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gpngc
03-18-2009, 06:44 PM
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153362/1/index.htm

Some really interesting stuff...

In an October matchup against Tennessee's defense—anchored by end Robert Ayers, who could be a high-round pick in this year's draft—Alabama put up 366 yards of offense, including 178 rushing, in a 29--9 victory. Ayers did get a hit on Tide quarterback John Parker Wilson, but Smith says he pulled up on the play because he thought Ayers had jumped the snap. When no offside flag was thrown, he barked at Ayers and told him what was to come. Says Smith, "He had a target on him for the remainder of the game."

Several general managers scoffed at speculation that Smith could fall past the middle of the first round or out of it altogether. With Jason Smith of Baylor and Virginia's Eugene Monroe projected to be drafted in the top five, teams next in line that are looking for a tackle—including the Bengals (picking sixth), 49ers (10th) and Bills (11th)—will be plenty tempted by Alabama's Smith. "All I can say is that someone will get a steal if he does fall," says one coach whose team selects in the bottom half of the top 10. "I hope he's there when we're on the clock, because I know we'd take him."

Joe Pendry, a former NFL assistant who was Smith's position coach the past two seasons, raved about Smith on pro day, citing his work ethic, leadership and tenacity. Pendry told one scout that Smith may have more upside than Redskins Pro Bowl tackle Chris Samuels.

He has a naiveté about him that teams could find charming ... or alarming, considering the money he would command as a high first-round pick. Fame and fortune are known magnets for opportunists, and privately some teams wonder how long it will take Smith to learn life's lessons—and whether those lessons would be as painful for the team that picks him as they might be for him. Smith is universally regarded as a good kid, but he raised another red flag at his pro day when his guests included 30 family members, three trainers, a publicist and his agent.

"That's as much a problem as anything," says one G.M. picking in the top 10. "Nobody's questioning the guy's character; I haven't heard anybody say this guy is a jerk. But he's got to take charge, because once he gets drafted, these people aren't going to magically disappear. He needs to take hold of his life."

"I want to be the best offensive lineman to ever play football, to ever strap them on," he says. "I feel like I can be the best. It's bold, but that's how I feel. I'm not being cocky or arrogant. It's just how I feel about myself."

nobodyinparticular
03-18-2009, 06:47 PM
Smith says he pulled up on the play because he thought Ayers had jumped the snap.

Ok, not to pick on the kid, but this is freaking ridiculous. You don't freaking stop on any play--especially as an Olineman! Your QB can get hurt.

And I don't care if you think you can be the best. Everybody thinks that. Lamont Jordan thought that. You have to put the work in to get there. So far, I haven't seen that. And for that, I will be truly ticked off if the Raiders draft Andre Smith.

JRTPlaya21
03-18-2009, 07:28 PM
Washington shouldn't touch him but they need lineman.

Mr. Hero
03-18-2009, 08:15 PM
If the giants drafted Andre Smith I would personally invite him to a boat ride for three.

Sniper
03-18-2009, 08:18 PM
Washington shouldn't touch him but they need lineman.

I think he'd be ******* phenomenal in Washington. However, don't take him and let him drop to 21, kthxbai.

619
03-18-2009, 08:20 PM
Washington shouldn't touch him but they need lineman.

Don't worry, he won't last 'til then. I promise.

Solomon
03-18-2009, 08:50 PM
If the giants drafted Andre Smith I would personally invite him to a boat ride for three.

too soon...


I think Smith is one of those guys who was so overrated by people on this board that now that he's come back down to earth he is starting to be underrated (ditto for Mike Oher, Knowshon Moreno, Michael Johnson, Malcolm Jenkins etc). No he's probably not polished enough to be a top 5 pick this year but he's still very good value in the mid first round and could end up being a great player in the league. Right now I have him going to Washington in the first frame.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
03-18-2009, 09:04 PM
If the Skins are lucky enough to pick him, most in DC will consider it a successful draft.

He's the same player he was at the end of Alabama's season last year; 1st team AP All-American, All SEC, Lombardi and Outland Trophy winner.

Never understood all the hate against him. Doesn't matter just so he's there at #13.

