PDA

View Full Version : What happens to Julius Peppers?


Chief49er
04-30-2009, 09:33 AM
Any news on if and when he is getting signed or traded?

If so, who makes the move. There is an article (purely speculation) that the 49ers would make sense in a trade for Peppers. What is the take from Panther fans and other fans of the NFL?

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/021930.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 09:36 AM
I don't think anyone is willing to give up the first and a third it would take to bring him in due to his current franchise status.

And even if with Panthers are willing to sign him and trade him for less than that, he'll surely want a long term deal in the range of Albert Haynesworth....and amount of money that many teams either don't have or aren't willing to pony up this time of year.

I bet he plays another year in Carolina, they franchise him again next year, and then trade him for anything they can get early next year.

tjsunstein
04-30-2009, 10:37 AM
Like BeerBaron said, the demands are too high and no one is desperate enough to pay that. I expect a holdout, he loses some money after being fined then proceeds to play for Carolina. I can see maybe New England giving up maybe 2 second rounders since they have that luxury.

jkpigskin
04-30-2009, 10:45 AM
if i was peppers... i would just stay in carolina...
that is the team that made him the 2nd pick overall and where he has made a name for himself... he also was a standout at unc...
its not like the panthers are a bad team... i guess that terrible loss to zona is still bitter in his mouth but you know, the panthers have just the same a chance as the patriots... but i guess with less money

but heck, its all about the money nowadays

Splat
04-30-2009, 10:47 AM
The Chiefs have two second round picks and crazy cap room lets make a deal...:)

tjsunstein
04-30-2009, 11:08 AM
The Chiefs have two second round picks and crazy cap room lets make a deal...:)

Doesn't Peppers have to waive his No Trade Clause? KC doesn't have a shot.

Addict
04-30-2009, 11:24 AM
He'll live happily ever after.

Chief49er
04-30-2009, 11:34 AM
The Chiefs have two second round picks and crazy cap room lets make a deal...:)

Well, the 49ers have two 1st rounders next year.. One of them happens to be the Panthers 1st.

A Perfect Score
04-30-2009, 11:47 AM
Well, the 49ers have two 1st rounders next year.. One of them happens to be the Panthers 1st.

Haha how ironic would it be if the Niners traded the Panthers their own first back for Peppers...that would be legendary

Gay Ork Wang
04-30-2009, 11:48 AM
Haha how ironic would it be if the Niners traded the Panthers their own first back for Peppers...that would be legendary
the panthers wouldve traded peppers for Brown, that would never happen. ever.

Addict
04-30-2009, 12:10 PM
the panthers wouldve traded peppers for Brown, that would never happen. ever.

It'd still be pretty cool if they did.

vidae
04-30-2009, 12:16 PM
He hasn't signed his franchise tender, correct? It was my understanding that until he signs that he can't be traded. The team can't even talk to other teams about potential trades. Is that correct?

I have a friend who is a Panthers fan and he was ranting about how stupid and selfish he's being.

Addict
04-30-2009, 12:25 PM
He hasn't signed his franchise tender, correct? It was my understanding that until he signs that he can't be traded. The team can't even talk to other teams about potential trades. Is that correct?

I have a friend who is a Panthers fan and he was ranting about how stupid and selfish he's being.

that's pretty much it. He refuses to sign the tender, but the Panthers have to save the cap space for that tender. They aren't allowed to trade him, all they get to do is withdraw the tender (making him a FA) or wait for him to do so. No trade talk until that tender has a signature.

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm seeing quite a few misconceptions here......

For 1, until he signs the tender, Peppers is technically a free agent. It's just that if anyone signs him, they'd have to give up a first and a third. So he's free to negotiate contract terms with teams right now. If he finds a good deal, then the team can talk to the Panthers about trading for him (and trying to give up less than a 1st and a 3rd for all that money Peppers will want.) If they reach a deal, Peppers can sign his tender, be traded and then sign his new deal.

Or at least thats how I believe it all works. Something along those lines.

Now that the Niners have been brought up.....that would be intersting if they skipped the trade route, signed Peppers to a blockbuster deal and gave the Panthers own first rounder back plus a 3rd. That'd be a sick move for the 49ers....The Panthers would either have to pay a whole lot of money to match the deal and lock up Peppers, or let him walk for basically pennies.

