PDA

View Full Version : Mayock made it offical today, he has Sanchez as his #1 QB over Stafford.


Iamcanadian
04-14-2009, 07:14 PM
He says Sanchez is more accurate, has better feet and is a better leader. He gives Sanchez a much higher floor than Stafford.
Good luck Mr. Mayhew, you'll need it now.

jbombul
04-14-2009, 08:04 PM
you fail to mention the fact that mayock also state he feels all THREE qbs are legit top end qbs

Iamcanadian
04-14-2009, 08:46 PM
you fail to mention the fact that mayock also state he feels all THREE qbs are legit top end qbs

Yes, he does say that as well although I think he has reservations as well about all 3 of them. I think he is just speaking for this paticular draft and not for stronger drafts. There is no way any of the 3 are up to Ryan's standards.

P-L
04-14-2009, 08:49 PM
I think the accuracy and leadership is debatable. Sanchez had the higher completion percentage, but the USC receivers didn't drop as many balls as the Georgia receivers. Not to mention that the defenses USC played were far worse than the ones Georgia played. As far as leadership goes, Sanchez is the better vocal leader, but Stafford lets his play do the talking. Too many people make it seem like Stafford is shy, mute on the sideline, and keeps to himself. That isn't true. Just because Sanchez is a better vocal leader, doesn't mean Stafford isn't a great leader himself.

bored of education
04-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Mayock said Brian Brohm would be a franchise Qb before Matt Ryan around Senior Bowl time. Why do people care what Mayock says? I think it's interesting but its not the end all be all.....NOT EVEN CLOSE!

LookItsAlDavis
04-14-2009, 08:50 PM
I understand his thinking of Sanchez and Stafford as top-end guys, but Freeman? Really? What was his thinking on that?

bored of education
04-14-2009, 08:51 PM
Stafford with his shirt off = better leader.

LookItsAlDavis
04-14-2009, 08:53 PM
Mayock said Brian Brohm would be a franchise Qb before Matt Ryan around Senior Bowl time. Why do people care what Mayock says? I think it's interesting but its not the end all be all.....NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Because he's by far the most accurate of all the draft "experts" when it comes to predicting player success. Just look to the 06 draft when he called out the Whitner pick and the failures of Vince Young and Matt Leinart, just to name a few.

bored of education
04-14-2009, 08:55 PM
and is Whitner a stud like Laron Landry? he called the pick but Whitner hasn't shown studliness.

P-L
04-14-2009, 08:56 PM
The thing that bothers me about Mayock this year, and I've said this before, is that he's almost ignored the experience factor. Fact is that the majority of quarterbacks drafted in the 1st Round with more than 30 college starts find success in the NFL. Not all of them, but a pretty high percentage of them. However, no quarterback (at least in the last 25 years) has had success in the NFL after starting as few college games as Mark Sanchez has.

Obviously number of starts does not have an exact correlation with pro success, but those numbers I just posted are pretty damn telling.

LookItsAlDavis
04-14-2009, 08:57 PM
True that, but honestly.....how many people predicted that pick? I was using the Whitner example that he's good at mocking, and the QB's as an example of his talent-evaluation skills.

P-L
04-14-2009, 09:05 PM
Not to knock Mayock, because he was dead-on with Ryan, but predicting that Young and Leinart would struggle in the NFL is not THAT impressive. In fact, tons of people thought Vince was going to bust. He was you're classic boom/bust prospect. Hell, even Merril Hoge thought Young would be collassal bust. And while most people expected Leinart to be better at this point in his career, many were concerned about his lack of physical tools.

Iamcanadian
04-14-2009, 09:10 PM
Mayock said Brian Brohm would be a franchise Qb before Matt Ryan around Senior Bowl time. Why do people care what Mayock says? I think it's interesting but its not the end all be all.....NOT EVEN CLOSE!


