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cdf_2108
04-26-2009, 07:42 PM
Top 3 picks all huge character concerns:
Andre Smith
Rey Maualuga
Michael Johnson

Obviously very good value for all of them, talent-wise but come on, are there any high character guys left on that team now that TJ bolted? (i like keith rivers though and am intrigued by him teaming up with his old teammate inside)

art vandelay
04-26-2009, 07:42 PM
Forgot to mention Bernard Scott - he could be the greatest character risk in the whole draft.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
04-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Michael Johnson with character issues? Since when?

keylime_5
04-26-2009, 07:44 PM
Smith, Maualuga, and Johnson - while risky due to different reasons (weight for Smith, lack of discipline for Maualuga, and complete inconsistency for Johnson) - all 3 have significant upside. Smith can become one of the best tackles in the NFL, Maualuga has superstar potential, and Johnson is a freak athlete who is a lot like Julius Peppers but not a great football player.

3pac
04-26-2009, 07:45 PM
They aren't HUGE character concerns with Smith or Mau. That's a gross exaggeration.

cdf_2108
04-26-2009, 07:45 PM
Michael Johnson with character issues? Since when?

i consider lack of commitment/dedication and terrible motor as a character concern

PalmerToCJ
04-26-2009, 07:45 PM
Those guys aren't the ones that concern me, Smith has been very impressive in all of his interviews here (which did surprise me) and from what I know Johnson doesn't really have any it's just a concern of motivation. Maualuga is a valid one.

Taking Scott was the one that killed me. The guy is old, a POS person and I don't know why we addressed RB so late. At least it was a later round pick.

PossibleCabbage
04-26-2009, 07:46 PM
I don't know if it's fair to say that the Bengals took a ton of character risks, I would instead say that they took a lot of players who, though talented, really stand to gain a lot from having a strong locker room... something the Bengals very much lack.

In a perfect world, they could have had a great draft. In an imperfect one, this could be a trainwreck.

pr0d1gy
04-26-2009, 07:49 PM
In the perfect world, they would dump a lot of the veterans and rebuild on these picks along with Palmer. I thought the Bengals had a phenomenal draft IMHO.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Smith and Scott are the only ones with character concerns. When they took Bernard Scott, my exact words were "WTF are they doing, they never learn".

SeanTaylorRIP
04-26-2009, 07:52 PM
I hate them for stealing Clinton Mcdonald.

PalmerToCJ
04-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Smith and Scott are the only ones with character concerns. When they took Bernard Scott, my exact words were "WTF are they doing, they never learn".

Yeah, none of the other picks really bothered me but given the past... The pick of Scott is just horrendous. Granted, Corey Dillon had pretty much the same background...

To hear Andre Smith and the things Saban had to say about him, I'm honestly not worried about him off the field... Just want him to be sure and keep that weight/man boobs to a reasonable size.

Hurricanes25
04-26-2009, 07:55 PM
Im just suprised they took Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe.

PalmerToCJ
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
It was for his physicality and run blocking from what I can tell. Our OL coach kept saying because he can do two things 'run block and pass block'. He seems to remind them a lot of Willie Anderson.

cdf_2108
04-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Im just suprised they took Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe.

I always thought that scouts agreed that smith had better ability and potential but the combine mishap and the weight were the only things keeping monroe slightly ahead.

G-Men88
04-26-2009, 08:19 PM
I actually think the Bengals did a very good job improving their team this weekend

Mr. Hero
04-26-2009, 08:20 PM
If you take Scott out of the equation I really like what they did. Scott's a big question mark but he's a late round pick who'll hopefully get cut before he's able to sabotage the locker room.

themaninblack
04-26-2009, 08:57 PM
The only player that we drafted that really has significant character concerns is Scott. At that spot its probably worth it to see what he can bring to the table and if he ***** up he will be gone.

critesy
04-26-2009, 09:27 PM
i absolutely love their draft

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-26-2009, 10:11 PM
I was very impressed with the Bengals top picks. Those three picks should all be starters/ in rotation as rookies and contribute at a high level.

I don't get any major character concerns with Andre Smith other than immaturity, ( looks 22, has the personality of a 14 year old), Rey is gonna want to split someone's head on defense for having been selected so late, and Johnson could become a player having to go against Andre Smith every day in practice.

Personally, if all three pan out, they could be the cornerstones of a playoff team next season.

That's a big IF, as far as playoffs.

ThePudge
04-26-2009, 10:23 PM
I don't often do this, come out and officially sound off on people. Still, the Bengal haters have to learn now that this draft by no means concerns me... not in the slightest. I'm nearing 20 years old and I have to say that this year's Bengals draft is the best I've seen. Top to bottom, the best.

Sure the coaches will have their hands full. A lot of coaching needs to be done, especially by DC Mike Zimmer and company. But, let us remind ourselves, coaches do, in fact, get paid to coach, to teach, to mentor.

