love how this board works, Bradford is overrated because he plays untouched because of the great o-line, yet the great o-line sucks and they are overrated? Which is it? I'm thinking they are both damn good players, particularly in the run game, but I like Robinson better than Loadholt, and I think Duke is going to be a top level road grader.

Iamcanadian
03-17-2009, 12:53 PM
I agree that Loadholt has no knee bend in his game and plays way too high, however he impressed me with his conditioning and his natural strength.
I don't see him as a starter at the next level for a couple of years but with extensive training I think he will start down the road and be a pretty good RT. A round 2 pick but don't expect him to start right out of the shute. LT is out of the question for him.
Duke is a different story. He has virtually no lateral movement and is strickly a straight ahead brawler. He won't suit a lot of offensive systems but there are a few teams that might get something out of him. I could see him slipping to round 3.

killxswitch
03-17-2009, 01:16 PM
I mean right now, march 17th, 2009 Phil Loadholt is more comfortable and natural playing on the left side of an oline than on the right, regardless of level of competition. Now he might struggle in the NFL and be moved to the right, but from what he did at the senior bowl and during the season it seems to me that doing everything from the left side is more natural for him.


So by more natural you mean that is what he has played and what he is used to. That makes sense, though it's a little obvious. Moving to RT would take some time since it is on the far opposite end of the line and he'll have to adjust to thinking in terms of right vs. left. In a few years I'm sure he'll look like a natural RT.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
I agree that Loadholt has no knee bend in his game and plays way too high, however he impressed me with his conditioning and his natural strength.
I don't see him as a starter at the next level for a couple of years but with extensive training I think he will start down the road and be a pretty good RT. A round 2 pick but don't expect him to start right out of the shute. LT is out of the question for him.
Duke is a different story. He has virtually no lateral movement and is strickly a straight ahead brawler. He won't suit a lot of offensive systems but there are a few teams that might get something out of him. I could see him slipping to round 3.

It's nice to break players down to their molecular makeup, but each and every year with no execeptions, there are guys who are not evaluated at top prospects who develop into starters and have nice careers. I think Loadholt is one of those cats. I look at how he was able to improve from his junior year when he was overrated to his senior year when he appeared to be in incredible shape. The guy is just a fighter and an overachiever despite his size.

Pitt
03-17-2009, 03:08 PM
but that was a year ago. What does is matter? A lot happens in a year.


And they went backwards. Which is the point of the thread mcfly.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 03:21 PM
And they went backwards. Which is the point of the thread mcfly.

They got overhyped, it happens to prospects all the time. They show some very good signs and people get excited, build up hype, then when people really start focusing on these guys they see some of the rough edges and they're stock slides. I don't see what the problem is. No one's arguing they're elite prospects right now, so what does the fact that they were once considered to be potential elite prospects have to do with anything? That's like bitching about a 5 star recruit who develops into a day two player.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 03:45 PM
And they went backwards. Which is the point of the thread mcfly.

They didn't necessarily go backward. The evaluation process was not complete a year ago. Evaluators are often plain wrong.

Black Bolt
03-17-2009, 03:47 PM
It's not always a case of regression on the part of the player, often times it's that the evaluation process is not complete.

They got overhyped, it happens to prospects all the time. They show some very good signs and people get excited, build up hype, then when people really start focusing on these guys they see some of the rough edges and they're stock slides. I don't see what the problem is. No one's arguing they're elite prospects right now, so what does the fact that they were once considered to be potential elite prospects have to do with anything? That's like bitching about a 5 star recruit who develops into a day two player.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 04:33 PM
It's not always a case of regression on the part of the player, often times it's that the evaluation process is not complete.

that would be my point, sorry if it wasn't clear from my explanation, they haven't regressed, people just discovered their flaws and have calmed down.

BigBanger
03-18-2009, 08:37 AM
that would be my point, sorry if it wasn't clear from my explanation, they haven't regressed, people just discovered their flaws and have calmed down.
One thing you have to realize is that no one in their right mind has EVER considered Duke Robinson or Philip Loadhoalt top 15 picks. They never were and never will be. If anyone watched them as juniors and actually evaluated them like I did, then they would have never gotten first day hype. Whoever does Mocks in August is just plain guessing. The better question is: Why did people guess Duke Robinson (third rounder) or Philip Loadholt (5th rounder) would ever be seen as potential top 20 picks by NFL teams?

