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Highagain
04-19-2009, 10:35 AM
Who do you think the top 3-4 OLB in this draft is?

I think it's Aaron Maybin.

People constantly question his size. At his previous weight of 227 pounds, those concerns were very valid. However, he is 252 pounds now which is big enough for a 3-4 weakside linebacker. Further, his body has responded very well to the added weight as evidenced by his pro day workout. Look for him to continue to add weight and strength as he's still only 21 years old and is still far from his plateau.

http://i40.tinypic.com/18p2xx.jpg

Maybin is just raw. He's an athlete that just went out and dominated on the basis of his physical gifts. He won't be nearly as effective in the NFL unless he refines his technique because blockers are much better athletes in the pros. He's a hard worker and as he develops his technique his pass rush will become more and more deadly. I'm personally very high on Maybin and I think he's the #1 3-4 OLB player.

Malaka
04-19-2009, 10:45 AM
I feel Everette Brown doesn't have as much upside as the others, but I feel he will be the most consistent and best NFL player out of the bunch, and he is a perfect fit for 3-4 OLB.

RaiderNation
04-19-2009, 11:11 AM
Maybin is just too athletic to not be atleast decent at 3-4OLB

Burns336
04-19-2009, 11:13 AM
I picked Michael Johnson before the CFB season started and I'm sticking with it. Georgia Tech HOMERISM!!!

BuddyCHRIST
04-19-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm an Everette Brown homer, but I'm going to be honest and say that Orakpo is my favorite. I'm not a fan of Maybin at all, his best move is just running around guys and I'm not sure if he's quite that fast for that to be effective in the NFL. Gaining 30 lbs in 2 months in that picture is really worrisome, if it was that easy to put on weight (which is shouldn't be at all for a guy whose been playing football this long) then why didn't he have it on earlier? His base is too skinny for me.

etk
04-19-2009, 11:21 AM
Brown is the best pass rusher of the bunch, but Orakpo is better suited for a 3-4 as he's the most fluid athlete.

Matthew Jones
04-19-2009, 11:21 AM
It depends on what you want out of your outside linebackers. The thing with Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown is they have great first steps to rush the passer, but compared to Brian Orakpo or Larry English, they don't really set the corner. Maybin or Everette could be the top 3-4 OLB in time, but right now I'd probably go with Orakpo as he's more complete.

the decider13
04-19-2009, 11:21 AM
For me it's Maybin, but Everette Brown is a close 2nd.

Babylon
04-19-2009, 11:57 AM
Where's the other choice because Connor Barwin should at least be on the list. Shameful.

Rjspartan
04-19-2009, 12:16 PM
orakpo is going to fit best in a 4-3

Babylon
04-19-2009, 12:19 PM
orakpo is going to fit best in a 4-3

Agree. Also question whether English, Ayers and Johnson will be 3-4 OLBs either.

PACKmanN
04-19-2009, 12:33 PM
1. Brown
2. English
3. Maybin
4. Orakpo
5. Ayers
6. Johnson

AntoinCD
04-19-2009, 12:49 PM
I went with Maybin simply because he probably has the best athletic potential to do everything an OLB needs. He has the first step to rush the passer and the athletic ability to drop into coverage on occassions when asked. It depends on which system he goes to though. If he is asked to rush the passer on 95% of passing plays he will be fine from the get go, however if he is asked to sit in a zone he may struggle to begin with. His major problem to me will be in the run game and setting the edge, even against tight ends at the minute. I know he has put on extra weight but it still needs to be seen if he can be a better run defender.
Although when it's all said and done I see him being the best of the bunch here, maybe not Demarcus Ware but definitely like Lamarr Woodley

phlysac
04-19-2009, 12:51 PM
I feel that Orakpo, Ayers and Johnson fit best in a typical 4-3

I feel that Everette Brown fits best as a Tampa-2 style DE.

With what's left...

1. Aaron Maybin
2. Larry English
3. Connor Barwin
4. Lawrence Sidbury

I also think that all 8 players will be taken in the top-50 perhaps sooner.

eaglesalltheway
04-19-2009, 12:53 PM
I voted Everette Brown. People already know my feelings on Maybin, and I think Orakpo is best sutied as a RE in the 4-3. And Ayers is best suited as a LE in the 4-3. I don't think Ayers will be a OLB in the NFL, I am almost certain a 4-3 team will draft him, and he will be best suited as a LE. I don't really like Ayers no matter where he goes though.

gogobroncos
04-19-2009, 12:54 PM
I really like English as a "Woodley" type in a 3-4 defense but it's hard to argue that Maybin & Brown wouldn't be devistating in that same role.

