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View Full Version : Trade for #3 overall?


JoeMontainya
03-06-2007, 10:24 PM
I know its been rumored, but nothing more and no article to prove it.

But would you consider this trade?

Browns send:
3rd overall pick

Vikings send:
7th overall pick, 3rd RD pick and 5th RD pick.

You then draft Calvin Johnson, or whoever else you please.

good or not?

DHVF
03-06-2007, 10:26 PM
If we're only having to give up an additional third and 5th, I would most definitely trade up...Not even a second thought in my mind.

JoeMontainya
03-06-2007, 10:28 PM
This is why I say it.....

"Willis, according to John Clayton, can be had for a third rd. selecton. The Bills have brought in Dominic Rhodes and Chris Brown, plummeting willy's value. I'd make this trade in a heart beat. "

I would trade down to 7th pick, draft Brady Quinn, and then trade our extra third for McGahee.

Raiders = Russell
Lions = Thomas
Vikings = Johnson
Tampabay = not Quinn, they have Garcia/Simms
Arizona = not Quinn, they have Lienart
Washington = not Quinn, they have Jason Campbell
Browns = Brad Quinn

Vikes99ej
03-06-2007, 10:30 PM
Yes, I would do that... if I could be assured that OAK or CLE wouldn't take CJ. If they do, we're stuck with our thumbs up our bee-hinds. Just wait for Severe to come in here and rant on about how we are all fools who are just obsessed with Calvin Johnson's man juice, and how we'd be throwing away our future.

JoeMontainya
03-06-2007, 10:40 PM
You would obviously wait until draft to do this trade. Once CJ is still there at #3, then the trade would become done.

DHVF
03-06-2007, 10:42 PM
I know, it's the same old argument time after time. What he seemingly doesn't realize, is that you can have the most talented QB in the world fail, if he doesn't have any weapons around him to get the ball to. If Brady Quinn would've had our offense to work with last year, he would've posted just as bad of numbers as both BJ and TJ did.

Vikes99ej
03-06-2007, 10:45 PM
I seriously would not want to pass on him. He could make even Tarvaris look better. This has 0 chance of happening, but I can still dream...

JoeMontainya
03-06-2007, 10:49 PM
It has a real chance at happening, Savage said he might want to trade down, and the only possible spot in many's opinions is the Vikings pick. You are also the only team in the top 7 that wants to move up if the price is right. We cant trade any farther than #7 because at #8 the Texans might look at Quinn.

Vikes99ej
03-06-2007, 10:52 PM
I sure hope so. We would still have our 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th left. It hurts me to think about it, though.

Severe Punishment
03-06-2007, 10:58 PM
It' s not going to matter Carolina dumped their backup (Weinke) a move that indicates they're ready to trade up and take that next step towards a S.B.

...while Viking fans will clamour at Nicks sports world for the "sneek peek" at a Viking Jersey with Calvin Johnson on the back.

Yep, that's what we'd be most concerned with..making Browns fans happy....just out of curiousity why don't Viking fans want to trade their 3rd round pick for McGahee ?? seeing as most fans are unhappy with Chester Taylor and think that other teams "throwaways" can never be productive.
I'm curious as to why we'd be interested in making a deal that clearly benefits Cleveland more so than the Vikes.

DHVF
03-06-2007, 10:58 PM
I sure hope so. We would still have our 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th left. It hurts me to think about it, though.

Yeah, let's not get our hopes up, although it is kind of fun to think about.

Severe Punishment
03-06-2007, 11:01 PM
I know, it's the same old argument time after time. What he seemingly doesn't realize, is that you can have the most talented QB in the world fail, if he doesn't have any weapons around him to get the ball to. If Brady Quinn would've had our offense to work with last year, he would've posted just as bad of numbers as both BJ and TJ did.
Tom Brady had who again ? A broken down Dillon (Taylor was 1000 times better) and Reche Caldwell / Troy Brown and who ? (Chad Jackson played very few games) Daniel Graham was hurt and Ben Watson was inconsistent
at best....yep...you sure need that "WR TALENT" to succeed.
And Brady Quinn DID have the same type of talent last year at ND and put up what for #'s again ?

Yeah, he'd be "wasted" here.

JoeMontainya
03-06-2007, 11:01 PM
The Vikings have no WR that can make a QB better. And where you draft you still wont have one. CJ might be the best WR prospect ever and the fact that you would be able to draft him should tell you, you are benefieting from the trade. To say your not is crazy.

DHVF
03-06-2007, 11:10 PM
Tom Brady had who again ? A broken down Dillon (Taylor was 1000 times better) and Reche Caldwell / Troy Brown and who ? (Chad Jackson played very few games) Daniel Graham was hurt and Ben Watson was inconsistent
at best....yep...you sure need that "WR TALENT" to succeed.
And Brady Quinn DID have the same type of talent last year at ND and put up what for #'s again ?

Yeah, he'd be "wasted" here.

