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View Full Version : Kyle Orton vs Matt Cassell


Malaka
04-05-2009, 03:59 PM
This is not your typical player A vs player B thread. I am not comparing as to who you think is better right now, but more along the lines of how things will shape up for these two young journeyman who have a great opportunity in front of them.

Both these QBs are 6'4, 26 years old, and have been journeymen/back-ups (Orton has started in a season previous to this one).

Now both these two players have been traded from their previous teams, after getting the opportunity to start, and playing very well. Cassell is currently on the Chiefs and Orton is on the Broncos, both young teams with up and coming offenses.

Now if you go strictly by stats last year obviously Cassell played better than Orton...

Cassell YDS 3693 %63.4 YPA 7.16 TD 21 INT 11 RAT 89.4
Orton YDS 2972 %58.5 YPA 6.4 TD 18 INT 12 RAT 79.6

However looking at it Orton did very well with much much less, while injured during the latter part of the season, and also not playing in a shotgun oriented system which Cassell played in, the same scheme that got Brady 50 TDs.

My whole point is to say that Orton is being severely underrated, meanwhile Cassell is being severely overrated. Both are 26 and both have a great chance to become great players in the NFL. Orton will now be playing in the offense that Cassell played in along with a much better offense than what he was given with the Bears, he will be getting a solid group of TEs, a pro bowler in Brandon Marshall, a great young WR in Eddie Royal, and also a great slot man when healthy Tony Scheffler (sp?). Matt Cassell will be downgrading from Randy Moss and Wes Welker, to a great future pro bowler in Dwayne Bowe, a HoF TE who is, face it, on the downside of his career, and a bunch of scrub WRs. Neither run game is spectacular but I'll give the edge to Chiefs with a great trio of Jamaal Charles, Kolby Smith, and LJ, but the offensive line for the Broncos played great last year, and I'll give Denver the edge there. Now the odds are a bit more even, and I think believe it or not Kyle Orton will be the better of the two QBs in the near future.

This argument is a bit moot, seeing as how it is two ordinary journeyman QBs, but your thoughts are appreciated.

BeerBaron
04-05-2009, 04:07 PM
I like Orton for the year he's going to be in Denver. I think he and Brandon Marshall (assuming he's not suspended all that long) are going to become best friends. A big, physical target like Marshall is what Orton was missing in Chicago.

Splat
04-05-2009, 04:08 PM
Good topic and I agree that Orton has been getting a bad rap and Cassel has been some what overrated this off season my thing is will Orton really get a fair shot we all know Cassel will?

Edit: The only thing I really disagree with is what you said about Gonzo people keep saying he is on downside of his career but I could argue he just got done playing his best season.

tylerb929
04-05-2009, 04:33 PM
I think Orton will do better between the two this year. That is of course, assuming he plays. The Broncos may be eyeing another QB in the draft (Sanchez) or trade (I've heard Quinn is still a possibility?). Its pretty much a foregone conclusion, barring injury, that Cassel will start. But assuming both are healthy and starting, I'd say Orton out produces Cassel.

BuddyCHRIST
04-05-2009, 04:33 PM
I do agree the Orton could have success in Denver. Chicago's offense/personnel was about as QB unfriendly as it gets with no established receivers and most of your offense being short plays which makes the defense even more compact against you. While the Patriots as as conductive to QB success as any offense in the league with talent and wide open scheme.

Actually looking at them Cassell looks to be a little better physically with his legs and he seems to have a stronger arm, though I could be off on that one because I don't see Orton a whole lot.

But overall I think Orton has been more underrated than Cassell being overrated, QB is the most important position on the field so if a guy has the chance to be that then you take a chance on him. Especially considering the Chiefs only gave up a 2nd rounder for him. I think if given the chance though Orton could play really well this year and it's why I don't think they should draft a QB early.

bearsfan_51
04-05-2009, 05:09 PM
I do agree the Orton could have success in Denver. Chicago's offense/personnel was about as QB unfriendly as it gets with no established receivers and most of your offense being short plays which makes the defense even more compact against you.
Umm...that's because of Orton. When Grossman was QB we would go deep all the time.

