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Thunder&Lightning
03-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Who you got for NBA MVP?

bored of education
03-24-2009, 08:38 PM
kobe. gtfo

YAYareaRB
03-24-2009, 08:40 PM
Hmmm.. I guess Kobe is totally out of the picture. I'll take Wade.

Thunder&Lightning
03-24-2009, 08:40 PM
My fellow bostonian who I hae made sandwhices for before... Im sorry but Kobe is out of the picture now...

P-L
03-24-2009, 08:40 PM
LeBron, but barely. Both have nearly identical stats but LeBron is the better rebounder and turns the ball over less. The Cavs are also the #1 seed in the East and 32-1 at home.

Shane P. Hallam
03-24-2009, 08:42 PM
LeBron easily. The Cavs are much better than the Heat.

SeanTaylorRIP
03-24-2009, 08:44 PM
LeBron easily. The Cavs are much better than the Heat.

And the Heat also have much less talent and were the 2nd worst team in the league last year.

Dr. Gonzo
03-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Dwade does it all on his own. It is damn close but I think the Cavs would at least be in playoff contention without Lebron while the Heat would likely be at or near dead last. It is a really tough call and usually I hate using the 'he has more talent around him' argument but Wade just does so much for his team I think it is him. I flip flop by the day but today I would give it to Wade.

Shane P. Hallam
03-24-2009, 08:46 PM
And the Heat also have much less talent and were the 2nd worst team in the league last year.

Doesn't matter. In award races, team player, a team's seed, etc, matters a lot.

TACKLE
03-24-2009, 08:47 PM
LEBRON. He's just been so great all around this year. He's been the most complete player in the NBA all season.

Here's a good article and perspective on LeBron's season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090324

SeanTaylorRIP
03-24-2009, 08:48 PM
Oh I know LeBron will win it, it's a lock, I mean ESPN is already saying that LeBron's season this year is the greatest season ever played by a single player, but if I were choosing MVP I would choose Dwade. He is the Miami Heat. Other than their head coaches nice hair, they don't really have much going for them.

art vandelay
03-24-2009, 08:57 PM
LeBron will win but Wade does more with less.

jballa838
03-24-2009, 09:05 PM
should be: Wade
Will be: LeBron
in my heart: KD35

SeanTaylorRIP
03-24-2009, 09:06 PM
should be: Wade
Will be: LeBron
in my heart: KD35

lol to the last part. Stilll luv him tho.

Dr. Gonzo
03-24-2009, 09:07 PM
Durant is the best player to start a long term franchise in NBA 2K9 so that may help his case.

tjsunstein
03-24-2009, 09:09 PM
I voted Wade. Man crush considering I picked him 5th overall in fantasy this year. :D

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-24-2009, 09:09 PM
I don't understand the Wade love. LeBron did the exact same thing last year, Kobe's resume last year wasn't nearly as impressive as LBJ's this year, and LeBron didn't win.

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Wade.

princefielder28
03-24-2009, 09:10 PM
Wade is the MVP!

SimonRath
03-24-2009, 09:11 PM
its easily lebron to me

SimonRath
03-24-2009, 09:14 PM
And the Heat also have much less talent and were the 2nd worst team in the league last year.

which means wade has more chances to score like crazy then lebron does

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-24-2009, 09:18 PM
So I'm assuming everyone saying Wade now would have voted LeBron last year? Because Wade is literally having the same season this year LeBron had last year. LeBron's year this year is actually better than Wade's, too. Pts+Rebs+AST, TS%, PER, ORTG, DRTG, Win Shares, etc. LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Bar none.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&=j&p1=jamesle01&y1=2009&=w&p2=wadedw01&y2=2009&=j&p3=jamesle01&y3=2008&=

Dr. Gonzo
03-24-2009, 09:19 PM
So I'm assuming everyone saying Wade now would have voted LeBron last year? Because Wade is literally having the same season this year LeBron had last year. LeBron's year this year is actually better than Wade's, too. Pts+Rebs+AST, TS%, PER, ORTG, DRTG, Win Shares, etc. LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. Bar none.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&=j&p1=jamesle01&y1=2009&=w&p2=wadedw01&y2=2009&=j&p3=jamesle01&y3=2008&=

Yes, I would have gone with Lebron last year.

tjsunstein
03-24-2009, 09:21 PM
We all know Lebron is gonna win but the media likes the cinderella chance that Wade has being that hes coming off injury and how he dominated the Olympics. Realistically, Lebron wins to me but I would like to see Wade get it.

bantx
03-24-2009, 09:38 PM
Lebron James

ChezPower4
03-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Lebron, If the Heat were on of the Top 3 teams in the east then Wade would have a much better case. As of right now Lebron is the pretty clear cut MVP.

comahan
03-24-2009, 09:47 PM
Kobe Bryant.

