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proshoota25
04-25-2009, 08:11 PM
What are your thoughts so far?

BradysKnee
04-25-2009, 08:28 PM
I like the depth this provides. I think Jason Taylor is a given now.

BradysKnee
04-25-2009, 08:29 PM
Wtf happened there. Sorry, said I had to wait and I did, then BAM. lol.

Nalej
04-25-2009, 08:30 PM
I have a headache.

We reached on Chung @ 34- over Rey and Brown!
Brace @ 40- adds depth. Still no OLB or ILB
Butler @ 41- I like for depth again.
OT- I like @ 58 but we still haven't addressed out LB situation.

1st day isn't over yet but all the OLB prospects I liked are gone. I'm frustrated.
S. Crable better be ready to go.

BradysKnee
04-25-2009, 08:33 PM
I have a headache.

We reached on Chung @ 34- over Rey and Brown!
Brace @ 40- adds depth. Still no OLB or ILB
Butler @ 41- I like for depth again.
OT- I like @ 58 but we still haven't addressed out LB situation.

1st day isn't over yet but all the OLB prospects I liked are gone. I'm frustrated.
S. Crable better be ready to go.

Chung would've been gone had they waited. I think it was wise to make the pick there.

Brace I Like alot, Wilfork won't stay healthy forever.

Butler, LOVE IT. He will be a huge playmaker.

I question the OT, but, depth was needed.

I think we'll see Beckwith or someone to us in rd 3, and some OLB depth. They must have alot of faith in Crable, and/or getting Taylor.

Nalej
04-25-2009, 08:57 PM
J. Taylor better be looking up Houses For Sale in the Foxborough area

cdf_2108
04-25-2009, 09:02 PM
pretty dissapointed...love butler, kinda like chung, but im' bummed we didn't use some of our 3rd rounders to lever up and get sintim/barwin/maualuga....

don't know if taylor is a done deal...

sebastian vollmer was rated as a free agent prospect and we pick him in the 2nd round? wtf?

Wootylicous
04-25-2009, 09:31 PM
Really like our draft so far outside of vollmer...

Bradyjackson12
04-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Signing J. Taylor isn't a given and even if he is signed, he isn't a long term answer, drafting an OLB in the second round considering the depth of this draft class was primordial. I just can't see how they could see Chung as a high 2nd round pick. He is a unidimensional safety that is a liability against the pass.

I have no problem with the Butler's pick considering what we received for trading down even though i preferred Vontae Davis.

However trading up to reach on Brace who's never gonna be more than a backup for Wilfork is just stupid. Now this pick can only make the signing of Wilfork harder.

At this point I thought that things would improve for the last pick but i was actually even more upset by the Vollmer pick. Who is this guy? a potential undrafted free agent who could develop into a starter at RT? What's worse William Beatty was still on the board...

I think we're probably going to see a draft that will look like the big flop of 2007.

We must wait and see what is going to happen because Belichick has proved over the last decade that he is pretty good in the draft but i don't understand why he continues to reach on guy like Matt Slater last year and those guy this year.

What i was hoping for was

33. Darius Butler
41. Connor Barwin
47. William Beatty(i would never have traded with the Raiders)
58. Sean Smith or Jarron Gilbert
Sean Smith to play FS alongside Merriweather, he is not ready yet but he has a lot of potential and Gilbert simply to provide depth on our DL with somebody that could really have an impact.

If the patriots really wanted to get a Harrison type safety, I think a guy like Nic Harris later in the draft would have be a perfect fit. they both have that same sort of swagger.

ElectricEye
04-25-2009, 10:44 PM
Ew. That's really most of what I have to say. Extremely weak. I hope I'm wrong, but I really think some of the moves were outright stupid and we passed up some talent.

Nalej
04-25-2009, 10:47 PM
Ew. That's really most of what I have to say. Extremely weak. I hope I'm wrong, but I really think some of the moves were outright stupid and we passed up some talent.


Pretty much sums it up

Xenos
04-26-2009, 12:18 AM
Video on Sebastian Vollmer:

http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/dgtv_1/sebastian_vollmer_-_ot_-_houston/

the decider13
04-26-2009, 12:27 AM
Just wonder what you guys think of grabbing Brace...think that means the pats won't resign Wilfork if they like what they see? Cause it is gonna be hard to afford Wilfork and Seymour.

thetedginnshow
04-26-2009, 02:02 AM
I have to say I'm really mad you guys got Chung. I love him. I hope you bury him on the depth chart or something.

HellonEarth84
04-26-2009, 02:49 AM
No one we drafted will even play much this year, and maybe even next.

They're all back ups.

We just re-signed James Sanders, and now drafted Chung with our first pick.

Brace will be a career back up behind Wilfork.
Butler has potential but will probably be behind Bodden/Hobbs/Springs/Wheatley/Wilhite in his first year. He can return kicks though.