But Peppers will likely want Hayneworth kind of money and like I mentioned above, I doubt any team gives that to him now.

Gay Ork Wang
04-30-2009, 12:35 PM
teams cant ask to trade for him if he didnt sign the tender, thats how it works i believe

senormysterioso
04-30-2009, 12:58 PM
Does anybody know if he has to sit out the year if he doesn't sign his tender? Does he become an unrestricted free agent if he holds out long enough?

CC.SD
04-30-2009, 01:42 PM
Does anybody know if he has to sit out the year if he doesn't sign his tender? Does he become an unrestricted free agent if he holds out long enough?

He can hold out ten games, if he plays six it counts as an accrued year and he'll be a FA for 2010, unless he gets tagged again.

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 03:31 PM
teams cant ask to trade for him if he didnt sign the tender, thats how it works i believe

No. I'm not 100% sure on this but be it the player or the team, someone is allowed to negotiate the potential trade before the guy signs.

Addict
04-30-2009, 04:38 PM
No. I'm not 100% sure on this but be it the player or the team, someone is allowed to negotiate the potential trade before the guy signs.

I think I read somewhere (yeah that's real specific, I know) that no team is allowed to have any contact with Peppers as long as he hasn't signed his tender. Basically, Peppers needs to sign the tender, until then the panthers are only allowed to discuss long-term deals. Once the tender is signed, other teams can negotiate with him, signing him would then cost them the contract money promised to peppers, as well as a 1st and a 3rd.

If I'm getting this right, he's off-limits to everyone and anyone but the Panthers until he signs the damn tender. After that, he can be signed, at the cost of 1st and 3rd round picks. The panthers can trade Peppers + the tender for less than that, after which the team that gets teh rights can sign him to a long-term deal.

Flyboy
04-30-2009, 05:22 PM
Pretty sure Addict hit it right on the head.

LonghornsLegend
04-30-2009, 05:26 PM
He can hold out ten games, if he plays six it counts as an accrued year and he'll be a FA for 2010, unless he gets tagged again.

16 million for 6 games, wow...That's just ridiculous, the Panthers should of just bitten the bullet ie Tennessee and let him go, that's crippling to your cap.


By all accounts if he holds out long enough he could come back and suck this year, and still be one of the highest paid players in the league by a nice size margin...And If I'm not mistaken tagging him again would double that amount or something similiar.

Addict
04-30-2009, 05:27 PM
Pretty sure Addict hit it right on the head.

with a nailgun ;)

Addict
04-30-2009, 05:34 PM
16 million for 6 games, wow...That's just ridiculous, the Panthers should of just bitten the bullet ie Tennessee and let him go, that's crippling to your cap.


By all accounts if he holds out long enough he could come back and suck this year, and still be one of the highest paid players in the league by a nice size margin...And If I'm not mistaken tagging him again would double that amount or something similiar.

re-franchise tagging him wouldn't double the amount of money, it'd just be a higher amount since the contract values of the top 5 DE's go up (or is it top 10? either way, they go up). IIRC the Patriots tagged the same guy two or three times... if the cost of the tag doubled annually that wouldn't be possible.

If you ask me, Peppers is being a complete idiot. If he wants to play in a 3-4, he needs to sign the tender and THEN hold out. Right now, even if the Panthers want to move him, they're not allowed because that moron won't sing his tender. He's not being smart here, or intelligent, or even business savvy. He's just being a stubborn fool. If you want to be traded, the first priority would be to make sure your team is actually allowed to trade you. I don't really understand what he's trying to achieve... maybe he wants to force the Panthers into converting into a 3-4 by holding out. Which unlikely as it is, is more likely than him being traded as long as he doens't SIGN THE DAMN TENDER.

CC.SD
04-30-2009, 05:43 PM
with a nailgun ;)

http://garysaid.com/images/nailgun.jpg

PS that was a fun google search.

Flyboy
04-30-2009, 05:50 PM
Looks like something that was on an episode of Grey's Anatomy.

...

...

What?