Andre Smith - Never bought the character issues there and neither did Nick Saban, or Marvin Lewis. The kid got some bad advice, made a couple decisions that he wishes he could have back. After a tumultuous Combine experience which he couldn't have handled much worse, he willed himself through the rest of the process and made significant efforts to correct his image. His college coach, Nick Saban, strongly campaigned for Smith, insisting what some of us had already known: a good kid that had gotten some bad advice and followed it. Not a concern, especially with OL coach Paul Alexander. The kid's going to be a stud.

Rey Maualuga - immature, perhaps unpredictable. Not only will he have Zimmer and Jeff Fitzgerald on his ass, but also has perhaps one of the most mature, personable, experienced leaders in Dhani Jones to study under. Jones is a class act who's real value comes in the locker room and on the practice field. He's a vocal leader and leads by example. If anyone can help to tame Rey's emotions, it may be Dhani.

Michael Johnson - Not at all a character concern so you really basically fabricated this on your own. Dedication/Motor problems? Oh yea? Paul Johnson has raved about Johnson's motor in practice and has positively commented on his effort on multiple occasions. Johnson's problem is his lack of leverage, technique, raw build physically, lack of anchor strength, and stamina (having been used exclusively in a 3rd Down pass-rusher three years prior.) He's raw both physically and as a football player and tends to disappear for stretches due to the reasons above. The effort is there, the dedication is there, he just will need reps in the weight room and coaching.

Coffman-Luigs-Huber-Trent... All ideal character.

Bernard Scott - A late 6th Round pick that will likely fight for a roster spot. A 2nd Round talent. If he gets his head on straight, and I've said it before as a general statement, he will be the steal of the draft. A huge character risk of course, but I'll say this... who cares? A.J. Nicholson and Reggie McNeal of the 2006 NFL draft were 5th and 6th Round picks respectively that booked their ticket out of town with character issues. Neither rocked the franchise's foundation and each primarily served as a number for the media. If Bernard Scott gets drunk, drives a car into a pole and steals an eighth of weed at gunpoint, he's gone and that's the end of it. A rookie 6th Round pick is not going to disturb the peace in the locker room. Without a doubt worth the risk that late.

As for the rest of the picks, no character concerns. Clinton McDonald was 133rd on my board and I'm very excited about that pick as I think he has a great chance to make it in Cincinnati as a rotational DE/DT. He could be a real asset inside on passing downs as I feel (and I have felt) that he may have the quickest first step of any DT in this draft (aside from perhaps Peria Jerry.)

So, in conclusion, don't overreact. It was the best Bengals draft in a long time. The coaches will be tested, but as I said earlier, they are paid to coach. I am very happy and very confident, for the first time... ever, with the Bengals draft.

lost33cause
04-26-2009, 10:25 PM
Personally, if all three pan out, they could be the cornerstones of a playoff team next season.

That's a big IF, as far as playoffs.

I'm going to disagree with you on your last line just a little bit. If Carson and the offense turn things around AND some of our picks contribute this year on defense I have to think it's a playoff caliber team. I know this is all on paper but this is a damn good team "on paper".

I did not research this but the troubled running back hasn't been in trouble since 2005. 4 years can do alot in turning your life around. I don't really see how you can say he's old. If he was an OL guy or something along those lines I would agre because you're going to lose out on a lot of playing time but as a RB they don't have a long shelf life in the NFL anyhow so if he lasts 5 years then we got good value.

tjsunstein
04-26-2009, 10:28 PM
They had a damn good draft. Not quite playoff caliber though. I would say two years until they're back to competitive. The Ravens and Steelers didn't dissapear you know.

jnew76
04-26-2009, 10:55 PM
I am a huge fan of Bernard Scott's talent, and I endorsed drafting him in in the 5th round or later... But that said, he would have the shortest leash possible and as soon as he showed the slightest problem I would cut him loose and let someone else worry about him.

I would call Andre Smith very immature, and he does not come without question marks. He is a risk who needs a good mentor and good people around him.

Michael Johnson, while he has failed to play up to potential. has great value in the 3rd. To say he is lazy is ridiculous IMO... you don't look like this being lazy...

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16558&d=1236649957

Shahin
04-27-2009, 12:36 AM
you're jealous.

phlysac
04-27-2009, 12:46 AM
Make sure Bernard Scott and Chris Henry have seperate locker rooms and everything should be fine.

Mr. Hero
04-27-2009, 01:27 AM
you don't look like this being lazy...

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16558&d=1236649957

I hate this argument, the problem with him isn't he's too lazy to work out it's that something in his head keeps him from bringing it every down, he might be a beast in practise, but when he plays there are a lot of plays where he's just washed out and with his talent that shouldn't happen. To me that points to motivation concerns and that's lead me to become one of his biggest skeptics on this board, but he's got talent and since I like that bengals D I'll hope for the best for their sake, that said I still think he never earns Odom or Geather's job.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-27-2009, 01:41 AM
Lazy is probably not the right word, Hero. Lazy to me implies unmotivated, instead I see a guy who plays with inconsistent effort, too finesse if you will, for his own good.