BeerBaron
04-05-2009, 05:14 PM
Actually looking at them Cassell looks to be a little better physically with his legs and he seems to have a stronger arm, though I could be off on that one because I don't see Orton a whole lot.


Orton really doesn't have that bad of an arm, he's just not very accurate throwing beyond about 20 yards. There were a lot of times last year where Hester beat his man and was running wide open deep only to then be severely over or under thrown by Orton. (To be fair too, he did get a few on target that Hester just flat out dropped. He's still learning to get comfortable as a receiver.)

Also, I don't see the Broncos drafting a QB in the first round. McDaniels is this supposed offensive genius who just turned a 7th round pick into an above average NFL QB. I think they need to do what it takes to land Raji in round 1, even if it means trading up a bit, in order to have the big NT as the centerpiece to your defense. Then use the other one on Maualuga, Tyson Jackson or a corner. Then draft someone like McGee later on as I think he'd be a perfect fit.

bored of education
04-05-2009, 05:18 PM
This is not a knock on Orton at all, I think he can be successful. But Malaka is puerly hating on Cassel. First of all, the coaching around Cassel now is greater than it was for offensive minds than it was in NE. Gailey and Haley are quite greater than a 32 year old ball boy like McDaniels. So I think Cassel will take greater strides this year than he did all of last year. I think peopel are underrating the coaching Cassel has around him and how that will only make him better. He has a soon to be stud at LT and depending how they draft the Chiefs line could be better than Denvers, so that has no relevance.

A bunch of scrubs around him? Tony G on the down side of his career after having the best year of his career and is only 33. He is comming of a year where he showed not to lose ONE step. Dwayne Bowe is a WR o the rise and will only get better. Haley has proven he makes WR's only better. Marty Booker Bobby Engram and Terrel Owens had their best years while Haley being their position coach. Bobby Engram, Will Franklin, Mark Bradley are not bad options for a number 2 WR and number 3 options in the pass game. In 8 games last year Bradley comming off the street had 30 catches 330 yards. Not bad in only 8 games. Jamaal Charles is a home run threat everyone he touches the ball and Gailey will utilize him properly with swing routes and dump passes. LJ and Kolby are ehhh and that has nothing to do with Cassel so I have no Idea why you brought that up Malaka.

Now if you wanna talk about their skillsets and intangibles, that's hard. You only read good things about both. Cassel is superior mobility wise for sure and can make plays with his feet like he did last year.

I love reading stuff like this about QB's though, from the mouth of his coach, Haley:
"I just came off two years of working with one of the best guys I've ever been around in Kurt Warner," said Haley, who as Arizona's offensive coordinator coached Warner. "In best guys, I mean guys that are into football, like to talk about football. It's not about much else for Kurt Warner. This Matt Cassel feels and acts a lot the same way. He is football 24/7 to the point where I've had to pull back the reins on him a couple of times and say, 'Listen, Matt. These next couple of months are about getting in shape and getting your body ready for the season. There's time enough for football.'

"He's all about football. I've been telling everyone I hope he can play because he's got all of the intangible things you get excited about as a coach."


But hey we can all find quotes like that.

I thik no one is overrating Cassel, no one saying he will win them a ring, he was a top 7 Qb last year in a great system yes, but maybe not having Randy Moss and a lack of o-line in the biggest difference. So maybe he will be in the 9-13 range. Whch is very realistic. He isin't going to a Pop Warner system either pal.


Also, look at what Chan Gailey got out of Tyler Thigpen with that ****** team around him.

Pass Yds 2608 TD 18 INT 12 Yds/Game 186.3 QB Rating 76.0 in only 14 games (look alot like Orton's in less games with a worse defense and some better talent around him)

just saying.

vidae
04-05-2009, 05:29 PM
Last year, Tony Gonzalez was the best TE in the NFL. He had, arguably, his BEST SEASON. Do your research before you spout of stupid crap like "a HoF TE who is, face it, on the downside of his career". Did you even do your research before you posted that?

