PDA

View Full Version : The "He's Not That Good" Thread


Splat
03-17-2009, 10:04 PM
Who is a player on your team that fans from other teams love but you think "He's Not That Good". :)

Chiefs - Derrick Johnson I'm in no way calling him a bust in fact I think he is a pretty good player but no were near as good as some seem to think.

He has had a very up and down career looks like and all pro one week and the next is invisible and you would forget he is on the field I feel some of that was coaching but still.

Your picks?

regoob2
03-17-2009, 10:05 PM
Tommie Harris. He had a horrible first half and was inconsistent all season.

bored of education
03-17-2009, 10:05 PM
Splat420 Vidae is gonna kill you!

Xonraider
03-17-2009, 10:05 PM
I don't know, none of them are really good except for Nnamdi and Shane

GBahDunka
03-17-2009, 10:07 PM
Tony Romo!

Splat
03-17-2009, 10:07 PM
Splat420 Vidae is gonna kill you!

LOL don't get me wrong I love DJ I do and still feel he can be an all pro but as of today I stand by what I said.

619
03-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Kirk Morrison. A great team leader and very good in coverage, but misses too many tackles and undersized for the position. I still love the guy though.

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 10:14 PM
Antonio Pierce, he's gotten chubby which has made him really slow.

Michigan
03-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Ernie Sims- He NEEDS a Shaun Rogers in front of him to be effective. Then again, most LBers do, which is why no LB should ever go in the top 5. ;)

Brodeur
03-17-2009, 10:23 PM
Ernie Sims- He NEEDS a Shaun Rogers in front of him to be effective. Then again, most LBers do, which is why no LB should ever go in the top 5. ;)

People still think Ernie Sims is very good?

yo123
03-17-2009, 10:25 PM
Ben Leber, I've heard a lot of times on this site about how underrated he is but he's really very average in my eyes.

yodabear
03-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Anyone not named OJ Atogwe or Steven Jackson.

Brent
03-17-2009, 10:28 PM
Shaun Hill


haha

thetedginnshow
03-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Uh... well let's see...

Chucky
03-17-2009, 10:33 PM
I would say Jeremy Trueblood if people still think he is good. Im pretty sure he was on Peter Kings all pro team two years ago( I realize its peter king but still).

PACKmanN
03-17-2009, 10:34 PM
Nick Barnett, AJ Hawk, Atari Bigby. Pick one of those three.

TACKLE
03-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Matthew Stafford.

ironman4579
03-17-2009, 10:37 PM
People still think Ernie Sims is very good?

I have to agree with you there. He's looked basically lost for about the last two seasons really.

stephenson86
03-17-2009, 10:48 PM
i cant really think of an overrated starter on the titans ermmmm, Bo Scaife most likely, he was franchised this year but hes nothing more than an average HB who could easily be replaced

Leon Sandcastle
03-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Paul Posluszny and Donte Whitner.

GBahDunka
03-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Antonio Pierce, he's gotten chubby which has made him really slow.

he gets beat in coverage almost every play.

RaiderNation
03-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Kirk Morrison. Is a great in coverage as MLB but is just average in run defense. This might be because our dline cant eat up blocks though. If we get a decent NT, our d will be good

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 10:54 PM
James Sanders. Nobody thinks he's amazing or anything, but he's a fringe starter.

Ellis Hobbs as well. Same deal, except he's actually a starting caliber guy...just not one you should have any kind of comfort level matching up with a teams number one receiver.

DI
03-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Antonio Pierce is nowhere near the same player he used to be.. Another player who was a Giant last year who people were kind of interested in free agency this year was James Butler.. he is absolutely horrible. Gets undressed in coverage all the time and will make Sinorice Moss look like Steve Smith, the Panther one

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Antonio Pierce is nowhere near the same player he used to be.. Another player who was a Giant last year who people were kind of interested in free agency this year was James Butler.. he is absolutely horrible. Gets undressed in coverage all the time and will make Sinorice Moss look like Steve Smith, the Panther one

To be fair Butler had a really good year, I mean he didn't get burned every game in coverage and was strong against the run.

GB12
03-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Nick Barnett, AJ Hawk, Atari Bigby. Pick one of those three.
If you picked AJ Hawk you are correct.

Barnett was very good his first 5 years. This past season he looked horrible at the start and then was placed on IR halfway through, but he definitely doesn't belong in this thread. I think Packer fans have gotten way too down on him.

Bigby was bothered by injuries all season long. He only started 6 games and in the ones he did start maybe 2 of them he was 100%. I'm not going to judge him on 2008. In 2007 he showed some real promise especially towards the end. Maybe put him up as an unkown still, but again he doesn't belong in this thread.

Hawk is the one that fits perfectly.

dabears10
03-17-2009, 11:04 PM
Urlacher. He has gone from an Elite Linebacker to a very good one. He gets blocked out of plays has stopped making plays in the passing game.

GBahDunka
03-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Urlacher. He has gone from an Elite Linebacker to a very good one. He gets blocked out of plays has stopped making plays in the passing game.

to his defense he is getting up there in age

Woody56
03-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Alan Faneca

He is still good, but definately not worth what he got and could argue he was the 5th best lineman on the team last year

no love
03-17-2009, 11:16 PM
Alan Faneca

He is still good, but definately not worth what he got and could argue he was the 5th best lineman on the team last year

Nate Clements. For a supposed top tier corner, he can get absolutely lit-up by smaller wrs

GB12
03-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Nate Clements. For a supposed top tier corner, he can get absolutely lit-up by smaller wrs
Thing is, no one but 9ers fans ever really thought he was that good.

