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Havok69
04-13-2009, 05:53 PM
4-3 DT's on teams moving to the 3-4. What are their futures?

bored of education
04-13-2009, 05:53 PM
Richer than me. :(

Hurricanes25
04-13-2009, 05:55 PM
I think its very possible that Dorsey gets trade. He is not a good fit in the 3-4. Im not sure on Harrell

RaiderNation
04-13-2009, 05:56 PM
Dorsey to Atlanta for their 1st this year and comp picks to see how good he plays?

Shahin
04-13-2009, 06:04 PM
Has Harrell even done much in the 43?

SeanTaylorRIP
04-13-2009, 06:05 PM
Dorsey to Atlanta for their 1st this year and comp picks to see how good he plays?

You can't trade compensatory picks.

bored of education
04-13-2009, 06:05 PM
Reports I have read about Dorsey is that some teams (e.g Patriots) were looking at him to be a 3-4 DE.

brat316
04-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Would Dorsey play 3-4 end? By measurable it doesn't seem like to bad of a fit for him, but his is fast enough?

jj45
04-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Dorsey to chicago for a second and fifth next year

brat316
04-13-2009, 06:10 PM
they are not trading him.

TACKLE
04-13-2009, 06:10 PM
I think Dorsey could be a very good 3-4 DE. Although he doesn't have ideal height, he's strong at the point of attack and can also penetrate and rush the passer. Similar situation to a guy like Darnell Dockett. Dockett was a real nice 3-tech and has brought those skills over to being one of the best 3-4 DE's in the league.

Geo
04-13-2009, 06:10 PM
For as much as Dorsey was termed "Baby Sapp" I didn't think he was that great a pass rusher, but he was good/better against the run. Plus didn't last year's Chiefs regime make him gain some weight?

So maybe it works out. I would hate to trade him away, even if I was running a 3-4 defense. The cap hit is just not worth it to give him up, and as mentioned above, maybe it works out at 3-4 DE better.

Hang onto him.

LonghornsLegend
04-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Dorsey was arguably the top player in the entire draft last year, he played his entire first year out of position, now he'll go to another position and defense he doesn't even fit, and then people wonder why some guys end up being a bust.


Dorsey is probably going to end up just another player, I'd look around to shop him if the contract wasn't holding them up...He could be OK as a 3-4 DE, but not nearly the impact player you would expect with a top 5 pick.

Mr. Hero
04-13-2009, 06:14 PM
Dorsey will do fine since Pendergast will likely have a one gape scheme. So he won't need to be the massive gap eating NT we're used to seeing. Think a better Jay Ratliff.

Harrell's got to stay healthy for him to have any future in any scheme. I think he could be a good DE but that's really just a guess.

brat316
04-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Dorsey was arguably the top player in the entire draft last year, he played his entire first year out of position, now he'll go to another position and defense he doesn't even fit, and then people wonder why some guys end up being a bust.


Dorsey is probably going to end up just another player, I'd look around to shop him if the contract wasn't holding them up...He could be OK as a 3-4 DE, but not nearly the impact player you would expect with a top 5 pick.

But tahts the thing, 3-4DE don't make impact plays, they are not the usual DE taht are sack artist.

brat316
04-13-2009, 06:20 PM
Dorsey will do fine since Pendergast will likely have a one gape scheme. So he won't need to be the massive gap eating NT we're used to seeing. Think a better Jay Ratliff.

Harrell's got to stay healthy for him to have any future in any scheme. I think he could be a good DE but that's really just a guess.

No way Dorsey plays NT.

princefielder28
04-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Justin Harrell needs to stay healthy before he has any sort of future in this league. He can't be relied upon and Ted Thompson has invested quite a bit in him; drafting him #16 overall and then trading Corey Williams the following offseason and placing more faith in Harrell. So far every part of the Harrell investment has been awful and a change to the 3-4 can't hurt Harrell's chances of producing b/c he can't produce any less than he has in his first two years.

PACKmanN
04-13-2009, 06:23 PM
Has Harrell even done much in the 43?

nothing, same thing that Dorsey has done.