For what it's worth, I think Maybin and Orakpo could probably survive in either system but English & Brown really fit the 3-4.

phlysac
04-19-2009, 01:03 PM
The interesting thing regarding Maybin is that all of his negatives (outside of experience) were said of Demarcus Ware. He was only recruited by 3 schools out of high school. He was a 195lb WR. Many thought that Ware was a reach at #11. Many thought he relied solely on his speed. He gained 20lbs (230-250) between his final game and the Combine.

On paper, they're nearly identical. Pre-draft numbers for both...

Ware.................... Maybin
6'4" 251lbs............ 6'4" 252lbs
4.56 40................ 4.59 40
38.5" Vert..............40.0" Vert
10'7" Broad........... 10'10" Broad

Malaka
04-19-2009, 01:07 PM
This is how I feel about where players fit...

I feel Orakpo is best suited for RE in a 4-3 similar to John Abraham, I feel he can be a very good defensive end in the league, I honestly do not like him too much as a 3-4 OLB, I seriously doubt his pass coverage skills.

Aaron Maybin I feel has the potential to be an elite 3-4 OLB, I think he will bust in a 4-3, and I do have some concerns whether or not he will reach that potential in a 3-4.

I already stated how I feel about Everette Brown in this thread, I feel he is the safest bet to be a pro bowler, as 3-4 OLB, I think he can extremely successful in a Tampa 2 as well, but I feel he will bust in a regular 4-3, unless he is in a situational pass rusher role.

I feel Larry English has the size to be a great 4-3 LE in the mold of Osi Umenyiora, but I feel he can also be an excellent 3-4 OLB like Lamarr Woodley on the Steelers, though I doubt his ability to cover, I feel he is a great run stopper and pass rusher.

I do not understand the Robert Ayers love, 7 sacks in 4 seasons? Fine he has good measurables and good TFL numbers last year, but he wasn't very productive and is only 6'2, I feel he is a decent 2nd round prospect but I have no idea why some scouts are so high on him, as we saw with Scott Wright saying he is a possible target at 11. for the Bills. I see him as a starting 4-3 DE somewhere in the league, and a back-up 3-4 OLB.

Michael Johnson, soooo much potential there, I feel he can play 3-4 OLB. I have no idea why some people say he is too tall for that position, he is 6'7, and Mathias Kiwanuka played just fine at around 6'5/6'6 in 4-3 at SAM, the Panthers occasionally have Julius Peppers drop into coverage from DE and he is 6'7, I feel he would actually be a better fit as 3-4 OLB, than 4-3 DE where his runstopping weakness would be shown a lot more than in a 3-4. He has the potential to be an All-Pro, player I am rooting for him, but he just lacks that non-stop motor.

My rankings 3-4 OLB rankings.

1. Everette Brown
(Connor Barwin)
2. Aaron Maybin
3. Orakpo
4. English
5. Michael Johnson
6. Robert Ayers

princefielder28
04-19-2009, 01:19 PM
1. Larry English
2. Brian Orakpo
3. Aaron Maybin
4. Everette Brown
5. Robert Ayers
6. Michael Johnson

TACKLE
04-19-2009, 01:30 PM
On paper, they're nearly identical. Pre-draft numbers for both...

Ware.................... Maybin
6'4" 251lbs............ 6'4" 252lbs
4.56 40................ 4.59 40 - He ran a 4.88 at the combine and no way he improved by 0.3 by his proday. I give him the benefit of the doubt and say somewhere inbetween.
38.5" Vert..............40.0" Vert
10'7" Broad........... 10'10" Broad


You have to include the very important agility drills.

Ware - 4.07 20 yd shuttle, 6.85 3 Cone
Maybin - 4.38 20 yd shuttle, 7.52 3 Cone

superman
04-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Brown is the best pass rusher of the bunch, but Orakpo is better suited for a 3-4 as he's the most fluid athlete.

orakpo the most fluid athlete?

superman
04-19-2009, 01:33 PM
The interesting thing regarding Maybin is that all of his negatives (outside of experience) were said of Demarcus Ware. He was only recruited by 3 schools out of high school. He was a 195lb WR. Many thought that Ware was a reach at #11. Many thought he relied solely on his speed. He gained 20lbs (230-250) between his final game and the Combine.