Number 1 TE in receptions, yards and tds? Where is the downside? How has he lost a step? 96 receptions, 1058 yards and 10 tds with Croyle, Huard and Thigpen throwing to him.

This might be the homer talking, but I've had to read comments like that about Tony for years and all he does is continue to dominate at the position like few before him. I'm getting sick and tired of those kind of comments. Do some research.

Malaka
04-05-2009, 05:30 PM
This is not a knock on Orton at all, I think he can be successful. But Malaka is puerly hating on Cassel. First of all, the coaching around Cassel now is greater than it was for offensive minds than it was in NE. Gailey and Haley are quite greater than a 32 year old ball boy like McDaniels. So I think Cassel will take greater strides this year than he did all of last year. I think peopel are underrating the coaching Cassel has around him and how that will only make him better. He has a soon to be stud at LT and depending how they draft the Chiefs line could be better than Denvers, so that has no relevance.

A bunch of scrubs around him? Tony G on the down side of his career after having the best year of his career and is only 33. He is comming of a year where he showed not to lose ONE step. Dwayne Bowe is a WR o the rise and will only get better. Haley has proven he makes WR's only better. Marty Booker Bobby Engram and Terrel Owens had their best years while Haley being their position coach. Bobby Engram, Will Franklin, Mark Bradley are not bad options for a number 2 WR and number 3 options in the pass game. In 8 games last year Bradley comming off the street had 30 catches 330 yards. Not bad in only 8 games. Jamaal Charles is a home run threat everyone he touches the ball and Gailey will utilize him properly with swing routes and dump passes. LJ and Kolby are ehhh and that has nothing to do with Cassel so I have no Idea why you brought that up Malaka.

Now if you wanna talk about their skillsets and intangibles, that's hard. You only read good things about both. Cassel is superior mobility wise for sure and can make plays with his feet like he did last year.

I love reading stuff like this about QB's though, from the mouth of his coach, Haley:
"I just came off two years of working with one of the best guys I've ever been around in Kurt Warner," said Haley, who as Arizona's offensive coordinator coached Warner. "In best guys, I mean guys that are into football, like to talk about football. It's not about much else for Kurt Warner. This Matt Cassel feels and acts a lot the same way. He is football 24/7 to the point where I've had to pull back the reins on him a couple of times and say, 'Listen, Matt. These next couple of months are about getting in shape and getting your body ready for the season. There's time enough for football.'

"He's all about football. I've been telling everyone I hope he can play because he's got all of the intangible things you get excited about as a coach."


But hey we can all find quotes like that.

I thik no oe is overrating Cassel, he was a top 7 Qb last year in a great system yes, but maybe not having Randy Moss and a lack of o-line in the biggest difference. So maybe he will be in the 9-13 range. Whch is very realistic. He isin't going to a Pop Warner system either pal.

I don't hate Cassell I only said those things in IRC to piss you off lol.

I like them both and think they both have a good future in the NFL, but I just am confused as to why people are in love with Cassell and Orton gets no props for doing pretty well with much less. I think Orton will be better than Cassell but thats just my honest opinion.

P.S: Don't get so offended Chiefs fans, I don't think Cassell will suck, and what I meant with Tony G is that he is 33, I know he had a great season, but he isn't going to be so good forever, chill Chiefs fans chill.

bored of education
04-05-2009, 05:32 PM
Also, look at what Chan Gailey got out of Tyler Thigpen with that ****** team around him.

Pass Yds 2608 TD 18 INT 12 Yds/Game 186.3 QB Rating 76.0 in only 14 games (look alot like Orton's in less games with a worse defense and some better talent around him)

just saying.
__________________

Malaka
04-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Also, look at what Chan Gailey got out of Tyler Thigpen with that ****** team around him.