PACKmanN
03-18-2009, 09:19 PM
IMO, it sounds like Ted Thompson on the GM comment and Sean Payton on the "we will take him comment"

Brent
03-18-2009, 09:19 PM
I would welcome him at #10 to SF

gpngc
03-18-2009, 09:21 PM
IMO, it sounds like Ted Thompson on the GM comment and Sean Payton on the "we will take him comment"

says one coach whose team selects in the bottom half of the top 10.

It doesn't say "head" coach so who knows.

But we can confirm that there is a coach on the staff of either the Bengals, Raiders, Jaguars, Packers, or 49ers who thinks the team will take Andre Smith if (probable) he's there.

ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
The hate on this guy is absolutely unwarranted. He screwed up at the combine. It was odd and no one had ever seen something like that before. He also happens to be the best natural blocker out of anyone in the draft and probably the best left tackle prospect since Joe Thomas. Does everything you can ask him to on the football field. The idea of the main argument against a linemen being how he looks with his shirt off is absolutely ridiculous.

no love
03-18-2009, 10:30 PM
says one coach whose team selects in the bottom half of the top 10.

It doesn't say "head" coach so who knows.

But we can confirm that there is a coach on the staff of either the Bengals, Raiders, Jaguars, Packers, or 49ers who thinks the team will take Andre Smith if (probable) he's there.

The 49ers have already said that he wouldn't fall past them at 10.

themaninblack
03-18-2009, 10:37 PM
His talent is undeniable and he might be a good kid and all but he just doesn't seem to be all there mentally. While I think it would be a risk to draft him because of that, I still would not be upset if Cincy took him. I don't think I've seen a better offensive lineman on the field in the last couple of years at least.

Mr. Hero
03-18-2009, 10:48 PM
His talent is undeniable and he might be a good kid and all but he just doesn't seem to be all there mentally. While I think it would be a risk to draft him because of that, I still would not be upset if Cincy took him. I don't think I've seen a better offensive lineman on the field in the last couple of years at least.

I think of him the way I do Marshawn Lynch, he's a good kid, who works hard but is somewhat of a knucklehead, the question is when does he learn from his mistakes and mature, I think Andre Smith is already getting there, I mean he dropped weight and had a very good Pro-Day so he seems to understand he's got to go back to work.

ironman4579
03-18-2009, 11:00 PM
I doubt the guy gets out of the top 10, regardless of how badly he's messed up the draft process. On Sirius NFL radio, Pat Kirwan was saying that one scout told him after Smith's pro day "Andre doesn't do anything good.........................except run block and pass block."

diabsoule
03-19-2009, 01:20 AM
IMO, it sounds like Ted Thompson on the GM comment and Sean Payton on the "we will take him comment"

If that is Sean Payton and the Saints do take him I'll be switching team to pull for, however, I doubt we'd take Smith since our OL has been locked up w/ the re-signing of RT Jon Stinchcomb as well as having Carl Nicks at LG and Jahri Evans at RG.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 03:01 AM
i would also stop rooting for the Saints if we picked him, but we have a solid oline, we just need a center

BigBanger
03-19-2009, 04:40 AM
I think of him the way I do Marshawn Lynch, he's a good kid, who works hard but is somewhat of a knucklehead, the question is when does he learn from his mistakes and mature, I think Andre Smith is already getting there, I mean he dropped weight and had a very good Pro-Day so he seems to understand he's got to go back to work.
Lynch is a thug.

Smith is a Jesus freak.

Pick your poison.

Mr.Regular
03-19-2009, 09:12 AM
IMO, it sounds like Ted Thompson on the GM comment and Sean Payton on the "we will take him comment"
Wouldn't be surprised, I really have a feeling the Packers are going to take a OT.

Dark Knight01
03-19-2009, 01:10 PM
The hate on this guy is absolutely unwarranted. He screwed up at the combine. It was odd and no one had ever seen something like that before. He also happens to be the best natural blocker out of anyone in the draft and probably the best left tackle prospect since Joe Thomas. Does everything you can ask him to on the football field. The idea of the main argument against a linemen being how he looks with his shirt off is absolutely ridiculous.




^^^Exactly....I have been saying the same thing.

I would have loved to have BJ Raji run with his shirt off and I'm still wondering why he didn't?

Sniper
03-19-2009, 01:47 PM
If that is Sean Payton and the Saints do take him I'll be switching team to pull for, however, I doubt we'd take Smith since our OL has been locked up w/ the re-signing of RT Jon Stinchcomb as well as having Carl Nicks at LG and Jahri Evans at RG.