On paper, they're nearly identical. Pre-draft numbers for both...

Ware.................... Maybin
6'4" 251lbs............ 6'4" 252lbs
4.56 40................ 4.59 40
38.5" Vert..............40.0" Vert
10'7" Broad........... 10'10" Broad

i thought maybin ran a 4.6 something and 4.7 something at his proday

and also, ware did his numbers at the combine

Highagain
04-19-2009, 01:39 PM
i thought maybin ran a 4.6 something and 4.7 something at his proday

and also, ware did his numbers at the combine

Hand-timed so it depends who you ask...

superman
04-19-2009, 01:40 PM
Hand-timed so it depends who you ask...

yeah, that's why i wouldn't trust that when he ran a 4.8+ at the combine.

Highagain
04-19-2009, 01:41 PM
yeah, that's why i wouldn't trust that when he ran a 4.8+ at the combine.

Who cares what his 40 time was? Does anybody actually think Maybin isn't a great straight-line athlete?

superman
04-19-2009, 01:45 PM
Who cares what his 40 time was? Does anybody actually think Maybin isn't a great straight-line athlete?

no, he is great. better than me. just not as good as a couple other guys.

Highagain
04-19-2009, 01:55 PM
no, he is great. better than me. just not as good as a couple other guys.

A couple other guys named...?

Babylon
04-19-2009, 02:00 PM
A couple other guys named...?


Brian Orakpo, Clay Mathews, Connor Barwin, Lawrence Sidbury. All better straight line athletes.

superman
04-19-2009, 02:01 PM
A couple other guys named...?

most of the non dt/ol's at the combine

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:05 PM
most of the non dt/ol's at the combine

Are you kidding me?

superman
04-19-2009, 02:06 PM
Are you kidding me?

i'm just looking from an unbiased p.o.v.

you seem like a maybin fan

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:06 PM
Brian Orakpo, Clay Mathews, Connor Barwin, Lawrence Sidbury. All better straight line athletes.

There is no way any of those guys have better burst than Aaron Maybin. You could argue they're more fluid or have better COD, but straight-line Maybin has the best burst in this draft.

superman
04-19-2009, 02:07 PM
oh we're just talking who can burst better?

well maybin does have the most impressive jumps

superman
04-19-2009, 02:08 PM
then again nobody is saying dillard is a better athlete than heyward bey even though his vert was better

vert is a good indicator is athleticism as fast twitch fibers help a lot, but it's not the be all end all

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:13 PM
then again nobody is saying dillard is a better athlete than heyward bey even though his vert was better

vert is a good indicator is athleticism as fast twitch fibers help a lot, but it's not the be all end all

Watch tape. Maybin has burst. Orakpo lacks burst when compared to Maybin which is why I like Maybin better.

superman
04-19-2009, 02:15 PM
Watch tape. Maybin has burst. Orakpo lacks burst when compared to Maybin which is why I like Maybin better.

i'll agree with the burst part

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:16 PM
i'll agree with the burst part

When's the last time you saw a 3-4 OLB run 40 yards in a straight line? It's all about burst and short speed at that position.

superman
04-19-2009, 02:20 PM
When's the last time you saw a 3-4 OLB run 40 yards in a straight line? It's all about burst and short speed at that position.well dang, maybe they should just have lb do the vert jump at the combine.

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:21 PM
well dang, maybe they should just have lb do the vert jump at the combine.

What does the vertical jump have to do with what I'm talking about? Playing football is not a track meet or high jump competition.

Babylon
04-19-2009, 02:22 PM
There is no way any of those guys have better burst than Aaron Maybin. You could argue they're more fluid or have better COD, but straight-line Maybin has the best burst in this draft.

Straight-line to me is 40 yd dash time and maybe shuttle time. Here are some numbers from the combine:

Orakpo-4.70 40
Sidbury-4.64 40, 4.43 20s
Barwin- 4.66 40, 4.18 20s
Matthews -4.67 40, 4.18 20s

Maybin- 4.89 40, 4.38 20s

superman
04-19-2009, 02:22 PM
What does the vertical jump have to do with what I'm talking about? Playing football is not a track meet or high jump competition.
to measure burst...

