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View Full Version : Is Aaron Maybin at 252lbs enough to play RE?


BuffaloBillsDraft
03-18-2009, 03:53 PM
I really want this kid to be a Buffalo Bill. I love his work ethic, his never quit attitude, and his explosiveness.

IMO he is the perfect 4-3 RE for our defense, keep in mind Aaron Schobel weighs 243lbs and made the pro bowl for us.

Go_Eagles77
03-18-2009, 03:55 PM
As a PSU fan I think he could be a solid DE in a 4-3, but he could be great as a 3-4 OLB and that's where I hope he will end up. I'd say as a 3-4 OLB he should be a top 15 pick and as a 4-3 DE he should be a late first - mid second round pick.

PACKmanN
03-18-2009, 03:56 PM
so you want a 243 guy to play LE? I don't think that will help your run defense.

BeerBaron
03-18-2009, 04:05 PM
As a PSU fan I think he could be a solid DE in a 4-3, but he could be great as a 3-4 OLB and that's where I hope he will end up. I'd say as a 3-4 OLB he should be a top 15 pick and as a 4-3 DE he should be a late first - mid second round pick.

I've given my PSU expertise on him a few times, and I still stand by my opinion on him that I've had for a while.

He was great at PSU. Awesome explosion, there were times it seemed like he was in the backfield before the lineman could even get out of their stances to block him.

Now, if he were like a 3rd round prospect as a situational pass rusher, he'd be great to a 4-3 team. Put him on on 3rds and long and let him get after the passer.

But if he's going to be taken high in the first round, I'm almost positive it has to be as a 3-4 OLB. He will simply get pushed around way too easily and struggle vs. the run if he has tackles on him at the snap like he would in the 4-3.

So, I'm sorry dude, but if your Bills take him in the first, he's going to struggle. Maybe he'll get you some sacks which is always nice, but he's going to kill your run defense.

BuffaloBillsDraft
03-18-2009, 04:07 PM
so you want a 243 guy to play LE? I don't think that will help your run defense.

No, I would expect Maybin to be a situational pass rusher his 1st year and gradually take over the RE spot in a year.

BuffaloBillsDraft
03-18-2009, 04:08 PM
I've given my PSU expertise on him a few times, and I still stand by my opinion on him that I've had for a while.

He was great at PSU. Awesome explosion, there were times it seemed like he was in the backfield before the lineman could even get out of their stances to block him.

Now, if he were like a 3rd round prospect as a situational pass rusher, he'd be great to a 4-3 team. Put him on on 3rds and long and let him get after the passer.

But if he's going to be taken high in the first round, I'm almost positive it has to be as a 3-4 OLB. He will simply get pushed around way too easily and struggle vs. the run if he has tackles on him at the snap like he would in the 4-3.

So, I'm sorry dude, but if your Bills take him in the first, he's going to struggle. Maybe he'll get you some sacks which is always nice, but he's going to kill your run defense.

How many 1st round picks come in and start right away? Why cant he be a situational guy early in his career?

He has potential to be a star and thats why you draft players in the 1st round.

BeerBaron
03-18-2009, 04:11 PM
How many 1st round picks come in and start right away? Why cant he be a situational guy early in his career?

He has potential to be a star and thats why you draft players in the 1st round.

He could be a star. He could be. He's going to get sacks, I'm sure of it.

But he's going to kill your run defense as an every down 4-3 DE in the pros. He struggled with it in college and it's only going to be exacerbated in the pros.

Thats what I meant when I said if he were projected as a 3rd rounder, he'd be great to a 4-3 team as an Elvis Dumervil "just go get the passer" type who you could send in in certain situations.