Harrell is playing DE in the 3-4, you could have just searched it up.

keylime_5
04-13-2009, 06:24 PM
prototypical 3 technique, he's not a good fit at DE in a 3-4. However what Pendergast will likely run is more of a 4-3 with a lot of 3-4 tendencies, because in Arizona they never ran a true 3-4 under him. Harrell fits, but he has been hurt and hasn't done a thing, he needs to get on the field and learn the game before anyone worries what defensive system he is in.

AJHawk50
04-13-2009, 06:24 PM
You picked my two teams!

Dorsey will still be a stud...Harrell I'm not so high on.

Thumper
04-13-2009, 06:50 PM
IDK Dorsey might fit at NT he stopped the run well his rookie year and he has a short squatty build and maybe he could play a Darnell Dockett or a Jay Ratliff type role. Pendergast ran a kind of hybrid 4-3 + 3-4 system so I think Dorsey will do alright.

I liked Justin Harell since he was drafted but I just think he landed in a bad situation. The Packers were stacked at DT when he got there and he never really got a shot at a starting job and now he has to play as a 3-4 DE where I think he might succeed because he has the measurables for it at 6'4" and 320 pounds. COming into the NFL he was known as a run stuffer who could penetrate the backfield and he fell because of injury so I still think he has potential seeing as he has only been pro for 2 years.

However I do think both teams made a bad descision because the Chiefs have Tamba Hali who doesn't fit in the 34 AT ALL and Dorsey is much better in a 4-3. Not to mention that Derrick Johnson is a better fit in the 4-3 as well. The Packers have Aaron Kampman moving to OLB which I don't think will work out well and AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett are both better suited for a 4-3.

M.O.T.H.
04-13-2009, 06:54 PM
He's already been slated to play NT.


New coach Todd Haley indicated that Glenn Dorsey will start the offseason out as a nose tackle.

The Chiefs want a 3-4 defense and have nothing close to a 3-4 nose tackle on their roster. It's pretty safe to say Dorsey isn't an answer either. He's at his best as an up-field penetrator and is generously listed at 6'2/302.
Source: Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1106883.html)


As someone said, if they adopt the one gap scheme...he could potentially be Ratliff esque. We'll have to wait and see what they do here, though.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 06:55 PM
Dorsey to Atlanta for their 1st this year and comp picks to see how good he plays?

I'd do that if it was only for our 1st

bored of education
04-13-2009, 06:57 PM
I am officially a Steelers fan.

brat316
04-13-2009, 06:59 PM
IDK Dorsey might fit at NT he stopped the run well his rookie year and he has a short squatty build and maybe he could play a Darnell Dockett or a Jay Ratliff type role. Pendergast ran a kind of hybrid 4-3 + 3-4 system so I think Dorsey will do alright.

I liked Justin Harell since he was drafted but I just think he landed in a bad situation. The Packers were stacked at DT when he got there and he never really got a shot at a starting job and now he has to play as a 3-4 DE where I think he might succeed because he has the measurables for it at 6'4" and 320 pounds. COming into the NFL he was known as a run stuffer who could penetrate the backfield and he fell because of injury so I still think he has potential seeing as he has only been pro for 2 years.

However I do think both teams made a bad descision because the Chiefs have Tamba Hali who doesn't fit in the 34 AT ALL and Dorsey is much better in a 4-3. Not to mention that Derrick Johnson is a better fit in the 4-3 as well. The Packers have Aaron Kampman moving to OLB which I don't think will work out well and AJ Hawk and Nick Barnett are both better suited for a 4-3.


If he is listed at 6'4 320 he would be better of playing NT then DE. When I think of 3-4 DE usually its the smaller DT with speed, but that are still strong to hold the point, pretty much Tampa 2 DT.

bored of education
04-13-2009, 06:59 PM
He's already been slated to play NT.



As someone said, if they adopt the one gap scheme...he could potentially be Ratliff esque. We'll have to wait and see what they do here, though.

