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DoWnThEfiElD
05-04-2009, 05:50 PM
Might as well start now since we will be pick high again...

Russell Okung, Gerald McCoy..

Wouldn't mind seeing either of them in a Lions jersey...

WMD
05-04-2009, 05:54 PM
I say.. DE in Round 1, LT in Round 2. Carlos Dunlap is my guy. But there's so many 'great' prospects that could be available, I'd be happy with quite a few of them.

DoWnThEfiElD
05-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Next year appears to be fairly deep in some premium positions. Thats a main reason I'm glad we got our QB this year.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-04-2009, 06:09 PM
DE,DT or future LT we can't go wrong. I am just so glad we won't be wasting a pick in 2010 on a QB. We got our guy.

I think I would prefer McCoy,Suh over LT and DE at this point unless Fluellen suprises. A stud at DT makes our LBs even better. Watch Avril,White,Fluellen, and Backus closely this year. I know I will.

Prowler
05-04-2009, 09:23 PM
i'm all for a stud DT, DE, and/or LT. the DT market is so rediculously loaded next year.

Xiomera
05-04-2009, 10:04 PM
First round pick should be an OT or a DT.

I want Brandon Graham from Michigan.

Scotty D
05-04-2009, 10:57 PM
Can we just draft Oklahoma? Maybe if we go 0-16 again Goddell will let us.

My early short list next year no order

Cornerback
Mauling OG
Power back
SS
NT/UT
DE
LT

Definitely love the strength of the lines next year. Ernie Sim's future is going to be determined this season. I'm leaning towards trading him right now.

BTW does anyone else really like Lydon Murtha's potential? This dude is huge and I would stick him at RT if we didn't have Bubble Butt there. I really hope this kid can be groomed.

Iamcanadian
05-05-2009, 06:03 AM
Can we just draft Oklahoma? Maybe if we go 0-16 again Goddell will let us.

My early short list next year no order

Cornerback
Mauling OG
Power back
SS
NT/UT
DE
LT

Definitely love the strength of the lines next year. Ernie Sim's future is going to be determined this season. I'm leaning towards trading him right now.

BTW does anyone else really like Lydon Murtha's potential? This dude is huge and I would stick him at RT if we didn't have Bubble Butt there. I really hope this kid can be groomed.

If your looking for Murtha to develop, don't hold your breath. He has a great body but also a few loose screws in his head. At Nebraska, he preferred to ride the bench rather than do anything that might change his beautiful body so he could be a better football player. His body image was more important to him than football.

Addict
05-05-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm guessing we take the top lt, 80 million dollar investement to protect.

noondog
05-05-2009, 10:04 AM
I'd love to see Bulaga in a Lions Jersey, with Ciron Black as a possible alternative. If we go defense, I'd want McCoy.

WMD
05-05-2009, 02:14 PM
Damn you bastards. We did all the research this year.. You can get your LT in Round 2! Spend our high pick on the best Defensive player available.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-05-2009, 02:22 PM
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

Logan Mankins and Marcus McNeil seem to be the best free agents. Roos already resigned with the Titans and Snee may have already resigned with New York. It could have been O'Hara not sure.

2nd Round LT, 1st round Dline.

DETROIT BADBOY
05-06-2009, 09:31 AM
i think its safe to say we will have one of if not THE top overall pick again next year and with tebow,snead, mcCoy and bradford all coming out the top picks will have value so i would like us to drop down and get 2 first rounders and then use them on carlos dunlap then sergio kindle or maybe the best corner left (donovan warren)...right now next year is real deep in ol and we can get help in the 2nd round.

Xiomera
05-06-2009, 09:42 AM
i think its safe to say we will have one of if not THE top overall pick again next year and with tebow,snead, mcCoy and bradford all coming out the top picks will have value so i would like us to drop down and get 2 first rounders and then use them on carlos dunlap then sergio kindle or maybe the best corner left (donovan warren)...right now next year is real deep in ol and we can get help in the 2nd round.

I think the Lions win five games next year.

I'm predicting it now.

DETROIT BADBOY
05-06-2009, 09:46 AM
i think its safe to but them between 2 and 5 wins....but even if we win 3 games we could end up picking first

Xiomera
05-06-2009, 09:55 AM
i think its safe to but them between 2 and 5 wins....but even if we win 3 games we could end up picking first

Raiders will go winless this year.

WMD
05-06-2009, 10:09 AM
I don't think we'd be able to trade down and still get Dunlap. I think he's a Top 3 talent. Sergio Kindle is probably Top 15 at least.

As far as wins go.. I still say 3 or 4.

eeth
05-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Xio, is that the ref who took the redwings late 3rd period goal yesterday?

Prowler
05-06-2009, 05:27 PM
i'd like to shove his whistle down his throat.

SINCE1978
05-07-2009, 08:04 PM
I think a DE is key ... Dunlop, Selvie, Hardy. Yummy.
Also a LT and a DT ... Ciron Black and Boo Robinson are attractive at those spots in the 2nd. I also like a CB maybe in rd 3.

DE
LT
DT
would be awesome. Since we did not really address lineman with ... oh, our top 5 picks this year ;o) (lol)

ironman4579
05-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Before free agency, I was thinking that if we upgraded 9 positions (not with studs obviously, just upgrades), we could win 4 games, possibly 5. Basically, we did upgrade 9 positions:

FS
basically 3 CB positions
MLB, SLB
NT
TE
LG (i'm assuming Loper at this spot I guess)

So I'm saying 4 wins, with a shot at 5. Depending on where we're at, I'm with Xio in wanting Brandon Graham. I'd also like one of the DT's.

Hardy worries me a bit, as his soph year was far better than his junior year (although he was injured), and I think playing beside Jerry let him see alot of one on one's. Dunlap is nice, but I want to see him do it one more year. I'm very anti Selvie right now.

Xiomera
05-07-2009, 10:31 PM
Xio, is that the ref who took the redwings late 3rd period goal yesterday?

Yes sir, it is.

eeth
05-07-2009, 10:50 PM
That son of a...

Xiomera
05-07-2009, 10:51 PM
That son of a...

*****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Xiomera
05-07-2009, 10:55 PM
**** my life.

ironman4579
05-07-2009, 11:08 PM
**** my life.

Yay! Go Wings! Or Lions.......................

eeth
05-07-2009, 11:10 PM
No "and" lions? Well, i guess we have to wait to cheer for the lions

Prowler
05-08-2009, 10:44 AM
2-2 series. ducks aren't winning another game this season.

noondog
05-08-2009, 01:10 PM
5-6 wins...I think that our Lions will be decent this year...competitive anyways.

TitanHope
05-11-2009, 08:23 PM
I want you guys to go Eric Berry! I'll go buy an EB Lions jersey!

In one Draft, the Titans drafted their franchise LT Michael Roos in the 2nd RD, their franchise RT David Stewart in the 4th RD, and their swing OL Daniel Loper in the 5th RD. In a previous Draft, they did have to use a 1st RD pick to get their stud DT Albert Haynesworth.

So, if Schwartz wants to try to reflect that method, he could pass on the LT in the 1st RD - which would probably piss off all the people who wanted a LT in this Draft - in favor of a DT.

Addict
05-12-2009, 01:07 AM
I want you guys to go Eric Berry! I'll go buy an EB Lions jersey!

In one Draft, the Titans drafted their franchise LT Michael Roos in the 2nd RD, their franchise RT David Stewart in the 4th RD, and their swing OL Daniel Loper in the 5th RD. In a previous Draft, they did have to use a 1st RD pick to get their stud DT Albert Haynesworth.

So, if Schwartz wants to try to reflect that method, he could pass on the LT in the 1st RD - which would probably piss off all the people who wanted a LT in this Draft - in favor of a DT.

you're forgetting two things though:

1. The titans can draft (except for the 40 RB's in the first two days)
2. The Lions have so far shown little ability to draft.

cotts1
05-12-2009, 01:15 PM
I think Ciron Black will be the top rated LT in the draft when next year rolls around. I would go DE or LT in round 1. I tend to think it's easier to find a good DT in round 2 than a good LT. Dunlap, Ciron Black, or Berry/Mays. Nothing wrong with having two sweet safeties. Delmas and Berry/Mays would be siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.

detroit4life
05-13-2009, 04:02 PM
i think that if our staff tohught LT was a huge need that oher woulda been the pick at 20.

Addict
05-13-2009, 05:35 PM
i think that if our staff tohught LT was a huge need that oher woulda been the pick at 20.

BPA was pettigrew, Oher had some questions. Besides if the Stafford deal is constructed as they say it is he's cheap enough not to start this year, so they can fix it next year. Rookie LT's can play and play well, Rookie QB's are best with a clipboard.

Iamcanadian
05-13-2009, 11:58 PM
I think 4 wins is doable if Schwartz can be a HC which is still unproven at this point. I'm hoping for the best but doing it is another thing altogether.

On offense:
QB C with Culpepper starting with some improvement possible.
RB C+ Smith is solid but unspectacular
WR A although we still need a couple of more WR's to come through
OL C+ if we are serious about running the ball, the OL may do better than expected.
DE D+ just not much there
DT D+ not up to snuff just yet.
LB C better than last year but a long ways to go.
CB C+ certainly better than last year but may really struggle if we cannot mount a pass rush.
S B should be effective against the run, just not sure how well it does with such a weak DL vs the pass

We still have a long ways to go especially on defense. It will be very interesting to see how Schwartz's background as a DC translates to HCing and how much he can get out of that defense.

Xiomera
05-14-2009, 12:10 AM
I think 4 wins is doable if Schwartz can be a HC which is still unproven at this point. I'm hoping for the best but doing it is another thing altogether.

On offense:
QB C with Culpepper starting with some improvement possible.
RB C+ Smith is solid but unspectacular
WR A although we still need a couple of more WR's to come through
OL C+ if we are serious about running the ball, the OL may do better than expected.
DE D+ just not much there
DT D+ not up to snuff just yet.
LB C better than last year but a long ways to go.
CB C+ certainly better than last year but may really struggle if we cannot mount a pass rush.
S B should be effective against the run, just not sure how well it does with such a weak DL vs the pass

We still have a long ways to go especially on defense. It will be very interesting to see how Schwartz's background as a DC translates to HCing and how much he can get out of that defense.

I think you're a little down on our linebacking trio. We have reliable veterans and youth with some upside.

weasel
05-14-2009, 08:41 AM
I think the Lions are good enough to be the first team picking in the NFC North. They might win 6 games and depending on how the rest of the league does they may still be selecting from 5th-9th overall.
The best players available for improving the defense are Suh, McCoy, Hardy, Mays, Berry, Spikes and Dunlap.
Suh and McCoy are stud DT's. I do not like Mount Cody.
Hardy and Dunlap are premier DE's.
Mays may be Urlacher reborn or he may be the prototype strong safety.
E. Berry is a great DB wherever you play him.
Spikes may fall far enough to be a quality addition in the middle of the round. Herzlich will be there, too. So will Jerry Hughes and a CB or two.

weasel
05-14-2009, 08:43 AM
Of course Okung will be available and a stable of good RB's, too.

TitanHope
05-14-2009, 05:59 PM
you're forgetting two things though:

1. The titans can draft (except for the 40 RB's in the first two days)
2. The Lions have so far shown little ability to draft.

Blast! Don't make me make a WR joke! :D

The Titans haven't really been an amazing Drafting team, to be honest. They haven't done poorly, but they've been relatively hit or miss. In actuality, it's been the ability to let bigger name FA's leave and replacing them, and bringing in under the radar players who fit the scheme. I think Schwartz can help bring that ability to the Lions, and I think that was demonstrated by bringing in guys like Larry Foote, Grady Jackson, Daniel Loper, Eric King, and trading for guys like Anthony Henry and Julian Peterson.

ironman4579
05-14-2009, 09:05 PM
I think the Lions are good enough to be the first team picking in the NFC North. They might win 6 games and depending on how the rest of the league does they may still be selecting from 5th-9th overall.
The best players available for improving the defense are Suh, McCoy, Hardy, Mays, Berry, Spikes and Dunlap.
Suh and McCoy are stud DT's. I do not like Mount Cody.
Hardy and Dunlap are premier DE's.
Mays may be Urlacher reborn or he may be the prototype strong safety.
E. Berry is a great DB wherever you play him.
Spikes may fall far enough to be a quality addition in the middle of the round. Herzlich will be there, too. So will Jerry Hughes and a CB or two.

He has cancer, so I highly doubt that.

Iamcanadian
05-15-2009, 10:09 AM
I think you're a little down on our linebacking trio. We have reliable veterans and youth with some upside.

As long as the DL stinks, the LB's will be extremely limited in what they can do. They aren't going to be getting a whole lot of help and I don't think they are good enough to compensate.

Addict
05-15-2009, 01:56 PM
He has cancer, so I highly doubt that.

7th round flyer?

WMD
05-16-2009, 03:16 AM
7th round flyer?
He's probably done with football completely.

Addict
05-16-2009, 06:24 AM
He's probably done with football completely.

well that sucks... let's hope for his sake he survives this.

Newbs24
05-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Everson Griffen or Eric Berry for me. Ev is going to have a monster year for the Trojans. Eric Berry would have been a top 10 pick had he come out last year. He is an Ed Reed type game changer but can actually tackle.

weasel
05-17-2009, 07:22 AM
There is a lot to like about next year's draft. I would draft either Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh with first options on Carlos Dunlap, Greg Hardy and Everson Griffen.
Secondly, I would draft Spikes, Lindley, Haden, Mays or Eric Berry.
Lastly, Russell Okung, Trent Williams and Bryan Bulaga would garner LT attention. And, if there were a running back who just demanded he be drafted, like Aikman's Emmitt Smith well, I would have to think about it.