You'd switch allegiances based on the fact that your team took the best LT in the draft? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 05:29 PM
You'd switch allegiances based on the fact that your team took the best LT in the draft? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
no i just wouldn't give a crap about the nfl until we had different personnel making better decisions...and he is not the best LT in the draft. Over hyped. Hes elite but not worth the trouble. I gave up on the Saints when we had Aaron Brooks (not when we first had him) but when he got injured, Jake Delhomme came in and performed better and they put Brooks back in , still injured and he did horrible and they didnt play Jake. Brooks continued to decline even when healthy, laughing after throwing interceptions while Delhomme was released the next year and the Panthers went to the Superbowl, yeah i stopped watching until after Katrina and we got new personnel. Who else was behind Brooks? Marc Bulger and J.T. O Sullivan. Three guys who started last year while Brooks couldnt find a team to even be a backup for. I am stilled pissed off about the Jonathan Sullivan pick, the guy got really fat after we picked him. At least this guy is showing his true colors before the draft. I wouldnt root for a team who picks players who dont care about football, and dont take it seriously even though they will be getting paid millions of dollars. How could you respect a team that makes that pick? The economy sucks right now and this guy can't even stay in shape for a FEW FREAKING MONTHS for something that will impact his career? That shows his character, but sure enough some dumb team will pick him and he will be a bust.

yourfavestoner
03-19-2009, 05:42 PM
It's not his character that scouts are questioning. It's his maturity.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 05:44 PM
Andre Smith's been overweight for a long time, yet he's still been a fantastic football player. The weight issue is nothing new, yet last I checked he's still been killing it in the SEC for the past three years.

Mr. Hero
03-19-2009, 05:59 PM
Andre Smith's been overweight for a long time, yet he's still been a fantastic football player. The weight issue is nothing new, yet last I checked he's still been killing it in the SEC for the past three years.

325 at his proday really isn't that overweight.

AntoinCD
03-19-2009, 06:09 PM
I kinda feel sorry in a way for Andre Smith. Recently people have been talking about how he has cost himself millions, his work ethic is questionable etc etc. Frankly I don't think he has a bad attitude I just think he's a little stupid and naive. He probably has cost himself quite a bit of money in that he won't go 1 or 2, but I really don't see him falling further than 6 unless there's a big shake up in the Top 5 and someone like Curry falls

Saints-Tigers
03-19-2009, 06:22 PM
We don't want the Saints "fans" that jump on and off the team whenever they feel like we did something wrong.

I'll take Andre Smith, he's a fabulous football player, and if he gets rid of the fair weather fans, all the better.

PoopSandwich
03-19-2009, 06:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiA05_3Cio8&feature=related

He needs some good ol NFL strength and conditioning.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 06:52 PM
We don't want the Saints "fans" that jump on and off the team whenever they feel like we did something wrong.

I'll take Andre Smith, he's a fabulous football player, and if he gets rid of the fair weather fans, all the better.

being a fairweather fan is only rooting for your team when they win. Not supporting them because they get bad players on purpose, ones that dont have discipline or care about football or continue to play players who dont really care about winning or football is a totally different thing. Who would he replace? Pro bowler Jammal Brown?
Im sorry if i dont want a fat out of shape guy who doesnt care about football protecting Drew Brees

Mr. Hero
03-19-2009, 07:33 PM
being a fairweather fan is only rooting for your team when they win. Not supporting them because they get bad players on purpose, ones that dont have discipline or care about football or continue to play players who dont really care about winning or football is a totally different thing. Who would he replace? Pro bowler Jammal Brown?
Im sorry if i dont want a fat out of shape guy who doesnt care about football protecting Drew Brees

Ummm. Andre Smith dominated the SEC, on every snap. You don't do that unless you care about football and work hard, don't believe take a look at Michael Johnson, who might be even more naturally talented at his position than Andre is at his.

As for being out of shape the dude was at 325 for his proday which is about where you want him. So calling him fat and out of shape just isn't accurate.

Criticize his maturity, as it's clear he thought he'd proven more than he had, but that isn't a question of work ethic or desire.