I dont know. I don't HATE it, but I wanted a Linebacker.

We are one injury away from having a D-Grade at LB. Adalius Thomas and Mayo are good. I hope this means Jason Taylor is going to be a Pat. but even then, its not like Taylor or Thomas are young anymore...

ElectricEye
04-26-2009, 07:24 AM
We passed on Rey Maualuga in the SECOND round. I actually really like the Chung pick, but come on. Three years down the line that decision might not look so great. Butler is a really good pick, but Brace confuses the **** out of me. Assuming we sign Wilfork next year(we'll tag him if we can't) he won't be anything more than a backup for us. Nose tackles are always a good find and Brace is a true nose tackle, but we passed up Everette Brown, Clint Sintim, and Connor Barwin for him. Is that really worth it? Who do we have to work with as far as OLB's go right now? The Vollmer pick is the one people are complaining about the most but I actually don't mind it a heck of a lot. He's a really, really good athlete and his upside is through the roof. He's a bit older, but that's going to mean he'll reach his potential a bit quicker. Should start at right tackle for us right away and be a damn good one for five year. Still, this draft really kind of sucks. We got players that fit our system. This much is true. But we also passed up a lot of talent to get some guys that aren't going to start for us for long. I'm disappointed that we dicked around as much as we did this year. Belicheck's trick work when you don't have a defense that's aging rapidly and has problem rushing the passer. Butler and Chung are legit pieces, but passing on a pass rusher or even a linebacker is a major mistake.

AntoinCD
04-26-2009, 07:44 AM
When the Broncos took Ayers at 18 I was happy. When the Lions took Pettigrew I was very happy. When the Vikings took Harvin I was pretty much jumping around. I mean Oher, Maualuga and Brown where still there. Then I understand the first trade and at a push the second. The only thing that can be made of it is obviously Belichick didn't think either Brown or Maualuga where fits in the system

sdotcarter33
04-26-2009, 08:11 AM
I was truly at a loss for words yesterday and still am this morning. I don't mind Butler and Chung, its more so the players we had passed on. I think Butler could be an above average corner in this league however he will probably be buried on the depth chart this season behind the likes of spring/bodden/hobbs and the guys drafted last year . With that being said i do not question BB's scouting ability, esp. on the defensive side of the ball. I don't know about the rest of you but I myself know nothing about the OT we drafted. If BB wanted a T so bad why not take Oher at 23. I would have loved that pick. start Oher at RT eventually switching him to LT...im tired of seeing Light getting man handled by speed rushers.

Heading in to this draft i think most fans could agree that a LB was one of if not the biggest need for this team. We have not addressed that. God forbid Thomas or Mayo get injured and have to miss a period of time - even if we land jason taylor.

I just don't understand.....lets see what day 2 brings us.

I give the Pats a day 1 grade of C-

FlyingElvis
04-26-2009, 08:38 AM
Ouch. I like the guys we got but question their draft position and really hate the guys we passed on.

Several talented guys went by in the LB core. As mentioned, we seem to be thin at LB. BBand the staff must by very high on Guyton & Crable.

hannah73
04-26-2009, 09:12 AM
I was truly at a loss for words yesterday and still am this morning. I don't mind Butler and Chung, its more so the players we had passed on. I think Butler could be an above average corner in this league however he will probably be buried on the depth chart this season behind the likes of spring/bodden/hobbs and the guys drafted last year . With that being said i do not question BB's scouting ability, esp. on the defensive side of the ball. I don't know about the rest of you but I myself know nothing about the OT we drafted. If BB wanted a T so bad why not take Oher at 23. I would have loved that pick. start Oher at RT eventually switching him to LT...im tired of seeing Light getting man handled by speed rushers.

Heading in to this draft i think most fans could agree that a LB was one of if not the biggest need for this team. We have not addressed that. God forbid Thomas or Mayo get injured and have to miss a period of time - even if we land jason taylor.

I just don't understand.....lets see what day 2 brings us.

I give the Pats a day 1 grade of C-


They must be very high on Crable, Redd, Woods, TBC. Realistically no rookie could do as well as those guys most likely. Maul. and Oher....both are not known for intelligence. Oher needs a lot of reps to learn the playbook, has a learning disability..not to be mean but that might not fit here.

Nalej
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
I guess all I can say as far as day 1 is:
I don't mind WHO we drafted- just WHERE we drafted and who we PASSED on
You telling me we couldn't of grabbed that OT in the 3rd? 4th? *shrug*

ElectricEye
04-26-2009, 01:14 PM
We're dicking around way too much. We need the talent this year, not depth like others. Can't afford to be doing this. Maybe I'm just not enough of a football god to see the brilliance in passing on talented players that fit our scheme, but I just have a hard time defending trading into next years draft every single year.


All that said, I love the Tate pick. He could be an absolute stud for us if he's healthy. Instant impact player and he'll probably start at the slot for us this year. I suppose by that logic we've landed three starters in this draft, but we could have had even more....

