PDA

View Full Version : Offseason Summary Thoughts (Spoiler: NFC East Bias)


bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Its finally over, and since its that slow time of year, i figure id just post some random thoughts on the offseason.

-The Philadelphia Eagles had the best offseason in the league. I'm not very high on Stacy Andrews, but nabbing Jason Peters, Ellis Hobbs along with Maclin and McCoy, and Clint Ingram, they had an incredible offseason.

The already have an incredible defense, losing Dawkins won't hurt as much as people think, they have Quentin Demps and now got Hobbs to strengthen that secondary. They now have the best oline in the NFL, they have a great TE duo in Celek and Ingram, and with Jackson, Maclin, and Westbrook/McCoy, they can stretch a defense in so many ways, they're going to be tough to beat.

The way they love to screen pass, with Westbrook, Maclin, Jackson, and McCoy they're going to really have some fun out there. Plus their deep ball capabilities are very dangerous. That team is going to stretch the hell out of a defense. On top of that, my main concern with them, which was the health of Westbrook, is a moot point now. McCoy will just step right in and give them very similar play to Westy. They won't miss a beat anymore.

Although the one flaw is still a lack of a power run game. That could ultimately be the deciding factor in their fate this season.

-No homer: but I also felt the Giants had a great offseason. Our draft was great, we have serious depth all across the board, and our pass rush is almost unfair.

Sintim, Robbins, Bernard, and Kiwi. Thats our BACKUP dline. Our pass rush is going to be insane this year.

And with Sintim and Boley on board, we finally have some linebackers worth caring for, although Pierce is still a fat ass.

Offensively, we are obviously a worse team without Plaxico. But I think we'll have enough to be competitors at least. I'm not calling us SB favorites by any means, in fact I think the Eagles are the best in the East right now, but I think we can compete. Andre Brown was a great pick up as well, so was Beckum. We have pieces.

Now we just have to hope and pray the useless man known as Kevin Gilbride will know what to do with em.

-Is Josh McDaniels the Isiah Thomas of football? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the guys he picked in the draft, but some head scratching moves.

Trading Cutler? epic fail

Drafting a RB in the first round with the 12th pick when you signed 2 RBs in the offseason to go along with Hillis, who thrived last year? epic fail

Trading a 1st you obtained with the Cutler pick for Alphonso Smith? super epic fail

Alienating and losing the confidence of pretty much the whole team before the season even started? Suicide.

I don't hate the picks he made, but i hated what he did in FA, and how he went about getting his guys in the draft were a major head scratcher. This is the problem i have with Bellichick disciples. They all come marching into town thinking they are God, and they flex their muscles and their schemez, and think they can outcoach everyone and be the next coming of Bellichick himself.

But they're not. None of them are, and none of them ever will be. Bellichick wins with players. He's smart enough to understand that. All his disciples are so enamoured with the "philosophy" that they forget the most important piece to a football team is the players themselves. And thats why they all fail miserably.

-The Bears made the right call getting Jarron Gilbert. From my personal scouting of him, I always had him pegged as a Tampa 2 UT, not a 3-4 DE. He goes to a perfect fit, and I think he'll thrive there.

-The Bengals had a great draft, but they have to hope they can get the most out of the talent they have. I have confidence in Andre Brown, but that environment scares me. He could get influenced easily. I love Rey, but again, he needs good people around him, and he doesn't have that in Cinncy. Michael Johnson is just a lazy sack of ****, and needs guys to get on him.

Basically, all 3 guys need a strong leadership presence around them to succeed. Do they have that in Cinncy? I don't know. I like the potential of this draft, and the Bengals could potentially have a sick D next year, but theres a lot of bad vibes in that lockerroom. They have talent on that team, but they have to overcome a lot of politics to realize their potential.

-When I look at what Atlanta is doing, I think one thing: blue collar. And I love it. They are not getting flashy guys, but they are getting hard working blue collar guys who will strengthen that lockerroom and provide quality play. Its more of a team over individual talent philosophy, and I love it. It kind of reminds me of the old school Giants, when we had a bunch of blue collar guys on our roster. Except the major difference of course is this Atlanta team has a qb and those 90s Giants teams didn't.

I really like the direction Atlanta is going in.

-Dallas...erm...yeah. Well, let's look at it this way. Dallas's fate this season really moreso depends on who they already had on the roster, not on their draft. If they can stay healthy to avoid depth concerns, and if Roy Williams can step up, this team can be dangerous.

I really think however, they can be had in the run game. They slant into gaps, mainly because of their lack of a true NT, and the lack of quality on that dline. If you slant wrong, you're done. We saw it happen in the Ravens game last year. Overall I think their defense is fine, but a strong running team should be able to give them some trouble. That offensive line also is getting worse with age.

The difference between the Eagles/Giants, and the Cowboys: The Eagles and Giants are dominant in the trenches. The Cowboys are weak in the trenches. That doesn't bode well for those December/Jan games, which has always been their Achilles heal.

-People sleep on the Redskins. That defense is going to be nasty. It was already nasty, now with Haynesworth and Orakpo, its going to be nastier. I see the NFC East having 3 defenses in the top 5 this year. This being one of them.

Everyone wrote off their offensive aquisitions last year, but i think thats unfair. It takes time. And Zorn has a year under his belt. I dunno, I just think they are getting written off too soon. I like their chances.

-I don't like what Seattle did. First off, I know I'll get killed for this, but I don't view Aaron Curry as a top 5 talent. He's eerily similar to AJ Hawk. He does everything good, but what does he do great? He's a "safe" pick, but he's not going to be a guy who changes a game. I don't see the value there. On top of that, you let go of LeeRoy Hill, which makes this a sideways move. On top of that, you pass up on Eugene Monroe? Bad choices.

I don't know how Jim Mora tricked Seattle into giving him the job, but I don't like the future in Seattle.

-The Chiefs...look, I can see why they drafted Tyson Jackson. I like his game a lot, and think he's going to be a good player. And I understand that Pioli builds his 3-4 defense from the trenches up, which is what you're supposed to do. And I also understand that no pass rusher was worth a top 3 pick, bc I also had most of the 2nd round pass rushers graded similarly to the 1st round guys, and I also believe that Curry is not as special as advertised.

But...why not get Raji? Raji would be the NT they are looking for, and in my eyes, would give more than Tyson Jackson to that 3-4 defense. And if not Raji, why not take Eugene Monroe.

I know everyone says "oh well they have Brandon Albert. So what? Albert was a top 15 pick, move his ass to RT and establish yourselves a dominant pair of book ends to protect the guy you just gave 36 million to play qb.

I think at the end of the season, we'll all like this pick. I really do. I think Tyson Jackson was a good call, but I also think they could have made a better call in Raji or Monroe.

-People want to kill SD for taking Larry English. Not me. I love the pick. First off, I feel Shaun Phillips is overrated, and his contract is coming up. Also, Merriman's contract is coming up and you never know how he responds to ACL surgery. On top of that, I LOVE Larry English. I agree with Mayock, I see Lamar Woodley in him. He's a great pass rusher, and I had him graded very similarly to Orakpo. Good call. I thought he would be a 2nd round steal, but in the middle of the 1st, thats right where I think he should have gone.

-As I've eluded to earlier, I honestly believe that the 2nd round pass rushers are just as high caliber as the 1st round guys. Sintim, Barwin, Kruger, Brown, all those guys are so similar to Orakpo, Matthews, and Maybin (who I think will bust) I see no reason to reach for a pass rusher in the top 10. Which is why none went that far.

And this draft, to me was all about the 2nd round. I think the teams that went back and collected a myriad of 2nd round picks were the smart teams. The talent in the 2nd round was just as good as the 1st round. And you're talking a lot less money. It was a great idea to collect 2nd round picks this year.

-Baltimore: Michael Oher + Paul Kruger = win.

-Is it just me or is Pittsburgh drafting players that could double up as both guys who can fit LeBeau's 3-4 scheme, but also guys who would transition easily into a Tampa 2 scheme?

Woodley, Timmons, now Hood...i dunno. We'll see what happens.

Ok, theres plenty more I can write, but I'm getting lazy now. I probably wrote enough as is.

I'll add more later if need be.


-I love what the Jaguars did. Games are won and lost in the trenches, and the Jags have a great oline on paper now. Monroe was a steal at #8, they picked up Tra Thomas who still has some gas left on the tank, and Britton. Now Im not a big Britton fan, I hate short arms on my tackles, but I can see them moving him inside to LG or play RT. Id prefer Britton at LG, and Thomas at RT with Monroe at LT. Manawai at RG, thats a pretty damn good oline. They need to gel, but they'll be pretty damn good. Invest in MJD early in fantasy football.

Not to mention that Holt is underrated and still has gas left in the tank as well. Watch him have a bounceback year in Jacksonville. So will my boy David Garrard. Now they gotta hope Reggie Nelson and that defense has a bounceback year too. I love Groves and Harvey, and I love Nelson. I think Mathis is overrated, but we'll see. This draft will depend on 1 thing: Was it worth taking Monroe over Raji? Having Raji with Harvey and Groves would have gave them the best young promising dline in the league. Monroe gives them a franchise LT for the next 5 years minimum. But its easier finding a LT than it is a guy like BJ Raji. Raji could have been an Albert Haynesworth like presence on that dline.

Me personally, Id go with Raji. Im a defense nut. But I still love the Monroe pick. It was definitely safer.

-I like the Titans offense. With more creativity out of the use of Chris Johnson, this offense can be nasty. They have an incredible oline, Collins is underrated as a qb, they have a solid TE set, and their WRs now with Britt are legit. If they can use Chris Johnson better in the pass game, this offense can be decent.

And don't sleep on my boy Kevin Vickerson. Remember the name. He's going to have a great year. I like the DT pickup in the draft, because we don't know if Vickerson is an every down guy and a rotation is probably better. Round 2 may have been early, but they have a great dline coach and Fisher knows what he's doing.

They need upgrades in the LB core though. They need a stud playmaker in the LB core. This defense won't be as good without Fat Al, but its still going to be good. A pass rusher is needed too. I don't like their End rotation all that much.

-Being a NE Patriot fan and a fan of the draft must be frustrating. I don't like the constant acquisitions of old players in FA, and I don't like the fact they passed on pass rushers in the draft. I like Chung, and I like Brace, but I think the picks could have been used more effectively. Now they have a solid safety duo in Merriweather and Chung, and the acquisition of Brace always them to rotate NTs which gives them the ability to run a 3 man front all 3 downs, which is HUGE for a 2 gap Parcells 3-4 style defense.

But the lack of pass rushing backers could bite them in the butt. There were so many quality guys in the 2nd round too. They had their pick of any of them, and passed on all of them. Thats a lot of faith in Crable and Thomas. We'll see if it was a good idea.

Trading Hobbs is putting a lot of faith in their 2nd year CBs too as well as Butler. Vollmer over Beatty was questionable. I love the pick of Brandon Tate though, and while I do knock them for passing on pass rushers, I do like Chung and Brace. They just do things differently, and while it leaves the rest of us scratching our heads, it works. So you can't knock them.

-I liked Sanchez more than Stafford before Mayock said it. So I think the Jets made a wise move in getting their guy. Im not a big fan of him starting this year however.

-You won't find a bigger Parcells knobslobber than me. But I don't like what he did with this draft. Pat White in the 2nd? Don't like that at all. Vontae Davis over a pass rusher? Don't like that either. I won't be surprised if the Dolphins have a down year this year, especially with the Pats getting Brady back and the Jets getting better.

-Didn't like what the Bills did at all. Don't like Maybin, I think he's going to bust, and not addressing OT was a head scratcher. Factor in a bad coaching staff, a qb who I was high on, but now I question if he's become gun shy, and a guy like TO who will destroy his confidence, and its not looking good for Buffalo.

My boy Kawika Mitchell is a beast though.

-I like the pickups of Donald Brown and Fili Moala for the Colts. The Colts love to spin and Moala brings a guy inside who can do just that. That dline is going to be hard to block on 3rd down. And Brown is just a great player. He was my favorite back in this draft. The Colts want to be more of a running team, and with Brown and Addai they can be just that.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 10:36 AM
holy ****, i wrote a lot, and thats not even half of what i wanna say.

bored of education
04-28-2009, 10:45 AM
I read this and I like a lot of your ideas and thoughts. Much respect for putting in the time to do that.

My main areas I want to touch on are as follows

1. Pittsburgh's drafting. I remember when they drafted Timmons I knew they were dratfing people that could fit both C2 4-3 and 3-4 types. If LaBeau ever kicks the bucket they have the personel to run hybrid or focus on one or the other. I think it is very smart, and obviously has produced results.

2. The Chiefs off season. I really feel that this off season was a lame duck offseason for Pioli and I like the fact he did get a franchse Qb and a veteran stop gap presence on the D for a 2nd round pick. Highway robbery no matter what the Pats think of the value of mid to late 1st round picks. No one has aclue..even Pioli as to who fits and who does not fit for that defense. That's why I think they brought in Vrable and Zach to help with a transition. They could have drafted Raji yes, but they could have felt the versatility that TJack provides is more valuable during the transition process than Raji? I don't know. I think KC made enough moves this off season to prove some points that this TEAM is going in a new direction and that no job is safe and no one is guaranteed a spot. But the overall off season I don't even want to grade until next year or the year after.

themaninblack
04-28-2009, 10:51 AM
I just want to know how everyone is getting such inside access to the Bengals' locker room?


We drafted Andre Smith btw, not Andre Brown.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 10:55 AM
I read this and I like a lot of your ideas and thoughts. Much respect for putting in the time to do that.

My main areas I want to touch on are as follows

1. Pittsburgh's drafting. I remember when they drafted Timmons I knew they were dratfing people that could fit both C2 4-3 and 3-4 types. If LaBeau ever kicks the bucket they have the personel to run hybrid or focus on one or the other. I think it is very smart, and obviously has produced results.

2. The Chiefs off season. I really feel that this off season was a lame duck offseason for Pioli and I like the fact he did get a franchse Qb and a veteran stop gap presence on the D for a 2nd round pick. Highway robbery no matter what the Pats think of the value of mid to late 1st round picks. No one has aclue..even Pioli as to who fits and who does not fit for that defense. That's why I think they brought in Vrable and Zach to help with a transition. They could have drafted Raji yes, but they could have felt the versatility that TJack provides is more valuable during the transition process than Raji? I don't know. I think KC made enough moves this off season to prove some points that this TEAM is going in a new direction and that no job is safe and no one is guaranteed a spot. But the overall off season I don't even want to grade until next year or the year after.

its odd finding guys who fit the 3-4 and Tampa 2 philosophy. the mentality of the positions are so different, yet somehow the Steelers made it work. great scouting on their part.

My thing is, what kind of 3-4 is Pioli building for? He's always been drafting for the Parcells 2 gap 3-4 system, and raji would thrive in that scheme. So will Jackson, but Raji is the more important position.

bored of education
04-28-2009, 10:58 AM
its odd finding guys who fit the 3-4 and Tampa 2 philosophy. the mentality of the positions are so different, yet somehow the Steelers made it work. great scouting on their part.

My thing is, what kind of 3-4 is Pioli building for? He's always been drafting for the Parcells 2 gap 3-4 system, and raji would thrive in that scheme. So will Jackson, but Raji is the more important position.

MAYBE the Chiefs will sign Wilfork if he doesn't get an extention :)

nvm that would be alot of money invested in the front line :/

brat316
04-28-2009, 11:00 AM
I always like your in depth writing. More more more.