Michael Johnson needs to understand the shortest distance to a QB is through, over, or around an OT, not dropping back into coverage when you get stalemated on your first attempt.

He's not relentless enough in his approach on the field, but I feel he can improve on his level of gametime aggression. If it happens, he could be very, very good.

Mr. Hero
04-27-2009, 02:31 AM
I think that lack of relentlessness is directly tied to his motivation and is why I often call him unmotivated and lazy. lazy might not be the correct term but in his case I use it synonymously with unmotivated.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2009, 05:02 AM
I don't often do this, come out and officially sound off on people. Still, the Bengal haters have to learn now that this draft by no means concerns me... not in the slightest. I'm nearing 20 years old and I have to say that this year's Bengals draft is the best I've seen. Top to bottom, the best.

Sure the coaches will have their hands full. A lot of coaching needs to be done, especially by DC Mike Zimmer and company. But, let us remind ourselves, coaches do, in fact, get paid to coach, to teach, to mentor.

Andre Smith - Never bought the character issues there and neither did Nick Saban, or Marvin Lewis. The kid got some bad advice, made a couple decisions that he wishes he could have back. After a tumultuous Combine experience which he couldn't have handled much worse, he willed himself through the rest of the process and made significant efforts to correct his image. His college coach, Nick Saban, strongly campaigned for Smith, insisting what some of us had already known: a good kid that had gotten some bad advice and followed it. Not a concern, especially with OL coach Paul Alexander. The kid's going to be a stud.

Rey Maualuga - immature, perhaps unpredictable. Not only will he have Zimmer and Jeff Fitzgerald on his ass, but also has perhaps one of the most mature, personable, experienced leaders in Dhani Jones to study under. Jones is a class act who's real value comes in the locker room and on the practice field. He's a vocal leader and leads by example. If anyone can help to tame Rey's emotions, it may be Dhani.

Michael Johnson - Not at all a character concern so you really basically fabricated this on your own. Dedication/Motor problems? Oh yea? Paul Johnson has raved about Johnson's motor in practice and has positively commented on his effort on multiple occasions. Johnson's problem is his lack of leverage, technique, raw build physically, lack of anchor strength, and stamina (having been used exclusively in a 3rd Down pass-rusher three years prior.) He's raw both physically and as a football player and tends to disappear for stretches due to the reasons above. The effort is there, the dedication is there, he just will need reps in the weight room and coaching.

Coffman-Luigs-Huber-Trent... All ideal character.

Bernard Scott - A late 6th Round pick that will likely fight for a roster spot. A 2nd Round talent. If he gets his head on straight, and I've said it before as a general statement, he will be the steal of the draft. A huge character risk of course, but I'll say this... who cares? A.J. Nicholson and Reggie McNeal of the 2006 NFL draft were 5th and 6th Round picks respectively that booked their ticket out of town with character issues. Neither rocked the franchise's foundation and each primarily served as a number for the media. If Bernard Scott gets drunk, drives a car into a pole and steals an eighth of weed at gunpoint, he's gone and that's the end of it. A rookie 6th Round pick is not going to disturb the peace in the locker room. Without a doubt worth the risk that late.

As for the rest of the picks, no character concerns. Clinton McDonald was 133rd on my board and I'm very excited about that pick as I think he has a great chance to make it in Cincinnati as a rotational DE/DT. He could be a real asset inside on passing downs as I feel (and I have felt) that he may have the quickest first step of any DT in this draft (aside from perhaps Peria Jerry.)

So, in conclusion, don't overreact. It was the best Bengals draft in a long time. The coaches will be tested, but as I said earlier, they are paid to coach. I am very happy and very confident, for the first time... ever, with the Bengals draft.

The Bengals have the absolute smallest scouting department in the NFL. It really isn't that they are cheap, it has more to do with revenues and the ability to compete with a small market team in the NFL. Hence Cincy is always going to have serious problems on draft day finding talent.

I don't know if you watched the tape on Michael Johnson shown on NFL Network yersterday but it was about as bad as I have ever seen on a prospect. Johnson makes one defensive move and if it works, great, but if it doesn't, he just walks away from the play and watches from his position on the field even if the play is only a few yards from him. He makes absolutely no attempt to fight through blocks or to chase down plays where perhaps he might have an impact. In all honesty I have never seen a player with as little a motor as Johnson has if he even has one. I'm sure if you could have watched that tape, you wouldn't even mention Johnson as a prospect worth drafting. It was embarrassing to watch him play.

rojones82
04-27-2009, 05:15 AM
im not gonna waste my time writing an essay, but im gonna say this.

The only guy we brought in who is a character concern in terms of getting in to trouble off the field (which is what most people worry about) is Bernard Scott.

And in this case we took him with a 6th round compensation pick !

Seriously get over it haters, we had a good draft, guys drafted after the 1st round are there for a reason and sometimes even in the 1st late on for a reason.

To moan about Michael Johnson in the 3rd is a joke! He is worth the shot.

