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RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
03-20-2009, 09:38 AM
Just seen this on NFL Network. You can go to the video galleries and see the video. Tell me what you think.

10.Derrick Brooks
9.Derrick Thomas
8.Junior Seau
7.Willie Lanier
6.Chuck Bednarik
5.Jack Lambert
4.Ray Lewis
3.Mike Singletary
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor

stephenson86
03-20-2009, 10:42 AM
personally i think ray lewis is a bit too high, love him and everything but i think 5,6 and potentially 7 are better than him

BeerBaron
03-20-2009, 10:49 AM
Top three looks pretty solid. Top 2 I don't think can be argued with at all.....I'd consider moving Ray above Singletary though, but that could really go either way by me.

JRTPlaya21
03-20-2009, 10:51 AM
Looks like a pretty solid list. I may put Ray down to 5 though. And Seau on the list? That's up for debate.

etk
03-20-2009, 10:55 AM
10.Derrick Brooks
9.Derrick Thomas
8.Junior Seau
7.Willie Lanier
6.Chuck Bednarik
5.Jack Lambert
4.Ray Lewis
3.Mike Singletary
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor

OK. This is just absurd. Brooks at 10 and Lewis at 4? That gap has to be narrowed somehow. We've had 15-page arguments on this site over Brooks>Lewis or vice versa. You can go either way, but it's hard to justify saying one ranks well above the other. They're a package deal.

I'm also not a fan of Junior Seau. I don't think he should be on the list.

Borat
03-20-2009, 11:06 AM
There's not enough Patrick Willis on this list :cool:

throwback54milkman
03-20-2009, 11:27 AM
bart scott will be there someday

The Great Jonathan Vilma
03-20-2009, 11:29 AM
bart scott will be there someday

Oh dear lord....

trkaline
03-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Don't you mean Bart Scott will watch that one day?

Kurve
03-20-2009, 12:02 PM
I might be the only one here to say this but i really dont see a 3-4 outside rush linebacker to be a prototypical linebacker he is more of a DE. Dont get me wrong LT was one of the best ever to play football but i see someone like a Mike Singletary more of a true linebacker then LT.

captainjack27
03-20-2009, 12:09 PM
No jack Ham on there makes me upset. This wedding is horse****!

Smooth Criminal
03-20-2009, 12:27 PM
Ray Lewis above Lambert? Thats a complete joke

Saints-Tigers
03-20-2009, 12:28 PM
Taylor
Ray Lewis
Singletary

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
03-20-2009, 12:28 PM
Ray Lewis above Lambert? Thats a complete joke

Why is that?

and

Anyone think there is anyone who should be on the list that isn't?

princefielder28
03-20-2009, 12:37 PM
Why is that?

and

Anyone think there is anyone who should be on the list that isn't?

Ray Nitschke over Junior Seau

TACKLE
03-20-2009, 12:41 PM
I actually don't mind the list. If I could substitute players on the list it would be:

Jack Ham over Lambert
Ray Nitschke over Chuck Bednarik

Ravens1991
03-20-2009, 12:44 PM
I agree w/ the list. These things usually turn into a big homer fest. Also considering probably no one on here has lived through the times of all the players I think its fine.

Bucimal Island
03-20-2009, 12:51 PM
derrick brooks should be higher

PACKmanN
03-20-2009, 01:21 PM
Ray Nitschke over Junior Seau

damn straight, this guy doesn't get any credit what so ever.

etk
03-20-2009, 01:57 PM
Taylor
Ray Lewis
Singletary

Uh, you do know the NFL existed pre-1980?

Mr. Stiller
03-20-2009, 02:13 PM
I think Jack Ham deserves Mention... atleast over Derrick Brooks.

Ham was the Derrick Brooks of the 70's and was amazing. People remember Lambert for his gritty attitude and crazy play but fail to realize how amazing Ham was.

PACKmanN
03-20-2009, 02:24 PM
I think Jack Ham deserves Mention... atleast over Derrick Brooks.

Ham was the Derrick Brooks of the 70's and was amazing. People remember Lambert for his gritty attitude and crazy play but fail to realize how amazing Ham was.

they have him ranked 5th...

E-Man
03-20-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm too young to have seen most of those guys. When I was little Lawrence Taylor was at the end of his career. I knew he was a feared dude, but I didn't get to see it ya know. That being said I'd give my right arm to have seen Ray Lewis in his prime play with a star on his helmet. He was beyond a beast. Notice how he's never really been on a bad defense. It's because the guy is like a coach out there. You can't be on Ray Lewis' defense and play soft.

Derrick Brooks and Junior Seau were beastly too. I'm glad to be able to have seen them play first hand. I have a feeling I'll be saying the same thing about DeMarcus Ware, Urlacher, Patrick Willis, and Shawne Merriman if the injury doesn't hold him back.

