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View Full Version : Georgia fans....Asher Allen???


BGB
04-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Vikings fan here! I was hoping to get some feed back on Asher Allen. I know most Vikings fans were pretty dissapointed that we took Allen over DJ Moore. After doing some more research I think Allen might have been the better pick and better fit in our cover 2 scheme. He has already done a few radio interviews here and he really admires Antione Winfield. I think he might be able to bring similar things to our D except is looks like he has a lot more speed then Winfield after seeing he ran a 4.33 at his pro day!

What can us Viking fans expect from this kid?

Ozzy
04-28-2009, 02:20 PM
As a Viking fan myself, I really wish we could have got DJ Moore. Could be argued even Munnerlyn is a better slot corner than Asher Allen.

Allen is a good player though, will fit the mold that Gordon played last year as a nickle corner. Still DJ Moore is a bigger corner and far more athletic and gifted than Allen. Allen is a backup and most likely will never be a starter, Moore on the other had has starter potential down the road.

We did pickup Karl Paymah who will most likely be the nickle corner, and we also have Benny Sapp and Gordon as well. Where Allen fits in who knows, it is not a horrible pick but he was not the best corner there. Tough little kid but he has limited potential.

BigBanger
04-28-2009, 02:32 PM
Asher Allen doesn't have 4.3 speed. He hardly has 4.4 speed. Very good natural cover corner though that made his national presence felt against Hawaii where he picked off Colt Brennan twice and shut down everyone across from him. Had a very nice junior year. Nothing special, but a solid corner that will make that team and contribute.

Shane P. Hallam
04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
Allen came out early, he is a bit young in the tooth, but he is a great fit for the zone system the Vikings one. He may need a year or two to develop his skills. He can become a playmaker in your secondary since he is very natural and doesn't have to "think" before reacting/doing.

Halsey
04-28-2009, 02:53 PM
He's pretty typical of what you should expect to get from a CB in the middle rounds. He will likely never be a star, but should be a solid nickel and maybe eventual starter. He only played 3 years of college so he may have some upside.

GB12
04-28-2009, 03:09 PM
He loves college.

BGB
04-28-2009, 03:22 PM
Asher Allen doesn't have 4.3 speed. He hardly has 4.4 speed. Very good natural cover corner though that made his national presence felt against Hawaii where he picked off Colt Brennan twice and shut down everyone across from him. Had a very nice junior year. Nothing special, but a solid corner that will make that team and contribute.


So the stuff a read about him running a 4.33 40 at his proday isn't true?

georgiafan
04-28-2009, 03:32 PM
He is a very good tacker and can come up and make plays agianst the run. He also was a good kick returner as a sophmore on Kick returns. He has experience in in zone coverage so I could see him coming in play right away as a nickle or dime back despite coming out early. He has played since his freshman year so has played in a lot of games. At times it was hard to judge him in games as UGA pass rush was one of the worst in the country this past year. If he would have came back for his senior year and played good he would have went earlier. I'm not sure what his true 40 time is, but i've never seen anyone run past him in the game.

SimonRath
04-28-2009, 03:32 PM
i ******* loved Asher Allen.
I wanted him on the Falcons soooo bad (an im not even a UGA fan)

pr0d1gy
04-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I am a UGA Alum so here is the skinny on Asher Allen.

Quality cover corner that lacks ideal speed and length, but makes up for it with heady play and playing physical when needed. A solid tackler that will usually prevent getting beat deep and make the sure tackle if he gets beat, but he could stand to beef up a little for the NFL.

I would have taken him somewhere between round 3-5 and felt good about it were I picking. I would also be projecting him as either a cover 2 corner or a FS. Of course, as we have all come to discover, the corner's speed only really matter when your team is getting no pressure....which is bad for any corner, anyways.

BGB
04-28-2009, 11:13 PM
I am a UGA Alum so here is the skinny on Asher Allen.

Quality cover corner that lacks ideal speed and length, but makes up for it with heady play and playing physical when needed. A solid tackler that will usually prevent getting beat deep and make the sure tackle if he gets beat, but he could stand to beef up a little for the NFL.

I would have taken him somewhere between round 3-5 and felt good about it were I picking. I would also be projecting him as either a cover 2 corner or a FS. Of course, as we have all come to discover, the corner's speed only really matter when your team is getting no pressure....which is bad for any corner, anyways.