Raider_fan_Canada
04-27-2009, 06:31 AM
Cant disagree with the thread. I think Rey and Andre are very talented, but Im afraid of how they will react when they face something they dont know, and thats losing. I would have liked a more stable, more established veteran team for Andre Smith.

i consider lack of commitment/dedication and terrible motor as a character concern

Absolutely. Football character is the most important. If you dont have it you cant do anything. Look at Plaxico Burress: before his personnal character pulled him out of the field he achieved nothing less then greatness.

roscoesdad27
04-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Im just suprised they took Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe.

not me...heck i'm surprised st. louie took jason over andre.

cinci had the best draft imho.

killxswitch
04-27-2009, 08:10 AM
The Bengals have the absolute smallest scouting department in the NFL. It really isn't that they are cheap, it has more to do with revenues and the ability to compete with a small market team in the NFL. Hence Cincy is always going to have serious problems on draft day finding talent.


GM Bill Polian and the Colts are known to have pretty good drafts. Do you really think Indianapolis has that much more money to spend on scouting?

Why the Bengals
04-27-2009, 08:18 AM
IAMCanadian
I also saw the footage of Johnson on NFl Network where Mayock bashed him. However on ESPN 2 minutes later they showed Johnson make 3-5 outstanding plays on hustle and determination....chasing plays down and making good tackles/sacks. For the physical freak he his is production numbers do not match but sometimes maturity and coaching could turn that switch and if that light goes on for him he could dominate and be a steal.
Mayock will use footage to love or hate you he drools over certain guys and hates others like all scouts be he had it out for Johnson. Hey our pass rush can't get much worse right?

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-27-2009, 08:22 AM
I don't know if you watched the tape on Michael Johnson shown on NFL Network yersterday but it was about as bad as I have ever seen on a prospect. Johnson makes one defensive move and if it works, great, but if it doesn't, he just walks away from the play and watches from his position on the field even if the play is only a few yards from him. He makes absolutely no attempt to fight through blocks or to chase down plays where perhaps he might have an impact. In all honesty I have never seen a player with as little a motor as Johnson has if he even has one. I'm sure if you could have watched that tape, you wouldn't even mention Johnson as a prospect worth drafting. It was embarrassing to watch him play.

For some reason the analysts on NFL Network, Mayock specifically, feel obligated to build the case against Michael Johnson that not only is he not worth a 1st round grade, but that he's undeserving of being drafted before the 6th round.

This is nonsense IMO. Mike's had really good games, and performances where his effort alone has preserved a win for GT.

True he is also inconsistent, but when you understand how he was used at GT and played on special teams as a full time starter on defense, I think the explanation is simple; effort or intensity begins with conditioning. It's an old cliche, but still very true, "fatigue makes cowards of us all".

I think once Michael Johnson gets his conditioning up to par and understands the effort he needs to play with to be a star in the NFL, I can easily see him raising his level of play.

At worst he's a solid starter for 10 years who occasionally makes plays and always has a chance to get the QB when he rushes the pocket.

Bengalsrocket
04-27-2009, 08:49 AM
I like to think of myself as a reasonable, intelligent adult who can separate my bias from this conversation.

That said, within the past we haven't really drafted that many character issue guys. For the sake of time in this argument, lets go over top 3 players drafted for us each year, because let's face it; if we're crying about Bernard Scott then this thread is unnecessary.

2008 Draft: Keith Rivers, Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell

2007 Draft: Leon Hall, Kenny Irons, Marvin White

2006 Draft: Jonathan Joseph, Andrew Whitworth, Frostee Ruckers

2005 Draft: David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Chris Henry

2004 Draft: Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, Madieu Williams

2003 Draft: Carson Palmer, Eric Steinbach, Kelley Washington

Now lets name the guys who had "character issues" coming out of college:

-Chris Henry

Player's who have been arrested since being drafted by the Bengals?

-Chris Henry, Leon Hall, Odell Thurman

Yes, we take high risk / high reward type players. But it happens a lot less in the first 3 rounds than most people would like to believe. Most of our first day players unfortunately were busts because of injuries, not because of their maturity level / motor.

So in other words, what do you want the Bengals to learn the day after drafting these guys? We have no idea how Andre Smith or Rey will handle the pros. Michael Johnson was clearly a project pick. No one is expecting him to start over Odom or Geathers. Hopefully he can impact special teams and get in on passing downs occasionally until he has learned a little bit from our coaching staff.

Hey I've got an idea, how bout we all go grade these drafts like we know what the hell we're talking about the day after, and we can give the Bengals a terrible grade because our crystal ball says that Andre Smith is a terrible human being who is going to get fat / lazy and never work.

JoeyJr09
04-27-2009, 09:59 AM
I like to think of myself as a reasonable, intelligent adult who can separate my bias from this conversation.

That said, within the past we haven't really drafted that many character issue guys. For the sake of time in this argument, lets go over top 3 players drafted for us each year, because let's face it; if we're crying about Bernard Scott then this thread is unnecessary.

