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Flyboy
04-21-2009, 10:15 AM
Let me preface by saying I've always preferred Sanchez over Stafford before the whole off-season process started...

With that said, I'm watching Mark Sanchez on the set on Path to the Draft and it's completely amazing how smooth the guy is in his interviews. I thought Scott was simply being hyperbolic with saying that some teams might be overlooking the lack of experience from Sanchez and being so enamored with how he carries himself, but I could EASILY see that could be the case.

Maybe DHB should take media lessons from Sanchez.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
04-21-2009, 10:22 AM
He even tweets ;)

georgiafan
04-21-2009, 10:23 AM
His agent is smart because he's been on about 50 shows the past few weeks. You just hope teams are moving him up just for that reason.

initial_flo
04-21-2009, 10:26 AM
Let me preface by saying I've always preferred Sanchez over Stafford before the whole off-season process started...

With that said, I'm watching Mark Sanchez on the set on Path to the Draft and it's completely amazing how smooth the guy is in his interviews. I thought Scott was simply being hyperbolic with saying that some teams might be overlooking the lack of experience from Sanchez and being so enamored with how he carries himself, but I could EASILY see that could be the case.

Maybe DHB should take media lessons from Sanchez.

It's just interviews, I don't get why a team would care about that kind of stuff. As long as your not Ryan Leaf amounts of crazy it shouldn't matter at all.

jnew76
04-21-2009, 10:37 AM
This media barnstorming that Sanchez and his agents are doing is genius... They are marketing him as a face of the franchise that will make a difference in ticket sales and media hype surrounding an organization. Sanchez is a more gregarious personality than Stafford. His people recognize this, and are capitalizing on it. He is already branding himself and making the most of every opportunity he has to get himself in front of the camera and on the minds of NFL teams.

Flyboy
04-21-2009, 10:37 AM
It's just interviews, I don't get why a team would care about that kind of stuff. As long as your not Ryan Leaf amounts of crazy it shouldn't matter at all.

The fact is, it DOES matter though. It basically a huge job interview for these prospects (not necessarily being on the NFL Network, but more so when a team wine and dine a player). Teams aren't trying to have players like Pacman Jones on their team anymore. If you bomb in interviews with these teams, it can hurt your stock no matter how good of a player you might be on the field.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Joey Harrington was very media savvy, glib, and charming as hell too.

Same goes for Brady Quinn.

People are really going overboard with how well Sanchez gives "great face".

initial_flo
04-21-2009, 10:50 AM
The fact is, it DOES matter though. It basically a huge job interview for these prospects (not necessarily being on the NFL Network, but more so when a team wine and dine a player). Teams aren't trying to have players like Pacman Jones on their team anymore. If you bomb in interviews with these teams, it can hurt your stock no matter how good of a player you might be on the field.

Yeah no ****, you don't want felons on your team.

But just because you had fun on your man date with Mark Sanchez does not mean his status should be sky rocketing.

Halsey
04-21-2009, 10:52 AM
I'm not saying Sanchez reminds me of him as a player, but when I see him on TV with that winning smile and great personality I can't help but think of:

http://femmefan.com/site/images/featurepics/04_05Season/Joey_Harrington.jpg

Joey's great with the press.

jnew76
04-21-2009, 10:53 AM
Yeah no ****, you don't want felons on your team.

But just because you had fun on your man date with Mark Sanchez does not mean his status should be sky rocketing.

If he has the same or similar grade in the draft, and he can sell tickets, or make more people watch, then I think it makes all the difference in the world.

Scott Wright
04-21-2009, 11:25 AM
Mark Sanchez is a heck of a player and I don't fault people who have liked him better than Stafford all along. I don't agree with it but it's a viable opinion.

However I wonder what has happened recently for Sanchez to move ahead of Stafford on some boards after having it the other way around for the last four months. Was it based on a Pro Day workout? If so that is terrible because the next top quarterback who has a bad Pro Day will be the first. Gil Brandt couldn't stop raving about Alex Smith's Pro Day workout.