The first time Mayock put out stuff on the 2008 draft, he clearly stated that Ryan should be the #1 overall pick and would turnout to be a franchise QB. He never wavered from that decision, not once.
When Cutler was at Vanderbilt, Mayock predicted hje would be a round 1 pick long before anybody ever heard of the guy and he was right there as well. His track record for QB's has been superior to most GM's and I thin k if he say Sanchez is now his #1 QB, teams will take it seriously.
Teams have had the whole post season to evaluate both Sanchez and Stafford as leaders so I take it quite seriously when Mayock says it.
No, Mayock isn't the end all or be all of scouting, Casserly, the ex GM of the Texans has been quite impressive IMO about his draft assessment on prospects as well, and together I think they present a fairly clear picture on each prospect's draft status. However, the draft was and remains a crapshoot when it comes to finding starters and talent IMO, I'd take these guys assessment on prospects over Mayhew's any day of the week.

619
04-14-2009, 09:12 PM
Mayock said Brian Brohm would be a franchise Qb before Matt Ryan around Senior Bowl time. Why do people care what Mayock says? I think it's interesting but its not the end all be all.....NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Mayock had Ryan listed as his top senior QB before the start of the season. I don't know where you got that info from.

WMD
04-14-2009, 09:39 PM
Damn. Now we're doomed, Mayock said Sanchez is better than Stafford.

619
04-14-2009, 09:43 PM
Damn. Now we're doomed, Mayock said Sanchez is better than Stafford.

Don't take it that way. Both tremendous talents, he and a few others out there just happen to like him a bit more. It's not a knock against Stafford.

Iamcanadian
04-14-2009, 11:14 PM
It is going to be quite interesting to see which one Mayhew drafts, it's not like he has some track record for making the right decisions nor a scouting department that has the skill to help him decide. He is still going to workout Sanchez this week I believe, so just maybe, the decision hasn't been made yet.

Geason Noceur
04-15-2009, 12:40 AM
I'm not putting too much stock, if any, on Mayock's QB rankings lately since everytime time he talks about the QBs he contradicts himself.

This is what he said about Sanchez a few weeks ago when he had only watched film: “My concern with the underclassmen this year with Sanchez in particular was 16 starts,” said Mayock... My problem with he and Stafford is I don’t think they’ll be ready in the immediate future,” Mayock continued. ”I think 13 or 14 more starts would have helped Mark become a better quarterback. His pocket awareness and presence, that I would question for him and Stafford."

He has been beating the drum that he doesn't think Sanchez and Stafford are in the same league as Ryan or Flacco because according to him they don't have the enough experience (yet Stafford started more games than Ryan did). A few weeks ago he questioned Sanchez pocket awareness and presence, and now he doesn't. It seems to me that Mayock puts more stock on private workouts than on film. Now he puts the least experienced QB at the top of his board and expects us to buy it? I don't think so. At least not with me.

Another thing that I'd like to know is how does someone measure leadership? How does Mayock conclude that Sanchez is a better leader? Because he's a rah rah guy on the sidelines and other QBs are not? I think Mayock is way off on this one too.

WMD
04-15-2009, 02:35 AM
Don't take it that way. Both tremendous talents, he and a few others out there just happen to like him a bit more. It's not a knock against Stafford.
I was just being sarcastic there. Just because Mayock said it doesn't mean it's automatic. He's been right in the past, but that doesn't mean he can't be wrong.

5 Fingers of Death
04-15-2009, 03:19 AM
How may QBs can do what Stafford did at 9:00?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm5j2x2gT7s

Against Georgia Tech, Stafford threw 5 touchdowns and only 1 INT. 407 yards. That is outstanding.

If you could take Stafford and make him a USC Trojan, he would have a better more experienced offensive line blocking for him. Have equally just as good or better wide receivers. Have the best defense in the nation just killing the opponents offenses. Stafford would be hands down the best quarterback in college football with USC talent around him on the playing field.