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 06:00 PM
I think I read somewhere (yeah that's real specific, I know) that no team is allowed to have any contact with Peppers as long as he hasn't signed his tender. Basically, Peppers needs to sign the tender, until then the panthers are only allowed to discuss long-term deals. Once the tender is signed, other teams can negotiate with him, signing him would then cost them the contract money promised to peppers, as well as a 1st and a 3rd.

If I'm getting this right, he's off-limits to everyone and anyone but the Panthers until he signs the damn tender. After that, he can be signed, at the cost of 1st and 3rd round picks. The panthers can trade Peppers + the tender for less than that, after which the team that gets teh rights can sign him to a long-term deal.

I'm almost positive that it's the opposite of that. Other teams can contact him and potentially contract him, but once he signs the tender, he becomes sole property of the Panthers.

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm almost positive that it's the opposite of that. Other teams can contact him and potentially contract him, but once he signs the tender, he becomes sole property of the Panthers.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/26/recipe-for-trading-a-franchise-player/

Boom.

1. The franchise player and his potential new team work out a long-term contract;

2. The new team and old team work out the terms of a trade;

3. The player signs his franchise tender;

4. The player signs the new long-term contract;

5. The player is traded.

I knew what I was talking about.

BmoreBlackByrdz
04-30-2009, 06:02 PM
So basically, Peppers is screwing himself and the Panthers by not signing the tender? What exactly does he gain by not doing so? He's an idiot.

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 06:03 PM
So basically, Peppers is screwing himself and the Panthers by not signing the tender? What exactly does he gain by not doing so? He's an idiot.

He's not techincally under contract so he can skip any camps or things like that without penalty, and he can also wait and hope a team approaches him with a long term deal. See what I posted right above you.

Addict
04-30-2009, 06:08 PM
it says bearing the tag...

I think that's where I derailed. I assumed that having the tag and signing the tender was the same thing. Silly me.

BeerBaron
04-30-2009, 06:09 PM
it says bearing the tag...

I think that's where I derailed. I assumed that having the tag and signing the tender was the same thing. Silly me.

That they are not.....Right now Peppers is definitely tagged, but he hasn't signed his tender.

Addict
04-30-2009, 06:11 PM
That they are not.....Right now Peppers is definitely tagged, but he hasn't signed his tender.

hence my confusion ;).

Brown Leader
05-01-2009, 09:40 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/26/recipe-for-trading-a-franchise-player/

Boom.



I knew what I was talking about.



I thought it was only his agent the could negotiate trade terms with other teams. Team to team talk not allowed while he's not tendered?

BeerBaron
05-01-2009, 09:50 AM
I thought it was only his agent the could negotiate trade terms with other teams. Team to team talk not allowed while he's not tendered?

Well, according to that article, the first and 2nd steps are interchangable....so i guess teams can talk even while not tendered.

CC.SD
05-01-2009, 10:17 AM
While I think all this "he has to sign the tag" talk is legitimate, we have to get real guys. Do you think teams weren't having trade discussions about Peppers? Of course they were. Signing the tag is just an afterthought, the reality is that behind the scenes nobody worked out a deal that the Panthers couldn't refuse.

Splat
05-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Peppers a no-show for start of Panthers minicamp (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-panthers-peppers&prov=ap&type=lgns)

jsagan77
05-02-2009, 12:08 AM
that's pretty much it. He refuses to sign the tender, but the Panthers have to save the cap space for that tender. They aren't allowed to trade him, all they get to do is withdraw the tender (making him a FA) or wait for him to do so. No trade talk until that tender has a signature.

If he was being selfish he'd take the money and play like crap for the Panthers. Instead, he's telling them he doesn't want to be there so please trade me while you can still get value for me.

I just don't get how him saving them a ton of money and getting them extra picks is being selfish??

bam bam
05-02-2009, 12:43 AM
I think the Panthers trading away their 2010 first rounder, for a pass rusher no less, might show that they are confident someone will come calling with a first round pick in hand.

