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Slope
04-23-2009, 10:26 PM
http://kan.scout.com/2/859321.html

3. The Falcons and Chiefs may not be done dealing. Per a league source, Pioli and fellow Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff (a former Patriots executive), may be looking to help each other out. Based on rumblings we're hearing from WFSM in Atlanta, the Chiefs and Falcons may still be working on a deal that could send defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey to Atlanta for the 24th overall and 90th overall selections.

http://nflnr.com/2009/04/23/rumors-keep-flying-in-kc-dorsey-included-in-gonzalez-deal/

Rumors keep flying in KC; Dorsey included in Gonzalez deal?

For the time being, feel free to put this one down as pure speculation, but Fox Sports Radio has been discussing a bit of news they’ve heard that indicates that the Chiefs have traded DT Glenn Dorsey to the Falcons along with TE Tony Gonzalez. (H/T to Adam Best at Arrowhead Addict)

Obviously that move would necessitate a return of at least the Falcons 1st round pick plus a mid rounder this year, given the fact that Dorsey was a top five pick last season, but overall it would make some sense from the perspective of both teams. The Chiefs would get another first rounder to work with, the second round pick next year, and a mid-round selection to boot. Atlanta gets a future Hall of Fame tight end and a run stuffing DT to fill a major need on their defensive line.

This is the kind of craziness we can expect to see from here on out, so be sure to stick around all weekend long for the latest news and rumors you crave.

Matthew Jones
04-23-2009, 10:29 PM
That'd be a steal for Atlanta.

TACKLE
04-23-2009, 10:29 PM
I don't think Atlanta doesn't have enough ammo to get Dorsey.

SimonRath
04-23-2009, 10:30 PM
i'm excited :)

GB12
04-23-2009, 10:30 PM
Trading the 5th overall pick from a year ago for a late first and late third would be an incredible failure by the Chiefs. Even if he's not a good fit for their new defense they can't trade Dorsey because they'd be taking too big of a loss.

Xiomera
04-23-2009, 10:31 PM
Something tells me KC wouldn't want to take the necessary cap hit.

Strongside
04-23-2009, 10:31 PM
I would like that. I wouldn't want to see Dorsey wasted in a 3-4 system. Might make their line a bit small though.

LonghornsLegend
04-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Trading the 5th overall pick from a year ago for a late first and late third would be an incredible failure by the Chiefs. Even if he's not a good fit for their new defense they can't trade Dorsey because they'd be taking too big of a loss.

Yea, that does make sense and that's my initial thoughts, but then again, what if he really is a bad fit for the 3-4 and the Chiefs realize it now? It's not like top 5 picks aren't bust quite frequently, they could either keep him and hope it works and he ends up losing a starting spot, or they capitalize on his draft stock and get a 1st and a 3rd for him now.


I think if they know in their head he's not a good fit at NT or DE ideally, then you almost have to take that 1st and 3rd, or whatever it is...Still, complete STEAL by ATL to get two top 5 picks from the 05 draft.


I would like to think the cap implications make this too hard to overcome, Dorsey is only one year in.

BaLLiN
04-23-2009, 10:40 PM
that would be epic, but he could probably still rotate in at NT, i highly doubt he couldnt play at all.

BamaFalcon59
04-23-2009, 10:40 PM
I would be so, so happy.

Despite huge needs at DE and S, and moderate needs at LB and (IMO) CB, DT is still considered a big need. Getting possibly the top player in last year's draft for a late first and a third round pick would be a brilliant move. He obviously has talent, and our defensive line coach is one of the best in the buisness.

I would go with Dorsey, and then grab the top available defensive end in round two.

Safties can be found later, and IMO DeCoud or Fudge would be at least servicable.

gpngc
04-23-2009, 10:41 PM
Anyone actually know what kind of cap hit it would actually be?

Scott Wright
04-23-2009, 10:45 PM
That would be a great deal for both teams.

BaLLiN
04-23-2009, 10:45 PM
I would be so, so happy.

Despite huge needs at DE and S, and moderate needs at LB and (IMO) CB, DT is still considered a big need. Getting possibly the top player in last year's draft for a late first and a third round pick would be a brilliant move. He obviously has talent, and our defensive line coach is one of the best in the buisness.

I would go with Dorsey, and then grab the top available defensive end in round two.