Addict
05-17-2009, 02:56 PM
There is a lot to like about next year's draft. I would draft either Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh with first options on Carlos Dunlap, Greg Hardy and Everson Griffen.
Secondly, I would draft Spikes, Lindley, Haden, Mays or Eric Berry.
Lastly, Russell Okung, Trent Williams and Bryan Bulaga would garner LT attention. And, if there were a running back who just demanded he be drafted, like Aikman's Emmitt Smith well, I would have to think about it.

I don't think RB is worth considering for the lions at this point. Smith is servicable, maybe not superb, but decent enough. We have massive needs at the lines, DE, DT, LT... any of those three positions should be the pick. Berry and Mays are fantastic talents, but I think safety is a spot where we have Bullocks, Alexander and now Delmas, so at least there is something there. Not to say that Mays and Berry wouldn't be a massive upgrade, but they would be luxury picks.
If we manage to land a top OT or DE next year (maybe a DT, who knows) we'd help ourselves a lot more than with a RB or safety. We need a corner too, but since we'll be picking in the top 5 again most likely I don't think we'll go that route.

Prowler
05-17-2009, 04:26 PM
i want any of the defensive monster playmakers. oline help can come later.

Addict
05-17-2009, 04:43 PM
i want any of the defensive monster playmakers. oline help can come later.

yeah screw the #1 overall QB who has an 80 million dollar deal!

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-17-2009, 04:56 PM
Yes I think we need a Dline monster in 2010 and we're set up nicely to get one based on how the class looks. Stupid Millen/Marinelli trading away Shaun Rogers. I know he wasn't happy and unmotivated but still guy was a difference maker, and in hindsight losing him really caused 0-16 to happen. DT or DE in 2010 unless Fluellen,Avril and Sammie Lee Hill peform some sort of uber suprise this year on the field. Probably 2 of them would have to suprise in order to stay away from the Dline.

Oline hopefully is a deep class next year. I think right now it seems to be deep so hope it stays that way and a tackle falls into Round 2.

Mays and Berry are incredible talents. But safety in the top 5 I don't know how much that really helps us. But if our corners are lacking two stud safeites assuming Delmas is what he's cracked up to be would help on the back end. Bullocks and Alexander are both on the last years of their deals this year. So its do or die time for them. I like Bullocks in run support, he needs to work on his coverage. And Alexanders injury hurt him. Stupid 2nd Round Millen curse.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-17-2009, 05:03 PM
yeah screw the #1 overall QB who has an 80 million dollar deal!

He's not screwed if the Oline class is deep. Plus free agency is an option.
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

Marcus McNeil and Logan Mankins might help if available.

Addict
05-17-2009, 05:07 PM
He's not screwed if the Oline class is deep. Plus free agency is an option.
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=OL&y=2010

Marcus McNeil and Logan Mankins might help if available.

come on man, be realistic. McNeill and Mankins come from two top teams in the AFC. Do you really think they're going to sign with a NFC bottom dweller? Detroit needs to get its act together through the draft before any free agent of a certain stature is going to want to come here.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-17-2009, 05:34 PM
come on man, be realistic. McNeill and Mankins come from two top teams in the AFC. Do you really think they're going to sign with a NFC bottom dweller? Detroit needs to get its act together through the draft before any free agent of a certain stature is going to want to come here.

Depends how much money we offer compared to what others offer. I guess we'll never get a big name free agent ever again. Foote came from a top team, of course he's from this area though. San Diego is not a top team. I could see McNeil coming here. Mankins depends how much money he wants compared to how much winners/New England offers him. He seems to be a guy more about winning but we'll see what the Lions look like this year. If they are competive and improve as the year goes on, someone will come here. How did we convince any free agent to come here this year.
If no free agency, a Round 2 tackle can be successfull. Schwartz knows this with Roos. Most of the playoff teams didn't have a 1st round tackle and Backus is fine for 2009 and possibly 2010 depending how healthy he stays. I think I'd actually prefer the veteran tackle than a rookie tackle with Stafford in 2010.

Addict
05-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Depends how much money we offer compared to what others offer. I guess we'll never get a big name free agent ever again. Foote came from a top team, of course he's from this area though. San Diego is not a top team. I could see McNeil coming here. Mankins depends how much money he wants compared to how much winners/New England offers him. He seems to be a guy more about winning but we'll see what the Lions look like this year. If they are competive and improve as the year goes on, someone will come here. How did we convince any free agent to come here this year.
If no free agency, a Round 2 tackle can be successfull. Schwartz knows this with Roos. Most of the playoff teams didn't have a 1st round tackle and Backus is fine for 2009 and possibly 2010 depending how healthy he stays. I think I'd actually prefer the veteran tackle than a rookie tackle with Stafford in 2010.

I'm sorry I must have missed all the big-name free agents we got to come in this year... like... ummm, who?
The thing is yes we can shell out money, but so can every other team in the NFL. The Lions don't win. Haven't for almost 5 decades. Unless there's little to no interest for other teams or Detroit REALLY showers you in benjamins you'll think twice before joining the Lions. Like you said, these guys are competitors, so they'll want to compete. Foote came here because he's from here, it's much like LeCharles Bentley coming to Cleveland (it didn't work out, but that's a different story).
Every year, it seems we have these great plans of signing this guy and then this guy, then we can draft our mancrushes and be competitive. The only problem is we never sign anyone save a few scrubs and veterans who either are on the decline or already have declined. Do you really think the FO, ever under Millen, didn't go after the guys the fans wanted? I think they did, but to no avail.

The NFL might be a business. But you can't deny that these players are people too. People want a good salary, but they also want to enjoy their work. Even if it's just work for them, they'll want to enjoy it as much as they can, and nobody enjoys losing (save a few sadomasochistic people, but that's beside the point). So any time a player needs to decide between us and a different team, they'll lean towards the other...simply because they'll want to win, compete and not be stuck on a team that went 0-16 and has been a complete trainwreck since before they were born.
Signing big-name free agents is something that just isn't going to happen as long as this team doesn't show that it can perform at least decently. What we need to get we need to get through the draft. We need to go from abysmal to bad and all the way to good, all using the draft. Then we can go from good to great with free agency. Not the other way around.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-17-2009, 06:41 PM
I'm sorry I must have missed all the big-name free agents we got to come in this year... like... ummm, who?
The thing is yes we can shell out money, but so can every other team in the NFL. The Lions don't win. Haven't for almost 5 decades. Unless there's little to no interest for other teams or Detroit REALLY showers you in benjamins you'll think twice before joining the Lions. Like you said, these guys are competitors, so they'll want to compete. Foote came here because he's from here, it's much like LeCharles Bentley coming to Cleveland (it didn't work out, but that's a different story).
Every year, it seems we have these great plans of signing this guy and then this guy, then we can draft our mancrushes and be competitive. The only problem is we never sign anyone save a few scrubs and veterans who either are on the decline or already have declined. Do you really think the FO, ever under Millen, didn't go after the guys the fans wanted? I think they did, but to no avail.

The NFL might be a business. But you can't deny that these players are people too. People want a good salary, but they also want to enjoy their work. Even if it's just work for them, they'll want to enjoy it as much as they can, and nobody enjoys losing (save a few sadomasochistic people, but that's beside the point). So any time a player needs to decide between us and a different team, they'll lean towards the other...simply because they'll want to win, compete and not be stuck on a team that went 0-16 and has been a complete trainwreck since before they were born.
Signing big-name free agents is something that just isn't going to happen as long as this team doesn't show that it can perform at least decently. What we need to get we need to get through the draft. We need to go from abysmal to bad and all the way to good, all using the draft. Then we can go from good to great with free agency. Not the other way around.

You underestimate the egos of these players. They want to be paid the most or very high salaires and they won't settle for less. Which is why people get paid more and more every year. I agree we need to build through the draft, but if we offer McNeil a boat load of money with this new coaching staff, I think we have a chance to get him if we feel he upgrades the LT position that much. Some players are leaving their teams for money. If New England low balls Mankins like they tend to do, we'll have a chance there. Good teams will have to be willing to pony up the dough which some of them are not and they must have a large need at LT or LG, which most of the good teams do not. So that only leaves the losing teams who we have to contend with for an LT or LG.

Money is how we got Bly, its how we got Woody after 2 and 3 years of losing. Its a new regime so the past failures of this teams players do forget about. The guys we added this year don't care about 0-16. Its a new story and they think they can make a difference(some can) and they didn't play for the Lions last year. Plus again they have egos so they think they can actually make the difference. Same goes with coaches(some can).

How did Arizona get Edge,Saints get Brees before they got good,Seattle get Housh on their decline.

Plus Oline class is deep. If we get an LT or stud G in Round 2 next year I won't complain. This defense needs a ton of work, especially the Dline. Oline is more dependent than the Round they are picked. With a good Qb, the QB makes the Oline better IMO. Plus there is blocking tight end aid of Pettigrew, and 4 other pieces to the Oline puzzle(one solved in Gosder). We'll find out about the interior more this year with Peterman resigned,Loper and Raiola healthy.

weasel
05-18-2009, 07:15 AM
I hope we get Greg Hardy or Carlos Dunlap or Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh or Russell Okung or Everson Griffen or Taylor Mays or ... You seem to get the idea.

weasel
05-18-2009, 07:16 AM
I am a trenches guy when all is said and done.

Addict
05-18-2009, 07:23 AM
I hope we get Greg Hardy or Carlos Dunlap or Gerald McCoy or Ndamokung Suh or Russell Okung or Everson Griffen or Taylor Mays or ... You seem to get the idea.

I am a trenches guy when all is said and done.

you should try the edit button sometime... it's awesome.

weasel
05-19-2009, 11:57 AM
What do I need to edit? Is there a mistake? Was there a grammatical or spelling error? Is there a factual error? What exactly needs to be edited, Addict.

Iamcanadian
05-19-2009, 01:35 PM
IMO, signing even top FA's is a slippery slop. Teams that are winners think long and hard about which FA to release and few really good ones get let loose unless the top team feels replacing them isn't as tough as the player's egos may feel.
The risk in signing a top FA is immense, they may have played real well because they knew it was their opportunity to get a big contract and they don't play nearly as well once that incentive is removed.
Sometimes the best FA's come from financially strapped teams like Buffalo who simply cannot afford to retain their top guys, not from the top teams who release players because they know finding an adequate replacement for less money isn't as hard as people think.
The Yankees in baseball shelled out huge, immense sums to both their top FA's Teixeira and A.J. Burnett. Teixeira is batting .239 and Burnett has 2 wins and a 5.02 ERA. FA's usually don't do well their first year after signing for whatever reason. Sometimes they rebound in year 2 but many times they never approach what they previously accomplished after signing with another team.
The other point about FA's is that a team like Detroit must overpay for any chance at getting the top guys. Players want a big pay day first but all things being equal, they will sign with the team that has a real chance at competing and right now that isn't Detroit. So to sign them, we must offer more money than the others are willing to pay, and that carries a lot of dangers on a rebuilding team that needs cap space to maneuver.
We are far better off establishing a winning team, then going after top FA's to fill the gaps in the teams weaknesses than trying to sign them now and just spending money haphazardly. I just don't think signing FA's is the correct course to take for any losing team. Far better to approach FA from a position of strength where players actually want to sign with you because you have real potential to win, then you have a far better shot at FA's who place a premium on winning over just money.

Prowler
05-19-2009, 02:41 PM
What do I need to edit? Is there a mistake? Was there a grammatical or spelling error? Is there a factual error? What exactly needs to be edited, Addict.

back to back posts within 1 minute of posting. saves from inflating post count, which happens enough in gameday threads.

Addict
05-19-2009, 02:45 PM
back to back posts within 1 minute of posting. saves from inflating post count, which happens enough in gameday threads.

pretty much this. If your own (short) post is the last in the thread and you still want to say something extra just edit it in... otherwise it's just filling.

weasel
05-22-2009, 07:26 AM
I am not worried about my post count.

Prowler
05-22-2009, 10:46 AM
we really need some new draft information.

Addict
05-22-2009, 02:11 PM
we really need some new draft information.

how do you mean?

also Weasel, I was referring more to the fact that it just looks silly. Your post count and how much you value it isn't really my concern, I could care less.

Prowler
05-22-2009, 05:13 PM
there's too big of a delay in the action right now. there needs to be some kinda college all star drills or something. i'm also looking forward to the site relaunch.

Addict
05-24-2009, 06:45 AM
there's too big of a delay in the action right now. there needs to be some kinda college all star drills or something. i'm also looking forward to the site relaunch.

Yeah it's kind of slow at this point. But that's good. If it were all action the boards would get too crowded... that would totally block my mojo, if you know what I mean ;)

Iamcanadian
05-24-2009, 11:27 AM
You underestimate the egos of these players. They want to be paid the most or very high salaires and they won't settle for less. Which is why people get paid more and more every year. I agree we need to build through the draft, but if we offer McNeil a boat load of money with this new coaching staff, I think we have a chance to get him if we feel he upgrades the LT position that much. Some players are leaving their teams for money. If New England low balls Mankins like they tend to do, we'll have a chance there. Good teams will have to be willing to pony up the dough which some of them are not and they must have a large need at LT or LG, which most of the good teams do not. So that only leaves the losing teams who we have to contend with for an LT or LG.