If you put Mark Sanchez on Georgia's team and have him run for his life the way Stafford did, i don't think he would succeed as well. Much of the time Sanchez had the lead in most of the games he played because USC talent was so dominating. Georgia was a very good team but their offensive line (LT) experienced many injuries. The SEC has the best talent in college football hands down. Look at some of the defensive players Stafford had to face in college:

1. Peria Jerry
2. Tyson Jackson
3. Robert Ayers
4. Michael Johnson

All these players could go in the first round of the draft. These guys were killing Stafford's offensive line and sacking him left and right. What great defensive player was going up against Sanchez offensive line? Nick Reed? What defensive tackle is going to be drafted in the first round from the PAC 10. Any defensive ends come to your mind who's all american coming from the PAC 10? No defensive player in the PAC 10 is projected to go in the first round except for Sanchez's teammates: Rey, Cushing, and Matthews.

Give me Stafford every single time. I'm not say Sanchez is a bad player. He will probably turn out to be a very good player but give me Stafford every single time.

Again:
1. Stafford 3 yrs of experience over 1 year of experience for Sanchez.
- If you we're going to give 35 million dollar contract to someone, who
would you give to? Someone with 3 yrs of playtime vs. 1 year?
2. Stafford has just as good of numbers against better defenses
3. Stafford has very young O line blocking for him.
4. Stafford has the better arm and just as equal mental and leadership qualities
5. Stafford has never gotten into any trouble like the accusation of sexual assault Sanchez had.

Remember USC is a NFL football factory. USC QBs are more hype. The SEC quarterbacks like Eli, Peyton, Jay, and Matt Stafford are the real deals. Feel good all Lions fans, you'll be getting the better QB in this draft. Mark my words.

Mayock had Stafford his #1 QB till now and he suddenly changes his mind for no particular reason. Did Stafford run a slow 40 or fail a drug test or look overweight? Mayock changes his mind left and right. If there was a legit reason he would rank Sanchez over Stafford, then fine. But he's going with what his college, Charles Davis, feels instead of sticking to his guns like Scott Wright and Mel Kiper have with Stafford.

Mayock says Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft. I say Michael Johnson will be.

If Sanchez was so good he would be going #1 to the Detroit Lions. It's basic logic.

5 Fingers of Death
04-15-2009, 03:29 AM
There are 2 things that stick in my mind about Stafford.

First thing, Kiper. While he's no god at mocking draft prospects, you can't deny he has had experience with this. You can see how passionate he is about talking NFL draft. What sticks in my mind about Stafford is Kiper saying Matt would be the #1 pick in the NFL draft after Kiper saw him play in high school. High School! The fact it's going to come true indicates what great of a talent Stafford is. How may times do you see a player with so much hype fails more than succeeds.

#2. Bobby Layne. It is eerie.

BcLion
04-15-2009, 07:21 AM
I think the Lions should use all this predraft hype on sanchez to lower staffords asking price. If I were GM I would be telling both agents I am 50/50 and whoever comes the cheapest gets the nod. Plus I would throw in curry and maybe smith as bait for lowering the cost as well. Let the games begin and the more confusion over who is the hands down best #1 pick the better for our purposes.

georgiafan
04-15-2009, 07:24 AM
You have to look at who is the better fit for the lions and to team with your best player CJ. Stafford's skills are better suited to team with CJ and you can easily build your offense around those two. I'm not as sure if you can build your offense around Sanchez as you can with Stafford. Just look at the chemistry Stafford was able to build with A.J Green who is a somewhat similar WR to CJ. In just months A.J lead the SEC in receiving as true freshman. That doesn't happen with any other QB in the SEC (maybe even the country) if Stafford isn't the QB. If Stafford can develop that quickly with A.J in just months with limited practice time. Think of what he can do with CJ over the next few years with unlimited practice time.

weasel
04-15-2009, 07:26 AM
and that is not far at all. You are here in this forum for one reason and that is because Draftcountdown offers something that brought you here. That is content and the guy running this site has been far more accurate than Mayock. I'll go with Scott's assessment of these two before Mayock's frantic effort to make copy for his employers. The only guy who has nothing to lose by supporting one over the other. No QB has succeeded in Detroit for over fifty years. By selecting Sanchez who is a great bet to not go to the Lions mayock can cite Sanchez's success with a better team or deride the Detroit front office for ruining his career if they choose Sanchez. Mayock has nothing to lose. Scott Wright does it here, always free and a great source for all your draft data. Mayock is horrible.

