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StickSkills
03-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Here's a note that was on Fightonstate.com

Williams ran between a 4.37 and 4.41 in the 40 and felt much better than at the Combine. He said he "just needed some of Mom's chicken noodle soup."

Brent
03-18-2009, 03:18 PM
what was the running surface?/we already have a pro-day thread.

Crickett
03-18-2009, 03:21 PM
what was the running surface?

A moving sidewalk is my guess.

Saints-Tigers
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Surprise surprise, he did something right for once.

underscore
03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Note that Jordan Norwood's 40 time was only marginally faster at Pro Day, so maybe Williams really was sick.

kalbears13
03-18-2009, 05:07 PM
He's a lock for a Campbell's Chunky Soup commercial. Look out McNabb.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 06:33 PM
That's the Derrick Williams I remember, the kid was born with jets.

Williams probably earned himself at least $ 1 million extra come draft day!!

BeerBaron
03-18-2009, 06:47 PM
I'd still rather have Deon Butler than Williams if someone asked me to pick between the two.

Williams has been riding potential alone for years now...it'd be real nice if he like, recognized some of that...

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 06:57 PM
It's not like he can still play....He still has marginal production and is not really explosive on the field

JRTPlaya21
03-18-2009, 07:27 PM
Give me Butler.

Jonny
03-18-2009, 07:48 PM
That's his real time, but wasn't he being touted as a 4.3 guy?

IMO, he's just a 40 guy. Not much of an actual receiver.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 07:55 PM
Whatever, that's game-breaking speed for any player.

Considering he ran a 4.6 at the Combine, I'd say Derrick has recovered nicely.

Still an excellent pro prospect, 2nd to 3rd rounder.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 07:57 PM
Still an excellent pro prospect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/phapster/lol-wut.jpg

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 07:59 PM
Whatever, that's game-breaking speed for any player.

Considering he ran a 4.6 at the Combine, I'd say Derrick has recovered nicely.

Still an excellent pro prospect, 2nd to 3rd rounder.

You clearly don't watch game tape. Part of what goes on into being an excellent pro prospect is solid production (unless your situation is detrimental). Williams had supbar production, while the two other PSU Wrs (Butler and Norwood) were tearing it up.

Secondly, that 4.41 should be taken with a slight skepticism, as it is a pro day time.

Thirdly, he doesn't play with 4.3 speed on gameday, at all..

Lastly, derrick WIlliams is not an Excellent pro prospect in the least bit.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 08:04 PM
You clearly don't watch game tape. Part of what goes on into being an excellent pro prospect is solid production (unless your situation is detrimental). Williams had supbar production, while the two other PSU Wrs (Butler and Norwood) were tearing it up.

Secondly, that 4.41 should be taken with a slight skepticism, as it is a pro day time.

Thirdly, he doesn't play with 4.3 speed on gameday, at all..

Lastly, derrick WIlliams is not an Excellent pro prospect in the least bit.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/excellent.jpg

You saved me the time of typing my famous Derrick Williams rant. Thanks!

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 08:06 PM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/excellent.jpg

You saved me the time of typing my famous Derrick Williams rant. Thanks!

you are welcome....He is a bum

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 08:11 PM
So don't draft him, just because you feel Williams is an UFA doesn't make it so.

And there is no discrepancy with Derrick's 40 time. He ran a 4.28 coming out of HS.

If any time is off, it's the one at the Combine. The kid said he had the flu, and his time at PSU's pro day verifies that.

Williams had "sub par" production based on expectations he would be one of the most electrifying players in college football, which clearly he wasn't.

Still, he was a vital player on PSU specials and offense, and has won more than his fare share of games throughout his Nittany Lion career.

If you don't think Derrick Williams could carve out for himself a nice pro career as a kick returner and slot receiver, more power to you.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 08:13 PM
Williams had "sub par" production based on expectations he would be one of the most electrifying players in college football, which clearly he wasn't.

No, he had sub-par production based on the fact that his numbers sucked, that's all.

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 08:18 PM
So don't draft him, just because you feel Williams is an UFA doesn't make it so.

And there is no discrepancy with Derrick's 40 time. He ran a 4.28 coming out of HS.

If any time is off, it's the one at the Combine. The kid said he had the flu, and his time at PSU's pro day verifies that.

Williams had "sub par" production based on expectations he would be one of the most electrifying players in college football, which clearly he wasn't.

Still, he was a vital player on PSU specials and offense, and has won more than his fare share of games throughout his Nittany Lion career.