Money is how we got Bly, its how we got Woody after 2 and 3 years of losing. Its a new regime so the past failures of this teams players do forget about. The guys we added this year don't care about 0-16. Its a new story and they think they can make a difference(some can) and they didn't play for the Lions last year. Plus again they have egos so they think they can actually make the difference. Same goes with coaches(some can).

How did Arizona get Edge,Saints get Brees before they got good,Seattle get Housh on their decline.

Plus Oline class is deep. If we get an LT or stud G in Round 2 next year I won't complain. This defense needs a ton of work, especially the Dline. Oline is more dependent than the Round they are picked. With a good Qb, the QB makes the Oline better IMO. Plus there is blocking tight end aid of Pettigrew, and 4 other pieces to the Oline puzzle(one solved in Gosder). We'll find out about the interior more this year with Peterman resigned,Loper and Raiola healthy.

There is a reason McNeil slipped to round 2 in the draft. He has a narrowing of his spinal column which means his career could be very short. Besides if his spinal cord isn't a problem, he'll never be a FA. Solid LT's are never allowed to become FA's, they are always franchised or traded before that ever happens. If you want a stud LT, you have to get him in the draft.
Teams like NE or Pittsburgh or even the Colts will release starters if they ask for too much money, they know that most players are parts of a whole unless they are true impact players, and can be easily replaced by cheaper FA's who don't come from championship teams but have just as much ability as the player they are releasing. Overpaying players who were just parts of the whole with a ridiculous amount of money is non productive if you ask me unless your signee can offer real leadership perhaps.
NE can get veterans to sign with them as FA's because they offer a shot at a SB ring, not all FA's are looking just for top dollars, many want a shot at a ring because that is their life long goal as well and right now these types won't sign with Detroit. Signing big name FA's has rarely produced a champion in the NFL, hell, it isn't doing much for the Yankees anymore either. The only thing that works in the NFL is building through the draft and when you are close, filling the few remaining weaknesses with solid FA's. This is the formula we need to follow IMO.

IndyColtScout
05-24-2009, 10:01 PM
I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. The Lions should sign Vincent Jackson in 2010 when he becomes a FA. You guys would have a sick offense and that would help Stafford out a lot having two huge WRs and a huge TE.

WMD
05-24-2009, 10:14 PM
We should go DE with the Round 1 and then maybe trade back up into Round 1 for an OT. Assuming we have a high round 2 pick, and assuming the picks are going for cheap, Round 2 + Round 4 could get us somewhere in the 20's..

detroit4life
05-25-2009, 12:46 AM
lets see how backus plays before we do anything but regardless i think we need to go defense in round 1 next year

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-25-2009, 11:05 AM
I think we need a future LT regardless of how well Backus plays. He definitley is good for 2009 but 2010 is iffy for him given his age.

I agree McNeil might not hit free agency since LT is important(depending on who else the Chargers have to sign, Merriman for instance) and Logan Mankins is more than just a part of a whole in New Engalnd. Mankins is a very good left guard. Draft is obviously the key, but if you can get a good player for the Oline in free agency, the Lions should do everything possible to do that because we need good players for the future. FA made Minnesotas Oline great through free agency with Hutch(most of their team with Winfield,Pat Williams,Jared Allen,Leber). Titans Oline got much better with Mawae and Jake Scott. Jets Oline got much better with Faneca who went to New York after a poor year in New York. So its not all building through the draft, one good FA that actually pans out(thats the key actually panning out which I think Mankins would) would be well worth the money. Players want both a chance of winning and money, but many times they feel they can be the difference. If the Lions show improvement to like 6 games this year, then players defintiely would see us heading in the right direction with this new staff. Therefore, I could see Mankins/McNeil wanting to sign here. Some players want money, some only want to win, some want a combo of both, for instance Jason Brown wanted money. Plus the good teams are usually more set on the Oline already, so the market is limited to poor teams. So the want to win argument is limited because only poor teams needing talent badly go for them.

Prowler
05-25-2009, 12:06 PM
i love vincent jackson and have no idea how san diego could possibly let him walk.

lets draft our line talent instead of 30 year old or near 30 year old vets.

detroit4life
05-25-2009, 01:54 PM
the reason i dont think we will draft OT in round one next year is because we passed on oher. If we didnt think backus could get the job done Oher should have been the obvious pick.

If there is a good OT in round 2 then we should take him and actually try to develop someone on our oline for once.

TheDoctor8
05-26-2009, 03:04 PM
I just had a random thought and wanted to share it. The Lions should sign Vincent Jackson in 2010 when he becomes a FA. You guys would have a sick offense and that would help Stafford out a lot having two huge WRs and a huge TE.

We had THREE huge recievers on the same team. (Well Chuck wasn't that big.) That didn't work, I honestly believe that it is better to have one great receiver and two or three other complimentary receivers. Just not enough balls to go around it seems like. There have been cases were it has worked. Like Indy, Arizona, the Steelers in the 70's but that seems to be about it.

SINCE1978
05-28-2009, 09:14 PM
If we can steal a few games this year and win another 3 or 4 out right and rack up maybe 6 or 7 wins (this is hypothetical b/c I think they are a 3-4 win team next year) it makes our team that much more appealing to guys like McNeal & Mankins coming from power houses like San Diego & New England. I know money talks but to most pro athletes the winning and competing is key. Combine that with a young and hungry up and coming coach, a studly young QB and improved defense makes Detroit more appealing which only helps draw FA's.
With that said I think building the Oline is a draft thing .... not a FA thing. Get a CB or NT in FA not Olineman.

A LT should be a top target next year while Backus has some gas in the tank to push the kid for the #1 spot. Stafford will lobby for that for sure! A DT/DE is a close #2 ...

And for the record, those of you who are thinking Philly trading for Peters (LT) and signing Andrews (G) as an example of Olineman working out for a team ... the Reid/McNabb lead Eagles window is closing with this nucleus to push for the Super Bowl. The Lions are FAAAAR from that conversation. Draft solid up front next year, we have a 5-8 year run after that to compete for the NFC North. (again hypothetical)

Prowler
05-29-2009, 11:44 AM
judging by jonathan scott's recent comments, our oline should be vastly improved with our new coaching staff.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090525/SPORTS01/90525037/0/SPORTS01

In Detroit, the life of a lineman was maddening. Scott said the communication breakdowns between the offensive coordinator and his offensive line coach ran rampant. One told him to step left on a play, the other said to step right.

“So which one do I do?” Scott said. “If I don’t it the offensive line way, I won’t be able to play. If I don’t do it the offensive coordinator’s way then I’ll never get on the field. There were always situations like that.”

Chaotic fragmentation. The shoddy separation of powers triggered on-field breakdowns. Scott said the linemen became “chickens with their heads cut off.” Who was supposed to block where was a play-to-play mystery.

ironman4579
05-29-2009, 06:05 PM
judging by jonathan scott's recent comments, our oline should be vastly improved with our new coaching staff.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090525/SPORTS01/90525037/0/SPORTS01

Why does that not surprise me? Looks like RodMar's discipline and "working as a team" shtick only applied to players.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-29-2009, 06:15 PM
Yep very true with Coletto and Martz. They were never on the same page. Last year it was probably more one united voice, but there was just so many problems, more than talent.

SINCE1978
05-30-2009, 09:41 PM
clearly they believed in the invisible. Oh .. .and forgot to pound the rock. LOL!

tblain1
06-01-2009, 01:55 PM
Yep very true with Coletto and Martz. They were never on the same page. Last year it was probably more one united voice, but there was just so many problems, more than talent.

The weakest united voice since Band Aid's "Don't They Know It's Christmas"

Maybe Next Year Millen2
06-01-2009, 05:55 PM
The weakest united voice since Band Aid's "Don't They Know It's Christmas"

What everybody was thinking.

Colletto: Block to the left so we can run for 2 yards

Martz: Block to the right for 20 minutes so we can run a precise route

Marinelli: Pound the rock. I miss Warren Sapp.

Joe Barry: I'm nailing Rod's daughter with my Rod. Although my Rod is as soft as this defense.

Millen from PA: Dur Dur Dur Dur, Wide Receiver, the letter M.

Ford: This team needs a bailout worse than my company.

Jon Kitna: Save me Jesus. Save me from the Dline Devil.

Roy Williams: Hook em horns, I'm gonna be the new TO.

Joe Cullen: Did I go Wendy's twice yesterday? Where are my pants?

Shaun Rogers: Hey hey hey (Fat Albert). Then gets tired and takes a nap. Yet we miss him greatly.

Paris Lenon: I have a girls name so that must be why I play like one.

Drew Stanton: Wow this is embarassing. Oops got hurt again drinking some water.

Xiomera
06-02-2009, 10:16 PM
http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2009/06/fox_sports_detroit_lions_had_n.html

tblain1
06-03-2009, 11:01 AM
http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2009/06/fox_sports_detroit_lions_had_n.html

Well Lions fans we are at out highest peak of the season: Post draft euphoria. As we all know, its downhill from here. See you at 4-12.

WMD
06-03-2009, 03:36 PM
Eh, having a good draft doesn't mean you'll be good right away. I'm expecting us to have a 2-5 win season this year. We should start picking up after this season though.. hopefully.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
06-03-2009, 04:33 PM
Eh, having a good draft doesn't mean you'll be good right away. I'm expecting us to have a 2-5 win season this year. We should start picking up after this season though.. hopefully.

I agree but more 4-6 win range. 2 wins isn't enough improvement and I like the schedule.

As for the draft rookies are rookies. Stafford is looking good so far in shorts but you know he'll be taking his rookie lumps whenever he starts playing. QB is just so tough without the perfect situation early. Although the cupboard isn't bare for Stafford IMO. All I expect is progression from him, so cautious optimism for Stafford. I think Pettigrew and Delmas can come in and play fairly well though right away. TE and Safety are two positions where you can have earlier success. Same with Derrick Williams for KR/PR. Don't expect much from Sammie Lee and Levy is a backup now.

However, we did add some very solid ready to play players. Peterson,Foote,Buchanon,Grady Jackson,Bryant Johnson and Maurice Morris all help right away and the solid rookies from last year got another year under their belt.

noondog
06-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Is it just me or has Scott Wright given up on analyzing and grading out the balance of the 2009 draft? I've been waiting WEEKS to read the Lions review.

DoWnThEfiElD
06-30-2009, 01:18 PM
If we are top 5, I want our pick to come from the state of Oklahoma. Either Okung or McCoy.

SINCE1978
07-07-2009, 09:40 PM
Is it just me or has Scott Wright given up on analyzing and grading out the balance of the 2009 draft? I've been waiting WEEKS to read the Lions review.

I guess he was on vacation (lol)
B+ is solid. Although I HATE letter grades for drafts.
I have seen plenty of high grades in the past though for Matty Mess Up's handy work all praise coming before they hit the field ... so this fan is still in "wait and see" mode with this group.

Plenty optimistic about the overhaul in talent though. Lord did they need it. Still do actually (everywhere but WR/TE, QB & LB)

SINCE1978
07-29-2009, 08:47 PM
VERY early YouTube browsing for 2010 draft candidates for your Detroit Lions ... but the love is already there from this fan for one Boo Robinson, DT Wake Forest! I also like the long athleticism and strength from OT Charles Brown out at USC. Of course I also see future Pro Bowls awaiting Mr. Carlos Dunlap, DE at Florida ... kid is sick.

I feel DE, LT, DT & CB are the focus for 2010 most likely in that order for me.

I'll thow it out there to munch on ... Detroit would rock if 2010 went:
#1 DE Carlos Dunlap, Florida
#2 LT Charles Brown, USC
#3 DT Boo Robinson, Wake Forest
#4 CB best available ... Thurmond Oregon/Robinson FSU/Warren Mich/Norton Ark

Haha, I can't believe it's not even August and I threw it out there for 2010. Sad note however, if Dunlap is available we are a shoe in for a top 5 pick ;o(

Prowler
07-30-2009, 11:03 AM
love all of those. i would like dunlap then terrance cody provided backus is serviceable and they have good years. lets fix that d-line that's been killing us. we had the fewest amount of pass attempts against us in the league last year because of our weak run defense.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
07-30-2009, 01:23 PM
Yep I think DT is top priority unless Fluellen AND Sammie Lee Hill really suprise people. DE rides on Avril which will be answered this year, White is ok and plus we have Peterson to blitz. A base DE which is what we really need can be found in later rounds. So I'd take DT before DE. One young DT working out would be nice though. Gerald McCoy would look great in a Lions uni, so would Suh. Very good DT and LT class next year, glad we didn't take Peria Jerry or Jason Smith. But there is alot of football to be played before we need to think about draft and the pesky 16 game season of the Lions. So excited for the season, any wins even like 4 will be tremendous.

SINCE1978
07-30-2009, 05:40 PM
I agree, no matter how you slice it .... D line depth in the NFL is HUGE.

WMD
07-30-2009, 09:14 PM
Yeah, right now I'm hoping we go DE in Round 1. I think we'll have a Top 5 pick, so hopefully Dunlap is there for us. Unfortunately we could be on Trade Down watch because of Stafford's huge ass contract.

Xiomera
07-30-2009, 10:21 PM
Yeah, right now I'm hoping we go DE in Round 1. I think we'll have a Top 5 pick, so hopefully Dunlap is there for us. Unfortunately we could be on Trade Down watch because of Stafford's huge ass contract.

Brandon Graham FTW!

ironman4579
08-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Brandon Graham FTW!