TimD
03-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Alan Faneca

He is still good, but definately not worth what he got and could argue he was the 5th best lineman on the team last year

Yeah but I he doesn't hurt the team at all which is good. Also, D'Brick had a career year and I think Faneca definitely impacted that. He didn't really get beat up with pass rushes, but he wasn't as dominant in the run game as he should be. I don't if i'd call him overrated. I really don't know who to pick here. Every on the Jets who is acknowledged as good is good haha

proshoota25
03-17-2009, 11:25 PM
James Sanders. Nobody thinks he's amazing or anything, but he's a fringe starter.

Ellis Hobbs as well. Same deal, except he's actually a starter caliber guy...just not one you should have any kind of comfort level matching up with a teams number one receiver.

i was going to say ellis hobbs as well.

vidae
03-17-2009, 11:42 PM
LOL don't get me wrong I love DJ I do and still feel he can be an all pro but as of today I stand by what I said.

It was the coaching! He wasn't used properly and our defensive line has been crap! DJ is one of the only players on our defense that is worth a damn.

You'll pay for this Splat! You'll paaaayyy for thiiiisss!

Matthew Jones
03-17-2009, 11:44 PM
Logan Mankins. Good guard, one of the top 10, but not one of the top 3 IMO. Maybe Brady will make him look like a beast next year though. Outside of him, maybe Ben Watson (if people think he's really good.)

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 11:45 PM
Logan Mankins. Good guard, one of the top 10, but not one of the top 3 IMO. Maybe Brady will make him look like a beast next year though. Outside of him, maybe Ben Watson (if people think he's really good.)

Ben Watson is a guy a lot of people overrate. He hasn't taken the next step a lot of people have been waiting for him to take and he doesn't look to have the natural receiving skills to do so.

GBahDunka
03-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Logan Mankins. Good guard, one of the top 10, but not one of the top 3 IMO. Maybe Brady will make him look like a beast next year though. Outside of him, maybe Ben Watson (if people think he's really good.)

yeah ben watson drops way too many balls.

The Legend
03-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Aaron Schobel hasn't been the same. Last Year he had 6 sacks. This year he had 1 sack in 6 games.

PoopSandwich
03-18-2009, 12:00 AM
Braylon Edwards...

I like the guy and want him to do good, but my god he was down right horrible last year and fans around the league kept saying "receivers cant impact a team that much" when you play as bad as he did last year you can impact your offense immensely.

Edit: Oh yeah, Kamerion Wimbley hasn't done squat since his rookie year.

OzTitan
03-18-2009, 12:07 AM
Keith Bulluck for sure. He probably peaked as a player right when the Titans sucked as a team, unfortunately. 2004-2005. Every year without fail he gets listed as a pro bowl snub, but he hasn't been at that level lately. A leader on D but he doesn't really have a particular strength on the field much anymore, and was never much against the run.

Paul
03-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Flozell maybe. He's a slap on the head away from being a full-******.

I do remember a post that said Marcus Spears helps Ware a lot in the front 7. :/

GBahDunka
03-18-2009, 12:15 AM
Flozell maybe. He's a slap on the head away from being a full-******.

I do remember a post that said Marcus Spears helps Ware a lot in the front 7. :/

I want Dallas the move Flo to the other side of the line.

TitanHope
03-18-2009, 12:45 AM
Keith Bulluck for sure. He probably peaked as a player right when the Titans sucked as a team, unfortunately. 2004-2005. Every year without fail he gets listed as a pro bowl snub, but he hasn't been at that level lately. A leader on D but he doesn't really have a particular strength on the field much anymore, and was never much against the run.

It appears that Bulluck has lost a step, but I disagree. The decline that Titans fans see started when out DEF went from 32nd in the NFL to a Top 10 unit. In my opinion, fans perceive the defensive talent around Bulluck rising to his level as Bulluck falling to their level.

The emergence of Haynesworth, Michael Griffin at FS, not Peter Sirmon at MIKE, the DL depth improving, excellent tackling CB's in Cortland Finnegan and Nick Harper, and not to mention David Thornton and Chris Hope settling in during their second year in the scheme. Bulluck is no longer the only one on DEF who can make the play. So, it looks like he's no longer the elite OLB he used to be, but that's wrong. This season, Bulluck led the defense in solo tackles and assisted tackles. Last season, he led the team in INT's.

Bulluck is a freak. He's 31 years old and is still one of the best 4-3 OLB's in the NFL. Before this season, he was the most consistently productive 4-3 LB as a SLB over the last 5 seasons, and I included WLB's and MLB's in my survey. The only one who was better than him in a statistic was Julian Peterson, who had more sacks per season. I haven't included this past season yet, but no doubt he's still up there.


My pick is Kerry Collins, because he had MVP talk midseason.

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2009, 12:52 AM
I want Dallas the move Flo to the other side of the line.

And put who in his spot...and put Columbo where? As long as we draft a LT I'll be ok, but Flozell sucks and most people know now so I didn't think to mention him, but he was in the Pro Bowl as an alternate though *shrugs*

GBahDunka
03-18-2009, 12:56 AM
And put who in his spot...and put Columbo where? As long as we draft a LT I'll be ok, but Flozell sucks and most people know now so I didn't think to mention him, but he was in the Pro Bowl as an alternate though *shrugs*

Well Flo is def in one ear, and unfortunately its the wrong ear

OzTitan
03-18-2009, 01:41 AM
It appears that Bulluck has lost a step, but I disagree. The decline that Titans fans see started when out DEF went from 32nd in the NFL to a Top 10 unit. In my opinion, fans perceive the defensive talent around Bulluck rising to his level as Bulluck falling to their level.