TitanHope
04-28-2009, 11:08 AM
Ooooh, do the AFC South next!!! :D

umphrey
04-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Would like to hear your thoughts on GB. To me, their draft made the offseason.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 11:25 AM
Ooooh, do the AFC South next!!! :D

give me some time, i'll edit them in. i need to do more hw on it first.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Would like to hear your thoughts on GB. To me, their draft made the offseason.

liked it. although I don't know if i'd choose Matthews over Sintim or Kruger, or even Barwin in a 3-4 defense.

People underestimate how much Corey Williams did for that defense. Losing him, along with injuries to Barnett are the main reason why that defense took such a nosedive this year.

Now with Raji, you have that anchor against the run. Barnett is healthy. Hawk will be in the one role where he might succeed in. Matthews is in a nice role, the only issue i have is Kampman, and how he translates to the new scheme.

Also, Matthews legs are very thin. He needs to bulk up to be an effective 3-4 Rushbacker. Can he bulk up anymore?

I dunno. I always viewed him as an attacking 4-3 linebacker because of his thin lower body.

All in all, I think the defense improved, and I think GB will be a contender for the North next year. I'm a big Rodgers fan, and think they can have a bounceback year.

While the North doesn't have as much talent as the East, the competitiveness of the division will be very entertaining to watch. I think 3 teams have a shot to win it.

bsaza2358
04-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Given the genetics, I'd say Matthews will be a productive player, if not more, for a long time in the league. He has a great head on his shoulders, and I think his hips are wide enough to accommodate another 5-10 lbs of muscle on the legs. He needs to add weight and strength, and that should come next year. For now, they can kinda hide him in the scheme.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 11:46 AM
Given the genetics, I'd say Matthews will be a productive player, if not more, for a long time in the league. He has a great head on his shoulders, and I think his hips are wide enough to accommodate another 5-10 lbs of muscle on the legs. He needs to add weight and strength, and that should come next year. For now, they can kinda hide him in the scheme.

great point.

I love everything about the guy. My main concern is his ability to pack on that lower body muscle. If he can do that, I think they got themselves one hell of a player.

I felt Sintim was the safer pick. And I felt in a 3-4 defense, Sintim could have been DROY.

In our scheme, he'll need some time to adjust, but I still like what he can potentially bring to the Giants defense.

bsaza2358
04-28-2009, 11:48 AM
Sintim is a safer pick because he has the physical build to impact immediately. However, I think Matthews has excellent long term potential, and the family history doesn't lie. Matthews needs to add the bulk down low regardless of scheme or position. I think he can be a SAM, WILL, or rush backer.

TitanHope
04-28-2009, 11:49 AM
give me some time, i'll edit them in. i need to do more hw on it first.

Lol, you don't have to right now. I haven't even graded the Titans draft yet... I should probably get around to doing that...

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Sintim is a safer pick because he has the physical build to impact immediately. However, I think Matthews has excellent long term potential, and the family history doesn't lie. Matthews needs to add the bulk down low regardless of scheme or position. I think he can be a SAM, WILL, or rush backer.

in our schemes that the Giants and Eagles run, I had him pegged as a WILL with his current body type.


I'm a huge Matthews fan. I was surprised Parcells wasn't all over that. He had Parcells pick written all over him.

bsaza2358
04-28-2009, 11:52 AM
I'm more surprised (like Scott) that Parcells broke his comfort zone and went with Davis. Great idea with the upside, but he took a risk, and I respect that. Very much not a Parcells-like pick. I think Matthews would've been very strong in Miami, but CB was a bigger need.

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 11:54 AM
I'm more surprised (like Scott) that Parcells broke his comfort zone and went with Davis. Great idea with the upside, but he took a risk, and I respect that. Very much not a Parcells-like pick. I think Matthews would've been very strong in Miami, but CB was a bigger need.

yeah that struck me as odd too. Davis is not a Parcells guy. But then again, neither was Keyshawn Johnson, and he wound up loving Parcells.


The Pat White pick was a head scratcher. Gotta love Parcells though. He's an innovator. He first innovated the 3-4 defense, now he's trying to reinvent the way offense is played by working closely with his staff on getting this wildcat offense going.

bsaza2358
04-28-2009, 11:59 AM
I think Pat White is just a football player. The guy can play. He has value there. I think he adds to the wildcat package, and I think the guy can be a good extra back and slot receiver. He is a winner and a gamer. I'm not sure about the value in the second, but the guy is talented and will step in and help immediately in subpackages.

Saints-Tigers
04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
The Chiefs seem to be pretty confident with Tank Tyler as a NT.

Diehard
04-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Alienating and losing the confidence of pretty much the whole team before the season even started? Suicide.


The rest of your comments are casting things in a very negative light, but this one seems like straight up fabrication. Maybe it's something you want to see happen because McDaniels pissed in your cornflakes when you were a child?

There seems to be a lot of excitement about the changes and new schemes. The defensive players have been particularly positive - perhaps it's nice not to be "second class citizens" anymore? The only negative stuff I heard came from Cutler and his best buddy Scheffler... and, as Adam Schefter pointed out a few weeks ago, it didn't matter who the new coach was, that person was going to have a big problem with Cutler.

Menardo75
04-28-2009, 12:36 PM
Did the Eagles really get Clint Ingram? Or does he mean Cornelius ?

bigbluedefense
04-28-2009, 12:41 PM
Did the Eagles really get Clint Ingram? Or does he mean Cornelius ?

Cornelius, my bad, typo.

The rest of your comments are casting things in a very negative light, but this one seems like straight up fabrication. Maybe it's something you want to see happen because McDaniels pissed in your cornflakes when you were a child?

There seems to be a lot of excitement about the changes and new schemes. The defensive players have been particularly positive - perhaps it's nice not to be "second class citizens" anymore? The only negative stuff I heard came from Cutler and his best buddy Scheffler... and, as Adam Schefter pointed out a few weeks ago, it didn't matter who the new coach was, that person was going to have a big problem with Cutler.

I don't care what the players say. Body language and their reactions prior to the Cutler trade was all I needed to see to know how they really felt. This questionable draft has only turned more heads.

I could very well be wrong, and if I am, i will be the first to admit to it, as I did with Matt Ryan in ATL, and Mangini in NY 3 years ago, but I'm expecting a 4-12 season from this team.

Xenos
04-28-2009, 12:45 PM
-People want to kill SD for taking Larry English. Not me. I love the pick. First off, I feel Shaun Phillips is overrated, and his contract is coming up. Also, Merriman's contract is coming up and you never know how he responds to ACL surgery. On top of that, I LOVE Larry English. I agree with Mayock, I see Lamar Woodley in him. He's a great pass rusher, and I had him graded very similarly to Orakpo. Good call. I thought he would be a 2nd round steal, but in the middle of the 1st, thats right where I think he should have gone.

Phillips has four more years on his contract, including this one. He's not going anywhere unless it's a trade. Especially after all the incidents he's been in recently. But I digress. We couldn't pressure the QB at all last season, and the lack of a pass rush really exposed our secondary. I suppose we're going the Giant's route by drafting another potential elite pass rusher.

B-Dawk
04-28-2009, 12:49 PM
do you think parcells could've been scared off of taking mathews by the carpenter failure? not exactly the same player but there are similarities.

steelernation77
04-28-2009, 12:58 PM
The Steelers are drafting guys that fit their defense right now. Being consistently one of the top defenses in the league, I have a very hard time seeing them switching to a 4-3, even when Lebeau leaves. Keith Bulter (the LB coach) will take over and run the same system.

bsaza2358
04-28-2009, 01:01 PM
Parcells doesn't seem like a guy who easily changes direction, even in the face of a single failure. 1 bad draft pick out of many that rebuilt the Cowboys wouldn't necessarily haunt him. I sincerely doubt that it freaked him out so much that he took Davis. He may have passed looking at draft depth and the talent drop-off.

Mr. Stiller
04-28-2009, 01:01 PM
its odd finding guys who fit the 3-4 and Tampa 2 philosophy. the mentality of the positions are so different, yet somehow the Steelers made it work. great scouting on their part.

My thing is, what kind of 3-4 is Pioli building for? He's always been drafting for the Parcells 2 gap 3-4 system, and raji would thrive in that scheme. So will Jackson, but Raji is the more important position.

I don't necessarily think they're looking to build a hybrid.

IMO. I see Tomlin adding subtle changes to LeBeau's philosophy.

When Harrison/Woodley started this season we played Cover 2 way more than Cover 3 (Our normal base coverage B.T.)

Tomlin Added Timmons/Woodley. Timmons is a wildcard. He can cover your Slot WR, He can blitz, he can rush off the edge, if he shows the ability to stop the run, this kid should be a probowler. He's insane. Here's a perfect example of what Tomlin's bringing in. The Kid has the athleticism to play any LB position and probably even Safety. He Covered the Bengals Chris Henry last year in Man Coverage. Probably a guy Cowher would've never considered only because he wanted the power guys (Earl Holmes, LeVon Kirkland, etc.).

Woodley... First 3-4 OLB In pittsburgh who probably could play DE and succeed as well. Porter, Haggans, Gildon, Lloyd... all great passrushers, couldn't play DE. Woodley is a more athletic version of Kevin Greene in this defense, and I think Tomlin had heavy influence on this pick.

Ziggy Hood. Hood could play 3-tech in a T2 Offense, but he brings yet again another dimension we lack in the front 3, a guy who can hit a gap and put pressure on the run game. I expect to see him playing 0-Tech or 3-Tech on passing downs, allowing us to not have to blitz the interior to get a push. John Mitchell was quoted as saying his deficiencies on film were because he was doing what he was being asked to do. He was attacking his gap and if it was the wrong gap, he can't make a play. But they feel he has all the tools, with Great leadership and can make his way as a DE in the 3-4, and provide the potential pass rush, which is another thing for DC's to scheme around, a guy in the Steelers front 3 who can attack the QB.


So while I think that it looks like Tomlin may be gearing up for a Scheme change, or even building a hybrid. I think he's just adding a few pieces to a stout defense, that they lack, or prior to his arrival would've avoided... and we've been extremely better for it.

tjsunstein
04-28-2009, 01:03 PM
That's more than five times I've heard Cornelius referred to as Clint since he's been drafted. Sounds like it's gonna be a long career for him.

As to what has been said about Matthews, I agree.

Pretty solid rant.

bored of education
04-28-2009, 01:03 PM
i think they are drafting players that can fit any system and given the proper coaching can excel in which ever system they are running. I wouldnt say gearing for a change though. You can see a Tomlin influence though to an extent on the current D

steelernation77
04-28-2009, 01:05 PM
i think they are drafting players that can fit any system and given the proper coaching can excel in which ever system they are running. I wouldnt say gearing for a change though. You can see a Tomlin influence though to an extent on the current D

Tomlin's influence in my opinion is most obvious in the DBs. He loves smart guys whether or not they are especially fast.

Mr. Stiller
04-28-2009, 01:10 PM
Tomlin's influence in my opinion is most obvious in the DBs. He loves smart guys whether or not they are especially fast.

It's not even that.

The zone scheme never needed fast guys (DeShea Townsend, perfect example).

The fact is, you see guys that Tomlin drafts that Bill Cowher wouldn't even consider, let alone look at.

But the influence is obvious in the Timmons, Woodley, *** and Hood Picks.

Those guys are traditionally guys that Pittsburgh would've ignored (Maybe not woodley, but hey, LaMarr is no Alonzo Jackson).

Just the fact that the defense has been getting great players who normally wouldn't be considered, then added to the fact they utilize more cover 2 (Hence Troy having a career high in Pdefs and INT's last year) just goes to show his subtle changes are making impactful results.

steelernation77
04-28-2009, 01:15 PM
It's not even that.

The zone scheme never needed fast guys (DeShea Townsend, perfect example).

The fact is, you see guys that Tomlin drafts that Bill Cowher wouldn't even consider, let alone look at.

But the influence is obvious in the Timmons, Woodley, *** and Hood Picks.

Those guys are traditionally guys that Pittsburgh would've ignored (Maybe not woodley, but hey, LaMarr is no Alonzo Jackson).

Just the fact that the defense has been getting great players who normally wouldn't be considered, then added to the fact they utilize more cover 2 (Hence Troy having a career high in Pdefs and INT's last year) just goes to show his subtle changes are making impactful results.

Yeah it seems like the DBs we've been targeting are more in a Cover 2 mold.

The Unseen
04-28-2009, 01:20 PM
That's more than five times I've heard Cornelius referred to as Clint since he's been drafted. Sounds like it's gonna be a long career for him.

As to what has been said about Matthews, I agree.

Pretty solid rant.

That's because Clint Ingram is awes0mez

And yes, excellent rant. I wish I could rant as well as BBD. I'm also waiting to hear about the AFC South. Some people love what the Jaguars did and some don't.

Mr. Stiller
04-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Yeah it seems like the DBs we've been targeting are more in a Cover 2 mold.

Thats probably true..

Going for Gay/Barnett/Lewis When Cowher went after such stars like Ricardo Colclough/Bryant McFadden/LaVar Glover/ Hank Poteat

McFadden may be the only success story there and he's not with us anymore.


Don't know how much Tomlin's opinion or scouting effects the draft, but we seem to have had far less misses and seemingly better guys.

This is however, the first draft I'm excited about every pick.

derza222
04-28-2009, 02:07 PM
With the Bengals:

I think having Dhani Jones around could really help with Maualuga in a lot of ways. Keith Rivers should be a good influence on him as well. They've got a lot of SC guys there which I think helps, but I think from a playing standpoint as well as a temperament standpoint Jones really helps him.

Hopefully guys like Palmer, Whitworth, and Bobbie Williams can help provide a good example for Smith. I also know he's spoken to big Willie Anderson a lot, and while it would be nice to have Anderson back on the Bengals to help him out he should be a very good influence as well.

Michael Johnson basically just needs the rest of the defense along with Mike Zimmer and Marvin Lewis to get on his ass, but I don't think much should be expected. If he lives up to his talent level, the third round pick is just a massive bonus, but I don't think anybody really expects much. At that point, with his potential, he was probably worth the risk though.

Think they're building a very solid young team in Cincinnati, probably could use some slightly better veteran leadership but if the first two guys stay under control they should be in good shape. Winning should help everything though, and the locker room may be in better shape when 85 is gone.

fenikz
04-28-2009, 02:23 PM
No mention of the NFC Champions - epic fail

Da-Phins
04-28-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm more surprised (like Scott) that Parcells broke his comfort zone and went with Davis. Great idea with the upside, but he took a risk, and I respect that. Very much not a Parcells-like pick. I think Matthews would've been very strong in Miami, but CB was a bigger need.


Yeah I was shock when Parcells drafted Davis. I fully expected Parcells taking Darius Butler their. I guess Parcells has confidence that he can tone Davis down and keep him in check. Im sure he will have a sit down with Davis when he first gets to Miami. He's done that before with some players and i'm sure he will do that with Davis.

HawkeyeFan
04-28-2009, 04:39 PM
Great post!


I have one question though, what kind of hit was it for the Giants to lose Spagnuolo?

TimD
04-28-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the Jets and Browns offseason. I think those teams will be "linked" together for the next few years at least. Multiple former Jets on that team with Mangini and now the Sanchez trade.

Mr. Hero
04-28-2009, 05:15 PM
Great post!


I have one question though, what kind of hit was it for the Giants to lose Spagnuolo?

We'll find out when Sheridan calls his first game. Spags was a beast and he really did make us a better team, but I think Sheridan has picked up a lot from spags and will work a lot of things that worked for us last year into his game-plan.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
04-28-2009, 05:26 PM
1NnG5clnqdQ

bigbluedefense
05-03-2009, 01:18 PM
yeah....i know i said id add in more later, but im just feeling lazy now.

bigbluedefense
05-03-2009, 02:04 PM
ok i lied, added comments in italics.