Haha, same type of talent. You, sir are a joke. I don't exactly consider John Carlson, Darius Walker and Shark to be nothing. Also, you bring up the same team, same example up over and over again...It's getting real old. Belichek realizes that what Brady had last year was simply not up to par, hence the reasoning that they are going heavily after WRs during the offseason here (or did you miss that). Also, you're comparing Brady Quinn, a guy who has not taken one snap at the pro level, to someone who is a lock for the hall of fame already...Sucks to have that ol' comparison argument brought up back on ya don't it? BTW, who is Laurence Maroney? I mean, the Pats did have a 2 back system that worked pretty well last year, right?

jerthemessiah
03-06-2007, 11:41 PM
Haha, same type of talent. You, sir are a joke. I don't exactly consider John Carlson, Darius Walker and Shark to be nothing. Also, you bring up the same team, same example up over and over again...It's getting real old. Belichek realizes that what Brady had last year was simply not up to par, hence the reasoning that they are going heavily after WRs during the offseason here (or did you miss that). Also, you're comparing Brady Quinn, a guy who has not taken one snap at the pro level, to someone who is a lock for the hall of fame already...Sucks to have that ol' comparison argument brought up back on ya don't it? BTW, who is Laurence Maroney? I mean, the Pats did have a 2 back system that worked pretty well last year, right?They also have a a great o-line and a HC that isn't a moron.

swagger
03-07-2007, 12:07 AM
Tom Brady had who again ? A broken down Dillon (Taylor was 1000 times better) and Reche Caldwell / Troy Brown and who ? (Chad Jackson played very few games) Daniel Graham was hurt and Ben Watson was inconsistent
at best....yep...you sure need that "WR TALENT" to succeed.
And Brady Quinn DID have the same type of talent last year at ND and put up what for #'s again ?

Yeah, he'd be "wasted" here.

Yah, and they lost in the playoffs because of it. Did you watch the game or are you just talking out of your behind?

To a team with a plethora of offensive weapons.

Notice how the Patriots are making a huge effort to bring Brady some targets. Signed Wes Welker to an inflated contract and traded a 2nd and 7th round draft pick, had Stallworth in for a visit, and are rumored to be interested in Moss.

Yep, Tom Brady doesn't need offensive weapons. Just ask Bill Belichick.

swagger
03-07-2007, 12:09 AM
I sure hope so. We would still have our 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th left. It hurts me to think about it, though.

Not to nitpick, but we traded our 7th rounder and CJ Mosley for Brooks Bollinger. So, if we did this deal and traded 1st, 3rd and 5th for Calvin Johnson, we would still have our: 2nd, 4th and 6th in addition to CJ.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 12:18 AM
hahahaha...ya'll vastly over rate the Reche Caldwell's and ND O-Line ...not to mention the whole point of Tom Brady is WHAT HE DID with that low tier talent....they were 2 plays from another trip to the S.B.

Quinn is more like Brady than Jackson or Bollinger resemble an NFL QB.
That's just a sad fact.

and finding a WR is much simpler and easier in the draft or through F/A than a QB will ever be.

This team needs a QB for the future....Jackson and Bollinger are NOT it.
The only thing on here "getting old" is this Minnesotan sports mentality that losers are satsifactory.....Kevin Garnett is the pinacle of this belief.

swagger
03-07-2007, 12:22 AM
hahahaha...ya'll vastly over rate the Reche Caldwell's and ND O-Line ...not to mention the whole point of Tom Brady is WHAT HE DID with that low tier talent....they were 2 plays from another trip to the S.B.

Who cares what Tom Brady did with that lower-tier talent?? He is maybe the best quarterback in NFL history. How does a Viking QB pertain to what Tom Brady does on the field?

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid argument.

wogitalia
03-07-2007, 12:25 AM
[quote]They also have a a great o-line and a HC that isn't a moron.[quote]

Thats the major difference. Its great to have a full O-Line that blocks rather than relying on a LG and C to block for 5 guys like the Vikings do and seem to be quite content to continue doing next year.

This would be a good trade, I dont like giving up 3 picks for one, Im a big believer that good scouting will produce starters from lower round picks, but we need some offense and it would still leave 3 picks to fix the O-Line.

I dont think we can lose at 7. If CJ were to fall, score. If not it figures that one of Brady and Peterson should be there, if not someone like Joe Thomas is a very outside chance. Those are the 3 guys we should be looking at if we arent trading up for CJ.

Personally if we dont trade I'd like to get either Landry, Quinn, Peterson and then hope that Levy falls to our 2nd round pick or possibly Blalock. I dont mind Stanton in the 3rd if we dont take Quinn, we certainly need a backup and Stanton is a similar player to TJ, meaning we can build a system that suits both at the same time instead of having to remove a whole lot of plays should TJ get hurt or fail.

Definitely OLine and WR is our biggest weakness, the big problem is that the only guys that give value at 7 at those positions are likely to be gone in the first 4 picks(Thomas and CJ) and the next guys worth taking are in the 15-20 range. Personally I think we should either take Brady Quinn or trade up for CJ or down for an O-Lineman.

jerthemessiah
03-07-2007, 01:30 AM
Who cares what Tom Brady did with that lower-tier talent?? He is maybe the best quarterback in NFL history. How does a Viking QB pertain to what Tom Brady does on the field?

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid argument.You need to understand that in his mind Brady Quinn=Tom Brady even though Quinn has yet to wear an NFL uniform.

Crazy_Chris
03-07-2007, 01:32 AM
First off i would make the Deal if that was the deal our 1st, 3rd, and 5th but most liekly savage wouldnt be asking such a low price.