The emergence of Haynesworth, Michael Griffin at FS, not Peter Sirmon at MIKE, the DL depth improving, excellent tackling CB's in Cortland Finnegan and Nick Harper, and not to mention David Thornton and Chris Hope settling in during their second year in the scheme. Bulluck is no longer the only one on DEF who can make the play. So, it looks like he's no longer the elite OLB he used to be, but that's wrong. This season, Bulluck led the defense in solo tackles and assisted tackles. Last season, he led the team in INT's.

Bulluck is a freak. He's 31 years old and is still one of the best 4-3 OLB's in the NFL. Before this season, he was the most consistently productive 4-3 LB as a SLB over the last 5 seasons, and I included WLB's and MLB's in my survey. The only one who was better than him in a statistic was Julian Peterson, who had more sacks per season. I haven't included this past season yet, but no doubt he's still up there.


My pick is Kerry Collins, because he had MVP talk midseason.

I'm not really talking stats so much. I think he's a quality LB but on the field I just don't think he's as good as often made out. I'm not sure he's better than David Thornton. I think a lot of that is due to the fact a lot of "in the know" fans from other teams rightfully acknowledged him as underrated once upon a time and that status hasn't really updated much since. He's still viewed as really underrated but I don't think it's such a big travesty anymore.

A Perfect Score
03-18-2009, 03:32 AM
I would have said Bart Scott, but he is no longer a Raven...dude is Ed Hartwell 2.0 and benefitted ALOT from playing next to Ray...I have no doubt he is gunna flop in NY next year...guy just doesnt have the discipline nor athleticism to play the Ray Lewis role in that D...

However, on the Ravens, Im gunna say LeRon McClain...he is good in short yardage, and I like him as a change of pace and as a bruiser, but no way in hell should he be carrying the rock 20 times a game...big ball security issues and no long speed at all...the run at dallas doesnt count, because you could of run a dump truck through that hole

wicket
03-18-2009, 03:46 AM
Jaamal Brown for me. He is decent, good even but not the all world tackle that he seems to get credit for.

TitanHope
03-18-2009, 04:57 AM
I'm not really talking stats so much. I think he's a quality LB but on the field I just don't think he's as good as often made out. I'm not sure he's better than David Thornton. I think a lot of that is due to the fact a lot of "in the know" fans from other teams rightfully acknowledged him as underrated once upon a time and that status hasn't really updated much since. He's still viewed as really underrated but I don't think it's such a big travesty anymore.

It's still a travesty. He's been the most consistent LB in the NFL since '02, and he's never missed a game in that stretch. He played through cracked ribs this season, and still played very well. I think he was hurt worst for the Chicago game, and he still raked in 9 solo stops. No way does Bulluck deserve to have his name in this thread, and while Thornton is a very good player in his own right, he's quicker and that's about it.

The Unseen
03-18-2009, 07:59 AM
John Henderson declined big time last year. If he doesn't improve this year he's gonna be a problem.

Reggie Nelson did not play well at all last year. Big disappointment.

Rashean Mathis is a very good player, probably the best player on our defense right now, but he's not Top 5 in the league or a consistent All-Pro player. He gets burned too much for that honor.

ironman4579
03-18-2009, 08:07 AM
I would have said Bart Scott, but he is no longer a Raven...dude is Ed Hartwell 2.0 and benefitted ALOT from playing next to Ray...I have no doubt he is gunna flop in NY next year...guy just doesnt have the discipline nor athleticism to play the Ray Lewis role in that D...

However, on the Ravens, Im gunna say LeRon McClain...he is good in short yardage, and I like him as a change of pace and as a bruiser, but no way in hell should he be carrying the rock 20 times a game...big ball security issues and no long speed at all...the run at dallas doesnt count, because you could of run a dump truck through that hole

I don't really think he's going to be asked to play that role. I'm fairly sure the Jets will be using him in the same way as the Ravens, as a WILL inside backer. I'm fairly sure David Harris will be the Ray Lewis role SAM inside backer. Unless that wasn't what you meant.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-18-2009, 08:17 AM
Well this player is good, but not as good as people make him out to be..


Brandon Jacobs

the decider13
03-18-2009, 08:23 AM
Elvis Dummervil...he was good for one year, and totally got dominated last year. Hopeful that switching to 3-4 OLB helps.

P-L
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that Ernie Sims is garbage. I don't think Calvin Johnson is as amazingly spectacular as some others do, but since he's still really ******* good I can't say him either.

A Perfect Score
03-18-2009, 08:39 AM
I don't really think he's going to be asked to play that role. I'm fairly sure the Jets will be using him in the same way as the Ravens, as a WILL inside backer. I'm fairly sure David Harris will be the Ray Lewis role SAM inside backer. Unless that wasn't what you meant.

I wasnt referring to the specific position, more the leadership/dominant role that Ray plays in our defense...Scott isnt capable of demanding the same sort of attention that Ray garners wherever they line up on the field, and I think people will see Scott's play drop drastically when he is the focus of the defense, rather then playing second fiddle to Ray and basically being the leftover man on a defense that has Ray, Suggs, Pryce, Ngata and Reed demanding attention. If Scott becomes the focus of a defense, how ill he react? And he certainly isnt a leader...he has mega discipline issues, and needs to learn to shut his mouth, especially when dealing with the media.

DiG
03-18-2009, 08:59 AM
JC17:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200811/20081108wap_woodleysack_500.jpg

bearsfan_51
03-18-2009, 09:04 AM
I actually think most people have a pretty decent read on Urlacher and Tommie Harris. Pretty good players that aren't elite (in one case not anymore, in the other not consistent enough)

I'll say Alex Brown, and this goes to some Bears fans as well. Being great in run defense is nice, but no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year, even with a rotation. There's a reason the staff wanted to replace him with Mark Anderson.

bearsfan_51
03-18-2009, 09:04 AM
JC17:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200811/20081108wap_woodleysack_500.jpg
Jason Campbell would be better under the "he's just not that average" category.