Gay Ork Wang
05-03-2009, 02:26 PM
this needs more bears

diabsoule
05-03-2009, 02:33 PM
this needs more bears

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/bearsmovie/Poster3.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg39/morud3/grossman.jpg

bigbluedefense
05-03-2009, 02:44 PM
this needs more bears

Like I already said, I love the Gilbert pick.


Don't like the fact that you passed on Paul Kruger in round 2, although you probably don't get Gilbert in round 3 if you don't trade out of that pick, so its a wash.

The rest of your picks are a crap shoot. Your draft was Jay Cutler anyway, which was a win.

Although you still need to bulk up that defense, particularly in the 2ndary, and you still need a LT and WR (potentially) on offense. So its going to be a process for the Bears, and you'll have to do it without a 1st next year.

All in all, it was worth it, because franchise qbs don't grow on trees.

Gay Ork Wang
05-03-2009, 02:49 PM
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/bearsmovie/Poster3.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg39/morud3/grossman.jpg
thats what i wanted

Mr. Hero
05-03-2009, 03:01 PM
I'm going to defend the maybin pick for the bills. I prefered Orakpo, but neither is polished at all and if we're looking for pure tools maybin's first step might just be the best in this draft. He's remarkably quick and if he keeps his weight near 250 he'll work in that D. plus I think Schobel will help teach him a lot because schobel does a great job of using his hands and leverage to play around his size like Maybin will have to. I know everyone wanted them to find an LT to replace Peters and I think that it would've been a good move but the weakness of their offense last season was peters and the interior OL, Levitre and Wood should both end up rookie starters and Walker looked good at LT last season and if they wear teams out with their running attack he should do well since with trent back there they'll be more of a quick passing team anyway. Also think that Byrd will do good things for that secondary finally giving Whitner a partner worth starting. They should be much more effective running the ball this year and I expect a much better pass rush with maybin coming in and Ellis having had a year to develop. With a more efficient running game not only will marshawn finally break 4 ypc but that'll take pressure off trent and help open things up for him to find TO and Evans. I've got the bills contending for a WC spot but then again I thought they were a WC team last year as well.

bigbluedefense
05-03-2009, 03:23 PM
I'm going to defend the maybin pick for the bills. I prefered Orakpo, but neither is polished at all and if we're looking for pure tools maybin's first step might just be the best in this draft. He's remarkably quick and if he keeps his weight near 250 he'll work in that D. plus I think Schobel will help teach him a lot because schobel does a great job of using his hands and leverage to play around his size like Maybin will have to. I know everyone wanted them to find an LT to replace Peters and I think that it would've been a good move but the weakness of their offense last season was peters and the interior OL, Levitre and Wood should both end up rookie starters and Walker looked good at LT last season and if they wear teams out with their running attack he should do well since with trent back there they'll be more of a quick passing team anyway. Also think that Byrd will do good things for that secondary finally giving Whitner a partner worth starting. They should be much more effective running the ball this year and I expect a much better pass rush with maybin coming in and Ellis having had a year to develop. With a more efficient running game not only will marshawn finally break 4 ypc but that'll take pressure off trent and help open things up for him to find TO and Evans. I've got the bills contending for a WC spot but then again I thought they were a WC team last year as well.

i liked them as sleepers last year too. but with improvements within the division, i don't think thats the case this year. they're arguably the worst team in that division this year.

i like the other 3 teams more then them. plus they are probably the worst coached team in that division. they have upside, but they need a fresh start with a new coaching staff and a solid draft in 2010.

this year they just need to survive, and hopefully Trent Edwards takes the next step. i liked him a lot, but he regressed ALOT in the 2nd half of the season. he was never the same after that concussion.

Addict
05-03-2009, 03:33 PM
this needs more bears

http://www.lolsauce.com/RandomBS/Pedo%20bear.png

Mr. Hero
05-03-2009, 04:39 PM
i liked them as sleepers last year too. but with improvements within the division, i don't think thats the case this year. they're arguably the worst team in that division this year.

i like the other 3 teams more then them. plus they are probably the worst coached team in that division. they have upside, but they need a fresh start with a new coaching staff and a solid draft in 2010.

this year they just need to survive, and hopefully Trent Edwards takes the next step. i liked him a lot, but he regressed ALOT in the 2nd half of the season. he was never the same after that concussion.

I still like them more than the jets with Clemens/Sanchez under center and I don't think the difference between them and the fins is really in the fins favor. I completely agree that Jauron needs to be upgraded upon and that if Trent keeps playing like he did after he came back last year things will go south quickly, but Jauron is just a mediocre coach not a horrendous one, he won't stop them from competing and maybe making the playoffs with some luck, he hurts them more in the playoffs IMO. As for Trent I have high hopes that with an offseason to get healthy, an interior OL that isn't atrocious a dependable big receiver he'll take that next step putting them in position to be legit contenders next season once they bring in a good coach.

bigbluedefense
05-03-2009, 05:11 PM
I still like them more than the jets with Clemens/Sanchez under center and I don't think the difference between them and the fins is really in the fins favor. I completely agree that Jauron needs to be upgraded upon and that if Trent keeps playing like he did after he came back last year things will go south quickly, but Jauron is just a mediocre coach not a horrendous one, he won't stop them from competing and maybe making the playoffs with some luck, he hurts them more in the playoffs IMO. As for Trent I have high hopes that with an offseason to get healthy, an interior OL that isn't atrocious a dependable big receiver he'll take that next step putting them in position to be legit contenders next season once they bring in a good coach.

The Jets are an old team, but for this year, they're better than the Bills. I love Ryan and think he's going to do very well with this defense. Remember, for much of the season they were #3 in the league in sacks, and that was with a passive style of defense.

Factor in a stronger commitment to the run game from Ryan, and I like their chances.

The Dolphins will have a down year, I can see that. But I expect Buffalo to be right there with them. They don't have enough talent to overcome their coaching and a tough division.

CC.SD
05-03-2009, 06:25 PM
I just want to know how everyone is getting such inside access to the Bengals' locker room?


Police reports? Zing.

Agree with your thoughts on English BBD but I feel like it is still a second guessable pick; Merriman's return is as of this moment underrated and passing up a prospect like Oher could hurt as the season wears on our OT group.

Definitely agree about Eagles' firepower but also feel like their D could take a step back. Still think they are NFC favorites atm.

Chris Canty, Giant, is still an epic win.

eaglesalltheway
05-03-2009, 06:59 PM
BBD, I know I'm nitpicking, but its Cornelius Ingram, not Clint, haha.

Great analysis, I agree with a lot of what you have said. I would like to say that the acquisition of Leonard Weaver gives us that power back, one of the underrated additions to the team. Word is the team is planning on having Shawn at RT and sliding Stacey into RG, I'm not sure how much, if at all, that changes your opinion on the signing, but I think it is a great move by the team.

You aren't being a homer, as I've said in your team forum, I think the Giants had one of the best drafts. Losing Burres will hurt the offense. But with the rookie receivers you got, you have the pieces to replace him. Maybe not right away, but i'm sure you will have games where you get big contributions from Nicks, Barden, or Beckum. It just may not be consistent from either of them. I expect the same with Maclin and Ingram.

I look forward to watching the battles between the NFC East this year, especially the Giants, I think the Eagles and Giants are in the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFC, and its because of what you said, the trenches. The trench battles in these games are something I'm really looking forward to, on both sides of the ball.

eaglesalltheway
05-03-2009, 07:01 PM
I also think Dallas got an underrated signing in Olshansky, he will help out at DE for them. He will help their DL problems you mentioned. The Skins look to have a great D, as long as Albert keeps his game at a high level. I think Orakpo will be a monster for the Skins, maybe not right away, but I think he will be a great player. Those two additions make an already good D even better.

eaglesalltheway
05-03-2009, 07:06 PM
Definitely agree about Eagles' firepower but also feel like their D could take a step back. Still think they are NFC favorites atm.

Homer defense enabled...;)

How will the D take a step back? We lost the leadership in Dawk, other than that, our D is exactly the same. From a talent standpoint, we are in better shape. Dawk lost a lot of range last season, and played more of a Joker/LB role at times. Demps has that range that we need in our FS, and Mikell is a monster. Demps isn't as good in run support right now, but our front 7 is great in run support and he isn't bad ain run support. The drop off isn't big at all. I don't see how our defense loses a step at all honestly. That's my opinion, but there is factual logic that backs it, so take it how you want.

If this seems like I'm being ticked off, I'm not but reading over it it kinda seems like I am, lol.

CC.SD
05-03-2009, 09:37 PM
Homer defense enabled...;)

How will the D take a step back? We lost the leadership in Dawk, other than that, our D is exactly the same. From a talent standpoint, we are in better shape. Dawk lost a lot of range last season, and played more of a Joker/LB role at times. Demps has that range that we need in our FS, and Mikell is a monster. Demps isn't as good in run support right now, but our front 7 is great in run support and he isn't bad ain run support. The drop off isn't big at all. I don't see how our defense loses a step at all honestly. That's my opinion, but there is factual logic that backs it, so take it how you want.

If this seems like I'm being ticked off, I'm not but reading over it it kinda seems like I am, lol.

I know where you're at, honestly it's more of a gut feeling on my part than anything. I have a huge safety fetish and B-Dawk has always been such an integral part of that unit. On paper it all looks good but I wouldn't be 100% shocked if the pass rush had some trouble or the secondary had some difficulty coalescing. Like I said, I still think they're the NFC favorites.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 10:18 AM
Police reports? Zing.

Agree with your thoughts on English BBD but I feel like it is still a second guessable pick; Merriman's return is as of this moment underrated and passing up a prospect like Oher could hurt as the season wears on our OT group.

Definitely agree about Eagles' firepower but also feel like their D could take a step back. Still think they are NFC favorites atm.

Chris Canty, Giant, is still an epic win.

You're a big fan of the Canty pickup? I'm reserving judgment on that. I think he's a good player, but i'll be curious to see how he fits our system. he's a physical freak, thats for sure.

the only issue i can see with the Eagles defense is potentially having a dropoff in production along the dline. but its unlikely, because they have a good rotation.

BBD, I know I'm nitpicking, but its Cornelius Ingram, not Clint, haha.

Great analysis, I agree with a lot of what you have said. I would like to say that the acquisition of Leonard Weaver gives us that power back, one of the underrated additions to the team. Word is the team is planning on having Shawn at RT and sliding Stacey into RG, I'm not sure how much, if at all, that changes your opinion on the signing, but I think it is a great move by the team.

You aren't being a homer, as I've said in your team forum, I think the Giants had one of the best drafts. Losing Burres will hurt the offense. But with the rookie receivers you got, you have the pieces to replace him. Maybe not right away, but i'm sure you will have games where you get big contributions from Nicks, Barden, or Beckum. It just may not be consistent from either of them. I expect the same with Maclin and Ingram.

I look forward to watching the battles between the NFC East this year, especially the Giants, I think the Eagles and Giants are in the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFC, and its because of what you said, the trenches. The trench battles in these games are something I'm really looking forward to, on both sides of the ball.

yeah that was a typo, my bad.

I read about that, and I think its a great idea. I think Shawn Andrews would beast it at RT, and I always felt Stacy was more of a RG anyway. That would make your oline that much better.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 11:10 AM
You're a big fan of the Canty pickup? I'm reserving judgment on that. I think he's a good player, but i'll be curious to see how he fits our system. he's a physical freak, thats for sure.



I think there's no team in the NFL that will be able to focus in on him, with the rest of the Giants pass rush, and that he could beast up the field from inside against any guard out there. I look forward to the Osi/Tuck/Canty/Kiwi formation on 3rd and long, I'm not sure it's defendable.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 12:12 PM
I think there's no team in the NFL that will be able to focus in on him, with the rest of the Giants pass rush, and that he could beast up the field from inside against any guard out there. I look forward to the Osi/Tuck/Canty/Kiwi formation on 3rd and long, I'm not sure it's defendable.

Word on the street is Clint Sintim is going to get some action in that nickel dline as well.

we'll be rotating linemen a lot.

Brent
05-05-2009, 12:27 PM
Frankly, if I am playing the Giants, I am just hoping I can hold off all those rushers off for like 3 seconds so I can at least attempt a pass.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 12:29 PM
Word on the street is Clint Sintim is going to get some action in that nickel dline as well.

we'll be rotating linemen a lot.

Yah, Sintim too. They were running low on rushers, I guess. Ultimately all that depth is just such a great building block for postseason longevity, not to mention keeping the intensity up in the 4th quarter. Very jealous.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 12:52 PM
Yah, Sintim too. They were running low on rushers, I guess. Ultimately all that depth is just such a great building block for postseason longevity, not to mention keeping the intensity up in the 4th quarter. Very jealous.

You guys have started following our blueprint, never can have enough pass rusher, depending on how english gets used I'm very interested to see how the Chargers get after QBs with Merriman, English and Phillips in the fold.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 01:33 PM
Yah, Sintim too. They were running low on rushers, I guess. Ultimately all that depth is just such a great building block for postseason longevity, not to mention keeping the intensity up in the 4th quarter. Very jealous.

You guys have started following our blueprint, never can have enough pass rusher, depending on how english gets used I'm very interested to see how the Chargers get after QBs with Merriman, English and Phillips in the fold.

what he said ^

thats why i dont knock the selection of English at all. dude is a beast, and having 3 rushers is priceless. in nickel packages you can put one of those guys as down linemen and rush 2 as linebackers.

thats what dallas did a lot last year with Ware, Ellis and Spencer.

i really think Larry English is going to be a beast.

Giantsfan1080
05-05-2009, 01:36 PM
Giants are going to see a lot of 3 step drops and screens this year that's for sure. It's really the only way to play against our pass rush.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Frankly, if I am playing the Giants, I am just hoping I can hold off all those rushers off for like 3 seconds so I can at least attempt a pass.

teams figured out our pass rush actually. its built to shut down teams that do 5 and 7 step drops.


quick 3 step drops and max protect shuts our defense down. attack our linebackers in pass coverage.


thats been somewhat alleviated bc our pass coverage has improved a lot, with guys like Thomas, Phillips, and Boley seeing action this year. and our dline is much better than last year's dline which was pretty average to be honest, but still, in theory that strategy, along with screen passes and runs up the gut should work on our defense.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Giants are going to see a lot of 3 step drops and screens this year that's for sure. It's really the only way to play against our pass rush.

what he said ^

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 01:40 PM
what he said ^

thats why i dont knock the selection of English at all. dude is a beast, and having 3 rushers is priceless. in nickel packages you can put one of those guys as down linemen and rush 2 as linebackers.

thats what dallas did a lot last year with Ware, Ellis and Spencer.

i really think Larry English is going to be a beast.

Thanks guys, I've got my fingers crossed for English. I take a lot of pride in knowing my prospects but I still have to admit English is a bit of a mystery for me coming out of NIU. His highlight reels are insane and all reports are A+, so there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic considering with 56 and 95 around he'll be seeing a lot of 1 on 1 matchups.

It definitely is a ripoff of the G-men strategy; AJ Smith has put more than a few premium picks into anti-Patriot plans and nobody put together a better blueprint than the Giants.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Thanks guys, I've got my fingers crossed for English. I take a lot of pride in knowing my prospects but I still have to admit English is a bit of a mystery for me coming out of NIU. His highlight reels are insane and all reports are A+, so there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic considering with 56 and 95 around he'll be seeing a lot of 1 on 1 matchups.