If you don't think Derrick Williams could carve out for himself a nice pro career as a kick returner and slot receiver, more power to you.

1.High School times mean jack diddly squat. Rivals has an excellent article out showing the discrepancy between high school times and combine times (As did Sprots Illustrated in the 90s), and they are huge. Most high school coaches boost their players 40 times to make them more appealing to colleges and help them have more options when signing day rolls around.

2.Once again, that is a pro day time, and pro day times tend to be trumped up slightly as they are ran on fast tracks to help the players out.

3.Williams had sub par production, because despite the fact that he was the guy since his freshman year, he still got out produced by two other guys who were supposedly not as talented as he is. That's not what an excellent prospect does, especially not at the WR position.

4.Williams contributed, no doubt, to the successes of Penn State, but he was not this explosive, all american or all conference talent, at all. He was just another guy, who was getting overshadowed by two other guys during his career.

5.When you are projected to have a nice career as a slot guy and a kick returner, you are not an "Excellent Pro Prospect".

Smokey Joe
03-18-2009, 08:18 PM
I think he will make at the very least a decent pro.

I believe this 40 time, give or take a few tenths.

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 08:20 PM
I believe this 40 time, take a few tenths.

fixed it for you

Smokey Joe
03-18-2009, 08:24 PM
fixed it for you
He was sick during the combine, and everyone knows he's fast. He might not play as fast in pads, but I have little doubt he can a 4.4 flat in shorts

WAREhouse
03-18-2009, 08:27 PM
He was sick during the combine, and everyone knows he's fast. He might not play as fast in pads, but I have little doubt he can a 4.4 flat in shorts

agreed

f

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 08:34 PM
Derrick ran that 4.28 at a NIKE Camp at UVA his junior year in HS, it wasn't an inflated bogus time posted by a HS coach to elevate his favorite player.

And to me WAREhouse it appears you're confusing "elite" prospect and "talented" pro prospect. Derrick Williams has special tools that generally predict success at the next level; hands, quickness, elusiveness, decent size, top end speed.

That doesn't mean he'll be a star in the NFL, but it does suggest he should be a solid contributor in any number of roles on an NFL team.

Thumper
03-18-2009, 08:40 PM
I think he will make an average #4 WR a guy who might make the occasional big play but other than that he will do nothing except for maybe return kicks. I think his receiving skills are highly overrated and I don't see him improving and growing to be a #1 or #2. Just an average weapon ala a rich man's Greg Lewis.

Smokey Joe
03-18-2009, 08:46 PM
I could see him being very similar to Breaston and Royal in that he never really did much in college, but has become a successful NFL player. Now, by successful, I mean KR/PR and a slot receiver, or something along those lines.

ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 09:05 PM
I don't see a natural receiver with Williams. I see a guy who struggles locating the ball and doesn't catch it with his hands. His speed doesn't really translate that well to the field despite everyone knowing he's faster than the 4.6 he ran at the combine. Doesn't scare me at all the way a Percy Harvin type would despite the fact they're damn near identical from a speed perspective. He just never really developed into the playmaker he was supposed to be and I really don't get why anyone thinks he has a shot at producing at the NFL level when he was the third best receiver on his team in college, a team that desperately needed a bit of electricity. It's not like he was underutilized either. He was given his shot.

There's a ton of guys out there who can run 4.3. Not all of them are seen as playmakers and threats like Williams is. The only difference is that he has the benefit of playing in a big time conference and people are giving far too much weight to four year old hype.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 09:28 PM
Um no, there aren't a "ton" of guys out there who run 4.3.

Call it hype, but early on in his career at Penn State, Derrick's presence alone often singled up Norwood and Butler in pass coverage.

No one that I know argues whether Williams can make plays, but based on his press clippings, he was expected to make more than he did.

Still an NFL caliber talent who will be drafted, IMO.
After that, it's up to him.

ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 09:50 PM
Um no, there aren't a "ton" of guys out there who run 4.3.
There's a lot more than are currently blazing it up in the NFL. What makes Williams any different?

Call it hype, but early on in his career at Penn State, Derrick's presence alone often singled up Norwood and Butler in pass coverage.
That was before teams figured out they could pretty much put they're nickel on him and be set.