They were obviously guessing since you can tell they didn't watch them. If they did then they'd get the hype they deserve. See Rey Maulauga. He's still overrated. Runs a terrible 40 time at the combine and people just use an excuse for it. It's called denial. A lot of people get it. People who consider Rey Rey a first rounder are in denial.

I personally don't even look at mocks until about this time. It's a HUGE waste of time to make a mock before this time, and it's an even bigger waste of time for me to look at someone's mock.

Robinson hasn't been exposed over the last months. He was exposed in October and September. People are just now watching the tape.

ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 09:02 AM
I still really like Loadholt. He impressed me quite a bit at the Senior Bowl, absolutely dominating at times even against speed rushers. He won't be doing that at the NFL level though. Plays too tall. Doesn't turn around quick enough. He could end up being the best right tackle in the draft by the end of things. He's more than athletic enough to handle that spot and his natural strength and mauling ability will help. The only thing to worry about is his comfort level. He's never played there and looked awkward when asked to switch to the right side of the line. He's still a solid second round prospect and probably the best right tackle in the draft if he's able to adjust to that side of the line.

Robinson has been exposed a bit but I still think he's one of the better, if not the best guards in the draft. He's awkward when he's asked to play in space and doesn't look particularly comfortable pass blocking, but when he's on he can really move the pile. His mobility is actually being underrated a bit. From what I've seen, he's actually pretty good in space. I think Scott's report is really fair.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2009, 10:27 AM
I still really like Loadholt. He impressed me quite a bit at the Senior Bowl, absolutely dominating at times even against speed rushers. He won't be doing that at the NFL level though. Plays too tall. Doesn't turn around quick enough. He could end up being the best right tackle in the draft by the end of things. He's more than athletic enough to handle that spot and his natural strength and mauling ability will help. The only thing to worry about is his comfort level. He's never played there and looked awkward when asked to switch to the right side of the line. He's still a solid second round prospect and probably the best right tackle in the draft if he's able to adjust to that side of the line.

Robinson has been exposed a bit but I still think he's one of the better, if not the best guards in the draft. He's awkward when he's asked to play in space and doesn't look particularly comfortable pass blocking, but when he's on he can really move the pile. His mobility is actually being underrated a bit. From what I've seen, he's actually pretty good in space. I think Scott's report is really fair.

Decent analysis of Loadholt. He definitely plays way too high but I was impressed with his strength and his conditioning for the combine. However, he won't be able to start at the next level until he learns to bend more as fast NFL DE's will eat him up by staying low and using their speed to beat him. I believe he will learn to adjust and in a couple of years could be a pretty good RT but not right off the bat. Players who have to switch positions often look awkward at the Senior Bowl/combine but they do eventually lose that awkwardness with practice. I think Britton is clearly the top RT prospect in this yeasr's draft not Loadholt.

As for Robinson, he won't be able to play in a lot of offensive systems because he lacks any kind of lateral movement. However there are a few teams where his style might fit in but he is a longshot to be a starter at the next level.

bitonti
03-18-2009, 11:59 AM
some guys look better playing on one side or another - Loadholt looks far better at LT than he does at RT. We can dispute his projection until the cows come home but a lineman should generally play at their best position. Levi Brown was the opposite, terrible going left, great going right. Some guys can only go 1 way...

Black Bolt
03-18-2009, 01:05 PM
that would be my point, sorry if it wasn't clear from my explanation, they haven't regressed, people just discovered their flaws and have calmed down.


I was echoing your sentiments.

Iamcanadian
03-18-2009, 01:41 PM
some guys look better playing on one side or another - Loadholt looks far better at LT than he does at RT. We can dispute his projection until the cows come home but a lineman should generally play at their best position. Levi Brown was the opposite, terrible going left, great going right. Some guys can only go 1 way...

If Loadholt cannot adjust to playing RT then his career as a football player is over, he doesn't have LT ability at all.

killxswitch
03-18-2009, 01:49 PM
some guys look better playing on one side or another - Loadholt looks far better at LT than he does at RT. We can dispute his projection until the cows come home but a lineman should generally play at their best position. Levi Brown was the opposite, terrible going left, great going right. Some guys can only go 1 way...

He is used to playing LT. At one time he wasn't and I'm sure he looked awkward trying. It's not like humans are born with left tackle instincts. If he can handle LT and works hard he will get used to RT, which is what I think he will eventually have to do.

miamiron
03-21-2009, 03:52 AM
he is not.
he is to...............