BlindSite
05-02-2009, 02:39 AM
It's not about the money, because Peppers was offered enough to make him the highest paid DE in the league, not quite Albert money, but good $$$$. He's been in NC all his life so maybe he just wants to be the gray man in another city for a while. All I know is, money to make you the highest paid DE in the NFL at 29 is a great deal and he's stupid not to take it. He hasn't signed his tender so he's going no where fast. He hasn't been to camp yet. I'd expect him to start for the team and sign his tender before TC or the first game of the year. I'd also think if he were to wear another jersey the Panthers would want at least a first since we don't have one anymore. As far as demanded trades go, he's been very good about it. He doesn't want to hurt the team, just wants a trade, which is fair enough. The team doesn't want him to go since he was made defensive captain in 07 and a lot of the scheme is reliant on his performances. It's a 2 way street of suck right now.

Gay Ork Wang
05-02-2009, 03:25 AM
If he was being selfish he'd take the money and play like crap for the Panthers. Instead, he's telling them he doesn't want to be there so please trade me while you can still get value for me.

I just don't get how him saving them a ton of money and getting them extra picks is being selfish??
He cant be traded if he doesnt sign the tender....

Addict
05-02-2009, 07:06 AM
If he was being selfish he'd take the money and play like crap for the Panthers.

So forcing your team's hand, consuming massive amounts of cap space is an unselfish thing to do? Sure. Also: playing like crap would be the dumbest thing he can do right now. That'll cost him when the time comes to negiotiate a deal with ANY team. IIRC his production wasn't great two seasons ago either.

Instead, he's telling them he doesn't want to be there so please trade me while you can still get value for me.

I just don't get how him saving them a ton of money and getting them extra picks is being selfish??

How is he not costing the panthers any money? They still have to count the tender money against the cap, signed or not. It doesn't matter, that money needs to be there when (if ever) Peppers decides to sign the tender. He's not saving the panthers any money, my friend.

jsagan77
05-02-2009, 09:16 AM
So forcing your team's hand, consuming massive amounts of cap space is an unselfish thing to do? Sure. Also: playing like crap would be the dumbest thing he can do right now. That'll cost him when the time comes to negiotiate a deal with ANY team. IIRC his production wasn't great two seasons ago either.



How is he not costing the panthers any money? They still have to count the tender money against the cap, signed or not. It doesn't matter, that money needs to be there when (if ever) Peppers decides to sign the tender. He's not saving the panthers any money, my friend.


First of all, anyone who's trying to get traded isn't going to sign the tender until he's guaranteed to be traded. That's just not good negotiation skills. And either way he'll be taking up this money regardless unless he traded so that point is moot. Again--not costing them a dime extra...

Secondly, consuming massive amounts of cap space isn't his fault. He never asked for the franchise tag, did he? I believe he asked to be released and/or traded and the Panthers, being the selfish organization they are, failed to do either. The only reason the Panthers are in this mess is because they want to extract max value for Peppers, which no team wants to pay because they know HE wants to leave and will most likely be a FA next year.

Thirdly, playing like crap for a season wouldn't hurt Peppers value as a player next year, it will hurt his trade value, which again hurts the Panthers, not Peppers in the business side of this deal. He's being a good teammate by basically putting the ball in their court and letting them remove this huge cap hit by trading him for fair value. Either way he's gone next year so this is like a something for nothing type deal, plus you get a ton of cap space back.

Gay Ork Wang
05-02-2009, 10:33 AM
First of all, anyone who's trying to get traded isn't going to sign the tender until he's guaranteed to be traded. That's just not good negotiation skills. And either way he'll be taking up this money regardless unless he traded so that point is moot. Again--not costing them a dime extra...

Secondly, consuming massive amounts of cap space isn't his fault. He never asked for the franchise tag, did he? I believe he asked to be released and/or traded and the Panthers, being the selfish organization they are, failed to do either. The only reason the Panthers are in this mess is because they want to extract max value for Peppers, which no team wants to pay because they know HE wants to leave and will most likely be a FA next year.