Safties can be found later, and IMO DeCoud or Fudge would be at least servicable.

well it would be following the giants layout ;) but really it would make your DL so much better and allow you to run a cover 2 system how its supposed to be. Your LB corps arent great at all but i know at least Lofton is a very active and all over the place player and this allows him to continue working freely. Your DBs will also appear alot better.

Larry121283
04-23-2009, 10:47 PM
Trading the 5th overall pick from a year ago for a late first and late third would be an incredible failure by the Chiefs. Even if he's not a good fit for their new defense they can't trade Dorsey because they'd be taking too big of a loss.

Gotta disagree here.

I see what you are saying, but completely new regime...new system in place...it happens and I wouldn't hate on the Chiefs for recouping what they can for Glenn Dorsey. A busted pick by Edwards that just doesn't fit this system.

Remember, Atlanta LOVED the kid last year and was thinking about him @ their pick. Same regime there, probably still love him. Trading #24 for Dorsey to them, is probably a steal.

superman
04-23-2009, 10:48 PM
wow, if this happened i'd wish i was a falcons fan

if the chiefs are just giving away players now, i'm sure the dolphins will take bowe

Staubach12
04-23-2009, 10:50 PM
GB12, let me tell you about these things called sunk costs...

This is not a sunk cost because Dorsey still has a lot to offer, even if he picked up some criticism his rookie year. What you might call "cutting your losses" here would actually be very stupid because the value is not nearly what it should be.

Oaktown1981
04-23-2009, 11:04 PM
How much of a cap hit would KC take for trading Dorsey??

the decider13
04-23-2009, 11:39 PM
How much of a cap hit would KC take for trading Dorsey??

I would think it would be pretty big judging by his signing bonus, but I honestly don't know much about cap hits.

This would be a great deal for the Falcons...but them down as dark horse SB candidates with Gonzo and Dorsey.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-24-2009, 12:55 AM
So, assuming that all of Dorsey's $22.5 million "guaranteed" cash is actually totally guaranteed, the rough estimate is that cutting Dorsey would cost the Chiefs 9 million dollars this year and 9 million dollar next year.

Even then, that's only 7% of Kansas City's 2009 cap and probably closer to 5% of their 2010 cap and they have tons of 2009 space to spare. They get to ship out a player who doesn't fit the direction they want to go and get two draft picks to help them move in that direction.

Not to suggest that I don't think Atlanta would be getting the better deal here. Dorsey, despite struggling in 2008, is still one of the best UT prospects in years. He could blossom in Atlanta.

yourfavestoner
04-24-2009, 03:21 AM
Something tells me KC wouldn't want to take the necessary cap hit.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

PossibleCabbage
04-24-2009, 03:24 AM
I don't see why Kansas City would want to do this, unless they're absolutely sold on the 3-4 enough to give upon Dorsey (and Dorsey's a pretty convincing argument as not to be that sold.) Sure, Dorsey struggled as a rookie, but virtually all college DTs do; it's a position with a steep learning curve when you get to the NFL, but most guys figure it out in a year or two. So basically Kansas City would be taking a huge cap hit, and giving up a player they suffered through the adjustment period of, for a couple of draft picks neither of which were particularly high.

Just doesn't make sense to me for the Chiefs.

Hokie_Pokie08
04-24-2009, 03:31 AM
Winner winner chicken dinner.

Isn't KC something ridiculous like 50 mil under the cap? I don't think they would mind a 9 mil cap hit if they are able to turn ATL's 1st round pick into a serviceable piece of what they are trying to build.

3pac
04-24-2009, 04:14 AM
I don't think the Chiefs should do this so soon. DT is a hard position to transition to from college, and Dorsey didn't FLOP his rookie year, he just didn't live up to expectations.

There's still plenty of hope for him left, he can easily be the dominant player he was hyped up to be. Giving up after one year really doesn't seem like a good plan to me, unless they've got their heart set on someone they think will be available with this year's 24th pick.

TonyGfortheTD
04-24-2009, 04:22 AM
So, assuming that all of Dorsey's $22.5 million "guaranteed" cash is actually totally guaranteed, the rough estimate is that cutting Dorsey would cost the Chiefs 9 million dollars this year and 9 million dollar next year.

Even then, that's only 7% of Kansas City's 2009 cap and probably closer to 5% of their 2010 cap and they have tons of 2009 space to spare. They get to ship out a player who doesn't fit the direction they want to go and get two draft picks to help them move in that direction.