Now
The only thing on here "getting old" is this Minnesotan sports mentality that losers are satsifactory.....Kevin Garnett is the pinacle of this belief.

I understand you are caught up in your dislike of T-Jack but Thats just uncalled for, why do have to bring the hate onto KG too. KG is the only thing good left in this generation of Sports he's a true Superstar, a great guy, and a class act. Minnesota is truely lucky to have such a guy represent them its not his fault Kevin Mchale is an incompitent fool that cannot Provide the vital amount of talent around him that the T-wolves need(although Foye looks promising), basketball is a superstar sport but all superstars need some kind of support to suceed no one can do it all by themselves... I applaud KG for his comitment to the t-wolves, and that comitment is the reason why he is and will be my absolute Favorite Player out of all sports. I dont get where you think that losing is satisfactory comes from garnett, in all reality if he leaves the wolves would be horrid we would have the worst record for years to come, just stick to your T-Jack hate but leave KG out of it.

jerthemessiah
03-07-2007, 01:41 AM
hahahaha...ya'll vastly over rate the Reche Caldwell's and ND O-Line ...not to mention the whole point of Tom Brady is WHAT HE DID with that low tier talent....they were 2 plays from another trip to the S.B.
I was talking about the Pats o-line. They have 5 guys that can block. The Vikings have 2.5: Birk, Hutch and McKennie is shakey at times he's a half. Maybe 3/4.

Pats o-line > Vikes o-line
Pats running game > Vikes running game
Pats recievers > Vikes recievers
Pats coaching staff > Vikes coaching staff

Pats have a great defense too. It's not Tom Brady vs. The NFL.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 04:11 AM
Who cares what Tom Brady did with that lower-tier talent?? He is maybe the best quarterback in NFL history. How does a Viking QB pertain to what Tom Brady does on the field?

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid argument.

aaawwee did your arguement get ousted for the lame duck that it is ?
Tom Brady took a team of scrubs to the AFC Championship game.
Not saying the Defense and Troy brown didn't help, but no other QB that's ever donned a uniform could take that team and make them as successful as they did. They're signing F/A this year to replenish their current crop of aged stars...A.Thomas over Banta Cain , Samuel was resigned and Donte Stallworth and Moss are rumored to be going there because Robert Kraft finally cracked open the wallet....if he didn't Brady would've taken another Patriot team lacking in premier talent to the playoffs, and probably to another Championship game...something no current Viking Qb can do.

Brady Quinn is very much like Brady in his poise, command of an offense, on the field leadership, timed throwing routes, strength of arms...and both were schooled under Charlie Weiss...so the relevance here between them is galaxy's more than you've ever shown for your support or logic in keeping Jackson other than "he's here and we like him because we traded up for him" gigantic overstatements as to why a guy with support that yeilds little more than that should be handed the starting gig.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 04:21 AM
I understand you are caught up in your dislike of T-Jack but Thats just uncalled for, why do have to bring the hate onto KG too. KG is the only thing good left in this generation of Sports he's a true Superstar, a great guy, and a class act. Minnesota is truely lucky to have such a guy represent them its not his fault Kevin Mchale is an incompitent fool that cannot Provide the vital amount of talent around him that the T-wolves need(although Foye looks promising), basketball is a superstar sport but all superstars need some kind of support to suceed no one can do it all by themselves... I applaud KG for his comitment to the t-wolves, and that comitment is the reason why he is and will be my absolute Favorite Player out of all sports. I dont get where you think that losing is satisfactory comes from garnett, in all reality if he leaves the wolves would be horrid we would have the worst record for years to come, just stick to your T-Jack hate but leave KG out of it.

I use Garnett because he's exactly what this state loves 1 guy to fall for (like a Puckett or a Moss) guys who are expected to do everything by themselves without so much as a sniff of help from the greedy gus's that run their teams. The Timberwolves are easily the worst orginization in sports...from their ineptitude at draft analysis or ability to coach and teach their draft picks into peforming is beyond riddiculous. McHale has Garnett to hang his hat on as far as successful players selected and groomed (the reason he was brought here) in what is it 11 years ? They've begun dumping on coaches as the scape goat...seriously, McHale's blundering makes Matt Millen, by comparison, look like Einstien's mental superior.
The fans don't even get upset because Garnett is actually good enough to make that rag tag bunch a playoff contender year in and yaer out...but when the season's over...so is the help KG has ever been given.
Same with Moss...during 99, 2000 and 2001 who did we sign or draft that was that help at LB and the secondary that would've put that team over the top ? WHo ? I agree in the Daunte pick and think it was a wise move ..but seriously owners of Minnesota sports franchises realized long ago that the fan base here really only cares about getting that 1 player so they can hang the franchises success on that 1 player. And right now the Vikes don't even have that !

It's turned into a culture of ignornace, as most Minnesotans are now so stubborn as to wanting that 1 player that they can't see the overall
picture of what it would actually take to make the team better.


and so we're clear I don't "hate" Jackson, I just don't think he has what's neccesary to be a QB that can make a difference for this team...just because he wears purple doesn't mean I have to don the rose colored glasses and make beleive he's something he's not.
I'd encourage everyone to do the same.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 04:27 AM
I was talking about the Pats o-line. They have 5 guys that can block. The Vikings have 2.5: Birk, Hutch and McKennie is shakey at times he's a half. Maybe 3/4.