If you take him at 11, your only going to get a career situational pass rusher for as long as you run the 4-3.

stephenson86
03-18-2009, 04:11 PM
a 252 aaron maybin isnt the same threat he is when hes 20lbs lighter which is his burst...his only quality

Mr. Hero
03-18-2009, 04:21 PM
a 252 aaron maybin isnt the same threat he is when hes 20lbs lighter which is his burst...his only quality

That's not necessarily true. Maybin's biggest problem was lower body strength and if a lot of that added muscle is in his legs he won't lose much athleticism at all, similar to how high school kids get bigger and faster as they progress through a college S&C program.

Thumper
03-18-2009, 04:25 PM
I would say that he would be better suited to play LB like Beer Baron said but also keep in mind that just because you aren't big doesn't mean you can't defend the run. My prime example of this is Trent Cole who I think compares very favorably with Maybin. Trent Cole is so quick that he can just get past the tackle and stop the run, Cole is consistantly the first off the line and he led the NFL in tackles for a loss this season. Cole is a very good run defender.

PACKmanN
03-18-2009, 04:29 PM
No, I would expect Maybin to be a situational pass rusher his 1st year and gradually take over the RE spot in a year.

isn't what that guy from VT is for? imo, if Orakpo isn't there then your best option is to trade down and get an Larry English/Robert Ayers or a Paul Kruger in round 2.

brat316
03-18-2009, 04:37 PM
I just don't think he is going to do good in the 3-4 as olb. Can he shed blocks and go after the run, hold the POA. And then when it comes to passing downs can he actually beat the tackle with something other than speed move. He might have the weight but I don't think he has the strength to match, and beat a tackle with some moves. Look at his highlight tapes he runs past the defenders to the qb, he never has to use any technique.

As BeerBaron said he would be a great pick up in the third round as a situational pass rusher, and that maybe in any scheme, where he doesn't have to worry about dropping back or worry about the run.

stephenson86
03-18-2009, 04:42 PM
That's not necessarily true. Maybin's biggest problem was lower body strength and if a lot of that added muscle is in his legs he won't lose much athleticism at all, similar to how high school kids get bigger and faster as they progress through a college S&C program.

judging by his combine the added weight hadnt helped

BuffaloBillsDraft
03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
judging by his combine the added weight hadnt helped

He is still explosive. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/behind-the-times-the-10-yard-split/

A “Great” 10-Yard Split Time (1.55 seconds and under)

Cliff Avril, Lions: 1.50 (2008)

Chris Long, Rams: 1.53 (2008)



A “Good” 10-Yard Split Time (1.56-159)

Gaines Adams, Buccaneers: 1.58 (2007)

Derrick Harvey, Jaguars: 1.59 (2008)



An “Average” 10-Yard Split Time (1.6-1.62)

Kamerion Wimbley, Browns: 1.6 (2006)

Bruce Davis, Steelers: 1.62 (2008)



Below Average 10-Yard Split Times (1.63-1.69)

Charles Johnson, Panthers: 1.63 (2007)

Anthony Spencer, Cowboys: 1.64 (2007)



With an eye toward the 2009 draft class, we can now rank the nation’s top pass rushing DE/OLB hybrids according to their 10-yard split times and break down what each time means.



1. Clay Matthews, USC (6-3, 240), 10-yard split: 1.49

Matthews made the jaws of a couple scouts drop after he posted a time of 1.49 seconds in his 10-yard split. To put it into perspective, only nine cornerbacks at the Combine ran faster. Matthews obviously possesses an explosive first step and gets up to speed very quickly. He’s proven he has the burst to rush off the edge, which is one reason he’s considered among the nation’s top 3-4 outside linebacker prospects.



2. Aaron Maybin, Penn State (6-4, 249), 10-yard split: 1.55

It’s obvious on tape that Maybin possesses an explosive first step off the edge. However, what makes him even tougher to block is his ability to consistently be the first defensive lineman moving off the snap and consistently firing off the ball on time. Maybin didn’t have the 40 time many expected (4.79), but his 10-yard split proved he has the first step to reach the edge.