Thirdly, playing like crap for a season wouldn't hurt Peppers value as a player next year, it will hurt his trade value, which again hurts the Panthers, not Peppers in the business side of this deal. He's being a good teammate by basically putting the ball in their court and letting them remove this huge cap hit by trading him for fair value. Either way he's gone next year so this is like a something for nothing type deal, plus you get a ton of cap space back.
this paragraph is full of lose

Addict
05-02-2009, 10:56 AM
First of all, anyone who's trying to get traded isn't going to sign the tender until he's guaranteed to be traded. That's just not good negotiation skills. And either way he'll be taking up this money regardless unless he traded so that point is moot. Again--not costing them a dime extra...

first of all your point was he as unselfish. also, Peppers' negotiation skill isn't all that great since last time I checked he's still sitting there with an unsigned tender and no real prospect of a trade. Also: your point was he was unselfish, I don't really know where this is coming from.
Also, this entire thing started because Peppers decided pretty much out of the blue that he wanted to play OLB in a 3-4.

Secondly, consuming massive amounts of cap space isn't his fault. He never asked for the franchise tag, did he? I believe he asked to be released and/or traded and the Panthers, being the selfish organization they are, failed to do either. The only reason the Panthers are in this mess is because they want to extract max value for Peppers, which no team wants to pay because they know HE wants to leave and will most likely be a FA next year.

Next year, he'll be thirty. He's a physical freak, but age is more than just a number in the NFL. The Panthers not realeasing him is a business decision, nothing more. He's a valuable asset to their team and you can't really fault them for trying everything in order to have him play in Carolina. I won't call the Panthers selfless, just like Peppers they are making business decisions. The only difference being that the Panthers organisation has been a lot more straight-forward about the whole deal.

Thirdly, playing like crap for a season wouldn't hurt Peppers value as a player next year, it will hurt his trade value, which again hurts the Panthers, not Peppers in the business side of this deal. He's being a good teammate by basically putting the ball in their court and letting them remove this huge cap hit by trading him for fair value. Either way he's gone next year so this is like a something for nothing type deal, plus you get a ton of cap space back.

He's not guaranteed gone next year, Panthers can pretty much tag him as often as they like. And another bad year would in fact be disastrous for both his value and his trade value. Don't forget it looked like he lost his mojo a season ago, until he notched 14.5 sacks. He had 2.5 sacks the year before. Another bad season (for any reason) would mean teams would have serious reservations about the amount of gas left in the tank.

Finally, you need to realize that this is a complicated issue, and there's no party on the right or wrong side, as I said, they're making business decisions. But portraying Peppers as an unselfish teammate-type guy is unrealistic, oversimplified and just plain wrong. You can agree with him, but that doesn't mean he's a saint.

Xenos
05-02-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm seeing quite a few misconceptions here......

For 1, until he signs the tender, Peppers is technically a free agent. It's just that if anyone signs him, they'd have to give up a first and a third. So he's free to negotiate contract terms with teams right now. If he finds a good deal, then the team can talk to the Panthers about trading for him (and trying to give up less than a 1st and a 3rd for all that money Peppers will want.) If they reach a deal, Peppers can sign his tender, be traded and then sign his new deal.

Or at least thats how I believe it all works. Something along those lines.

Now that the Niners have been brought up.....that would be intersting if they skipped the trade route, signed Peppers to a blockbuster deal and gave the Panthers own first rounder back plus a 3rd. That'd be a sick move for the 49ers....The Panthers would either have to pay a whole lot of money to match the deal and lock up Peppers, or let him walk for basically pennies.

But Peppers will likely want Hayneworth kind of money and like I mentioned above, I doubt any team gives that to him now.
Two first round picks actually. A first and third is for the highest tendered restricted free agent.

Addict
05-02-2009, 11:24 AM
Two first round picks actually. A first and third is for the highest tendered restricted free agent.

lol, I can't think of any player worth two first-round picks... maybe Manning/Brady...

bearsfan_51
05-02-2009, 11:28 AM
lol, I can't think of any player worth two first-round picks... maybe Manning/Brady...

Almost any franchise QB is worth two 1sts. (ie: Jay Cutler trade was obviously the best decision the Bears FO could have made)

I'm not sure about pass-rushers and offensive tackles. I would probably lean towards no, but if you're the Patriots and you have a shot at the Superbowl, it makes some sense. It's not like those 1sts are going to be very good anyway.

Addict
05-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Almost any franchise QB is worth two 1sts. (ie: Jay Cutler trade was obviously the best decision the Bears FO could have made)

I'm not sure about pass-rushers and offensive tackles. I would probably lean towards no, but if you're the Patriots and you have a shot at the Superbowl, it makes some sense. It's not like those 1sts are going to be very good anyway.

still a hefty price though.

farfromforgotten
05-02-2009, 03:35 PM
lol, I can't think of any player worth two first-round picks... maybe Manning/Brady...

