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View Full Version : Quick question regarding my final rankings


Matthew Jones
04-22-2009, 12:23 PM
In the past I have ranked players similar to how most people do on defense - DE, DT, OLB, MLB, CB, FS, SS. I'm way behind this year and haven't started my defensive rankings, but I thought of something that might be interesting, and I wanted to poll what you guys thought.

Here are the two options:

1. Rank the players as most people do for a 4-3 (DE, DT, OLB, MLB, CB, FS, SS)

2. Rank the players for their fit in a 3-4 defense (DE, NT, OLB, ILB, CB, FS, SS)

Since it seems like a lot of people have been mentioning that they want some kind of 3-4 defensive rankings, I was figuring I could probably do that if that's what was popular, because there are a lot of places to find regular 4-3 style rankings. I can't do both rankings because I'm going to be kind of busy and I still haven't done the secondary. Which would you like?

Why the Bengals
04-22-2009, 12:28 PM
rank them 3-4. different perspective..everybody else does 4-3

stephenson86
04-22-2009, 12:31 PM
do both?......

jnew76
04-22-2009, 12:34 PM
I would do the traditional 4-3 rankings. You could honestly do 3 different 3-4 defensive rankings because of the variations that are ran in the NFL. There is the Phillips version (named for Bum Phillips) one gap system. There is the LeBeau Zone-Blitz 3-4... and finally the traditional Bullough 3-4, or 2-gap system. All the systems have slightly different philosophies and require slightly different personnel.

I have recently read a ton of stuff on the different systems and IMO there is no way that players are valued the same way from team to team in a 3-4. Most of the talking heads on ESPN/NFLN do a terribly poor job of explaining the differences and fail to recognize that a 3-4 player in the Patriots system would often not fit in the Steelers system.

Matthew Jones
04-22-2009, 12:41 PM
do both?......

I already explained this in the original post:

I can't do both rankings because I'm going to be kind of busy

I would do the traditional 4-3 rankings. You could honestly do 3 different 3-4 defensive rankings because of the variations that are ran in the NFL. There is the Phillips version (named for Bum Phillips) one gap system. There is the LeBeau Zone-Blitz 3-4... and finally the traditional Bullough 3-4, or 2-gap system. All the systems have slightly different philosophies and require slightly different personnel.

I have recently read a ton of stuff on the different systems and IMO there is no way that players are valued the same way from team to team in a 3-4. Most of the talking heads on ESPN/NFLN do a terribly poor job of explaining the differences and fail to recognize that a 3-4 player in the Patriots system would often not fit in the Steelers system.

Couldn't you say the same thing about 4-3 defenses? There are certainly more 4-3 defense variations than there are 3-4 defense variations.

terribletowel39
04-22-2009, 12:41 PM
I say do the 34 and while jnew is right, it would still be interesting to finally see some 34 rankings. It is becoming more and more popular with teams. If you take what jnew said into account just rank them for the best of the three. (obviously Lebeau's) :D

Matthew Jones
04-22-2009, 12:45 PM
I say do the 34 and while jnew is right, it would still be interesting to finally see some 34 rankings. It is becoming more and more popular with teams. If you take what jnew said into account just rank them for the best of the three. (obviously Lebeau's) :D

Sadly, considering the Patriots' defensive collapses against the Colts and Giants in the AFC Championship and Super Bowl, I can't really argue with this. I will say Romeo Crennel's defenses in New England were magnificent though.

terribletowel39
04-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Sadly, considering the Patriots' defensive collapses against the Colts and Giants in the AFC Championship and Super Bowl, I can't really argue with this. I will say Romeo Crennel's defenses in New England were magnificent though.
That is true but while I haven't actually looked it up, I am willing to bet Lebeau's defense has been top 10 for the past 10 yrs.

Actually, I will return with that info.

I stand corrected. I just did it quickly and looked at total yards allowed per game.

2008: 1st
2007: 1st
2006: 9th
2005: 4th
2004: 1st
2003: 9th
2002: 7th
2001: 1st
2000: 7th
1999: 11th

So 9 out of 10 ain't bad. Over the past ten years, I don't think you will find a team with more #1 defenses.

jnew76
04-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Couldn't you say the same thing about 4-3 defenses? There are certainly more 4-3 defense variations than there are 3-4 defense variations.

Yep, Tampa 2, Jimmy Johnson Blitz Heavy, 4-3 Under (Arizona), The Ravens play both...

I guess I would do the 4-3 rankings with one extra category - that being the 3-4 OLB Hybrids and I would have player overlap in the OLB/DE/3-4 OLB-Hybrid rankings. Projecting 3-4 DE's is just too hard to do accurately and varies so much by system. You have only 1 or 2 natural fits at the position anyway.

However, it sounds like everyone would like to see the 3-4 rankings and I do believe it would be very interesting to look at as well.

I am hoping that Scott expands his rankings to include these positions and projections next year.

Matthew Jones
04-22-2009, 01:07 PM
That is true but while I haven't actually looked it up, I am willing to bet Lebeau's defense has been top 10 for the past 10 yrs.

Actually, I will return with that info.

I stand corrected. I just did it quickly and looked at total yards allowed per game.

2008: 1st
2007: 1st
2006: 9th
2005: 4th
2004: 1st
2003: 9th
2002: 7th
2001: 1st
2000: 7th
1999: 11th

So 9 out of 10 ain't bad. Over the past ten years, I don't think you will find a team with more #1 defenses.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying Romeo Crennel had fantastic defenses in New England that seem to have gotten increasingly boring since he left and other defensive coordinators have cycled through. The team ranked 1st, 2nd, and 2nd in PPG allowed for the three Super Bowls, partly due to very confusing schemes Crennel used (one lineman, seven linebackers, etc.)