Nalej
04-26-2009, 01:25 PM
I do like the trade of our 3rds for next years 2nds.
Essentially, we traded our 1st for 3 2nds

I don't like us trading E. Hobbs for 2 FIFTH rd picks?
That's the best we could get fom him? Or were we just trying to dump him?
And... I don't see our selections in THIS years draft.
Are they 2 2010 5th rd picks????

AntoinCD
04-26-2009, 02:30 PM
I do like the trade of our 3rds for next years 2nds.
Essentially, we traded our 1st for 3 2nds

I don't like us trading E. Hobbs for 2 FIFTH rd picks?
That's the best we could get fom him? Or were we just trying to dump him?
And... I don't see our selections in THIS years draft.
Are they 2 2010 5th rd picks????

2 5ths this year that we traded to Baltimore for Ohrnberger

Nalej
04-26-2009, 02:58 PM
We traded E. Hobbs (Starting CB/KR Specialist) for Ohrnberger (OG)--????

AntoinCD
04-26-2009, 03:15 PM
We traded E. Hobbs (Starting CB/KR Specialist) for Ohrnberger (OG)--????

I agree it is a little strange but in all reality we traded out 4th or 5th CB and #2 KR(after Tate) for a project guard. With Bodden, Springs, Butler, Wheatley etc Hobbs wouldn't see much time this year.

BradysKnee
04-26-2009, 03:50 PM
I love the Hobbs trade, I've thought he's terrible for awhile, it clears up 2.5 mil in cap space immediately. Plus, he was in a contract year, and likely not have been resigned. This will give Butler Wheatley and Wilhite more playing time and gives us awesome youth at CB.

Nalej
04-26-2009, 04:28 PM
We sure are suring up that OL.

F. Joseph please!!!

proshoota25
04-26-2009, 05:57 PM
im just so mad. belichick is just throwing away our last few picks..... 3 dts? 3 ol? why not just trade up the picks to get higher in rounds 2 or 3 instead of throwing away your picks

Wootylicous
04-26-2009, 10:41 PM
I liked this draft. Really liked Brandon Tate. a lot.

Don Vito
04-26-2009, 10:50 PM
im just so mad. belichick is just throwing away our last few picks..... 3 dts? 3 ol? why not just trade up the picks to get higher in rounds 2 or 3 instead of throwing away your picks

I really like the Myron Pryor pick, but I am puzzled with the Richard selection. We already added to our NT depth with Brace and Pryor, which I love, but I think Richard was not needed.

The OL I can see I guess. I love the Vollmer pick but I really don't know too much about the other guys.

This was not a very flashy draft, but it was smart and will definitely improve the team a lot especially when you consider the money we saved for FA next year with those trades. Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate are all gamers. I am suprised we didn't look at LB harder, but I guess BB has a lot of faith in who we already have. The McKenzie pick suprised me, he seems pretty similar to Guyton but he is a solid LB so I'm happy with it.

ElectricEye
04-26-2009, 11:11 PM
Yeah. Look to the future. Screw talent. Let's get older. I know I have no right to ***** but honestly look at this draft class. Just really doesn't make much sense.

Wootylicous
04-26-2009, 11:20 PM
Meh this draft class was nothing special I dislike trading down but getting like 3 2nd for next year is awesome!

nhlkdog411
04-26-2009, 11:28 PM
I like the chung pick but we could have gotten him later...The big tackle from Houston I like too (im way overtired and i can't remember his name right now)...we really needed to get an olb like Barwin or Brown though I dunno wtf that was all about.

HellonEarth84
04-26-2009, 11:40 PM
Chung will be solid, but isn't exactly a HUGE upgrade over Sanders.

I think he brings more aggression than Sanders and plays better in space.

BB probably liked Chungs leadership, experience (started 51 games in College), and good character.

Don Vito
04-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Well now I can start hoping that we take Brandon Graham in 2010. I can't believe we passed on Everette Brown and Maualuga multiple times, but we can't do anything about it now. I love the additions of Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate. We added some quality DL depth, two future starting DBs, a very athletic linebacker, a lot of OL depth, and an explosive young wideout. We didn't get the top flight pass rusher that we all wanted, but we have some youth and talent in the LB corps already and we need those young guys to develop/stay healthy. We are legitimate contenders if we can avoid the injury bug.

HellonEarth84
04-26-2009, 11:43 PM
I like the Tyrone McKenzie pick a lot.

I'm glad BB added another Linebacker.

We're one injury away from having the worst LB Corps in the league.... Adding JTaylor is a must now.

Don Vito
04-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Chung will be solid, but isn't exactly a HUGE upgrade over Sanders.

I think he brings more aggression than Sanders and plays better in space.