Shane P. Hallam
03-24-2009, 09:48 PM
Where is the Scola love?

CashmoneyDrew
03-24-2009, 10:07 PM
Blake Griffin.

cdub11
03-24-2009, 10:57 PM
should be: Wade
Will be: LeBron
in my heart: KD35

I agree on this

sweetness34
03-24-2009, 11:11 PM
Dwade does it all on his own. It is damn close but I think the Cavs would at least be in playoff contention without Lebron while the Heat would likely be at or near dead last. It is a really tough call and usually I hate using the 'he has more talent around him' argument but Wade just does so much for his team I think it is him. I flip flop by the day but today I would give it to Wade.

That's my view right there. It's hard to argue against LeBron as his team is the best in the East right now but I feel if we are talking about most "valuable" player, that would go to Wade. His team is dog **** without him and he has them in the middle of the Eastern Conference. LeBron's squad would at least be competitive pretty much every night.

I also happen to think Wade is the best player in the league right now anyway when he's healthy so that's another reason why I'd take Wade as the MVP this year.

sweetness34
03-24-2009, 11:17 PM
Lebron, If the Heat were on of the Top 3 teams in the east then Wade would have a much better case. As of right now Lebron is the pretty clear cut MVP.

I hate, hate, hate this argument. LeBron has a very good supporting cast around him this year. Williams is an all-star, West is a very solid weapon, Z was playing very well before he got hurt, Wallace seems to have found the fountain of youth, and they have a bench as well.

Without Wade, the Heat aren't even close to the playoffs right now, while I feel the Cavs without LeBron would be a a low East seed.

I don't think there is a right answer to this question, you can make a case for both but if we are talking about Most "Valuable" Player I think that's Wade and what he's done with a team that had the worst record in the league last year.

He has a lot more pressure to bring his A game every night than LeBron does. If Wade doesn't show up, the Heat have a very good chance at losing because their roster really isn't good at all. If LeBron has an off night he has guys who can pick him up.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 12:04 AM
I hate, hate, hate this argument. LeBron has a very good supporting cast around him this year. Williams is an all-star, West is a very solid weapon, Z was playing very well before he got hurt, Wallace seems to have found the fountain of youth, and they have a bench as well.

Without Wade, the Heat aren't even close to the playoffs right now, while I feel the Cavs without LeBron would be a a low East seed.

I don't think there is a right answer to this question, you can make a case for both but if we are talking about Most "Valuable" Player I think that's Wade and what he's done with a team that had the worst record in the league last year.

He has a lot more pressure to bring his A game every night than LeBron does. If Wade doesn't show up, the Heat have a very good chance at losing because their roster really isn't good at all. If LeBron has an off night he has guys who can pick him up.

I disagree. If you break it down a little bit:

Mo Williams. I love him. But this was the same guy who PG'd Milwaukee to the lottery. His PG skills are very limited and he's a SG trapped in a PG's body. Great shooter, but LeBron gives him shots. That Milwaukee team had a very comparable C to Ilgauskas(Bogut is sick, don't hate. He doesn't have Z's jumper but he can defend and pass out of the block). Charlie V is a talented scorer, too.

Delonte West. I also love him. Knocks down shots(although he's in a slump now), is a nasty, nasty defender. Good PG skills, too. But he's a little undersized for the position. Would probably be better as a bench player than a starting 2.

Ben Wallace. Old. Still can't score. Good rebounder and defender obviously, but not close to what he once was.

Z- Very good on the pick and pop with LeBron or Mo, can post up occasionally. Good defender and rebounder. But I wouldn't want him as the second best player on a team for the whole year because he's old and fragile. He just wouldn't hold up shouldering that much of a load.

The team has a lot of weaknesses without LeBron James. It has no one who can guard bigger wing players, no real playmaking threat, a seemingly large rebounding void, and most importantly inside scoring. LeBron gets most of Cleveland's points in the paint on his drives, and he, along with Wade, is the best driver and finisher in the NBA. He's not gonna be replaced like that.