It definitely is a ripoff of the G-men strategy; AJ Smith has put more than a few premium picks into anti-Patriot plans and nobody put together a better blueprint than the Giants.

he's got good speed, strong as an ox, GREAT leverage, good moves, smooth, got a motor, i love the guy. only question is his burst, but its not as much of a problem as ppl think. his burst is comparable to woodley's.

ive said before, i think the quality in pass rushers were pretty even in this draft. i thought English would be a round 2 steal, but at 17 where the Chargers picked him, thats just about right.

I know Mayock said it, but I agree. He's a more athletic Lamar Woodley. Same game. And look at how beastly Woodley is.

AJ knows talent.

I know you're close with Barden. Can you give me an honest, non partisan scouting report on him? I know thats impossible to ask, but you know him better than anybody.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 02:11 PM
he's got good speed, strong as an ox, GREAT leverage, good moves, smooth, got a motor, i love the guy. only question is his burst, but its not as much of a problem as ppl think. his burst is comparable to woodley's.

ive said before, i think the quality in pass rushers were pretty even in this draft. i thought English would be a round 2 steal, but at 17 where the Chargers picked him, thats just about right.

I know Mayock said it, but I agree. He's a more athletic Lamar Woodley. Same game. And look at how beastly Woodley is.

AJ knows talent.

I know you're close with Barden. Can you give me an honest, non partisan scouting report on him? I know thats impossible to ask, but you know him better than anybody.

Love the report, thanks; I think if he does have any kind of problems with burst it might be negated by how naturally he seems to fit into a 3-4 scheme.

Ramses is a tough guy to get an NFL-type assessment on simply because he is a superior talent who has played against...inferior talent on every level of his career so far. He has been absolutely dominant on all of those levels though. In high school, we ran a Wing T, obviously a run heavy scheme. This was great because we ran a 4-4 single safety defense and posted a lot of shutouts (thanks to yours truly, obviously.) The Wing T ground out the clock, the defense got off the field, but...

every once in a while we needed to actually score. And that meant it was time to lob it down the field to Ramses. Who was already 6'5, a tremendous leaper, and was faster than everyone. Undefendable.

Watching him in college I've seen him get much much stronger; at the combine he was as ripped as anyone, but he used to be a beanpole. With legit strength he conquered the only situation that ever gave him trouble, CBs who actually knew how to jam/play bump and run.

As far as his skillset and what he can do in the NFL, well he has been outjumping guys in the endzone his whole life, it's pretty much a given that at his size it's a strong suit. I would have to say that he's not the fastest guy on the field anymore, I don't see him taking many bubble screens to the house. But he's a student of the game and that includes studying his routes. For all the knocks about how "raw" he might be, his game is pretty refined, he can run the mid-range curl and block out the defender as well as anyone.

Coming up with something negative, I can't say I've ever seen him really perfect a double move because honestly I'm not sure he's ever needed to. That will change in the NFL. I'd be patient when asking him to make sudden direction changes in space. He's an enthusiastic blocker but maybe not overly great at it. He's also not a guy who is going to get a bunch of YAC, unless he steps up his game again, which is very possible.

He's a terrific prospect and a great guy, you guys are lucky to have him. I'm sure there will be a transition since it's such a step up but you can't ask for much more when it comes to physical attributes and love of the game.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 02:18 PM
Love the report, thanks; I think if he does have any kind of problems with burst it might be negated by how naturally he seems to fit into a 3-4 scheme.

Ramses is a tough guy to get an NFL-type assessment on simply because he is a superior talent who has played against...inferior talent on every level of his career so far. He has been absolutely dominant on all of those levels though. In high school, we ran a Wing T, obviously a run heavy scheme. This was great because we ran a 4-4 single safety defense and posted a lot of shutouts (thanks to yours truly, obviously.) The Wing T ground out the clock, the defense got off the field, but...

every once in a while we needed to actually score. And that meant it was time to lob it down the field to Ramses. Who was already 6'5, a tremendous leaper, and was faster than everyone. Undefendable.

Watching him in college I've seen him get much much stronger; at the combine he was as ripped as anyone, but he used to be a beanpole. With legit strength he conquered the only situation that ever gave him trouble, CBs who actually knew how to jam/play bump and run.

As far as his skillset and what he can do in the NFL, well he has been outjumping guys in the endzone his whole life, it's pretty much a given that at his size it's a strong suit. I would have to say that he's not the fastest guy on the field anymore, I don't see him taking many bubble screens to the house. But he's a student of the game and that includes studying his routes. For all the knocks about how "raw" he might be, his game is pretty refined, he can run the mid-range curl and block out the defender as well as anyone.

Coming up with something negative, I can't say I've ever seen him really perfect a double move because honestly I'm not sure he's ever needed to. That will change in the NFL. I'd be patient when asking him to make sudden direction changes in space. He's an enthusiastic blocker but maybe not overly great at it. He's also not a guy who is going to get a bunch of YAC, unless he steps up his game again, which is very possible.

He's a terrific prospect and a great guy, you guys are lucky to have him. I'm sure there will be a transition since it's such a step up but you can't ask for much more when it comes to physical attributes and love of the game.

hearing that gets me excited about the future of him and Nicks potentially being our 1 and 2 in a couple of years.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 02:23 PM
You're a big fan of the Canty pickup? I'm reserving judgment on that. I think he's a good player, but i'll be curious to see how he fits our system. he's a physical freak, thats for sure.

the only issue i can see with the Eagles defense is potentially having a dropoff in production along the dline. but its unlikely, because they have a good rotation.



yeah that was a typo, my bad.

I read about that, and I think its a great idea. I think Shawn Andrews would beast it at RT, and I always felt Stacy was more of a RG anyway. That would make your oline that much better.

Figured your brain just got ahead of your fingers or something, I know you're better than to screw something like that up. You feel the same way I (and many Eagles fans) do, it puts the line where everyone is best suited at. (With the exception of Herremans, who I think would also be best suited as a RT, but wouldn't be as good as Shawn) The thing I like most about our line is the depth, we have 3 interior linemen who can start and we won't lose offensive production. I like Tupou a lot, and think he will win the backup RT spot over Winston Justice, and King Dunlap is a freak of nature who could be successful in spot duty if there was an injury.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 02:24 PM
BBD, you and I feel the same way on English too, if you wouldn't have said that, I would have. It seems we agree on a lot of things, just not our favorite team;).

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 02:27 PM
BBD, you and I feel the same way on English too, if you wouldn't have said that, I would have. It seems we agree on a lot of things, just not our favorite team;).

:) good stuff.


can you imagine if Reid would just run the damn ball? how beastly that offense could be?

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 02:30 PM
:) good stuff.


can you imagine if Reid would just run the damn ball? how beastly that offense could be?

With the line and the addition of Weaver, who I think will end up being a key part of the offense (one of the most underrated FA pickups IMO), we'll have to run. Every year we haven't run Reid has said we will re-commit to it. This year he is saying that how much we run is fine. So by following the trend in years past, it looks like we might be running more...:D.

D-Unit
05-05-2009, 02:33 PM
The difference between the Eagles/Giants, and the Cowboys: The Eagles and Giants are dominant in the trenches. The Cowboys are weak in the trenches. That doesn't bode well for those December/Jan games, which has always been their Achilles heal.


This is so true. Not expecting more than a 8-8 season from the Boys.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 02:37 PM
This is so true. Not expecting more than a 8-8 season from the Boys.

you never know. injuries are key for the Cowboys though. they gotta stay healthy. the depth is terrible in key positions.

With the line and the addition of Weaver, who I think will end up being a key part of the offense (one of the most underrated FA pickups IMO), we'll have to run. Every year we haven't run Reid has said we will re-commit to it. This year he is saying that how much we run is fine. So by following the trend in years past, it looks like we might be running more...:D.

i dunno, Andy Reid has too many toys to run the ball this year :p at least i hope so.

Giantsfan1080
05-05-2009, 02:39 PM
I'm very very scared of the screening ability the Eagles have with Westbrook, Maclin, and Jackson. Reid has a lot of speedy toys to play with and if a defense doesn't recognize a screen quick then one of those 3 will be marching into the end zone. There is going to be all types of crazy tricks up Reid's sleeves this year.

yourfavestoner
05-05-2009, 02:40 PM
Derek Cox will be the best corner of this draft class.

Mark it down.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 02:40 PM
I'm very very scared of the screening ability the Eagles have with Westbrook, Maclin, and Jackson. Reid has a lot of speedy toys to play with and if a defense doesn't recognize a screen quick then one of those 3 will be marching into the end zone. There is going to be all types of crazy tricks up Reid's sleeves this year.

which is built PERFECTLY to counter our defense. scary thought.


i'm just hoping that the parity and familiarity of playing each other neutralizes some of that.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Derek Cox will be the best corner of this draft class.

Mark it down.

you agree or disagree with my Jags assessment?

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 02:45 PM
hearing that gets me excited about the future of him and Nicks potentially being our 1 and 2 in a couple of years.

I think that once they come into their own in the NFL they'll compliment each other wonderfully. I've been really giddy about having Barden alongside Smith and now Nicks for a long time and if everything goes well we should have an elite offense until eli retires.

thetedginnshow
05-05-2009, 02:50 PM
The Seahawks have already been raving about Curry. I think he's a perfect fit for that SLB position in their system. I'd be willing to spend a top five pick on a young Julian Peterson, and he seems like he could be relatively in that area.

Giantsfan1080
05-05-2009, 02:51 PM
which is built PERFECTLY to counter our defense. scary thought.


i'm just hoping that the parity and familiarity of playing each other neutralizes some of that.

Exactly. We are going to have 2 or more great games with them this year.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm very very scared of the screening ability the Eagles have with Westbrook, Maclin, and Jackson. Reid has a lot of speedy toys to play with and if a defense doesn't recognize a screen quick then one of those 3 will be marching into the end zone. There is going to be all types of crazy tricks up Reid's sleeves this year.

Don't forget McCoy, he is similar to Westy in his style, he has awesome hands and is dangerous in open space, and a threat to take the ball the distance of the field at any moment.

D-Unit
05-05-2009, 02:57 PM
you never know. injuries are key for the Cowboys though. they gotta stay healthy. the depth is terrible in key positions.

Ironically, the 12 draft picks we had this year were supposed to give us depth. :/

Outside of losing any real key stars, I'm really worried about depth at WR, LT and C. Other than that, we have workable bodies.

But the fact remains... the rest of the NFC took 2 steps forward, the Boys took 2 steps back.

yourfavestoner
05-05-2009, 02:58 PM
you agree or disagree with my Jags assessment?

I love what the Jaguars did. Games are won and lost in the trenches, and the Jags have a great oline on paper now. Monroe was a steal at #8, they picked up Tra Thomas who still has some gas left on the tank, and Britton. Now Im not a big Britton fan, I hate short arms on my tackles, but I can see them moving him inside to LG or play RT. Id prefer Britton at LG, and Thomas at RT with Monroe at LT. Manawai at RG, thats a pretty damn good oline. They need to gel, but they'll be pretty damn good. Invest in MJD early in fantasy football.

Not to mention that Holt is underrated and still has gas left in the tank as well. Watch him have a bounceback year in Jacksonville. So will my boy David Garrard. Now they gotta hope Reggie Nelson and that defense has a bounceback year too. I love Groves and Harvey, and I love Nelson. I think Mathis is overrated, but we'll see. This draft will depend on 1 thing: Was it worth taking Monroe over Raji? Having Raji with Harvey and Groves would have gave them the best young promising dline in the league. Monroe gives them a franchise LT for the next 5 years minimum. But its easier finding a LT than it is a guy like BJ Raji. Raji could have been an Albert Haynesworth like presence on that dline.

Me personally, Id go with Raji. Im a defense nut. But I still love the Monroe pick. It was definitely safer.

I agree with most of it. I think we've got a good shot at 8-8 this season. A wildcard berth is the hope, not the expectation.

Last year was a complete disaster, and there was a multitude of reasons for it. Losing Manuwai and Mo Williams within 20 minutes in the first game of the season was a huge blow to the offense. All of a sudden, we couldn't run the ball. All of our receivers were 7 feet tall, without any ability to get separation. Marcedes Lewis was called to help with protection much more often. What you got was an offense that could only throw slants and curls the entire game. No protection, no weapons on the outside, no ability to run the football...it was a disaster.

As bad as the offense was, I couldn't even stomach watching the Jaguars play defense last year. There were signs at the end of the 07 campaign that the defense was starting to wear down, and last year the bottom just fell out. This was exacerbated by Gregg Williams trying to fit a square peg in a round hole in concern with our scheme and players.

I loved, loved, loved us going big early. Our lack of depth along both lines was exposed last season. Monroe made more sense than Raji to me for a number of reasons. First, I don't really see Thomas being a viable starter for more than a season. Two, the Jags liked Perry more than Raji. They coached Perry at the Senior Bowl, and believe he would have been a perfect fit right next to Henderson (remember, we're going back to our Tampa Two principles). If they had traded down, I believe Perry would have been the guy they had taken.

I think they're expecting Groves and Harvey to take huge strides this offseason. Groves has put on about 15 lbs. Harvey led the team in QB pressures last year. Both need to show that a year in the offseason program will lead to more development.

I also agree that Mathis is overrated. He's definitely not a lockdown guy, but he is an excellent zone defender, who can make tons of plays on the ball in the air. He's a classic trail corner, who can sit underneath and bait the quarterback into making poor decisions.

The biggest enigma on the entire team to me is David Garrard. Did he hit his ceiling in 07? That's the biggest question I have about him. Hopefully with all the new toys we brought in at WR (some speed and separation ability finally) and some new blood on oline he has a good year. I think the Jags go QB early in the draft next year though.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:00 PM
which is built PERFECTLY to counter our defense. scary thought.


i'm just hoping that the parity and familiarity of playing each other neutralizes some of that.

Its not like the Giants defense didn't get better. I think Boley was a good signing, and I really liked Sintim and think he will develop into a great SAM for you guys. Plus you know, you're getting Osi back, which in itself is a big boost for the defense which was a very good one last year...

The matchups in the trenches will determine the winners. You got added guys for the DT rotation, who have been starters and will contribute for you guys. We added OL to combat that. Really, the matchups across the baord are going to be great.

Just a few of the matchups...
Eli vs. the Eagles secondary.
Donovan vs the Giants secondary
Jacobs vs. the Eagles front 7
Westy vs. the Giants front 7
Our receivers vs. your coverage
Your receivers vs. our coverage
Thats not even including the lines, where every single position is a good, balanced matchup. I think the Eagles and Giants are 2 of the 3 best teams in the NFC, and their games are going to be EPIC.

Giantsfan1080
05-05-2009, 03:03 PM
Don't forget McCoy, he is similar to Westy in his style, he has awesome hands and is dangerous in open space, and a threat to take the ball the distance of the field at any moment.

Your right I did forget about him. I'm a big fan of McCoy so yeah he's definitely another tool in the box for Reid. By the way I hate how the Eagles and Giants on paper are excellent and as fans we have to slob knob each other right now. I feel dirty praising the Eagles.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
I find it ironic how the Eagles and Giants respond and counter to eachothers moves. We both improve the lines in FA/trades, and attack skill poistions early.

I keep forgetting Shawn was out last year for us, thats probably because his repalcements came in and played at a very high level. But his presence will help our OL greatly.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:06 PM
This thread has had enough rival love. Andy Reid and Donovan will make sure that the eagles don't win the SB next year, GO GMEN!!!!!

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:08 PM
I agree with most of it. I think we've got a good shot at 8-8 this season. A wildcard berth is the hope, not the expectation.