3. Connor Barwin, Cincinnati (6-4, 256), 10-yard split: 1.57

His 4.59 40 time got all the attention, but Barwin’s ability to coil up in his stance and fire off the ball will make him a success in the NFL. He’s a gifted athlete who has the motor and burst to get after the quarterback. However, his 1.57 split proves he has the first-step explosion to make things happen as a down defensive end.



4. Everette Brown, Florida State (6-2, 256), 10-yard split: 1.58

Brown measured in a bit shorter than expected at the Combine but ran well, even though I expected his split to be a bit faster. However, Brown plays so low that it’s tough for offensive tackles to get a good punch on him. Brown isn’t just a straight-line athlete; his ability to bend and dip around the edge coupled with his burst allows him to create a lot of havoc versus the pass.



5. Clint Sintim, Virginia (6-3, 256), 10-yard split: 1.59

Sintim displays impressive get-off speed for his size and showcases good explosion from a two-point stance. There isn’t much flash to his game, but he has enough burst to be a solid contributor off the edge and get after the passer.



6. Larry English, Northern Illinois (6-2, 255), 10-yard split: 1.64

I worried about English’s ability to coil up and fire out of his stance on film, and his time confirms my suspicions. He consistently comes off the ball too high for my liking, and I don’t think he has the burst to be successful as a pass rushing defensive end. English needs to stand up in a two-point stance to be effective, but his 4.82 40 time doesn’t do much for teams concerned about his ability to play in space.



Overall, the 10-yard split is simply another tool to help scouts determine the caliber of player they’re evaluating. Now, I would not consider the 10-yard split to be the end all of evaluations for pass rushers because there are always expectations and other athletic tests to help evaluate them (short shuttle and three-cone drills). However, when scouting pass rushers, I think it’s critical to put more weight on the 10-yard split than a more attractive 40-yard time.

underscore
03-18-2009, 05:12 PM
He could be a star. He could be. He's going to get sacks, I'm sure of it.

But he's going to kill your run defense as an every down 4-3 DE in the pros. He struggled with it in college and it's only going to be exacerbated in the pros.

Thats what I meant when I said if he were projected as a 3rd rounder, he'd be great to a 4-3 team as an Elvis Dumervil "just go get the passer" type who you could send in in certain situations.

If you take him at 11, your only going to get a career situational pass rusher for as long as you run the 4-3.

I disagree that he "struggled" with run defense. He had 8 TFL this year that weren't sacks (good enough for 2nd on the team), led linemen in total tackles. Certainly his strengths right now cater to pass rushing, but he'll be more than adequate against the run as he gains more weight and gets more experience.

brat316
03-18-2009, 05:13 PM
I disagree that he "struggled" with run defense. He had 8 TFL this year that weren't sacks (good enough for 2nd on the team), led linemen in total tackles. Certainly his strengths right now cater to pass rushing, but he'll be more than adequate against the run as he gains more weight and gets more experience.

I think as he gain more strength he will be adequate against the run

JohnCandy
03-18-2009, 05:19 PM
He ran a 4.59 [40] at his Pro Day. The guy has freak show athletic ability.

http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/maybin_significantly_lowers_40.html

BeerBaron
03-18-2009, 05:24 PM
I disagree that he "struggled" with run defense. He had 8 TFL this year that weren't sacks (good enough for 2nd on the team), led linemen in total tackles. Certainly his strengths right now cater to pass rushing, but he'll be more than adequate against the run as he gains more weight and gets more experience.

He struggled. He's got no problem penetrating into the backfield, so if it is a run play, he can bring down the runner.

But he's not going to be stout and hold the line and tie up blockers to allow the linebackers to get after the runner when he doesn't just burst into the backfield, and thats going to be on 90% of the plays he faces.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 05:28 PM
Most of the extra weight Maybin gained prior to the draft was in his upper body, still has very underwhelming pins.

I doubt Maybin will ever have the raw strength to hold up playing a 4-3 DE, but he's young so it's hard to say.