I like Sanchez and think he is one of the Top 10 prospects in this draft. With that said I do believe people are falling in love with Mark Sanchez the person (who can blame them) and perhaps subconsciously ignoring some flaws in Matt Sanchez the football player.

initial_flo
04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
If he has the same or similar grade in the draft, and he can sell tickets, or make more people watch, then I think it makes all the difference in the world.

If all else equal, sure.

hockey619
04-21-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not saying Sanchez reminds me of him as a player, but when I see him on TV with that winning smile and great personality I can't help but think of:

http://femmefan.com/site/images/featurepics/04_05Season/Joey_Harrington.jpg

Joey's great with the press.


Peyton Manning is great with the media.
So is Tom Brady.

You chose to compare him to Harrington because you dont like him and he takes away from your hometown player Stafford.


Ive preffered Sanchez since last fall over Stafford and held true to that since he entered the draft. Stafford to me will be similar to Eli early on, as hes not a vocal leader and the media will get on him unfairly for that, but to me hes answered my personal questions of his intangibles as a he seems legit and the type that guys will follow. I dont think he holds up to Sanchez in that way though.

Halsey
04-21-2009, 12:11 PM
Peyton Manning is great with the media.
So is Tom Brady.

You chose to compare him to Harrington because you dont like him and he takes away from your hometown player Stafford.


Ive preffered Sanchez since last fall over Stafford and held true to that since he entered the draft. Stafford to me will be similar to Eli early on, as hes not a vocal leader and the media will get on him unfairly for that, but to me hes answered my personal questions of his intangibles as a he seems legit and the type that guys will follow. I dont think he holds up to Sanchez in that way though.

Yeah, I pretty clearly said I wasn't comparing them as players, only showing that media savvy doesn't mean much. As far as Stafford being my hometown boy, it's not like I'm the only one saying Stafford is the top QB in the Draft. I'm pretty sure being my hometown QB is not the reason Stafford is the #1 QB in most people's opinions. ;)

3pac
04-21-2009, 12:23 PM
People shouldn't bring up Harrington and stuff to take away from this fact. Does it necessarily mean much? Well, no, but it's just an added bonus, it's not as if anyone should try NOT to be a good personality.

Point is, it's a nice perk to have and shouldn't be overlooked, even though it clearly doesn't determine how well the player will do.

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 12:25 PM
A lot of Mark Sanchez haters here. Stafford fans will claim interviews and interviews alone could be the only possible explanation for Mark Sanchez's steady climb up the boards. Has it truly been that dramatic?

In my January 27th Big Board, I ranked Stafford at 2, Sanchez at 10. Now, on my final Big Board, Stafford remains at 2, Sanchez has moved up five spots to #5. So, what has happened between now and January that must have caused this, obviously dramatic and unpredictable, rise in stock for Mark Sanchez?

Could it have been a fairly strong Combine performance while Matthew Stafford, for the most part, sat and watched? No, I doubt it. Could it have been a Pro Day in which he wowed scouts and showed he could make every NFL throw accurately? I don't think so, makes too much sense. Is it because during interviews at both the Combine and following, he showed an intimate level of knowledge and passion for the game and has displayed a tremendous work ethic in the film room? ... I'm sorry, but probably not it. Is it because he has made a few media appearances at which he has seemed like a real nice, personable guy? Bingo, there we go. That must be why Mark Sanchez's stock has risen since January.

That was not meant to mock the original poster here, nor is it meant to mock Scott. It is meant to give the more stubborn Stafford enthusiasts (or Sanchez haters, who cares they're the same people) some perspective on why Mark Sanchez is considered a legitimate Top 5-10 pick and in some opinions a better prospect that Matthew Stafford.

Personally I have Matthew Stafford a bit above Sanchez in my rankings. Still, the arguments for Sanchez over Stafford can hold plenty of ground. Sanchez is the more cerebral of the two. He's a film junky with surprising knowledge and understanding of the game. He reads defenses well and has the arm strength and accuracy to deliver. I love his passion for the game, poise as a player and person, and ability to rally his teammates behind him. I think he's a big game player as well, he certainly showed up against Penn State, Oregon, and Ohio State (Three Top 15 teams.) In those three games, the three against highest ranked opponents, Sanchez threw 11 Td's, only 1 Int, and added a rushing score. Conversely, the three top ranked teams that Matthew Stafford faced (Florida, Alabama, Georgia Tech), 7 Td's 5 Int's. Stats aren't everything, I know that and you should too. Still, Sanchez has risen to the occasion and gotten it done on the football field which some don't give him proper credit for.

