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The Legend
04-01-2009, 02:13 AM
Who would you take?
Jay Cutler Now or Michael Vick Before Jail?

BlindSite
04-01-2009, 02:18 AM
That depends if I want a decent passer or a simpleton who runs fast, is an ineffective passer, has been photographed in compromising situations and treats his fans like ****?

niel89
04-01-2009, 02:18 AM
I'd take the qb over the outstanding athlete.

Mr. Hero
04-01-2009, 02:26 AM
I love cutler so cutler, but I'd take Pre-Prison-Vick over jason cambell, Tarvaris jackson, Kyle Orton, Whom ever detroit threw under center, jeff garcia, jake delhomme, Shaun Hill, Matt Hassleback or Marc Bulger, and that's just in the NFC.

Addict
04-01-2009, 03:18 AM
I'd take Cutler. He's dreamy.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
04-01-2009, 06:57 AM
I hate Vick as a QB so I choose Cutler

Sveen
04-01-2009, 07:36 AM
Jay Cutler. No question. I do find Vick very fun to watch, but he ain't a better QB.

JUICE da Block Captain
04-01-2009, 08:29 AM
That depends if I want a decent passer or a simpleton who runs fast, is an ineffective passer, has been photographed in compromising situations and treats his fans like ****?

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/family/blog/baby-crying%20jpg.jpg

Gay Ork Wang
04-01-2009, 08:34 AM
I love cutler so cutler, but I'd take Pre-Prison-Vick over jason cambell, Tarvaris jackson, Kyle Orton, Whom ever detroit threw under center, jeff garcia, jake delhomme, Shaun Hill, Matt Hassleback or Marc Bulger, and that's just in the NFC.
Matt Hasslebeck was/is a better QB than Vick

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
04-01-2009, 08:36 AM
Lol @ this. Cutler is far better and I liked vick too

captainjack27
04-01-2009, 09:05 AM
Cutler definitely, but it's not as though Vick wouldn't have been a terrible player to have. Cutler is just the better choice.

vikes_28
04-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Cutler is a better QB. Vick is a better athlete. Put them together and they would make a hell of a QB.

The_Dude
04-01-2009, 10:47 AM
This one is easy... Cutler all the way

cdub11
04-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Cutler easy

Gay Ork Wang
04-01-2009, 12:28 PM
id take Vick, he is more fun to be around, he plays "games" off the field

critesy
04-01-2009, 12:56 PM
i take vick cause he led his bad falcons team to the playoffs 2/4 years.

hockey619
04-01-2009, 01:16 PM
Depends. Do you mean right this second to start tomorrow? Cause then Id take Cutler. But would I have time to develop the player with good coaches and the like? Then Id take Vick. Dont like him personally but he had worlds of potential, but they brought in an unconventional talent and put it in a conventional relatively bland offense, so to me he wasnt properly utilized.

Staggart
04-01-2009, 01:27 PM
Cutler in a heartbeat. It might be very interesting though if Vick was signed to Denver and that would be a great QB battle

E-Man
04-01-2009, 01:31 PM
Vick never lived up to the hype. He's got a really strong arm, but that accounts for nothing if you can't be productive with it. He's got phenomenal speed and quickness, but that's more of a luxury than a necessity.

Cutler is a guy who hasn't arrived as an elite QB yet, but he's turning into one like planned. He sat most of his rookie year, showed promise his second year, and had a Pro Bowl season last year.

I'd go with Cutler all the way. He is getting better with each season, while Vick never really got better than a great athlete with a great arm.

Matthew Jones
04-01-2009, 02:03 PM
I'd take Vick. Cutler is getting very, very overrated. Keep in mind Vick played in schemes that didn't really fit him with wide receivers who dropped all sorts of passes.

JUICE da Block Captain
04-01-2009, 02:29 PM
Depends. Do you mean right this second to start tomorrow? Cause then Id take Cutler. But would I have time to develop the player with good coaches and the like? Then Id take Vick. Dont like him personally but he had worlds of potential, but they brought in an unconventional talent and put it in a conventional relatively bland offense, so to me he wasnt properly utilized.

I agree with this. It was tough for Vick because there's never been a player like him so it was difficult for coaches to put him in the right situation to succeed.