Pass Yds 2608 TD 18 INT 12 Yds/Game 186.3 QB Rating 76.0 in only 14 games (look alot like Orton's in less games with a worse defense and some better talent around him)

just saying.
__________________

Chan Gailey was running a HS offense to fit Tyler Thigpenzzz, and how many wins did they happen to have with Thigpenzzz at the helm of the offense? No matter how good his stats were. Also Orton was injured at the end of the year, he played 15 games missed most of another and played hobbled for a couple more.

bored of education
04-05-2009, 05:37 PM
Chan Gailey was running a HS offense to fit Tyler Thigpenzzz, and how many wins did they happen to have with Thigpenzzz at the helm of the offense? No matter how good his stats were. Also Orton was injured at the end of the year, he played 15 games missed most of another and played hobbled for a couple more.

I think that helps the coaching argument. Gailey brought in a mikey mouse offense to fit his QB. I see the same happening with Cassel, Gailey bringing in an offense that brings out the best in his qb... with better results.


Cassel did win 11 games last year, and don't give me look at who he had around him ********!

Malaka
04-05-2009, 05:51 PM
I think that helps the coaching argument. Gailey brought in a mikey mouse offense to fit his QB. I see the same happening with Cassel, Gailey bringing in an offense that brings out the best in his qb... with better results.


Cassel did win 11 games last year, and don't give me look at who he had around him ********!

I never brought up Cassell winning games or not.

The Chiefs weren't going to win games with a HS offense and they didn't, Thigpen would make 1 make 1 read scramble, and try to find someone open or take off.

Cassell won 11 games and I will say look who he had around him, if the Patriots defense was near the bottom of the league, do you think he would have won 11 games? If his best receiver was Devin Hester... would he have won 11 games?... no...

LookItsAlDavis
04-05-2009, 05:57 PM
I believe somebody has got to be pretty dumb to say that Orton had less of a team around him in Chicago than what the Chiefs had. I honestly believe they were a Tony Gonzalez away from being in a coin-flip with the Lions at the combine.

Caddy
04-05-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm not high on either of them to be honest, but I definitely think Cassell has more long term upside than Orton.

Malaka
04-05-2009, 05:59 PM
I believe somebody has got to be pretty dumb to say that Orton had less of a team around him in Chicago than what the Chiefs had. I honestly believe they were a Tony Gonzalez away from being in a coin-flip with the Lions at the combine.

Nobody in this entire thread except you has ever mentioned once... that Orton had a worse situation in Chicago than what he would have in KC. Situations that have been compared are the Patriots and Chiefs... please read before posting kthxbi.

Xonraider
04-05-2009, 06:09 PM
For my own sake I hope both are awfully bad.

My President is Black
04-05-2009, 06:40 PM
Both are overrated on these forums overall at this point I think. I don't think either will be a long-term starter in this league. Two years from now they'll be backups.

Malaka
04-05-2009, 06:47 PM
Both are overrated on these forums overall at this point I think. I don't think either will be a long-term starter in this league. Two years from now they'll be backups.

I might be overrating Orton by making this thread, and sticking up for him etc. but I really doubt he is overrated in anyway on these boards, maybe Cassell, but even Cassell not that much.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 06:47 PM
Both are overrated on these forums overall at this point I think. I don't think either will be a long-term starter in this league. Two years from now they'll be backups.

ouchhh. backups in two years? why do you see that happening?

My President is Black
04-05-2009, 06:50 PM
ouchhh. backups in two years? why do you see that happening?

I think they'll perform at a backup's level. Teams will be looking to upgrade the position as long as they have Orton or Cassell. I'm not expecting these guys to be Ryan Leaf, but think Shaun Hill in San Francisco or Jason Campbell in Washington. Guys that play OK but you'll never win with them unless you pull a 2000 Ravens.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 06:54 PM
I think they'll perform at a backup's level. Teams will be looking to upgrade the position as long as they have Orton or Cassell. I'm not expecting these guys to be Ryan Leaf, but think Shaun Hill in San Francisco or Jason Campbell in Washington. Guys that play OK but you'll never win with them unless you pull a 2000 Ravens.

Orton did pretty damn good last year with a bad offense an almost no weapons.