Brodeur
03-18-2009, 09:14 AM
I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that Ernie Sims is garbage. I don't think Calvin Johnson is as amazingly spectacular as some others do, but since he's still really ******* good I can't say him either.

Well who needs you.

A Perfect Score
03-18-2009, 09:18 AM
Well who needs you.

No one! The answer is no one!

Sniper
03-18-2009, 09:23 AM
Asante Samuel. I love the fact that he's a ballhawk, but he's very, very average in coverage.

ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
Asante Samuel. I love the fact that he's a ballhawk, but he's very, very average in coverage.

Or a tick above on a good game where the matchup favors him. He's not above getting burned. Still a really good player, but yeah I agree with you.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
03-18-2009, 09:41 AM
I have to disagree with APS I think Bart Scott will do very well on the Jets and I thought he did well on our team and I am one who does not think Scott was overrated. I also think McClain getting the ball 20times a game is a good thing

NIN1984
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
I don't know, none of them are really good except for Nnamdi and Shane

he speaks the truth.

katnip
03-18-2009, 10:41 AM
Thomas Jones

draftguru151
03-18-2009, 10:42 AM
I'd go with Ronnie Brown. He's good but he dances so much and his vision isn't very good.

SenorGato
03-18-2009, 10:54 AM
I wasnt referring to the specific position, more the leadership/dominant role that Ray plays in our defense...Scott isnt capable of demanding the same sort of attention that Ray garners wherever they line up on the field, and I think people will see Scott's play drop drastically when he is the focus of the defense, rather then playing second fiddle to Ray and basically being the leftover man on a defense that has Ray, Suggs, Pryce, Ngata and Reed demanding attention. If Scott becomes the focus of a defense, how ill he react? And he certainly isnt a leader...he has mega discipline issues, and needs to learn to shut his mouth, especially when dealing with the media.

I didn't like the Scott signing when we first made it, but the more I think about it the more I think he completes our LB corps.

He's in his prime, he's versatile, and he's not being asked to be Ray Lewis he's being asked to be Bart Scott.

Scott + Harris is going to be big in NY. I think Scott's one of those players who can thrive in NYC too. He does seem to like the flashing lights...

If theres a player to call "not that good" on the Jets its Faneca. I hope Trevor Canfield is drafted so I know we have a beast replacement for him.

BamaFalcon59
03-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Falcons.

Harvey Dahl got a lot of recognition last season, and he was our worst offensive lineman.

Keith Brooking was horrible.

Michael Boley was nowhere to be seen. Still a beast when in the right scheme, though.

SaintsFanForLife
03-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Charles Grant.

Mr. Hero
03-18-2009, 11:04 AM
John Henderson declined big time last year. If he doesn't improve this year he's gonna be a problem.

Reggie Nelson did not play well at all last year. Big disappointment.

Rashean Mathis is a very good player, probably the best player on our defense right now, but he's not Top 5 in the league or a consistent All-Pro player. He gets burned too much for that honor.

What's been wrong with Nelson? I thought he could be as good as Landry when they came out but Landry's been beasting and Nelson just seems mediocre.

nobodyinparticular
03-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Keith Bulluck for sure. He probably peaked as a player right when the Titans sucked as a team, unfortunately. 2004-2005. Every year without fail he gets listed as a pro bowl snub, but he hasn't been at that level lately. A leader on D but he doesn't really have a particular strength on the field much anymore, and was never much against the run.

I've always wondered about that. In the Titans games I get to see, Bullock doesn't really seem to be that special on the field, but the last two years, a lot of Titans fans have sworn that Bullock is All-Pro caliber just like Haynesworth. Since I don't get to see too many Tennessee games, I stay relatively quiet.

thule
03-18-2009, 11:38 AM
Ken Hamlin I guess if I had to pick from the cowboys. I feel he is the only guy I really overrate.

nobodyinparticular
03-18-2009, 11:42 AM
For the Raiders, I don't think there is that player who is over rated (maybe Ronald Curry by select Raider fans until this year).

However, for "he's not that bad" I would say Tommy Kelly. A lot of people place him on the level of Javon Walker as a bust because of his contract. But he was actually one of our best defensive players last year. He wasn't a playmaker, but he controlled the line and did a good job of making a few plays as the season went on. A year removed from knee surgery I expect some sort of improvement in that category as well.

I don't think he'll ever be Sapp/T.Harris/Haynesworth, but he should not be lumped with Javon Walker or Deangelo Hall.

Dr. Gonzo
03-18-2009, 12:57 PM
I would say Bryant McKinnie. I would also say Darren Sharper when he was on the team. People underestimated just how bad he has become. I will also say Ryan Cook because I am sure people who play Madden and see his rating actually think he is decent.

TimD
03-18-2009, 01:02 PM
I wasnt referring to the specific position, more the leadership/dominant role that Ray plays in our defense...Scott isnt capable of demanding the same sort of attention that Ray garners wherever they line up on the field, and I think people will see Scott's play drop drastically when he is the focus of the defense, rather then playing second fiddle to Ray and basically being the leftover man on a defense that has Ray, Suggs, Pryce, Ngata and Reed demanding attention. If Scott becomes the focus of a defense, how ill he react? And he certainly isnt a leader...he has mega discipline issues, and needs to learn to shut his mouth, especially when dealing with the media.