Stash
04-01-2009, 05:10 PM
This has got to be a joke, Cutler easily. Vick was a terrible QB. Sure he could run but he couldn't pass for ****.

San Diego Chicken
04-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Seems to be a contest between two quarterbacks who garner more media attention than their production actually warrants.

bearfan
04-01-2009, 05:26 PM
From a "want to win" standpoint I would take Cutler, but if I was a owner, I would take Vick because he makes you more money

badgerbacker
04-01-2009, 05:44 PM
Depends on the team. If I have a terrible offense I would certainly take Vick because he can carry a team by himself and win games. If I've got a team with a lot of pieces in place and a pretty good offense, I'd probably take Cutler because he can run a traditional offense better and would be more consistent.

I picked Vick because it's fun.

BaLLiN
04-01-2009, 06:33 PM
you guys are krazy, id choose vick as my madden QB, hot route every reciever to run a streak, or to one side of the field and then go all the way for a 100 yard TD :) ahh the good ol days

Staubach12
04-05-2009, 08:29 AM
I always said Vick wasn't an elite or great QB. Cutler FTW.

TACKLE
04-05-2009, 10:43 AM
i take vick cause he led his bad falcons team to the playoffs 2/4 years.

That's why I voted for Vick. He carried his team to the NFCCG and to other playoff vicotries. Cutler hasn't even been to the plays. I understand football is a team game so to put that all on Cutler is unfair but the difference between the two isn't big enough so I give Vick the edge because of multiple playoff wins.

Eaglez.Fan
04-05-2009, 12:20 PM
That's why I voted for Vick. He carried his team to the NFCCG and to other playoff vicotries. Cutler hasn't even been to the plays. I understand football is a team game so to put that all on Cutler is unfair but the difference between the two isn't big enough so I give Vick the edge because of multiple playoff wins.

Give me a break. Cutler has had two full years of starting, you have to give him a chance before you fault him for not making the playoffs. What did Peyton Manning do in his first 2 years? Is Trent Dilfer really better than Dan Marino? I don't think so. The Broncos didn't make the playoffs because they had the 29th ranked defense, not because they had the 2nd ranked offense.

GBahDunka
04-05-2009, 02:46 PM
I take vick any day of the weak, id rather have a badass than a whiny ass *****.

Malaka
04-05-2009, 03:34 PM
I take vick any day of the weak, id rather have a badass than a whiny ass *****.

QFT!

I just voted Vick because so many people hate on Vick.

I honestly wish the whole dog fighting thing never happened, these 2 seasons I really could have seen him develop greatly as a passer, he was making strides as a QB before this whole scandal.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 05:36 PM
Vick
If Cutler were in Vicks shoes hed complain that the Falcons released him

yourfavestoner
04-05-2009, 07:02 PM
PVs9PzBM5TM
I can't wait until everybody is hanging off of Mike's nutsack again. Jim Mora and Gregg Knapp absolutely ruined him. How do those two still have jobs in the NFL again?

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 07:05 PM
i miss seeing Vick play :(

yourfavestoner
04-05-2009, 07:07 PM
i miss seeing Vick play :(

Me too...
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Me too...
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

he was my favorite player in the entire league.
:(

critesy
04-05-2009, 07:14 PM
yes please more vick fans.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 07:16 PM
yes please more vick fans.

they're out there somewhere

My President is Black
04-05-2009, 07:21 PM
I was and still am a huge Vick supporter. I'm not sure there's been an NFL player in recent history who has been chastised more unfairly than Vick.

His play was always over-scrutinized because his style was so unique. Statistics don't show his true effect on the game so people constantly bash him on that basis. Plus, his uniqueness made it difficult for coaches to design the offense around him.

As far as off the field, he was a victim of the people around him like many athletes who come from humble beginnings. Vick was used constantly. Yes, it was his fault for allowing it to happen but you need to remember the situation Vick came out of. It's easy to say he should have done X or Y when you're on the outside looking in but it's completely different when you grew up as Michael Vick.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 07:22 PM
I was and still am a huge Vick supporter. I'm not sure there's been an NFL player in recent history who has been chastised more unfairly than Vick.

His play was always over-scrutinized because his style was so unique. Statistics don't show his true effect on the game so people constantly bash him on that basis. Plus, his uniqueness made it difficult for coaches to design the offense around him.