Tank Tyler on a radio show today said he would be the NT. wtfzz KCzzz

GB12
04-13-2009, 07:10 PM
I liked Justin Harell since he was drafted but I just think he landed in a bad situation. The Packers were stacked at DT when he got there and he never really got a shot at a starting job and now he has to play as a 3-4 DE where I think he might succeed because he has the measurables for it at 6'4" and 320 pounds. COming into the NFL he was known as a run stuffer who could penetrate the backfield and he fell because of injury so I still think he has potential seeing as he has only been pro for 2 years.
That is not at all true. I'm not the typical Packer fan that hates Harrell, I've actually been of fan of the pick since before it was made, but you are dead wrong.

His rookie year he sat out of training camp because he was still recovering from his torn bicep. He also injured his ankle early in the season and missed 5 games. 2008 he was placed on the PUP list before training camp even started and didn't come back until week 6.

It wasn't that he landed in a bad situation and we didn't give him a chance, it's that he hasn't been able to stay on the field. Even when he has been on the field he has been 100%, which led to him being very unimpressive. He needs to go without injuring himself this offseason, come into training camp healthy, and then he can start trying to earn playing time.

Problem is that he's too much of a liability right now to go into the season with him as our starter. He gets hurt too much and he hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet. There's a good chance we take a DE in the first three rounds of the draft. We also still have Johnny Jolly who could beat him out. Nothing is going to be given too him. I'm not ready to call him a bust and think he could be a pretty good 3-4 DE if he gets his **** together, but he has a long way to go.

GB12
04-13-2009, 07:11 PM
If he is listed at 6'4 320 he would be better of playing NT then DE. When I think of 3-4 DE usually its the smaller DT with speed, but that are still strong to hold the point, pretty much Tampa 2 DT.
That's because you're just looking at size. Harrell is much better suited for 3-4 DE than NT.

Thumper
04-13-2009, 07:15 PM
^^^
Yeah injuries played a part as well but I am saying that the Packers had Corey Williams and Ryan Pickett along with 2 or 3 others who's names I can't remember. The combination of veterans in front of him and injuries haven't really given him a chance to show his worth.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2009, 07:20 PM
I'd do that if it was only for our 1st

You have to be kidding. He was the top player in the draft last year by most accounts, and we nearly took him with the third pick over a franchise quarterback.

I'd gladly give our first and a third or a first and future second or third round pick (depending on production).

AJHawk50
04-13-2009, 07:24 PM
^^^
Yeah injuries played a part as well but I am saying that the Packers had Corey Williams and Ryan Pickett along with 2 or 3 others who's names I can't remember. The combination of veterans in front of him and injuries haven't really given him a chance to show his worth.
Johnny Jolly and Colin Cole.

We have given him a chance, and he didn't do anything worthy of a 1st round pick let alone a 6th round pick.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 07:38 PM
You have to be kidding. He was the top player in the draft last year by most accounts, and we nearly took him with the third pick over a franchise quarterback.

I'd gladly give our first and a third or a first and future second or third round pick (depending on production).

maybe a 1st an a 3rd.
but i wouldnt do a 1st an 2nd. no way

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2009, 07:39 PM
I think it's funny how people sour on players so quickly.

Dorsey is the same player he was a year ago, he was just in a bad situation with no supporting cast on the defensive line.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 07:46 PM
I think it's funny how people sour on players so quickly.

Dorsey is the same player he was a year ago, he was just in a bad situation with no supporting cast on the defensive line.

who says im "souring" him?

vidae
04-13-2009, 08:12 PM
I think it's funny how people sour on players so quickly.

Dorsey is the same player he was a year ago, he was just in a bad situation with no supporting cast on the defensive line.

I was about to say the exact same thing. It's funny how many people are writing him off.

When he came out he was arguably the best player in the entire draft and now, a year later, he not only ABSOLUTELY CANNOT play the NT in the 3-4 but he would also be a bad 3-4 DE and he was absolutely terrible his rookie year?

Cut the guy some slack. He will still be a dominant player. You don't think this coaching staff/FO knows how to use him? The last one didn't but I don't think this new defensive coaching staff could be more incompetent than Gunther was.

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2009, 08:13 PM
who says im "souring" him?

Picks 24 and a third rounder is almost too much for a former top talent.

That is souring on a player.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Picks 24 and a third rounder is almost too much for a former top talent.

That is souring on a player.

did i not jus say i'd trade a 1st an a 3rd?