You're making it sound like he's going to a defense where he will be the only good player and will be forced to be a leader. Remember this defense did really well last year with Eric Barton playing that role. Scott doesn't have to come in and put up ridiculous numbers for us to succeed, he just has to continue his strong play. The Jets have a lot of playmakers... Jenkins, Ellis, Harris, Pace, Revis, Rhodes, and Leonhard. And after that it's not like there are scrubs. Coleman, Thomas, and Sheppard are solid starters. I think Scott will have a great year, and I haven't seen him make any dumb comments to the media. He seems like a fairly intelligent guy.

Mr.Regular
03-18-2009, 01:07 PM
AJ Hawk and Al Harris (though I think we all know he's been slipping for the past couple year).

E-Man
03-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Thule is right about Ken Hamlin. He doesn't suck, but he's not as good as some people make him out to be.

Flozell is easy, but I think most people know that he's gotten old and false starts getting out of bed in the morning.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-18-2009, 01:16 PM
Redskins- Randy Thomas and even Chris Samuels to an extent. Many still think they are pro bowl level guys but Thomas in particular has lost many steps. Samuels is still high level but he's hurt a lot.

General Zod
03-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Adrian Peterson

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
03-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Adrian Peterson

Gotta be joking

bearsfan_51
03-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Adrian Peterson

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but a case could be made. Granted, he's probably the best runningback in the NFL right now, but it's not because he's an all-around great player, it's because he's ******* beastly in a few key areas. People tend to conflate the two sometimes.

Brent
03-18-2009, 02:54 PM
I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but a case could be made. Granted, he's probably the best runningback in the NFL right now, but it's not because he's an all-around great player, it's because he's ******* beastly in a few key areas. People tend to conflate the two sometimes.
Definitely, he tends to run like 10 2-3 yard runs and then break a 60 yarder. So, his stats look nice but it's not like he's dropping 4-5 yard runs each touch.

Thecollegedropout
03-18-2009, 02:56 PM
Had Favre stood around it'd be him but Faneca is the most logical pick. Sure as heck didnt play like the top paid guard in the game last season. Too inconsistent, had some very strong games and had some weak games. Seemed slow somewhat on pass protection and it usually came from his and D'Brick's side where Favre kept having to run and rush his throws or take the sack.

Hopefully he has a better year this time because if not....................

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2009, 03:09 PM
I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but a case could be made. Granted, he's probably the best runningback in the NFL right now, but it's not because he's an all-around great player, it's because he's ******* beastly in a few key areas. People tend to conflate the two sometimes.

He can catch out of the backfield, he has power to run a defender over like Brandon Jacobs or run around him like Reggie Bush, he's a great goal line back and a great 3rd down back, great vision, acceleration, explosion.


I'm not getting how he's not an all-around great player, what areas would he have to improve in to be considered an all around great back?

JRTPlaya21
03-18-2009, 03:11 PM
Jon Jansen. You're getting old. Nothing more to say.

GB12
03-18-2009, 03:14 PM
I actually think most people have a pretty decent read on Urlacher and Tommie Harris. Pretty good players that aren't elite (in one case not anymore, in the other not consistent enough)

I'll say Alex Brown, and this goes to some Bears fans as well. Being great in run defense is nice, but no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year, even with a rotation. There's a reason the staff wanted to replace him with Mark Anderson.
That is a completely ridiculous statement. In 2008 only 16 DEs had more than 6 sacks. There are 64 starting DEs in the league. So really 75% of starting DEs didn't get more than 6 sacks. I'm not going to take the time to find out the averages, but I'm sure more than 50% of starting DEs average 6 sacks or less.

General Zod
03-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Adrian Peterson

I meant the Bears Adrian Peterson. :-)

yeah i was kidding.

JRTPlaya21
03-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Like the sig Zod.

GaMeTiMe
03-18-2009, 04:05 PM
Asante Samuel. I love the fact that he's a ballhawk, but he's very, very average in coverage.

Correct. I think he's worth every penny because of how much he can change games, but even then he whiffs often on picks =/

TitanHope
03-18-2009, 05:08 PM
I've always wondered about that. In the Titans games I get to see, Bullock doesn't really seem to be that special on the field, but the last two years, a lot of Titans fans have sworn that Bullock is All-Pro caliber just like Haynesworth. Since I don't get to see too many Tennessee games, I stay relatively quiet.

Ahem... Bulluck. ;)

The past two years, Bulluck and Thornton have been used in coverage. Our DL has been so good, that the DEF never had to blitz. The Front 4 could stop the run, and generate adequate pressure. To spice things up, a Safety or NB would blitz...maybe even the MIKE. So if our OLB's make a play, it's in coverage.

I don't think any Titans fans think Bulluck and Haynesworth are on the same plane, caliber-wise. Now, I've argued a while ago that over the past 5 seasons at the time, Bulluck had better statistical averages from the SLB spot than LB's like Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, and London Fletcher. But I don't even think Bulluck is a DPOY caliber player like AH is.

It's true - Bulluck is no longer the 140-tackle dynamo like he was from '02-'06. He's 31 years old now, has a much better supporting cast on the DL, and is often dropped into zone-coverage, all which kinda leads to him not being around the ball every play. But, he's still a very good 4-3 OLB, and I think he's seen as that. When people make their "Top 10" LB lists, Bulluck doesn't usually make those lists, and only will if they sub-categorize by scheme. So I believe he's no longer seen as a Pro Bowl caliber LB anymore, especially as his tackle numbers have been below 100 tot's the past two years.