My President is Black
04-05-2009, 06:58 PM
Orton did pretty damn good last year with a bad offense an almost no weapons.

He played 'OK' and I agree he seriously lacked weapons. That said, he can't make all the NFL throws and he limits you in what you can do offensively. He can be a game manager, but that's about it if you ask me.

SimonRath
04-05-2009, 07:02 PM
He played 'OK' and I agree he seriously lacked weapons. That said, he can't make all the NFL throws and he limits you in what you can do offensively. He can be a game manager, but that's about it if you ask me.

18 TD's an only 12 INTS while throwing for almost 3000 yards.

thats pretty good for a team with Hester as their #1 WR

BlindSite
04-05-2009, 07:16 PM
I think Orton is as good as he's going to get and while I agree with that line in front of him and those receivers he'll probably have a great year.

I think that Cassel has the higher upside.

Splat
04-05-2009, 07:43 PM
I guess I'm the only Chiefs fan that didn't take this thread as a slap in the face :) I think it is a good topic my self.

I would not be shocked at all to see Orton if he starts have a better season then Cassel but in the long run I feel IF the Chiefs build around Cassel he will be the better QB.

I agree that Denver has the better O but I think the Chiefs are a lot closer to be a pretty good O then people seem to think.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
04-05-2009, 07:53 PM
Orton sucks. Cutler absolutely carried Denver last year. If he doesn't play great, we lose to San Diego, we lose to the Saints, we lose to the Browns, we lose to the Jets, and that's just from direct stats. Bottom line is that on a team that started their ninth string RB and had a terrible, terrible defense, the Broncos won 8 games and nearly made the playoffs.
Brandon Marshall is good, but he was nothing before Cutler. As soon as Cutler starts, even in that rookie year, Marshall plays really well. I don't believe receivers make QBs and I don't believe QBs make receivers. They help each other. But putting a QB who is simply not that good with a receiver who is very good won't suddenly make a QB look great. Cassell had solid numbers, not in Brady's stratosphere though. And the team went from 16-0 to 11-5. While 16-0 was very difficult to be repeated, 14-2 probably isn't out of the reach of New England with Tom Brady. So Cassell ended up costing the Patriots probably three wins and the playoffs. And he's much better than Orton. Orton is just for this year, assuming we're bad enough to get a high pick to take he best QB available, Orton will not start in Denver past this next season or two. He simply isn't very good.

Also, watching the games I could, many times, Cutler was the reason the play stayed alive. He rarely had the protection the sack numbers would suggest, and his pocket presence and quick release kept him upright, even though many time he kept the play alive only to throw a pick.

bored of education
04-05-2009, 08:29 PM
Thank you sabf. I agree

nepg
04-06-2009, 09:02 AM
Orton sucks. Cutler absolutely carried Denver last year. If he doesn't play great, we lose to San Diego, we lose to the Saints, we lose to the Browns, we lose to the Jets, and that's just from direct stats. Bottom line is that on a team that started their ninth string RB and had a terrible, terrible defense, the Broncos won 8 games and nearly made the playoffs.
Brandon Marshall is good, but he was nothing before Cutler. As soon as Cutler starts, even in that rookie year, Marshall plays really well. I don't believe receivers make QBs and I don't believe QBs make receivers. They help each other. But putting a QB who is simply not that good with a receiver who is very good won't suddenly make a QB look great. Cassell had solid numbers, not in Brady's stratosphere though. And the team went from 16-0 to 11-5. While 16-0 was very difficult to be repeated, 14-2 probably isn't out of the reach of New England with Tom Brady. So Cassell ended up costing the Patriots probably three wins and the playoffs. And he's much better than Orton. Orton is just for this year, assuming we're bad enough to get a high pick to take he best QB available, Orton will not start in Denver past this next season or two. He simply isn't very good.

Also, watching the games I could, many times, Cutler was the reason the play stayed alive. He rarely had the protection the sack numbers would suggest, and his pocket presence and quick release kept him upright, even though many time he kept the play alive only to throw a pick.