As far as off the field, he was a victim of the people around him like many athletes who come from humble beginnings. Vick was used constantly. Yes, it was his fault for allowing it to happen but you need to remember the situation Vick came out of. It's easy to say he should have done X or Y when you're on the outside looking in but it's completely different when you grew up as Michael Vick.

that was the perfect post. i agree with everything you jus said
+rep

brat316
04-05-2009, 07:23 PM
That video didn't show Vick gliding across the turf to make a TD.

someone447
04-05-2009, 07:30 PM
Depends on the team. If I have a terrible offense I would certainly take Vick because he can carry a team by himself and win games. If I've got a team with a lot of pieces in place and a pretty good offense, I'd probably take Cutler because he can run a traditional offense better and would be more consistent.

I picked Vick because it's fun.

I don't see how anyone can argue with this. If I have a bad offense I would take Vick, just because he couldn't really lose you any games if the offense was bad anyone. But he could put the team on his shoulders and win a few. In an average or good offense, I would take Cutler. In an average offense Cutler can probably win you more games than Vick. In a good offense Cutler could make it great.

If I have an imaginative coach I think I would take Vick. If my coach isn't afraid to think outside the box and utilize vick in a way that he needed to be utilized Vick could be incredibly dominant.

Primetime21
04-05-2009, 07:35 PM
I can't wait until everybody is hanging off of Mike's nutsack again. Jim Mora and Gregg Knapp absolutely ruined him. How do those two still have jobs in the NFL again?

As someone whose two favorite teams are the Seahawks and Falcons, this is such a sad topic. Those two restricted Vicks progression as a passer and now their in Seattle to **** up the Hawks anyway they can.

Before all the water bottle and dog fighting controversies, Mike Vick was still the most hated on because how he would embarrass their teams. He made Alge Crumpler look like Tony G and he made Finneran look like a #1. There is a reason why he was the highest paid player in the NFL.

Hopefully Mora gives Vick a chance in Seattle since he is the reason why he is still in this damn league.

Vick succeeded aka won games with a bad O-line, inexperienced/raw WRs, and a decent D.

Give me pre- PITA Vick.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 09:22 AM
Vick pissed me off that he didn't make more plays in the passing game, but secretly he's one of those guys I'd want to be my starting QB.

He's a winner and if he had Michael Turner and a Braylon Edwards/Plaxico Burress/Terrell Owens big WR to throw to, he could've been a SB champ.

I hope that the NFL doesn't try to black ball him from the league and he's allowed to come back this season.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 09:26 AM
As far as off the field, he was a victim of the people around him like many athletes who come from humble beginnings. Vick was used constantly. Yes, it was his fault for allowing it to happen but you need to remember the situation Vick came out of. It's easy to say he should have done X or Y when you're on the outside looking in but it's completely different when you grew up as Michael Vick.
I'm a huge Mike Vick jock sniffer, but let's be real for a sec.

He was in federal prison because he put up the cash to bankroll that entire dogfighting operation. He dragged his friends along in his hobby, not the other way around.

Still don't think it should be a federal crime.

andyjo672
04-23-2009, 09:26 AM
Jack Nicholson now or 1974?

andyjo672
04-23-2009, 09:28 AM
I was and still am a huge Vick supporter. I'm not sure there's been an NFL player in recent history who has been chastised more unfairly than Vick.

His play was always over-scrutinized because his style was so unique. Statistics don't show his true effect on the game so people constantly bash him on that basis. Plus, his uniqueness made it difficult for coaches to design the offense around him.

As far as off the field, he was a victim of the people around him like many athletes who come from humble beginnings. Vick was used constantly. Yes, it was his fault for allowing it to happen but you need to remember the situation Vick came out of. It's easy to say he should have done X or Y when you're on the outside looking in but it's completely different when you grew up as Michael Vick.

I disagree with this argument. He had ample opportunity (finances, time, distance) to separate himself from that life, from what he was and he chose not to do so.

jay cutler's #1 fan
04-23-2009, 11:11 AM
I disagree with this argument. He had ample opportunity (finances, time, distance) to separate himself from that life, from what he was and he chose not to do so.