No one that I know argues whether Williams can make plays, but based on his press clippings, he was expected to make more than he did.
Show the the plays. He was decent on special teams(not even as good as reported) but never as a receiver. Hell, most of the time he would just catch three yard outs or drags and decide to fall down. If he's such a playmaker, where are the 25 yard gains on those plays? Where's the burst of speed after the catch? If he's not going to run routes or track the ball he damn well better make something happen after the catch.

Still an NFL caliber talent who will be drafted, IMO.
After that, it's up to him.
It would be kind of silly for anyone to argue that he'll go undrafted, but it's equally silly to put Williams in even top twenty receiver category and that's being a bit generous.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 10:49 PM
Why so much hate for D Will?

You have a negative spin on his entire college career!!

We'll see how his NFL fortunes play out, but for now, we'll have to agree to disagree.

psulion21
03-18-2009, 11:03 PM
deon butler is the better wide receiver but derrick williams still has that potential to be a playmaker and teams will be willing to take that risk my guess he goes early to mid third maybe even late second

Sniper
03-18-2009, 11:07 PM
Why so much hate for D Will?

You have a negative spin on his entire college career!!

We'll see how his NFL fortunes play out, but for now, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because he's not ******* good. Where are these "big plays" you're talking about? Williams sucks. 1 career 100 yard game (Temple), barely any TDs in the receiving game, brutal yards per catch average, few big plays in the passing game. He's....not...good. Get it through your head. He sucks.

gpngc
03-18-2009, 11:15 PM
Because he's not ******* good. Where are these "big plays" you're talking about? Williams sucks. 1 career 100 yard game (Temple), barely any TDs in the receiving game, brutal yards per catch average, few big plays in the passing game. He's....not...good. Get it through your head. He sucks.

Some are on youtube. He's damn quick.

2 kick return TD, 3 punt return TD, 9 receiving TD, 8 rushing TD.

Can't argue he's a polished receiver by any stretch, but he's certainly worth a relatively high draft pick based on special teams value and potential alone.

His #s are fairly similar to DHB.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 11:15 PM
5 receptions of 25+ yards in the past two seasons. Damn, what a playmaker. 15 players in the Big 10 had more than that this season alone, including both of the other PSU WRs. He had 3 catches of 25+ yards this year. Greg Mathews of Michigan had that many, and he MIGHT crack a 4.6. Some other average to below-average receivers in the Big 10 who had more explosive plays than Williams did this year.

Martavious Odoms, Brian Hartline, Sam McGuffie, Desmond Tardy, Blair White, Ross Lane, Andy Brodell and the list goes on...

If Williams hadn't been the top recruit in the country, no one would give a **** about him.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 11:16 PM
Some are on youtube. He's damn quick.

2 kick return TD, 3 punt return TD, 9 receiving TD, 8 rushing TD.

Can't argue he's a polished receiver by any stretch, but he's certainly worth a relatively high draft pick based on special teams value and potential alone.

In four years. 22 TD in four friggin' years. For as much as PSU tried to force-feed him the ball, that's absurdly pathetic.

gpngc
03-18-2009, 11:21 PM
In four years. 22 TD in four friggin' years. For as much as PSU tried to force-feed him the ball, that's absurdly pathetic.

Pathetic? Probably not. He hasn't performed like a first round pick, but his play hasn't been pathetic... What 2nd-3rd round WRs scored 22 TDs in their college careers?

Sniper
03-18-2009, 11:24 PM
Pathetic? Probably not. He hasn't performed like a first round pick, but his play hasn't been pathetic... What 2nd-3rd round WRs scored 22 TDs in their college careers?

Not many. Then again, not many had the luxury of walking into a starting job as a true freshman and having touches force-fed to them.

gpngc
03-18-2009, 11:35 PM
Not many. Then again, not many had the luxury of walking into a starting job as a true freshman and having touches force-fed to them.

He returned just 13 kicks for 274 yds as a freshman with no touchdowns but a 56-yard long.

As a freshman he played in just seven games with Michael Robinson at QB and managed four touchdowns.

You can look at being "force-fed" as a negative but what does that say about the coaching staff's confidence in the player? And his presence did help the other receivers (and the team). People forget that commanding coverage is a huge part of the passing game and coming around for the fake end-around can be huge in the running game because the backside end is forced to stay home.

He also suffered two years playing with Anthony Morelli at QB... makes the career totals seem even more impressive:confused:

Sniper
03-18-2009, 11:40 PM
As a freshman he played in just seven games with Michael Robinson at QB and managed four touchdowns.

The same Michael Robinson that won Big 10 MVP?

