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Shahin
04-23-2009, 05:50 PM
First of all sorry for not putting this in the homework thread, I couldn't find it and this **** is due tomorrow. (procrastination baby)

Anyway, is anybody here an old-school hip hop fan? I got an english class and the essay I have to write is on how MODERN hip-hop's message is greatly distorted from original hip-hops message to society.

Original hip-hop as defined by: The Harlem Renaissance/early jazz/EARLY rap/etc

HELP A BROTHA OUT

Vikes99ej
04-23-2009, 05:57 PM
Why would you choose a ******* topic like that?

tjsunstein
04-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Most modern hip hop doesn't have a message. Look at the top 10 hip hop/rap songs on iTunes. It really depends on who you listen to. Say Talib Kweli as opposed to Soulja Boy. You then have the old school rap that actually was meant to say something rather than make a quick buck.

Depending on how long this essay has to be, you can BS a good portion.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
04-23-2009, 06:01 PM
You are going to have to talk about how it from a way of life to it just being about money and fame. How old hiphop had a message and today's hiphop is about nothing more than the individual. You can quote some good rappers from old hiphop and compare it to what recent hiphop artists say. There is such a big difference in hiphop. Why this topic if you don't know about it?

yourfavestoner
04-23-2009, 06:13 PM
That's going to be really tough to define, as there as so many sub-genres of hip-hop. Every region of the US has hip-hop that differs from other regions as they have come up. The East Coast/New York scene was all about swagger and word play. They're punchline rappers. Gangster rap evolved out of the West Coast. The South has brought us Trap Music - hustlers who said they were rich and acted like they were rich until it actually paid off and they got rich. Cash Money literally set the stage for this movement when a 14 year old Lil Wayne came up with the saying "bling bling" in the late 90s.

It's hard to combine a specific message in all of these sub-genres, but like any art form, it generally tells the story of struggle and overcoming. I suppose you could say that the message changed once corporate America got it's hands on hip-hop and tried to make it more about production than linguistic talent. They've tried to make it appeal to all sorts of people in the form of shallow club music.

This should help you out some, too:
Bf2dtqsfxi8

yourfavestoner
04-23-2009, 06:22 PM
Cash Money definitely contributed to the "bling" movement but it's as old as rap itself. It was just that only a select few rappers could afford bling so it meant a lot more.

I know, I wasn't clear enough. What I meant by the "bling" movement was that poor guys started acting and talking rich, and people liked it enough to where it actually made them rich - as opposed to rappers who were talking about money they actually already had haha.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
04-23-2009, 06:22 PM
You should of took more time to write this. If I ever get to write about this I would love it. Hiphop is awesome if you know the history. Once again, why choose this topic if you don't know about it?

Brent
04-23-2009, 06:29 PM
Well, old school was about social injustice and etc., now main stream is about materialistic crap. Just watch this: http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=187054&title=the-death-of-hip-hop When did "Fight the Power," become, "Wait 'till you see my dick"? haha.

WMD
04-23-2009, 06:37 PM
O4o8TeqKhgY

Rjspartan
04-23-2009, 06:41 PM
modern HIPHOP:
Drugs
Bitches
Clubs
Cars
Gangs
Killing
Money

PACKmanN
04-23-2009, 06:42 PM
That's going to be an extremely difficult essay to write.

What is modern hip-hop's message? I don't think you can even define it because it depends who you're listening to.

its simple. Early hip-hop was about how difficult things were and how everyone in their community didn't have anything, but drugs and crime in their life.

Modern= nothing, they don't talk about anything but themselves and how rich they are.

PACKmanN
04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
Clearly the understanding of somebody who doesn't listen to hip-hop now and didn't listen to it in the past.

right, I have been listening to hip-hop my entire life.

PACKmanN
04-23-2009, 06:47 PM
Then you should know you can't pigeon hole rap like that, new or old.

well, that's how mainstream has been.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
04-23-2009, 06:52 PM
well, that's how mainstream has been.

Yea but there is a lot more hiphop out there than just mainstream. Underground is a good place to find quality hiphop.

PACKmanN
04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
Yea but there is a lot more hiphop out there than just mainstream. Underground is a good place to find quality hiphop.

that's what I listen to, but most listen to the mainstream crap than they do to the underground MCs.

WMD
04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
Nowadays, everything is so image conscious with little substance necessary.. it seems like most mainstream rappers are just created out of a factory by Record Execs... Relevant for a year at the most, good enough for one or two hit singles, and then they're disposed of.

CashmoneyDrew
04-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Cash Money literally set the stage for this movement

Damn straight I did.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
04-23-2009, 07:17 PM
He is talking about people like Richboy/mims/young joc/the laffytaffy people/etc

the decider13
04-23-2009, 07:19 PM
http://www.ihousephilly.org/images/wutangclan6.jpg

this is what it's all about

WMD
04-23-2009, 07:23 PM
Like who? The only artists who are currently selling (aka mainstream) are Lil Wayne, T.I., and Kanye West. How are any of those rappers "created", good for only one or two hit singles, or relevant for a year at most?
You're always going to have your mainstays.. I'm just talking about guys like Soulja Boy, J-Kwon, Hurricane Chris, Jibbs.. I can't be bothered to think of many more.