Also, let's keep something in mind here. LeBron James is playing out of this world right now. Did you guys know he's averaging 31/9.6/9.6 over the past nine games, all of which have been wins? That's un-*******-believable. He's also their best defender. The best defender on one of the best defensive teams in the NBA. He's gonna be All-NBA defense this year. He's also more efficient offensively than Wade(higher TS% and ast:to ratio). I really don't see, statistically, a way Wade is better than LeBron. It's close, but I don't see anything to make me say "Wade is better than LeBron." Especially since LeBron did the "put up crazy stats and carry your ****** team to 45 wins" thing last season.

Also: The Heat only sucked so much last year because Wade missed so much time and they tanked on purpose. If Wade had have played, they would have probably finished in 6th-8th, and not added Beastley.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 12:59 AM
Mo Williams PG'd his team into the lottery? Really. It wasn't the fact that last year they just weren't a good basketball team? And while Bogut was solid last year before his injury this season he was playing very good basketball, shooting at close to 58% and grabbing 10+ boards.

Mo's an all-star for a reason, he can flat out play basketball. So while you say LeBron gets him shots I'll counter and say that he's taken pressure of LeBron to score and distribute. Mo's a very good player in his own right and is a perfect compliment to James.

I love West, guy can light it up from the outside and as you said is a sick defender, very underrated player.

Z is having a very good season as well and so is Ben Wallace, even if he is old.

Wade's stat line is 30, 7, and 5 and he's also shooting at a higher percentage than LeBron is. Turnovers are higher on Wade's end and that's one thing he needs to improve on.

Over the last 9 games Wade is averaging 34, 8, and 5 and shooting around 50% if my math is right, his team is 6-3 during that stretch, as "insane" as LeBrons 31, 9, and 9 is, Wade's individual stats are right there with him and over an 11 game clip he goes to 35, 9, and 6, which is on par with what LeBron has done.

I still think it's really apples and oranges. I won't complain one bit if LeBron gets the MVP but Wade has done some pretty remarkable things with his team this year and so has LeBron; best team in the East and the best defensive team in the NBA but if we're talking about "carrying" their teams that's what Wade did this year and he's having the best season of his career stats wise with a limited roster. Who's Wade's complimentary player been all season? Haslem? O'Neal? Chalmers? Beasley? Moon?

So the argument goes back to last year. Wade has 11 games left and has 38 wins right now, I think he can grab 7 more and do the "carry your team to 45 ******* wins" too. The East is stronger than it was last year as well at the top which I think you have to take into account.

Who's going to win the MVP? LeBron, no doubt about it. Team success + individual success = MVP Trophy.

I think Wade should get the MVP because I think he's done more with less and has more pressure on him every night to put up big numbers.

Just my two cents.

Shane P. Hallam
03-25-2009, 04:36 AM
Mo Williams PG'd his team into the lottery? Really. It wasn't the fact that last year they just weren't a good basketball team? And while Bogut was solid last year before his injury this season he was playing very good basketball, shooting at close to 58% and grabbing 10+ boards.

Mo's an all-star for a reason, he can flat out play basketball. So while you say LeBron gets him shots I'll counter and say that he's taken pressure of LeBron to score and distribute. Mo's a very good player in his own right and is a perfect compliment to James.

I love West, guy can light it up from the outside and as you said is a sick defender, very underrated player.

Z is having a very good season as well and so is Ben Wallace, even if he is old.

Wade's stat line is 30, 7, and 5 and he's also shooting at a higher percentage than LeBron is. Turnovers are higher on Wade's end and that's one thing he needs to improve on.

Over the last 9 games Wade is averaging 34, 8, and 5 and shooting around 50% if my math is right, his team is 6-3 during that stretch, as "insane" as LeBrons 31, 9, and 9 is, Wade's individual stats are right there with him and over an 11 game clip he goes to 35, 9, and 6, which is on par with what LeBron has done.

I still think it's really apples and oranges. I won't complain one bit if LeBron gets the MVP but Wade has done some pretty remarkable things with his team this year and so has LeBron; best team in the East and the best defensive team in the NBA but if we're talking about "carrying" their teams that's what Wade did this year and he's having the best season of his career stats wise with a limited roster. Who's Wade's complimentary player been all season? Haslem? O'Neal? Chalmers? Beasley? Moon?