Pats o-line > Vikes o-line
Pats running game > Vikes running game
Pats recievers > Vikes recievers
Pats coaching staff > Vikes coaching staff

Pats have a great defense too. It's not Tom Brady vs. The NFL.

The Patriots O-Line is good...but the Vikes have more talent. Perhaps if we didn't flip from from the ZBS to man blocking or trap blocking we could've gained the cohessiveness to make it a real weapon to end the year.

The Pats WR's last year compared to ours is a joke. Robinson / Taylor and Williamson were worlds better than any 3 you could come up with from the Pats team that lost to the Colts in the AFC title game.

The Running game's to me are even. For long term value I'd take Maroney ..but a run down Dillon and Heath Evans aren't as good as
Mewelde Moore and Artrose Pinner.....this one probably slightly favors
the Vikes, but for arguements sake I'll call it even.

Thier Defense is better than ours...there's no denying that. but it mainly has to do with the LB'ers...Bruschi / Vrabel / Banta Cain /Seau... are worlds better than any 2 LB'ers we have to match them up with.
Asante Samuel to me still isn't as good as Winfield (though it's close)

You make it sound like the Vikes were some sandlot squad and the Patriots team was 30 or 35 all pro's when that simply wasn't the case. As a team
the Patriots have belief in each other which makes them better (the coaching is far superior, I'll give ya that...it's not even debateable) but as far as talent , it's not as far off as you'd like to believe or have anyone else beleive. I'm not saying if we take Quinn we're making the title game in 07...but he'd give us a helluva lot better shot IMO to be there in 09 than any QB we have now.

jerthemessiah
03-07-2007, 06:33 AM
The Patriots O-Line is good...but the Vikes have more talent. Perhaps if we didn't flip from from the ZBS to man blocking or trap blocking we could've gained the cohessiveness to make it a real weapon to end the year. But they didn't flip, hence the Pats line played better. The Vikings gave up more sacks. It wouldn't matter if McKennie was pro bowler too. The right side is terrible.


The Pats WR's last year compared to ours is a joke. Robinson / Taylor and Williamson were worlds better than any 3 you could come up with from the Pats team that lost to the Colts in the AFC title game.
When I say recievers, I think guys that can catch the ball. It includes TE's and to a much lesser extent the RB's(unless it's a guy like Tiki or L.T.). It's basically the weapons a QB has to work with on passing downs. This includes Graham and Watson. For the Vikes Wiggins and Jimmy.

I'm pretty sure everyone would want to swap WR's and TE's with the Pats that is a Vikes fan. Graham and Watson alone are worth it.


The Running game's to me are even. For long term value I'd take Maroney ..but a run down Dillon and Heath Evans aren't as good as
Mewelde Moore and Artrose Pinner.....this one probably slightly favors
the Vikes, but for arguements sake I'll call it even.Run down Dillon ran for 13 TD's compared to the 12 TD's for everyone in Purple. I'd take Maroney and Dillon over any back on the Vikings roster. Dillon if it was for just one year.


You make it sound like the Vikes were some sandlot squad and the Patriots team was 30 or 35 all pro's when that simply wasn't the case. As a team
the Patriots have belief in each other which makes them better (the coaching is far superior, I'll give ya that...it's not even debateable) but as far as talent , it's not as far off as you'd like to believe or have anyone else beleive. I'm not saying if we take Quinn we're making the title game in 07...but he'd give us a helluva lot better shot IMO to be there in 09 than any QB we have now. The Vikings offense is near sandlot calibur. They have a center, a guard, an ok tackle, and ok running back and questions marks everywhere else.

crazyisme
03-07-2007, 09:37 AM
i dont think its as far fetched as severe and other posters may seem, obviously im not saying that it is going to happen or that theres a good chance its going to happen, im just saying its better than most people think, our FO was aggressive in going after the guy they wanted last draft and Speilman has a history of giving away draft picks for players he covets

we also have had a laid back approach in this FA toward WRs, and theres no way this FO thinks that with this group of WR's our offense is going to improve at all next season, they werent aggressive at all in getting anyone in here we had curtis visit and thats all we didnt contact bennett we havent contacted horn its like we have no interest in any WR...i think thats a little strange considering our position

imo wed have to give up more than a 3rd and a 5th to move up, but id be willing to give up our 2nd rounder next year and a first and 3rd this year to get him, then add an OG in the second grab Francis in the 4th figurs in the 5th and our team looks much better.

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:31 AM
The Vikings are completely different from the Patriots. Even if they have no well-known offensive weapons, they still have a great coach, and a stone-solid defense. To think our offense would still be in the same position in 2007 with Calvin Johnson as it was in 2006 is ridiculous.

andyjo672
03-07-2007, 10:34 AM
hahahaha...ya'll vastly over rate the Reche Caldwell's and ND O-Line ...not to mention the whole point of Tom Brady is WHAT HE DID with that low tier talent....they were 2 plays from another trip to the S.B.