georgiafan
04-15-2009, 11:19 AM
http://georgia.scout.com/2/856416.html
A excellent read about stafford (long)

I assume it's ok to post the link since it's not from a draft site

Babylon
04-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Because he's by far the most accurate of all the draft "experts" when it comes to predicting player success. Just look to the 06 draft when he called out the Whitner pick and the failures of Vince Young and Matt Leinart, just to name a few.

I'll take Mel.

MagicStick20
04-15-2009, 11:45 AM
i would be happier with Sanchez then Stafford, but either way i feel bad for both of them, because the lions o line is so bad either one of them would have a hard time doing well

georgiafan
04-15-2009, 11:52 AM
i would be happier with Sanchez then Stafford, but either way i feel bad for both of them, because the lions o line is so bad either one of them would have a hard time doing well

As many people have said the lions have plenty of draft picks this year and next year to find a LT and a OG.

MagicStick20
04-15-2009, 11:58 AM
i know that the lions have many picks, but in the years past the lions havent done **** with thoes draft picks in trems of picking up linemen. they are good at getting wr, hopfully they will be alittle smarter this year

tblain1
04-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Mayock says Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft. I say Michael Johnson will be.


COUGH!!! COUGHHHHHH!!!

I'm with Mel Kiper on this one. Michael Johnson is all combine and no football. Some team will fall in love with his work out numbers and fall out of love after he disappoints year after year.

Addict
04-16-2009, 11:54 AM
and that is not far at all. You are here in this forum for one reason and that is because Draftcountdown offers something that brought you here. That is content and the guy running this site has been far more accurate than Mayock. I'll go with Scott's assessment of these two before Mayock's frantic effort to make copy for his employers. The only guy who has nothing to lose by supporting one over the other. No QB has succeeded in Detroit for over fifty years. By selecting Sanchez who is a great bet to not go to the Lions mayock can cite Sanchez's success with a better team or deride the Detroit front office for ruining his career if they choose Sanchez. Mayock has nothing to lose. Scott Wright does it here, always free and a great source for all your draft data. Mayock is horrible.

I believe Mayock has been a slight bit more accurate than Scott. Also, you seem to mistake ranking with draft position. Mayock never said Sanchez will go #1, he just said he feels he's the better QB. I agree with you that Mayock's opinion is just Mayock's opinion, and he seems to be different this year (he seems to be hyping more, maybe it's just presentation, I don't really know).

But I do respect Mayock's opinion. I don't really think he believes Sanchez will go ahead of Stafford. But in all honesty, Mayock is not horrible. So far, Mayhew has done a decent job as our GM, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and trust he makes the best decision regarding our #1.

weasel
04-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Scott Wright says that Stafford is rated higher. No question mark about that and he is the reason I am on this site. Mayock is like a little kid hanging around his older brother and sticking his chin out and making statements so somebody will pay him attention. Go away little boy(Mayock).

Kid_Ego
04-16-2009, 01:57 PM
I have Mel Kipers draft bible he says sanchez is better now. that the one year wonder the history of usc qbs is what causes hesitation. IN My opinion the Lions should build the team take a guy like the kid from texas A&M and let the vetern start. If they do things the right way they could come out of this with 2 good defensive players Laurinitius and Jackson and a stud ol Smith. you factor in Peterson sims and redding and you suddenly have a quality d or atleast a promising one.
Then you have to similar qbs with similar playing styles if they dont work you still have the chance of getting a trus stud next year like McCoy or Bradford. to me If the lions take Stafford they are reverting back to the lions typical knee jerk ways.