RaiderFan
03-19-2009, 09:01 PM
The hate on this guy is absolutely unwarranted. He screwed up at the combine. It was odd and no one had ever seen something like that before. He also happens to be the best natural blocker out of anyone in the draft and probably the best left tackle prospect since Joe Thomas. Does everything you can ask him to on the football field. The idea of the main argument against a linemen being how he looks with his shirt off is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree with this.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 09:07 PM
so what if he showed up for pro day at 325, he showed complete disrespect for the combine, which is considered a job interview for players entering the draft. Once out of Nick Saban's control he has shown immaturity. He didnt even play the sugar bowl, the most important game that year. Shows he really cares about the game and the team he plays for, right?

Mr. Hero
03-19-2009, 09:20 PM
so what if he showed up for pro day at 325, he showed complete disrespect for the combine, which is considered a job interview for players entering the draft. Once out of Nick Saban's control he has shown immaturity. He didnt even play the sugar bowl, the most important game that year. Shows he really cares about the game and the team he plays for, right?

He screwed up big time, but it's not because he doesn't work hard or care about football, it's because he's immature. That's why I think it's very good that he had very positive reviews at his proday and subsequent interviews, which are...you know, actual job interviews. Which points to him having realized he screwed up and right now he's doing what he has to to prove to people that he'll learn from this situation. That's the big issue, is he going to learn the right lessons from these mistakes. At the moment I think he will, but he's made his maturity a question and I think he'll keep working to answer that question. Which is why I still think there's a very good chance he's the best player from this draft. I still hope that, unless he's really blowing teams away in interviews, he does slide a bit on draft day just to re-inforce what he needs to do to succeed and get the respect he wants.

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 09:47 PM
so what if he showed up for pro day at 325, he showed complete disrespect for the combine, which is considered a job interview for players entering the draft. Once out of Nick Saban's control he has shown immaturity. He didnt even play the sugar bowl, the most important game that year. Shows he really cares about the game and the team he plays for, right?

How are you questioning how much he cares about the game? Andre Smith always struck me as a guy who LOVED to block. You can tell by the way he plays. Doesn't back down from absolutely anyone or let anyone get the drop on him. He's competitive as hell too. He's immature and naive, but the weight issues are overblown and he's still the most talented tackle in the draft.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 10:31 PM
so what if he showed up for pro day at 325, he showed complete disrespect for the combine, which is considered a job interview for players entering the draft. Once out of Nick Saban's control he has shown immaturity. He didnt even play the sugar bowl, the most important game that year. Shows he really cares about the game and the team he plays for, right?

Right, I'm sure the Sugar Bowl was more important to Alabama than the SEC title game which would have propelled them to the National Championship game. Thinking before you speak= super duper.

phlysac
03-19-2009, 10:52 PM
It's not his character that scouts are questioning. It's his maturity.

This ^

And it doesn't appear to be immaturity in the sense that he's a knucklehead but immaturity in the fact that he is still "boyish" for lack of a better word. He still seems to very much let other people make his decisions for him which is why he had the problems during bowl season as well as at the Combine. He reportedly travels with an entourage of 30 family members. His talent is absolutely unquestionable. He just needs to be put in the right situation where he can grow into a man, emotionally as well as to demonstrate personal responsibility.

It would shock me if he fell past pick #10.

Sniper
03-19-2009, 10:54 PM
325 at his proday really isn't that overweight.

It's not, but apparently Smith played at a much higher weight in college.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 11:03 PM
Right, I'm sure the Sugar Bowl was more important to Alabama than the SEC title game which would have propelled them to the National Championship game. Thinking before you speak= super duper.

yes, the sugar bowl is more important than the sec title game, if he wouldve been there they would have probably won, instead he wasnt, and i think it was embarrassment for alabama

619
03-19-2009, 11:04 PM
It's not, but apparently Smith played at a much higher weight in college.

Anywhere between 325 and 350. Probably much closer to 350, of course.

Saints-Tigers
03-19-2009, 11:17 PM
Smith could stand and walk straight backwards and block better than stinchcomb.