2008 Draft: Keith Rivers, Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell

2007 Draft: Leon Hall, Kenny Irons, Marvin White

2006 Draft: Jonathan Joseph, Andrew Whitworth, Frostee Ruckers

2005 Draft: David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Chris Henry

2004 Draft: Chris Perry, Keiwan Ratliff, Madieu Williams

2003 Draft: Carson Palmer, Eric Steinbach, Kelley Washington

Now lets name the guys who had "character issues" coming out of college:

-Chris Henry

Player's who have been arrested since being drafted by the Bengals?

-Chris Henry, Leon Hall, Odell Thurman

Yes, we take high risk / high reward type players. But it happens a lot less in the first 3 rounds than most people would like to believe. Most of our first day players unfortunately were busts because of injuries, not because of their maturity level / motor.

So in other words, what do you want the Bengals to learn the day after drafting these guys? We have no idea how Andre Smith or Rey will handle the pros. Michael Johnson was clearly a project pick. No one is expecting him to start over Odom or Geathers. Hopefully he can impact special teams and get in on passing downs occasionally until he has learned a little bit from our coaching staff.

Hey I've got an idea, how bout we all go grade these drafts like we know what the hell we're talking about the day after, and we can give the Bengals a terrible grade because our crystal ball says that Andre Smith is a terrible human being who is going to get fat / lazy and never work.

If you think Chris Henry is the only player that had issues coming out of college that the Bengals drafted, you are not being reason and have a serious bias.

Did you forget Frostee Rucker running around USC being a sexual terror for women all over campus?

Odell Thurman had a ton of questions coming out of UGA.

Not to mention other guys like AJ Nicholson and over low round guys like Bernard Scott again this year.

Nobody is saying that the Bengals go out look for the character issue guys and draft them. But they certainly draft more then the average team and don't learn from past mistakes.

Bengals78
04-27-2009, 10:04 AM
How about those Patriots never learning? Or those Vikes?
People just like to pick on the Bengals. We had one small stretch of minor crimes and people flip a sh!t. Why isn't there outrage at the Vikings for taking Harvin after the Sex Boat scandle? Where is the outrage at the Patriots for drafting a player who failed the idiot test (as did Harvin)? Oh wait, they have "leadership." BS! I understand the gripe against Scott but for Chrissake he is a sixth rounder. People are over exaggerating Smith and Maualuga's character because of who drafted them. How is Michael Johnson a BAD pick? A guy who was once thought to go top 10 taken in the 3rd because of inconsistencies. Ill take that and just work on him.

Bengals78
04-27-2009, 10:08 AM
If you think Chris Henry is the only player that had issues coming out of college that the Bengals drafted, you are not being reason and have a serious bias.

Did you forget Frostee Rucker running around USC being a sexual terror for women all over campus?

Odell Thurman had a ton of questions coming out of UGA.

Not to mention other guys like AJ Nicholson and over low round guys like Bernard Scott again this year.

Nobody is saying that the Bengals go out look for the character issue guys and draft them. But they certainly draft more then the average team and don't learn from past mistakes.

AJ Nicholson who got cut? And did you not read what he was talking about? The first THREE picks all those you mentioned outside of Thurman came after the first three.

ESPN aired an episode of Outside The Lines documenting the misbehavior of Frostee Rucker in which female students from Tustin High School, Colorado State University, and the University of Southern California came forward and identified Rucker as the person who had exposed himself, assaulted, and even raped some female students. Charges were filed but there were no convictions.

Taken from Wikipedia.

JoeyJr09
04-27-2009, 10:08 AM
How about those Patriots never learning? Or those Vikes?
People just like to pick on the Bengals. We had one small stretch of minor crimes and people flip a sh!t. Why isn't there outrage at the Vikings for taking Harvin after the Sex Boat scandle? Where is the outrage at the Patriots for drafting a player who failed the idiot test (as did Harvin)? Oh wait, they have "leadership." BS! I understand the gripe against Scott but for Chrissake he is a sixth rounder. People are over exaggerating Smith and Maualuga's character because of who drafted them. How is Michael Johnson a BAD pick? A guy who was once thought to go top 10 taken in the 3rd because of inconsistencies. Ill take that and just work on him.

Would you like me to pull out the various articles talking about Smith and Maualuga's college days from way back before they were ever even a consideration for the Bengals?

Smith and Maualuga were being bashed for character before they were ever Bengals.

Do give me the Bengals are picked on crap. They drafted 3 guys that were known for bad character. That brings negative publicity when you have the most arrested team in the NFL already.

Bengals78
04-27-2009, 10:11 AM
Its not that they are only talking about the issues now, its that people are saying that they are in the sh!t hole because of where they went and they are now guaranteed felons.

JoeyJr09
04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
AJ Nicholson who got cut? And did you not read what he was talking about? The first THREE picks all those you mentioned outside of Thurman came after the first three.

ESPN aired an episode of Outside The Lines documenting the misbehavior of Frostee Rucker in which female students from Tustin High School, Colorado State University, and the University of Southern California came forward and identified Rucker as the person who had exposed himself, assaulted, and even raped some female students. Charges were filed but there were no convictions.