You can look at being "force-fed" as a negative but what does that say about the coaching staff's confidence in the player?

It's high for no particular reason besides his lofty recruiting ranking.

And his presence did help the other receivers (and the team). People forget that commanding coverage is a huge part of the passing game and coming around for the fake end-around can be huge in the running game because the backside end is forced to stay home.

Yeah, I bet teams were shaking in their boots at the thought of Derrick Williams. You still haven't given me a legit reason why he didn't produce.

He also suffered two years playing with Anthony Morelli at QB... makes the career totals seem even more impressive:confused:

Yeah, it does. Oh no, wait, it doesn't since both Butler and Norwood still blew his numbers out of the water.

JonIH87
03-19-2009, 12:00 AM
Well now.

Here we go again.

Tom Brady sat behind the likes of Brian Griese and Drew Henson in college.

He was VASTLY outperformed by other notable 2000 draftee QB's like Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, and Tee Martin.

Collegiate production is nice to have, but it does NOT directly translate to NFL success.

thule
03-19-2009, 12:04 AM
Not trying to jump in here...but Williams was a dynamic player as a freshman before he was hurt...injuries have been his biggest problem...and probably the reason why he isn't an elite nfl prospect like he was in college. He was injured every year if I'm not mistaken.

Crickett
03-19-2009, 12:05 AM
Well now.

Here we go again.

Tom Brady sat behind the likes of Brian Griese and Drew Henson in college.


And opposed to Derrick Williams who was on the field and just didn't do very well. zing

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Well now.

Here we go again.

Tom Brady sat behind the likes of Brian Griese and Drew Henson in college.

He was VASTLY outperformed by other notable 2000 draftee QB's like Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, and Tee Martin.

Collegiate production is nice to have, but it does NOT directly translate to NFL success.

I hope you didn't just compare Tom Brady to Derrick Williams. If anything, Williams is the Drew Henson here. Tom Brady was a damn fine starting quarterback in college. He sat behind Griese and split time with Henson because, like Williams, Henson was a big time recruit who was given every opportunity to succeed. Brady wasn't.

Not trying to jump in here...but Williams was a dynamic player as a freshman before he was hurt...injuries have been his biggest problem...and probably the reason why he isn't an elite nfl prospect like he was in college. He was injured every year if I'm not mistaken.

I'll admit I did look at him as a Percy Harvin type guy after his freshman season. The problem is he just got worse from there. Besides injuries, he just hasn't matured at all as a receiver and his special teams value is overblown.

derza222
03-19-2009, 12:11 AM
I'd still rather have Deon Butler than Williams if someone asked me to pick between the two.

Williams has been riding potential alone for years now...it'd be real nice if he like, recognized some of that...

How do Butler's hands compare to Norwood's? I remember watching Norwood catch the ball in one of those skills competitions, obviously not the best spot to judge but he was truly a natural catching the football, just effortlessly plucking it out of the air. Anybody have an idea of where either lands? Maybe 3-5 for Butler and 5-7/UDFA for Norwood?

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 12:16 AM
Pathetic? Probably not. He hasn't performed like a first round pick, but his play hasn't been pathetic... What 2nd-3rd round WRs scored 22 TDs in their college careers?

How many receivers projected in the second to third round have 9 receiving touchdowns in their careers? If he's a return specialist, then he deserves to be drafted like one.

How do Butler's hands compare to Norwood's? I remember watching Norwood catch the ball in one of those skills competitions, obviously not the best spot to judge but he was truly a natural catching the football, just effortlessly plucking it out of the air. Anybody have an idea of where either lands? Maybe 3-5 for Butler and 5-7/UDFA for Norwood?

Probably about right. Out of those two, Norwood has the better hands. Butler has good hands but he looses concentration from time to time. DraftGuys did a really good video profile on him.

UTPATS
03-19-2009, 12:39 AM
Because he's not ******* good. Where are these "big plays" you're talking about? Williams sucks. 1 career 100 yard game (Temple), barely any TDs in the receiving game, brutal yards per catch average, few big plays in the passing game. He's....not...good. Get it through your head. He sucks.

Matt Cassell was a HELL of a college QB!

Just because a guy doesn't put up numbers in college, doesn't mean he won't produce in the pros. It's a different game and some guys just work better in that environment. If he was sooooo terrible, then why are most of the guys that are getting paid to analyze prospects think he can be a pretty decent guy in the pros. Will he be a #1 stud and a consistent pro bowler, probably not, but a serviceable #2 who can pull 800-1200 yards and a half a dozen TDs would be just fine with me. Especially with the added bonus of his special teams play.