I would absolutely prefer Graham over Dunlap. Dunlap is getting hyped because of his size. But so was Calais Campbell. And that's who he reminds me of at this point. Let's see if he continues to improve in his junior year or falls off like Campbell did before we decide we want to spend a top 5 pick on a guy that's only shown something for one season.

SINCE1978
08-02-2009, 10:19 AM
I would absolutely prefer Graham over Dunlap. Dunlap is getting hyped because of his size. But so was Calais Campbell. And that's who he reminds me of at this point. Let's see if he continues to improve in his junior year or falls off like Campbell did before we decide we want to spend a top 5 pick on a guy that's only shown something for one season.

Brandon Graham is a very good pass rushing DE but he was not even rated the best pre-season defensive player in the Big 10 at the meetings in Chicago last week. Greg Jones MSU LB was the pick for that award? Again, I like BG and if he could be there for a 2nd rd pick if we went DT or LT #1 I would be happy. But right now I do not think he is anywhere near a top 5 pick but that just my opinion.

ironman4579
08-02-2009, 10:22 AM
Brandon Graham is a very good pass rushing DE but he was not even rated the best pre-season defensive player in the Big 10 at the meetings in Chicago last week. Greg Jones MSU LB was the pick for that award? Again, I like BG and if he could be there for a 2nd rd pick if we went DT or LT #1 I would be happy. But right now I do not think he is anywhere near a top 5 pick but that just my opinion.

Greg Jones is a beast. But if you think that Michigan having a completely crap season last year didn't have something to do with that, you're out of your mind. To be quite honest, if I'm talking about a top 5 pick, which it'll likely be, I'd probably take Greg Hardy if we're taking a DE, as much as I like Graham, at least right now. My overall point is that I'm not a big fan of Dunlap, and I'd take Graham over him any day at this point.

5 Fingers of Death
08-16-2009, 09:52 AM
McCoy probably will go #1. I think it's easier to get a offensive tackle in the second round but you can't pass on a Carlos Dunlap DE from FL in the first round.

Prowler
08-17-2009, 06:08 PM
i'd say mccoy will go about where flacco went. there isn't a huge need for QBs anymore and the separation between talent isn't large enough to warrant passing on the top linemen.

SINCE1978
08-17-2009, 08:23 PM
I would say an impact defender up front is the #1 item on the Lions shopping list (whether in FA or in the draft) I.E. Dunlap, McCoy, Hardy, Selvie etc.
So with that said, I would look to grab an athletic, long armed/quick footed yet strong LT with the #2 pick. (who wouldn't?) Charles Brown LT @ USC is posed to have a monster year and will be on national TV almost every game. Look for him to climb up draft boards. Selvish Capers LT @ WVU is another good looking athlete we could snag in the 2nd. A former TE who is very fast and lean but would be of the Jason Williams or William Beatty mold from the 2009 draft. A perfect combo for opposite Gosder "the mauler" Cherilus ;o)

detroit4life
08-20-2009, 01:57 PM
if avril plays to his potential then i think McCoy has to be the pick. but LT is a huge need as well

SINCE1978
08-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Valenti on 97.1 the ticket today, said he could argue (and I tend to agree) the Leo's could go Dline with their first 3 picks and with a FA pick-up next year and still not have all the holes filled up front on D. By that he obviously means the 6-8 solid Dlineman it takes t obe a top 10 run stuffing defense i.e. NY Giants, Steelers, Patriots, etc. Funny how those teams are play-off contenders/champions ... Anyway, should be a sold year for DE's & DT's ... juicy!!! ;o)

Prowler
08-28-2009, 09:13 PM
i could live with a colts type of draft where we pick up a high impact skill player but follow with back to back dlinemen. but only if that player was like a corner or somebody with rediculous talent like a calvin johnson. that being said....i want DE, DT, and OL and nothing but that in rounds 1-7.

DoWnThEfiElD
08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
Sadly our secondary needs to be addressed. They are terrible. Honestly if we go BPA again all the way through I won't be disappointed.

SINCE1978
08-31-2009, 07:51 PM
Sadly enough, in addition to Dline & secondary our WR core needs an upgrade too in 2010. Megatron & Pettigrew are SOLID. However, Derrick Williams is unproven so far in the slot and Northcutt & B. Johnson may only be 1 year fill-in guys that are here to showcase their talents and skate out of town. We seem to have a WR epidemic. Weird.

Christopher Hitchens
09-08-2009, 02:27 PM
The Lions obviously need a kicker. Jason Hanson is obviously on his way out. We should try to tpick one up in the first or second round. Kickers usually score the most points on the team so we need a good one.

tblain1
09-08-2009, 06:29 PM
The Lions obviously need a kicker. Jason Hanson is obviously on his way out. We should try to tpick one up in the first or second round. Kickers usually score the most points on the team so we need a good one.

Actually we should trade up regardless of position to get one.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
09-09-2009, 08:05 PM
Jason Hanson was a second rounder back in 92. One of the few kickers worth a second round pick probably.

SINCE1978
09-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Really guys are you seriously discussing a 1st/2nd round pick on a kicker for the Lions? Granted Hanson just had minor surgery and his kick offs are not what they used to be ... BUT he is arguably coming off his best year, certainly one of his most accurate years.

Besides, we have plenty of holes like youth at CB, at LT (Backus is average & getting up there) and our Dline is suspect with Jackson & Hill. Plenty of draft talent at those 3 positions to fill our #1, #2 & #3 picks in 2010 ... not spending one on a kicker.

ironman4579
09-10-2009, 10:47 PM
Really guys are you seriously discussing a 1st/2nd round pick on a kicker for the Lions? Granted Hanson just had minor surgery and his kick offs are not what they used to be ... BUT he is arguably coming off his best year, certainly one of his most accurate years.

Besides, we have plenty of holes like youth at CB, at LT (Backus is average & getting up there) and our Dline is suspect with Jackson & Hill. Plenty of draft talent at those 3 positions to fill our #1, #2 & #3 picks in 2010 ... not spending one on a kicker.

Sarcasm is tough to pick up on the internetz.

SINCE1978
09-13-2009, 08:41 PM
My bad. lol.

Back to real draft ideas ... DB is a must. I am sick of other teams FA scraps as our stop gap corners. How long will this continue? That is no way to build in the NFL. For depth and injury protection I agree that guys like Anthony Henry, Marquand Manuel & Eric King make sense. But it is well documented how this organization has fired and missed on just about every draft pick the last half dozen years and are now forced to over use the waiver wire to fill such a key position on the field.
Here's proof ...
Of the 10 men in the defensive backfield on the active Lions 3 deep roster, just 1 guy is a product of a Lions draft and it's Delmas.

There are several S (that are not top 10 picks like Mays or Berry) and plenty of CB's that we need to study up on. With Rogers in GB & Cutler in Chicago it is a must to put another S and a CB back there with Delmas to compete with these arms. (I left rocking chair Favre out b/c he will only be there this year)

Scotty D
09-13-2009, 10:32 PM
How would Mays or Berry compliment Delmas? I don't know much about them as prospects.

tblain1
09-14-2009, 11:04 AM
Really guys are you seriously discussing a 1st/2nd round pick on a kicker for the Lions? Granted Hanson just had minor surgery and his kick offs are not what they used to be ... BUT he is arguably coming off his best year, certainly one of his most accurate years.

Besides, we have plenty of holes like youth at CB, at LT (Backus is average & getting up there) and our Dline is suspect with Jackson & Hill. Plenty of draft talent at those 3 positions to fill our #1, #2 & #3 picks in 2010 ... not spending one on a kicker.

No, I'm not serious. Just sarcastically playing up an idiotic post. I'll repeat what I wanted for last years draft:

1a. DLINE
1b. OLINE

I'll take Hanson's replacement in free agency (either undrafted kicker or a pro FA). Kickers aren't worth draft picks.

CBs are fine, but getting a good CB before a good defensive line is like a cow in sexy lingerie. Even the good CBs can't cover forever, and if we can't get to the QB then money on a good CB is wasted.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
09-14-2009, 12:33 PM
I was hell bent on DT but DE is looking bad too. Where was Avril? White? Only one game and it was the number one O last year but yikes. I think the game plan was to only rush four because of Brees capabilities but that gameplan must change.

Scotty D
09-14-2009, 03:05 PM
I was hell bent on DT but DE is looking bad too. Where was Avril? White? Only one game and it was the number one O last year but yikes. I think the game plan was to only rush four because of Brees capabilities but that gameplan must change.

They had a backup LT playing as well.

Babylon
09-14-2009, 03:20 PM
How would Mays or Berry compliment Delmas? I don't know much about them as prospects.

I think Berry would get to more balls in the secondary than Mays and where the Lions are going to be picking (unfortunately) you would probably be taking Mays too early.

OT is where i figured they'd go first but after that defensive performance yesterday i'm not sure. Gonna need more games to settle the 1st pick debate.

Prowler
09-14-2009, 04:13 PM
the saints are kind of exotic and really exposed our flaws. the vikings game will go along way towards showing what our more immediate needs are. can we stop the run? and can we stop a 40 year old qb? the vikings aren't exactly going to be throwing the ball 60 times.

Scotty D
09-14-2009, 05:51 PM
the saints are kind of exotic and really exposed our flaws. the vikings game will go along way towards showing what our more immediate needs are. can we stop the run? and can we stop a 40 year old qb? the vikings aren't exactly going to be throwing the ball 60 times.

This game could have been a lot worse. We left a lot of points out on the field as well.

SINCE1978
09-16-2009, 08:46 PM
No, I'm not serious. Just sarcastically playing up an idiotic post. I'll repeat what I wanted for last years draft:

1a. DLINE
1b. OLINE

I'll take Hanson's replacement in free agency (either undrafted kicker or a pro FA). Kickers aren't worth draft picks.

CBs are fine, but getting a good CB before a good defensive line is like a cow in sexy lingerie. Even the good CBs can't cover forever, and if we can't get to the QB then money on a good CB is wasted.

Well the answer to our prayers has arrived my friend, DE Turk McBride (former 2nd rd pk of KC) is now a Lion. Our pass rusher extraordinaire has arrived via the "we no longer want you" wire... (gulp)

I hear ya ... former lineman here myself who banged my head against the wall going into last years draft about wanting this organization to build up front with the big uglies. Run the football stop the run like Mayhew/schwartz mentioned at coaches first press conference. It will happen. Pettigrew pick may haunt us. That was an ideal spot for a Beatty/Britton/Oher pick or Peria Jerry but we'll see ...

Prowler
09-16-2009, 09:09 PM
how long until turk is starting?

WMD
09-16-2009, 09:11 PM
I know what you mean about going OT/DT, but Pettigrew is said to be like an extra OT out there. He'll definitely help run the football. It's not like he's strictly a pass catching TE like Shawn Nelson.

Xiomera
09-16-2009, 10:19 PM
Good thing it's a good year for DT's in the first round (seemingly).

SINCE1978
09-17-2009, 06:21 PM
I know what you mean about going OT/DT, but Pettigrew is said to be like an extra OT out there. He'll definitely help run the football. It's not like he's strictly a pass catching TE like Shawn Nelson.

Not good enough imho. A top 20 pick for a TE needs to equate to a top 3 in the league producer at that position to justify it. Especially on an 0-16 team full of holes! The stakes are too high. Witten, Gates, Clark, Pettigrew should be fantasy order for TE's. He was hardly the #3 producer in that game Sunday behind Shockey & Heller!! Granted he's a rookie, and a hell of a kid I hear BUT I think the organization put Brandon Pettigrew behind the 8 ball before he played a down in this league. He could still be a tremendous talent but a top 20 pick on a TE is a luxury pick worthy of a team with only a few holes to fill. NOT a pick to be made by a team containing one of the statistically worst defenses in league history! There will be a TE safety blanket for Stafford next year. Make the argument that Peria Jerry or Ziggy Hood would not have been a higher need or BPA pick for Detroit?

WMD
09-17-2009, 09:49 PM
I don't know what their Draft Board looked like. Maybe they had Brandon Pettigrew ranked #8 Overall and had Michael Oher ranked #25 or so. I'm pretty sure they said they were going BPA all along.. Not BPA according to Mel Kiper, Todd McShay or Scott Wright's draft board, but BPA according to them.

SINCE1978
09-17-2009, 10:20 PM
Oh no question they were BPA all draft ... Mayhew admits that is his m.o.

And I was questioning Lions Mgt not you.
(becuse they read this you know ...haha)

Scenario: If say Pittsburgh always drafted BPA (a team many would agree is in a legit position to do so) if they had QB Josh Freeman on their board ranked higher than DT Ziggy Hood last year and he was available, they should take the QB b/c of their board? Big Ben says heck no! It does not always fit.

I just hope they address the beef in 2010. Just go ahead and take a 6-5 270 DE, another 320 NT, an athletic 6-7 315 LT, a C and maybe splash in a shifty little CB for good measure =)

Maybe Next Year Millen2
09-18-2009, 12:35 PM
Not good enough imho. A top 20 pick for a TE needs to equate to a top 3 in the league producer at that position to justify it. Especially on an 0-16 team full of holes! The stakes are too high. Witten, Gates, Clark, Pettigrew should be fantasy order for TE's. He was hardly the #3 producer in that game Sunday behind Shockey & Heller!! Granted he's a rookie, and a hell of a kid I hear BUT I think the organization put Brandon Pettigrew behind the 8 ball before he played a down in this league. He could still be a tremendous talent but a top 20 pick on a TE is a luxury pick worthy of a team with only a few holes to fill. NOT a pick to be made by a team containing one of the statistically worst defenses in league history! There will be a TE safety blanket for Stafford next year. Make the argument that Peria Jerry or Ziggy Hood would not have been a higher need or BPA pick for Detroit?