I like Sanders, he is a tough and smart player but I think Chung is a big-time upgrade. Chung is a lot more athletic, is a much bigger hitter, and is a playmaker. Sanders is a solid player but he isn't a fiery gamechanger like Chung, plus Sanders gets exposed due to his lack of top athleticism a lot. Sanders just got resigned and he will still make an impact, we will run a lot of 3 safety sets and he will be on the field a lot. I love the Chung pick, he is a stud.

hannah73
04-27-2009, 02:06 AM
No OLB they draft this year would probably be better than Crable, Redd, etc.

Kind of surprised they didn't draft Maulauga but they know he wouldn't fit maybe. Plus character issues.

Most of their picks are great. Vollmer could be like Marcus McNeil...very athletic guy, moves very well.

Hobbs leaving is addition by subtraction..where were they going to play this guy? KR anyone can run it out to the twenty.

Kindn of surprised they didn't go for Jarron Gilbert either. Seymour is going to need a replacement soon....plus their 4th round guard...why trade up for an UdFA? those guys are a dime a dozen.

HellonEarth84
04-27-2009, 03:55 AM
I like Sanders, he is a tough and smart player but I think Chung is a big-time upgrade. Chung is a lot more athletic, is a much bigger hitter, and is a playmaker. Sanders is a solid player but he isn't a fiery gamechanger like Chung, plus Sanders gets exposed due to his lack of top athleticism a lot. Sanders just got resigned and he will still make an impact, we will run a lot of 3 safety sets and he will be on the field a lot. I love the Chung pick, he is a stud.

Thanks for explaining that... Ive been checking his videos from Oregon and the Senior Bowl and youre right, Chung is a LOT more athletic. He was even returning kicks at the Senior Bowl

ElectricEye
04-27-2009, 07:49 AM
No OLB they draft this year would probably be better than Crable, Redd, etc.

So no linebackers from an extremely deep and talented class at that position would be better than a third round pick that didn't play a down last year and an undrafted free agent? I just can't accept that.

As far as Chung goes, he's a major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is a depth player and the staff knows it. We were never comfortable with him starting. He'll get his tackles, but they aren't really meaningful. Good backup and special teamer, not a guy you should be comfortable with starting. He's a smart, heady, athletic player. He enrolled in college when he was 16. Didn't play right away like Okoye, but still you gotta be impressed.

nepg
04-27-2009, 08:59 AM
I really like the Myron Pryor pick, but I am puzzled with the Richard selection. We already added to our NT depth with Brace and Pryor, which I love, but I think Richard was not needed.

The OL I can see I guess. I love the Vollmer pick but I really don't know too much about the other guys.

This was not a very flashy draft, but it was smart and will definitely improve the team a lot especially when you consider the money we saved for FA next year with those trades. Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, McKenzie, and Tate are all gamers. I am suprised we didn't look at LB harder, but I guess BB has a lot of faith in who we already have. The McKenzie pick suprised me, he seems pretty similar to Guyton but he is a solid LB so I'm happy with it.
Richard is a DE for the Pats. Pryor was a confusing pick after Brace with Smith and Adams already on the roster (identical players). That was one of the few picks I just didn't like at all.

Bussey was an amazing value. He could take Neal's job. Vollmer is a monster, and was severely underrated. He was not rated as an UDFA by anyone with a clue. The G/C they got replaces Hochstein probably.

Never really thought the Pats needed more than one LB in this draft (OLB or ILB because of their versatility), and they got a really good ILB in McKenzie at a great value spot.

I loved the 2nd round. Chung, Butler, Brace, and Vollmer...they hit on every one of those. They completed their needs by drafting Brandon Tate, who could end up being as good as any WR in this draft.

I did hate trading Hobbs. Essentially trading him for that G/C... I didn't like that one. If they'd kept both 5's and used them wisely, I would've been good with it.

As far as James Sanders goes... It's tough to say any S aside from Ed Reed is much of an upgrade over him because he's got all the tools, but just hasn't put it all together yet... I think Chung is only a slight upgrade, ability-wise, but I think he's got it together a little better. They needed a guy like Chung anyway so they can keep Meriweather at nickel in passing situations.

ElectricEye
04-27-2009, 09:09 AM
As far as James Sanders goes... It's tough to say any S aside from Ed Reed is much of an upgrade over him because he's got all the tools, but just hasn't put it all together yet... I think Chung is only a slight upgrade, ability-wise, but I think he's got it together a little better. They needed a guy like Chung anyway so they can keep Meriweather at nickel in passing situations.

Merriweather won't be playing nickel with all the corners we've brought in. That was part of the deal with bringing in Butler.

Chung is a pretty major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is ideally a depth player. I wouldn't say he has all the tools at all. He's pretty much league average across the board.

FlyingElvis
04-27-2009, 09:55 AM
We will need to see a solid improvement out of Woods, Crable, Guyton and even Redd this year or everyone will second guess this draft. Too many solid OLB & ILB options were passed at draft spots that would have been great value for Pats fans to forgive a missed stud in a few years. Especially if the guys we go into this season with don't pan out.