Dude is a beast, flat out, his play speaks for itself.

batsandgats
03-19-2009, 11:39 PM
that is disrespectful to one of the better linemen on the saints. stinchcomb is athletic as hell and is a great pass blocker, and blocks well in space on those little screens we do for reggie. I bet you dont remember last year when he pancacked like 4 defenders on a screen to reggie that let him go for a touchdown. Thats why we just locked him up for 5 years this year, it was one of the biggest fa moves we made so far besides resigning vilma, and getting Greer. So i dont know why you choose him to diss out of all the linemen on the Saints
we also have zach streif at backup who can play rt and lt he played in Jammal Brown's absence a game and struggled at first but then started to hold his own, which is pretty hard for a backup to come in and hold there own at lt, usually they are embarrased, i dont see smith playing RT anyway, so who would he replace? the only weakness on the line is at center

Sniper
03-20-2009, 09:17 AM
yes, the sugar bowl is more important than the sec title game, if he wouldve been there they would have probably won, instead he wasnt, and i think it was embarrassment for alabama

What? Winning the SEC title game would have put them in the national title game. However, I'm sure you're right. Alabama would rather play for fourth place in the country instead of playing for first. :rolleyes:

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 01:35 PM
yes bowl games are important because they generate more revenue for your team. Coaches get bonuses for playing in bowl games, and even bigger bonuses for winning one. So since he couldnt play in the national championship game its okay for him to just give up? So thats what i want on my team? someone who thinks if they are not going to the superbowl then the games dont really matter to them?
whats worse...losing the sec title game or losing to utah in the sugar bowl? i would say losing the sugar bowl was worse, and he shouldve been there, he wasnt and his team was embarrassed

Mr. Hero
03-20-2009, 01:44 PM
yes bowl games are important because they generate more revenue for your team. Coaches get bonuses for playing in bowl games, and even bigger bonuses for winning one. So since he couldnt play in the national championship game its okay for him to just give up? So thats what i want on my team? someone who thinks if they are not going to the superbowl then the games dont really matter to them?

You're just re-hashing a point that we've already mentioned, the kid screwed up after his lost the biggest game of their season, despite him dominating. That's why he's immature and why he's no longer considered the clear top OT in this draft.

LonghornsLegend
03-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Pretty sure the team in the top 10 who won't let him pass them is SF, he fits exactly what they want to do with the power running game, and he'll be a pro bowler at RT in a short time...Staley on the other end looks pretty nice too.

Sniper
03-20-2009, 01:51 PM
yes bowl games are important because they generate more revenue for your team. Coaches get bonuses for playing in bowl games, and even bigger bonuses for winning one.

Last I checked, the national title game is the biggest bowl game of all. Gets the most publicity, the most recognition, the most money, and oh yeah, that little crystal ball.

So since he couldnt play in the national championship game its okay for him to just give up? So thats what i want on my team? someone who thinks if they are not going to the superbowl then the games dont really matter to them?

Of course not. Show me where I said that.

whats worse...losing the sec title game or losing to utah in the sugar bowl? i would say losing the sugar bowl was worse, and he shouldve been there, he wasnt and his team was embarrassed

This year? Losing the SEC title game, seeing as how it carried a direct ticket to the national title game. Poll any college football player and ask them whether they'd rather play for the national title or the Sugar Bowl. I don't think you'll like the answer.

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 03:15 PM
that is disrespectful to one of the better linemen on the saints. stinchcomb is athletic as hell and is a great pass blocker, and blocks well in space on those little screens we do for reggie. I bet you dont remember last year when he pancacked like 4 defenders on a screen to reggie that let him go for a touchdown. Thats why we just locked him up for 5 years this year, it was one of the biggest fa moves we made so far besides resigning vilma, and getting Greer. So i dont know why you choose him to diss out of all the linemen on the Saints
we also have zach streif at backup who can play rt and lt he played in Jammal Brown's absence a game and struggled at first but then started to hold his own, which is pretty hard for a backup to come in and hold there own at lt, usually they are embarrased, i dont see smith playing RT anyway, so who would he replace? the only weakness on the line is at center

Stinchcomb blows, he gets rocked back into our runners, and he is the reason I know Drew Brees is God, because he's constantly maneuvering to get away from Stinchcomb's assignment.

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Stinchcomb blows, he gets rocked back into our runners, and he is the reason I know Drew Brees is God, because he's constantly maneuvering to get away from Stinchcomb's assignment.

you obviously dont pay attention to what the line is doing, or havent watched stinchcomb the last year because most people that have actually analyzed the games, tend to agree that stinchcomb has greatly improved, hes a great pass blocker and and slighlty above average run blocker when it comes to power plays, but is money on those screens we throw to bush and is great at getting out in space in blocking and creating huge holes. I dont know what games you are watching. Unless you just watched his first year playing on the line.