This is what I find funny. It's easy to sit here coming from a middle or upper-class background with no athletic talent and say he should have done X, Y, and Z.

It's completely different when you're living that life. It's completely different when your parents are telling you they need money for this or that, your brother wants money, your uncle wants money, your friends want money, etc. Vick was a teenager when he began to get national exposure. You can't expect these kids to make good decisions when they're being influenced by all these people around them, talking in their ears. Do you think it is a coincidence so many athletes and celebrities get into financial trouble? They're targets. People are always trying to get into their pockets.

Even guys like LeBron James make mistakes off the field. It's a tough situation for these athletes and when a stand-up human being like James is making mistakes you can see how difficult it is.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
04-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Culter, fairly easily. I want a QB who gets the ball to his WR/playmakers, not a guy who can run around and hit the occasional pass. I'm going to focus on the on the field traits rather than expand off of it. Cutler for me fairly easily.

Addict
04-23-2009, 11:29 AM
I was never a huge Vick fan. I hope he didn't drop the soap, though.

A Perfect Score
04-23-2009, 11:35 AM
I've always stated that I thought Mike Vick was the single biggest waste of talent the NFL has ever seen. The league had never seen a player like him before, and due to his failure, I think its unlikely that we will ever see a player like him again. Because of his inability to mature as a passer, guys like Vince Young and Pat White wont ever be thought of as what they are: guys with unique skillsets that cant be confined to a stereotypical offense. With those sort of guys, what you see is what you get. I think that because of Vick's failure, teams are wary of drafting players with those sort of tendencies (run first) because they dont want them to bust like Vick.

But here is the catch: it wasnt Vick's fault that he busted.

He was put in an unfair situation. He was asked to win games by himself. He had little talent around him. And, on top of that, they put him in the field and said "Ok, we want you to win games, but we want you to win them our way." Im sorry, you dont draft someone like Vick to be a pocket passer who can escape the pass rush and take of if he has to. You draft him to bring a presence to the field that has to be conistently guarded against every play. Which is what he brings. Vick affected the game in a very X's and O's type manner. And I think he was put in a situation that brought about his demise.

If its me, starting from scratch a team, I take Mike Vick and I put him in a custom offense that doesnt ask him to be a precision passer. Give him the ability to create: if you do that, teams will fear him. If you give him the ability or the option to run on every single play, then see what kind of gameplan the defense comes up with, and see who else on your offense goes unaccounted for when everyone is watching Vick.

someone447
04-23-2009, 11:49 AM
I'm a huge Mike Vick jock sniffer, but let's be real for a sec.

He was in federal prison because he put up the cash to bankroll that entire dogfighting operation. He dragged his friends along in his hobby, not the other way around.

Still don't think it should be a federal crime.

Are you serious? He dragged his friends in? You don't think it was a mutual thing? Dog fighting is HUGE in the poor black community. Hell, dog fighting is HUGE in many poor communities around the world. He bankrolled it because he could, his friends couldn't. That is the only reason he bankrolled it. Had one of his friends been the NFL star and Vick just a friend, it would have been the other way around.

I agree that it shouldn't be a federal crime. ****-fighting is legal... But I'm not real big on animal rights(although the ways he killed them were disgusting and could be punished for animal cruelty for that, should have just shot them in the head so it was painless.)

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Call Vick what you want, but to suggest he was/is a bust doesn't reflect his record with the Falcons or performance on the field.

Why do you think so many teams starting using the wildcat formation last season? That was a direct acknowledgment by NFL coaches how dangerous it is to have someone under center who can threaten a D with his feet and his arm.

Vick was no where near a failure, but he never developed into the player many expected and hoped he could be.

Stay tuned, the final chapter on the Michael Vick experience has yet to be written.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.

yourfavestoner
04-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.

And where did this word come from?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 12:50 PM
Ever heard of something called the INTERNET, yourfavstoner?

Look it up, there's countless articles that have chronicled the Mike Vick saga with dogfighting, it's there to find if you don't wanna believe a local.

If you ever get a chance to talk to some of his teammates who played with him at Va Tech or his brother, they will inform you that Vick was into dogfighting since HS.

Gay Ork Wang
04-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Ever heard of something called the INTERNET, yourfavstoner?