So were the reports that he ran a 4.33 at his pro day exagerated? I noticed that he ran in the 4.6 range at the combine so I did think it was a little strange that he would run a 4.33 at his pro day. Thats a little wide of a spread.

BigBanger
04-28-2009, 11:31 PM
So were the reports that he ran a 4.33 at his pro day exagerated? I noticed that he ran in the 4.6 range at the combine so I did think it was a little strange that he would run a 4.33 at his pro day. Thats a little wide of a spread.
Pro Days mean nothing. Never look at those numbers. They're always ten times better than their Combine numbers. He's a 4.5 type of guy. He fits well in that scheme. Who reported that? Who timed that? How much do you deduct from the fast track and the ten mph wind at his back? The numbers are garbage.

He's not a 4.3 guy. Whatever he did at his Pro Day, doesn't matter. You know 4.3 when you see it, and Asher Allen isn't a 4.3. He would have gone a lot higher if he was.

He is a natural cover corner, but he doesn't have the speed or really the size to play man coverage in the NFL.

Mr. Hero
04-28-2009, 11:38 PM
The "fast track" and "wind at his back" didn't help moreno at all at UGA's pro-day.

BigBanger
04-28-2009, 11:41 PM
The "fast track" and "wind at his back" didn't help moreno at all at UGA's pro-day.
All right. He's 4.3. Go ahead and think that.

pr0d1gy
04-29-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't need a stop watch to tell me what I watched for 4 years guys. Quit living for stats.

Oh, and as for our former RB, that is because Moreno isn't that good. I was shocked he went in the first round, because he also lacks the ideal size for the NFL and the kind of breakaway speed that would make a RB his size worth taking so high. It was almost a poor pick for the Eagles, whom everyone said would take him, but became an even worse pick earlier in the round by Denver.

I respect what Moreno did for our school's team, but I'm just telling you if he does well in the NFL it is because his O line is very good. He's like Darren McFadden and Felix Jones without the speed....kinda like Carnell Cadillac Williams.

Halsey
04-29-2009, 12:01 PM
Built in excuses are funny. "He won't do well......but if he does it's only because he has a good offensive line." In other words you've already decided he won't do well and will not give him credit if he does. ;)

It's also funny that people make so much of Moreno's size. His height is ideal and his weight of 210ish is a whopping 7 lbs under the weight Adrian Peterson is listed at.

pr0d1gy
04-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Built in excuses are funny. "He won't do well......but if he does it's only because he has a good offensive line." In other words you've already decided he won't do well and will not give him credit if he does. ;)

It's also funny that people make so much of Moreno's size. His height is ideal and his weight of 210ish is a whopping 7 lbs under the weight Adrian Peterson is listed at.

Yeah, Moreno won't be running behind the Vikes O line, including their new mauler at RT. Moreno isn't that good man. Every good D we played against shut him down. Face it. I loved him, too, but when you are analyzing for the NFL draft you have to remove homer-love.

Halsey
04-30-2009, 04:29 AM
Another sophmoric argument ftw: "Good defenses shut him down." So in other words any defense that didn't shut him down is 'not good'. I guess UGA only played 3 or 4 good defenses over the last 2 years... :D

and my homerism must have caused Moreno to be the first back taken in the Draft...

Mr. Hero
04-30-2009, 05:08 AM
As a former gator fan, current gator enphusiast Knowshon gets way too much hate, he's quick, can cut, has remarkable balance, patience and vision with good enough size to be successful. Add in his impact in the passing game and I'll be surprised if he isn't OROY for the broncos.

These arguments remind me of DeAngelo Williams coming out of memphis, too small to be a power back, too slow to be a speed back, but he was just a pure RB who knew what he was doing and now that he's healthy and playing behind a good OL you're seeing him blow up.

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 05:30 AM
These arguments remind me of DeAngelo Williams coming out of memphis, too small to be a power back, too slow to be a speed back, but he was just a pure RB who knew what he was doing and now that he's healthy and playing behind a good OL you're seeing him blow up.