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:28 PM
Straight-line to me is 40 yd dash time and maybe shuttle time. Here are some numbers from the combine:

Orakpo-4.70 40
Sidbury-4.64 40, 4.43 20s
Barwin- 4.66 40, 4.18 20s
Matthews -4.67 40, 4.18 20s

Maybin- 4.89 40, 4.38 20s

I'm talking about functional football speed. Burst. Explosion. Short speed.

I'm not a big proponent of combine numbers but Maybin had the 2nd fastest 10 yard split at the combine for the position, behind only Matthews (who I think is a 4-3 OLB anyway). Remember Maybin ran very poorly at the combine too and improved greatly at his pro day which means his 10 yard split could have been even better there.

Babylon
04-19-2009, 02:30 PM
I'm talking about functional football speed. Burst. Explosion. Short speed.

I'm not a big proponent of combine numbers but Maybin had the 2nd fastest 10 yard split at the combine for the position, behind only Matthews (who I think is a 4-3 OLB anyway). Remember Maybin ran very poorly at the combine too and improved greatly at his pro day which means his 10 yard split could have been even better there.


Burst, explosion you're right he's right up there, straight-line by definition is something differant.

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Burst, explosion you're right he's right up there, straight-line by definition is something differant.

How often are 3-4 OLBs running more than 10 yards?

superman
04-19-2009, 02:37 PM
How often are 3-4 OLBs running more than 10 yards?

just when he has to make plays other than pass rushing a pocket qb

Highagain
04-19-2009, 02:38 PM
just when he has to make plays other than pass rushing a pocket qb

I don't think you understand the role of a 3-4 OLB. They drop into short zone coverages, rush the passer, and seal the edge against the run. They're not going more than 10 yards very often and clearly short speed is much more important for the position than long speed.

superman
04-19-2009, 02:42 PM
I don't think you understand the role of a 3-4 OLB. They drop into short zone coverages, rush the passer, and seal the edge against the run. They're not going more than 10 yards very often and clearly short speed is much more important for the position than long speed.

i don't think anybody is disagreeing maybin has one of the bests bursts and short area speed, just not best player and/or athlete overall. this thread started out asking who's has potential to be the best olb. a lot of people do not think it's maybin. i'd vote for him to be one of the best fg blocking olb's in the league though. and he very well could be the best olb.

Matthew Jones
04-19-2009, 02:58 PM
Who cares what his 40 time was? Does anybody actually think Maybin isn't a great straight-line athlete?

It depends. At 225-230 in college, he was fast. At 250? Who knows? At the combine he looked bad, and Pro Day times, while somewhat useful, vary wildly. A 4.50 for someone could be a 4.60 for someone else. The question is if Maybin can carry the weight well.

BaLLiN
04-19-2009, 03:06 PM
I just dont see Johnson doing well in coverage, at all, he's a situational guy right now, and bulking up could help him become a 4-3 end but the coverage skills arent there.

He's similar to kiwanuka with size, speed, athleticism, but Kiwanuka couldnt cover at all, and i see a similar thing with Johnson.

TACKLE
04-19-2009, 03:07 PM
Although I value 10 times much more than I value 40 times, they haven't been much of an indicator when it comes to evaluating pass rushers.

Anything under 1.55 is great
Under 1.60 is solid
Over 1.60 is average
Over 1.65 is below average

DeMarcus Ware - 1.62
LaMarr Woodley - 1.65
Jared Allen - 1.68
Joey Porter - 1.63
Kyle Vanden Bosch - 1.71
Elvis Dumervil - 1.68
Patrick Kerney - 1.69

Highagain
04-19-2009, 03:12 PM
It depends. At 225-230 in college, he was fast. At 250? Who knows? At the combine he looked bad, and Pro Day times, while somewhat useful, vary wildly. A 4.50 for someone could be a 4.60 for someone else. The question is if Maybin can carry the weight well.

Maybin had the fastest 10 yard split for a DE at the combine. He also jumped 40 inches at 250 pounds. I think it's safe to say it's good weight and he's carrying it well.

http://i39.tinypic.com/f2m1wl.jpg

I understand the criticisms with Maybin (one year wonder, technique, not a power player) but I don't buy that he isn't big enough or fast enough to play the position. He is an elite athlete at the position and in my opinion the best athlete in the draft for the position.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-19-2009, 03:12 PM
For me, it's like this...