Taken from Wikipedia.

Go re-read his post genius. Rucker, Henry and Thurman were all in the 1st 3. And I mention Nicholson as a late round guy that had issues since the Bengals have had various late round problems their fans conveniently like to ignore. You guys act like late round picks aren't part of the team.

Not to mention, we are talking about character problems not convictions. Just because Rucker didn't go to jail, doesn't mean he wasn't a POS human being.

JoeyJr09
04-27-2009, 10:14 AM
Its not that they are only talking about the issues now, its that people are saying that they are in the sh!t hole because of where they went and they are now guaranteed felons.

Nobody said they are guaranteed felons.

Good god man, get off this whole victim mentality.

These are players that everyone knew had character issues the entire process. Everyone knew they needed to go to a strong locker room with high character players.

Instead they went to the Bengals who for a fact have had issues with bad character guys and arrests over the past few years.

That doesn't mean people are picking on the Bengals or trashing the picks. They are talking about a legit concern with a team that has a bad history with the issue we are discussing.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
Every team has guys with character issues, I won't even say the Bengals are the worst, it's just that for whatever reason all those problem guys,(Henry, Thurman, etc.) imploded at the same time for the Bengals.

It's something about the nature of the sport, in my opinion, that places such a high premium on personality traits that in any other sphere would be considered borderline psychopathic, homicidal, and anti-social.

The best you can hope for is that those players with character issues/problems have problems that are not current and several years in the past.

From what I've seen, Maualuga had some disciplinary problems in HS, but grew up somewhat at USC.

Andre Smith disarms people who meet him for the first time not because he has character issues, but the fact that he seems like he just graduated from junior HS.

When I say immature and Andre Smith, think of Shaquille O'Neal when he left LSU after his junior year, basically just an overgrown kid.

People wonder if a guy with a "kid mentality" can handle the grind of the NFL. Just watch his tape to see all you need to know about that.

But I will say that if Marvin Lewis values his job, this season he's gonna be under the microscope with Carson Palmer back, he needs to run a more disciplined ship.

Remember, I believe Lewis was the D-coordinator in Baltimore when Ray Lewis was accused/ or present when a man was stabbed to death in Atlanta by one of his acquaintances. Ray Lewis went on to lead the Ravens to the SB.

I guess after you endure that kind of ordeal, no baggage a player brings with him into the NFL looks that bad.

nepg
04-27-2009, 02:03 PM
How about those Patriots never learning? Or those Vikes?
People just like to pick on the Bengals. We had one small stretch of minor crimes and people flip a sh!t. Why isn't there outrage at the Vikings for taking Harvin after the Sex Boat scandle? Where is the outrage at the Patriots for drafting a player who failed the idiot test (as did Harvin)? Oh wait, they have "leadership." BS! I understand the gripe against Scott but for Chrissake he is a sixth rounder. People are over exaggerating Smith and Maualuga's character because of who drafted them. How is Michael Johnson a BAD pick? A guy who was once thought to go top 10 taken in the 3rd because of inconsistencies. Ill take that and just work on him.
The Patriots can afford to take some risks in the draft and with free agency because they've built a veteran lockerroom that's able to manage itself, and have implemented a zero tolerance policy that everyone on the team adheres to.

The Bengals cannot afford to draft like this. They keep doing it, and as the title of this thread says...they never learn. Andre Smith is a guy they need to pass on. Eugene Monroe was right there, that would have been a great pick. Everette Brown was right there where they took Maualuga - as was Darius Butler and a bevy of other good options....

I don't have a problem with their draft after Michael Johnson, but they keep following the same pattern every year, and refuse to build a quality lockerroom in lieu of some talent that's fallen because the other teams don't like his make-up. Even if you have a ****** scouting department, you should be able to pick up on trends from other teams and learn that they might know a thing or two about a guy...and just follow suit every once in awhile.

pr0d1gy
04-27-2009, 02:31 PM
OK here's the deal.

1) Their first pick is a guy I had as the #1 overall player in this draft since I saw him start for Alabama his entire Freshman year. After hearing Saban backed him after leaving Saban high & dry and not taking care of business in the offseason, well it just speaks to the fact that he is just that damn good. Believe me when I tell you that Andre Smith is the most can't miss LT prospect since Orlando Pace.

2) USC MLB is a top 20 prospect just based on size, strength, & intensity; but his lack of speed made him appear to be more of a 3-4 system MLB than a true MLB prospect like, say, Patrick Willis (DAMN YOU for not taking him Falcons!). That said, the guy is a hell of a football player and his game speed is a little better than his timed, so if he just works hard on fundementals with a great LB coach (wow, the Bengals picked him? heheh) he could be a stud.

3) Michael Johnson is a great kid, not unlike another recent GT player Calvin Johnson. I'm a UGA fan but I think you got a major steal on this pick if he can have time to grow and learn to handle the physicality of the NFL. I think you guys have a solid End in Johnson that could play 12-15 years for you guys, but he'll need to grow into that player.

