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LookItsAlDavis
03-20-2009, 11:53 AM
I found this story earlier, and I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11528497/rss

I don't really follow the guy around much, but I know he's a good offensive mind. Does anyone else agree with me and Lombardi that it's somewhat surprising that this guy doesn't have a job? Coaching the 49er's offensive talent, or lack thereof into the 13th-ranked passing offense has to be worth something. I wouldn't have minded him being hired as a passing-game coordinator for Oakland. Would you want him on your staff?

nobodyinparticular
03-20-2009, 12:04 PM
Isn't Martz a fairly prickly character who thinks incredibly highly of himself?

phlysac
03-20-2009, 12:13 PM
I don't think you'd easily find a 49er fan who was upset with the passing game he was able to install in San Francisco. Unfortunately, his scheme made the QBs sitting ducks on their 7+ step drops and 20 yard dig routes. In order to better protect against the pass rush, he kept Vernon Davis in to block and continued using 4 WR sets. There were several instances this season where the 49ers were leading and instead of utilizing Frank Gore to help run out the clock he continued passing the ball. Once Coach Singletary became interim, Martz offense was reigned-in and became a more effective, more ball-control style of offense which saw the 49ers win games. According to Singletary, Martz was unwilling to adapt to this style of offense full-time and that is why he was fired.

I believe he is a tremendously talented offensive mind. Unfortunately, I feel that many teams are weary of his style of offense and the tremendous difficulty it has shown to protect a teams QB as well as utilize all of the talent on the field.

Ness
03-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Isn't Martz a fairly prickly character who thinks incredibly highly of himself?

Well I'm not sure exactly, but I do believe there is a consensus that what you said may be partly correct, that his ego may be big or that his persona just doesn't always click the right way with people. The NFL is a business, but it is still important the way you come across to other people. Martz may have burned one too many bridges in this fashion.

Borat
03-20-2009, 12:27 PM
Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.

FlyingElvis
03-20-2009, 12:54 PM
I have never, ever been so irritated or baffled by the play selection & clock management of one single coach in my life - until Martz came along.

And it's not even like I see that many of his games since the Rams, Lions, and 49ers are not exactly top choices for nationally broadcast games.

IDK if it is his ego or something else, but he always seems incapable of utilizing the run game. While I agree the "Run 1st" type mentality is wrong if you have the right personnel, it is still important to run the ball enough to keep the D honest.

He sucks as a playcaller & manager. I would have no problem putting his offensive brilliance to work, but not if he has any say in play selection on Sunday.

jj45
03-20-2009, 12:55 PM
He does think highly of himself but he did win some rings but I agree he would do better in college he can be mike leach

bearsfan_51
03-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.
I don't think his ego would allow him to coach in college. It seems like most NFL people consider college ball simplistic.

I agree that he would do well though.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-20-2009, 01:45 PM
I found this story earlier, and I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11528497/rss

I don't really follow the guy around much, but I know he's a good offensive mind. Does anyone else agree with me and Lombardi that it's somewhat surprising that this guy doesn't have a job? Coaching the 49er's offensive talent, or lack thereof into the 13th-ranked passing offense has to be worth something. I wouldn't have minded him being hired as a passing-game coordinator for Oakland. Would you want him on your staff?

I always loved Mike Martz. I know he has his faults but he and Norv Turner really have modernized the Air Croyell system. There must be something more to the story because it's a fraternity in the NFL among coaches. For him to not get picked up really means something. Either he thinks highly of himself, which turns off coaches, or he did something to make a bad name of himself among his peers.

Ness
03-20-2009, 01:57 PM
He does think highly of himself but he did win some rings but I agree he would do better in college he can be mike leach

Mike Martz won one Super Bowl ring as an offensive coordinator.

CC.SD
03-20-2009, 03:24 PM
Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.

His gimmick offense won a Super Bowl, and nearly a second one. It's not a gimmick if it's been effective at the absolute highest level.

Calvin & Kevin
03-20-2009, 03:35 PM
Here's an easy analogy to understand: Martz is the Jeff George of coaches.

His talents will get your team a lot of passing yards but he will absolutely refuse to make what he does work with what the overall team wants to do. He will stick to his thing at all costs - even at the cost of winning.