1. Everette Brown
- I really like his ability rushing from the outside. He just looks really comfortable attacking that outside shoulder of the offensive tackle, and from the moves he shows, he obviously has a process to it (as far as I can tell, he's the best defender in this draft at dropping his shoulder and has the best spin move as well). His burst off the line is really good and his snap anticipation is even better. He wraps up in the backfield pretty well. His change of direction is really good and he can pursue in the flats. It's obvious his athletic ability isn't quite as overwhelming as some other players in this draft, but he's the best suited for the position right now.

2. Aaron Maybin
- Excessive amounts of physical ability here (and, interesting sidepoint to the DeMarcus Ware comparisons, Maybin's 10 yard split of his combine 40 is considerably better than Ware's). I'm lukewarm on his game right now. He beat guys in college simply by being a better combination of speed and strength. His game is very similar to Shawne Merriman's game as a rookie, but he's not near the speciman that Merriman is. He's going to have to figure out how to maintain leverage when turning the corner against a tackle. He's going to have to learn to tackle with a bit more authority. But he appears coachable and dedicated, and there's nothing in his physical skill set keeping him from being dominant.

Those are the top two by a fair margin to me. Brian Orakpo is much more of a 4-3 defensive for me. Not to suggest he'd be totally lost as a stand-up edge rusher, but he plays the run well enough and is a good enough athlete that it would be hard to not stick him at RE in a 43 defense. Clint Sintim is a guy who's hype has quieted down considerably, but I think his best fit is probably as a 3-4 SAM, and he could be a guy who winds up being the best all-around 34 OLB to come out of this draft. I'll go ahead and say that I'm not a fan of Brian Cushing. I'm not sure if it's the steroid allegations (which anyone could have predicted) or the fact that he's probably the most talented and was usually the most invisible USC linebacker, but I don't like his NFL prospects.

Maybin had the fastest 10 yard split for a DE at the combine. He also jumped 40 inches at 250 pounds. I think it's safe to say it's good weight and he's carrying it well.

Not true. From what I can find, the defensive ends went like this (keep in mind, these are hand-times from NFL Draft Scout, which are, across the board, faster than the official times from the combine)...

1. Lawrence Sidbury Jr. - 1.53
2. Connor Barwin - 1.53
3. Brian Orakpo - 1.56
4. Michael Johnson - 1.56
5. Aaron Maybin - 1.57
6. Everette Brown - 1.59

superman
04-19-2009, 03:23 PM
i would put maybin over orakpo too. i'm not a maybin hater or anything.

Highagain
04-19-2009, 03:24 PM
Not true. From what I can find, the defensive ends went like this (keep in mind, these are hand-times from NFL Draft Scout, which are, across the board, faster than the official times from the combine)...

1. Lawrence Sidbury Jr. - 1.53
2. Connor Barwin - 1.53
3. Brian Orakpo - 1.56
4. Michael Johnson - 1.56
5. Aaron Maybin - 1.57
6. Everette Brown - 1.59

Here's my source: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/behind-the-times-the-10-yard-split/

GB12
04-19-2009, 03:30 PM
1. Everette Brown
- I really like his ability rushing from the outside. He just looks really comfortable attacking that outside shoulder of the offensive tackle, and from the moves he shows, he obviously has a process to it (as far as I can tell, he's the best defender in this draft at dropping his shoulder and has the best spin move as well). His burst off the line is really good and his snap anticipation is even better. He wraps up in the backfield pretty well. His change of direction is really good and he can pursue in the flats. It's obvious his athletic ability isn't quite as overwhelming as some other players in this draft, but he's the best suited for the position right now.

Great job on that explaination. That's how I feel aswell (although I disagree wwith Maybin being #2). Ever since we switched to a 3-4 defense Everette Brown has been who I wanted at 9. I'd take him ahead of Orakpo and even Raji.

I think Orakpo is the best 4-3 DE in the draft, and Brown is the best 3-4 OLB. I think Scott having Brown drop all the way to 25 is ridiculous. I'd be shocked if he doesn't go in the top half of the first.

Babylon
04-19-2009, 04:09 PM
Not a lot of room between the top 3 or 4 athletes at the OLB position but taking everything from combine to pro days i'd go with:

Barwin
Maybin (just barely over)
Matthews
E. Brown
Sidbury


Dont view Ayers, Cushing, Orakpo or English as 3-4 OLBs