Not to suggest that I don't think Atlanta would be getting the better deal here. Dorsey, despite struggling in 2008, is still one of the best UT prospects in years. He could blossom in Atlanta.
With the cap going away next season (unless they redo the CBA soon), the Chiefs would have to eat the 18 million cap hit the moment they moved Dorsey. There's really not a whole lot of reasons for Pioli to move Dorsey yet though, if at all.

D-Rod
04-24-2009, 04:43 AM
This would be incredible for the Falcons.

Please let this happen.

TD is the vulture over the carcass of the Chiefs...

ATLDirtyBirds
04-24-2009, 05:25 AM
That would be epic. I was a huge fan of his last year. Not to mention, we would still have #55 pick, and by Scott's mock could grab Sidbury Jr, Sean Smith, etc.

dunagan15
04-24-2009, 05:27 AM
Wow to get 2 guys in the top 5 from 08 would be nuts. Dorsey would shine in ATL

wicket
04-24-2009, 07:14 AM
I'd love to match dorsey up with ellis. They would make the most epic DT duo outside the vikes. Saints first for Dorsey straigt up, I'm in

jaa1025
04-24-2009, 07:43 AM
They want the cap hit, FYI. It's a massive 15-18 mil cap hit but they went into this off season required to spend 30 mil or so of the 45-50 mil they we're under the cap per the nfl/players association agreement. They haven't spent anything close to that and haven't reworked Cassels 14 mil 1 year contract JUST so they can keep the money on the books until they can rework it.

This trade absolutely makes sense...I would rather get better compensation than a late 1st/3rd, but I don't see it happening unless Carolina jumps into the picture with Peppers.

ChiefLee
04-24-2009, 07:52 AM
Cap shouldn't be an issue with how far the Chiefs are under the cap. Plus, I believe that since there's no collective bargaining agreement next year, currently next year is an uncapped year. (Am I wrong on this?)

Now CASH could be an issue. Trading a guy you just paid THAT much money for would hurt. And since the Chiefs won't be running a true 3-4 (they seem to be planning to run what the Cardinals ran last year which they called a 4-3 under or something like that), it's possible Dorsey will be OK in this system. BUT, if the trade is good enough, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that Pioli pulls the trigger!

T-RICH49
04-24-2009, 08:22 AM
I will punch Pioli right in his face if he makes this deal

Splat
04-24-2009, 08:26 AM
I will punch Pioli right in his face if he makes this deal

You know you keep dissing the guy and yet your avatar is a pic of him?

This trade is not going down its just talk.

bored of education
04-24-2009, 08:28 AM
It won;t happen. Kc is running the 4-3 under this year and why get rid of a guy who is a perfect fit for that scheme? The cap hit, the trade value and als othe fact that signs may be pointing towards a change yet has nto occurred makes me think this will not happen.

But time and time again I trust Pioli.

FlyingElvis
04-24-2009, 08:47 AM
That would be a great deal for both teams.

I concur. KC would then be a lock to take Raji and could still get a solid OLB/DE at 24. Then add 2 more servicable players with the 2 3rd round picks and still have a first & 2 seconds next year. On top of that, if jaa1025 is correct, the Chiefs get help with the salary issues.

The benefit to Atlanta is obvious.

ChiefMojo
04-24-2009, 09:14 AM
Everyone makes some compelling cases, but this is the reason why it might happen.

1) First off Glen Dorsey was selected at the #5 pick to be a 4-3 DT. That is his value at that position. In the 3-4, he fits neither as a NT or a DE. At this moment he isn't even starting for KC. Tank Tyler is expected to be the starting NT and Dorsey more than likely won't be starting at one of the DE spots. So at best he is a part time starter making #5 money.

2) The Chiefs are still something like 30+ million under the cap. I believe Dorsey's cap hit would be something like $15-million. They have the cap space to do something like this.

3) Sure the Chiefs can hold on to him and hope he works out in the 3-4, but what happens if he busts? Now your paying a guy that doesn't deserve the money and you blew your chance at getting back good compensation. You have to look at the big picture.

It is the same reason the Chiefs traded TG. Sure he is still quite talented, but it is good business to get something of high quality now, instead of holding on to him and watch him devalue further. Also Gonzo wanted out so he could win a Super Bowl.