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Last I checked, the national title game is the biggest bowl game of all. Gets the most publicity, the most recognition, the most money, and oh yeah, that little crystal ball.



Of course not. Show me where I said that.



This year? Losing the SEC title game, seeing as how it carried a direct ticket to the national title game. Poll any college football player and ask them whether they'd rather play for the national title or the Sugar Bowl. I don't think you'll like the answer.
yes but like i said, its more embarrassing to lose the sugar bowl to Utah and you can put a great deal of blame of that loss on him, and a player shouldnt have a not caring attitude just because its not the national championship, but weve gone over that, thats not a quality you want in a top ten pick (you guys say hes falling but i doubt he falls that far because of potential). It is not that embarrassing to lose the SEC title game to a great team that went on to WIN the national championship. Yes i was wrong, it would have meant more to win it. But they didnt. And the Sugar Bowl does mean something. Its one of the major bowl games.

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 06:33 PM
I haven't missed a Saint's game since about 1993. Funny to hear this coming from a guy that admits to stop following the team when things aren't going our way.

He's decent in pass protection, but he's susceptible to an elite Bull Rush and an Elite speed rush....

He's terrible in the power run, absolutely terrible, if he's not getting pushed back into his running back, he's on his back.

There is a reason we are bad running to the right side, and statistics back that up, and it's not because of Jahri Evans, he's a flat out beast....

I dunno, I think he's a terrible run blocker, and at best,a decent pass blocker, and we can't run the football to the right side at all because of him. He's a big reason our running game suffers, yet we do so well running off the left side (3rd off the left tackle side).

I'd like to see him replaced with a mauling, true RT, Stinchcomb strikes me more as a utility guy, ,and really a better fit as a finesse LT.

Got no issues with Brown, Evans, and Nicks, but we have gaping holes at the other two spots, and until they get filled, we won't have a good running game.

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 07:01 PM
the left side got better when nicks was in at lg, and how can you not see that he is money when it comes to those screens that we frequently use?
Hes more than decent in pass protection and hes not bad at run blocking, hes just not overly good at it, hes definetly not a weak link and why our run game suffers. The only glaring hole we have on the line is Center, which is Goodwin, we got no push up the middle. The Saints obviously dont think Stinchcomb is a bad player either being that just locked him up with a 5 year contract. Evans is not a beast, he is good but if you watch closley Stinchcomb has to help him out sometimes which is part of the reason why Stinchcomb looks bad sometimes, ive seen Evans trip of Stinchcomb multiple times and messing up his blocking assignments. RG is the easiest to play because you can get help from the center and the the right tackle.

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 07:19 PM
^is Jon Stinchcomb's wife.

Nicks and Brown block really well together

Evans and Stinchcomb don't. Evans isn't the weak point. Find me another guy that agrees that it's Evans and not Stinch that is the problem.

he's decent in the screen game, but nothing mind blowing.

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 08:50 PM
im not his wife, i just dont like when people make assumptions that they repeat over and over because they heard someone else talk about it, which is what most ppl who say stinch sucks go by, for some reason he is a scapegoat for the saints problems, the number 1 offense in the league. He struggled his first season, thats it, i guess the Saints FO must be stupid for resigning him for that contract for 5 years, i guess they dont know football and you do. 98 percent of fans never watch any line play. They watch where the ball goes. I can make a vid of the line plays and you can see for yourself who is the weak link

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 08:58 PM
So who is the weak link?

I have no reason to protect one player, and attack another, I have nothing against Jonathan Stinchcomb, he just blows.

Plenty of crappy players get huge contracts, what is your point?

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 09:25 PM
I think one of the weak links is the center

other teams were showing interest in him (stinchcomb) crappy players get contracts all the time but they dont make it a priority to sign crappy players right away like they did for vilma and stinchcomb, they made sure to get him signed right away, teams analysis on him tended to be like "great pass blocker, sometimes doesnt get enough push in the run game but is agile and fast"

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 09:37 PM
Even if we meet in the middle and say he's a good pass blocker, not getting a good push in the run game is a pretty big problem for a RT IMO.

