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boknows34
04-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Who would you consider the best players ever drafted by their respective draft position 1 through 32.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f92ef0&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Some of them pick themselves like Jerry Rice as the best 16th overall pick ever and Dan Marino at 27. Others are much closer. Which picks do you disagree with?



1. John Elway - 1983
Also receiving votes: Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts, 1998; Bruce Smith, Buffalo Bills, 1985; Earl Campbell, Houston Oilers, 1978; Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers, 1970; Chuck Bednarik, Philadelphia Eagles, 1949.

2. Lawrence Taylor - 1982
Also receiving votes: Marshall Faulk, Indianapolis Colts, 1994; Eric Dickerson, Los Angeles Rams, 1983; Randy White, Dallas Cowboys, 1975.

3. Barry Sanders - 1989
Also receiving votes: Anthony Munoz, Cincinnati Bengals, 1980; "Mean" Joe Greene, Pittsburgh Steelers, 1969; Dick Butkus, Chicago Bears, 1965.

4. Walter Payton - 1975
Also receiving votes: Gale Sayers, Chicago Bears, 1965; Otto Graham, Detroit Lions, 1944.

5. Deion Sanders - 1989
Also receiving votes: LaDainian Tomlinson, San Diego Chargers, 2001; Junior Seau, San Diego Chargers, 1990; Mike Haynes, New England Patriots, 1976; Joe Namath, New York Jets, 1965; Mike Ditka, Chicago Bears, 1961; Steve Van Buren, Philadelphia Eagles, 1944.

6. Jim Brown - 1957
Also receiving votes: Sammy Baugh, Washington Redskins, 1937.

7. Clyde 'Bulldog' Turner - 1940
Also receiving votes: Adrian Peterson, Minnesota Vikings, 2007; Champ Bailey, Washington Redskins, 1999; Phil Simms, New York Giants, 1979.

8. Ronnie Lott - 1981
Also receiving votes: Jim Parker, Baltimore Colts, 1957.

9. Bruce Matthews - 1983
Also receiving votes: Lance Alworth, Oakland Raiders, 1962; Lenny Moore, Baltimore Colts, 1956.

10. Rod Woodson - 1987
Also receiving votes: Marcus Allen, Los Angeles Raiders, 1982.

11. Paul Warfield - 1964
Also receiving votes: Michael Irvin, Dallas Cowboys, 1988; Doug Atkins, Cleveland Browns, 1953; Frank Gifford, New York Giants, 1952.

12. Herb Adderley - 1961
Also receiving votes: Warren Sapp, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1995; Clay Matthews, Cleveland Browns, 1978; Chuck Foreman, Minnesota Vikings, 1973.

13. Kellen Winslow - 1979
Also receiving votes: Tony Gonzalez, Kansas City Chiefs, 1997; Franco Harris, Pittsburgh Steelers, 1972; Bob Lilly, Dallas Cowboys, 1961.

14. Jim Kelly - 1983
Also receiving votes: Mike Curtis, Baltimore Colts, 1965; Gino Marchetti, Detroit Lions, 1952.

15. Alan Page - 1967
Also receiving votes: Albert Haynesworth, Tennessee Titans, 2002; Jim Taylor, Green Bay Packers, 1958.

16. Jerry Rice - 1985
Also receiving votes: None.

17. Emmitt Smith - 1990
Also receiving votes: Gene Upshaw, Oakland Raiders, 1967; Mel Renfro, Dallas Cowboys, 1964.

18. Art Monk - 1980
Also receiving votes: Paul Krause, Washington Redskins, 1964; John Henry Johnson, Pittsburgh Steelers, 1953; Alphonse "Tuffy" Leemans, New York Giants, 1936.

19. John Mackey - 1963
Also receiving votes: Marvin Harrison, Indianapolis Colts, 1996; Randall McDaniel, Minnesota Vikings, 1988; Jack Tatum, Oakland Raiders, 1971.

20. Forrest Gregg - 1956
Also receiving votes: Steve Atwater, Denver Broncos, 1989; Jack Youngblood, Los Angeles Rams, 1971.

21. Randy Moss - 1998
Also receiving votes: Lynn Swann, Pittsburgh Steelers, 1974.

22. Ernie Stautmer - 1950
Also receiving votes: Andre Rison, Indianapolis Colts, 1989; Jack "Hacksaw" Reynolds, LB, Los Angeles Rams, 1970.

23. Ozzie Newsome - 1978
Also receiving votes: Bruce Armstrong, New England Patriots, 1987; Ray Guy, Oakland Raiders, 1973.