So the argument goes back to last year. Wade has 11 games left and has 38 wins right now, I think he can grab 7 more and do the "carry your team to 45 ******* wins" too. The East is stronger than it was last year as well at the top which I think you have to take into account.

Who's going to win the MVP? LeBron, no doubt about it. Team success + individual success = MVP Trophy.

I think Wade should get the MVP because I think he's done more with less and has more pressure on him every night to put up big numbers.

Just my two cents.

If Wade put up the same numbers, but the Heat were the 9th team in the East, would you think he still should win it?

the decider13
03-25-2009, 07:47 AM
I'm with the other guys...Kevin Durant!

Maybe next year...this year, Dwade

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 01:22 PM
If Wade put up the same numbers, but the Heat were the 9th team in the East, would you think he still should win it?

Nope, but the same argument can be said about LeBron. If he was averaging what he is and his team was 4th or 5th in the East would he win the MVP? I'd say no.

Again I think both are deserving, moreso than Kobe this year. I know they won't do it but I'd almost want to see a co-MVP. Chris made a very good argument for LeBron and I see where he's coming from and Wade has had an incredible year as well, a year after he didn't play much due to his injury. I can make a case for each.

LeBron - 29 points, 7 assists, and 7 rebounds a game. Absolutely ridiculous numbers. Shooting 48% from the floor, has a better assist/turnover ratio than Wade, his team is the best in the East and he's one of the better defenders on the best defensive team in the league (I still think he's overhyped as a defender though).

Wade - 29.9 points (so basically he'll be at 30 when the season is done), 7 assists, and 5 rebounds a game. Shooting at a better clip than LeBron is, lead his team from the worst in the league to the #5 seed in the East without much help around him. I think his team has talent but Chalmers and Beasley really are inconsistent young players right now. More pressure every night to perform at a high level for his team to win.

I've had a chance to watch both at least 15+ times this season and I think if we are talking about the most valuable player to their team I would go with Wade because his team would not be in the playoffs without him, they are a better team than last year but that's not saying much. You take LeBron off this years Cavs team and they are probably a low East seed.

I just look at it this way, Wade has a lot less room for error this season than LeBron does because his supporting cast is not very good, which is why "value" wise I'd give it to Wade but LeBron's going to win it.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 02:37 PM
LeBron > Kobe > Wade

If the heat weren't a bottom half of the east team Wade would probably move up ahead of kobe but right now his team is too average for him to be MVP.

619
03-25-2009, 02:50 PM
LeBron > Kobe > Wade

If the heat weren't a bottom half of the east team Wade would probably move up ahead of kobe but right now his team is too average for him to be MVP.

That's what actually makes him so appealing to the majority of people. In no way should we penalize him for his team's status unless, of course, they play their way out of a playoff seed from here on out, imo.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 03:00 PM
That's what actually makes him so appealing to the majority of people. In no way should we penalize him for his team's status unless, of course, they play their way out of a playoff seed from here on out, imo.

This is a star league, a star worthy of MVP should be able to get his team a better seed then the 5th or 6th seed. I mean are the heat without wade really all that less talented than the cavs sin LeBron?

Fogartynyy2789
03-25-2009, 03:02 PM
This is a star league, a star worthy of MVP should be able to get his team a better seed then the 5th or 6th seed. I mean are the heat without wade really all that less talented than the cavs sin LeBron?


I agree over LBJ over Wade, but Jamaal Magloire is currently the Heat's starting center. It doesn't get much worse then that.

P-L
03-25-2009, 03:02 PM
I think both teams are garbage without their star player. You move LeBron and Wade to the Western conference and neither the Heat nor the Cavs make the playoffs imo.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:02 PM
LeBron > Kobe > Wade

If the heat weren't a bottom half of the east team Wade would probably move up ahead of kobe but right now his team is too average for him to be MVP.

IMHO MVP should be based on what the player does for the team. LeBron helped take (with the assistance of other guys who are playing very well) a playoff team to the #1 seed.

Wade took the worst team in the league with quite frankly minimal additions to the squad to the #5 seed in the East.

Kobe statistically is not having that great of a year. His points, assists, and FG% are all down and he has a very strong team beside him, when Bynum is healthy they are on paper the best and deepest team in the league.