Tight End is more than just a receiver. Blocking is a huge reason we took Pettigrew along with his receiving skills. 0-16 team has multiple holes. Pettigrew filled more than one hole and we did really need a tight end(which is a trench aid at least) and was up there in the contention for BPA. He aided in pass protection, run blocking and he has receiving abilities, maybe not a Gates/Witten but good potential there and potential to be a better blocker than both of those guys while still giving us a receiving threat. Missing most of TC with his thigh injury obviously hurt him. He will get better, its only one game no need to judge this pick or any pick yet. Oher is playing Right Tackle, who's to say he would excel at Left Tackle or Left Guard here. Jerry or Hood would be nice but again its only one game at least in terms of Jerry. I assume he started and played well since Atlanta beat Miami. Hood is in a 3-4 so who knows with him. And again only one game.

SINCE1978
09-18-2009, 06:22 PM
I hear you on the position and on not judging draft picks just yet ... Pettigrew was a super talented college player with great upside in the pros I am nut judging him (in fact just the opposite in both posts) I just think the pick, the fit, the BPA strategy the Lions implemented could have been served better to build a young nucleus of talent up front on the D. They knew this front 4 was a mystery going into the draft. It's been very apparent by just how many waiver wire players have filled in up front on D since Schwartz has taken over. (Jason Hunter, Turk McBride, Shaun Smith, Copeland Bryan Orien Harris (t)... it's laughable)
I just thought a DE or DT (or LT) in that 20 spot would have made more sense. I would have said this today even if Pettigrew had 5 catches and a touchdown last Sunday.

Prowler
09-18-2009, 08:51 PM
maybe we are percolating coffee.

"It might seem crazy, but I'm looking at this team five or 10 years down the road, and it is filled with good young players from the draft. I'm percolating coffee here. I'm not making instant."
-Rod Marinelli

P-L
09-18-2009, 11:44 PM
Scenario: If say Pittsburgh always drafted BPA (a team many would agree is in a legit position to do so) if they had QB Josh Freeman on their board ranked higher than DT Ziggy Hood last year and he was available, they should take the QB b/c of their board? Big Ben says heck no! It does not always fit.
That really isn't a fair comparison. Big Ben is an established, Pro Bowl quarterback who has two Super Bowl rings. The Lions had a collection of tight ends that wouldn't make most other teams' rosters.

WMD
09-19-2009, 02:27 AM
That really isn't a fair comparison. Big Ben is an established, Pro Bowl quarterback who has two Super Bowl rings. The Lions had a collection of tight ends that wouldn't make most other teams' rosters.
Well if they had a 2nd Round grade on Freeman, they perhaps could have taken him. After all, the Eagles picked Kevin Kolb in Round 2 a couple years back.

Scotty D
09-19-2009, 10:39 AM
I like to go by best value combined with team need. I think teams that follow BPA all use a little common sense.

But in the Freeman scenario I could see Pittsburgh taking him. Every draft pick is an investment. Its worth it it spend a second rounder on a long term backup if you have a franchise QB. Espicially with Big Ben's play style, which I think opens him up to injury. QBs are so coveted that you can also flip him in 3-4 years like Matt Schuab.

Prowler
09-19-2009, 06:49 PM
stanton's contract was only around 400k a year, so if a super bowl winning team needed a backup then it would be a nice option.

ironman4579
09-21-2009, 08:47 PM
Just to point out, Dunlap has looked terrible so far this season. As of right now I don't think I'd use a first round pick on him, let alone a top 5 pick.

WMD
09-22-2009, 12:29 AM
Just to point out, Dunlap has looked terrible so far this season. As of right now I don't think I'd use a first round pick on him, let alone a top 5 pick.
I'll have none of this badmouthing Dunlap!

I will have you executed!

Saints-Tigers
09-22-2009, 03:30 AM
Dunlap is getting treated like Mario Williams. Everyone forgets how much they hated him pre-draft and how he was going to fail because he wasn't driven, etc.

It's been two games, it's not like Dunlap didn't perform last season, he has production, and he has production in big games.

Seriously, this draft is so amazing for a team that doesn't need a QB or skill position O. Okung,McCoy, Suh, Dunlap, Berry, Trent Williams... wow.

ironman4579
09-22-2009, 07:45 AM
Dunlap is getting treated like Mario Williams. Everyone forgets how much they hated him pre-draft and how he was going to fail because he wasn't driven, etc.

It's been two games, it's not like Dunlap didn't perform last season, he has production, and he has production in big games.

Seriously, this draft is so amazing for a team that doesn't need a QB or skill position O. Okung,McCoy, Suh, Dunlap, Berry, Trent Williams... wow.


3 games actually, and he's still terrible against the run this year..............................

DoWnThEfiElD
09-22-2009, 07:46 PM
The way Eric Berry is playing we should get him.

P-L
09-22-2009, 08:34 PM
The way Eric Berry is playing we should get him.
Eric Berry and Louis Delmas. :eek:

Prowler
09-22-2009, 08:47 PM
i think it has to be terrance cody for public relations reasons. people have been screaming about the o and d lines for a couple years now and we need the biggest possible guy out there to prove to everyone that the lions are changing and listening. plus he'd actually fill a pretty big need. just hopefully the lions win a few games and aren't drafting at the very top of the board.

SINCE1978
09-24-2009, 05:09 PM
Glad to see this thread back talking 10 draft scenarios ... besides that is primarily what we are here at draftcountdown.com to talk about right? ;o)

Anyway, saw a mock today that got me excited. Different from most and it goes against my "build in the trenches" mantra (sort of). I look at 2009 as being 1 giant pre-season for franchise (ie Stafford) to 1) get experience thus 2) allow the game to slow down for him. I also think with Millen a distant memory (although who will ever forget?) they have done a decent job of collecting talent on this ball club. This 2010 3 rounder is a solid continuation of just that, collecting talent and in key positions of need.

4) Eric Berry S, Rockytop
36) Arthur Jones DT, Cuse
68) Kyle Wilson CB/KR Boise St

(** note ** also available @ pick #68 were CB's Patrick Robinson, Walter Thurmond & Javier Arenas ... along with DE's Brandon Long from Troy & Brandon Graham from Michigan)

I believe this is a great year for 2nd to 3rd round CB's and of Wilson, Robinson,Thurmond & Arenas I could see at least 3 of those 4 stepping in across from Buchanon next year and starting.

SINCE1978
09-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Just to point out, Dunlap has looked terrible so far this season. As of right now I don't think I'd use a first round pick on him, let alone a top 5 pick.

Ironman I agree with you on Dunlap. Of course I reserve the right to change this opinion if he turns it around in the next 2 months, but I have watched him pretty close myself and he does not play that inspired/hard. I love his measurables but can sum it up this way ... freak of an athlete, not a fantastic "football" player.

SINCE1978
09-29-2009, 09:18 PM
Rising CB prospect from Oregon, Walter Thurmond III is out for the remainder of the season with an injury. As The Schwartz would say about the injury, "he's got a knee". ;o)

Bummer, I was liking him as a potential 3rd rounder for Detroit ...

SINCE1978
10-03-2009, 05:36 PM
Kade Weston DT, UGA is a beast! Watching him & Geno Atkins stuff LSU for the most part this afternoon. Weston is a 6-5 330 lb ballerina ... wow! Scott has him lsted as the #25 DT, I wonder if he could be around a 4th round pick up for Detroit?

By the way Geno Atkins is living up to the top 5 DT hype. He is super talented. Funny watching such a large man wearing #56 ;o)

Scotty D
10-09-2009, 02:02 AM
Hmm

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Eric Berry
4. Carlos Dunlap
5. Greg Hardy

ironman4579
10-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Hmm

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Eric Berry
4. Carlos Dunlap
5. Greg Hardy

Still a no on Dunlap for me. He has looked horrid this year other than a couple plays against Troy and Kentucky. Otherwise he's been invisible and routinely getting blown off the ball on running plays. Plus he looks lazy. Still a guy that's getting hyped on measurables, but he looks more like Calais Campbell than Mario Williams or Julius Peppers at this point. As I said before I wouldn't touch this guy in the first round right now, let alone with a top 5-10 pick.

Prowler
10-09-2009, 11:45 AM
i do like suh for us more than mccoy. more strength at the point of attack than mccoy's speed. we traded our rush dt in redding last year so we're probably looking more for strength. although i'd have to see them both at the combine in an equal setting to truly judge strength/speed.

WMD
10-09-2009, 03:55 PM
i do like suh for us more than mccoy. more strength at the point of attack than mccoy's speed. we traded our rush dt in redding last year so we're probably looking more for strength. although i'd have to see them both at the combine in an equal setting to truly judge strength/speed.
Yeah, Schwartz loves Size and Strength, so he's probably gonna fall in love with Ndamukong Suh. No complaints here.

P-L
10-09-2009, 04:03 PM
I'll take either McCoy or Suh without complaints.

SINCE1978
10-09-2009, 06:05 PM
I have not completely given up on Dunlap. Let's see how he stacks up against Ciron Black tomorrow night under the bright lights in the Bayou.

McCoy & Suh are both solid. Odds are 1 of them will be a bust though. I think the talent level is pretty good for DT in the upcoming draft if we don't go with that position with our #1 pick.

ironman4579
10-10-2009, 10:47 AM
I have not completely given up on Dunlap. Let's see how he stacks up against Ciron Black tomorrow night under the bright lights in the Bayou.

McCoy & Suh are both solid. Odds are 1 of them will be a bust though. I think the talent level is pretty good for DT in the upcoming draft if we don't go with that position with our #1 pick.

Nor have I. He still has plenty of time to turn it around and look like the impact top 10 player some people thought he could be. Hell, he's got a senior season if need be. That said, he hasn't looked good at all this year, so for now, I'm not on the bandwagon.

ironman4579
10-10-2009, 09:26 PM
Just to point out, Dunlap is getting owned by Black tonight. I think the only time he's had his name called that I've seen is for getting a 15 yard personal foul penalty.

On the flip side, Brandon Graham is killing Brian Bulaga.

SINCE1978
10-11-2009, 07:20 AM
Yeah I agree ... 55 (Graham) & 94 (Clayborn) were all over the field last night making plays. Not sure if Adrian Clayborn is coming out as a jr but his stock is soaring! He looked awesome against both U of M & PSU.

I am confident we go DT with our #1 pick in 2010. (barring any crazy injury like Backus blowing out his knee or something) so we should polish up on McCoy & Suh, they seem to be the front runners.

ironman4579
10-11-2009, 07:59 AM
Yeah I agree ... 55 (Graham) & 94 (Clayborn) were all over the field last night making plays. Not sure if Adrian Clayborn is coming out as a jr but his stock is soaring! He looked awesome against both U of M & PSU.

I am confident we go DT with our #1 pick in 2010. (barring any crazy injury like Backus blowing out his knee or something) so we should polish up on McCoy & Suh, they seem to be the front runners.

I would be very happy with either. They're different types of DT's, so it's kind of personal preference which one you'd rather have. The quick penetrating type, or the big powerful type?

There's actually quite a few guys I wouldn't mind taking, depending on where we're drafting.

I'm just very against taking Dunlap in the top 5-10.

Scotty D
10-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Graham is a beast. I love his game. If we go any direction besides Dline in the first I'd like him in the second.

WMD
10-11-2009, 01:13 PM
Graham is a beast. I love his game. If we go any direction besides Dline in the first I'd like him in the second.
I have a feeling we go DL in Round 1 and then take a speedy WR or RB in Round 2.

SINCE1978
10-11-2009, 09:09 PM
I have a feeling we go DL in Round 1 and then take a speedy WR or RB in Round 2.

Wow, very interesting. Who are your RB/WR choices at say overall pick #37?
I'm not enamored with the RB's in this draft and the WR's are not much better in say the 2nd rd but it is still waaayyyy early.

I would like to see DT then DE ... ie Suh/McCoy then Graham/Morgan (Ga Tech) Wow, that would excite me! I know, some would say overkill with 2 D-lineman but boy do the Lions need help up there! You know Schwartz is used to having a playmaker plug in the middle having the luxuries of several years of Haynesworth's services.

noondog
10-13-2009, 09:07 AM
At this point, I'd like to see Detroit go LT in the first round and BPA on the D-line in the second, followed by BPA in the secondary in the third.

My rationale is as follows: Although the Lions are having a brutal time getting any pressure on the QB, the run game and O-line play in general really sucks. Kevin Smith's YPC is miserable as he rarely gets a hole to run through, and Backus was brutal against the Steelers (albeit most tackles have problems with Harrison). Nonetheless, for the offense to truly suceed, Smith needs to be able to hit a YPC of around 4.2 or 4.3 and Stafford needs to be comfortable with his blindside.

I think that the DL will be easier to address through FA as well than the O-line would.

Iamcanadian
10-13-2009, 11:10 AM
While I would love for this draft to be totally committed to the defense starting with the best DT and DE, I know Stafford's blind side must be protected if he is to have a long successful career. The team will likely focus on a LT who can protect their investment in Stafford for a long time.
The reality is we cannot afford to draft a DT in round 1 and risk a career ending injury to Stafford so a LT is the likely pick. Round 2 through 7 may all be defensive players depending on who is available.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-13-2009, 12:08 PM
I agree that LT may be the pick next year. But passing on Suh or McCoy just sucks monkey balls given the lack of interior pass rush or run stuffing. I think if we got an interior rush, we could do well with Avril,White,McBride,Hunter at DE. They seem to get up the field fine they just can't turn the corner consistently. With an interior rush, the QB has to make a move somewhere. Hopefully we can find an LT somehow in free agency or it turns out to be a deep LT class for early Round 2. Plus then we've got that pesky lack of corner back problem. I really hope Buchanon steps up now with King down on IR, Henry and William James clearly aren't the answer on one year deals and getting beat more often than not. We've got 11 more games to figure things out on the Dline front with guys like Avril,McBride. DE, I'm still really counting on Avril. He's had a sack in each game since returning from the injury but he's not consistent. DeWayne White has been injured but his first 3 games really stunk.