None of this is meant to take anything away from Stafford, but as I said earlier, maybe give some that don't understand his rising a new perspective.

Flyboy
04-21-2009, 12:40 PM
Really great post, Pudgie.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-21-2009, 12:51 PM
Pudge, I don't hate Mark Sanchez, but for folks to go ape-sh@t over how media savvy he is irrelevant to me, all that should matter in evaluating a QB is how well they rally their teammates on the field and how well they play their position.

Being concerned about how many jerseys or how many seats your marquee QB sells is a stone cold Dan Snyder move, not one based strictly on personnel and talent.

Mark Sanchez may develop into a top 10-15 QB in the league, I have no argument at this point to say he doesn't have that kind of upside.

But Stafford has done it longer( 3 year starter) in the SEC, and without a clear advantage in talent over the rest of the conference.

Ironically, you picked Stafford's performance against three ranked teams, GT, UF, and Alabama as a data sample to demonstrate that Stafford didn't step up like Sanchez did against top competition.

That's a disengenouos comparison because Sanchez doesn't have a similar body of work. I'm sure those aren't the only 3 games that Stafford played against ranked competition in his career, and I'm certain I could find better stats than 7tds, 5 INTs.

My point is, as of right now, having started for 3 years in the SEC, Stafford IMO is more pro-ready than Sanchez. Does that mean he'll be the better NFL QB in five years? No.

But it does explain why I think Stafford probably should be picked ahead of Sanchez in the draft, unless you think Sanchez has more obvious upside right now.

EDIT: Didn't Stafford have the higher Wonderlic score? If he did, unless you have inside info, I don't know how you can make the claim Sanchez is more cerebral or more engaged in film study.

SeanTaylorRIP
04-21-2009, 12:58 PM
I think being so media savvy will hurt someone like Sanchez if he goes to a team like the Lions. If he's on the Lions and is not performing off the bat the media will be in his face all day and he'd be flustered. Stafford's more calm and subdue way of facing the media will certainly work in his favor when he does go through those rookie mistakes that are bound to happen. Sanchez must have pouted his lips and flipped his greasy hair in Snyder's face so much that Snyder will now give up his family to get Sanchez.

georgiafan
04-21-2009, 01:16 PM
Agian Stafford was 11-4 against ranked teams for his career yet somehow he isn't a big game player. He also had several game winning TD drives.

P-L
04-21-2009, 01:22 PM
Agian Stafford was 11-4 against ranked teams for his career yet somehow he isn't a big game player. He also had several game winning TD drives.
Wait you mean Stafford isn't a complete failure in all big games just because he had a bad game against Florida this past season?

TonyGfortheTD
04-21-2009, 01:25 PM
Mark Sanchez is a heck of a player and I don't fault people who have liked him better than Stafford all along. I don't agree with it but it's a viable opinion.

However I wonder what has happened recently for Sanchez to move ahead of Stafford on some boards after having it the other way around for the last four months. Was it based on a Pro Day workout? If so that is terrible because the next top quarterback who has a bad Pro Day will be the first. Gil Brandt couldn't stop raving about Alex Smith's Pro Day workout.

I like Sanchez and think he is one of the Top 10 prospects in this draft. With that said I do believe people are falling in love with Mark Sanchez the person (who can blame them) and perhaps subconsciously ignoring some flaws in Matt Sanchez the football player.

I think by now, Stafford is beginning to be over-analyzed. People like Kiper have had much more tape of Stafford to comb over than Sanchez, so they've found a lot more to nit pick about on Matt. They've also known Stafford was coming in the draft much longer than Sanchez.

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 01:42 PM
But Stafford has done it longer( 3 year starter) in the SEC, and without a clear advantage in talent over the rest of the conference.