Kid_Ego
04-16-2009, 01:59 PM
And I wouldnt call the lions good at getting WR's I would how ever suggest they are very good at drafting the wrong receivers. Rogers Williams and Williams? None of those guys were good.

woodnick
04-16-2009, 02:29 PM
I have Mel Kipers draft bible he says sanchez is better now. that the one year wonder the history of usc qbs is what causes hesitation. IN My opinion the Lions should build the team take a guy like the kid from texas A&M and let the vetern start. If they do things the right way they could come out of this with 2 good defensive players Laurinitius and Jackson and a stud ol Smith. you factor in Peterson sims and redding and you suddenly have a quality d or atleast a promising one.
Then you have to similar qbs with similar playing styles if they dont work you still have the chance of getting a trus stud next year like McCoy or Bradford. to me If the lions take Stafford they are reverting back to the lions typical knee jerk ways.

Hard to factor in Redding when he plays in Seattle, and not to be mean but who the F*** would want Tyson Jackson at 20? The dude, IMO, is a 3-4 run-stopping DE. He wouldn't do tiddly winks for us in MoTown. I understadn your arguments on the other guys, especially on passing on a QB this yr, but I personally hate Jackson for us and I think that you should move on to a guy that might have a chance to suceed for us.

WMD
04-16-2009, 03:38 PM
I'd take Tyson Jackson at #20. He's got great size, which Schwartz & Co. seem to covet. He may not be the best pass rusher in the world, but he'd be great against the run.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-16-2009, 04:12 PM
Jackson would be ok at 20. We do need a run stopping DE with some pass rush skills. White and Avril are too small to man that base Defensive End side in Schwartz's scheme. Jackson would replace DeVries since Ikaika couldn't do it and I don't think Fluellen will swithc permantly to base D-End.

woodnick
04-16-2009, 05:03 PM
I respectfully disagree that the Lions should take Jackson at 20. The guy is 6'4" and 296 lbs. He had 4 and 4.5 sacks the past 2 yrs, which doesn't show great pass-rushing skills. Yes he would be very stout against the run, but IMO, in all likelihood of we drafted him he would convert to an UT. So to me the question would then become Jackson or a guy like Hood or Jerry at UT? To me that's an easy answer.

If he would stay at DE for us, he would likely become a one dimensional run-stopping DE, which I would rather grab in the 6th round or later. Run stopping DEs are usually easy to find, what are difficult are those pass-rushering DEs so why not draft a guy that has pass-rushing potential like an Ayers, Brown, English, or even Sidbury.

I know that workout #s aren't the end-all be-all, but his #s are terrible for a DE: 20 reps in the bench, 4.94 40(1.68 10yrd split), 28.6" vert., 4.8 short shuttle, and 8.5 sacks in 27 games(.3148/game) & 17.5 TFL

compare that to:

Ayers - 18 reps, 4.77 40 (1.62 10/split), 29.6" vert., 4.51 short shuttle, and 7 sacks in 26 games (.269/game) & 27.5 TFL

Brown - 26 reps, 4.65 40 (1.59 10/split), 31.6" vert, 4.53 shuttle, and 20 sacks in 26 games (.769/game) & 33 TFL

English - 24 reps, 4.82 40 (1.61 10/split), 36" vert., 4.38 shuttle, and 18.5 sacks in 25 games (.74/game) & 33 TFL

Sidbury - 28 reps, 4.53 40 (1.53 10/split), 35" vert., 4.43 shuttle, and 16 sacks in 29 games (.55/game) & 28 TFL

Now with these comparisons I know that the other guys should have an advantage because of their athleticism, but Jackson only put up 20 reps on the bench, so that alarms me, his 10 yard split was pretty slow, his jumps were kind of bad. All in all the measurables make we question his ability to ability to be a game changer. His TFLs were very disturbing because as a DE his size he should have been able to at least get a push on the OTs and get TFLs. If all of Jackson's #s were like his sophomore year than I'd say jump on him, but thats 2 yrs ago and seems like more of an aboration of his skills compared to the norm.

SINCE1978
04-16-2009, 07:53 PM
There are 2 things that stick in my mind about Stafford.