Is he a ***** bad receiver, no. Is he a bum, no. Will he be a good/average/bad pro, we will just have to wait and see.

I like what I saw during the senior bowl practices, the game film I have seen and his recent workouts. That's just my opinion on him.

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 12:49 AM
Matt Cassell was a HELL of a college QB!
Matt Cassel never had a chance to prove himself. Derrick Williams did and he fell flat on his backside.

Just because a guy doesn't put up numbers in college, doesn't mean he won't produce in the pros.
No, but it's usually a pretty good sign.

It's a different game and some guys just work better in that environment.It's the same game, just faster. Since speed is the only real tool Williams has, that doesn't bode particularly well for him. The pro game doesn't exactly cater to guys who run poor routes, have bad general football awareness and who don't make big plays.

If he was sooooo terrible, then why are most of the guys that are getting paid to analyze prospects think he can be a pretty decent guy in the pros.
Well, mostly it's because everyone else thinks he can. Derrick Williams was a massive deal in high school. He carried that into college and was also supposed to break out next year. The problem is he never did and he only got worse. He's being looked at as mostly a return guy at this stage. He's just getting entirely too much hype for what he does based on his name.

Will he be a #1 stud and a consistent pro bowler, probably not, but a serviceable #2 who can pull 800-1200 yards and a half a dozen TDs would be just fine with me. Especially with the added bonus of his special teams play.
How can you even begin to expect Derrick Williams to produce a thousand yard season when he couldn't even produce half of that most years? That's a massive leap for faith to make for a guy who just didn't do a hell of a lot in college. Is it possible for a player to make a jump like that? Yeah. We see it all the time. But you don't assume they can.

UTPATS
03-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Matt Cassel never had a chance to prove himself. Derrick Williams did and he fell flat on his backside.

Cassell had a chance but couldn't win a job.

No, but it's usually a pretty good sign.
It works both ways. Tons of yard in college doesn't mean a great pro and few yards in college doesn't mean bad pro. You have to look at the person, skill set, etc., that's what scouts get paid for. If it was on stats alone, why even bother watching them in person, just read the statistic page online!

It's the same game, just faster. Since speed is the only real tool Williams has, that doesn't bode particularly well for him. The pro game doesn't exactly cater to guys who run poor routes, have bad general football awareness and who don't make big plays.
The game is not the same in college and pro level, especially in today's college format. What I saw in position drills and one-on-ones, Williams ran crisp routes, excelled out of breaks, caught the ball exceptionally well. There are plenty of WRs in the NFL who don't make big plays every play. It doesn't mean they can't be serviceable.


Well, mostly it's because everyone else thinks he can. Derrick Williams was a massive deal in high school. He carried that into college and was also supposed to break out next year. The problem is he never did and he only got worse. He's being looked at as mostly a return guy at this stage. He's just getting entirely too much hype for what he does based on his name.
I can give a rat's butt what he was in High School. I haven't heard of a lot of hype on the guy, but he certainly isn't a freaking BUM. I liked what I have seen thus far and would love to have him.


How can you even begin to expect Derrick Williams to produce a thousand yard season when he couldn't even produce half of that most years? That's a massive leap for faith to make for a guy who just didn't do a hell of a lot in college. Is it possible for a player to make a jump like that? Yeah. We see it all the time. But you don't assume they can.
That's what scouting is...you have to assume things based on what you see. Stats don't mean a whole heck of a lot to me. They just don't. What matters to me is his ability to do the things required to be a solid NFL player. From everything I have seen, if he stays healthy, he will be able to be a solid guy. It might take 3 years, as it does most WRs, but he will be a decent WR in the NFL. That's all that I am saying, and that is just my opinion.


He had very similar stats to Eddie Royal, which is a guy he is compared to a lot. I would love to have guy like that on my team.

Royal-
SR Year: 33 Rec. 496 Yards 15.0 Avg. 4 TDs
JR Year: 31 Rec. 497 Yards 16.0 Avg. 3 TDs

Williams-
SR Year: 44 Rec. 485 Yards 11.0 Avg. 4 TDs
JR Year: 55 Rec. 529 Yards 9.6 Avg. 3 TDs

This is just my take on the guy.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 10:00 AM
I hope you didn't just compare Tom Brady to Derrick Williams. If anything, Williams is the Drew Henson here. Tom Brady was a damn fine starting quarterback in college. He sat behind Griese and split time with Henson because, like Williams, Henson was a big time recruit who was given every opportunity to succeed. Brady wasn't.