Quinn is more like Brady than Jackson or Bollinger resemble an NFL QB.
That's just a sad fact.

and finding a WR is much simpler and easier in the draft or through F/A than a QB will ever be.

This team needs a QB for the future....Jackson and Bollinger are NOT it.
The only thing on here "getting old" is this Minnesotan sports mentality that losers are satsifactory.....Kevin Garnett is the pinacle of this belief.

How can you say "thats just a sad fact." How in any way is that fact? I mean really, you can't just throw that word around. Its really annoying. Because you make comparisons that in no way can be made yet, you simply say that is "fact"

Also, why do your responses come up on here as if you hit the "enter" button half way through most of your sentences so that they're broken up and difficult to read? Is it some sort of tactic to make people not read your responses because its a hassle and thus not allow them to see that you make no points whatsoever and simply claim it as fact?

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:42 AM
If we were to get Calvin Johnson, it would make sense for us to give Jackson one more year to prove himself. If he can't get it done, we should see what veteran QBs are on the market, or maybe see if any more college QBs develop during the season into NFL prospects.

crazyisme
03-07-2007, 10:51 AM
i think johnson could turn this team around by himself offensively, he has the potential to be such a force he would make teams have to addapt to cover him creating more room for others and the running game

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:55 AM
I don't think Johnson could turn it around by himself. Just look at Andre Johnson in Houston. Jackson would have to improve.

crazyisme
03-07-2007, 11:25 AM
the big difference though is that first of all calvin is a much better looing and more highly touted prospect than andre was, not to mention we have a better running game and a better offensive line than houston had

i think the combination of a great WR, a good line, (at least 3/5s of it) and a pretty darn good running game will help turn this offense around, right now we are missing that WR, if we get that WR itll make all the difference in the world, IMO

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 03:21 PM
But they didn't flip, hence the Pats line played better. The Vikings gave up more sacks. It wouldn't matter if McKennie was pro bowler too. The right side is terrible.
Their scheme is better because it's consistent. Howevre player for player
our lineman have so much more skill , it's not even close.
McKinnie is a pro bowler (just not last year) Hutch and Birk are very
close to if not THE premier talents at their positions. The right side
sucked major donkey, I won't try and deny that , but McKinnie / Birk and
Hutch are 3 of the best lineman in the game. Our talent is higher , their
consistent scheme works better...it doesn't mean they have more talent.
They're just better at utilizing it than we are.


When I say recievers, I think guys that can catch the ball. It includes TE's and to a much lesser extent the RB's(unless it's a guy like Tiki or L.T.). It's basically the weapons a QB has to work with on passing downs. This includes Graham and Watson. For the Vikes Wiggins and Jimmy.

Here's every player that caught a pass for N.E. last year.
Player .....................Catches....Yards
Reche Caldwell..............61.........760
Benjamin Watson...........49.........643
Troy Brown...................43..........384
Kevin Faulk...................43..........356
Doug Gabriel.................25..........344
Daniel Graham...............21..........235
Laurence Maroney..........22..........194
David Thomas................11..........159
Chad Jackson................13..........152
Corey Dillon..................15...........147
Jabar Gaffney................11..........142
Heath Evans..................7............34
Patrick Pass..................2............24
Kelvin Kight...................1.............9
Brandon Childress...........2.............7

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/NE


I'm pretty sure everyone would want to swap WR's and TE's with the Pats that is a Vikes fan. Graham and Watson alone are worth it.

Why exactly is that ? Perhaps you're confussed as to Graham and Watson's
actual value as recievers. Watson had 49 catches Wiggins 46 (in an off year)
Graham had 21 catches Kliensauser and Dugan combined for 13. But you have to take this into context too...we threw to the TE fewer times in 06 than in the previous 3 years by a ton. Watson is the superior talent, but
he had all of 3 more catches than Wiggins in a Wiggins "down year".
Brady's talent level around him as far as catching the ball was roughly the same as Johnson and Jackson had to work with in 06. The major difference is that druing "crunch time" they didn't penalize themselves and they kept the ball..got points where we drew flags, turned 3rd and 2 into 3rd and 6..
threw a 4 yard pass...then punted. Giving up possible points.
We finished 6-10 but could've very easily been 8-8...which would've put us in the playoffs.

Run down Dillon ran for 13 TD's compared to the 12 TD's for everyone in Purple. I'd take Maroney and Dillon over any back on the Vikings roster. Dillon if it was for just one year. Dillon was the designated goal line back...and good for him that he was able to score that many times.
But don't for one second think that he was breaking off 20 yard runs every game. The Pats worked the ball down the field methodically and punched it in from a few yards out (the same thing we tried to do, they just did it penalty free) Chester Taylor handled the rock 100 more times than did Dillon and
managed to average the same amount of yards per touch. Taylor is in a tier
above Dillon who at this point in his career is nothing more than a part timer.
I like L.Maroney too (I am a Gopher season ticket holder for the last 15+ seasons) but he's not durable...the Pats are a punishing style of offense and he's just not going to be able to run the ball 250+ times a year.
Taylor's speed is comparable, and his hands are better...Maroney's vision and
hip movement is on another level....to me Taylor's durability and ability to
run between the tackles without a high fumble rate , and better hands out of the backfield makes him the better back. But to each his own.