24. Ed Reed - 2002
Also receiving votes: Steven Jackson, St. Louis Rams, 2004; Raymond Chester, Oakland Raiders, 1970; Calvin Hill, Dallas Cowboys, 1969.

25. Ted Washington - 1991
Also receiving votes: Santonio Holmes, Pittsburgh Steelers, 2006; Stanley Morgan, New England Patriots, 1977; Boyd Dowler, Green Bay Packers, 1959.

26. Ray Lewis - 1996
Also receiving votes: None.

27. Dan Marino - 1983
Also receiving votes: None.

28. Darrell Green - 1983
Also receiving votes: Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1995.

29. Fran Tarkenton - 1961
Also receiving votes: Dave Wilcox, San Francisco 49ers, 1964.

30. Sam Huff - 1956
Also receiving votes: Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis Colts, 2001.

31. Jimmy Johnson - 1961
Also receiving votes: Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders, 2003; Bill Bergey, Cincinnati Bengals, 1969; Tommy McDonald, Philadelphia Eagles, 1957; Rosey Grier, New York Giants, 1955.

32. Drew Brees - 2001
Also receiving votes: Don Meredith, Chicago Bears, 1960; Bob St. Clair, San Francisco 49ers, 1953.

Some observations:

Ted Washington has to be the weakest selection here at #25. The 24th and 25th overall picks have never produced a Hall of Famer though Ed Reed will someday change that. The 4th overall pick is extremely strong with Jon Ogden and John Hannah both being considered but polling no votes. Walter Payton was selected here ahead of Gale Sayers and Otto Graham. Barry Sanders had to beat out Dick Butkus, Anthony Munoz and Mean Joe Greene to win the vote at #3. All 4 of those guys are Top 15-20 players ever imo.

The great 1983 draft produced 5 picks as the greatest ever at their respective draft slot. 1961 produced three players while 1989 gave us the best #3 and #5 overall picks of all-time with the Sanders boys. 1989 may have had the best Top 5 ever with Derrick Thomas and Troy Aikman also getting consideration at #4 and #1.

GB12
04-17-2009, 03:36 PM
How the hell did Terry Bradshaw get a vote?

terribletowel39
04-17-2009, 03:43 PM
I think Michael Irvin and Tony G should have taken the best ever at their respective spots. Other than that, not much wrong with the winners.

the decider13
04-17-2009, 04:30 PM
I agree with Winslow over Tony G, and they should have Marchetti over Jim Kelly.

Other than that, not much to argue about.

BuddyCHRIST
04-17-2009, 04:47 PM
Not much to argue about, I'd probably go with Champ Bailey over Turner at pick 7. Partly because I don't know who that is, and I think Champ is one of the top 3 corners ever. I'd probably go with Derrick Brooks over Darrel Green too, mainly because I'm a homer.

Splat
04-17-2009, 05:04 PM
LOL @ Kellen Winslow over Tony Gonzalez.

BrownsTown
04-17-2009, 05:38 PM
LOL @ Kellen Winslow over Tony Gonzalez.

It's not that big of a stretch...

I think Peyton will be at the top of that #1 pick list sooner or later.

keylime_5
04-17-2009, 05:45 PM
Winslow changed the tight end position in a way, he makes sense at 13 to me. Depends on if you're an old school or new school kinda guy. The game changed a lot since the 1980s, today's passing/receiving stats aren't really comparable to back then.

Splat
04-17-2009, 05:46 PM
LOL @ Kellen Winslow over Tony Gonzalez.

It's not that big of a stretch...


http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenwinslow/careerstats?id=WIN521505

http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/careerstats?id=GON587645

Tony has 375 more catches 4199 more yards and 31 more TD's.

Splat
04-17-2009, 05:51 PM
Winslow changed the tight end position in a way, he makes sense at 13 to me.

You could say the same thing about Tony he really put TE's on the map he did for TE's what LT did for LB's everyone said we have got to get a guy like that.

ironman4579
04-17-2009, 06:38 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenwinslow/careerstats?id=WIN521505

http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/careerstats?id=GON587645

Tony has 375 more catches 4199 more yards and 31 more TD's.

Winslow only played 109 games to Tony's 190 as well. Per game averages are:

Gonzalez
4.8 catches per game, 57.6 yards per game, 11.9 yards per catch, 0.4 TD's per game


Winslow
5 catches per game, 61.8 yards per game, 12.5 yards per catch, 0.4 TD's per game

Splat
04-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Winslow only played 109 games to Tony's 190 as well. Per game averages are:

Gonzalez
4.8 catches per game, 57.6 yards per game, 11.9 yards per catch, 0.4 TD's per game


Winslow
5 catches per game, 61.8 yards per game, 12.5 yards per catch, 0.4 TD's per game


Which helps Tony's case even more he only missed two games in 12 seasons.

ironman4579
04-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Which helps Tony's case even more he only missed two games in 12 seasons.