First thing, Kiper. While he's no god at mocking draft prospects, you can't deny he has had experience with this. You can see how passionate he is about talking NFL draft. What sticks in my mind about Stafford is Kiper saying Matt would be the #1 pick in the NFL draft after Kiper saw him play in high school. High School! The fact it's going to come true indicates what great of a talent Stafford is. How may times do you see a player with so much hype fails more than succeeds.

#2. Bobby Layne. It is eerie.

Rumors have swirled that Mr Kiper is family friends with the Stafford clan in Texas so of course he is on his band wagon since HS... he wants the kid to prosper for personal reasons, not just professional. Even Kiper said today if the Lion's are not 100% on board with Stafford by now, don't take him. You have to be 100% sold on him (paraphrased).

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Rumors have swirled that Mr Kiper is family friends with the Stafford clan in Texas so of course he is on his band wagon since HS... he wants the kid to prosper for personal reasons, not just professional. Even Kiper said today if the Lion's are not 100% on board with Stafford by now, don't take him. You have to be 100% sold on him (paraphrased).

Just heard Stafford on Path to the Draft. His agent hasn't talked with the Lions about a contract yet. But its early. I think Scwartz said they were making decision this week. So we'll see.

Oh and Mayock was all over Matt Ryan because they both went to BC. Hmmmm no wonder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mayock

WMD
04-16-2009, 11:13 PM
I'd be interested to see if anyone else says they've talked to the Lions about a contract. Seems like we would've had something in the works..

Assume it's just a smokescreen.. Lions try to keep everything under wraps, so if he is the pick, Mayhew could've told him to just downplay everything. Stafford doesn't really have anything to gain by saying we are working on a contract.

Addict
04-17-2009, 10:18 AM
I'd be interested to see if anyone else says they've talked to the Lions about a contract. Seems like we would've had something in the works..

Assume it's just a smokescreen.. Lions try to keep everything under wraps, so if he is the pick, Mayhew could've told him to just downplay everything. Stafford doesn't really have anything to gain by saying we are working on a contract.

at this point I just hope the Lions take him, sit him and build. It'd be the right thing to do, the smart thing to do. Really 40 million is a whole lot of money, but I'd rather spend it on a QB than anywhere else.

Also, I don't really understand the argument for an LT/Bradford (or other top QB) next year. I understand not liking Stafford, but top rookie LT's can play and play well, while rookie QB's generally don't (and Stafford isn't a Matt Ryan-ready NFL QB) so let's just get it over with and draft Stafford, sit him a year, draft an LT high next year and we're good to go (at least on the QB-LT-WR front) assuming of course that Cherilus doesn't bust at RT. If we were to do it the other way around and go LT now and QB next year then we'll be stuck sitting that QB another year, making the process of waiting for some kind of result even longer.

Saints-Tigers
04-17-2009, 03:45 PM
I think both are bogus, Sanchez wouldn't complete 55% in the SEC.

Sanchez is the most forced "vocal leader" I've seen in a long time, he tries to hard to stick out.

SINCE1978
04-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Just heard Stafford on Path to the Draft. His agent hasn't talked with the Lions about a contract yet. But its early. I think Scwartz said they were making decision this week. So we'll see.

Oh and Mayock was all over Matt Ryan because they both went to BC. Hmmmm no wonder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mayock

Well lets hope for our teams sake Kiper is correct in his praise for Stafford as Mayock was corect in his, for Ryan.

Addict
04-18-2009, 06:28 AM
Well lets hope for our teams sake Kiper is correct in his praise for Stafford as Mayock was corect in his, for Ryan.

Exactly. But ultimately, let's not dwell on the so-called experts and draftniks, but let's just hope the Lions' scouts did their due dilligence, let's hope Mayhew isn't another Millen and let's hope that we have stopped sucking at drafting players.

Kiper and Mayock are good, but quite frankly I'd rather trust the guys who actaully work for the NFL teams.

(also: remember what Kiper said about BMW?)

MelKiperEraSurvivor
04-18-2009, 06:34 AM
Merrill Hodge also said the same thing about Leinart/Young.