My main concern with any player picked by the Bengals that they tend to get tossed into the fire and flame out quick. I am hoping that they will not have too much pressure to win this year, thus allowing these potential studs to develop into starters in 2010.

cdf_2108
04-27-2009, 02:38 PM
I love how many Bengals fans bashed me for making this thread--glad to see other people (including Scott Wright, see his initial analysis) think that the Bengals took a significant amount of high risk/high reward picks.

Andre Smith the most can't miss LT prospect since Orlando Pace?? Are you kidding me? He's not even the most can't miss LT prospect since Jake Long.

nepg
04-27-2009, 02:42 PM
The Bengals have no business taking those players. They need to rebuild their lockerroom.

The classic example of what the Bengals are about is F-tagging a K, letting TJ Housh go for nothing, and keeping Chad Johnson... It should have been the other way around....

A team that cared about building a winning team would have tagged Housh and dumped Chad Johnson on the first non-rival with 50-cents on the dollar offer. They're constantly dumping good players with great character and intangibles for trash-ass turds who have zero concept of "team".

They show more love for turds like Stacy Andrews's than Willie Anderson's/Eric Steinbach's, Chad Johnson's than TJ Housh's, etc. And it's quite obvious that this is why they keep losing.

Crickett
04-27-2009, 02:53 PM
I don't often do this, come out and officially sound off on people. Still, the Bengal haters have to learn now that this draft by no means concerns me... not in the slightest. I'm nearing 20 years old and I have to say that this year's Bengals draft is the best I've seen. Top to bottom, the best.

2003 was better. Top QB, top guard, a WR who was projected who projected to be a possible first round pick to the Jets prior to their trade up to #4 and Dennis Weathersby who was an early second round prospect before he was the victim of a drive-by. Outside of a church.

MarioPalmer
04-27-2009, 03:59 PM
LMAO at the nOOb that thinks that Rey has character issues...go learn something scrub. Nobody cares about what some kid did during a party in his freshman year, hahahaha what a n00b.

JoeyJr09
04-27-2009, 06:58 PM
LMAO at the nOOb that thinks that Rey has character issues...go learn something scrub. Nobody cares about what some kid did during a party in his freshman year, hahahaha what a n00b.

Has nothing to do with the party his freshman year. Has to do with the fact that USC coaches told some NFL guys that Cushing and Mathews had to keep Maualuga in line because he was immature and kept getting caught up with the wrong crowd.

pr0d1gy
04-27-2009, 07:15 PM
Andre Smith the most can't miss LT prospect since Orlando Pace?? Are you kidding me? He's not even the most can't miss LT prospect since Jake Long.

Just because I saw every game he played and disagree with most "experts" does not make me wrong. See me in 3-4 years if you want to argue this point. From all the football I've watched since the 80's, Andre Smith is the most dominant LT I have ever seen in college. He is a lot like Tommy Harris was at Oklahoma, but he was even more dominant as a starting Freshman.

Keep it bookmarked and come back here in a couple of years if he's looking terrible, which I highly doubt. I am more shocked that nobody is poopoo-ing the 2nd overall pick. My Falcons got a better player than him in Sam Baker late in the 1st round of last year's draft.

themaninblack
04-27-2009, 07:26 PM
The Bengals have no business taking those players. They need to rebuild their lockerroom.

The classic example of what the Bengals are about is F-tagging a K, letting TJ Housh go for nothing, and keeping Chad Johnson... It should have been the other way around....

A team that cared about building a winning team would have tagged Housh and dumped Chad Johnson on the first non-rival with 50-cents on the dollar offer. They're constantly dumping good players with great character and intangibles for trash-ass turds who have zero concept of "team".

They show more love for turds like Stacy Andrews's than Willie Anderson's/Eric Steinbach's, Chad Johnson's than TJ Housh's, etc. And it's quite obvious that this is why they keep losing.

If you think TJ Housmanzadeh has great character, you have no business posting in this thread. TJ wanted to leave and we offered him a GREAT deal to stay around. I hated to see Willie go as hes one of the best players/people we've ever had here. It was unfortunate but it was really just the nature of the beast moreso than anything that was the Bengals fault. We can't afford to give that much money to a backup. We placed some faith in Andrews and we were wrong, but that really has NOTHING to do with the type of person he is. I wasn't all that worried about seeing Steinbach go because I have always felt he was more of a product of those around him when he was here. He was an athletic guard who offered little in the straight ahead power game yet he wanted the money of a top guard like Steve Hutchinson. All that said, I think we replaced him with an even better player(as far as being complete) in Andrew Whitworth. It seems to me you are just making a ton of assumptions about one's character and how that relates to our FO instead of actually knowing anything about what you are talking about. It was more about the situation than anything else with most every player you have mentioned.