So you have to ask...should the MVP be more for individual performance or team performance and I say it should be a mix, which is why Kobe is third on my list behind LeBron and Wade. I'm going to get shot for this but Wade does more for his team than anyone else in the league in my opinion, that's why I have him #1 on my MVP list.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 03:07 PM
IMHO MVP should be based on what the player does for the team. LeBron helped take (with the assistance of other guys who are playing very well) a playoff team to the #1 seed.

Wade took the worst team in the league with quite frankly minimal additions to the squad to the #5 seed in the East.

Kobe statistically is not having that great of a year. His points, assists, and FG% are all down and he has a very strong team beside him, when Bynum is healthy they are on paper the best and deepest team in the league.

So you have to ask...should the MVP be more for individual performance or team performance and I say it should be a mix, which is why Kobe is third on my list behind LeBron and Wade. I'm going to get shot for this but Wade does more for his team than anyone else in the league in my opinion, that's why I have him #1 on my MVP list.

The heat were only that bad because they didn't have a healthy wade last season. If LeBron missed most of the season the cavs would be deciding whether Blake Griffin is the best pick for them. That's why I'm not buying wade over LBJ, neither team is very good beyond their star player, I see that argument against Kobe, but I think this has been one of his most efficient years in a while and that's a big reason why the lakers have been such an elite team all year.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:08 PM
This is a star league, a star worthy of MVP should be able to get his team a better seed then the 5th or 6th seed. I mean are the heat without wade really all that less talented than the cavs sin LeBron?

Cleveland has a much better roster than Miami does and I don't think it's really that close to be honest you. LeBron and Wade are having nearly identical seasons yet one is #1 in the East and the other is #5, that should tell you who has the better team around him right there.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 03:10 PM
Cleveland has a much better roster than Miami does and I don't think it's really that close to be honest you. LeBron and Wade are having nearly identical seasons yet one is #1 in the East and the other is #5, that should tell you who has the better team around him right there.

See I think the difference goes beyond the statistics, yes their stats are similar but to me the success of the cavs just proves how LBJ impacts the game more beyond his numbers than Wade does. I really don't think that Z, Ben Wallace, Sideshow Bob, wally world, delonte and mo are much better than O'Neal, haslem, Beasley, moon and chalmers.

P-L
03-25-2009, 03:12 PM
Cleveland has a much better roster than Miami does and I don't think it's really that close to be honest you. LeBron and Wade are having nearly identical seasons yet one is #1 in the East and the other is #5, that should tell you who has the better team around him right there.
I don't think that Miami minus Wade is 19 games worse than the Caviliers minus LeBron. That's just ridiculous.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:15 PM
The heat were only that bad because they didn't have a healthy wade last season. If LeBron missed most of the season the cavs would be deciding whether Blake Griffin is the best pick for them. That's why I'm not buying wade over LBJ, neither team is very good beyond their star player, I see that argument against Kobe, but I think this has been one of his most efficient years in a while and that's a big reason why the lakers have been such an elite team all year.

The Cavs would not be the worst team in the league without LeBron, I'll tell you that much right there. They would still be a competitive team and probably looking at the 8th slot in the playoffs because the East does not have a lot depth this year.

The Heat are horrible without Wade, they showed you that last season and even with the additions of Chalmers, O'Neal, and Beasley they still would suck. We haven't seen the Cavs without LeBron so it's tough to say but looking at the rosters, it's pretty easy to tell who has the better supporting cast. I would take Mo, Z, Wallace, West, Varejao, Gibson, Wally World, and the rest of what LeBron has over Chalmers, O'Neal, McGloire, Haslem, Beasley, Moon, Quinn, Head, and the rest of what Wade has.

We could sit here and argue this all day long which is why I still think they should just make it a co-MVP, but they never will. It also depends on how you define value. The Cavs went from what the #3 seed to the #1 seed, the Heat went from #2 pick in the draft to #5 seed in the East.

SimonRath
03-25-2009, 03:17 PM
I would take Mo, Z, Wallace, West, Varejao, Gibson, Wally World, and the rest of what LeBron has over Chalmers, O'Neal, McGloire, Haslem, Beasley, Moon, Quinn, Head, and the rest of what Wade has.

idk about that

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 03:18 PM
I think both teams are garbage without their star player. You move LeBron and Wade to the Western conference and neither the Heat nor the Cavs make the playoffs imo.