Nevertheless, I always leave impressed when I research Bulluck. He's started 112 straight starts, and even though he's in his 30's, I think he can have a career length similar to Derrick Brooks.

katnip
03-18-2009, 05:28 PM
I would say Bryant McKinnie. I would also say Darren Sharper when he was on the team. People underestimated just how bad he has become. I will also say Ryan Cook because I am sure people who play Madden and see his rating actually think he is decent.

C'mon.. Bryant's from the U, why hate?? Seriously though.. How would you rate his pass blocking ability to his run blocking?? I know/think he's a beast n the run game..

Malaka
03-18-2009, 05:49 PM
That is a completely ridiculous statement. In 2008 only 16 DEs had more than 6 sacks. There are 64 starting DEs in the league. So really 75% of starting DEs didn't get more than 6 sacks. I'm not going to take the time to find out the averages, but I'm sure more than 50% of starting DEs average 6 sacks or less.

Are your stats including 3-4 DEs, if so then your argument is a bit flawed, because 5-8 sacks for 3-4 DE is excellent, but pretty average/below average for a 4-3 DE.

If it doesn't include 3-4 DEs you're right.

BufFan71
03-18-2009, 05:55 PM
Donte Whitner

the decider13
03-18-2009, 07:02 PM
A 2nd one I forgot about is Daniel Graham...I don't think that anyone really confuses him for being that good anymore. But people used to think he was good.

I think

stephenson86
03-18-2009, 07:05 PM
Definitely, he tends to run like 10 2-3 yard runs and then break a 60 yarder. So, his stats look nice but it's not like he's dropping 4-5 yard runs each touch.

didnt barry sanders have the most rushes for loss in nfl history and have a habit of doing just what peterson does?...end of the day peterson is a game changer more so than any other back in the league...a case could be made but it would be utterly stupid

SuperMcGee
03-18-2009, 07:07 PM
I'll say Alex Brown, and this goes to some Bears fans as well. Being great in run defense is nice, but no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year, even with a rotation. There's a reason the staff wanted to replace him with Mark Anderson.

Oh you would just love Chris Kelsay. Cut that 6 in half, maybe.

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 07:09 PM
I can't believe anyone would think Marcus Spears is good. HE gets virtually no push every play, and though he's not asked to make consistent plays, he could take it upon himself to move his fat ass every once in a while and get a damn sack or QB pressure or something .

General Zod
03-18-2009, 07:13 PM
Like the sig Zod.

many thanks :-)

CC.SD
03-18-2009, 08:06 PM
Nick Hardwick has a rep for being a Pro Bowl center but honestly the guy gets blown up and shoved deep into the backfield a lot. Like, a lot.

bearsfan_51
03-18-2009, 08:10 PM
That is a completely ridiculous statement. In 2008 only 16 DEs had more than 6 sacks. There are 64 starting DEs in the league. So really 75% of starting DEs didn't get more than 6 sacks. I'm not going to take the time to find out the averages, but I'm sure more than 50% of starting DEs average 6 sacks or less.
As someone already stated, not all systems are created equally. In a 3-4, the OLB is essentially the pass-rusher extraordinary, not the DE, so your stats are terribly misleading. I'll grant you that 6 sacks is probably about average, but in a Tampa 2 you can't be an average pass rusher. Perhaps Alex could and should be starting for other teams in the league, but I think we can do better.

Not to mention that he's never done better than 7 sacks in a season, so it's not like he's occasionally average, he's across the board average.

bearsfan_51
03-18-2009, 08:11 PM
I'm not getting how he's not an all-around great player, what areas would he have to improve in to be considered an all around great back?
He fumbles WAY too much. He's injury prone. He, as Brent pointed out, is not a consistant ground gainer, and his pass protection is average at best.

Again, he's a tremendous back, and one of my favorite NFL players, but he's not the complete package.

GB12
03-18-2009, 08:50 PM
As someone already stated, not all systems are created equally. In a 3-4, the OLB is essentially the pass-rusher extraordinary, not the DE, so your stats are terribly misleading. I'll grant you that 6 sacks is probably about average, but in a Tampa 2 you can't be an average pass rusher. Perhaps Alex could and should be starting for other teams in the league, but I think we can do better.

Not to mention that he's never done better than 7 sacks in a season, so it's not like he's occasionally average, he's across the board average.
You said "no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year" so I included all defensive ends.

If you adjust it to just 4-3 DEs it becomes 13 out of 42 DEs. So 70% of 4-3 DEs did not get more than 6 sacks.

I was only arguing that statement, not anthing specific to Alex Brown.

Maybe you just didn't word it the way you meant it, but as that reads it is horribly wrong.

LonghornsLegend
03-18-2009, 09:22 PM
He fumbles WAY too much. He's injury prone. He, as Brent pointed out, is not a consistant ground gainer, and his pass protection is average at best.

Again, he's a tremendous back, and one of my favorite NFL players, but he's not the complete package.

Injury prone? If he is, then so is Portis, Bush, Steven Jackson, and any other NFL RB that has had one or more injury before...That makes no sense, you can't call him injury prone just because he had one injury.


Not a consistent ground gainer? That seems like nitpicking to me more then anything, again were talking about being a great all around back, if the best you can find is 'not a consistent ground gainer' as a reason then that just shows how many areas he is solid in.


Besides were not talking about Reggie Bush here who, like he is losing yardage 3 plays then busting the 4th for 60 yards.

I don't even consider that a knock anyway unless a guy is going backwards which Peterson never is, that's like penalizing him because he can score from anywhere on the field and saying he would be better if he consistently grinded out 130 yards.

The Legend
03-18-2009, 09:23 PM
Tommie Harris. He had a horrible first half and was inconsistent all season.