Ironically, you picked Stafford's performance against three ranked teams, GT, UF, and Alabama as a data sample to demonstrate that Stafford didn't step up like Sanchez did against top competition.

That's a disengenouos comparison because Sanchez doesn't have a similar body of work. I'm sure those aren't the only 3 games that Stafford played against ranked competition in his career, and I'm certain I could find better stats than 7tds, 5 INTs.

My point is, as of right now, having started for 3 years in the SEC, Stafford IMO is more pro-ready than Sanchez. Does that mean he'll be the better NFL QB in five years? No.

But it does explain why I think Stafford probably should be picked ahead of Sanchez in the draft, unless you think Sanchez has more obvious upside right now.

EDIT: Didn't Stafford have the higher Wonderlic score? If he did, unless you have inside info, I don't know how you can make the claim Sanchez is more cerebral or more engaged in film study.

For that stat I used the three top ranked teams USC and Georgia played, respectively, a year ago. Not three random ranked teams, the three best. It is, as I mentioned though, just a stat and may be one to take with a grain of salt. You can argue where you'd like for Stafford there, though one thing is clear and the thing I was trying to get across: Mark Sanchez is a big game player. You can watch Stafford play in these games and say he is or isn't a big game player. With Sanchez, there's really no argument. He picked apart the Ohio State, Penn State, and Oregon defenses with ease and never looked to break a sweat. His poise, maturity, and leadership was very evident.

I really don't buy Stafford as a more NFL-ready prospect than Sanchez. Could he bring more long-term rewards? Absolutely. Still, does his game truly translate to the NFL level more? I don't think so. Say what you will about his experience as a starter, he still learned four years under Pete Carroll and has that four years of experience taking snaps under center in a pro-style offense. He started 16 games, ok. How'd he do in those starts? You could watch tape of last year's Rose Bowl and I guarantee you couldn't tell me how many years he has started.

I think it would be different were he not such a hard worker. He is an absolute student of the game. He spends hours in the film room. He puts in his time in the weight room. He can diagnose and read defenses as well as anyone and you know you're going to get that work on and off the field. This is not a guy who I think is at all behind the curve.

Stafford is going to need to learn how to not only make reads more consistently, but also learn to control that arm of his. He has plenty of arm strength and is not the least bit inaccurate. He's very confident and will often try to force a play with his arm. This will lead to an accurate pass, but one that may in ways ignore the defensive coverage. He knows he can put the ball in a tight spot, but will need to adjust to the speed of NFL defenders. Mark Sanchez is going to be a little less of a risk taker, less of a gunslinger, but I trust him more to know where the defense is and I know he has the arm to make any throw. This is the principle that has led some to believe Sanchez is actually the safer choice, and that Stafford is the more high-upside choice.

Stafford's experience works in his favor in terms of draft stock, but there are other reasons he'll be drafted higher. His arm strength is tremendous, he is an accurate passer, he's a competitor, he has a quick release, he is a smart player, he can throw powerfully and accurately on the run. He's just a tad more experienced than Sanchez and has the prototypical physical tools a la Jay Cutler/John Elway.

Also, the Wonderlic doesn't account for how well and quickly each player breaks down and reads defenses. It doesn't account for a player's film study, understanding, and knowledge of the game. Stafford is above average intangibly and cerebrally, but almost like Matt Ryan a year ago, Sanchez is off the charts.

Babylon
04-21-2009, 01:49 PM
Mark Sanchez is a heck of a player and I don't fault people who have liked him better than Stafford all along. I don't agree with it but it's a viable opinion.

However I wonder what has happened recently for Sanchez to move ahead of Stafford on some boards after having it the other way around for the last four months. Was it based on a Pro Day workout? If so that is terrible because the next top quarterback who has a bad Pro Day will be the first. Gil Brandt couldn't stop raving about Alex Smith's Pro Day workout.

I like Sanchez and think he is one of the Top 10 prospects in this draft. With that said I do believe people are falling in love with Mark Sanchez the person (who can blame them) and perhaps subconsciously ignoring some flaws in Matt Sanchez the football player.

