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View Full Version : What would DHB done in the spread offense


JohnCandy
04-26-2009, 01:52 PM
If DHB had played in a spread offense what would his production have been? Everyone points to the fact that he did not have the numbers and that he was all speed.

But I doubt he had more then 60 passes thrown his way in any way shape or form this season in Maryland's passing attack.

I think he compares well to Maclin in terms of the main question being his hands.

Jeremy Maclin 102 catches.

DHB 102 catches, 1571 yards, 12 tds

FrankGore
04-26-2009, 02:15 PM
Tom Cable had a quote that said he would've put up 50 TDs.

Whether that's in one year or over his whole career, I don't know. Still pretty funny.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-26-2009, 02:26 PM
DHB is gonna be a good player for the Raiders, how good, I don't know.

But with his speed he's going to really open up the passing game for them with his mere presence on the field.

Crickett
04-26-2009, 02:29 PM
In a spread offense, DHB would have had a 300 yard touchdown.

MooshooGawd
04-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Is this going to be what Raider fans say trying to justify the DHB selection? Whatever makes them feel better.

Geo
04-26-2009, 02:39 PM
Heyward-Bey's in the perfect offense for him now.

Run-heavy so killer play action, with Russell's cannon arm delivering the ball deep.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Some 2008 wide receiver stats for those who care.

Darrius Heyward-Bey
- In the Maryland offense, any given pass attempt had a 21% chance of being to Heyward-Bey and he made up 19% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 72 times (7 broken up and 42 completed for 58.3% rate)
- Passes to others on Maryland completed at a 56.6% clip (difference for Heyward-Bey: +1.8%)
- Averaged 14.5 YPC

Jeremy Maclin
- In the Missouri offense, any given pass attempt had a 23% of being to Maclin, and he made up 25% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 129 times (14 broken up and 102 completed for 79.1% rate)
- Passes to others on Missouri completed at 69.3% clip (Difference for Maclin: +9.8%)
- Averaged 12.4 YPC

Michael Crabtree
- In the Texas Tech offense, any given pass attempt had a 22% change of being to Crabtree and he made up 21% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 145 times (9 broken up and 97 completed for 66.9% rate)
- Passes to others on Texas Tech completed at 72.3% clip (Difference for Crabtree: -5.4%)
- Averaged 12.2 YPC

So, to extrapolate unprecisely, if Heyward-Bey was thrown the ball as many times as Michael Crabtree, while maintaining the same completion rate (so, basically, if he retained a mediocre quarterback in a pass heavy system) and YPC, his stat line would look like...

85 catches, 1233 yards, ? TD

And if you upped his completion percentage to signify getting a better quarterback (let's use Graham Harrell and his overall average completion % of 70.6%), his stat line would look like...

102 catches, 1479 yards, ? TD

Not that this really means anything, it's just a statistical exercise. It doesn't factor that having Graham Harrell as one's quarterback probably means his YPC would go down, and it completely assumes that Heyward-Bey could even handle that big a chunk of a passing offense that prolific. But I thought it was at least interesting.

energizerbunny
04-26-2009, 08:57 PM
Some 2008 wide receiver stats for those who care.

Darrius Heyward-Bey
- In the Maryland offense, any given pass attempt had a 21% chance of being to Heyward-Bey and he made up 19% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 72 times (7 broken up and 42 completed for 58.3% rate)
- Passes to others on Maryland completed at a 56.6% clip (difference for Heyward-Bey: +1.8%)
- Averaged 14.5 YPC

Jeremy Maclin
- In the Missouri offense, any given pass attempt had a 23% of being to Maclin, and he made up 25% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 129 times (14 broken up and 102 completed for 79.1% rate)
- Passes to others on Missouri completed at 69.3% clip (Difference for Maclin: +9.8%)
- Averaged 12.4 YPC

Michael Crabtree
- In the Texas Tech offense, any given pass attempt had a 22% change of being to Crabtree and he made up 21% of his team's catch production.
- Thrown to 145 times (9 broken up and 97 completed for 66.9% rate)
- Passes to others on Texas Tech completed at 72.3% clip (Difference for Crabtree: -5.4%)
- Averaged 12.2 YPC

So, to extrapolate unprecisely, if Heyward-Bey was thrown the ball as many times as Michael Crabtree, while maintaining the same completion rate (so, basically, if he retained a mediocre quarterback in a pass heavy system) and YPC, his stat line would look like...

85 catches, 1233 yards, ? TD

And if you upped his completion percentage to signify getting a better quarterback (let's use Graham Harrell and his overall average completion % of 70.6%), his stat line would look like...