The only thing it doesn't remind you of is me saying anything negative about D.Williams. I thought he was the best back in that draft class, unlike Moreno who is about 3rd or 4th in this class, tops. It's good to see Moreno get support, but I was just giving a very accurate assessment of his NFL skill-set. He isn't nearly as fast as a Westbrook, not as big or physical as Brandon Jacobs, and not as explosive or dangerous as Adrian Peterson.

It just felt like Moreno was a pretty big reach with the 12th pick and I would like to see how other 200 pound RB's with 4.6 speed drafted in the top 12 of their draft have fared recently. Again, he most reminds me of Cadillac Williams if anyone is still listening to reason.

Mr. Hero
04-30-2009, 05:48 AM
The only thing it doesn't remind you of is me saying anything negative about D.Williams. I thought he was the best back in that draft class, unlike Moreno who is about 3rd or 4th in this class, tops. It's good to see Moreno get support, but I was just giving a very accurate assessment of his NFL skill-set. He isn't nearly as fast as a Westbrook, not as big or physical as Brandon Jacobs, and not as explosive or dangerous as Adrian Peterson.

It just felt like Moreno was a pretty big reach with the 12th pick and I would like to see how other 200 pound RB's with 4.6 speed drafted in the top 12 of their draft have fared recently. Again, he most reminds me of Cadillac Williams if anyone is still listening to reason.

THe one time we got to see cadillac healthy he was having a very good rookie year. *shrug* if you're going to ignore moreno just because the last guy drafted highly who was similar to him can't stay healthy than there's no reason to keep arguing. I don't think Moreno will have the durability problems Cadillac has but we'll see. Plus you're off on his weight, don't know if you're just trying to short change him to better your point but he's 210 which for his size and frame is a solid build. He can still bulk up and probably wouldn't slow down adding another 5-10 pounds.

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 06:40 AM
THe one time we got to see cadillac healthy he was having a very good rookie year. *shrug* if you're going to ignore moreno just because the last guy drafted highly who was similar to him can't stay healthy than there's no reason to keep arguing. I don't think Moreno will have the durability problems Cadillac has but we'll see. Plus you're off on his weight, don't know if you're just trying to short change him to better your point but he's 210 which for his size and frame is a solid build. He can still bulk up and probably wouldn't slow down adding another 5-10 pounds.


I'm not ignoring Moreno, I'm just saying it was a big reach taking him at #12 overall. His physical tools are less than most guys picked that high. Hell, Warrick Dunn has better tools coming out of college.

I'm sorry if this is not going along with what some of you may have said about Moreno before I came back around, but I am just giving you an unbiased scouting report on someone I watched play every one of their downs the past couple of years. The kid is a great emotional leader, he has a great heart and seems to genuinely love the game, but I just think the physicality of the NFL will be too much for him.

Hero, Moreno has been hurt, too. It will only get worse in the NFL for him, a lot worse.

BGB
04-30-2009, 09:32 AM
Does Moreno remind anyone of a current Viking Chester Taylor? When I watch them play I see a lot of simularities.

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 03:26 PM
Does Moreno remind anyone of a current Viking Chester Taylor? When I watch them play I see a lot of simularities.

Yeah and when was Chester drafted? Not in the top 12, I can assure you that. Look, again, I have great respect for what Moreno did for my college; but the simple truth is he does not have the ideal tools of an NFL RB. That is all I am saying. I have never said he would not make it in the NFL, but that he should not been a top 20 pick. The guy has great intangibles, a perfect attitude, and decent top end speed; to go along with his terrific elusiveness and quality vision. He has the tools to be a good NFL RB, I just don't think he should have been picked so high because he does not have the prototypical size, speed, and production you look for.

BGB
04-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Yeah and when was Chester drafted? Not in the top 12, I can assure you that. Look, again, I have great respect for what Moreno did for my college; but the simple truth is he does not have the ideal tools of an NFL RB. That is all I am saying. I have never said he would not make it in the NFL, but that he should not been a top 20 pick. The guy has great intangibles, a perfect attitude, and decent top end speed; to go along with his terrific elusiveness and quality vision. He has the tools to be a good NFL RB, I just don't think he should have been picked so high because he does not have the prototypical size, speed, and production you look for.