Physically he looks like an OLB, and should excel in that role. The Skins had an impact player in Marcus Washington with similar measurables to Maybin, ( 6'4, 250 pounds), who was a DE at Auburn but converted to OLB in the pros.
Washington could rush standing up or from a 3 point stance and was our best pass rusher before injuries got him cut this offseason.
The way Maybin runs in pursuit I see no reason why he couldn't be an outstanding OLB, the deepest position in the draft.

BTW, not to be conspiratorial, but how does a guy, (Maybin!) with an admittedly high metabolism gain 25 pounds of muscle in 8 - 10 weeks?

brat316
03-18-2009, 05:30 PM
See Maybin could be a good Olb, just not in the 3-4.

killxswitch
03-19-2009, 07:51 AM
I don't know how Maybin will do, but Robert Mathis does well for the Colts at 245 lbs. as a LE. Just something to consider. He (Mathis) is a rare talent but then again Maybin gained a lot of muscle between the end of the college season and the combine, he could pack on more muscle and regain speed like he did between the combine and his pro day.

From what I've seen of him I don't think LB is his position. He will get bigger and be a DE in a 4-3.

nepg
03-19-2009, 08:13 AM
BTW, not to be conspiratorial, but how does a guy, (Maybin!) with an admittedly high metabolism gain 25 pounds of muscle in 8 - 10 weeks?

Water. Just like guys "lose" weight unusually fast by dehydrating before weigh ins.
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DeathbyStat
03-19-2009, 08:19 AM
I really want this kid to be a Buffalo Bill. I love his work ethic, his never quit attitude, and his explosiveness.

IMO he is the perfect 4-3 RE for our defense, keep in mind Aaron Schobel weighs 243lbs and made the pro bowl for us.

As a rotational or part time starter in a tampa 2

Young Nasty Man
03-19-2009, 08:37 AM
I feel that if he is under the correct coaching in a 3-4 scheme, he can be phenomenal. He posses all the qualities that a 3-4 OLB has. His knock is his height and he is a little undersized. At the same time you see a lot of guys who aren't the largest ones playing 3-4 OLB all the time. I really think his motor and his explosiveness off the edge will really prove him to be successful. He will probably only see a lot of time on 3rd downs his first year to just kill the QB. But when eventually learning coverages etc., it will take him time to develope moving from his usual DE assignments to a 3-4 OLB assignment. I think teams with a 4-3 should stay away because of his lack of size and the fact that he is only 6'3 254. Yet, take a look at Robert Mathis. So I mean anything is possible, I just see him strongly succeeding in the 3-4.

nepg
03-19-2009, 08:55 AM
I like Maybin to Buffalo. They have DE's, so they don't need him to be anything more than a situational pass rusher right away. He should be able to fill out his frame properly, and be an effective everydown DE within a couple years. I really don't like him in a 3-4. He's the ideal size, but I just don't think he can do it.
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killxswitch
03-19-2009, 09:23 AM
I feel that if he is under the correct coaching in a 3-4 scheme, he can be phenomenal. He posses all the qualities that a 3-4 OLB has. His knock is his height and he is a little undersized. At the same time you see a lot of guys who aren't the largest ones playing 3-4 OLB all the time. I really think his motor and his explosiveness off the edge will really prove him to be successful. He will probably only see a lot of time on 3rd downs his first year to just kill the QB. But when eventually learning coverages etc., it will take him time to develope moving from his usual DE assignments to a 3-4 OLB assignment. I think teams with a 4-3 should stay away because of his lack of size and the fact that he is only 6'3 254. Yet, take a look at Robert Mathis. So I mean anything is possible, I just see him strongly succeeding in the 3-4.

Dwight Freeney is also undersized at 6'1 and 260ish. He and Mathis are a pair of the smallest AND most effective pass rushers in the league.

I think Maybin will do well in the right scheme. I am not convinced he will do well as a 3-4 OLB.

jumbos10
03-19-2009, 09:31 AM
Water. Just like guys "lose" weight unusually fast by dehydrating before weigh ins.