I still like the picks we have. Chung, Butler and Brace have the ability to be studs with some coaching. Vollmer is an absolute mountain of a man and I can't complain about a reach at the end of round 2 with our 4th pick of the day.

Adding Tate & McKenzie made a big difference yesterday. Everyone after that is a step away from being cut anyway, so I'm ok with loading up on big men and keeping whoever looks like they could have value down the line.

Trading Hobbs was stupid. I know a few of you really don't like him much, but when was the last time we didn't go through our entire depth chart + Troy Brown at CB? Giving up the only true known value on the roster at such a valuable position is absolutely asisine, imo - especially since I can't remember the last season we didn't have at least one CB on IR. I understand it gives more development time to the young guys, but why change the old method of working the young guys in as the earn it?

nepg
04-27-2009, 10:28 AM
Merriweather won't be playing nickel with all the corners we've brought in. That was part of the deal with bringing in Butler.

Chung is a pretty major upgrade over Sanders. Sanders is ideally a depth player. I wouldn't say he has all the tools at all. He's pretty much league average across the board.

Merriweather's still better than their 3rd CB as the Nickel. And him being in there with two other safeties brings too much value and versatility to the defense.

Sanders is an average starter at safety in the NFL (which isn't good enough for the Patriots, obviously). He has ideal size, speed, athleticism, tackling ability, and ball skills. He just, for whatever reason, hasn't taken that next step to being a very good NFL starter at safety.

I like the things the Pats will be able to do with Merriweather, Sanders, and Chung. I think we'll see them in there together a lot this year.

Jay
04-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Were there guys I would have rather had? Sure. But how can anyone not be stoked about this draft? We completely replenished the offensive and defensive lines, added a guy who I have seen called "a young Brian Dawkins" and added a corner who Bill Belichick calls "the best defensive back prospect I've ever seen."

On top of that, we added TWO second round picks for 2010, all while still taking SIX players in the first two rounds, which by the way, is what we went into the draft with.

Ron Brace is going to be a huge pick. Vince Wilfork was begging for help. He is going to be a major space eater when the Pats go into a 4-3 and will let Jarvis Green, Richard Seymour and Mike Wright stick at the end where they belong.

We could have taken Darius Butler at 23 and no one would have batted an eyelash. We got him at 41, and in doing so, we allowed to move back and essentially add two second rounders in 2010, because we got 41 and two 3rds from Green Bay in that trade and the two thirds allowed gave us four and the freedom to flip two.

This is why the Patriots continue to contend every single year. If you have ever followed this team, you know damn well that Belichick is going to draft his kind of guys. Obviously that is what he thinks he got. The depth on this team should be astounding, and you know what? If they bring in Jason Taylor next, it's going to be icing on the cake.

I thought the Pats pretty much gave a clinic on how to do business on draft day to be honest. Love it.

Don Vito
04-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Sanders is an average starter at safety in the NFL (which isn't good enough for the Patriots, obviously). He has ideal size, speed, athleticism, tackling ability, and ball skills. He just, for whatever reason, hasn't taken that next step to being a very good NFL starter at safety.


Sanders lacks speed. He is a smart player but he does not have the athleticism you look for in a starting NFL safety, and that has led to him being exposed in coverage on numerous occassions. He is very tough against the run and is just a tough player period, but he is nothing better than an average starter. Chung is a big-time upgrade as a starter, but Sanders could still play a big role.

Don Vito
04-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Were there guys I would have rather had? Sure. But how can anyone not be stoked about this draft? We completely replenished the offensive and defensive lines, added a guy who I have seen called "a young Brian Dawkins" and added a corner who Bill Belichick calls "the best defensive back prospect I've ever seen."

On top of that, we added TWO second round picks for 2010, all while still taking SIX players in the first two rounds, which by the way, is what we went into the draft with.

Ron Brace is going to be a huge pick. Vince Wilfork was begging for help. He is going to be a major space eater when the Pats go into a 4-3 and will let Jarvis Green, Richard Seymour and Mike Wright stick at the end where they belong.

We could have taken Darius Butler at 23 and no one would have batted an eyelash. We got him at 41, and in doing so, we allowed to move back and essentially add two second rounders in 2010, because we got 41 and two 3rds from Green Bay in that trade and the two thirds allowed gave us four and the freedom to flip two.

This is why the Patriots continue to contend every single year. If you have ever followed this team, you know damn well that Belichick is going to draft his kind of guys. Obviously that is what he thinks he got. The depth on this team should be astounding, and you know what? If they bring in Jason Taylor next, it's going to be icing on the cake.

I thought the Pats pretty much gave a clinic on how to do business on draft day to be honest. Love it.

Good seeing you back Jay! I agree that there could've been some personal preferences at certain picks, but the draft as a whole was a great success in my opinion.