So would you consider yourself a height weight speed guy like Al Davis?

marshallb
04-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Yeah and when was Chester drafted? Not in the top 12, I can assure you that. Look, again, I have great respect for what Moreno did for my college; but the simple truth is he does not have the ideal tools of an NFL RB. That is all I am saying. I have never said he would not make it in the NFL, but that he should not been a top 20 pick. The guy has great intangibles, a perfect attitude, and decent top end speed; to go along with his terrific elusiveness and quality vision. He has the tools to be a good NFL RB, I just don't think he should have been picked so high because he does not have the prototypical size, speed, and production you look for.

What exactly do you look for as far as production? I guess that 2736 rushing and 645 receiving yards and 32 touchdowns in 2 years playing in the SEC is not good enough. That is plenty of production for me. I like Moreno, but I did not see him going #12 and thought that was a horrible pick, but not having the production you look for is absurd.

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 04:45 PM
So would you consider yourself a height weight speed guy like Al Davis?

Far from it, I would just expect a RB picked in the top 20 to have 2 out of 3 essentials....be it speed, size, or production. He doesn't have ideal size or speed so I felt the pick at 12 was a big reach. Wells dropping to 31 proved me right.

BigBanger
04-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Far from it, I would just expect a RB picked in the top 20 to have 2 out of 3 essentials....be it speed, size, or production. He doesn't have ideal size or speed so I felt the pick at 12 was a big reach. Wells dropping to 31 proved me right.
He's going to a team that's going to spread it out. Is it a great fit? Not as great as people think it is, but he's going to a team where he can produce and do it his rookie season. He is extremely similar to Cadillac Williams (Nearly identical). Both in terms of size, quickness, production, balance, vision and overall natural running ability. Both guys played behind their pads and run the ball like they were 6'2'' and 225 pounds. Williams had much better speed (I think he was in the 4.4s), so he was the better prospect. Did his size concern some teams? Of course, and that was a major reason why Ronnie Brown went ahead of him (his backup at Auburn).

Do I expect Moreno to have that same kind of career threatening injury like Williams had? No, because that's pretty rare for any RB, injury concerns or not. Darren McFadden had bigger injury concerns than Moreno does coming out. I don't think anyone is making a strong argument that Moreno is an elite RB prospect. He's not. The guy can do it all though. He blocks well. He picks up the blitz, and he's the best pure RB in this class when you consider his patience, balance, vision, elusiveness, cutting ability, burst through the hole and his pad level. He's one of the safest picks in this years draft. You know what kind of player you're getting. Is he Adrian Peterson? No, and everyone knows that.

I have Moreno in the top 15 and Donald Brown very close behind. I wouldn't be surprised to see him outperform Moreno, but I think both are going to be the two best backs from this class.

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't think anyone is making a strong argument that Moreno is an elite RB prospect. He's not.

And that is all I am trying to point out. I think he is a solid late first, high second at worst, but I think taking him at 12 was a big reach. I'm not saying he isn't a very good football player, as he obviously is. I am just saying I would not have taken him so high considering his lack of game-breaking speed and ideal size. And I look at game-breaking speed in games, not on tracks. I said AP was the top player when everyone else was calling injury concerns, and he didn't run a 4.25 or anything.

The Broncos should be happy with Moreno if they can open holes for him and their passing game doesn't fall out completely without what's his face.

Halsey
04-30-2009, 07:26 PM
The fact that Moreno was picked before Wells proves that Moreno was a reach! Wells was clealy the better prospect to every NFL team. That's why he was passed on 30 times...

pr0d1gy
04-30-2009, 07:35 PM
The fact that Moreno was picked before Wells proves that Moreno was a reach! Wells was clealy the better prospect to every NFL team. That's why he was passed on 30 times...

You still calling 680 the fan or whichever all the time Halsey? :rolleyes:

BGB
04-30-2009, 11:16 PM
The fact that Moreno was picked before Wells proves that Moreno was a reach! Wells was clealy the better prospect to every NFL team. That's why he was passed on 30 times...

Yea well coaches are not looking for prospects that look good on paper they are looking for real live breathing players that they think can help them win football games. Just because one guy is bigger, stronger, or faster doesn't mean he can help your team win any more then another player.

That's the differnce between a real NFL coach and someone blogging on the internet.

Maybe someone should tell Al Davis this.