I think he might be moving ahead on draft analysis boards but doubt he's ahead on any team boards. Like you pointed out nothing has changed since the end of the season and in fact Stafford has probably outperformed Sanchez in several areas.

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Agian Stafford was 11-4 against ranked teams for his career yet somehow he isn't a big game player. He also had several game winning TD drives.

This is a tremendous example of what I have stated. Stafford homers see what they'd like to. I never said Stafford wasn't a good big game player. I think it is up to debate whether or not he is. Personally, I think he's fine in big games and don't think he at all crumbles under pressure or in a big-game situation.

I presented the stat as a simple comparison only because I took the time to look up Sanchez's stats, so I also put Stafford's. I think Mark Sanchez really steps up his game in big-time situations. I don't think Stafford collapses at all, I think he is more or less the same player in big games, which is absolutely fine. I did leave the comment "Stats aren't everything, I know and you should too" because I thought the stat would be skewed by Sanchez-haters (or Stafford fans, once again they are synonymous.)

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I think he might be moving ahead on draft analysis boards but doubt he's ahead on any team boards. Like you pointed out nothing has changed since the end of the season and in fact Stafford has probably outperformed Sanchez in several areas.

I believe it was reported recently that Mark Sanchez has moved ahead of Matthew Stafford on select team boards. This has apparently due to systematic fit. Perhaps WCO teams such as Washington or Seattle, or perhaps Denver who apparently loves the USC product. I'll attempt to find a link, as I remember hearing it and not really being all too surprised.

I think Matthew Stafford is still the odds-on #1 Quarterback in the eyes of most NFL scouts and evaluators, but it would certainly not shock me if some preferred Mark Sanchez or even Kansas State's Josh Freeman.

Babylon
04-21-2009, 02:29 PM
I believe it was reported recently that Mark Sanchez has moved ahead of Matthew Stafford on select team boards. This has apparently due to systematic fit. Perhaps WCO teams such as Washington or Seattle, or perhaps Denver who apparently loves the USC product. I'll attempt to find a link, as I remember hearing it and not really being all too surprised.

I think Matthew Stafford is still the odds-on #1 Quarterback in the eyes of most NFL scouts and evaluators, but it would certainly not shock me if some preferred Mark Sanchez or even Kansas State's Josh Freeman.

The Seahawks have talked to the media at least that they would prefer Stafford, but are operating under the belief that he wont be there.

As for some liking Freeman over the other two i think that would be shocking.

MooshooGawd
04-21-2009, 02:31 PM
He definitely has the advantage when it comes to personality. Man, watching Stafford interviews are painful.

Addict
04-21-2009, 02:39 PM
He definitely has the advantage when it comes to personality. Man, watching Stafford interviews are painful.

he's not THAT bad... But I agree he's not nearly as fluid as Sanchez.

Babylon
04-21-2009, 02:44 PM
He definitely has the advantage when it comes to personality. Man, watching Stafford interviews are painful.

Have you ever listened to the Mannings talk? Way too much is made of this personality thing. By the way Stafford comes off as an intelligent, courteous and confident young man.

diabsoule
04-21-2009, 02:47 PM
It's good to see USC's tuition money at work.

Fogartynyy2789
04-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Have you ever listened to the Mannings talk? Way too much is made of this personality thing. By the way Stafford comes off as an intelligent, courteous and confident young man.

There should be a law in which Stafford has to wear a hat at all times. It looks like something died on his head.

Halsey
04-21-2009, 02:54 PM
I'd like to know where the idea that Sanchez is "more cerebral" comes from? Why wasn't he more cerebral on the Wonderlic? I know Stafford was calling audibles early in his career at UGA. What evidence is there that Sanchez is "more cerebral"? Don't make excuses or try to cover up a lack of evidence by calling me a homer. Actually argue what was said. Seems to me people are just echoing what they heard others say without really having a clue who is "more cerebral". I believe Pete Carrol called Sanchez cerebral and others have just run with it. Carrol never said Sanchez was more cerebral than Stafford because he probably doesn't know either.