You're right. Brady was 20-5 as a starter and won a great game against Alabama in his last college game, but not until Henson peaced out.

I'll admit I did look at him as a Percy Harvin type guy after his freshman season. The problem is he just got worse from there. Besides injuries, he just hasn't matured at all as a receiver and his special teams value is overblown.

I've never seen a "deep threat" with such poor yards per catch and explosive plays numbers. It's mind-boggling. I've never watched Derrick Williams and said, "man, that guy is amazing." In college, he was just another guy. There is nothing that makes him a good prospect. He's soft, can't run routes, has poor hands, poor production, is a mediocre blocker and just sucks in general.

Honestly, if he hadn't been such a high-profile recruit, would you even know his name?

captainjack27
03-19-2009, 10:01 AM
I think he will make an average #4 WR a guy who might make the occasional big play but other than that he will do nothing except for maybe return kicks. I think his receiving skills are highly overrated and I don't see him improving and growing to be a #1 or #2. Just an average weapon ala a rich man's Greg Lewis.

That's a bit harsh. I think he can be a #3. He's got some big time speed, he just needs to get on his horse and realize his potential.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 10:02 AM
He had very similar stats to Eddie Royal, which is a guy he is compared to a lot. I would love to have guy like that on my team.

Royal-
SR Year: 33 Rec. 496 Yards 15.0 Avg. 4 TDs
JR Year: 31 Rec. 497 Yards 16.0 Avg. 3 TDs

Williams-
SR Year: 44 Rec. 485 Yards 11.0 Avg. 4 TDs
JR Year: 55 Rec. 529 Yards 9.6 Avg. 3 TDs

This is just my take on the guy.

Royal had exceptional yards per catch averages. 15.0 and 16.0 is wonderful. 9.6? 9 point ******* six? That's ridiculously pathetic. Backup tight ends average better than 9.6. Backup tight ends average right around 11-12 ypc. Deep threat my ass.

captainjack27
03-19-2009, 10:04 AM
Because he's not ******* good. Where are these "big plays" you're talking about? Williams sucks. 1 career 100 yard game (Temple), barely any TDs in the receiving game, brutal yards per catch average, few big plays in the passing game. He's....not...good. Get it through your head. He sucks.

This year? Look at the U of I and wisconsin games. He was the biggest reason they won the game vs. the Illini. He's had flashes here and there, but nothing too special. He's an underacheiver for sure. He does not suck though.

Geo
03-19-2009, 10:39 AM
I don't see a natural receiver with Williams. I see a guy who struggles locating the ball and doesn't catch it with his hands.
I've noticed this as well, especially on deep balls where Williams is awful. Not sure what one can do about that, if it's unnatural. The slot might be his best fit.

nepg
03-19-2009, 10:41 AM
I don't think anyone's expecting more than a special teams and slot receiver (3rd or 4th on the depth chart) out of him... Nothing wrong with that, and he certainly fits the profile. Steve Breaston was more disappointing as a college player, but many (including myself) felt he'd be much better in the role he'd be given in the NFL (which he has been). I see Williams similarly. I like him as a 3rd or 4th round pick.

People are hating on him in this thread as if he's projected to go in the first round or early 2nd. He might go at the end of the 2nd at the very earliest... His YPC is awful though, and that's the primary indicator of a WR whose game tape I probably wouldn't even bother with.
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Sniper
03-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I don't think anyone's expecting more than a special teams and slot receiver (3rd or 4th on the depth chart) out of him... Nothing wrong with that, and he certainly fits the profile. Steve Breaston was more disappointing as a college player, but many (including myself) felt he'd be much better in the role he'd be given in the NFL (which he has been). I see Williams similarly. I like him as a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Steve Breaston also played with guys like Braylon Edwards, Jason Avant, Mario Manningham etc... Steve Breaston had three career 100-yard games, Williams had one. Steve Breaston is the Big 10's all-time career returns leader. Breaston had seven career 200+ apy games. Steve Breaston was a better all-around player in college than Williams was.

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 11:33 AM
I just really don't get where all these excuses for this guy come from. People are giving him WAY too many. He's an unproductive player with speed and some return ability. What makes him any better than a guy like Mike Wallace?

roscoesdad27
03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
i see him as a very similiar prospect to percy harvin...excellent overall offensive weapon.