Last year was a complete disaster, and there was a multitude of reasons for it. Losing Manuwai and Mo Williams within 20 minutes in the first game of the season was a huge blow to the offense. All of a sudden, we couldn't run the ball. All of our receivers were 7 feet tall, without any ability to get separation. Marcedes Lewis was called to help with protection much more often. What you got was an offense that could only throw slants and curls the entire game. No protection, no weapons on the outside, no ability to run the football...it was a disaster.

As bad as the offense was, I couldn't even stomach watching the Jaguars play defense last year. There were signs at the end of the 07 campaign that the defense was starting to wear down, and last year the bottom just fell out. This was exacerbated by Gregg Williams trying to fit a square peg in a round hole in concern with our scheme and players.

I loved, loved, loved us going big early. Our lack of depth along both lines was exposed last season. Monroe made more sense than Raji to me for a number of reasons. First, I don't really see Thomas being a viable starter for more than a season. Two, the Jags liked Perry more than Raji. They coached Perry at the Senior Bowl, and believe he would have been a perfect fit right next to Henderson (remember, we're going back to our Tampa Two principles). If they had traded down, I believe Perry would have been the guy they had taken.

I think they're expecting Groves and Harvey to take huge strides this offseason. Groves has put on about 15 lbs. Harvey led the team in QB pressures last year. Both need to show that a year in the offseason program will lead to more development.

I also agree that Mathis is overrated. He's definitely not a lockdown guy, but he is an excellent zone defender, who can make tons of plays on the ball in the air. He's a classic trail corner, who can sit underneath and bait the quarterback into making poor decisions.

The biggest enigma on the entire team to me is David Garrard. Did he hit his ceiling in 07? That's the biggest question I have about him. Hopefully with all the new toys we brought in at WR (some speed and separation ability finally) and some new blood on oline he has a good year. I think the Jags go QB early in the draft next year though.

any hope for my boy Reggie Nelson? what did they do differently with him last year to make him struggle so much?

i had him rated higher than Laron Landry coming out...

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:08 PM
Its not like the Giants defense didn't get better. I think Boley was a good signing, and I really liked Sintim and think he will develop into a great SAM for you guys. Plus you know, you're getting Osi back, which in itself is a big boost for the defense which was a very good one last year...

The matchups in the trenches will determine the winners. You got added guys for the DT rotation, who have been starters and will contribute for you guys. We added OL to combat that. Really, the matchups across the baord are going to be great.

Just a few of the matchups...
Eli vs. the Eagles secondary.
Donovan vs the Giants secondary
Jacobs vs. the Eagles front 7
Westy vs. the Giants front 7
Our receivers vs. your coverage
Your receivers vs. our coverage
Thats not even including the lines, where every single position is a good, balanced matchup. I think the Eagles and Giants are 2 of the 3 best teams in the NFC, and their games are going to be EPIC.

just talking about our upcoming games gets me pumped up. its gonna be so good.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:09 PM
any hope for my boy Reggie Nelson? what did they do differently with him last year to make him struggle so much?

i had him rated higher than Laron Landry coming out...

I thought I was the only fool who thought that.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:11 PM
I thought I was the only fool who thought that.

na we both did. i remember us talking about it. it was one of your 5 billion aliases at the time though.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:14 PM
na we both did. i remember us talking about it. it was one of your 5 billion aliases at the time though.

I've only had like ten aliases thank you very much. But come to think of it you might just be right, I've done a good job killing braincells since then so my memory comes and goes ;) I'm still hoping that things can settle themselves for The Eraser, since he was so smooth in coverage with a tough ass little guy syndrome and good eyes for the ball for the gators.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Your right I did forget about him. I'm a big fan of McCoy so yeah he's definitely another tool in the box for Reid. By the way I hate how the Eagles and Giants on paper are excellent and as fans we have to slob knob each other right now. I feel dirty praising the Eagles.

I know, me too. But I truly can't say too many negatives about the Giants off-season, not without being oblivious anyway. But eventually, it'll get to the point where we find the slightest weakpoint in the opponents team, then we'll start beating it to death and using it to prove why our team is better, and the other way around. I think Burress leaving hurts a little bit, but I think Nicks and Barden will help fill that void. They may not fill it this season (all the way) but combined they will have a solid impact as long as they put the work in, which they should. But that is the only real negative I can say about the Giants off-season. The truth is there will be two very good game between the eagles and Giants this year, if not, 3.

I truly beleive us two are the cream of the crop of the NFC East. I like what Atlanta has done, but I think their defnese is a step below ours, if not more, and that is where the difference is. The Cards have that deadly offense that only got better when they drafted Wells, but once again, defense is a question mark. I don't think they can play like they did in the playoffs, at least not over the whole season. Those are the other top teams in the NFC, IMO, and then there is a dropoff until youget to the Saints, Vikings, Bears, Packers, Redskins, Cowboys, Seahawks, Panthers. I think the NFc will be very competitive this year, and even a few of the teams I didn't mention have a shot at the playoffs if things go right for them.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:15 PM
This thread has had enough rival love. Andy Reid and Donovan will make sure that the eagles don't win the SB next year, GO GMEN!!!!!

Kevin Killdrive and Fatass Pierce will be the Giants demise, muhahaha!

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:16 PM
I've only had like ten aliases thank you very much. But come to think of it you might just be right, I've done a good job killing braincells since then so my memory comes and goes ;) I'm still hoping that things can settle themselves for The Eraser, since he was so smooth in coverage with a tough ass little guy syndrome and good eyes for the ball for the gators.

i thought he was going to be the next Ed Reed.


he was more of a pure FS than Landry was. i still think he can do it. that defense should be better this year.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm actually a big fan of that cardinals D. I'm not as hot on them now that Pendergast is gone but I think with an offense more committed to running the ball we'll see them take the next step and become a legit top ten D, granted I think the giants and iggles are top 5 Ds but I like how the cards have put that group together. Pity Darryl Blackstock never worked out for them, I was way too high on him coming out.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Kevin Killdrive and Fatass Pierce will be the Giants demise, muhahaha!

damn....

...you're probably right too :(

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:19 PM
i thought he was going to be the next Ed Reed.


he was more of a pure FS than Landry was. i still think he can do it. that defense should be better this year.

I remember...
2/3 of the world is covered by water, the rest is covered by Reggie Nelson...

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:22 PM
I'm actually a big fan of that cardinals D. I'm not as hot on them now that Pendergast is gone but I think with an offense more committed to running the ball we'll see them take the next step and become a legit top ten D, granted I think the giants and iggles are top 5 Ds but I like how the cards have put that group together. Pity Darryl Blackstock never worked out for them, I was way too high on him coming out.

I really like their secondary, and the line is solid. Good, but not like what the Giants or Eagles have, They have Karlos Dansby, but after that, Hayes and Okeafor aren't world beaters. It is a solid D, but it just isn't on the same level on the Eagles or Giants. I too am a little concerned about them losing Pendergast.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:23 PM
Kevin Killdrive and Fatass Pierce will be the Giants demise, muhahaha!

Pierce will pull a hammy while trying to get out of his car and be replaced by Goff who'll proceed to bite of donovan's leg. As for Killdrive have no worries, I've been working out a plan that would "get rid of him."

i thought he was going to be the next Ed Reed.

he was more of a pure FS than Landry was. i still think he can do it. that defense should be better this year.

I was thinking a more of a Dawkins/Bob Sanders type for Nelson because for such a little guy he was one tough SOB. Then again I also thought Landry would be a disappointment because I didn't feel like he played up to his measureables at LSU at all.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:23 PM
damn....

...you're probably right too :(

If they do fall off, it would be one (or both) of them who is at fault, but otherwisethere isn't a major weakness on the Giants.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:24 PM
I really like their secondary, and the line is solid. Good, but not like what the Giants or Eagles have, They have Karlos Dansby, but after that, Hayes and Okeafor aren't world beaters. It is a solid D, but it just isn't on the same level on the Eagles or Giants. I too am a little concerned about them losing Pendergast.

Yeah, for them to become elite I'd like to see more DL depth and another rush backer, but Cody brown has a lot of tools if he learns quickly and I am a big fan of Dockett and Watson.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Pierce will pull a hammy while trying to get out of his car and be replaced by Goff who'll proceed to bite of donovan's leg. As for Killdrive have no worries, I've been working out a plan that would "get rid of him."

Are you coordinating these efforts? Will Pierce's car be moving at a high rate of speed while this occurs?

I must save Killdrive. I'm gonna send a letter to him. It'll read.

Dear Mr. Killdrive,

My name is Eaglesalltheway, and Eagle fan who is not writing to heckle you. I am writing to ensure your safety. I have gotten word that there are threats to your life. Enclosed in the package along with this envelope is a bullet proof vest and shortly after you receive this message, you will be provided with three secret service members, at my expense. Also, please stay away from dangerous situations. Don't worry about paying me back, just make sure you stay the Giants offensive Coordinator for as long as you can.

Thanks, and stay safe, ealgesalltheway

I was thinking a more of a Dawkins/Bob Sanders type for Nelson because for such a little guy he was one tough SOB. Then again I also thought Landry would be a disappointment because I didn't feel like he played up to his measureables at LSU at all.

I think Reggie Nelson was closer to Reed, though he could lay the wood on occasion.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:31 PM
Yeah, for them to become elite I'd like to see more DL depth and another rush backer, but Cody brown has a lot of tools if he learns quickly and I am a big fan of Dockett and Watson.

If Dockett gets his trade request granted, (he won't) they're front 7 takes a big hit. If they wouldn't have franchised Dansby, I wouldn't worry about that LB corp at all.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 03:38 PM
Pierce will pull a hammy while trying to get out of his car and be replaced by Goff who'll proceed to bite of donovan's leg. As for Killdrive have no worries, I've been working out a plan that would "get rid of him."



I was thinking a more of a Dawkins/Bob Sanders type for Nelson because for such a little guy he was one tough SOB. Then again I also thought Landry would be a disappointment because I didn't feel like he played up to his measureables at LSU at all.

Nooo Laron was a great player at LSU, it wasn't his fault he also had out of this world measurables to boot.

Killdrive. Heh. Not exactly the first time I've heard it, freaking bag of slop.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 03:50 PM
You guys have no idea how upset I was when I heard he was in consideration for Syracuse's head coaching job. I was watching ESPN with my buddies, and read it in my head and literally yelled NO at the top of my lungs. My buds asked me WTF and I told them, but they just didn't get it. They were like, "Isn't that a good thing?" And then I schooled them on the failure that is Kevin Killdrive...

Malaka
05-05-2009, 03:53 PM
You guys have no idea how upset I was when I heard he was in consideration for Syracuse's head coaching job. I was watching ESPN with my buddies, and read it in my head and literally yelled NO at the top of my lungs. My buds asked me WTF and I told them, but they just didn't get it. They were like, "Isn't that a good thing?" And then I schooled them on the failure that is Kevin Killdrive...

I hate Kevin Kildrive as much as the next guy, but he has to be doing something right to still be our offensive cooridinator... if he really was so damn horrible don't you think the greatness that is Jerry Reese would have snuffed him out already?

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Are you coordinating these efforts? Will Pierce's car be moving at a high rate of speed while this occurs?

I must save Killdrive. I'm gonna send a letter to him. It'll read.

Dear Mr. Killdrive,

My name is Eaglesalltheway, and Eagle fan who is not writing to heckle you. I am writing to ensure your safety. I have gotten word that there are threats to your life. Enclosed in the package along with this envelope is a bullet proof vest and shortly after you receive this message, you will be provided with three secret service members, at my expense. Also, please stay away from dangerous situations. Don't worry about paying me back, just make sure you stay the Giants offensive Coordinator for as long as you can.

Thanks, and stay safe, ealgesalltheway



I think Reggie Nelson was closer to Reed, though he could lay the wood on occasion.

excellent. You're playing right inot my plan, I don't need to kill him, just to increase his paranoia until he losses his mind and coughlin fires him. He's already paranoid because he knows someone is going to come after him for still being in the NFL.

As for Nelson he certainly was a playmaker deep like Reed, but he was so much more physical and willing to dish out hits than Reed that I thought he could be used to make things happen closer to the line, like Dawk.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 03:56 PM
I hate Kevin Kildrive as much as the next guy, but he has to be doing something right to still be our offensive cooridinator... if he really was so damn horrible don't you think the greatness that is Jerry Reese would have snuffed him out already?

Keeping Killdrive is part of Reese's deal with the devil to become the grandmaster of the NFL draft. That's why Reese himself can't do anything that would lead to Killdrive's firing, but if I, a simple fan where to be responsible I think the gmen would be able to weasel their way out of the devil's contract without Reese losing his demi-god powers.

bigbluedefense
05-05-2009, 03:58 PM
I hate Kevin Kildrive as much as the next guy, but he has to be doing something right to still be our offensive cooridinator... if he really was so damn horrible don't you think the greatness that is Jerry Reese would have snuffed him out already?

unfortunately no...:(

killdrive is like a cockroach, just finding ways to survive.


i wanna invite Buddy Ryan to one of our games so he could punch him in the face again.

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm very very scared of the screening ability the Eagles have with Westbrook, Maclin, and Jackson. Reid has a lot of speedy toys to play with and if a defense doesn't recognize a screen quick then one of those 3 will be marching into the end zone. There is going to be all types of crazy tricks up Reid's sleeves this year.
I remember when our Offense used to be like that, and look how that turned out :( "The Greatest Show on Turf".

I'll go out on a limb and say that I fully expect Jackson, McNabb and Westbrook in the Pro Bowl.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 04:02 PM
I remember when our Offense used to be like that, and look how that turned out :( "The Greatest Show on Turf".

I'll go out on a limb and say that I fully expect Jackson, McNabb and Westbrook in the Pro Bowl.

That really is out on a limb. 2 out of 3 isn't too unreasonable, but when you think about all the WRs DeSean has to deal with, as well as the RBs for Westy, and that makes it really tough. I certainly wouldn't complain about it though.

And don't tease me with that greatest show on turf, I've already toyed with that thought in my head, and it is within the realm of possibilities, though it'd be a dream come true for me...

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 04:05 PM
That really is out on a limb. 2 out of 3 isn't too unreasonable, but when you think about all the WRs DeSean has to deal with, as well as the RBs for Westy, and that makes it really tough. I certainly wouldn't complain about it though.
Yeah, but how many other Wide-outs have a team that has 4 different weapons that the Defense needs to worry about, leaving the possibility for a big play every snap from any given player..?

And don't tease me with that greatest show on turf, I've already toyed with that thought in my head, and it is within the realm of possibilities, though it'd be a dream come true for me...

You never know, I'm not calling it. And I don't think you'll quite put up those numbers this year, but in 2010, it's all possible.

BlindSite
05-05-2009, 06:17 PM
Yeah, but how many other Wide-outs have a team that has 4 different weapons that the Defense needs to worry about, leaving the possibility for a big play every snap from any given player..?
.

It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with thinking Jackson will succeed it's thinking that he'll be dominant enough to get past:

Fitzgerald
Megatron
Steve Smith
Roddy White
Anquan Boldin
Roy Williams

The NFC has a log jam of good receivers vying for probowl spots.

I love Jackson and I think he'll be a great receiver but he'll have to be damn productive to make a probowl this year.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 07:01 PM
Yeah, but how many other Wide-outs have a team that has 4 different weapons that the Defense needs to worry about, leaving the possibility for a big play every snap from any given player..?



You never know, I'm not calling it. And I don't think you'll quite put up those numbers this year, but in 2010, it's all possible.