The Vikings offense is near sandlot calibur. They have a center, a guard, an ok tackle, and ok running back and questions marks everywhere else. That's more likely frustration than logical thought. Look we're all Viking fans and are tired of seeing them out of the playoffs. And this system that's being assembled is now and unfamiliar....which is scary. But the kind
of people / system we have in place wins. We have to trust it, and not be a perenial Lions or Cardinals who every 2 years run a system then get so frustrated that they throw everything away...having to constantly rebuild.
Tice did very little for us system wise (just tried copying what Denny did)
Childress is doing the same thing...for the most part but what good right now
would it do to scrap it all again , before we really understand what it is this team is trying to do.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 03:26 PM
How can you say "thats just a sad fact." How in any way is that fact? I mean really, you can't just throw that word around. Its really annoying. Because you make comparisons that in no way can be made yet, you simply say that is "fact"

Also, why do your responses come up on here as if you hit the "enter" button half way through most of your sentences so that they're broken up and difficult to read? Is it some sort of tactic to make people not read your responses because its a hassle and thus not allow them to see that you make no points whatsoever and simply claim it as fact?

Oohh I don't know , how about the same guy who eleveated Brady's game (Charlie Weiss) moulded Quinn into a Bradyesque clone.
41 td's 7 picks...you make the connection.
I said he's more like Brady than Jackson or Bollinger..which is a fact, unless of course Jackson or Bolllinger studied under Weiss and or Billichek and no one seems to know it but you...it's a fact.

Just
To make everyone
in
this room happy
I guess
.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 03:33 PM
i think johnson could turn this team around by himself offensively, he has the potential to be such a force he would make teams have to addapt to cover him creating more room for others and the running game
This and this reason alone is why Viking fans think they know what they want when they want Calvin Johnson...just think about this "he can do it all himself" thinking. If he was soooooo good that he could dominate games AT THE PRO LEVEL by himself..they how exactly did the Yellow Jackets every lose a game ???? He's good, he's not a God...get off his jock.
We run a WCO , we're not trading up for a WR who wouldn't fit the offense we currently have here. He's a vertical WR, not a short possession guy..he shys away from contact....and is going to be a Moss type WR in the NFL.
A guy who runs the deep outs the deep comeback and the post / fly route.
He could even be a guy who you can use at the goal line. If Tice were
still here or Denny then he'd be the perfect fit because that was the type of offense we ran. Now we throw 3-6 yard quick slants and flat passes ...CJ would be an utter waste here , except for the 2 fly patterns we run a game.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 03:38 PM
the big difference though is that first of all calvin is a much better looing and more highly touted prospect than andre was, not to mention we have a better running game and a better offensive line than houston had

i think the combination of a great WR, a good line, (at least 3/5s of it) and a pretty darn good running game will help turn this offense around, right now we are missing that WR, if we get that WR itll make all the difference in the world, IMO

Also incorrect. Andre Johnson was very much on the same level leaving school as was Johnson. In fact Johnson had helped lead the Caines to a Nat'l Championship game. Andre Johnson and Randy Moss both out of college were better prepared and better WR's than CJ.

Putting Calvin Johnson on last years team wasn't giong to win us any more games.

Crazy_Chris
03-07-2007, 06:29 PM
Putting CJ on the team last year and he wins us 0-6 more games last year, how many games were we close to winning in the last quater? lets see Bills, First Chicago game, 49ers, Packers(both games),dolphins ... now CJ isnt a miracle worker and cant win by himself but having him a RELIABLE deep threat in the passsing game would have been a world of a difference late in all the close games we had.

crazyisme
03-07-2007, 06:40 PM
Also incorrect. Andre Johnson was very much on the same level leaving school as was Johnson. In fact Johnson had helped lead the Caines to a Nat'l Championship game. Andre Johnson and Randy Moss both out of college were better prepared and better WR's than CJ.

Putting Calvin Johnson on last years team wasn't giong to win us any more games.



you are completely and absolutely WRONG on this, as usual severe. Calvin is much more thought of than Andre was and either way, Andre could easily have a similar effect as Calvin would on this team, he would also change this team around.

We run a WCO , we're not trading up for a WR who wouldn't fit the offense we currently have here. He's a vertical WR, not a short possession guy..he shys away from contact....and is going to be a Moss type WR in the NFL.

this just makes you lose the very little credibility you had, this is the dumbest statement i have ever read in my life, i honest to god think that a 4th grader with downs syndrome is smarter than you (no offense to kids like that, its a terrible disease!) you are a flat out idiot severe, bottom line, you know absolutely nothing

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 09:41 PM
you are completely and absolutely WRONG on this, as usual severe. Calvin is much more thought of than Andre was and either way, Andre could easily have a similar effect as Calvin would on this team, he would also change this team around.
Your man lust for CJ is out of control...seek help.
Calvin Johnson was a very good prospect on a horrible team with very little
options. That's one main reason he was thrown at 70+ times.
Andre Johnson is just as good as CJ. If Miami was as bad a program as
GT has been ...then perhaps fewer blue chip recruits might have gone to Da U and they wouldn't have sent 16 players in the NFL in 2001...and guys
like Willis McGahee would've gone elsewhere...leaving Andre to fill a larger role in Miami's offense. Oh well could've should've,whatever..your assestment of football prospects is horrible, the only thing worse I'd say is your bombardment of trade scenario's on here. You're obviously in junior high.