Well I just had a response typed up but then I realized you might mean something different. Do you mean the Heat and Cavs would miss the playoffs if they were the Seattle Cavs and the San Diego Heat? Or that if Wade and LeBron disappeared to the Western conference, their old teams would be left in the east and miss the playoffs?

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:19 PM
I don't think that Miami minus Wade is 19 games worse than the Caviliers minus LeBron. That's just ridiculous.

I think people highly underestimate how good the Cavs are as a team and what LeBron's supporting cast has done for him this year. You don't get the #1 seed if your supporting cast is mediocre, especially with teams like Orlando and Boston in your conference.

Until we see the Cavs without LeBron it's all speculation. We saw what Miami was without Wade, they were terrible. I honestly don't think Cleveland would come close to being as bad as Miami was last season.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:24 PM
See I think the difference goes beyond the statistics, yes their stats are similar but to me the success of the cavs just proves how LBJ impacts the game more beyond his numbers than Wade does. I really don't think that Z, Ben Wallace, Sideshow Bob, wally world, delonte and mo are much better than O'Neal, haslem, Beasley, moon and chalmers.

You can make that argument but Mo Williams is better than anything Wade has, period.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 03:24 PM
Wade's stat line is 30, 7, and 5 and he's also shooting at a higher percentage than LeBron is. Turnovers are higher on Wade's end and that's one thing he needs to improve on.

Wade is shooting a higher FG% yes but that's a flawed stat. LeBron takes more 3 pointers and completes them at a higher percentage. And a 3 is worth 150% of a 2. So by going to eFG%, which takes into account the value of a 3, LeBron is at .527 while Wade is at .517.

To take it even further, there's True Shooting Percentage, which takes into account free throws on top of it. Kind of like, if you had a player go 4-10, that's not good obviously. But if they shot 10 FTs, well they could have ended up with 18 points on their 10 shots, which is very good efficiency. And when we look at that number, Wade is at .573 while LeBron is at .586.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 03:26 PM
I think people highly underestimate how good the Cavs are as a team and what LeBron's supporting cast has done for him this year. You don't get the #1 seed if your supporting cast is mediocre, especially with teams like Orlando and Boston in your conference.

Until we see the Cavs without LeBron it's all speculation. We saw what Miami was without Wade, they were terrible. I honestly don't think Cleveland would come close to being as bad as Miami was last season.


We saw this year's Miami team without Wade take Boston(albeit a hobbled Boston) to overtime. Last year's Heat were horrible, with Wade or without him. Last year's Cavs were horrible without LeBron, 0-7. And every time he was on the bench they just looked lost. It's better this year though, obviously.

SimonRath
03-25-2009, 03:27 PM
You can make that argument but Mo Williams is better than anything Wade has, period.

yeah cuz lebron makes him better

619
03-25-2009, 03:30 PM
yeah cuz lebron makes him better

Statistically, he's on par with his last 2-3 seasons.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:32 PM
It hasn't been all Dwayne Wade either for the Heat, but I do think without a doubt LeBron has more help beside him than Wade does. Give Wade a guy like Mo Williams to play along side with and I think you'll see an improvement in wins and losses. Having a guy who can playmake and get his own shot takes so much pressure off LeBron, I would say the addition of Mo Williams is just as significant as the improvement of LeBron's defense or his ability to get his teammates involved.

Michael couldn't do it without Pippen and vice versa so it's not a slap in the face to LeBron to say that the reason his team is the best in the league is that he's got guys beside him he can trust. Wade can't do it by himself either.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 03:33 PM
Statistically, he's on par with his last 2-3 seasons.

He's been a lot more efficient. Not sure how this shows in the stats as I haven't looked at them but he took a lot more abd shots last year, this year with the attention LBJ gets Mo is getting a lot mroe good looks.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:35 PM
yeah cuz lebron makes him better

********, Mo's stats were actually better than they are this year in points, assists, and in FG%. I would flip this script and say that the addition of Mo Williams has made the Cavs a significantly better team.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 03:38 PM
He's been a lot more efficient. Not sure how this shows in the stats as I haven't looked at them but he took a lot more abd shots last year, this year with the attention LBJ gets Mo is getting a lot mroe good looks.