Shahin
04-23-2009, 07:24 PM
wow i didn't expect this many responses, i just came back. thanks for everybody's input, haven't read them yet.

basically the essay is gonna be about how modern hip-hop really LACKS a clear, meaningful message.

Shahin
04-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Why would you choose a ******* topic like that?

Once again, why choose this topic if you don't know about it?


i didn't choose the damn topic.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
04-23-2009, 07:40 PM
ERRBODY IN THE CLUB GETTIN' TIPS

errbody in the club gettin tipsaaayyy

TitanHope
04-23-2009, 07:44 PM
What kind of an essay is this, Shahin? An opinion paper? A research paper?

the decider13
04-23-2009, 07:47 PM
Those guys barely sell and are not indicative of the mainstream or hip-hop as a whole. With the exception of Soulja Boy, they are one-hit wonders. Nobody defines alt rock according to what Crazy Town does, so why define rap based on what Jibbs does?

Mainstream=what sells

Turn on MTV for an hour and you will see tons of it. And iTunes top 10 is just full of random rap music (mims, D4l, Soulja boy etc).

CJSchneider
04-23-2009, 07:51 PM
Ok, this is real fast as I am in a hurry. Lions WMD hit it on the head. Go back and look at Grand Master Flash "The Message" , MC Shan "The Bridge" and Run DMC "It's Like That". Those will give you a good example of the message that rap initially had (btw rap was originally spelled raap and it stood for Rhythmical African American Poetry). It was about the plight of the ghetto life - plain and simple. Over time, rap evolved until, more recently, rap / hip-hop has become more about putting the focus on self.

Shahin
04-23-2009, 08:16 PM
What kind of an essay is this, Shahin? An opinion paper? A research paper?

an opinion essay. the main premise being how modern hip-hop lacks the defining message that embodied the oldschool hip-hop culture.

Shahin
04-23-2009, 08:38 PM
I suppose you could say that the message changed once corporate America got it's hands on hip-hop and tried to make it more about production than linguistic talent. They've tried to make it appeal to all sorts of people in the form of shallow club music.

that's what i'm trying to get at...but at what point did corporate America take control?

Shahin
04-23-2009, 09:54 PM
I would argue that music today is much less controlled by "corporate America" than it ever has been. You don't need a multi-million dollar studio to create commercial quality music. You might need money to get spins on MTV but you can create a big enough buzz through the internet to build a fanbase.

i agree with this. a few years ago (lets say 5-10), were people able to create commercial quality music without a great studio?

Hate on Soulja Boy all you want, but he built his fanbase without the help of any outside financing. That's the new model and the same model that the original rappers had to use because there wasn't any money out there for rap artists. Become hot in your own community and on the internet, and the labels come calling.

i'm going to try and work this into my essay.

E-Man
04-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Wish I can help, but it's too late for me to come up with research. Off the top of my head I'd advise to work in some underground artists, and how they have the artistic freedom to still give hip hop a message. You could also work an angle that they sacrifice bigger sales to get their message across.

This is a 5 minute vid that might help.
http://vodpod.com/watch/1531930-cee-brown-and-asheru-discuss-hip-hop-and-education

RaiderNation
04-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Just walk into your class room and say I made a youtube video song on the topic

use this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

Shahin
04-23-2009, 11:14 PM
Just walk into your class room and say I made a youtube video song on the topic

use this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

Unhelpful man

Byrd430
04-23-2009, 11:32 PM
Wish this was my topic.... I gotta write a paper about how Toni Morrison victimizes women in the book The Bluest Eye....

Anyway, I wouldn't say that hip hop doesn't have a message now. It's not as politically charged, as hard-hitting, or as cultural as the message older hip hop artists gave, but regardless, there is still a message.

I mean, come on, African-Americans can only put forth so many songs showing the plight of young black people. Fact is, the times have changed (not much, but nevertheless). I strongly urge you to remember those hip hop artists who still put forth such a message (The Game, T.I. come to mind).

Additionally, rappers put out what sells. If it's the club hit that sells, that's what they'll give them. And no club hits generally do not have a message, they are written simply for the money and radio play. Can you blame rappers for this? I blame us.

Shahin
04-23-2009, 11:38 PM
Additionally, rappers put out what sells. If it's the club hit that sells, that's what they'll give them. And no club hits generally do not have a message, they are written simply for the money and radio play. Can you blame rappers for this? I blame us.

that's a whole paragraph for me to expand on. +rep for you sir.

edit//soon as i can

TitanHope
04-24-2009, 12:24 AM
an opinion essay. the main premise being how modern hip-hop lacks the defining message that embodied the oldschool hip-hop culture.

For one, the audiences are different generations. Like your post above me says, "I blame us." Not only do we consume what they play, but it's easier for us to do so - more specifically the internet. With resources like that, anyone can put out a song for the public. More rappers and songs, more messages and influences.