This just makes you lose the very little credibility you had, this is the dumbest statement i have ever read in my life, i honest to god think that a 4th grader with downs syndrome is smarter than you (no offense to kids like that, its a terrible disease!) you are a flat out idiot severe, bottom line, you know absolutely nothing
I wish you had any credibility so might take it from you.
The rest of this tantrum is going to get you a warning from a mod.
Good day.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 09:43 PM
Putting CJ on the team last year and he wins us 0-6 more games last year, how many games were we close to winning in the last quater? lets see Bills, First Chicago game, 49ers, Packers(both games),dolphins ... now CJ isnt a miracle worker and cant win by himself but having him a RELIABLE deep threat in the passsing game would have been a world of a difference late in all the close games we had.

Speculation...nothing more. If we had 1 WR to catch the ball last year it might've helped, might not have. Taylor had at least 5 first downs called back because of holding or other various penalties. This team needs to figure out how to sustain a drive without a penalty before they can start worrying about how to get the ball into the endzone.

The only thing I'll agree with is "CJ is not a miracle worker" ...you're absolutely right..the sooner people in here figure this out, the better.

andyjo672
03-07-2007, 10:25 PM
Speculation...nothing more. If we had 1 WR to catch the ball last year it might've helped, might not have. Taylor had at least 5 first downs called back because of holding or other various penalties. This team needs to figure out how to sustain a drive without a penalty before they can start worrying about how to get the ball into the endzone.

The only thing I'll agree with is "CJ is not a miracle worker" ...you're absolutely right..the sooner people in here figure this out, the better.

Speculation? Just like your comment about how because Brady Quinn studied under Weiss it is a FACT that he will likely do better in the NFL. Yet another contradiction from the man who claims to be more intelligent just because he takes the side as the Devil's Advocate.

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:40 PM
I know Calvin Johnson is not a miracle worker. I know he couldn't take the Vikes offense into the top half of the league by himself. I have to believe theat Tarvaris Jackson will be improved after an offseasons worth of work and studying, and a bout through training camp. Jackson won't be a rookie anymore, and he should have some confidence if he is convinced that he is Childress' guy. We could make Calvin Johnson one of the foundations of our offense.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 10:50 PM
All this Calvin Johnson talk is worthless anyways..as we're not trading up to get him, and he's not falling to 7.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 10:51 PM
Speculation? Just like your comment about how because Brady Quinn studied under Weiss it is a FACT that he will likely do better in the NFL. Yet another contradiction from the man who claims to be more intelligent just because he takes the side as the Devil's Advocate.
Brady Quinn will be an NFL stud. Bank on that.

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:52 PM
All this Calvin Johnson talk is worthless anyways..as we're not trading up to get him, and he's not falling to 7.

True true, but speculation is the base of a forum like this.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 10:55 PM
If speculation is the basis of a forum , then the forum is pointless to read.

how about "I think that Superman should come in and take over MLB"
do you see how irrelevance as discussion is worthless ?

Vikes99ej
03-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Just look at the NFL Draft and Mock Draft forum, and then talk to me about speculation.

Severe Punishment
03-07-2007, 11:08 PM
Mock forums are different. Mock when used as a noun means
" 4 a: an act of imitation b: something made as an imitation":
This is straight from webster.

People go to that forum knowing that nothing there has to make
any sense. But these team discussion threads, insight that the discussion revolves around the team....not speculation.
I'm all for people bringing up new ideas and think they add a certain "fun factor" when talking about the team...but the barage of nonstop "what if we trade XXX for CJ" discussion has been beaten to death. There's no point
in new threads starting up ,or every other thread turning into the same "trade for CJ this way" type of thread.

Crazy_Chris
03-08-2007, 12:21 AM
Yes i absolutly agree this trade for CJ discussion has been beaten to death. we know where we all stand on that issue... but the discussion thats been beaten even worse is the should the vikings draft Quinn/is Jackson the man minnesota disscusion our arguing is getting to be very redundant, back and forth the same things being said we all have our points and thoughts about it we should move on and talk about other things

Vikes99ej
03-08-2007, 10:41 AM
As much as I'd love to have Calvin Johnson, I'd much rather keep the pick, take Quinn, and use the rest of our picks on WR and defense. And if Quinn is gone, get LaRon Landry.

JoeMontainya
03-08-2007, 10:42 AM
I think its getting pretty realistic the Browns draft Brady Quinn.

Vikes99ej
03-08-2007, 10:44 AM
Yep. I was thinking that the Browns would take Quinn now that they got Jamal Lewis. Looks like LaRon Landry for us, then.

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 11:19 AM
Yep. I was thinking that the Browns would take Quinn now that they got Jamal Lewis. Looks like LaRon Landry for us, then.

I still think they take AD, I thought oh Quinn to Browns but i dont know its only a 1 year contract. I'd be happy with Landry or Adams.

Vikes99ej
03-08-2007, 12:04 PM
I hate to say it, but I think Adams is out of our reach. I think either the Cards or Skins take him.