1) can be a great slot or maybe a #2 reciever.
2) can line up at r.b. as a change of pace/3rd down back 6-10 times per game.
3) can run the wildcat.
4) second best return guy in the draft behind maclin.

I have him going to the 49er's in the third but he could easily move up.

UTPATS
03-19-2009, 01:00 PM
I just really don't get where all these excuses for this guy come from. People are giving him WAY too many. He's an unproductive player with speed and some return ability. What makes him any better than a guy like Mike Wallace?

I like Mike Wallace as well!

gpngc
03-19-2009, 01:54 PM
The same Michael Robinson that won Big 10 MVP?



It's high for no particular reason besides his lofty recruiting ranking.





Yes. The Michael Robinson who never even sniffed the QB position in the NFL and was a great college QB in large part because of his athleticism. How does Michael Robinson produced + Derrick Williams didn't have great receiving #s as a freshman in seven games = Derrick Williams is no good?

You really think the coaching staff had confidence in D. Williams because of his recruiting ranking? Do you really think they care about an internet ranking years later? College coaches don't have any reason to "force-feed" a guy who doesn't deserve it. They'd sit him just as quickly as any team has sat any bust out of high school.

I would guess that the coaches "force-fed" him so much because they liked what they saw in practice and games, not because he was a highly rated recruit.:confused:

Sniper
03-19-2009, 01:58 PM
Yes. The Michael Robinson who never even sniffed the QB position in the NFL and was a great college QB in large part because of his athleticism. How does Michael Robinson produced + Derrick Williams didn't have great receiving #s as a freshman in seven games = Derrick Williams is no good?

Vince Young sucks as an NFL QB. It doesn't mean he wasn't good in college. Robinson was a good college QB.

You really think the coaching staff had confidence in D. Williams because of his recruiting ranking? Do you really think they care about an internet ranking years later?

Yes, I do. Williams has a lot of potential. Perhaps PSU's staff thought they could make him reach it if they gave him more touches.

College coaches don't have any reason to "force-feed" a guy who doesn't deserve it. They'd sit him just as quickly as any team has sat any bust out of high school.

I would guess that the coaches "force-fed" him so much because they liked what they saw in practice and games, not because he was a highly rated recruit.:confused:

You'd think after they realized he sucked in games that they'd stop. Guess not.

Again, I ask this. If he hadn't been such a high-profile recruit, would you even know his name? Doubtful.

gpngc
03-19-2009, 02:08 PM
Royal had exceptional yards per catch averages. 15.0 and 16.0 is wonderful. 9.6? 9 point ******* six? That's ridiculously pathetic. Backup tight ends average better than 9.6. Backup tight ends average right around 11-12 ypc. Deep threat my ass.

He's not a deep threat. He's about as much of a deep threat as Devin Hester was. Maybe he'll get open because he's fast, but it's 50/50 if he'll catch it.

He's a force in the return game, a good direct snap/wildcat option, a threat with the ball on end-arounds and quick screens, and a very mediocre overall receiver.

The upside is, he can still improve. Work hard, get with your receiver coach- this is the type of guy the receiver coach dreams of. You can teach running good routes, improving elusiveness getting in an and out of breaks, you can improve eye-hand coordination- what you can't teach is the athletic ability, speed, strength, and explosiveness he's been blessed with.

In a pool of unknown professional commodities, where every player is a gamble, this type of talent is not a bad idea at all. At the very least you've got a return man.

TimD
03-19-2009, 02:41 PM
another anti Derrick Williams thread, what a surprise...

I think it's been established that everyone here hates the guy as a prospect so let's just wait and see where's he's drafted/how he does.

there's been so many threads like this, it's getting old

vatech=accdomination
03-19-2009, 05:22 PM
Royal was leagues better coming out in every aspect, over the middle, returns, apparently speed, etc. Royal is an incredibly gifted athlete whose size was the only thing that held him back, not a soft player whose skill set is based off his speed.

And please please please, do not bring up Penn State's QB's, Sean Glennon and Bryan Stinespring combined could rape anyone's overall stats.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 05:25 PM
another anti Derrick Williams thread, what a surprise...

It wasn't made as anti-Williams thread. Reading is awesome.

I think it's been established that everyone here hates the guy as a prospect so let's just wait and see where's he's drafted/how he does.