Scotty D
10-13-2009, 01:54 PM
I agree that LT may be the pick next year. But passing on Suh or McCoy just sucks monkey balls given the lack of interior pass rush or run stuffing. I think if we got an interior rush, we could do well with Avril,White,McBride,Hunter at DE. They seem to get up the field fine they just can't turn the corner consistently. With an interior rush, the QB has to make a move somewhere. Hopefully we can find an LT somehow in free agency or it turns out to be a deep LT class for early Round 2. Plus then we've got that pesky lack of corner back problem. I really hope Buchanon steps up now with King down on IR, Henry and William James clearly aren't the answer on one year deals and getting beat more often than not. We've got 11 more games to figure things out on the Dline front with guys like Avril,McBride. DE, I'm still really counting on Avril. He's had a sack in each game since returning from the injury but he's not consistent. DeWayne White has been injured but his first 3 games really stunk.

The talent on the defensive side of the ball is just really bad. Did we even draft a cornerback? Arghhhh

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-13-2009, 02:30 PM
The talent on the defensive side of the ball is just really bad. Did we even draft a cornerback? Arghhhh

Foote,Delmas,Peterson I'll take next year for sure along with Sammie Lee Hill.

Sammie Lee Hill who is hurt, Avril also have talent/potential but need time. Its running out for Avril but I think Hill will be a good DT. Both will be contributors next year.

Levy is showing flashes but I've been burned by LBs showing flashes many times before. Between Levy and Sims and the 2 good LBs though LB is still set for 2010. Of course, Foote needs to be resigned.

Cohen/Fluellen are young and do have some talent but no more than solid backups for the future unless something happens in the next 11 games.

Sims is on the down side due to mental errors. Can't teach his speed but he needs more size. Help in front of him makes a difference whereas Foote and Peterson seem to be fine.

Hunter has played well but now is hurt, but realistically he's a solid backup at best just like DeVries when he comes back.

DeWayne White is looking like another Millen failure and with his salary probably won't be back at this point but we still have 11 games to go.

And then corner we went the free agent route. Buchanon is most disappointing since he was benched and should have been our number 1, King hasn't impressed and now is on IR so can't turn it around but on a 2 year deal he'll be back and Henry is the old vet. William James is in the same category as Jason Hunter. Buchanon really needs to step up with King down and Henry struggling since Buchanon and King are on two year deals. We need to find a corner in free agency or through a trade in the worst way.

So basically all LBs and one safety fixed, 3rd down DE set and one DT is set plus backup DTs are set with 11 games to go. A stud DT, 2 corners and a stud DE are needed for next offseason along with stud LT on offense. I think the stud DT fixes DE some too and helps the LBs so that should be the priority. Other safety and Guards are a low priority. Hopefully Loper,Ramirez and Peterman step up. Corner is another free agency attempt IMO with the stink of 0-16 off us we could get a decent one and LT in Round 2. Round 3 trade for a veteran corner or DE.

Babylon
10-13-2009, 06:47 PM
I agree that LT may be the pick next year. But passing on Suh or McCoy just sucks monkey balls given the lack of interior pass rush or run stuffing. I think if we got an interior rush, we could do well with Avril,White,McBride,Hunter at DE. They seem to get up the field fine they just can't turn the corner consistently. With an interior rush, the QB has to make a move somewhere. Hopefully we can find an LT somehow in free agency or it turns out to be a deep LT class for early Round 2. Plus then we've got that pesky lack of corner back problem. I really hope Buchanon steps up now with King down on IR, Henry and William James clearly aren't the answer on one year deals and getting beat more often than not. We've got 11 more games to figure things out on the Dline front with guys like Avril,McBride. DE, I'm still really counting on Avril. He's had a sack in each game since returning from the injury but he's not consistent. DeWayne White has been injured but his first 3 games really stunk.

I'm on board with that logic. Whatever OT the Lions are going to be looking at with their 1st pick (shall we say top half dozen) is going to be ranked far behind the two top DTs and the top safety.

P-L
10-13-2009, 08:44 PM
You pick the best player available at a position of need, you don't draft just based on need. Suh, McCoy, and even Eric Berry are both eons better than any tackle prospect in this year's draft. If any of them are available at our pick you can't pass on an elite prospect at a position of need just because that player isn't your #1 need.

Babylon
10-13-2009, 10:18 PM
You pick the best player available at a position of need, you don't draft just based on need. Suh, McCoy, and even Eric Berry are both eons better than any tackle prospect in this year's draft. If any of them are available at our pick you can't pass on an elite prospect at a position of need just because that player isn't your #1 need.

Good point.

cotts1
10-13-2009, 10:49 PM
I honestly think the Lions should take Eric Berry. He is a once a decade safety whereas Suh, McCoy are good but not overly special. Berry and Delmas could end up being one of the best tandems ever. Also, this draft is deep with DT and DE prospects. We'll be able to get a solid DT/DE in rounds 2 and 3.

I think we'll end up with something like the 6th-7th pick. Hopefully he's still there. Plus it's not like our secondary isn't a need anyway.

Scotty D
10-13-2009, 11:01 PM
DT's have pretty big bust rates as well. It'll be interesting to break down Suh and McCoy. Scott has said stats don't really matter much when looking at DTs.

SINCE1978
10-14-2009, 08:21 PM
You pick the best player available at a position of need, you don't draft just based on need. Suh, McCoy, and even Eric Berry are both eons better than any tackle prospect in this year's draft. If any of them are available at our pick you can't pass on an elite prospect at a position of need just because that player isn't your #1 need.

I agree 100%!!!

Berry, Suh & McCoy are pretty impressive, although I imagine 1 of the D tackles will be a likely bust. Okung has his weaknesses as the premiere LT in the draft.

Our DB's are giving up way to much. Every QB is posting record #'s (again) against them. Some argue it is the front 4's lack of pressure I say yes but both areas need to be addressed. BPA defense all draft long! DT's DE's CB's S ... oh it's on! Go buy a LT or let Murtha give it a shot, Salaam & Jansen were get-able in the off season? There will be a proven LT available, draft D starting with McCoy, Berry, Suh or Dunlap.

Prowler
10-14-2009, 09:55 PM
mccoy reminds me of tommie harris and he's a bear. i don't like the bears, so i want suh.

Iamcanadian
10-15-2009, 09:30 PM
You pick the best player available at a position of need, you don't draft just based on need. Suh, McCoy, and even Eric Berry are both eons better than any tackle prospect in this year's draft. If any of them are available at our pick you can't pass on an elite prospect at a position of need just because that player isn't your #1 need.

There are some fine LT prospect there as well. What good is McCoy and Suh if you lose your young franchise QB to a serious injury because your LT cannot protect him

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-16-2009, 10:59 AM
There are some fine LT prospect there as well. What good is McCoy and Suh if you lose your young franchise QB to a serious injury because your LT cannot protect him

Don't know that an injury would happen for sure. Stafford has been able to get rid of the ball fairly well. Sure Stafford got hurt this year but it was Gosders fault a 1st round tackle/freak twist of the knee. Suh/McCoy would be still be in total beast mode and make Adrian Peterson cry for years. Plus there is always 2nd Round for LT, free agency maybe and Staffords quick release. Plus the aid of Pettigrew.

Backus will be replaced but a stud DT is a higher priority considering how our defense plays right now in the run D dept and interior pass rush and how our offense can actually do fairly well even with Backus.

Iamcanadian
10-16-2009, 11:21 AM
Don't know that an injury would happen for sure. Stafford has been able to get rid of the ball fairly well. Sure Stafford got hurt this year but it was Gosders fault a 1st round tackle/freak twist of the knee. Suh/McCoy would be still be in total beast mode and make Adrian Peterson cry for years. Plus there is always 2nd Round for LT, free agency maybe and Staffords quick release. Plus the aid of Pettigrew.

Backus will be replaced but a stud DT is a higher priority considering how our defense plays right now in the run D dept and interior pass rush and how our offense can actually do fairly well even with Backus.

You can forget about FA in finding a LT. It is so rare that a team exposes their LT to FA that I wouldn't want to depend on that method.
While I am in complete agreement that a stud DLman needs to be procured, GM's traditionally draft protection if they have a young franchise type QB. The odds of your QB surviving injuries without a solid LT is too high to risk it.
We have waited 50 years to find a franchise QB and not having as your 1st priority his protection as paramount is just fool hardy IMO. The only reason I can fathom for not drafting a LT is if you already have a solid one. The QB position is accepted in pro ball as the most important position on your football team and a GM would have to be an idiot to leave his protection as a secondary priority. It is far easier to find DLmen after round 1 than it is to find a solid LT.
Now if none of the LT prospects measure up to being at least a top 10 talent, then by all means the team is free to draft in another direction and right now I'm not sure which is the case so I cannot say for certain that a LT will be our pick but every year we don't provide our QB with maximum protection at LT is another year you risk his career being quite short.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-16-2009, 12:18 PM
You can forget about FA in finding a LT. It is so rare that a team exposes their LT to FA that I wouldn't want to depend on that method.
While I am in complete agreement that a stud DLman needs to be procured, GM's traditionally draft protection if they have a young franchise type QB. The odds of your QB surviving injuries without a solid LT is too high to risk it.
We have waited 50 years to find a franchise QB and not having as your 1st priority his protection as paramount is just fool hardy IMO. The only reason I can fathom for not drafting a LT is if you already have a solid one. The QB position is accepted in pro ball as the most important position on your football team and a GM would have to be an idiot to leave his protection as a secondary priority. It is far easier to find DLmen after round 1 than it is to find a solid LT.
Now if none of the LT prospects measure up to being at least a top 10 talent, then by all means the team is free to draft in another direction and right now I'm not sure which is the case so I cannot say for certain that a LT will be our pick but every year we don't provide our QB with maximum protection at LT is another year you risk his career being quite short.

FA is tough I agree. However, Jamaal Brown may be available. He went on IR this year and the New Orleans backup has been doing very well I believe. If he continues to shine, Brown might be available depending if they franchise to trade Brown since he is a talent, depending on their cap room. Marcus McNeil is also a free agent, but I would think San Diego would franchise him. Some other stopgaps for one year include Chad Clifton(Colledge and Spitz also free agents but Pack have alot of cap room), Mike Gandy(good enough for Warner) and Donald Penn(worst option but decent). Also Eugene Amano who is a very good LG from the Titans is a free agent. I don't think we'll ignore LT though if we miss in FA. Round 2 is a good possibility with a high Round 2 pick or even work into the late 1st somehow if it means like a 4th round pick. Don't want to get into trade ups though since draft is long way off. If Suh/McCoy are BPA we are going Suh/McCoy based on what I saw of Mayhews strategy this year.

Plus not every team employs the 1st Round LT strategy. Baltimore(Gaither),Pittsburgh(Starks 3rd round),Cincy(Whitworth until Smith starts),Colts(Charlie Johnson/Ugoh),Titans(Roos),Chargers(McNeil),Packers(Clifto n),Bears(FA Pace who is a first round talent obviously although they have Chris Williams we have Gosder),Arizona(Gandy although they have Brown at RT we have Gosder),Bucs(Donald Penn),Giants(Diehl),Eagles(Peters, traded a 1st but he wasn't a 1st Round talent in draft),Cowboys(Flozell used to be good),Patriots(Light),Bills(had Peters but chose Demetrius Bell to develop him),Raiders(tried Gallery, now Mario Henderson but that team is more of a mess than LT). Can be done in later than Round 1 with many teams on this list with success. Sure the top 10 LT is most likely the way to go but our defense is just too putrid and Suh/McCoy are just that talent.

Stafford is getting better even with Backus struggling at LT. He got hurt because of Gosder/a freak twist of the knee and he'll be back after the bye. If the LT is class is deep wait until Round 2. And with Mayhews BPA strategy, Suh/McCoy are probably going to be BPA staring Mayhew in the face on draft day. DT class is pretty strong too so we'll see how it plays out. But we've still got 11 games,rest of college season, combines and everything else to sort this out.

WMD
10-16-2009, 04:29 PM
With the 2011 Draft possibly being the first to incorporate a rookie pay scale, I think a lot of players are gonna declare early. I say we should use our 2011 First Rounder to trade for one this year.

Iamcanadian
10-17-2009, 12:11 PM
FA is tough I agree. However, Jamaal Brown may be available. He went on IR this year and the New Orleans backup has been doing very well I believe. If he continues to shine, Brown might be available depending if they franchise to trade Brown since he is a talent, depending on their cap room. Marcus McNeil is also a free agent, but I would think San Diego would franchise him. Some other stopgaps for one year include Chad Clifton(Colledge and Spitz also free agents but Pack have alot of cap room), Mike Gandy(good enough for Warner) and Donald Penn(worst option but decent). Also Eugene Amano who is a very good LG from the Titans is a free agent. I don't think we'll ignore LT though if we miss in FA. Round 2 is a good possibility with a high Round 2 pick or even work into the late 1st somehow if it means like a 4th round pick. Don't want to get into trade ups though since draft is long way off. If Suh/McCoy are BPA we are going Suh/McCoy based on what I saw of Mayhews strategy this year.