4) Getting a suppose 1st and 3rd for Dorsey allows KC to get more talent that fit their new system of needs. Also that 2010 2nd rounder can be packaged in somewhere with another pick or so for another high selection.

- So to close, yes it is a head scratcher to see the Chiefs give up on Dorsey this early, but they also have to do what is best for their team presently and in the future. They just can't hold onto just because they paid a lot of money for him.

killxswitch
04-24-2009, 10:24 AM
Doesn't the argument about him not fitting the 3-4 lose something since Pendergast's 4-3 under system isn't THAT close to a "real" 3-4?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-24-2009, 12:21 PM
If Atlanta makes this deal, they're probably 3 years away from contending for the NFC title/SB.
I don't even know if Ryan needs another big time WR or if he's set with their current group.

This assumes, of course, that Dorsey is legit and not a tease at DT.

killxswitch
04-24-2009, 12:26 PM
If Atlanta makes this deal, they're probably 3 years away from contending for the NFC title/SB.
I don't even know if Ryan needs another big time WR or if he's set with their current group.

This assumes, of course, that Dorsey is legit and not a tease at DT.

Why 3 years? I wouldn't be shocked if they got to the NFCCG in '09.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Why 3 years? I wouldn't be shocked if they got to the NFCCG in '09.

Only because I think Matt Ryan needs at least a couple more seasons to be fully in control of Atlanta's offense and at least another go 'round against NFL defenses who are going to game-plan specifically to beat HIM.

killxswitch
04-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Only because I think Matt Ryan needs at least a couple more seasons to be fully in control of Atlanta's offense and at least another go 'round against NFL defenses who are going to game-plan specifically to beat HIM.

I disagree. Unless he seriously regresses or the defense takes a couple steps back it would appear to me they should be expected to at least make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs next year.

They have some pretty high-quality players on both sides of the ball, with the addition of Tony G and a good draft I don't know who else has a significantly better shot in the NFC.

3pac
04-24-2009, 12:56 PM
I disagree. Unless he seriously regresses or the defense takes a couple steps back it would appear to me they should be expected to at least make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs next year.

They have some pretty high-quality players on both sides of the ball, with the addition of Tony G and a good draft I don't know who else has a significantly better shot in the NFC.

Agreed. They have a strong shot at a deep playoff run next year if Matt Ryan lives up to his sophomore year potential.

Crickett
04-24-2009, 01:01 PM
I just heard they're looking to trade Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson and Brandon Albert to Atlanta. And the third overall pick. That'll be going to Atlanta too.

bored of education
04-24-2009, 01:03 PM
I just heard they're looking to trade Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson and Brandon Albert to Atlanta. And the third overall pick. That'll be going to Atlanta too.

For the rights to Vick?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Hilarious, Cricket.

I hope you can hear me laughing.

indyfan1985
04-24-2009, 01:24 PM
PLEASE NOOOOO!!!!! Stop helping the freakin Falcons!!! Why are the Colts not in the mix to trade for Dorsey as he would fit their system PERFECTLY plus we could give them the 27th overall and 2nd next year to get him.

indyfan1985
04-24-2009, 01:25 PM
Trading the 5th overall pick from a year ago for a late first and late third would be an incredible failure by the Chiefs. Even if he's not a good fit for their new defense they can't trade Dorsey because they'd be taking too big of a loss.

I agree they should ask more than just a late 1st round and 3rd round pick. Dorsey was a stud prospect from last year's draft.

killxswitch
04-24-2009, 01:33 PM
PLEASE NOOOOO!!!!! Stop helping the freakin Falcons!!! Why are the Colts not in the mix to trade for Dorsey as he would fit their system PERFECTLY plus we could give them the 27th overall and 2nd next year to get him.

I"m afraid we don't have the cap space. I'd love to have Dorsey, more than any DT in this draft for sure.

3pac
04-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Maybe we'll get Peria Jerry :)

killxswitch
04-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Maybe we'll get Peria Jerry :)

I'd still rather have Dorsey, but would be thrilled with Jerry as well.

DeepThreat
04-24-2009, 01:51 PM
I could actually see this happening. Dorsey doesn't fit the 3-4 the Chiefs want to implement (even if they don't this year, they will in the future, and his value will never be any higher) and they are so far under the cap the hit isn't even relevant. If all of his $22.5 million is signing bonus (not likely) it would be an $18 million (I don't know where the $9 million this year and in 2010 came from) cap hit, leaving them with about $30 million under.