Severe Punishment
03-08-2007, 02:00 PM
lol, Joe Montania...just because you've lobbied your teams draft room and gotten those guys to change their minds to now want to draft Quinn doesn't mean that "it's now pretty realistic"..unless of course you meant in your mind.

The Lions sent 6 coaches to Quinn's workout, and apparently Kevin Curtis fired his agent for being to involved in Quinn's pro day. To be honest
I would only be shocked if Quinn went to Oakland.

What I came in here for though was to say how upset I am that the Vikes didn't work a deal for McGahee...if we ever wanted a 2 back system .....a
3rd and a 7th for a guy who could get 1,000 yards playing part time behind
our line..is inexcusable. Seriously, why not offer up this years 3rd....next years 5th ? ....I hate the idea of giving up 1st or even 2nd round picks...but 3rd rounders are never a sure thing. McGahee didn't even want to play in Buffalo anymore. He'd been on the "block" for about 2 weeks now and I'd yet
to see anything that said we even had interest. Baltimore must be laughing thier arses off at Cleveland...they unload Jammal Lewis who has shown little since thier S.B. run ..6 years ago. and they pick up a younger , harder runner and instead of shelling out huge money on a F/A they spend a 3rd rounder (how many 7th rounders even make their teams?)

...now I'm pissed.

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 02:47 PM
No way McGahee would share the roles im sorry. Yes McGahee he wanted out of buffalo but he isnt the type of player that wants to share roles with a guy who is trying to become a backup.

With Gaines being out of Reach, yeah i figure that but Draft is weird sometimes and you just never know so i hope he falls but Id like to see Landry.

Severe Punishment
03-08-2007, 03:03 PM
He might not want to "share" carries...and maybe Drew Roesenhous (sp) has convinced him he's something he's not...but he would've been a helluva RB to compliment Taylor.

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 03:21 PM
He might not want to "share" carries...and maybe Drew Roesenhous (sp) has convinced him he's something he's not...but he would've been a helluva RB to compliment Taylor.

Yes it would be a great Tandem but it would never worked out in year 2...Might work first year.

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 03:36 PM
I saw on profootballtalk.com that theres a rumor that the Bucs are trying to trade Plummer for Moss. If this is true and happens this would affect us greatly with CJ falling maybe to 7.

tylere0814
03-08-2007, 03:47 PM
IF the raiders trade Moss. CJ will be the number one pick. PERIOD. he's the most talented player in the draft, the type of player you dont pass up on. so IF moss gets traded look for Oakland to draft CJ. If they dont trade Moss, they'll probably go after AD or Russell

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 04:20 PM
IF the raiders trade Moss. CJ will be the number one pick. PERIOD. he's the most talented player in the draft, the type of player you dont pass up on. so IF moss gets traded look for Oakland to draft CJ. If they dont trade Moss, they'll probably go after AD or Russell

Ya i never thought of the raiders when i was typing this nevermind ya'll can void what i said. Good Point. I wasnt thinking

Severe Punishment
03-08-2007, 04:43 PM
I saw on profootballtalk.com that theres a rumor that the Bucs are trying to trade Plummer for Moss. If this is true and happens this would affect us greatly with CJ falling maybe to 7.

ummm Plummer retired didn't he ? I know they still hold his rights..but how much value can a guy have when he says he no longer has desire to play ??? plus how far has Moss' stock fallen over the last year??? WOW.

The Dynasty
03-08-2007, 05:07 PM
I think they said it wasnt true that he didnt. Plus i said Void what i said which means dont pay attention to it.

Vikes99ej
03-08-2007, 05:22 PM
The Raiders would be stupid to pick Calvin Johnson #1. They need to start anew with a franchise QB, or maybe get an offensive tackle. The Raiders will still suck with Calvin Johnson, Andrew Walter, and that offensive line. It might not be any better with Russell, but the 2008 reciever and tackle class is loaded to the brim with talent.

Severe Punishment
03-08-2007, 06:24 PM
So let me get this straight...Calvin Johnson (on here the greatest thing since sliced bread) is good enough to take a young , bad to average QB like T Jackson "to the next level" .....yet the Raiders would be stupid for doing the exaxct same thing with Andrew Walter.

Just so I understand this, CJ is worth trading up for...unless you're already up at the top of the draft...then suddenly it'd be a mistake to take him.

Crazy_Chris
03-08-2007, 07:17 PM
...about the whole Quinn to Browns thing i dont thinks its gotten that much more possible, Actually with the signing of lewis it just made Adrian chances fall a little bit i think they might still take him, but i think they might be gearing up to take Calvin Johnson themselves and anyways i still think they take Alan Branch, Joe Thomas, and Adrian Peterson before they take Quinn becauses i think Romeo likes frye still

Severe Punishment
03-08-2007, 09:32 PM
Not only that. I have a suspicion that Crennell has "earmarked" Troy Smith in the 3rd to be his guy (if they go QB at all...Derrick Anderson is high on Romeo's list)..this way he can bolster either line and add a playmaker elsewhere. Personally, with the losing bentley for another year I think it'd make perfect sense for them to take Kalil in the 2nd if he's there
and if / when L.C. comes back they move Kalil to RG.
In the first I agree they'll probably be looking A.D.
Jammal Lewis' deal was for a year, and it looks like he's the fill in until they know what exactly they have in A.D.