New England's defense, receiving options, and offensive line weren't even close to what they were in 2007, though. You can't say Cassel cost them any wins.
________
HOW TO ROLL A JOINT (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

AJHawk50
04-06-2009, 01:46 PM
I definitely see Cassel as being the better prospect over Kyle Orton.

CC.SD
04-06-2009, 02:15 PM
Cassel has bathed in the fountain of greatness, in the shadow of Tommy Trojan, it is no contest.

Monomach
04-06-2009, 06:43 PM
Orton is extremely underrated. I expect him to have a pretty decent year in Denver and get paid at the end of it. The system and offense around him are pretty much playing to his strengths.

If Orton had never been thrown to the wolves with 1/4 of a playbook in 2005, no one would bash him. They'd be calling him a guy about to take the next step, instead.

Addict
04-06-2009, 08:10 PM
They're both going to suck, the only difference being that people will be kind of expecting it from Orton and will be taken by surprise (God alone knows why) to see Cassel screw up.

Either that or they both do decently. Which is what they are, just decent. Not very good, not exceptionally bad.

Denver Bronco99
04-07-2009, 03:01 AM
Is this really a debate?


McDaniels took Brady...who prior was being called a QB that won...but never put up Peyton type numbers, McDaniel's takes over and he sets records


1 year later Brady goes down and Cassel who hasn't started since HS plays decent and wins 11 games




Kyle Orton with McDaniels calling the plays and the established talent we have....Orton hands down will be expected and most likely have the better season by FAR!

bearsfan_51
04-07-2009, 07:43 AM
Is this really a debate?


McDaniels took Brady...who prior was being called a QB that won...but never put up Peyton type numbers, McDaniel's takes over and he sets records


1 year later Brady goes down and Cassel who hasn't started since HS plays decent and wins 11 games




Kyle Orton with McDaniels calling the plays and the established talent we have....Orton hands down will be expected and most likely have the better season by FAR!
ZOMG! Kyle Orton sounds amazing!! We never should have traded him!!

SimonRath
04-07-2009, 08:01 AM
Is this really a debate?


McDaniels took Brady...who prior was being called a QB that won...but never put up Peyton type numbers, McDaniel's takes over and he sets records


1 year later Brady goes down and Cassel who hasn't started since HS plays decent and wins 11 games




Kyle Orton with McDaniels calling the plays and the established talent we have....Orton hands down will be expected and most likely have the better season by FAR!


you my friend.. need help

diabsoule
04-07-2009, 08:10 AM
Is this really a debate?

I mean, who would you rather have leading your team to a W:

This guy:

Guy 1
http://mike100915.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ortonmontage.jpg

OR

Guy 2
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/10/22/1193106898_4918/300h.jpg

And that would be Guy 1 for the win.

nepg
04-07-2009, 09:19 AM
First huddle of the Broncos' season: "Hi, my name's Kyle and I like to party."
________
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Gay Ork Wang
04-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Matt Cassel looks like a ******** guy

bored of education
04-07-2009, 09:26 AM
Matt Cassel looks like pure sex

Malaka
04-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Matt Cassel looks like pure sex

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f118/nflnyjets/fail/lolcat.jpg

Lol, anyways,

My point of this thread was not whose better or worse, but honestly to see why people consider Cassell to be a good QB, but they don't see it for Orton, who did almost as much with way less talent, a normal system and worse coaching.

bored of education
04-07-2009, 11:17 AM
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f118/nflnyjets/fail/lolcat.jpg

Lol, anyways,

My point of this thread was not whose better or worse, but honestly to see why people consider Cassell to be a good QB, but they don't see it for Orton, who did almost as much with way less talent, a normal system and worse coaching.

But but Orton had more starts before this season. Casel was on verge of getting cut and EPICNESS!

Malaka
04-07-2009, 11:26 AM
But but Orton had more starts before this season. Casel was on verge of getting cut and EPICNESS!