When you get big contacts thats what happens. Happened to Aaron Schobel and it might happen to Haynesworth

etk
03-18-2009, 09:43 PM
Jeremy Trueblood - Bucs fans seem to think Donald Penn is the problem on our offensive line that needs fixing. Trueblood is a liability in every sense. Chucky agrees I see.

Gaines Adams - Supremely talented athlete and surprisingly solid against the run, but he has almost no pass rush moves or feel for the position. He's like the Michael Johnson of the NFL.

ZOMGitsjosh
03-18-2009, 09:47 PM
Julius Peppers.

yourfavestoner
03-18-2009, 11:19 PM
John Henderson/Rashean Mathis

awfullyquiet
03-19-2009, 04:54 AM
You said "no starting defensive end should ever average 6 sacks a year" so I included all defensive ends.

If you adjust it to just 4-3 DEs it becomes 13 out of 42 DEs. So 70% of 4-3 DEs did not get more than 6 sacks.

I was only arguing that statement, not anthing specific to Alex Brown.

Maybe you just didn't word it the way you meant it, but as that reads it is horribly wrong.


BF51 really just dislikes alex brown.

The fact is, over the past two years that i've been here, bf51 has criticized, and what has alex brown done? got 10 sacks last year. if tommie harris didn't play like he was an incompetent moron, i'd maybe believe they'd get another few on the line... but, alex brown and marcus harrison were the only two bright spots on the team.

now.

"he's not that good"

ryan grant.

i cannot fathom why people in green bay praised him as being amazing, a truly fantastic story... but. really. he's just looked crappy, he's been crappy, and he has a crappy line... i think i was the only person trying my hardest to drive up the price of ryan grant last year in auctions... because i knew he'd fail.

The Unseen
03-19-2009, 08:29 AM
John Henderson/Rashean Mathis

we think alike

diabsoule
03-19-2009, 08:29 AM
Charles Grant and Will Smith

ccB
03-19-2009, 08:33 AM
This would of been an easy question had Bart Scott been with the team still but he's gone now some um....I guess the answer would be Todd Heap? But I am not sure if people still think he is good or not.

coordinator0
03-19-2009, 09:09 AM
This would of been an easy question had Bart Scott been with the team still but he's gone now some um....I guess the answer would be Todd Heap? But I am not sure if people still think he is good or not.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this. I think Heap just doesn't have the "go get it at any cost" mentality anymore, and his production has declined because of it.

killxswitch
03-19-2009, 09:30 AM
If people still think Joseph Addai is a great player, then I'd pick him.

Bob Sanders is a possibility but that has more to do with his injuries. When he is healthy he is that good.

I can't think of too many widely overrated Colts players. Maybe I just don't have a good idea of the national perception.

bearsfan_51
03-19-2009, 09:55 AM
BF51 really just dislikes alex brown.

The fact is, over the past two years that i've been here, bf51 has criticized, and what has alex brown done? got 10 sacks last year. if tommie harris didn't play like he was an incompetent moron, i'd maybe believe they'd get another few on the line... but, alex brown and marcus harrison were the only two bright spots on the team.
Sometimes I wonder if you even watch sports.


http://www.nfl.com/players/alexbrown/profile?id=BRO246330

Show me where he got 10 sacks. He got 6, just like always.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 11:50 AM
Im going to say some names that might surprise some Giant fans.

1. Steve Smith - he's a great slot WR and nice possession WR, but he can't really get open on his own. He can find cracks in coverage and get open, but he won't ever get open downfield, and he can't get open when you focus extra attention on him. When Burress went down and teams put a CB on Smith and shaded the inside post/slant routes with a LB in zone, Smith struggled getting open.

2. David Diehl - tremendous run blocker, but painfully poor against speed rushers as a Left Tackle. He's a PB caliber LG, but as a LT he's average. Again, great against the run, but his pass protection holds back our offense.

3. Fred Robbins - i know a lot of people think he's underrated, but I think he's more the product of being a DT with fast feet who benefits playing next to our DEs. With Canty and Bernard now on the team, we'll realize how average Robbins really was when we see how productive those 2 will be this upcoming year.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 12:12 PM
Players outside of my team:

1. Felix Jones - i think the hype he has received is uncalled for. Yes, he has 9 YPC, but he ran it 30 times! I mean come on. And he already got injured. So theres durability issues. The guy is a home run threat, but he was the 4th option on a powerhouse Dallas offense that most teams didn't account for. Put him on Tennessee and he doesn't do what Chris Johnson did. Johnson was THE offense of the Titans, and still beasted it. I don't think Jones is that type of player. Im not saying he can't be good, but he's not going to be nearly as good as fans are hoping for.

2. Ronnie Brown - i just don't think he's that good. Poor vision.

3. Asante Samuel - The guy can pick it off, but he leaves a lot to be desired as a true shut down corner. And he got shut down CB money.

4. Julius Peppers - Just never saw it with him. Inconsistent motor, lack of pass rush moves, no leadership, just untapped potential.

5. Will Smith - Fell off the planet

6. Cortland Finnegan - he's not as good as people make him out to be. He greatly benefits playing in a 2 deep safety system with 2 incredible safeties. He can be too aggressive for his own good sometimes. Great corner, but not Top 5.

Kase1
03-19-2009, 12:17 PM
Im going to say some names that might surprise some Giant fans.

1. Steve Smith - he's a great slot WR and nice possession WR, but he can't really get open on his own. He can find cracks in coverage and get open, but he won't ever get open downfield, and he can't get open when you focus extra attention on him. When Burress went down and teams put a CB on Smith and shaded the inside post/slant routes with a LB in zone, Smith struggled getting open.