Not many, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Arizona. I'm just trying not to get my hopes up too much, at least at this stage of the game.

eaglesalltheway
05-05-2009, 07:03 PM
It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with thinking Jackson will succeed it's thinking that he'll be dominant enough to get past:

Fitzgerald
Megatron
Steve Smith
Roddy White
Anquan Boldin
Roy Williams

The NFC has a log jam of good receivers vying for probowl spots.

I love Jackson and I think he'll be a great receiver but he'll have to be damn productive to make a probowl this year.

That is exactly why I think DeSean will have a hard time. Now I don't think Roy Williams is the calibur of those guys, and DeSean will probably out-produce him, but because of the whole Dallas thing, he will get more Pro-Bowl votes than he should.

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 08:33 PM
It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with thinking Jackson will succeed it's thinking that he'll be dominant enough to get past:

Fitzgerald
Megatron
Steve Smith
Roddy White
Anquan Boldin
Roy Williams

The NFC has a log jam of good receivers vying for probowl spots.

I love Jackson and I think he'll be a great receiver but he'll have to be damn productive to make a probowl this year.

I agree. But I don't see Roy Williams putting up great numbers in Dallas, I just don't think Dallas is for him. He's never been real good under pressure, and after last season he's got a lot of pressure on him, especially to try and fill in for Terrell Owens.

Roddy White had a very good season last, but they defenses will be more keyed on him so we'll see what happens. And Boldin, who knows, he's a very good receiver, but I see Arizona running more next season, and one of there receivers is going to have to have a drop off, and I sure as heck don't think it's Fitzgerald. Plus, with Boldins attitude, who knows where he'll end up, he could be in the AFC, or go to another NFC team and have to relearn another Offense.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 08:35 PM
I remember when our Offense used to be like that, and look how that turned out :( "The Greatest Show on Turf".

I'll go out on a limb and say that I fully expect Jackson, McNabb and Westbrook in the Pro Bowl.

If anyone can avoid running the ball like Mike Martz did, it's Andy Reid.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 08:37 PM
I agree. But I don't see Roy Williams putting up great numbers in Dallas, I just don't think Dallas is for him. He's never been real good under pressure, and after last season he's got a lot of pressure on him, especially to try and fill in for Terrell Owens.

Roddy White had a very good season last, but they defenses will be more keyed on him so we'll see what happens. And Boldin, who knows, he's a very good receiver, but I see Arizona running more next season, and one of there receivers is going to have to have a drop off, and I sure as heck don't think it's Fitzgerald. Plus, with Boldins attitude, who knows where he'll end up, he could be in the AFC, or go to another NFC team and have to relearn another Offense.

Hm while I get where you're coming from with Roy, I think he's still going to put up numbers because Garrett and Romo are still around; for better or worse they're going to be slinging it and someone has to get the catches. It's not the most natural fit in the world but I don't think Roy is going to disappear on us.

Roddy is amazing and despite the last couple seasons, (great ones obviously) put me on the record that he is nowhere near his ceiling, the guy is an undercover freak.

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 08:45 PM
Hm while I get where you're coming from with Roy, I think he's still going to put up numbers because Garrett and Romo are still around; for better or worse they're going to be slinging it and someone has to get the catches. It's not the most natural fit in the world but I don't think Roy is going to disappear on us.

You have Marion Barber, who's a damn good back whose going to need to get the ball. And you still have Witten, and I hear good things about Austin.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance to make the Pro Bowl, I just don't see him making it this season.

Roddy is amazing and despite the last couple seasons, (great ones obviously) put me on the record that he is nowhere near his ceiling, the guy is an undercover freak.
We'll see, I see unlimited potential, if he stays healthy and doesn't have a Problem with double coverage, he can obviously make it.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 09:04 PM
You have Marion Barber, who's a damn good back whose going to need to get the ball. And you still have Witten, and I hear good things about Austin.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance to make the Pro Bowl, I just don't see him making it this season.


We'll see, I see unlimited potential, if he stays healthy and doesn't have a Problem with double coverage, he can obviously make it.

Pro Bowl might be asking a bit much in a crowded NFC WR group but i don't think Witten or Barber are going to steal enough touches to label Roy's season disappointing. He's basically their only proven downfield threat.

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 09:27 PM
Pro Bowl might be asking a bit much in a crowded NFC WR group but i don't think Witten or Barber are going to steal enough touches to label Roy's season disappointing. He's basically their only proven downfield threat.

I don't think Roys season is going to be disappointing, I just don't believe he's going to have a Pro Bowl season, well, I guess if not having a Pro Bowl season is disappointing for him, then I think he'll be disappointing next season.

They need to get Barber more touches this year, and I think Austin will suprise a lot of people.

21ST
05-05-2009, 09:47 PM
I don't think Roys season is going to be disappointing, I just don't believe he's going to have a Pro Bowl season, well, I guess if not having a Pro Bowl season is disappointing for him, then I think he'll be disappointing next season.

They need to get Barber more touches this year, and I think Austin will suprise a lot of people.

Dorrell Scott is going to be a beast i grew up with him

21ST
05-05-2009, 09:50 PM
I wish i was that optimistic about the skins but we need a QB and for some reason we drated a DE at 13 to play SLB.....Wouldnt it make more sense to have just drafted a LB in the first place? Another year and the skins dont draft a DE lol

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Dorrell Scott is going to be a beast i grew up with him
Why do you think this? (I appreciate the input!)

21ST
05-05-2009, 10:01 PM
Why do you think this? (I appreciate the input!)

because he is probly the hardest workin person i ever met and he could have went the way that most of us went but he went to school and actually made it and didnt piss away his scholarship

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 10:03 PM
because he is probly the hardest workin person i ever met and he could have went the way that most of us went but he went to school and actually made it and didnt piss away his scholarship
So... do you think Spagnuolo can work his magic? And I thought I read that he doesn't enjoy football as much as some, and needs pumped up?

Sniper
05-05-2009, 10:05 PM
If anyone can avoid running the ball like Mike Martz did, it's Andy Reid.

So? Brian Westbrook is probably the league's best pass-catching running back. I expect the Eagles to run a lot more this year, too. The OL is definitely suited for road-grading.

diabsoule
05-05-2009, 10:21 PM
So? Brian Westbrook is probably the league's best pass-catching running back. I expect the Eagles to run a lot more this year, too. The OL is definitely suited for road-grading.

I really like the Eagles OL and offense in general. On paper it is pretty beastly. You add in Shady McCoy to beast w/ BWest along with a couple of receivers that can stretch the field and the Iggles O is pretty scary. On paper.

Only things that can hold them back is how the OL gels together, how Maclin fits into the offense, and Andy Reid's play calling and clock management.

bearsfan_51
05-06-2009, 12:42 AM
Would like to hear your thoughts on GB. To me, their draft made the offseason.

Umm..yeah, cause they didn't do anything else.

LonghornsLegend
05-06-2009, 12:59 AM
So? Brian Westbrook is probably the league's best pass-catching running back. I expect the Eagles to run a lot more this year, too. The OL is definitely suited for road-grading.

I have a question, if Reid gets fired is their whole offensive system scrapped? Or is someone stepping up from within to keep things in place? McCoy in that system is awesome, somewhere else I have my questions about him, same with Kolb, he's been in that system for awhile and should be an above average starter if he's given a chance.


It would suck of Reid gets fired at some point, and the whole offensive scheme gets scrapped, you guys have some really good personnel to continue to run things the same way for many years to come.

Shiver
05-06-2009, 04:54 AM
I agree. But I don't see Roy Williams putting up great numbers in Dallas, I just don't think Dallas is for him. He's never been real good under pressure, and after last season he's got a lot of pressure on him, especially to try and fill in for Terrell Owens.

m Roddy White had a very good season last, but they defenses will be more keyed on him so we'll see what happens. And Boldin, who knows, he's a very good receiver, but I see Arizona running more next season, and one of there receivers is going to have to have a drop off, and I sure as heck don't think it's Fitzgerald. Plus, with Boldins attitude, who knows where he'll end up, he could be in the AFC, or go to another NFC team and have to relearn another Offense.


How is that? The Falcons didn't have Tony Gonzalez last year. That will clear things up for Roddy White tremendously.

Sniper
05-06-2009, 07:16 AM
I have a question, if Reid gets fired is their whole offensive system scrapped? Or is someone stepping up from within to keep things in place? McCoy in that system is awesome, somewhere else I have my questions about him, same with Kolb, he's been in that system for awhile and should be an above average starter if he's given a chance.

They would probably hire someone from within or find someone with a passing mentality. Let's just say Brad Childress won't be in the running for the job. Kind of hard to get fired after a Super Bowl win, though! ;)

It would suck of Reid gets fired at some point, and the whole offensive scheme gets scrapped, you guys have some really good personnel to continue to run things the same way for many years to come.

Eh, like I said, they'd find someone who'd be able to use those guys.

21ST
05-06-2009, 09:07 AM
So... do you think Spagnuolo can work his magic? And I thought I read that he doesn't enjoy football as much as some, and needs pumped up?

Well when he got the call he was going to the rams he was pumped the **** up and i know he is happy to just get out of SC. I think Sqagnuolo will be able to get the most out of him

HawkeyeFan
05-06-2009, 12:05 PM
How is that? The Falcons didn't have Tony Gonzalez last year. That will clear things up for Roddy White tremendously.
Yeah, Tony Gonzalez will help out a lot, Tony G will get more Linebacker help next year than safety help like Roddy White will. But now that you have Tony G, he'll need the ball too. So that will take away from Roddy. And remember what I said, we'll see what happens when defenses will key onto him more, try different looks to confuse him.

I expect Roddy to have another great year, but with the ball now needing to go to Tony G as well as Roddy, and don't forget about Turners great year, I don't know if that offense is built quite like the Colts or Saints to where they will pass it 50 times every game, I also don't think Matt Ryan is that experienced yet.

eaglesalltheway
05-06-2009, 02:55 PM
You have Marion Barber, who's a damn good back whose going to need to get the ball. And you still have Witten, and I hear good things about Austin.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance to make the Pro Bowl, I just don't see him making it this season.


We'll see, I see unlimited potential, if he stays healthy and doesn't have a Problem with double coverage, he can obviously make it.

I could see Roy making the ProBowl because of all the cowboy bandwagon fans that will vote him in, even though its only 1/3 of the process, it will be a lot, and if he has a solid season, it may be enough to get him in there.

eaglesalltheway
05-06-2009, 02:59 PM
I wish i was that optimistic about the skins but we need a QB and for some reason we drated a DE at 13 to play SLB.....Wouldnt it make more sense to have just drafted a LB in the first place? Another year and the skins dont draft a DE lol

They aren't planning on putting him at RE? I thought Orakpo was a great pick, but that was while I thought he would be a RE, I don't like him nearly as amuch as a LB, you minimize what he is great at and make his weaknesses more pronounced, leaving him more vulnerable. I hope to god they put him at RE, for Orkapo's sake anyway...

eaglesalltheway
05-06-2009, 03:01 PM
I have a question, if Reid gets fired is their whole offensive system scrapped? Or is someone stepping up from within to keep things in place? McCoy in that system is awesome, somewhere else I have my questions about him, same with Kolb, he's been in that system for awhile and should be an above average starter if he's given a chance.


It would suck of Reid gets fired at some point, and the whole offensive scheme gets scrapped, you guys have some really good personnel to continue to run things the same way for many years to come.

I really doubt Reid gets fired any time soon. Banner is in love with him and it would take a horrible, horrible season for him to get fired. If he would though I'm sure the team would find someoen who can continue the WCO, whether it be an outside guy or bringing someone up the ladder within the organization.

Kolb has shown nothing that shows he can even be a starter, let alone above average. I had high hopes for him, but right now he is fizzling, and his future doesn't look bring to me, and many other Eagle fans as well.

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 03:22 PM
Yeah, Tony Gonzalez will help out a lot, Tony G will get more Linebacker help next year than safety help like Roddy White will. But now that you have Tony G, he'll need the ball too. So that will take away from Roddy. And remember what I said, we'll see what happens when defenses will key onto him more, try different looks to confuse him.

I expect Roddy to have another great year, but with the ball now needing to go to Tony G as well as Roddy, and don't forget about Turners great year, I don't know if that offense is built quite like the Colts or Saints to where they will pass it 50 times every game, I also don't think Matt Ryan is that experienced yet.

Why would the coaches or Matt Ryan take away from Roddy to get the ball to Tony? You take away from everyone else, not your star player. And if you've ever watched a chief game, you know Tony requires safety help just as much as a WR.

HawkeyeFan
05-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Why would the coaches or Matt Ryan take away from Roddy to get the ball to Tony? You take away from everyone else, not your star player. And if you've ever watched a chief game, you know Tony requires safety help just as much as a WR.
Has Tony ever had a fellow receiver out there like Roddy White?

So your the coach of a team. What are you going to do, stick a safety out with a Corner back to double team a speedy Roddy White, or are you going to stick a slower Linebacker and Corner back on a speedy Roddy White?

21ST
05-06-2009, 08:48 PM
They aren't planning on putting him at RE? I thought Orakpo was a great pick, but that was while I thought he would be a RE, I don't like him nearly as amuch as a LB, you minimize what he is great at and make his weaknesses more pronounced, leaving him more vulnerable. I hope to god they put him at RE, for Orkapo's sake anyway...

No he is not going to be our RE because we already have one we needed a left end, but anyway he is going to be a LB on 1st and 2nd down and DE on 3rd. He is a strong side backer for us

neko4
05-06-2009, 09:12 PM
Also, Matthews legs are very thin. He needs to bulk up to be an effective 3-4 Rushbacker. Can he bulk up anymore?

I dunno. I always viewed him as an attacking 4-3 linebacker because of his thin lower body.

.


That scares me a little bit. Lavaar arrington had the same problem i recall, with small legs.

CC.SD
05-06-2009, 09:36 PM
Has Tony ever had a fellow receiver out there like Roddy White?

So your the coach of a team. What are you going to do, stick a safety out with a Corner back to double team a speedy Roddy White, or are you going to stick a slower Linebacker and Corner back on a speedy Roddy White?

and this is why the rest of the NFC south is ******, the Falcons have come together way too fast, like a jigsaw in FF. Don't forget you have to figure out how to stop the Michael Turner assault. Very dangerous team, me likey.

d34ng3l021
05-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Has Tony ever had a fellow receiver out there like Roddy White?

So your the coach of a team. What are you going to do, stick a safety out with a Corner back to double team a speedy Roddy White, or are you going to stick a slower Linebacker and Corner back on a speedy Roddy White?

I don't know, but either way, I am ******.

The Falcons offense is so scary. Who do you leave 1 on 1? Roddy White? No, he does very well against single coverage. Tony Gonzalez? No, there's no 1 linebacker or safety that can cover him. Even the 6'4" Michael Jenkins and quick Harry Douglas can pose problems for the #2 and #3 cornerbacks. Not to mention, you have to deal with Michael Turner and a great offensive line without the chance to put 8 men in the box because of the threats that Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez pose on the outside and over the middle.

:)

Niners_2152
05-07-2009, 12:02 PM
Actually, I think Denver signed 3 RBs this offseason... Lamont Jordan, Arrington and Buckhalter. I guess they plan on outscoring everyone again this year. I would have used both #1s on D since they didn't take a QB. Man, Orton could really hold that offense back because it has a boat load of weapons.