You mean the time he was a 4th round rookie thrown into the starting line-up with like 1/4 of the playbook learned, and not to mention his best receiver was Mushin Mohammed and Bernard Berrian who by no means is terrible, but its not like he had a star-studded cast over there in Chicago in 05'.

bored of education
04-07-2009, 11:37 AM
You mean the time he was a 4th round rookie thrown into the starting line-up with like 1/4 of the playbook learned, and not to mention his best receiver was Mushin Mohammed and Bernard Berrian who by no means is terrible, but its not like he had a star-studded cast over there in Chicago in 05'.

no matter what you say i always win malaka! ALWAYS! :D

Malaka
04-07-2009, 11:40 AM
no matter what you say i always win malaka! ALWAYS! :D

Alright you win :(

Brent
04-07-2009, 12:10 PM
I love how Orton is holding a whole thing of Jack Daniels and only one coke.

wogitalia
04-08-2009, 01:14 AM
I like both these QBs and the situations they landed in.

I think I am of the minority opinion that Denver got the better end of the trade, assuming they use the picks well at least, Orton to me is a very solid QB, good leader, seems to be very well liked by his team, showed a willingness and the toughness to play hurt and still put up good numbers with quite possibly the worst offensive supporting cast in the league.

Sure, Orton has him limitations, his deep ball is not accurate, arm strength is actually quite solid, but he makes solid reads, throws a nice short and intermediate ball and doesn't make a lot of mistakes. To me he can be a good solid starter that wins a SB if he has a good cast around him. He still has to win the starting role though. One thing I am certain of is that I dont think that Denver should be drafting a QB, especially if it means moving up, in the first 4 rounds. I don't mind a project number 3 type, not that I see one, in later rounds.

Another reason I don't like the trade for Chicago is that I don't like QBs that sook. You earn the right to complain and quite simply he hasn't earned anything. He is a great physical QB but mentally I don't like him at all and Chicago basically just said you have to win now. Should be interesting to see how he handles the pressure given how poorly he has handled just about every bit of adversity in his career so far.

Cassell... I was pretty sold on him last year, seems to be able to make all the throws, has good mobility and most importantly, didn't force things. Most impressive thing though perhaps was the way he took control of the team, it is pretty hard to come in off the bench and be a leader of a team that already has a strong leader, you are always going to be compared to him, Cassell won over a very veteran team, that speaks volumes to me and stands him in good stead for the future. He goes to a pretty promising situation. If LJ shows up with his head right they have an elite back with a legit home run hitter to mix it up in Charles. The line has had some turnover in the last couple of years, but it is beginning to show signs and I fully expect KC to take at least 1 lineman in the draft to sure it up further. The defense is a couple of playmakers from being solid. Then there is Bowe and Tony, Tony is like the ultimate safety blanket for a QB, even if he loses a step between now and next season, he will still be a star. Cassell should do very well.

Also worth noting, the Chiefs were about as competitive as a horrible team can be, they were in most games, they were a sack here or there from winning half a dozen games, fix that and they should be solid.

D-Rod
04-08-2009, 05:31 AM
I love how Orton is holding a whole thing of Jack Daniels and only one coke.

Only girls need coke with their whiskey.

bearsfan_51
04-08-2009, 06:08 AM
Only girls need coke with their whiskey.
Tough guy alert...

Iamcanadian
04-09-2009, 11:30 PM
Cassel, signed by BB for over 14 million a year and last I looked he is no fool.
Wanted by both his former GM and former HC to be their starting QB even at over 14 million a year. They were/are willing to stake their careers on his ability. Only negative is fans who cannot believe these guys are all right about Cassel.
Orton, quickly dumped by his GM and HC as soon as it was possible to get Cutler. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his talent.

Me Likey Rookies
04-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Brandon Marshall is good, but he was nothing before Cutler. As soon as Cutler starts, even in that rookie year, Marshall plays really well.

I could be wrong, but didnt Marshall not even play with Plummer? I know he had that 71 yd td in Cutler's first game but that was all Marshall RAC anyway. I believe he was buried behind Javon and Rod all year untill the last few games, so you can't tell if he was nothing before Cutler.