FlyingElvis
04-27-2009, 11:46 AM
I agree it was a solid draft. Hopefully the combination of Chung and more experienced young LBs will be enough to get our defense off the field when we get into 3rd and 15 situations this season.


The 2 picks next year are very intriguing. We get the 2nd round pick of Tenn & Jax, so it's two teams from the same division, which just happens to be the toughest division in football right now. On top of that, we get to play both of them this year. My only concern is that the AFC South is matched up with the AFC East & NFC West so aside from NE, AZ, and Seattle the competition is lacking. Maybe Miami is for real . . . but I doubt it. SF, Buff, NYJ and the Rams are far from scary.

ElectricEye
04-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Dude, Jay's back! Sweet! Stick around man, it isn't as bad these days.

I won't pretend to argue the draft wasn't a successful one and that we added a ton of depth...but it's very frustrating to see those guys get passed up. If we have pass rushing problems midseason it really won't look nearly as good drafting for depth.

AntoinCD
04-27-2009, 12:40 PM
With a day removed im actually starting to kinda like this draft. Obviously BB had concerns over Maualuga's ability to play 3 downs which are fair concerns and it's up to Rey to prove people wrong next year. If Brown isn't able to play in space there is no point in drafting him let alone day one-he went to the best fit IMO with his hand in the ground. I was honestly a little diasppointed we didn't take Oher at 23. However looking at our picks, Chung is a nice upgrade over Sanders and will let Merriweather play free safety next year(which he is better suited to), Brace unfortunately probably signals an end to Wilfork's Pats career next year but it's better to have a replacement now rather than next year, if we had selected Butler at 23 not many people would have argued with the pick but at 41 it is great value and he'll challenge for a starting slot in training camp, honestly I knew nothing of Vollmer but he has great size and from a few things I've read recently he has a bit of upside and could start 2010 or 2011, I love the Tate pick for the future. He is not needed to play this year with Moss, Welker, Galloway and Lewis but could turn into a real threat. I had read a while ago that BB liked Tyrone McKenzie and I liked the pick. I probably would've preferred Jason Phillips at that stage but that is just nitpicking. The thing I love with this draft is the two extra 2nds we got. Tennessee and Jacksonville both play in a division with the Colts and the vastly improved Texans so hopefully at least one of them will be a high second and so far it looks like the quality next year will greatly outweigh this year. Obviously its pure speculation at the moment but if the Patriots could get the ammo to go up next year and take someone like Greg Hardy in the first then it will prove to be a very good move

FlyingElvis
04-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Just listening to BBs presser from yesterday and he is asked about the OLB position. His response was basically that the available players were short and slow. He mentioned specifically that there were no 6'4 or 6'5 guys and more power guys w/no speed guys. Interesting, especially since he then drafted the 6'0 McKenzie.

nepg
04-27-2009, 02:20 PM
McKenzie's an ILB in New England.

FlyingElvis
04-27-2009, 02:28 PM
McKenzie's an ILB in New England.

Right. Forgot that while I was listening.

Jay
04-27-2009, 03:07 PM
I think he's just systematically rebuilding everything. There are a lot of guys coming up for contracts on both sides of the line and he's infused a wealth of depth to both positions. He's building from the bottom up. Both sides of the line each had one "super sub" (Wright/Hochstein) and then a bunch of guys. OK well there was Jarvis Green but he had a specific role, so I digress. Either way, by bringing in all these guys, Ryan O'Callahan getting healthy, the depth at those positions went from a C- to at least a B on paper.

You look at WR and DB and the depth was good enough to let Jabar Gaffney walk to Oakland and then kick Ellis Hobbs to Philly. Yeah, we need at least one more impact LB, but we have quality NFL players across the board at that position and as Belichick stated, he didn't feel "that guy" was there (or attainable, because I am sure he would have taken Curry in a heartbeat).

I thought Rey Rey would be a good pick, but at the same time, he kind of scared me. I trust Belichick pretty much unconditionally. If he was willing and able to pass on him that many times, he wasn't worth it. Everette Brown was rumored to go as high as top 10. He slid to where he did for a reason. We can get by with what we have at the LB position this year, and a one year stop-gap like Jason Taylor would further accentuate that point.

Next year, we have the bullets in the gun to essentially get who we want. Brandon Spikes? Mark Herzlich? Sergio Kindle? Lots of options.

As far as being "back," I think any posting I do will be around these parts. :p

I just figured I'd check in and say yo.

cdf_2108
04-27-2009, 04:32 PM
Brace unfortunately probably signals an end to Wilfork's Pats career next year but it's better to have a replacement now rather than next year

I liked your post but I really don't think we'll let Wilfork go...I think it's a lot more likely we let Seymour go. We gave Seymour his big contract during his prime and I think we'll do the same for Wilfork.

Ron Brace gives us some much needed depth at the position, Mike Wright isn't a true run stopping NT like Wilfork or Brace and we saw that quite clearly when Wilfork was out.