Plus not every team employs the 1st Round LT strategy. Baltimore(Gaither),Pittsburgh(Starks 3rd round),Cincy(Whitworth until Smith starts),Colts(Charlie Johnson/Ugoh),Titans(Roos),Chargers(McNeil),Packers(Clifto n),Bears(FA Pace who is a first round talent obviously although they have Chris Williams we have Gosder),Arizona(Gandy although they have Brown at RT we have Gosder),Bucs(Donald Penn),Giants(Diehl),Eagles(Peters, traded a 1st but he wasn't a 1st Round talent in draft),Cowboys(Flozell used to be good),Patriots(Light),Bills(had Peters but chose Demetrius Bell to develop him),Raiders(tried Gallery, now Mario Henderson but that team is more of a mess than LT). Can be done in later than Round 1 with many teams on this list with success. Sure the top 10 LT is most likely the way to go but our defense is just too putrid and Suh/McCoy are just that talent.

Stafford is getting better even with Backus struggling at LT. He got hurt because of Gosder/a freak twist of the knee and he'll be back after the bye. If the LT is class is deep wait until Round 2. And with Mayhews BPA strategy, Suh/McCoy are probably going to be BPA staring Mayhew in the face on draft day. DT class is pretty strong too so we'll see how it plays out. But we've still got 11 games,rest of college season, combines and everything else to sort this out.

I would rate it 60-40 that we draft a LT. I can give you a list 50x longer of LT's drafted past round 1 who have failed. I'm not saying we will draft a LT, I'm just saying that protecting our investment in Stafford is paramount if this franchise is to go forward.
If we draft a DLmen and Stafford get a career threating injury because Backus couldn't protect him, you really think this franchise will go forward?


Gaither had already shown he would be a solid LT so there was no reason to draft another one.
Starks is the reason Roethlisberger has been running for his life and it will be interesting to see if he makes it to the playoffs healthy.
Cincy obviously drafted a LT to protect Palmer. They just want him to get experience before they entrust him with the job.
Colts admit that LT is a serious problem for them and Peyton has already had a serious injury with this pair, requiring surgery.
Roos is a rare small college find.
McNeil was a sure 1st rounder who slipped to round 2 because teams were seriously worried about his spine. He obviously has survived till now.
Clifton is a winner for you.
Chris Williamns was drafted to play LT and when Pace retires, he'll move over to LT. Chicago didn't know they could secure Pace when they drafted Williams. Williams like Smith is just getting experience before the move is made.
Believe me, Gandy is stopgap at best. Brown was drafted to protect Leinart's blind side since he is a left hander.
Penn is nothing but a stopgap solution for a losing team.
Both Deihl and Peters had proved themselves before they got to start at LT for their current teams.
Flozell is a winner for you as is Light.
Bell is worse than stopgap. Owner was too cheap to resign Peters.
Oakland tried to fill LT position but he failed. Henderson is just stopgap.

SINCE1978
10-17-2009, 01:38 PM
Wow, Gerald McCoy is all over the dang place against Texas today! Assuming he is still available when Detroit picks, I want that dude in Honolulu blue & silver next year. If Schwartz & Cunningham get their hands on that kid it could be an amazing combo.

Xiomera
10-17-2009, 01:45 PM
McCoy and Brandon Graham in rounds 1 and 2.

It's ok to dream, isn't it?

SINCE1978
10-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Oh man, that would be amazing.

cotts1
10-17-2009, 04:00 PM
I don't think Schwartz would be as high on McCoy as others. McCoy weighs about 290-300lbs. Pretty small for NFL DT standards. Sure he could add 20-30lbs but would he be the same player? McCoy fits more with what Marinelli wanted in his D-line. Small but quick.

My early draft scenario involves Mayhew making a deal and adding another late 1st again. 1st pick we take Eric Berry, other 1st we take Terrence Cody. Just those two players would improve our defense tremendously. I would love to see big Sammie Hill lined up next to Cody. 700+lbs clogging the middle for the next 5-10 years. Delmas and Berry would make one hell of a duo at safety. 2nd round they should go BA CB or DE.

Scotty D
10-17-2009, 05:04 PM
I wouldn't get to caught up in his weight. Disruptive pass rushing DTs are rare and valuable.

ironman4579
10-17-2009, 05:17 PM
I'd also say that having a ton of weight to clog the middle probably means you don't get much of a pass rush up the middle either.

cotts1
10-18-2009, 03:02 AM
Generally most teams don't generate much of a pass rush from the middle with interior lineman. It's usually a LB shooting a gap or from a DE. However, for being 365lbs Cody gets around pretty good. Just watch an Alabama game, you can't miss him. Anyway, Cody's main purpose would obviously not be to rush the passer. What the Lions want is two massive DT's and smaller but quick DE's. They have two massive DT's right now but Grady won't be around very long.

Iamcanadian
10-18-2009, 06:35 AM
Cody is a classic 2 down player who is excellent against the run but brings nothing to the table as a pass rusher. Some team will take him in round 1 as a 3-4 NT but I don't think Schwartz will be interested in a 2 down player.

ironman4579
10-18-2009, 08:02 AM
Generally most teams don't generate much of a pass rush from the middle with interior lineman. It's usually a LB shooting a gap or from a DE. However, for being 365lbs Cody gets around pretty good. Just watch an Alabama game, you can't miss him. Anyway, Cody's main purpose would obviously not be to rush the passer. What the Lions want is two massive DT's and smaller but quick DE's. They have two massive DT's right now but Grady won't be around very long.


I would completely disagree with this statement actually. The best 4-3 defenses generate great pressure from the DT position. The Vikings, Giants, Tennessee last year, etc.

As IAC said, Cody is really a 2 down player. I wouldn't touch a guy like that with a top 10 pick.


McCoy and Brandon Graham in rounds 1 and 2.

It's ok to dream, isn't it?

Unfortunately, I don't think Brandon Graham's going to be there in round 2 if he keeps playing like he has, and does what I think he can at the combine. The only think that might keep him out of round 1 is height.

It is a lovely dream though Xio. A lovely dream...........................

SINCE1978
10-18-2009, 08:50 AM
I don't want any part of Mt. Cody. He has bust written all over his giggly bellied, 20 million dollar contract! Sammie Hill is our 2 down run stuffer, give him a chance to develop once healthy.

Prowler
10-18-2009, 10:43 AM
no cody in top of 1st, but if he's there in the 2nd...then we should pull the trigger even if we already took suh. with that being said, he's going to go to the chargers, broncos, or steelers in the 1st round.

SINCE1978
10-18-2009, 01:15 PM
That scenario makes sense Prowler. All 3 are play-off caliber teams with veterans who could keep Mt. Cody in line (ie ballooning up to 400 lbs and acting a fool with that rookie contract $$) Lions don't need that high probability bust even in the 2nd. Several run stuffing NT's that have work ethic we could grab in the later rounds. (Demarcus Granger, OU, Dan Williams, Tennessee, Cam Thomas UNC, Kade Weston UGA)
If we go McCoy or Suh 1st I look for either a left DE, CB or S with pick #2.

Scotty D
10-21-2009, 05:24 PM
What about LT Jason Fox, Miami as a second round target?

Suh/McCoy/Berry then Fox?

Sign a big money free agent CB or S
Dunta Robinson
Did Marlin Jackson get paid yet?

I want to extend Foote and Peterson for 2-3 years each

Will Heller should come back on a 1 year deal. Our TEs next year Pettigrew, Heller, Gronkowski.

SINCE1978
10-21-2009, 06:24 PM
Ha ... Scotty D we are brothers from anotha motha (at least how we think about this topic) I was just researching LT for that #2 pick. Fox is having an exceptional year and is overall very impressive. (check out his blogs for Sporting News) Charles Brown out of USC is a guy I have been high on since August, look for his stock to soar. Bruce Campbell out of Maryland is another guy to keep your eye on at that spot.

Marlin I believe is a FA in 10, he's worth a look see. Along with other 2010 FA CB's William *** (Pitt) & Will Blackmon (GB).

Again, agreeing with you on the extension of Foote. Of course if he wants to be a Lion by the off season? Was Peterson only a 1 year deal? I thought 2, could be wrong. Extend him too, LB's are the strength of this team with Levy emerging ... build with Beef in front them and sure tacklers behind them.

Scotty D
10-21-2009, 06:48 PM
Ha ... Scotty D we are brothers from anotha motha (at least how we think about this topic) I was just researching LT for that #2 pick. Fox is having an exceptional year and is overall very impressive. (check out his blogs for Sporting News) Charles Brown out of USC is a guy I have been high on since August, look for his stock to soar. Bruce Campbell out of Maryland is another guy to keep your eye on at that spot.

Marlin I believe is a FA in 10, he's worth a look see. Along with other 2010 FA CB's William *** (Pitt) & Will Blackmon (GB).

Again, agreeing with you on the extension of Foote. Of course if he wants to be a Lion by the off season? Was Peterson only a 1 year deal? I thought 2, could be wrong. Extend him too, LB's are the strength of this team with Levy emerging ... build with Beef in front them and sure tacklers behind them.

Brown or Fox with our second would be a major win.

Other free agent CBs
Carlos Rogers
Terrence McGee
Richard Marshall
Stanford Routt

Free Agent Safeties
Nick Collins
Antoine Bethea
Sean Jones
Atari Bigby
Ryan Clark
Dawan Landry

I'm actually not sure on Peterson's deal. Google search!

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=431

3/23/2006: Signed a seven-year, $54 million contract. The deal contains $18.5 million guaranteed, including an $11.8 million signing bonus. 2009: $6.5 million, 2010: $7.5 million, 2011: $8 million, 2012: $8.5 million, 2013: Free Agent

So we have his contract but none of the guaranteed money. He's locked up but expensive. Probably cut him next year and save 7.5 million on the cap? Maybe I'm wrong on the money though.

Yeah I'd offer Foote something like 2 for 6 mil or 3 for 11.5-12?

I like having veteran LBs, Bill Belichicks theory is to sign veteran LBs and let other teams develop them. Thats why they high such a high LB overturn, and sign a lot of veterans.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-22-2009, 08:51 AM
Yes next year is good for free agent corners. But if its uncapped expect them to get signed for a lot of money. Carlos Rogers,Dunta Robinson,McGee,Richard Marsahll I'd take any one of them. Plus McGee is a good returner. We pretty much have to get one considering how much garbage our secondary is right now other than Delmas and Round 1 and 2 should be focused on O and Dlines. I'd take any of those safeties too but I don't think Collins or Bigby are getting out of GB. Heard they were finally trying Henry at safety after the bye.

Peterson is signed for 3 more years at very high salaries. And yes if we cut him we would save the entire 7.5 million. But I think we'll keep him around for one more year at least.

Foote must be resigned.

Scotty D
10-22-2009, 10:58 AM
Yes next year is good for free agent corners. But if its uncapped expect them to get signed for a lot of money. Carlos Rogers,Dunta Robinson,McGee,Richard Marsahll I'd take any one of them. Plus McGee is a good returner. We pretty much have to get one considering how much garbage our secondary is right now other than Delmas and Round 1 and 2 should be focused on O and Dlines. I'd take any of those safeties too but I don't think Collins or Bigby are getting out of GB. Heard they were finally trying Henry at safety after the bye.

Peterson is signed for 3 more years at very high salaries. And yes if we cut him we would save the entire 7.5 million. But I think we'll keep him around for one more year at least.

Foote must be resigned.

Off topic, but I think the "uncapped" year is going be a big nothing. I think NFL owners collude together to kept player salaries down, there may be or two players that cash in but the majority won't see the effects. I wouldn't worry about it that much.

tblain1
10-22-2009, 03:22 PM
Off topic, but I think the "uncapped" year is going be a big nothing. I think NFL owners collude together to kept player salaries down, there may be or two players that cash in but the majority won't see the effects. I wouldn't worry about it that much.

Hugely disagree.

Look at baseball. Look at hockey before the cap.
There are always desperate owners (coughSNYDERcough) and owners willing to spend (coughJERRY JONEScough) and don't give a damn about unspoken agreements with other owners. They have huge egos and deep pockets.

Removing the cap is going to change free agency big time.

Scotty D
10-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Didn't catch the Tenn-Bama game but heard Cody got two sick field goal blocks. Drawing Shaun Rogers comparisons? Him and Sammie Lee Hill in the middle would be hard to run inside on us.

I want Gerald McCoy, DT - Oklahoma or Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska

But I'm debating these players for the next spot.

Terrance Cody, DT Alabama
Eric Berry, S - Tenn.
Russell Okung, OT - Ok. State

J-Hype
10-26-2009, 03:25 AM
Is this possible or realistic

1st DT Suh nebraska
2nd T Sam Young notre dame
3rd DT Oghobasse Duke
4th CB Myron Lewis Vanderbilt
5th S Myron Rolle florida st

ironman4579
10-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Is this possible or realistic

1st DT Suh nebraska
2nd T Sam Young notre dame
3rd DT Oghobasse Duke
4th CB Myron Lewis Vanderbilt
5th S Myron Rolle florida st

Young is a RT in the NFL IMO, so I wouldn't want him at all.

I think Oghobasse will be gone by then, but it is a possibility.

I think taking Rolle would be a waste, even in the 5th. Is he even planning to play in the NFL?