Thats one of the dumbest things i've ever read, 25 lbs of water? Maybe it has to do with getting out of Penn State's garbage Strength program and working with an intelligent trainer on top of having each meal catered to your needs. Not to mention, great genetics

nepg
03-19-2009, 10:55 AM
Ya, because I obviously meant "25lbs of water". The guy obviously gained some weight on his own, but also probably just had as much water (and bread) in him as he could manage. Oldest trick in the book.
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Babylon
03-19-2009, 10:59 AM
He ran a 4.59 [40] at his Pro Day. The guy has freak show athletic ability.

http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/maybin_significantly_lowers_40.html

When guys can shave basically 2 tenths off their 40 like Maybin and Wells did from the combine to their pro days you have to wonder which is closer to the truth. Pro Days need to go as far as i'm concerned.

nepg
03-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Because Maybin's goal for the combine was to show he could get his weight up to an NFL level. His goal for his Pro Day was to show he could keep the weight on and maintain his level of athleticism.
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parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-19-2009, 12:38 PM
If you look at Maybin's before/after photos of his weight gain, that's 100% beef he's put on his frame.

Matter of fact, he looks just as cut, if not more so at his new weight.

Weight/strength training wasn't invented yesterday, all I want to know is what kind of program he's on that puts on 25 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks.

TACKLE
03-19-2009, 01:48 PM
My question with Maybin is will he be able to keep the weight on. Many guys can bulk up for their workouts to get closer to an ideal weight, but once the season starts their weight will drop again as their focus isn't to stay bulked up. Now I know there are many DE's who play under their listed weight but will Maybin still be able to an effective 3-down DE at 240lbs.

rockio42
03-19-2009, 02:33 PM
a big thing people seem to be saying is that he won't be a good 3-4 OLB because they haven't seen him and don't know if he can cover and I was wondering if guys like Shawne Merriman and DeMarcus Ware also had questions about whether or not they would be able to adapt to the covering aspect of playing LB

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-19-2009, 03:33 PM
At the least, Maybin is equal to Merriman and Ware playing in space. All three were primarily DEs in college and both Merriman and Ware were able to successfully make the transition to playing upright.

IMO, Maybin's long term future is at OLB, either 3-4 or 4-3. But I thought the same thing about Jevon Kearse too. All depends who drafts him and how they evaluate his overall skills.

Larry
03-19-2009, 03:56 PM
4-3 teams can just rotate him in on third downs. Pass rush is pass rush.

captainjack27
03-19-2009, 04:12 PM
I think that if Buffalo is to take him, he should be strictly a 3rd down pass rusher at first. He had an excellent pro day which reitterates the fact that he is a very physically gifted prospect. I think though he needs to be put inot a system where he can learn under some veterans while getting some work on pass rushing downs. I think that would be best for him. He could be put in right away and could succeed, however it would a lot more difficult.

NIN1984
03-19-2009, 04:24 PM
Raiders have Derrick Burgress listed as 6'2 260 but he looks more around 240 maybe lower and he had a few good seasons he just can't stay healthy at this point in his career. But I don't think Maybin's weight is a big deal.

PACKmanN
03-19-2009, 10:47 PM
http://blog.pennlive.com/bobflounders/2009/03/medium_maybin_before_after.jpg

in less then 2 months, is that even possible without doing it illegally?

TNPatsFan
03-19-2009, 10:49 PM
I don't know how he's doing it, but even if he's doing it in a legitimate way, I would have to question if he will be able to maintain that weight over the course of a football season if he isn't naturally that big.

phlysac
03-19-2009, 11:05 PM
I have been critical of Aaron Maybin because of his lack of protypical size prior to the Combine. I still think that his weight/frame could be an issue. However, he is still just 20 years of age. His musculature could very well still be maturing. If he continues to use the appropriate strength and conditioning training as well as the appropriate diet and nutrition he could definitely maintain his current weight. It won't be easy, but that's what seperates elite athletes from the rest.