I think the Patriots will resign him during the season and break the bank for him, there just isn't the cap space to do it now. Besides, the patriots are in the top 5 (maybe top 3?) of richest organizations so if we go to an uncapped year, you can bet that Kraft will not hesitate to reward, arguably, our best defensive player in the prime of his career.

nepg
04-27-2009, 04:43 PM
Ya, I don't think Brace means the end of Wilfork. There was an interview with Wilfork where he basically said it was a done deal that he'd be in New England the rest of his career. He's not going to demand an insane contract. He's not interested in being Albert Haynesworth, which is why the Pats drafted him in the first place.

The Pats drafted Brace because they needed true depth at NT, and they think Brace (6'3) can also play DE in their 3-4. I think Brace is more insurance against Seymour than insurance against Wilfork - if anything. He's a cheap, high-end back-up, and he was one of the few truly unique talents in this draft...

Bigburt63
04-27-2009, 05:47 PM
I am gonna drink the BB kool-aid on this one. I liked Chung alot, but we may have been able to get him later (all speculation though). Brace is a great rotational guy, Butler could develop into a stud and its no secret that BB loves(d) him. The more I see and read about Vollemer the more I like him, regardless of being a reach or not. The pats always reach for players that they feel fit their system, thats just what they do. Tate could be a very solid performer and could develop into a stud if/when healthy. McKenzie reminds me of Guyton in some respects in that he is smaller but athletic. The remaining picks are depth/developmental OL or DL guys that may or may not make the roster.

Nalej
04-27-2009, 06:19 PM
With a day removed im actually starting to kinda like this draft.

Me too. I'm still upset about not getting an OLB.
I love Chung and Butler. Our 2-ary should be hella better.
Along with the addition of Springs and Bodden.
Brace is nice for depth. I hope he isn't our future replacement though
I love the B. Tate pick. KR and a future star @ WR, IMO
I still don't like the OT pick. I don't mind the player and the position
but I feel that it was too high of a reach.
I'll give credit to BB- last OL he reached on seemed pretty good
but until he's our starting RT- I'll continue to dislike this pick.
I love the McKenzie pick- though I would've liked other prospect over him
I don't agree with drafting a LS. Don't care if it was a late rd pick.
Absolutely love the fact that we received 2 2nd rd picks next year.

Overall, not bad. If Crable steps up and has a nice year for us then I'll like this draft a whole lot more.

ElectricEye
04-27-2009, 08:29 PM
I don't love the draft but I'm coming around at least a little bit. I think we got three impact players in Tate, Chung and Butler. Vollmer has a chance to be an absolute stud right from the get go as well. It'll take some coaching, but he was extremely underrated. No reason he should have had to wait until the 5th round. There's a lot to like with those guys. It's dissapointing to see the rest basically being for depth picks when we probably could have gotten a few more serious players and loaded up...but I suppose that's the way we operate.

nepg
04-28-2009, 07:56 AM
There were a 4 depth picks (Bussey & Ohrnberger, Pryor & Richard), and one project pick (Edelman), but the rest are (future) high-end starters with high floors, and high-ceiling potential. I liked the LS pick. It's not uncommon for teams to draft these guys nowadays, and the Pats got one of the best ones to come out of college in a long time. Why rely on UDFA's/FA's to fill a position that will stay filled by the same person for 10+ years?

bhyg
04-28-2009, 09:07 AM
I absolutely loved the way the PATS handles the draft. Getting two 2's next year is HUGE.

Anyone who doesn't absolutely love Chung has never seen him. He's a smart hard hitting, athletic safety with a non stop motor. He has a lot of experience and was a team captain and leader. BB loves all those attributes...by the way so do I.

Brace is more than just a career back up. He will play in our short yardage and goal line packages and give Wilfork a rest throughout the game. That keep Wilfork fresher (and Brace as well) while also greatly improving your short yardage packages. I liked Brinkley for the same reasons...short yardage packages. The PATS liked McKenzie better. I also like McKenzie a lot. McKenzie is not 6'0" he's just shy of 6'3" and was super productive even when he was forced to jump from school to school. Let him have some stability in coaching and family issues and he will be worked into the ILB rotation in a year.

Butler is the guy I wanted in round one. I can't remember ever seeing a prospec that had a 43 1/2 verticle jump. He isn't afriad to support the run and has smooth transition. He will be real good. Our DB's got a lot more athletic and physical.

Don't forget about Tank Williams. I think he will add a lot to our sub packages as well. He's a hard hitting 230lb SS who we will use at ILB at times.

Hobbs will only be missed for his KR. hobbs problem was that he came in and did well right away and NEVER improved. Samuel came in and did well right away but improved a great deal. I've been waiting for Hobbs to take the next step and he never did.

I wish the LS was a bit bigger but drafting a LS is SO unusual for anyone. He'll be on the team. There is no way they actually spent a pick on him if they didn't already know.