SaintsFanForLife
03-20-2009, 03:05 PM
Move Ray down a few slots and I would agree.

vidae
03-20-2009, 03:17 PM
Butkus should be #1. I love Lawrence Taylor but Butkus was THE LB of the NFL imo.

Matthew Jones
03-20-2009, 03:26 PM
Zach Thomas could be on there too. He actually has been playing as long as Lewis and has even more tackles, although his sack/INT numbers aren't as good.

CC.SD
03-20-2009, 03:34 PM
OK. This is just absurd. Brooks at 10 and Lewis at 4? That gap has to be narrowed somehow. We've had 15-page arguments on this site over Brooks>Lewis or vice versa. You can go either way, but it's hard to justify saying one ranks well above the other. They're a package deal.

I'm also not a fan of Junior Seau. I don't think he should be on the list.

I'm not a fan of your face! :) Seriously though, I'm not convinced you actually saw him play in his prime.

Ravens1991
03-20-2009, 04:06 PM
I'm too young to have seen most of those guys. When I was little Lawrence Taylor was at the end of his career. I knew he was a feared dude, but I didn't get to see it ya know. That being said I'd give my right arm to have seen Ray Lewis in his prime play with a star on his helmet. He was beyond a beast. Notice how he's never really been on a bad defense. It's because the guy is like a coach out there. You can't be on Ray Lewis' defense and play soft.



Another way to show how important Ray is is that he had 2 seasons when he missed a lot of games 2002 and 2005 we sucked and had horrible records.

Mr. Stiller
03-20-2009, 04:13 PM
they have him ranked 5th...

Ham isn't on the list, Lambert is though.

psulion21
03-20-2009, 04:32 PM
i'd like to see urlacher crack that last before his career is over

locseti
03-20-2009, 04:51 PM
Good to see Derrick Thomas on that list.

Brent
03-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Chuck Bednarik behind Ray Lewis? **** NFLN.

MarioPalmer
03-20-2009, 05:12 PM
You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.

TitanHope
03-20-2009, 05:42 PM
You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.

I disagree!!!

/incites discussion

roscoesdad27
03-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Top three looks pretty solid. Top 2 I don't think can be argued with at all.....I'd consider moving Ray above Singletary though, but that could really go either way by me.

ray has mike beat in every statistical category...he's bigger, faster and stronger....he has every bit the intangibles and then some too.

1a) ray lewis
1b) l.t.

roscoesdad27
03-20-2009, 05:46 PM
bart scott will be there someday

he will go the way of ed hartwell, jamie sharper and ad. thomas...overrated from playing next to the great ray lewis.

roscoesdad27
03-20-2009, 05:47 PM
I might be the only one here to say this but i really dont see a 3-4 outside rush linebacker to be a prototypical linebacker he is more of a DE. Dont get me wrong LT was one of the best ever to play football but i see someone like a Mike Singletary more of a true linebacker then LT.

i would love to see someones argument that mike is better than ray...or even close.

roscoesdad27
03-20-2009, 05:49 PM
Zach Thomas could be on there too. He actually has been playing as long as Lewis and has even more tackles, although his sack/INT numbers aren't as good.


no where close to the intangibles....not even close.

Ravens1991
03-20-2009, 05:53 PM
Keith Rivers was top in the NFL in tackles before he got hurt and he wasnt the best OLB in the game. Some people claim tackles are the most meaningless stat in football, I dont agree with that but I dont think you can say whoever is a better LB because of tackles. Because say there is one above average LB in the NFL but is getting 5 tackles but they are all stopping a 5-8 yard gain. Then a LB gets 2 tackles but they are tackles for a loss. Do you understand what I am trying to say

the decider13
03-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Derrick Thomas should be higher...Nitchske should be on here, lewis should move down a few spots. And Jack Ham...that's about it.

ironman4579
03-20-2009, 06:35 PM
You guys don't want to know my list, I only have maybe 2 maybe 3 old timers on that list, as far as I'm concerned very few, I mean very few players from before the 80's could play intodays NFL, but thats another discussion for another day.

I respect what they did for the game they dominanted their era, but in todays NFL, if you took those exact same players exactly as they were very few if any would succeed today. Thats all I'm saying.

I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?

roscoesdad27
03-20-2009, 06:49 PM
I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?

i agree with this...basically the average player of today is better than the average player of yesterday BUT superstars transcend...butkus would be a BEAST 3-4 ilb.

ironman4579
03-20-2009, 06:55 PM
i agree with this...basically the average player of today is better than the average player of yesterday BUT superstars transcend...butkus would be a BEAST 3-4 ilb.

Let's be honest here, it's not like Butkus was too small to play in todays game. The guy was like 6'3" 245 and could run. I'm not a Bears fan, but I love me some Butkus.