Gay Ork Wang
05-07-2009, 12:26 PM
Orton never holds anything back, he just never improves anything a lot either

Mr. Hero
05-07-2009, 05:49 PM
Orton never holds anything back, he just never improves anything a lot either

You see you can word things well if you just try really hard.:p

eaglesalltheway
05-07-2009, 06:54 PM
No he is not going to be our RE because we already have one we needed a left end, but anyway he is going to be a LB on 1st and 2nd down and DE on 3rd. He is a strong side backer for us

Are the long-term plans to make him the future RE? That would be the much better oute for him, and putting him at SLB really isn't a good fit for him for the Skins.

diabsoule
05-07-2009, 07:04 PM
Denver needs to sign Rex Grossman so he can unleash dragons to Brandon Marshall. If McDaniel's really wants to prove himself then that's what he'll do.

CC.SD
05-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Actually, I think Denver signed 3 RBs this offseason... Lamont Jordan, Arrington and Buckhalter. I guess they plan on outscoring everyone again this year. I would have used both #1s on D since they didn't take a QB. Man, Orton could really hold that offense back because it has a boat load of weapons.

I agree, they should trade him and a pair of #1s for Cutler.

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 12:39 PM
I agree, they should trade him and a pair of #1s for Cutler.

zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?

diabsoule
05-10-2009, 12:44 PM
zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?

I'm not expecting McDaniel's to make it out of Denver alive. A whole group of fans chanting "Orange Crush" are going to march up to his house bearing torches, drag him out and lynch him for turning the Broncos into the Raiders.

Gay Ork Wang
05-10-2009, 12:51 PM
zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?
i seriously dream of this scenario

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm not expecting McDaniel's to make it out of Denver alive. A whole group of fans chanting "Orange Crush" are going to march up to his house bearing torches, drag him out and lynch him for turning the Broncos into the Raiders.

the man has a decently talented team too. i actually like the players he drafted, just not how he went about getting them. (hated his moves in FA though).

if he doesn't start out hot, if he doesn't have a good first year, his coaching career is going to be in serious trouble. he has to hope his team starts out hot, so he can build confidence.

if it starts ugly, it will probably end ugly.


And heres another thing I don't get. Why is he considered a great OC? Why? That scheme he ran was Weis's scheme. He was just promoted from within to keep it chugging. All those great Xs and Os are principles that Weis created.

Then they get incredible talent, and the offense skyrockets, but thats more a testament to the talent than anything else.

Plus, he pretty much screwed the Pats in the SB against the Giants bc it was his lack of adjustments, and arrogance in trying to attack us deep every play that cost them the SB. If they simply attacked us underneath the whole game, they'd have a perfect season.

HE cost them the SB. So how is this guy such a genius?

Gay Ork Wang
05-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Because Tomz Bradyz And Mattzzzz Cazzzel

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Because Tomz Bradyz And Mattzzzz Cazzzel

You mean the SB champion that Charlie Weis groomed and his backup who played with the greatest offense in NFL history in his first season starting, who was drafted while Weis was still on the team?

Gay Ork Wang
05-10-2009, 12:58 PM
You mean the SB champion that Charlie Weis groomed and his backup who played with the greatest offense in NFL history in his first season starting, who was drafted while Weis was still on the team?
BUT TOM BRADY AND MATT CASSEL! HE WAS THE QB COACH; HE HAS TO BE AWESOME

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 01:02 PM
BUT TOM BRADY AND MATT CASSEL! HE WAS THE QB COACH; HE HAS TO BE AWESOME

;)


You should be his #1 fan with all the love he's shown Chicago lol.

Gay Ork Wang
05-10-2009, 01:06 PM
well i am! Josh McDaniels does more good for Chicago then Lovie

49ersfan_87
05-10-2009, 01:18 PM
BBD, just curious, i wonder what your views on the 49er offseason are?

CC.SD
05-10-2009, 01:53 PM
zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?

Don't forget forfeiting a (very) high 1st rounder if this situation plays out.

I think regardless of how well he does as a coach, McD will always carry the stigma of forcing Cutler out. If a Josh McDaniels came back from the future to warn his past self, the first words out of his mouth would be "Just put down the phone son, a franchise QB is the reason you took this job."

Or maybe "Call some underneath patterns in the Super Bowl."

Either way the guy has already stacked up some pretty interesting regrets.

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 01:53 PM
BBD, just curious, i wonder what your views on the 49er offseason are?

i'll get to it. i obviously like crabtree, but i need to go over the rest of it and get a better idea of where the team itself stands before i evaluate it.

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 01:58 PM
Don't forget forfeiting a (very) high 1st rounder if this situation plays out.

I think regardless of how well he does as a coach, McD will always carry the stigma of forcing Cutler out. If a Josh McDaniels came back from the future to warn his past self, the first words out of his mouth would be "Just put down the phone son, a franchise QB is the reason you took this job."

Or maybe "Call some underneath patterns in the Super Bowl."

Either way the guy has already stacked up some pretty interesting regrets.

Yeah. I'm an Alphonso Smith fan, I even discussed him as a potential late 2nd/3rd round guy for the Giants in our team board, but giving up a 1st next year for him was sheer stupidity.

I like Moreno as a player, but at 12? Considering the fact that they had so many more pressing issues, and a guy like McCoy or Andre Brown could be had later, plus the fact that they already had a good rush attack with Hillis and a ZBS, just makes it even worse.

Oh, and Mike Nolan is the DC. I hope Broncos fans enjoy seeing Cover 3 called every 1st and 2nd down, and Cover 2 called on 3rd.


I think McDaniels will not satisfy his fan base unless he wins a SB. bottomline. Because with Cutler, Broncos fans had faith that perhaps one day, they could win a SB with him as their franchise qb.

Now unless McDaniels delivers on that without Cutler, he'll be viewed as a failure.

CC.SD
05-10-2009, 02:07 PM
Yeah. I'm an Alphonso Smith fan, I even discussed him as a potential late 2nd/3rd round guy for the Giants in our team board, but giving up a 1st next year for him was sheer stupidity.

I like Moreno as a player, but at 12? Considering the fact that they had so many more pressing issues, and a guy like McCoy or Andre Brown could be had later, plus the fact that they already had a good rush attack with Hillis and a ZBS, just makes it even worse.

Oh, and Mike Nolan is the DC. I hope Broncos fans enjoy seeing Cover 3 called every 1st and 2nd down, and Cover 2 called on 3rd.


I think McDaniels will not satisfy his fan base unless he wins a SB. bottomline. Because with Cutler, Broncos fans had faith that perhaps one day, they could win a SB with him as their franchise qb.

Now unless McDaniels delivers on that without Cutler, he'll be viewed as a failure.

All that and the Ayers pick still has to be viewed as a gamble as well: A one year star undergoing a position change, with poor talent all over the rest of that front 7? It won't be easy.

Just from chatting up various Denver fans both online and in person, I would go so far as to say that Cutler had already entered that zone most recently occupied by Peyton circa 2005: Absolute confidence that, although he hadn't yet, would one day bring home the championship bacon.

Stripping your fanbase of that feeling has got to be crippling, especially when it could have been avoided so easily. I agree that without a Super Bowl, McDaniels will be eternally screwed, and if they don't perform well immediately (over the next two years), he's not going to get a fair chance to get it done.

Xenos
05-10-2009, 03:29 PM
zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?
I wonder if Ron is going to keep the same conservative scheme with Cutler in there. Or will he just let him run wild like he did in Denver?

In fact, the biggest problem this year for Cutler could be Turner himself.

LonghornsLegend
05-10-2009, 04:38 PM
zing!


i just realized, Brandon Marshall is a FA at the end of this year. With McDaniel's focus on high character, could they move on without him?

Imagine if he goes to the Bears, and the Bears steal Cutler and Marshall? Meanwhile McDaniels is going 2-14 with his schemez and high character JAGs?


Marshall is probably a lock to be out of Denver, he'll just want top dollar and Denver won't want to hand that out knowing of all of his legal troubles...The ideal situation seems to be like franchising and trying to trade him.


I actually think Eddie Royal could be a #1 WR for Denver, he'd still probably kick down to the slot in 3 WR sets, but I think he can beat #1 corners week in and out.

CC.SD
05-10-2009, 06:19 PM
Marshall is probably a lock to be out of Denver, he'll just want top dollar and Denver won't want to hand that out knowing of all of his legal troubles...The ideal situation seems to be like franchising and trying to trade him.


I actually think Eddie Royal could be a #1 WR for Denver, he'd still probably kick down to the slot in 3 WR sets, but I think he can beat #1 corners week in and out.

Cosign, and what's more I think he's the one guy who might benefit from Orton/Cutler, like his skillset a lot.

the decider13
05-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Dang it...I totally forgot that Marshall was going to be a FA. I guess I should start wearing my Marshall hoody more often. Then maybe grab an Eddie Royal jersey. I wish he would stay, but he is gonna want tons of money.

OneToughGame
05-10-2009, 06:35 PM
Dang it...I totally forgot that Marshall was going to be a FA. I guess I should start wearing my Marshall hoody more often. Then maybe grab an Eddie Royal jersey. I wish he would stay, but he is gonna want tons of money.

I wish Marshall didn't do stupid ****.. I really like the guy as a player but he's pretty ******* stupid as a person lol. I'd like him to be a Seahawk in the future but god knows Tim Ruskell will never sign a player like that. This is saying of course if he were to even hit free agency.

MidwayMonster31
05-10-2009, 07:05 PM
Royal has everything to be a top receiver. He can do well in a spread by catching the ball underneath and taking it a long way. Don't be surprised if he beats his man and Orton can't get him the ball. That should make Marshall expendable. The only problem is that I can't see any team that is willing to trade for him with all the **** he gets himself into. He will probably end up going into free agency. Moreno should do well with his skills. The offensive line has to play as well as they last year in order for Denver to have a chance.

the decider13
05-10-2009, 07:41 PM
Royal definately has the tools to be a number one receiver. The only thing about the WR group that I question is that there isn't really a tall redzone threat other than Marshall. Most of the other guys are pretty small. McD must have seen something in Chad Jackson and Gaffney that he liked in NE, because he brought him in to play for the Broncos.

I honestly don't see the Broncos failing horribly like everyone seems to think. Playoffs? Probably not. But it isn't like the team has no talent and Cutler was the lone bright spot. He was able to put up gaudy stats not just because of his talent, but because he had a good supporting cast around him. I don't get how people can dismiss Cassel so quickly because of supporting cast, yet talk about how awesome Cutler was and how he was the only good player in the offense.

I'm not sure what I am talking about anymore, I just didn't see this thread of bronco bashing till just a little big ago lol

bigbluedefense
05-10-2009, 08:07 PM
I see Eddie Royal being Denver's Wes Welker. I can see him being used in a similar way. A lot of slot action, a lot of screens and horizontal routes.

He's perfect for it. I really like him as a player.


And to be fair to the Broncos, Decider is right. There is talent on that team. The thing is, that team had SB caliber potential with Cutler. Not anymore. Even when they fix that defense, they'll still need a qb. So its like they took 4 steps backwards in an attempt to move 1 step forward. Thats my main issue.


As for the talent itself, yes, they have offensive firepower. Theres no denying that. But now its compromised without a franchise qb. And defensively, I like the potential of Smith and Ayers, and I think Dumerville can thrive as a rushbacker, but thats about it. And they have a huge hole at NT, so I don't expect their defense to be any better than it was last year.

Maybe just a notch above what it was.

It will take this team a minimum of 3 years just to get back to being a mid level playoff team. It should have been 2 years away from being a SB contender, if not sooner.

4 steps backwards to go 1 step forward.

Xenos
05-10-2009, 09:57 PM
I see Eddie Royal being Denver's Wes Welker. I can see him being used in a similar way. A lot of slot action, a lot of screens and horizontal routes.

He's perfect for it. I really like him as a player.


And to be fair to the Broncos, Decider is right. There is talent on that team. The thing is, that team had SB caliber potential with Cutler. Not anymore. Even when they fix that defense, they'll still need a qb. So its like they took 4 steps backwards in an attempt to move 1 step forward. Thats my main issue.


As for the talent itself, yes, they have offensive firepower. Theres no denying that. But now its compromised without a franchise qb. And defensively, I like the potential of Smith and Ayers, and I think Dumerville can thrive as a rushbacker, but thats about it. And they have a huge hole at NT, so I don't expect their defense to be any better than it was last year.

Maybe just a notch above what it was.

It will take this team a minimum of 3 years just to get back to being a mid level playoff team. It should have been 2 years away from being a SB contender, if not sooner.

4 steps backwards to go 1 step forward.
As many Bears fans will point out, I'm not the biggest Cutler fan. I guess I just don't see him being that great even with all the upside. He has all the physical tools, but lacks what matters most between his shoulders. Plus, I don't think he has what it takes to be a leader on a team.

For example, looking back at the first meeting between San Diego and Denver in the 2007 game (when SD was 1-3 and Denver 3-1), I saw someone who couldn't lead anyone. SD absolutely gave Denver a beating. And Cutler could only muster up a measley three points. The saddest thing about the situation was that we didn't pressure Cutler the entire game. I believe one lone sack against Cutler came at the end of the game.

Fast forward to 2008, and even with all this offensive weapon, Cutler led a very average team in terms of points. Sure they were number 2 in offensive yards, but that's basically a useless stat if you don't score. I also understand that they had 8 rbs on IR. But that still doesn't excuse some of his inconsistent plays against medicore teams. The second Oakland game is the perfect example. Cutler had a healthy Peyton Hillis in that game but they still couldn't generate enough points against a bad Raider defense.

I guess I see a guy who is very much like Romo when it comes to choking during the time that matters most. Throw in the fact that Cutler is stuck with an inept OC in Turner as well as fewer weapons and a worst oline, I just don't see him doing as well as people think.

If I sound upset, it's because I was disappointed that he left the division. SD always seem to play well against Denver when he was the QB.

eaglesalltheway
05-11-2009, 06:46 AM
As many Bears fans will point out, I'm not the biggest Cutler fan. I guess I just don't see him being that great even with all the upside. He has all the physical tools, but lacks what matters most between his shoulders. Plus, I don't think he has what it takes to be a leader on a team.

For example, looking back at the first meeting between San Diego and Denver in the 2007 game (when SD was 1-3 and Denver 3-1), I saw someone who couldn't lead anyone. SD absolutely gave Denver a beating. And Cutler could only muster up a measley three points. The saddest thing about the situation was that we didn't pressure Cutler the entire game. I believe one lone sack against Cutler came at the end of the game.

Fast forward to 2008, and even with all this offensive weapon, Cutler led a very average team in terms of points. Sure they were number 2 in offensive yards, but that's basically a useless stat if you don't score. I also understand that they had 8 rbs on IR. But that still doesn't excuse some of his inconsistent plays against medicore teams. The second Oakland game is the perfect example. Cutler had a healthy Peyton Hillis in that game but they still couldn't generate enough points against a bad Raider defense.

I guess I see a guy who is very much like Romo when it comes to choking during the time that matters most. Throw in the fact that Cutler is stuck with an inept OC in Turner as well as fewer weapons and a worst oline, I just don't see him doing as well as people think.

If I sound upset, it's because I was disappointed that he left the division. SD always seem to play well against Denver when he was the QB.

When did Cutler lose his esophagus?


Seriously though, I like Cutler, he seems to have those leadership qualities, as well as almost everything you want physically out of a QB. He has the potential to take the Bears to the Superbowl in a few years, as long as they make good decisions to support him.

bigbluedefense
05-11-2009, 11:17 AM
As many Bears fans will point out, I'm not the biggest Cutler fan. I guess I just don't see him being that great even with all the upside. He has all the physical tools, but lacks what matters most between his shoulders. Plus, I don't think he has what it takes to be a leader on a team.