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2009, 08:20 PM
did i not jus say i'd trade a 1st an a 3rd?

You should try reading what I posted.

Almost is an important word.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 08:22 PM
maybe a 1st an a 3rd.
but i wouldnt do a 1st an 2nd. no way

umm. read it. i basically said i'd do it for a 1st an a 3rd....

BamaFalcon59
04-13-2009, 08:23 PM
umm. read it. i basically said i'd do it for a 1st an a 3rd....

You make zero sense.

Re-read the conversation.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 08:24 PM
You make zero sense.

Re-read the conversation.

i am so lost

Thumper
04-13-2009, 08:25 PM
umm. read it. i basically said i'd do it for a 1st an a 3rd....

SARCASM!! He is mocking you for saying that a first and a third is almost to much for the best player in the draft last year. Hence, you have soured him by underrating him by thinking a first and a third is too much.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 08:27 PM
SARCASM!! He is mocking you for saying that a first and a third is almost to much for the best player in the draft last year. Hence, you have soured him by underrating him by thinking a first and a third is too much.

wow i really needa get more sleep at night

Michael Carter
04-13-2009, 08:34 PM
wow i really needa get more sleep at night

Mr. Rath, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

SimonRath
04-13-2009, 08:35 PM
Mr. Rath, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

woooooooooooooooooooow. okay rookie

Thumper
04-13-2009, 08:35 PM
Mr. Rath, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

WHAT... THE... ****??? [says super slow]

FrankGore
04-13-2009, 08:40 PM
If it's the same Pendergast defense that was run in Arizona, I see him thriving. Darnell Dockett was an absolute monster and he is the sheer definition of a 1-gapper. If they do run a 3-4 it'll look more like that than something like what the Steelers run.

vidae
04-13-2009, 08:45 PM
If it's the same Pendergast defense that was run in Arizona, I see him thriving. Darnell Dockett was an absolute monster and he is the sheer definition of a 1-gapper. If they do run a 3-4 it'll look more like that than something like what the Steelers run.

I'm thinking the same thing. I don't get why he'd switch defenses so I'm looking for him to run the same thing he did in Arizona. Dorsey would be a good fit there.

TitanHope
04-13-2009, 08:49 PM
It's like a used car. Every time an unquantified player changes hands, his value goes down. Sure, someone can say, "Oh, but that's a 2008 Honda. So what if it's used?" Er, I mean Certified Pre-Owned.

Actually, that example makes no sense. It'd be wierd to trade a Top 5 pick after their rookie season. I love the Glenn Dorsey. But, what has he done as a rookie that makes you go "OMG! I has tuh have him!!"? He was a Top 5 talent, yet Jason Jones, Pat Sims, Sedrick Ellis, and Marcus Harrison all had better rookie seasons (Ellis has an excuse for being good tho).

Heck, William Hayes had the same amount of Sacks in his 8 active games than Dorsey had in his 16 starts. Now, ya'll may not remember William Hayes. He was the Titans' 4th RD pick, whom they traded up for, that no one knew who he was. ESPN listed him as "Williams Hayes" during their broadcast. Mel Kipah Jr. was the only one who knew who he was. God bless ya, Mel!

So is Dorsey worth a team's entire 1st Day? I don't think so. Not unless a team who fell in love with him last Draft knows he fits what they do and think he's worth it.

Flyboy
04-13-2009, 09:20 PM
WHAT... THE... ****??? [says super slow]

Billy Madison, much?

CashmoneyDrew
04-13-2009, 09:20 PM
The Titans will gladly take Justin Harrell off of the Packers hands! ;)

I think he'd be a beast if he could stay healthy. He was so good his junior year at UT. Then he tore his biceps like two games into his senior season. The week after he tore his biceps he actually postponed his surgery and played against Florida hurt. He's a warrior. At least IMO.

indyfan1985
04-14-2009, 10:09 AM
DT Glenn Dorsey to Indy for their 1st round pick. Dorsey doesnt fit well in the 3-4 because he is not tall enough and doesnt stop the run good enough to be a good 3-4 DE. He would be perfect in the Warren Sapp role for Indy.