Apparently the Redskins thought a couple years ago that Chad Johnson would be worth 2 1st rounders. Lucky for them that the Bengals were too ignorant to accept that offer. Or was this just a rumor?

Addict
05-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Apparently the Redskins thought a couple years ago that Chad Johnson would be worth 2 1st rounders. Lucky for them that the Bengals were too ignorant to accept that offer. Or was this just a rumor?

IDK, I believe both sides denied it. Then again, Redskins wouldn't want to admit their faillure and the Bengals would have angered a lot of fans for not taking that deal... So nobody knows. With any other team, I'd say "don't be rediculous, nobody would give up 2 firsts for a WR" but this is Snyder's team, so basically everything goes.

RealityCheck
05-02-2009, 07:53 PM
I can see the Niners giving that first rounder back to Carolina on this tarde.

sellsport
05-02-2009, 10:46 PM
I can see the Niners giving that first rounder back to Carolina on this tarde.

i argee with you

Brent
05-03-2009, 12:33 AM
I can see the Niners giving that first rounder back to Carolina on this tarde.
I cant. We havent even bothered to contact the Panthers about him. Yeah, just what a team building for the future needs to do, give a first round pick and a ****-ton of cash to a guy who's 29 and never played in the 3-4 before. Makes perfect sense.

BlindSite
05-03-2009, 12:40 AM
Nothing is going to happen with Peppers until you see the headline stating he's signed his tender.

comahan
05-03-2009, 05:09 AM
Peppers to Houston for Brian Moehler and cash.

jsagan77
05-03-2009, 12:30 PM
this paragraph is full of lose

Kind of like your life?

Gay Ork Wang
05-03-2009, 12:51 PM
Kind of like your life?
no more like your face

Chief49er
05-03-2009, 02:00 PM
I cant. We havent even bothered to contact the Panthers about him. Yeah, just what a team building for the future needs to do, give a first round pick and a ****-ton of cash to a guy who's 29 and never played in the 3-4 before. Makes perfect sense.

How do you know they haven't talked with the Panthers? Do you work in the office or something?

Addict
05-03-2009, 02:03 PM
no more like your face

OH SNAP... dang he got burned.

Gay Ork Wang
05-03-2009, 02:58 PM
How do you know they haven't talked with the Panthers? Do you work in the office or something?
they are not allowed to

Chief49er
05-03-2009, 03:43 PM
they are not allowed to

How are they not allowed to talk to the Panthers? What are you talking about?

fenikz
05-03-2009, 03:47 PM
How are they not allowed to talk to the Panthers? What are you talking about?


Until Julius Peppers signs his franchise tender other teams can not talk to the Panthers about trading for him

Chief49er
05-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Until Julius Peppers signs his franchise tender other teams can not talk to the Panthers about trading for him

Really??

I thought you couldnt talk to the players but talking to the team is fine.

Addict
05-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Really??

I thought you couldnt talk to the players but talking to the team is fine.

other way around... in fact I think player agent.

jsagan77
05-06-2009, 08:18 PM
no more like your face

You're name says it all...

Niners_2152
05-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Any news on if and when he is getting signed or traded?

If so, who makes the move. There is an article (purely speculation) that the 49ers would make sense in a trade for Peppers. What is the take from Panther fans and other fans of the NFL?

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/021930.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A


I don't want to give up a first and a third or even a first and have to pay 80, 90 or a hundred million for a guy who is 29 and would have to convert to LB. Especially since we have 2 firsts next year and there are some good pass rushers available.


edit: Went back and red through the thread and I basically said exactly what Brent said.

Gay Ork Wang
05-07-2009, 12:45 PM
You're name says it all...
good thing u have no idea what it means.

btw: how good is he in run support?

Addict
05-07-2009, 02:42 PM
You're name says it all...

don't talk about things you don't understand, don't try to insult people because of their username (and fail miserably) and most of all don't be such an idiot.

superman
05-07-2009, 02:54 PM
and use the right your. such a pet peeve.