For example, looking back at the first meeting between San Diego and Denver in the 2007 game (when SD was 1-3 and Denver 3-1), I saw someone who couldn't lead anyone. SD absolutely gave Denver a beating. And Cutler could only muster up a measley three points. The saddest thing about the situation was that we didn't pressure Cutler the entire game. I believe one lone sack against Cutler came at the end of the game.

Fast forward to 2008, and even with all this offensive weapon, Cutler led a very average team in terms of points. Sure they were number 2 in offensive yards, but that's basically a useless stat if you don't score. I also understand that they had 8 rbs on IR. But that still doesn't excuse some of his inconsistent plays against medicore teams. The second Oakland game is the perfect example. Cutler had a healthy Peyton Hillis in that game but they still couldn't generate enough points against a bad Raider defense.

I guess I see a guy who is very much like Romo when it comes to choking during the time that matters most. Throw in the fact that Cutler is stuck with an inept OC in Turner as well as fewer weapons and a worst oline, I just don't see him doing as well as people think.

If I sound upset, it's because I was disappointed that he left the division. SD always seem to play well against Denver when he was the QB.

I dunno, without writing an essay, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think he's a gamer all the way.

When your defense can't stop a high school offense, its hard for you to win, no matter how gaudy your offense is. Take the final game against the Chargers for example. Win and go to the playoffs. Cutler held it down initially, he was scoring right with Rivers. But after failure after failure from his defense, he just couldn't keep up. And forced throws and turnovers, really bc he had no choice but to force things.

I don't put that on him. I think without Cutler that team goes 2-14 last year. There were games when he took over.

There will definitely be a dropoff in production in Chicago, and perhaps a couple of years without playoff contention. Who knows. But this was a long term decision by the Bears, and a smart one at that. Its hard finding a franchise qb in places like Chicago or NY for example. When you have the chance to get a guy, go get him. The last Bears qb worth a damn played in like 1930. McMahon doesn't count.

damn i said i wouldn't write an essay, and i wrote an essay =/

Geo
05-11-2009, 11:57 AM
Cutler's good for at least one braindead play every game. And thus far hasn't shown what it takes as a QB and as a leader to lead his team to the playoffs, he's failed every year as a pro in that regard.

That said, he's still an exceptional talent and young QBs such as that are incredibly hard to find. I absolutely agree with what the Bears did, it was the right move for them.

Fast forward to 2008, and even with all this offensive weapon, Cutler led a very average team in terms of points. Sure they were number 2 in offensive yards, but that's basically a useless stat if you don't score.
Glad to see someone else can see the truth. Even Mayock made this idiot mistake.

bigbluedefense
05-11-2009, 12:42 PM
As far as scoring TDs goes, its not as simple as the stat indicates. Its hard scoring touchdowns when you can't run the ball in the redzone. And they couldn't run in the redzone, or at all for that matter for most of the year.

Let's not forget the guy was in his 3rd year. You don't become a franchise qb overnight, it takes time. He'll only get better.

If the Vikings don't get Favre, I could see Cutler making the playoffs this year. That Bears defense isn't what it used to be, but its not as bad as ppl think either. Plus I think the Bear's offense is underrated.

Forte is a beast, their oline is respectable, Olsen is a great target, Hester will develop (I believe in Hester), its not that that bad. He has some guys out there. Like mentioned earlier, his biggest issue will be Ron Turner moreso than talent.

MidwayMonster31
05-11-2009, 05:56 PM
For the Bears, Cutler will have to cut down on some of the silly mistakes that he made in Denver. One thing that he has going for him is that Forte is an excellent receiver out of the backfield. You know that you can get a lot out of him. One problem is that Forte stayed out of games in brief stretches. Kevin Jones will have to be able to spell him because Forte can't carry the load for the entire game. Olsen should be improved after two seasons, Clark should be solid.
Hester has been making good progress as a receiver, but without much of a veteran presence, I'm kind of worried about the development of the young guys (Bennett, Iglesias and Knox). I think that the offensive line should play better if they can stay healthy.
For the defense, we drafted Gilbert and Melton who are athletic, but raw. I'm not sure what to expect out of those guys. This is the first year in a while that Harris is not coming off of a surgery, so I think he should have a better year. Harrison showed promise last year and I think that he can get the starting job next to Harris. Dvorachek played well until getting hurt, we'll see what happens with him. The pass rush was my biggest concern going into the offseason. The lack of a pass rush really stood out in the Atlanta, Tampa Bay and Houston losses.
For the linebackers, Urlacher may take a step back, but should still be productive. Briggs has been our best player for the last 3 years, so he should have another good year. Hillenmeyer might have problems, but I think Freeman or Roach can step in. I think Jamar Williams ends up getting cut after Freeman beats him out.
The secondary had a ton of injuries last year. Tillman has had his shoulder problems, Vasher had arm problems. At least Graham showed that he can start. Moore could also make some plays when he gets the chance to go in. Bowman played pretty well in his one start, but health has been an issue for him. Whoever the starter is at free safety could have a huge impact on this team. Payne should also progress well after having a full year of starting. Steltz can make a few big plays.
We have to rely on our special teams in order to do well. I would rather see Manning and Knox return kicks and have Moore return punts, so Hester can concentrate on being a wide receiver.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2009, 09:01 AM
For the Bears, Cutler will have to cut down on some of the silly mistakes that he made in Denver. One thing that he has going for him is that Forte is an excellent receiver out of the backfield. You know that you can get a lot out of him. One problem is that Forte stayed out of games in brief stretches. Kevin Jones will have to be able to spell him because Forte can't carry the load for the entire game. Olsen should be improved after two seasons, Clark should be solid.
Hester has been making good progress as a receiver, but without much of a veteran presence, I'm kind of worried about the development of the young guys (Bennett, Iglesias and Knox). I think that the offensive line should play better if they can stay healthy.
For the defense, we drafted Gilbert and Melton who are athletic, but raw. I'm not sure what to expect out of those guys. This is the first year in a while that Harris is not coming off of a surgery, so I think he should have a better year. Harrison showed promise last year and I think that he can get the starting job next to Harris. Dvorachek played well until getting hurt, we'll see what happens with him. The pass rush was my biggest concern going into the offseason. The lack of a pass rush really stood out in the Atlanta, Tampa Bay and Houston losses.
For the linebackers, Urlacher may take a step back, but should still be productive. Briggs has been our best player for the last 3 years, so he should have another good year. Hillenmeyer might have problems, but I think Freeman or Roach can step in. I think Jamar Williams ends up getting cut after Freeman beats him out.
The secondary had a ton of injuries last year. Tillman has had his shoulder problems, Vasher had arm problems. At least Graham showed that he can start. Moore could also make some plays when he gets the chance to go in. Bowman played pretty well in his one start, but health has been an issue for him. Whoever the starter is at free safety could have a huge impact on this team. Payne should also progress well after having a full year of starting. Steltz can make a few big plays.
We have to rely on our special teams in order to do well. I would rather see Manning and Knox return kicks and have Moore return punts, so Hester can concentrate on being a wide receiver.

my main issue with the Bears is their completely inept safety duo. i know the pass rush wasn't there this year, but i expect it to be better next year with the additions in the draft, and improved health.

Mark Anderson should step it up too. Not as worried as most Bears fans about the dline or lb core, I think theyre good enough. I see the major hole being the secondary to be honest. I don't think too much of the Bears secondary.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2009, 09:02 AM
On a side note, leave it to the Redskins to take something in the draft as sweet as Brian Orakpo falling to them, and ******* it up by moving him to SAM.


Atta boy. Keep making me proud Washington. Keep making me proud. You have a potential top 5 defense in the league with the guy at LE, but instead you're playing him at SAM.

Good call.

Sniper
05-12-2009, 09:09 AM
On a side note, leave it to the Redskins to take something in the draft as sweet as Brian Orakpo falling to them, and ******* it up by moving him to SAM.


http://www.ronirbyphoto.com/RonIrbyPhoto/Downloads/Shot%20of%20the%20week/Ingram.jpg

Cornelius is greatly pleased.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2009, 09:41 AM
http://www.ronirbyphoto.com/RonIrbyPhoto/Downloads/Shot%20of%20the%20week/Ingram.jpg

Cornelius is greatly pleased.

As is Kevin Boss and Travis Beckum :)


I think people sleep on that skins defense though. Its gonna be beastly. They love running man coverage and 4 man rushes, and with Haynesworth, Carter and what should be Orakpo on the line, they'll get pressure.

Plus they have great man coverage defenders. Rogers, Hall, Landry, and Horton make a beastly secondary, and McIntosh and Fletcher make a sweet LB duo.

This defense is pretty nasty. I really like their defense. It doesn't get its due.

LonghornsLegend
05-12-2009, 11:05 AM
I see Eddie Royal being Denver's Wes Welker. I can see him being used in a similar way. A lot of slot action, a lot of screens and horizontal routes.

He's perfect for it. I really like him as a player.

From everything I have heard they are using him exactly like that, outside in 2 WR sets, kicks down to the slot in 3 WR sets, he could probably catch 100 balls this year if he plays every game...I'm really interested to see what type of potential he has, his route running was pretty incredible for a rookie WR, I want to see where he can take his game to.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2009, 11:49 AM
From everything I have heard they are using him exactly like that, outside in 2 WR sets, kicks down to the slot in 3 WR sets, he could probably catch 100 balls this year if he plays every game...I'm really interested to see what type of potential he has, his route running was pretty incredible for a rookie WR, I want to see where he can take his game to.

note to self: draft Eddie Royal in my espn league.

Gay Ork Wang
05-12-2009, 12:03 PM
my main issue with the Bears is their completely inept safety duo. i know the pass rush wasn't there this year, but i expect it to be better next year with the additions in the draft, and improved health.

Mark Anderson should step it up too. Not as worried as most Bears fans about the dline or lb core, I think theyre good enough. I see the major hole being the secondary to be honest. I don't think too much of the Bears secondary.
Kevin Payne was at least a slightly above average starter, FS is the real big whole

the decider13
05-12-2009, 12:08 PM
note to self: draft Eddie Royal in my espn league.

Yes...I will probably end up "overdrafting" him, but it won't look stupid when he puts up crazy stats.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2009, 01:11 PM
As far as scoring TDs goes, its not as simple as the stat indicates. Its hard scoring touchdowns when you can't run the ball in the redzone. And they couldn't run in the redzone, or at all for that matter for most of the year.

Let's not forget the guy was in his 3rd year. You don't become a franchise qb overnight, it takes time. He'll only get better.

If the Vikings don't get Favre, I could see Cutler making the playoffs this year. That Bears defense isn't what it used to be, but its not as bad as ppl think either. Plus I think the Bear's offense is underrated.

Forte is a beast, their oline is respectable, Olsen is a great target, Hester will develop (I believe in Hester), its not that that bad. He has some guys out there. Like mentioned earlier, his biggest issue will be Ron Turner moreso than talent.

I agree, right not I have the Bears winning the NFC North, just barely ahead of both Minnesota and GB. I think the offense is very underrated, and as long as the line can stay healthy, they have a legitimate shot to have a good offense. I'm a big fan of Matt Forte, and he is a balanced wapon that can be used just about any way possible. Olsen is a young TE who has shown he is a very good option and I think he will continue his developement. Cutler has a good set of weapons to work with, and that is still a solid defense. They are underrated a bit, because of injuries last year.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2009, 01:16 PM
On a side note, leave it to the Redskins to take something in the draft as sweet as Brian Orakpo falling to them, and ******* it up by moving him to SAM.


Atta boy. Keep making me proud Washington. Keep making me proud. You have a potential top 5 defense in the league with the guy at LE, but instead you're playing him at SAM.

Good call.

I don't get that move either. It truly baffles me that the Skins are doing that, as I've said before.

I think Orakpo would've been a much better RE than LE though, he was so quick off the snap, and just had the nose for the QB. I'm not saying he couldn't be an LE, but I think because of his pass rush capbilities, and his need to improve in the run game, he would be much better going up as a RE than at LE, where he would need to work much more on his ability to hold the POA.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2009, 01:19 PM
As is Kevin Boss and Travis Beckum :)


I think people sleep on that skins defense though. Its gonna be beastly. They love running man coverage and 4 man rushes, and with Haynesworth, Carter and what should be Orakpo on the line, they'll get pressure.

Plus they have great man coverage defenders. Rogers, Hall, Landry, and Horton make a beastly secondary, and McIntosh and Fletcher make a sweet LB duo.

This defense is pretty nasty. I really like their defense. It doesn't get its due.

Agreed, they have a damn good D, even with Orakpo out of position. They were top 8 or 10 last year IIRC, and they have improved.

The truth is though, no one likes Orakpo at SAM more than Jason Witten. Orakpo is going to need tons of help covering Witten. Just absolutely crazy what Witten does to LBs, let alone LBs who aren't strong in coverage.

CC.SD
05-12-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't get that move either. It truly baffles me that the Skins are doing that, as I've said before.

I think Orakpo would've been a much better RE than LE though, he was so quick off the snap, and just had the nose for the QB. I'm not saying he couldn't be an LE, but I think because of his pass rush capbilities, and his need to improve in the run game, he would be much better going up as a RE than at LE, where he would need to work much more on his ability to hold the POA.

I agree on principle but his picture perfect size makes him a LE if you ask me. Either way...not SAM. Not even situationally. Stoppit Washington.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2009, 01:28 PM
I agree on principle but his picture perfect size makes him a LE if you ask me. Either way...not SAM. Not even situationally. Stoppit Washington.

I'm not saying he can't but until he learns how to hold the POA better, I'd want him at RE, where I could utilize his quickness and minimize the negative affect of him holding up agianst the run. Once he has that technique and leverage, and shows that he can hold the POA, then I'd make the switch. But honestly, he can be successful at either DE spot.

LonghornsLegend
05-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Leave it up to Washington to toy with a perfect thing, going to a 4-3 is the ideal scenario for Orakpo until you insist on him standing up some downs, I remember hearing they would do this months before the draft and hoping he wouldn't end up there.


How many other guys in the league do this that you guys know of? In a 4-3 defense, that are tweeners like this, because it doesn't seem all that common to be playing both spots back and forth like that...Kiwi was a guy that came to mind but I thought he was a full-time DE then switched to a LB when Osi went down.


He's in the same mold as a John Abraham, line him up next to Haynesworth each play and let him grow as a full-time DE, if he blows as a SAM then your going to be scrambling to make the move later after he's wasted all that time learning another spot.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Leave it up to Washington to toy with a perfect thing, going to a 4-3 is the ideal scenario for Orakpo until you insist on him standing up some downs, I remember hearing they would do this months before the draft and hoping he wouldn't end up there.


How many other guys in the league do this that you guys know of? In a 4-3 defense, that are tweeners like this, because it doesn't seem all that common to be playing both spots back and forth like that...Kiwi was a guy that came to mind but I thought he was a full-time DE then switched to a LB when Osi went down.


He's in the same mold as a John Abraham, line him up next to Haynesworth each play and let him grow as a full-time DE, if he blows as a SAM then your going to be scrambling to make the move later after he's wasted all that time learning another spot.

Orakpo's situation really bothers me, I like him a lot, and Washignton is aquandering an opportunity to have an elite DL.

You have the Kiwi situation a little off, as far as what I've heard. He was a DE, then the team wanted to put him at SAM, but then Osi got hurt and they needed to move him back to DE. Chris Gocong was a tweener who is a SAM i the 4-3 though...

I really hope the Skins change their mind, at least for Orakpo's sake. I didn't like him as a OLB in the 3-4, and this situation is even worse for him...