Sure, we took some risks in this draft but every single team does. We act like these kids have "bad character" yet we forget how young these guys really are. I don't expect a 20 something year old kid to be as mature as the draft process makes it seem like they should be. I'm basically the same age as most of the guys getting drafted this year and I think alot of the picks we made that have character issues are just simple cases of immaturity.

Smith made some mistakes but I am comfortable with the risk associated with that pick because his selection has been backed by such people as Nick Saban and Willie Anderson himself.I also think the reason he was picked over Monroe is his ability to play RT. I think they have plenty of confidence in Anthony Collins and with good reason

Maualuga has a pretty similar concern but given where he was drafted, I see no way in hell we pass up on him. We need a MLB to groom behind Dhani, and it seems like we got one of the best in the entire draft for great value. He also comes into a situation where he is going to have a bunch of high character guys surrounding him in Rivers, Dhani Jones, Brandon Johnson, Domata Peko, Ndukwe, and many others who will be looking out for him. He also has Jeff Fitzgerald as a LB coach who I am sure will get the best out of him.

With Micheal Johnson I understand the very real concerns about his inconsistent play. Does that really speak to his character or is there something else going on here that everyone is unaware of? I dont know, but I do know that drafting a kid in the third god damn round with that type of skillset is pretty rare. Once again, the value is just too much to pass up especially when we have such a terrible pass rush.

The only other player with any concerns whatsoever is Bernard Scott. These concerns are very real and this is the only pick that I question.

PalmerToCJ
04-27-2009, 09:11 PM
It always makes me LOL when people call TJ a high character guy as if he was some kind of leader in the locker room. I will miss his toughness but I won't miss his little tantrums at all.

griff2213
04-27-2009, 09:22 PM
LMAO at the nOOb that thinks that Rey has character issues...go learn something scrub. Nobody cares about what some kid did during a party in his freshman year, hahahaha what a n00b.

Get a ****** clue he does have character issues. And it doesnt even matter if he doesnt have character issues the Bengals have no business drafting Andre Smith or Michael Johnson with the state of the franchise and locker room. Cool man you got more rep points than me you must be super knowledgeable. Who calls somebody a n00b andway??? Like huh?????? You're pretty dope dude.

griff2213
04-27-2009, 09:26 PM
I actually think all those players probably have a good chance of succeeding but when you're franchise is in such a sorry state, you have to make a commitment to build from the bottom up and just draft high character guys instead of prison rats like they usually draft.

AkiliSmith
04-27-2009, 09:26 PM
Get a ****** clue he does have character issues. And it doesnt even matter if he doesnt have character issues the Bengals have no business drafting Andre Smith or Michael Johnson with the state of the franchise and locker room. Cool man you got more rep points than me you must be super knowledgeable. Who calls somebody a n00b andway??? Like huh?????? You're pretty dope dude.
Cool dude you've been in the locker room before? You must have some good connections to be able to hang out in the Bengals locker room.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2009, 09:44 PM
GM Bill Polian and the Colts are known to have pretty good drafts. Do you really think Indianapolis has that much more money to spend on scouting?

If you are a small market team like Cincy, Pittsburgh or Indy, you must compensate by putting together a FO and coaching staff that is 1st class.
H..mmm Brown vs Polian, Lewis vs Dungy, need I go further.
Revenue will cripple a small market team that cannot put together the right people because there is no room for error.

Iamcanadian
04-27-2009, 09:51 PM
For some reason the analysts on NFL Network, Mayock specifically, feel obligated to build the case against Michael Johnson that not only is he not worth a 1st round grade, but that he's undeserving of being drafted before the 6th round.

This is nonsense IMO. Mike's had really good games, and performances where his effort alone has preserved a win for GT.

True he is also inconsistent, but when you understand how he was used at GT and played on special teams as a full time starter on defense, I think the explanation is simple; effort or intensity begins with conditioning. It's an old cliche, but still very true, "fatigue makes cowards of us all".

I think once Michael Johnson gets his conditioning up to par and understands the effort he needs to play with to be a star in the NFL, I can easily see him raising his level of play.

At worst he's a solid starter for 10 years who occasionally makes plays and always has a chance to get the QB when he rushes the pocket.

I'm sorry but he didn't last as long in this draft as he did because Mayock didn't like him. He lasted because the majority of teams especially the solid teams avoided him like the plague. Obviously the top GM's in the business basically agreed with Mayock because Johnson's #'s are off the charts.
If Johnson had been picked by a top team you could argue that Mayock was way off the charts but being the 3rd pick of the Bengals hardly is much of an endorsement.

parrish_lemar24DBSkins
04-28-2009, 05:14 AM
Iamcanadian, you make it sound as if Michael Johnson was a reach in the 3rd!!!

The Bengals aren't the only team that would have picked him in the 3rd if he were available.

rojones82
04-28-2009, 08:17 AM
This thread seems to be full to the brim of bandwagon Bengal haters. Just worry about you're own team, you must be soo happy with the draft you guys had you felt you had to come and post this sh1t.

Seriously !

Bernard Scott is the only real worry and this will prove to be the case. And he was a 6th round comp pick.

Get real people !