Now, HE will say that doing what he does gives the team the best chance to win, but that's only true if the whole team adjusts to everything he wants. And he's too much of a prick to get everyone pulling in his direction enough to get all the things he wants.

CC.SD
03-20-2009, 03:37 PM
Here's an easy analogy to understand: Martz is the Jeff George of coaches.

His talents will get your team a lot of passing yards but he will absolutely refuse to make what he does work with what the overall team wants to do. He will stick to his thing at all costs - even at the cost of winning.

Now, HE will say that doing what he does gives the team the best chance to win, but that's only true if the whole team adjusts to everything he wants. And he's too much of a prick to get everyone pulling in his direction enough to get all the things he wants.

Lions would have passed on Calvin without Martz's well documented prodding and begging. I get what you're saying, but let's face it a Jeff George comparison is too harsh for someone who has had so much success in the NFL.

Borat
03-20-2009, 03:43 PM
His gimmick offense won a Super Bowl, and nearly a second one. It's not a gimmick if it's been effective at the absolute highest level.

My bad. His offense is conventional. Yeah, not really.

Calvin & Kevin
03-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Lions would have passed on Calvin without Martz's well documented prodding and begging. I get what you're saying, but let's face it a Jeff George comparison is too harsh for someone who has had so much success in the NFL.

That is by no means a sure thing. Millen as we know showed an unhealthy obsession with WR's well before Martz showed up. And anyway, look how even after that, Martz still had problems - saying for instance that the Lions "needed two tackles" because the ones he had were pissed about being put out there play after play to block seven-step-drop, 20 yard square in passing plays with no help, no hot routes and no audibles allowed. (Yes, the tackles also sucked, but that's beside the point)

CC.SD
03-20-2009, 04:11 PM
My bad. His offense is conventional. Yeah, not really.

Hm we may have to find a middle ground. :D

Brent
03-20-2009, 04:27 PM
He'd be awful in college. No college QB could keep up with the constant adding of plays every day.

619
03-20-2009, 04:30 PM
Some coaches are just not meant for college. Martz is one of them.

CC.SD
03-20-2009, 04:30 PM
He'd be awful in college. No college QB could keep up with the constant adding of plays every day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/2008-0808-MattBarkley.jpg/200px-2008-0808-MattBarkley.jpg

You know it'd be awesome.

MarioPalmer
03-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Coming from a St.Louis Rams fan, this guy is garbage, he is a horrid judge of talent, a terribly egotistical maniac and he has problems not being the boss of bosses. He hates being told what to do, and it's his way or the highway. The guy is a bum, if he could for one second not be such a dick, and actually just go back to coaching and not worry about all the other BS he would be a great QB coach, actually he'd be a genius QB coach, but he is such a douche that it's impossible for him to be just a coach.

Geo
03-20-2009, 05:35 PM
I have to admit, I wonder about Martz as a potential successor to Tom Moore as offensive coordinator for the Colts, should Moore retire soon (supposedly he considered it this offseason but wanted to keep coaching).

Martz would have to tweak his offense a bit, letting Peyton adjust at the line to improve plays. But, even though it was only the Pro Bowl setting and a week of basic offense/defense, I thought Peyton had a good chemisty with fellow Coryell branchee Norv Turner and his offense at the 2008 Pro Bowl.

Martz not pounding the ball isn't the end of the world imo, running the ball is overrated. But he needs an offensive line that can pass protect and a quarterback to deliver the ball quickly, which the Colts do have.

Bucs_Rule
03-20-2009, 08:18 PM
Martz doesn't seem like a Colts kind of guy.

Brent
03-20-2009, 08:26 PM
I have to admit, I wonder about Martz as a potential successor to Tom Moore as offensive coordinator for the Colts, should Moore retire soon (supposedly he considered it this offseason but wanted to keep coaching).

Martz would have to tweak his offense a bit, letting Peyton adjust at the line to improve plays. But, even though it was only the Pro Bowl setting and a week of basic offense/defense, I thought Peyton had a good chemisty with fellow Coryell branchee Norv Turner and his offense at the 2008 Pro Bowl.