San Diego Chicken
04-21-2009, 03:05 PM
I'd like to know where the idea that Sanchez is "more cerebral" comes from? Why wasn't he more cerebral on the Wonderlic? I know Stafford was calling audibles early in his career at UGA. What evidence is there that Sanchez is "more cerebral"? Don't make excuses or try to cover up a lack of evidence by calling me a homer. Actually argue what was said. Seems to me people are just echoing what they heard others say without really having a clue who is "more cerebral". I believe Pete Carrol called Sanchez cerebral and others have just run with it. Carrol never said Sanchez was more cerebral than Stafford because he probably doesn't know either.

Just my opinion, but Sanchez has a better ability to manipulate defenses with his eyes and head, processes information faster, and gets through his reads more quickly. Stafford clearly has more arm talent. If you could combine these things that both QB's excell at, you'd have the perfect prospect.

Dark Knight01
04-21-2009, 03:16 PM
I get a kick how every year the media just loves to kiss butt on the jocks of the QB's everyear. No matter how over rated they may be.

SMOKESCREENS are going into their final act this week! LOL

Babylon
04-21-2009, 03:26 PM
Just my opinion, but Sanchez has a better ability to manipulate defenses with his eyes and head, processes information faster, and gets through his reads more quickly. Stafford clearly has more arm talent. If you could combine these things that both QB's excell at, you'd have the perfect prospect.

That was echoed on ESPN or you're echoing them. Stafford is just as good going through his progressions. He may be guilty over his career of trusting his arm too much but he wasnt focusing on just 1 or 2 receivers. He threw to his backs and TEs on a regular basis.

georgiafan
04-21-2009, 03:28 PM
Just throwing this out, but what QB doesn't step up when his big games are agianst big 10 teams?

Babylon
04-21-2009, 03:33 PM
Just throwing this out, but what QB doesn't step up when his big games are agianst big 10 teams?

Now that's hitting below the belt.

San Diego Chicken
04-21-2009, 03:42 PM
That was echoed on ESPN or you're echoing them. Stafford is just as good going through his progressions. He may be guilty over his career of trusting his arm too much but he wasnt focusing on just 1 or 2 receivers. He threw to his backs and TEs on a regular basis.

It's all on film and I really don't have time to watch ESPN's draft shows. Even on paper, there was demonstrably wider ball distribution in Southern Cal's offense versus Georgia's. Even their fullback Havili had over 300 recieving yards.

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 05:18 PM
I'd like to know where the idea that Sanchez is "more cerebral" comes from? Why wasn't he more cerebral on the Wonderlic? I know Stafford was calling audibles early in his career at UGA. What evidence is there that Sanchez is "more cerebral"? Don't make excuses or try to cover up a lack of evidence by calling me a homer. Actually argue what was said. Seems to me people are just echoing what they heard others say without really having a clue who is "more cerebral". I believe Pete Carrol called Sanchez cerebral and others have just run with it. Carrol never said Sanchez was more cerebral than Stafford because he probably doesn't know either.

A quote from an earlier post. I never dodge an argument by putting others down, if I do call someone a homer it is for a reason and I back up my points. If you go back, I explained that exact point earlier. The quote is pasted below.

On Sanchez being the more cerebral prospect..."Also, the Wonderlic doesn't account for how well and quickly each player breaks down and reads defenses. It doesn't account for a player's film study, understanding, and knowledge of the game. Stafford is above average intangibly and cerebrally, but almost like Matt Ryan a year ago, Sanchez is off the charts."

Sniper
04-21-2009, 05:23 PM
Just throwing this out, but what QB doesn't step up when his big games are agianst big 10 teams?

Remember that time where Chad Henne had more wins over Florida than Matt Stafford did? Good times.

ThePudge
04-21-2009, 05:28 PM
Just throwing this out, but what QB doesn't step up when his big games are agianst big 10 teams?

Say what you will about the Big 10 as a whole and their recent bowl performances. Both Penn State and Ohio State possess plenty of NFL talent on their defenses and neither could be called a push-over defensively no matter what conference you're a fan of.

Penn State - 8th in the country in Total Defense
Ohio State - 14th