2. David Diehl - tremendous run blocker, but painfully poor against speed rushers as a Left Tackle. He's a PB caliber LG, but as a LT he's average. Again, great against the run, but his pass protection holds back our offense.

3. Fred Robbins - i know a lot of people think he's underrated, but I think he's more the product of being a DT with fast feet who benefits playing next to our DEs. With Canty and Bernard now on the team, we'll realize how average Robbins really was when we see how productive those 2 will be this upcoming year.

WOW, im suprised you listed The Slot Machine and Freddy Bear, I usually consider them underated

If I had 2 say some players on our team itd be Hixon (at WR), Diehl as well, and thats pretty much it

bearsfan_51
03-19-2009, 12:18 PM
3. Asante Samuel - The guy can pick it off, but he leaves a lot to be desired as a true shut down corner. And he got shut down CB money.
The Redskins gave Deangelo Hall 6 years-55 million (Samuel got 6 years 57 million). And that's after the Oakland disaster.

Now THAT'S crazy.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 12:20 PM
The Redskins gave Deangelo Hall 6 years-55 million (Samuel got 6 years 57 million). And that's after the Oakland disaster.

In the past two years, Hall has received almost 50 million dollars in guaranteed money.


Now THAT'S crazy.

yeah, that was stupid. although im alone in thinking Hall is going to play well for them. he thrives in man coverage but can't play zone for his life, and they run a heavy man scheme in Washington.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 12:22 PM
WOW, im suprised you listed The Slot Machine and Freddy Bear, I usually consider them underated

If I had 2 say some players on our team itd be Hixon (at WR), Diehl as well, and thats pretty much it

Smith is a good player, but he's just not as good as we think he is. He's a smart shifty possession WR with sure hands. There are a lot of those in this league.

I love the guy, Im just saying he's not as good as we think he is.

As for Freddy, again, I like the guy, but he greatly benefits from our DEs. Just watch what Canty does playing next to Osi and Tuck this year. You'll forget all about Fred Robbins rather quickly.

princefielder28
03-19-2009, 12:33 PM
Nick Collins is overrated; he's a talented player, no doubt, but he's not a Pro Bowl caliber player.

BamaFalcon59
03-19-2009, 01:04 PM
DeAngelo Hall played great once he got to Washington last season. They play a lot of man coverage, similar to Oakland, but have Landry preventing deep balls. For a corner like Hall who likes to gamble, that is very important.

bearsfan_51
03-19-2009, 01:08 PM
DeAngelo Hall played great once he got to Washington last season. They play a lot of man coverage, similar to Oakland, but have Landry preventing deep balls. For a corner like Hall who likes to gamble, that is very important.
I really don't think you should give 55 million dollars to a guy who constantly gets beat deep. Give Landry the money.

BamaFalcon59
03-19-2009, 01:11 PM
I really don't think you should give 55 million dollars to a guy who constantly gets beat deep. Give Landry the money.

I think they should have held out on the big contract, but I think he deserves it more so than a player like Asante Samuel or Nate Clements. When Hall is on his game he not only can lock down receivers, but is also one of the biggest playmakers in the league at cornerback.

I would have given him a one year deal and then payed him if he performed. But he is the kind of CB who can warrent that money in that scheme. He and Landry could form something special.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 01:12 PM
Hall is just extremely undisciplined. He had years where he was lights out, then the Oakland fiasco ruined him.

He wasn't worth the money, but I think he's going to be a good player for them. the skins defense as a whole is going to be really good next year. its slept on.

i just hope they don't draft a DE.

etk
03-19-2009, 02:01 PM
I think they should have held out on the big contract, but I think he deserves it more so than a player like Asante Samuel or Nate Clements. When Hall is on his game he not only can lock down receivers, but is also one of the biggest playmakers in the league at cornerback.

I would have given him a one year deal and then payed him if he performed. But he is the kind of CB who can warrent that money in that scheme. He and Landry could form something special.

I agree. I think they overpaid, but Clements and Samuel don't even have the talent to EVER warrant that kind of money. I'd rather give it to Hall and support him well.

LonghornsLegend
03-19-2009, 02:05 PM
Players outside of my team:

1. Felix Jones - i think the hype he has received is uncalled for. Yes, he has 9 YPC, but he ran it 30 times! I mean come on. And he already got injured. So theres durability issues. The guy is a home run threat, but he was the 4th option on a powerhouse Dallas offense that most teams didn't account for. Put him on Tennessee and he doesn't do what Chris Johnson did. Johnson was THE offense of the Titans, and still beasted it. I don't think Jones is that type of player. Im not saying he can't be good, but he's not going to be nearly as good as fans are hoping for.

Felix will make you eat those words, I'll be there to remind you :)

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Felix will make you eat those words, I'll be there to remind you :)

I hope not :p

rockio42
03-19-2009, 02:39 PM
If people still think Joseph Addai is a great player, then I'd pick him.

Bob Sanders is a possibility but that has more to do with his injuries. When he is healthy he is that good.

I can't think of too many widely overrated Colts players. Maybe I just don't have a good idea of the national perception.

What happened this year and part of last year, he seemed to just drop off

Shiver
03-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Hall is just extremely undisciplined. He had games where he was lights out, then the Oakland fiasco ruined him.

He wasn't worth the money, but I think he's going to be a good player for them. the skins defense as a whole is going to be really good next year. its slept on.

i just hope they don't draft a DE.


Fixed for accuracy. He never, ever, had a complete season where he was consistent.

LookItsAlDavis
03-19-2009, 05:58 PM
Derrick Burgess. He's riding the success from one good year. (I know, he can't stay healthy, but it's getting out of hand.)