Edelman is interesting. But I'm not sure the PATS will ever do a wildcat. With Brady and the cast he has around him why would you?

The OL are going to have to prove themselves to Dante. I like O'Callaghan but if he doesn't take the next step now then he will be in the same boat as Kaczur and Hobbs. Good backup material but not a stud. We'll see about them. I have no opinion yet.

Gentlemen, remember the name Jermail Porter. I have a gut feeling he'll be our starting T within two years and be an anchor for more than a decade.

I have thought since the day I heard Jason Taylor was cut that he'd be a PATRIOT. I still think so. In fact I think he has a handshake deal in place already. Our team is deep. Real deep, but if Guyton does't show a big jump this year and Bruschi can't hold up (and Seau surfs) then one ILB position is iffy. Without Taylor, one OLB position is also iffy unless someone takes a huge jump. That is the only question we have going forward...IMHO.

I think that we will put up a LOT of points with Brady back and teams will have to throw the ball to try to stay with us. Our sub packages will be the key. Sorry I've been so long winded.

nepg
04-28-2009, 09:55 AM
ILB won't be "iffy". Worst case, Adalius Thomas shifts there if Alexander, Guyton, Bruschi, McKenzie, and Ruud can't get it done. Also the possibility of Crable moving inside in certain situations...

hannah73
04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
Why do you think Jermail Porter would be so good? Wrestling may be good background for football, but a guy who's never played in his LIFE? Neal played in high school at least and it took him a while to play guard.

If he's to play tackle, that requires a lot of footspeed, quickness and agility which he may just not have. Just saying he seems kind of like a long shot, which is expected of any UDFA, I suppose.

I liked the draft overall...surprised they didn't draft Jarron Gilbert though, he'd be a good replacement for Seymour, maybe they don't think he's big enough.

Kind of a little po'd they took a 4th round guard who was the 20th guard ranked on some boards. Maybe he's special but there must be 10 other guys who are also that good, what is so great about him? He doesn't sound like he has the playing strength to root out huge DL. They have a history of drafting late round linemen who just get cut...Clint Oldenburger or something...name actually sounds alot like this guy.

Would have been happy if they'd have traded Maroney too and used a 5th on Javarris Williams of Tenn. State. There are still some good RBs available, Sheets from Purdue.

ElectricEye
04-28-2009, 10:03 AM
Also the possibility of Crable moving inside in certain situations...

I don't think Crable will play inside at all. Doesn't have the instincts for it at all. Not all that great in coverage either. I think the best way we can bring Crable along is to just ask him to rush the passer initially. Giving him ILB responsibilities would be a mistake.

bhyg
04-28-2009, 12:31 PM
ILB won't be "iffy". Worst case, Adalius Thomas shifts there if Alexander, Guyton, Bruschi, McKenzie, and Ruud can't get it done. Also the possibility of Crable moving inside in certain situations...


Crable won't move inside. I personally think our ILB will be fine, but if Bruschi takes another step back and we don't bring back Seau, then Guyton must bring it to the next level or one of our ILB spots will be sub par. Moving Thomas inside solidifies ILB but then both OLB will be question marks.

All I'm saying is that we have to have some people step it up at LB (1 inside and 1 outside).

Taylor will solve the OLB question because I feel comfortable with our current depth...as depth.

Inside Guyton is the key. If he can take it to the next level then we'll be fine. Bruschi is most likely playing his last year. His contract is up and unless he was playing hurt last year he has lost at least a step if not more. Seau I think can still bring it but he most likely won't be back. McKenzie could be good in a year but to count on a rookie is risky.

Outside is a bigger problem unless they bring in Taylor. That doesn't mean we won't be fine but compared to the rest of our roster one of the OLB spots is (at this time) weaker then our other positions.

TNPatsFan
04-29-2009, 10:26 AM
I look at it this way regarding the lack of an OLB in the draft. Which of the OLB's would have come in here and really made an impact in terms of improving the pass rush?

I think we all have pretty much overestimated the OLB's in this draft. My guess would be the only one that could come in as a rookie and generate more than say 5 or 6 sacks would be Maybin, and that's about all he would do because he'd be terrible on running plays.. not to mention he was unvailable anyway. I thought maybe Everette Brown could be an impact pass rusher but obviously the Pats (and every other team) didn't feel that way. BB made it clear his size was the issue there.

So while some of these guys could develop into good players, I don't think any of them would have solved the lack of pass rush problem this year. They could develop into good pass rushers, but then so could Crable and/or Redd. I'm sure the Pats will be able to generate at least 5 or 6 sacks with whomever they put in there this year. Crable and Redd can get after the QB, even if that's all they are used for.

If the pass rush is still a problem this year then they can address it again in next year's draft and free agency.

On the other hand, if BB wants to give up 2 first rounders and sign Terrell Suggs who is franchised right now to an offer, I'd be all for that.