Again, reading is super awesome. A lot of people here like him and enjoy making up excuses for his lack of production.

there's been so many threads like this, it's getting old

Don't read them. I don't control the fact that people don't know how to use the search function.

phlysac
03-19-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm glad he improved from the Combine. You HAVE to look at the 40 time with skepticism, however.

D. Williams - 4.65 (Combine) - 4.37 (Pro-Day) difference of .28
A. Maybin - 4.89 (Combine) - 4.59 (Pro-Day) difference of .30
M. Evans - 4.97 (Combine) - 4.75 (Pro-Day) difference of .22

I'm not saying these guys didn't have time to improve but you have to consider the change in surface.

sbh15
03-19-2009, 07:03 PM
Yeah, the combine track is sort of a constant... I wouldn't really even consider 40 times at Pro Days when evaluating kids.

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 09:49 PM
another anti Derrick Williams thread, what a surprise...

I think it's been established that everyone here hates the guy as a prospect so let's just wait and see where's he's drafted/how he does.

there's been so many threads like this, it's getting old

Actually, I would say most of the people here have a thing for Williams. Certain people are just extremely good at putting him in perspective.

underscore
03-20-2009, 05:57 AM
I'm glad he improved from the Combine. You HAVE to look at the 40 time with skepticism, however.

D. Williams - 4.65 (Combine) - 4.37 (Pro-Day) difference of .28
A. Maybin - 4.89 (Combine) - 4.59 (Pro-Day) difference of .30
M. Evans - 4.97 (Combine) - 4.75 (Pro-Day) difference of .22

I'm not saying these guys didn't have time to improve but you have to consider the change in surface.

But yet Jordan Norwood went from a 4.57 to a 4.55

Geo
03-20-2009, 10:02 AM
I didn't catch what type of surface was used at the Penn State pro day.

For example, I read that the Ohio State prospects performed on FieldTurf but actually ran their 40-yard dashes on AstroTurf. And even then I don't think there was a change in 40-time as drastic as those three PSU players.

Although Williams was dealing with the flu, he had that going against him.

phlysac
03-20-2009, 10:12 AM
But yet Jordan Norwood went from a 4.57 to a 4.55

He still improved.

What's to say he didn't "have the flu"? Regardless, when a player's time decreases .2+ you have to speculate as to the reasons.

brat316
03-20-2009, 11:11 AM
Williams = ST player

captainjack27
03-20-2009, 12:25 PM
He still improved.

What's to say he didn't "have the flu"? Regardless, when a player's time decreases .2+ you have to speculate as to the reasons.


Come on, Derrick williams did not have 4.6 speed. Anyone who has watched this kid for year knows he's got legit speed. Something was definitely wrong. Not saying the surface wasn't better, because at Pro Day's that's usually the case. But I'd say the flu was the majority cause for his poor time.

phlysac
03-20-2009, 02:11 PM
I never said it wasn't. I'm saying that maybe Jordan Norwood "had the flu" which is why his 40 time didn't get .2+ better at his ProDay.

underscore
03-20-2009, 02:54 PM
Williams actually went to the hospital after the combine.

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 03:09 PM
I don't know how a mediocre college slot receiver is expected to be a great #2 or #3 guy in the big league.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-20-2009, 04:33 PM
What I don't get is why so many people on this forum are emotionally invested in downgrading D Will.

IF he busts, so be it. If he's a HOFer, good for him.
The only time I'm really psyched about how well a player performs is if he's suiting up to play for my team.

Otherwise, he's just another guy.

The D Will "supporters" leave open the possibility that he'll be better in the pros than he was in college, which automatically sets off the DWill haters who refuse to accept he'll be anything more than a late training camp this summer.

I don't get it.
I'f I didn't know better, I'd swear Derrick Williams slept with someone's girlfriend on this forum LOL!!

TACKLE
03-20-2009, 04:55 PM
What I don't get is why so many people on this forum are emotionally invested in downgrading D Will.

By people, you mean Sniper.

TitanHope
03-20-2009, 05:20 PM
Yup, I'm pretty sure if Sniper and Derrick Williams ever meet, we'll be hearing about it on the news.

I watched the PSU/Iowa game, and Derrick Williams stood out. But, I don't follow the Big 10, so I can't say much beyond that. It does appear that he had his moments though.

I'll say his niche is a PR/KR who makes his offensive impact with WR-screens and the occasional WR-reverse. Beyond that, who knows.

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 06:59 PM
Derrick Williams isn't important enough to hate, give me a break. If someone calls a prospect on massive faults, they are "a hater."