102 catches, 1479 yards, ? TD

Not that this really means anything, it's just a statistical exercise. It doesn't factor that having Graham Harrell as one's quarterback probably means his YPC would go down, and it completely assumes that Heyward-Bey could even handle that big a chunk of a passing offense that prolific. But I thought it was at least interesting.

great post, I agree we need to give him some Calvin Johnson leeway in this regard.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-26-2009, 09:00 PM
great post, I agree we need to give him some Calvin Johnson leeway in this regard.

To be fair, I ran those "team total completions/player catches" on some past players too, and while DHB made up 19% of Maryland's catch total, Calvin Johnson made up 44% of Georgia Tech's catch totals. Then again, comparing anyone to Johnson is a little unfair.

SeanTaylorRIP
04-26-2009, 09:02 PM
I absolutely hate ignorant NFL analysts on T.V. No he isn't on T.V. every second from Michael Crabtree, and yes he's not a better prospect, but he is most definitely a better vertical threat than Crabtree which is what Oakland needs to utilize Russell's arm and prevent teams from stacking the box on McFadden and Fargas, as well as opening things up underneath for Zach Miller. I love how ignorant these so called experts are. Like I said in another thread they were treating him like Justin Gatlin. Basically saying DHB is a trackstar who doesn't have any football skills. His hands are so underrated and it's really a pity how much hate this kid will get before he ever steps on the field. I can't wait for him to shut people up.

neko4
04-26-2009, 09:10 PM
I absolutely hate ignorant NFL analysts on T.V. No he isn't on T.V. every second from Michael Crabtree, and yes he's not a better prospect, but he is most definitely a better vertical threat than Crabtree which is what Oakland needs to utilize Russell's arm and prevent teams from stacking the box on McFadden and Fargas, as well as opening things up underneath for Zach Miller. I love how ignorant these so called experts are. Like I said in another thread they were treating him like Justin Gatlin. Basically saying DHB is a trackstar who doesn't have any football skills. His hands are so underrated and it's really a pity how much hate this kid will get before he ever steps on the field. I can't wait for him to shut people up.

Heyward-Bey's in the perfect offense for him now.

Run-heavy so killer play action, with Russell's cannon arm delivering the ball deep.

My thoughts exactly. Crabtree isnt a good fit for Oakland's offense, whereas DHB's speed will give russell a great deep threat.
Also it seems that just because DHB has track star speed, he doesn't have good hands. Its as if analysts believe that those two traits can't be in the same player

Paranoidmoonduck
04-26-2009, 09:22 PM
See, I'm torn in regards to the offensive fit.

Crabtree perfectly fits what Oakland should be trying to do, but Heyward-Bey perfectly fits what Oakland is trying to do.

What Oakland should be trying to do is set up a short range timing-based pass offense where Russell can use his arm strength and quick release to deliver the ball on out and slants faster than defenses can react (and where his tendency to stare receivers down doesn't become such a problem). It would help build his confidence (and passer rating) and take pressure off that run game to always be the productive part of the offense supporting the deep pass attack. The truth is that a short range pass attack which occupies safeties (something that Oakland can really do with a guy like Zach Miller on the roster) and spreads out coverages opens up just about as many deep opportunities as a run heavy offense and it takes a lot of pressure off the offensive line. Crabtree is a guy who is quick and strong off the line, so he can generate quick separation on short routes and he's got good hands and great after the catch ability to turn those short bullets into longer gains.

What Oakland is trying to do is antiquated, which is too bad. I would have thought that the Art Shell offense would have been enough of an example to force Oakland to try and be more modern, but that doesn't appear to have happened. They want an unrealistically consistent run attack to take the pressure off Russell and then use him for what they (incorrectly) think the logical conclusion of having a quarterback with that kind of arm should be.

Which isn't to suggest that Heyward-Bey won't be a good deep threat (he should be) or that Russell can be a good deep passer (he can be, provided the offensive line can provide the time for him to be so), but I think Oakland is building that offense (and developing their quarterback) the wrong way.

superman
04-26-2009, 09:46 PM
they have higgins to go deep. craptree would have been the better pick.

i see this turning out like ginn for mia. hasn't completely busted yet and will forever be a decent #2, but that's not worth a top 10 pick. i do think he's better than williamson.

JohnCandy
04-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Jamarcus' strength is in the long ball and he actaully struggles with the accuracy on his short timing routes.

And what the Raiders are trying to do is not antiquated it just won a world championship with the Steelers. It is also used by the Colts and a number of other teams.

Not every team is a west coast offense.

The Raiders want to run the ball then push the ball down field with play action.

Paranoidmoonduck
04-26-2009, 10:18 PM
Jamarcus' strength is in the long ball and he actaully struggles with the accuracy on his short timing routes.

This isn't even remotely true. It wasn't true at LSU and it hasn't been true in the NFL.

JohnCandy
04-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Why can't the Raiders have success with DHB this year using him like Santana Moss. Run some WR screens and send him deep a couple of times.

The threat of his speed will help the running attack.