Look it up, there's countless articles that have chronicled the Mike Vick saga with dogfighting, it's there to find if you don't wanna believe a local.

If you ever get a chance to talk to some of his teammates who played with him at Va Tech or his brother, they will inform you that Vick was into dogfighting since HS.
http://thunkdifferent.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/normal_internet-seriousbusiness.jpg
http://boomajoom.com/internet.jpg

killxswitch
04-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Give me a break. Cutler has had two full years of starting, you have to give him a chance before you fault him for not making the playoffs. What did Peyton Manning do in his first 2 years? Is Trent Dilfer really better than Dan Marino? I don't think so. The Broncos didn't make the playoffs because they had the 29th ranked defense, not because they had the 2nd ranked offense.

He and the Colts went from 3-13 to 13-3 and division champs in his first 2 years.

someone447
04-23-2009, 01:18 PM
Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.

That doesn't change a single thing I said. How do you think he got into it? Friends. You don't just start fighting dogs by yourself. You do it because it is a cultural thing. His friends were as into dog fighting as he was. Did he get some of his friends involved? I'm sure, but he also got involved by friends. That entire group was into dogfighting, had any one of them made big money, they would have bankrolled the operation.

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 02:06 PM
Someone447, everyone in the 'hood doesn't sling rocks on a corner, carjack, have illegitimate kids, drop out of HS, join gangs, do home invasions, shoot cops, etc. or fight dogs.

Granted, Mike grew up in an environment worlds different from most people, but to get as far as he did in life, he most of all new the importance of making the right decisions.

Getting that deep into dogfighting when you're the #1 pick in the NFL draft and making tens of millions of dollars is a bad choice, and on some level he most have known that.

If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.

The only pass I give Vick on the entire situation is that he probably didn't know dogfighting at the time had been re-classified as a federal offense, I didn't know that either.

Just ignorance and dumb luck, but Vick has served his time, fighting dogs isn't the same as killing folks, Mike is 29 years old and I'm hoping the NFL commissioner will give him the opportunity to resume his NFL career.

jay cutler's #1 fan
04-23-2009, 02:10 PM
If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.

And I'm sure there were just as many friends saying the exact opposite.

This is a guy who was literally making hundreds of millions of dollars and is now bankrupt. What does that tell you about his personal decision-making ability and the people around him?

someone447
04-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Someone447, everyone in the 'hood doesn't sling rocks on a corner, carjack, have illegitimate kids, drop out of HS, join gangs, do home invasions, shoot cops, etc. or fight dogs.

Granted, Mike grew up in an environment worlds different from most people, but to get as far as he did in life, he most of all new the importance of making the right decisions.

Getting that deep into dogfighting when you're the #1 pick in the NFL draft and making tens of millions of dollars is a bad choice, and on some level he most have known that.

If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.

The only pass I give Vick on the entire situation is that he probably didn't know dogfighting at the time had been re-classified as a federal offense, I didn't know that either.

Just ignorance and dumb luck, but Vick has served his time, fighting dogs isn't the same as killing folks, Mike is 29 years old and I'm hoping the NFL commissioner will give him the opportunity to resume his NFL career.

No they don't... But, unfortunately, that is the culture surrounding the inner city. Not everyone follows the culture, I'm not an idiot. You still are not addressing my points. He did not get into this by himself. Friends brought him into it.

I have never once argued that Vick didn't make a stupid choice, that is just a strawman. What he did was incredibly stupid.

Yes, I'm sure his buddies who were in it with him wanted no part of it. I'm sure they were forced to do it. They didn't do it because they enjoyed it. Vick put a gun to their head... Of course some of his friends will tell him to quit being an idiot. But some of his friends were telling him how badass his operation was. You don't do something like that completely on your own.

You aren't even arguing any of my points, nothing you have said has refuted a single thing I've wrote. You have just been setting up straw mans only to knock them down. The problem with that is, I NEVER SAID ANY OF IT!

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Okay, someone447, you're right, I haven't addressed your initial point.

No, Vick didn't drag his cohorts into dogfighting, a misstatement on my part. I'm sure they all had a mutual interest in the sport as young teenagers.

But Vick is the one who had the most to lose by not giving it up when he was drafted by the Falcons, and now it's his career that's on the brink.