I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying using counting stats to compare players when one has played 81 more games isn't the best way to make a case.

mqtirishfan
04-17-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying using counting stats to compare players when one has played 81 more games isn't the best way to make a case.

Except for that whole fact that longevity counts, so the total stats should as well.

AJHawk50
04-17-2009, 09:46 PM
Tony Gonzalez is a beast and a respectable leader. I don't think you can say the same about Winslow.

Saints-Tigers
04-17-2009, 10:26 PM
I'd take Manning over Elway without a second thought.

ironman4579
04-17-2009, 11:00 PM
Except for that whole fact that longevity counts, so the total stats should as well.

Sure it does. But as an example, say one guy played 5 seasons longer than another guy. The player with the shorter career was great every season he played. The guy with the longer career was great up until those last 5 seasons, when he was garbage and just couldn't give up the game. Now because of those last 5 seasons he ended up with higher counting stats. Would that make him a better player? I really don't think so.

And let me point out right now that I'm not saying this is the case with Winslow and Gonzalez. It's just an example of how counting stats can be skewed.

boknows34
04-21-2009, 09:59 AM
Forum posters on nfl.com need to learn to actually read the article before making themselves look dumb. eg) asking why Rice and Marino only went 16th and 27th and complaining Favre and Brady are not in the Top 32.

jth1331
04-21-2009, 10:08 AM
I'd take Manning over Elway without a second thought.

How many Super Bowls has Manning taken the Colts to again?
At this age, Elway had been to 3 already with nothing on offense around him.

Oh, and Gonzalez didn't really put TE's on the map. Winslow, Newsome and Sharpe did that IMO.

MetSox17
04-21-2009, 11:09 AM
How many Super Bowls has Manning taken the Colts to again?
At this age, Elway had been to 3 already with nothing on offense around him.

Oh, and Gonzalez didn't really put TE's on the map. Winslow, Newsome and Sharpe did that IMO.

Peyton Manning has never had a defense. That argument can work both ways.

awfullyquiet
04-21-2009, 12:08 PM
ray guy.

nuff said.

someone447
04-21-2009, 09:44 PM
Tony Gonzalez is a beast and a respectable leader. I don't think you can say the same about Winslow.

You do realize this is the older Kellen Winslow, right?
http://a.espncdn.com/i/page2/photos/040624winslow.jpg

He was definitely a leader. He lost 10+ lbs that game and still blocked the kick to win the game.

PACKmanN
04-21-2009, 09:55 PM
Tony Gonzalez is a beast and a respectable leader. I don't think you can say the same about Winslow.

oh yeah, Winslow is a f***** solider, bet you can't say the same about Gonzo.

jth1331
04-22-2009, 12:47 AM
Wait, people actually thought that was the now Kellen Winslow and not the old Charger great?

niel89
04-22-2009, 01:02 AM
Wait, people actually thought that was the now Kellen Winslow and not the old Charger great?

Tony G Vs. Kellen Winslow Sr. is a good debate. vs Kellen Winslow Jr its no debate. Winslow Jr is a great player but Tony G also is great and has a strong body of work to reference.

ironman4579
04-22-2009, 06:19 AM
Wait, people actually thought that was the now Kellen Winslow and not the old Charger great?

I'm really hoping the answer is no, otherwise what are they doing on a football forum?

Brent
04-22-2009, 10:52 AM
32. Drew Brees - 2001
Also receiving votes: Don Meredith, Chicago Bears, 1960; Bob St. Clair, San Francisco 49ers, 1953.
Seriously? Don Meredith was selected by the Cowboys.

boknows34
04-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Seriously? Don Meredith was selected by the Cowboys.


Meredith was drafted by Chicago just like Eli Manning was drafted by San Diego. He was then traded to Dallas for future draft picks though I'm not sure if it was on the day of the draft like the Manning/Rivers deal or if it was before the start of preseason.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MereDo00.htm

Brent
04-22-2009, 08:47 PM
Meredith was drafted by Chicago just like Eli Manning was drafted by San Diego. He was then traded to Dallas for future draft picks though I'm not sure if it was on the day of the draft like the Manning/Rivers deal or if it was before the start of preseason.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MereDo00.htm
In the words of Terrance, "well, **** my ass and call me a *****." I was wrong. I was not aware.