Yet his FG% is lower this year than last year on a much worse team....1.4% differential.

I mean I could say based on stats LeBron made him worse this year but that's just not the case. Mo's been a very important piece to their success this year, the guy's an all-star for a reason and he has taken a ton of pressure off James.

SimonRath
03-25-2009, 03:40 PM
********, Mo's stats were actually better than they are this year in points, assists, and in FG%. I would flip this script and say that the addition of Mo Williams has made the Cavs a significantly better team.

well duh Mo made the Cavs better, everyone knows that.
Im saying that Lebron makes Mo better cause he doesnt have to be a "true" point guard like he tried to be in MIL. If say Chalmers or Beasley were on the cavs then they would be better too.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 03:44 PM
********, Mo's stats were actually better than they are this year in points, assists, and in FG%. I would flip this script and say that the addition of Mo Williams has made the Cavs a significantly better team.


It definitely has. It finally gave Cleveland a legit second option, a player who would make the team look, at worst, semi-competent while LeBron was off the floor. There's no denying what Mo is. He's a great shooter/scorer that can play a little point guard.

And yes, he is better than anything on the heat that doesn't have an oddly spelled name. I'll also definitely agree that the Cavs have a considerably better supporting cast. I believe that LeBron is superior to Wade, but not so much so that if you traded them for each other, the Heat would be #1 and the Cavs fighting for the 4th seed.

I just think that a 20+ win improvement from 45 to 65+, that LeBron should lead the Cavs to is more impressive than a 30+ game improvement from 15 to 45-47. Especially when LeBron played 75 games last year, and Wade spent most of last year on the injured list. I believe Wade would have carried the Heat to at least 30 wins last year if he was healthy.

Splat
03-25-2009, 03:45 PM
should be: Wade
Will be: LeBron


My thoughts.

Hurricanes25
03-25-2009, 03:47 PM
Tough choice but I went with LeBron

Geo
03-25-2009, 03:49 PM
Should be Bron Bron.

But I'm going to say Chris Paul every year, tough cookies.

yourfavestoner
03-25-2009, 04:35 PM
If Kobe never got the MVP for what he did with the JV squad the Lakers put out in past years, you can't give it to Wade. Gotta give it to Lebron.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 04:42 PM
If Kobe never got the MVP for what he did with the JV squad the Lakers put out in past years, you can't give it to Wade. Gotta give it to Lebron.

I agree with this statement. Kobe did it in 05-06 especially, but really every year post Shaq until last year, LeBron did it last year, Wade's doing it last year. Neither have won/will win MVP for that.

scottyboy
03-25-2009, 04:45 PM
the Nets are ridiculously putrid without Devin Harris. like hardly a functioning NBA team. like it's VC, Sean WIlliams, CDR and Bropez vs all. It's Devin Harris, obviously.

oh come on, like you expected me not to have a homer statement?

And it's tough for me, both guys mean so much to their team...I'll have to think about it

Fogartynyy2789
03-25-2009, 05:29 PM
the Nets are ridiculously putrid without Devin Harris. like hardly a functioning NBA team. like it's VC, Sean WIlliams, CDR and Bropez vs all. It's Devin Harris, obviously.

oh come on, like you expected me not to have a homer statement?

And it's tough for me, both guys mean so much to their team...I'll have to think about it


They suck with him. Therefore David Lee is my MVP.

raiderfan_89
03-25-2009, 05:41 PM
Kobe.
That is all I have to say.

Shane P. Hallam
03-25-2009, 05:51 PM
Kobe.
That is all I have to say.

He wasn't an option :D

raiderfan_89
03-25-2009, 05:58 PM
He wasn't an option :D
haha.
I know, but who is arguing against me?

Vikes99ej
03-25-2009, 06:18 PM
I voted D-Wade. He carries that team.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 06:43 PM
They suck with him. Therefore David Lee is my MVP.

Or Gallinari because in the 7 games he got real PT we went 6-1 beating some quality opponents like the spurs, suns and someone else I'm forgetting.

sweetness34
03-25-2009, 07:40 PM
I have a question, is this poll for who you think should win the MVP or who you think will win the MVP?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-25-2009, 08:33 PM
Damn, anyone catch the Cavs-Nets game tonight? LeBron is unreal. That game almost slipped away but he took it over with timely shots and passes. M.V.P. It seemed like every shot was falling with him on the floor.