The C is a weakness also, big time weakness, but I don't think Jon fits the profile of what we would need from a RT if we want an effective running game.

batsandgats
03-20-2009, 10:07 PM
yeah we can meet in the middle but i think only sometimes he struggles in getting push, hes gotten better over the season as well as the whole line, im uploading a video of week 1 vs the bucs of the line play. Its Brown, Nesbit, Goodwin, Evans and Stinchcomb.
from what ive watched, payton doesnt try to run to the right that often, while jon isnt a mauler, the middle is what seems to be collapsing usually. The run blocking is mostly bad from everybody in this game, Brown struggled alot more than i remembered.
I dont think Payton is going to be serious about running the ball and having a power running game that much so hes going to value pass blocking over everything. The whole line is kind of better at pass blocking than it is run blocking. The main maulers are Nicks and Streif (who is backup for right now). We are a finesse team.
I think C A.Q shipley in the 4th round would be a good pick if he is still there. Even if Stinchcomb was bad, we are stuck with him at RT unless Payton gets rid of Brown, moves Stinchcomb to LT and puts Strief at RT which i dont see happening although Stinchcomb is athletic enough to play LT and Strief is more of a mauler and suited for RT (even though he did well at LT when Brown was injured), technically it would work but i dont see things switching around like that.
At least he is good at pass blocking and screens. Otherwise it would be like the Grant/Smith situation, they both are not performing well but we cant get rid of them because of the cap hit, and so they spent all that money on them so they might as well play them. Hopefully in Greg Williams scheme they will play better, but i have seen more promise from McCray and Charleston than those two.(recently at least)

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGduysiv6-k Line play from the first Saints game last season

Sniper
03-21-2009, 05:24 PM
If you guys drafted Andre Smith and put him next to Jahri Evans, Reggie Bush would rush for 5,971 yards in one season. Book it.

yourfavestoner
03-21-2009, 06:00 PM
If you guys drafted Andre Smith and put him next to Jahri Evans, Reggie Bush would rush for 5,971 yards in one season. Book it.

I agree, and Im tough on Bush. Drafting Smith instantly upgrades three positions for the Saints: LT, RT, and RB.

batsandgats
03-21-2009, 07:31 PM
hah you guys are ridiculous, did you even watch the line play? who blocked on the last play to spring reggie bush for a td? Stinchcomb!
where was the line getting beat at? in the middle!
reggie bush hardly follows his blocks anyway, he has poor vision. He hesitates to hit the holes when they are there. But last year the middle was collapsing so there were less holes, Pierre Thomas has better vision but isnt as athletic or fast.
Bush is best as a receiver out of the backfield.

Sniper
03-21-2009, 07:33 PM
hah you guys are ridiculous, did you even watch the line play? who blocked on the last play to spring reggie bush for a td? Stinchcomb!
where was the line getting beat at? in the middle!

Well guys, if one play isn't a good enough sample size for you, I don't know what is. You have to be related to Stinchcomb.

batsandgats
03-21-2009, 08:08 PM
it was actually an entire game of line play i.e. who did well, who didnt, who got beat, who didnt get push, but you didnt bother to actually watch it so you are obviously not going to change your opinion on anything, i have, its called being a little mature about things
ive already stated that i was wrong, the sec title game was more important than the sugar bowl, BUT the sugar bowl was still an important game, colleges get more money for WINNING IT, more money for winning bowl games. But i guess it wasn't important enough for smith, he let his team down but like the fanboy of andre smith that you are, you went ahead and put what i said in your signature, even though i admitted i was wrong several times, i bet that makes you very happy to have been right about something, i give you a high five, you rock man! Give yourself a pat on the back... Even though reading this board people have been wrong about bigger things, and have said alot of dumb crap.

and i guess you must be related to andre smith for taking up for him so much? that makes no damn sense, just because a fan takes up for a good player doesnt make them related to that player.

Saints-Tigers
03-21-2009, 11:01 PM
That video really makes me sick, I feel so bad for our backs, they have to break/slip a tackle just to get back to the line of scrimmage.

Pierre Thomas does a better job of breaking tackles before he really gets his feet moving than Bush does. But if your backs have to power through multiple guys to get to the line of scrimmage, you will never be successful anyway. Bush is deadly when the line holds and makes some space. We need a mauler, not a pudding pop.

Honestly, I think Andre Smith is a better athlete anyway, his questions are at LT, he'd be a dominant RT.