D-Rod
04-14-2009, 10:21 AM
I'd love to pick up Dorsey, but I can't see KC eating the $20mill guaranteed (or whatever it is) without at least giving him a go in the 3-4, either as NT or DE.

bigbluedefense
04-14-2009, 12:38 PM
I liked the pieces they were drafting for their Cover 2 scheme.


I don't think Dorsey works in a 3-4. He's on the slippery bust slope right now. And not really his own fault either.

mqtirishfan
04-14-2009, 12:47 PM
^^^
Yeah injuries played a part as well but I am saying that the Packers had Corey Williams and Ryan Pickett along with 2 or 3 others who's names I can't remember. The combination of veterans in front of him and injuries haven't really given him a chance to show his worth.

Again, the injuries didn't just play a part, they were the whole damn thing. Ryan Pickett didn't cause Harrell to miss nearly every game with an injury.

AJHawk50
04-14-2009, 02:20 PM
Again, the injuries didn't just play a part, they were the whole damn thing. Ryan Pickett didn't cause Harrell to miss nearly every game with an injury.
Yes, he may be a good player...but...

1. He hasn't been able to stay on the field long enough to see.
2. When he was on the field he was a backup style player.

I hope I am proven wrong this year and he turns into a beast, but up until this point he has been a bust...not beast.

Mr.Regular
04-14-2009, 02:29 PM
The Titans will gladly take Justin Harrell off of the Packers hands! ;)

I think he'd be a beast if he could stay healthy. He was so good his junior year at UT. Then he tore his biceps like two games into his senior season. The week after he tore his biceps he actually postponed his surgery and played against Florida hurt. He's a warrior. At least IMO.
Take him, he hasn't done a damn thing in the NFL.

AJHawk50
04-14-2009, 02:32 PM
From what it seems like overall many other NFL fans would like to have him, but the Packer fans have seen how he is and we aren't as impressed. lol

TAMBA is HUNGRY!!!!
04-14-2009, 03:05 PM
Dorsey isn't going anywhere this year unless a trade comes along that is heavily in their favor. I'm sure Haley wants to see what Dorsey can do in their defense. Dorsey will have a big role in the defense this year because the 4-3 is still going to play a part.

Thunder&Lightning
04-14-2009, 04:57 PM
They wont trade him... no team wants to pay his contract especially after a mediocre year

umphrey
04-14-2009, 06:38 PM
I'm surprised anyone here cares about Harrell except for Packers and Tennessee fans. The guy could be a beast and probably play any of the 3 down line positions in the 3-4 but we've needed him to step up big time in the past and he stubs his toe and has to sit out.

mqtirishfan
04-14-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm surprised anyone here cares about Harrell except for Packers and Tennessee fans. The guy could be a beast and probably play any of the 3 down line positions in the 3-4 but we've needed him to step up big time in the past and he stubs his toe and has to sit out.

I disagree with the thought behind this post. I'll never question Harrell's toughness. He has simply had serious injuries.

CashmoneyDrew
04-14-2009, 07:36 PM
I disagree with the thought behind this post. I'll never question Harrell's toughness. He has simply had serious injuries.

For reals. Like I said earlier, when he tore his biceps his senior year he postponed surgery so he could play against Florida and give his team a shot at winning.

Number 10
04-14-2009, 10:37 PM
Dorsey can play a Jay Ratliff role in a 3-4

Some of you are forgetting that a simple tweak to the scheme can alter a NT's duty to a penetrator. Darnell Dockett?

brat316
04-14-2009, 11:40 PM
Dorsey can play a Jay Ratliff role in a 3-4

Some of you are forgetting that a simple tweak to the scheme can alter a NT's duty to a penetrator. Darnell Dockett?

Dockett played end though

LarryJohnson27
04-15-2009, 12:16 AM
http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/43_under_blitz_schemes.html

That is a long article where Pete Carroll explains the 4-3 Under scheme, which is the scheme Clancy will be running in KC. Coach Carroll clearly states the DE plays a 3 technique (which is also what Dockett played), so Dorsey will not be effected by the system. As a matter of fact i think he will thrive in it, as Coach Carroll talks about the allignment causing that DE to frequently end up in 1 on 1 matchups.