Martz not pounding the ball isn't the end of the world imo, running the ball is overrated. But he needs an offensive line that can pass protect and a quarterback to deliver the ball quickly, which the Colts do have.
Martz as the Colts OC would be scary. Peyton would love it.

phlysac
03-20-2009, 08:54 PM
I don't think Peyton would love it AT ALL. Peyton is used to calling his own plays at the line and audibling ad nauseum. Martz system doesn't allow for audibles. Manning's "happy feet" could really be exposed on deep drops with minimal protection. Dallas Clark would be eliminated as a target in the offense. All things that are against everything the Colts have been best at.

Also, despite both Martz and Turner descending from the Coryell tree, their systems are almost entirely different. Turner's system utilizes a strong running game to accomodate play-action as well as consistent usage of the tight end. Martz rarely uses play-action and the TE in his offense is virtually non-existent.

NY+Giants=NYG
03-20-2009, 09:09 PM
I don't think Peyton would love it AT ALL. Peyton is used to calling his own plays at the line and audibling ad nauseum. Martz system doesn't allow for audibles. Manning's "happy feet" could really be exposed on deep drops with minimal protection. Dallas Clark would be eliminated as a target in the offense. All things that are against everything the Colts have been best at.

Also, despite both Martz and Turner descending from the Coryell tree, their systems are almost entirely different. Turner's system utilizes a strong running game to accomodate play-action as well as consistent usage of the tight end. Martz rarely uses play-action and the TE in his offense is virtually non-existent.


Yeah actually all 3 main Coryell guys have a different twist from Turner to Martz to Al Saunders. Only thing Turner and Martz have in common is the terminology which is something my team used when I coached. I love the use of the terminology for that system. Alot of the passing concepts for the system are the same but utilized in different ways due to formation differences and such.

holt_bruce81
03-20-2009, 10:45 PM
He has got in worse and worse as a OC. He gets his Quarterback killed. He doesn't really use a running game anymore.

Ness
03-20-2009, 11:06 PM
I found this story earlier, and I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11528497/rss

I don't really follow the guy around much, but I know he's a good offensive mind. Does anyone else agree with me and Lombardi that it's somewhat surprising that this guy doesn't have a job? Coaching the 49er's offensive talent, or lack thereof into the 13th-ranked passing offense has to be worth something. I wouldn't have minded him being hired as a passing-game coordinator for Oakland. Would you want him on your staff?

You know, I think Al Davis would like the style of Mike Martz, since for some reason Davis is in love with the vertical passing game. Problem is, I don't think that city is big enough for both of their ego's.

Iamcanadian
03-21-2009, 12:16 AM
If your offense stinks, this guy can rectify it quickly and if he has enough talent he can win a SB for you. He's a solid OC if you want to throw the ball as the main feature of your offense, if you want to be a run first team, he is the wrong guy to hire.
Sure he has an ego, so do most of the successful coaches in the NFL. Singletary obviously wants to have a run first offense so he let Martz go but we'll see how Hill does without him. Don't be shocked if Hill falls flat on his face without Martz! He has a way of getting a lot of production out of extremely mediocre QB's.

phlysac
03-21-2009, 12:38 AM
Singletary obviously wants to have a run first offense so he let Martz go but we'll see how Hill does without him. Don't be shocked if Hill falls flat on his face without Martz! He has a way of getting a lot of production out of extremely mediocre QB's.

This isn't a post defending Shaun Hill's abilities as a QB but Shaun Hill took over as QB when Singletary became interim. Martz scheme was reighned-in significantly under Coach Sing, thus you can't say with certainty that Martz's scheme was responsible for Hill's success. Hill is best suited for a conservative style offense which Martz begrudgingly ran the final 8 weeks of the season.

no love
03-21-2009, 01:08 AM
Mike Martz is a genius offensive mind in the passing game and a terrible game manager and talent evaluator (I mean common... Trung Canndidate)

His teams with the proper personnel can be downright unstoppable and very balanced. The scheme is so aggressive that it can really put a defense on it's heels and keep them there for the whole game if the offense is executing.

However, his offense can lend itself to becoming a victim of it's own recklessness. Teams without the proper personnel can often lead to tons of three and outs, turnovers and sacks. This in turn leads to points for the other team and playing from behind. And when Martz gets behind he completely abandons the run game.

On a side note, Martz hardly uses audibles so I can't imagine Peyton liking an offense like that...

Burger
03-21-2009, 04:38 PM
Martz would let Peyton do whatever he wants. I would Hire Peyton Manning as a coach.