Also, you may wanna delve into the stereotype that rap music is all about sex, drugs, violence, or whatever - as I've seen that assumption. It's something all music does. The line goes, "Sex, drugs, and Rock 'n Roll," not "Sex, drugs, and Hip Hop." I think that has racial/cultural ties, but while it's a touchy subject, it's a lengthy one.

Either way, good luck to ya. Procrastinators unite!...tomorrow.

Shahin
04-24-2009, 12:30 AM
For one, the audiences are different generations. Like your post above me says, "I blame us." Not only do we consume what they play, but it's easier for us to do so - more specifically the internet. With resources like that, anyone can put out a song for the public. More rappers and songs, more messages and influences.

Also, you may wanna delve into the stereotype that rap music is all about sex, drugs, violence, or whatever - as I've seen that assumption. It's something all music does. The line goes, "Sex, drugs, and Rock 'n Roll," not "Sex, drugs, and Hip Hop." I think that has racial/cultural ties, but while it's a touchy subject, it's a lengthy one.

Either way, good luck to ya. Procrastinators unite!...tomorrow.


thanks man, feel free to add any more insight on the subject as it comes to you.




cuz i'm still writing the damn thing.

TitanHope
04-24-2009, 12:58 AM
Well, I'm no expert on the subject, so when that happens, I try to think outside the box - which is long for "BS" it. :D

You're being asked to define an entire musical genre. I can go to my Rhapsody account right now, look up an artist, and it will give me a main genre, a sub-genre, and then a sub-sub-genre. Rap/Hip-Hop goes into 14 different sub-genres, ranging from Christian Rap, to East Coast/West Coast/Southern, to Lyrical, to something called "Rapcore." So when you're asked why current Hip-Hop doesn't have a defining message, it's because it has expanded and evolved so much. It's commercial, and when things go commercial, they can lose the basic roots in which they were made. Now, that's not to say Hip-Hop has lost it's history - far from it. But it can be the reason why the message gets lost. Especially when it's going to a mainstream audience from all across the globe...

kwilk103
04-24-2009, 01:12 AM
dont forget to mention vanilla ice

TitanHope
04-24-2009, 01:15 AM
Vanilla Ice - Hip-Hop's identity crisis! ;)

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
04-24-2009, 01:19 AM
This is the only hip hop yall fools need

UlJ1jsp15xw

Mr. Hero
04-24-2009, 01:23 AM
dont forget to mention vanilla ice

His songs had the greatest message ever.

Shahin
04-24-2009, 01:33 AM
Well, I'm no expert on the subject, so when that happens, I try to think outside the box - which is long for "BS" it. :D

You're being asked to define an entire musical genre. I can go to my Rhapsody account right now, look up an artist, and it will give me a main genre, a sub-genre, and then a sub-sub-genre. Rap/Hip-Hop goes into 14 different sub-genres, ranging from Christian Rap, to East Coast/West Coast/Southern, to Lyrical, to something called "Rapcore." So when you're asked why current Hip-Hop doesn't have a defining message, it's because it has expanded and evolved so much. It's commercial, and when things go commercial, they can lose the basic roots in which they were made. Now, that's not to say Hip-Hop has lost it's history - far from it. But it can be the reason why the message gets lost. Especially when it's going to a mainstream audience from all across the globe...

Gold. Pure GOLD!

E-Man
04-24-2009, 11:11 AM
Wish this was my topic.... I gotta write a paper about how Toni Morrison victimizes women in the book The Bluest Eye....

Anyway, I wouldn't say that hip hop doesn't have a message now. It's not as politically charged, as hard-hitting, or as cultural as the message older hip hop artists gave, but regardless, there is still a message.

I mean, come on, African-Americans can only put forth so many songs showing the plight of young black people. Fact is, the times have changed (not much, but nevertheless). I strongly urge you to remember those hip hop artists who still put forth such a message (The Game, T.I. come to mind).

Additionally, rappers put out what sells. If it's the club hit that sells, that's what they'll give them. And no club hits generally do not have a message, they are written simply for the money and radio play. Can you blame rappers for this? I blame us.

I can get with that. My beef with the mainstream is lack of variation, and lack of originality. Every song can't be about the same subject matter. To quote my favorite rapper Asheru, "Why don't you talk about your life and all the lessons you learned? You can't always be in the club with money to burn. We're in the last days of time, and it's starting today. I guess your whole plan of action is to party away." That's why I like a guy like Lupe Fiasco. The dude acknowledges that he grew up in a bad neighborhood, but his songs don't reflect the cookie cutter nonsense that most rappers spew out. This guy talks about meeting girls, skateboarding, being a nerd, a little bit of politics, and he even has a song about a guy coming back from the dead zombie style. I wish that most rappers would have that variation instead of doing the same thing that whoever is hot does. But as you pointed out we are the problem. We're the ones that buy it and enable it. It's a good thing that getting access to underground music is easier now. That way we all can have our cake somewhat.