The Legend
03-20-2009, 07:03 PM
10.Derrick Thomas
9.Chuck Bednarik
8.Jack Ham
7.Junior Seau
6.Ray Nitschke
5.Jack Lambert
4.Mike Singletary
3.Ray Lewis
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor

Bengalsrocket
03-20-2009, 09:23 PM
I'd wager a guy like Dick Butkus would be dominant in just about any era. But beyond that, you have to consider that if these guys were playing today, they would have all the benefits that players enjoy now, like strength and conditioning programs, dietary supplements, etc. I don't think anyone's talking about just time warping someone in and saying "go dominate." Of course they'd struggle. Some of these guys barely lifted a weight during their careers. Are we going to give them leather helmets too?

This. no matter how good a player is today, we're constantly progressing as a sport and thus you have to consider what past players lacked. Now, consider what they would gain by being in today's NFL.

A guy like Dick Butkus would have every advantage / disadvantage that today's NFL has.

GBahDunka
03-20-2009, 09:33 PM
I think before its all said and done Patrick Willis will be on this list.

JonasBlane
03-21-2009, 01:13 AM
10.Derrick Thomas
9.Chuck Bednarik
8.Jack Ham
7.Junior Seau
6.Ray Nitschke
5.Jack Lambert
4.Mike Singletary
3.Ray Lewis
2.Dick Butkus
1.Lawrence Taylor

I like this list... Derrick Brooks needs to be on it though, but I can't think of anybody to take off. I think I like him over Derrick Thomas though... But it would be just barely.

Jack Ham needs to be in the top 10 though.

wogitalia
03-21-2009, 03:53 AM
I don't buy the whole game has changed that much thing. You can trace it back with players who cross over eras, guys like Ray Lewis who have been good for a decade can take you back to the previous generation, Ray now is slower than he was in his prime but is every bit as good as he was as a rookie when he crosses over with other linebackers who likewise cross over going back. It's not like the year 2000 came around and anyone who was playing before it was instantly no good and anyone who came after was better. Looking at other positions, guys like Jerry Rice managed to go through 3 eras and still be damn good even when he was noticeably slower towards the end.

The thing is that as the game/times change, players adapt, these past greats were great for a reason, they worked harder and had more natural talent than their peers, they would be the same today, they would have all the advantages, they would work their asses off, they would be reckless with their own bodies, the same way that Rice was good in the 80 and the 90s he was still relevant in the early 2000s, the game hasn't changed so much that someone who was good in the 80s wouldn't have been just as good in the 2000s if they were born 20 years later, just doesn't work that way for me.

Sure if you go far enough back you can probably find some guys who wouldn't compete, if you go back to the point where sports weren't paying enough for anyone to make a career or where it was borderline amateur or where people were excluded, you can find guys who wouldn't be able to play today, but if you are going to pluck a guy from one era, you have to factor in the differences in technology and knowledge. Imagine those greats of the 60s and 70s with the kind of information on tendencies that players have today, backing up their instincts with actual knowledge of whats going to happen at certain times.

no love
03-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I think before its all said and done Patrick Willis will be on this list.

I hope to god this is true. But it's way to early for this talk.

Although Mike Singletary has been quoted as saying that Willis is better than he was.

Patrick Willis is the one reason I wish we could switch to a 4-3. IMO he would be able to dominate more consistently in a 4-3. He is an undersized 3-4 ILb that still manages to be one of the best in the game...

fondoffilm
03-21-2009, 01:36 PM
Hmm...

Ted Hendricks? Sam Huff? Randy Gradishar?

flave1969
03-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Hmm...

Ted Hendricks? Sam Huff? Randy Gradishar?

Agreed, also would like to mention Chris Hanburger, not Top 10 but probably the only 9 time Pro Bowler,4 time All Pro no one ever heard off. Played alongside Butkus in 4 of those Pro Bowls also.

ironman4579
03-21-2009, 02:44 PM
I hope to god this is true. But it's way to early for this talk.

Although Mike Singletary has been quoted as saying that Willis is better than he was.

Patrick Willis is the one reason I wish we could switch to a 4-3. IMO he would be able to dominate more consistently in a 4-3. He is an undersized 3-4 ILb that still manages to be one of the best in the game...

Don't be surprised if you see San Fran heading that way....................

Paranoidmoonduck
03-21-2009, 02:51 PM
San Francisco played more 43 than 34 after Singletary took over, as a recall. I think they're going to show a lot of front, but they definitely not an 34 exclusive defense.

katnip
03-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Yea.. It looks good, based on what that episode showed and said

Jakey
03-29-2009, 05:21 PM
Wheres Lamarr Woodley?!?!?!?

This list fails/

rockio42
03-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Why is that?

and

Anyone think there is anyone who should be on the list that isn't?

Jack Ham probably should be though I love the that Derrick Brooks is on the list

OneToughGame
03-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Zach Thomas could be on there too. He actually has been playing as long as Lewis and has even more tackles, although his sack/INT numbers aren't as good.

I loved watching Zach Thomas back in Miami. Tatupu really reminds me of him but just not the "tackle machine" Thomas was just yet.

AJHawk50
03-30-2009, 12:47 PM
I think Derrick Thomas should be moved up, but I'm also a little biased. :P