Iamcanadian
10-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Off topic, but I think the "uncapped" year is going be a big nothing. I think NFL owners collude together to kept player salaries down, there may be or two players that cash in but the majority won't see the effects. I wouldn't worry about it that much.

I whole heartily agree as long as the league returns to the cap the following year. Actually, the NFL has very strict rules on signing FA's in an uncapped year. There is no way they will allow the richer teams to benefit from an uncapped year. It will be a non factor IMO.

Iamcanadian
10-26-2009, 09:53 PM
I still wouldn't rule out the Lions drafting a LT with their #1 pick. Stafford simply has to be protected at all costs. What good is it building the defense before Stafford is protected? If he gets seriously injured because we took Suh or McCoy, we will be right back to square one. NFL GM's generally will draft to protect their young franchise QB before even considering drafting another weak position. They don't usually roll the dice and gamble that Stafford survives long enough for them to find him a stud LT in a couple of years. It will be very intertesting to see how the draft unfolds.
This team needs at least 3 more drafts before it is competitive, the DL can wait IMO but protecting Stafford cannot.

WMD
10-27-2009, 12:18 AM
I still wouldn't rule out the Lions drafting a LT with their #1 pick. Stafford simply has to be protected at all costs. What good is it building the defense before Stafford is protected? If he gets seriously injured because we took Suh or McCoy, we will be right back to square one. NFL GM's generally will draft to protect their young franchise QB before even considering drafting another weak position. They don't usually roll the dice and gamble that Stafford survives long enough for them to find him a stud LT in a couple of years. It will be very intertesting to see how the draft unfolds.
This team needs at least 3 more drafts before it is competitive, the DL can wait IMO but protecting Stafford cannot.
Well, getting a LT isn't going to automatically prevent Stafford from being injured. Backus has sucked since we've drafted him and as far as I can remember, we haven't had a QB suffer a significant injury because of him during his tenure. Not saying that it'll never happen though. Should also mention, QB's are protected now more than ever by the league. Anyways, LT is definitely a need but so is LG and RG too. I think it's just a matter of Mayhew, Schwartz, and Linehan finding an LT that catches their eye, and making their move to get him. Don't draft a LT just to say you drafted a Left Tackle.

Anyone know what the cap hit would be if we cut Backus?

Scotty D
10-27-2009, 12:45 AM
do you think we can make a case to the league to get compensatory picks for Millen's tenure?

noondog
10-27-2009, 08:54 AM
do you think we can make a case to the league to get compensatory picks for Millen's tenure?


Hilarious, yet a legitmiate question.

Iamcanadian
10-27-2009, 09:59 AM
Well, getting a LT isn't going to automatically prevent Stafford from being injured. Backus has sucked since we've drafted him and as far as I can remember, we haven't had a QB suffer a significant injury because of him during his tenure. Not saying that it'll never happen though. Should also mention, QB's are protected now more than ever by the league. Anyways, LT is definitely a need but so is LG and RG too. I think it's just a matter of Mayhew, Schwartz, and Linehan finding an LT that catches their eye, and making their move to get him. Don't draft a LT just to say you drafted a Left Tackle.

Anyone know what the cap hit would be if we cut Backus?

Guards are not anywhere near as important as a LT is in pass protection. RDE's are the most feared pass rushers in the NFL along with OLB's in a 3-4 defense. It is the LT's responsibility to neutralize them. Getting a solid LT just lowers the odds considerably of your QB getting hurt.
Of course I agree that a LT has to be worth the pick otherwise you pass on one but I think there are a couple of top 10 types in this year's draft and I think they will get a long hard look by Detroit. Sure we are desperate for DL help as well but you can only do so much each draft to improve your team, one draft isn't going to turn this team around even remotely. So the team must have a plan to move forward and sometimes that plan's 1st priority is to protect a young franchise QB. I don't think it is a sure thing either way as to which direction we go in, both positions have to be looked at carefully with an awful lot riding on which choices they make. Fans may want a DT first because they see a huge hole on the team there but they are all assuming that Stafford remains healthy which in football is a huge question mark if your LT is mediocre. Hopefully Detroit has an actual plan of action which is sound otherwise the job won't get done.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-27-2009, 10:49 AM
[QUOTE

Anyone know what the cap hit would be if we cut Backus?[/QUOTE]

Backus salary is 4.9 million for 2010
Signing bonus left is 3.4 million for 2010 and 2011
Roster bonus of 1 million due in 2010

So by cutting Backus we would free up 4.9 million in salary and 1 million of roster bonus we won't have to pay but have 3.4 million of dead money due to the signing bonus. Savings of 2.5 million

Backus' cap number if we don't cut him, 8.7 million in 2010

This is the first year to get a savings to cut Backus, he's done as a Lion, unless they cut him and he resigns for cheap to play LG. Not worth 8.7 million. He's not worth the 7.2 million we are giving him this year either unfortunately.

I'd sign Backus for 1 million to play LG/provide depth at LT in case our new stud LT gets hurt or just go with the a youth movement at LG from the draft. However, we won't be looking at guard until later most likely but you never know with the BPA strategy.

WMD
10-27-2009, 03:35 PM
Anyone know what the cap hit would be if we cut Backus?

Backus salary is 4.9 million for 2010
Signing bonus left is 3.4 million for 2010 and 2011
Roster bonus of 1 million due in 2010

So by cutting Backus we would free up 4.9 million in salary and 1 million of roster bonus we won't have to pay but have 3.4 million of dead money due to the signing bonus. Savings of 2.5 million

Backus' cap number if we don't cut him, 8.7 million in 2010

This is the first year to get a savings to cut Backus, he's done as a Lion, unless they cut him and he resigns for cheap to play LG. Not worth 8.7 million. He's not worth the 7.2 million we are giving him this year either unfortunately.

I'd sign Backus for 1 million to play LG/provide depth at LT in case our new stud LT gets hurt or just go with the a youth movement at LG from the draft. However, we won't be looking at guard until later most likely but you never know with the BPA strategy.
Woohoo!! Bye Bye Backus!

Prowler
10-27-2009, 08:43 PM
Guards are not anywhere near as important as a LT is in pass protection. RDE's are the most feared pass rushers in the NFL along with OLB's in a 3-4 defense. It is the LT's responsibility to neutralize them. Getting a solid LT just lowers the odds considerably of your QB getting hurt.
Of course I agree that a LT has to be worth the pick otherwise you pass on one but I think there are a couple of top 10 types in this year's draft and I think they will get a long hard look by Detroit. Sure we are desperate for DL help as well but you can only do so much each draft to improve your team, one draft isn't going to turn this team around even remotely. So the team must have a plan to move forward and sometimes that plan's 1st priority is to protect a young franchise QB. I don't think it is a sure thing either way as to which direction we go in, both positions have to be looked at carefully with an awful lot riding on which choices they make. Fans may want a DT first because they see a huge hole on the team there but they are all assuming that Stafford remains healthy which in football is a huge question mark if your LT is mediocre. Hopefully Detroit has an actual plan of action which is sound otherwise the job won't get done.

i am all for a defensive tackle in my posts and sig, but yeah if we drafted Okung I would still be ecstatic. it's probably a smarter plan to go with the LT and follow it up with d line later because of the rediculous depth at DT and schwartz's track record with developing talent. (anything is better than millen/marinelli)

SINCE1978
10-28-2009, 08:29 PM
i am all for a defensive tackle in my posts and sig, but yeah if we drafted Okung I would still be ecstatic. it's probably a smarter plan to go with the LT and follow it up with d line later because of the rediculous depth at DT and schwartz's track record with developing talent. (anything is better than millen/marinelli)

Most likely Detroit is a top 5 pick, right? Okung currently is #5 on my hotness list. (Berry, Suh, McCoy, Mays, Okung)

That said, if 1 of the teams in front decides on a QB and say a Mays or a Suh "slips" to Detroit, Mayhew would take him based on his BPA style of collecting talent. (assuming his power ranking matched mine, not to mention a DT or S is very high on the needs list)

I agree DT depth is fine in this draft. I would also argue LT's are as well if several stud Juniors declare. I imagine there will be a run on LT's late in round 1/early round 2 with guys like Bruce Campbell, Selvish Capers, Anthony Davis, Charles Brown, Ciron Black, Sam Young & Jason Fox jumping off the board. Hopefully we could snag one of them with our #2 pick (Not Young or Black).
Those 7 with Okung, Bulaga & Williams is a serious top 10 to contend with in the first 50 picks! Very impressive.

Ndamukong Suh
Bruce Campbell

OR

Russell Okung
Arthur Jones

Either draft would be a great 1-2 for me. Your thoughts?

Prowler
10-28-2009, 10:25 PM
okung is what logic tells me, but if i were drafting i would go with suh and graham. i believe suh and graham are two can't miss prospects. good playcalling and quarterback recognition offsets line protection. who is bree's left tackle? bushrod? seriously? did they pull him from the porn studio to play football? i think we need better rhythm, weapons, and an overall identity on offense besides 'throw the ball to calvin'. lets teach derrick williams how to catch screen passes and maybe pickup another speed receiver for underneath stuff. get me an offensive genius.

that being said, i will be happy with almost anything the lions do in this next draft.

SINCE1978
10-30-2009, 08:46 PM
Not sure Graham will be there with our #2??

BUT ...

Adrian Clayborn (Iowa) ... Everson Griffen (USC) ... Cameron Heyward (OSU) ... Jerry Hughes (TCU) ... Jermain Cunningham (Florida) ... Jean Pierre-Paul (USF) ... Willie Young (NC St) ... CJ Wilson (ECU) all having HUGE years. I like the DE crop, assuming some of these juniors declare.

BuffaloBillsFan
10-31-2009, 10:09 AM
You Lions fans are great, I've always admired how jovial and loyal you guys are. I'm really pulling for your team, I'd like to see them turn things around. I'm kind of skeptical of drafting DBs in the top 10 (because my team drafted Whitner, oh joy, look how that bull crap panned out.) but... Eric Berry is intriguing to me.
I'd go with:
1st.) Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
2nd.) Ciron Black, LT, LSU
3rd.) Joe McKnight, RB, USC

Something like that, you guys could probably use a ball hawk in your secondary, a left tackle to protect your future and an additional weapon to take pressure off of your future, as well.

Best of luck to you guys, I'm pulling for the Lions.

SINCE1978
10-31-2009, 10:53 AM
You Lions fans are great, I've always admired how jovial and loyal you guys are. I'm really pulling for your team, I'd like to see them turn things around. I'm kind of skeptical of drafting DBs in the top 10 (because my team drafted Whitner, oh joy, look how that bull crap panned out.) but... Eric Berry is intriguing to me.
I'd go with:
1st.) Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
2nd.) Ciron Black, LT, LSU
3rd.) Joe McKnight, RB, USC

Something like that, you guys could probably use a ball hawk in your secondary, a left tackle to protect your future and an additional weapon to take pressure off of your future, as well.

Best of luck to you guys, I'm pulling for the Lions.

Hey Thanks!
Yeah even with the tanking auto industry & corrupt city government we still turn out in droves for our teams here in the D!! Loyalty for sure ... even the sucky ones like the Lion's. That is why we are THE greatest sports town in America!!
Go Red Wings, Tigers, Pistons, Lions, University of Michigan & Michigan State University. Not many cities have the 4 major sports covered (winning recent championships) and 2 rock solid institutions in the metropolitan area. (also winning championships)

Just wait until Schwartz/Mayhew/Lewand turn around the Lions. We are a football crazed town that will see an NFC championship game again in my lifetime. I'm 31 ;o)

Prowler
11-01-2009, 10:59 AM
now that i think about it, maybe kwame kilpatrick could play some o/dline.

cotts1
11-02-2009, 10:43 PM
I still think Berry should be our pick if he's there. He's a game changer like the late Sean Taylor. Players like him don't come around often. I know it's a another "glamor" pick but lets face it, it's not like this team doesn't need help in the secondary. I also happen to think this draft is gonna be deep, especially at OT, DE, and DT. We should be able to get some solid players in round 2 and 3. Mayhew has shown some ability in making good trades. Hopefully he can add another 2nd or 3rd before the draft. Just not sure who would want any of our crappy players....

Silver & Blue
11-02-2009, 10:48 PM
I still think Berry should be our pick if he's there. He's a game changer like the late Sean Taylor. Players like him don't come around often. I know it's a another "glamor" pick but lets face it, it's not like this team doesn't need help in the secondary. I also happen to think this draft is gonna be deep, especially at OT, DE, and DT. We should be able to get some solid players in round 2 and 3. Mayhew has shown some ability in making good trades. Hopefully he can add another 2nd or 3rd before the draft. Just not sure who would want any of our crappy players....

I would love to have Eric Berry. I can only dream of what him and Louis Delmas would do in the secondary. But the Dline is deep this year so we could also get a good Dlinemen in the 2nd round.

Scotty D
11-03-2009, 01:07 AM
I still think Berry should be our pick if he's there. He's a game changer like the late Sean Taylor. Players like him don't come around often. I know it's a another "glamor" pick but lets face it, it's not like this team doesn't need help in the secondary.

I find myself agreeing with this philosophy. I heard he's been playing a lot of CB? I think he would have more value if played CB, but I don't know if hes just a middle of the pack CB and an elite SS.

I'm all about Suh and McCoy, but defensive tackles in the top ten are so risky. I like the point you make of adding an elite SS and they only come around every so often. Its kind of comparable to the Calvin situation. You draft players in the top ten that have special unique abilities that make them different. Thats what we would get with Eric Berry. Thats where you get the "flashy" playmakers. They get paid the big bucks to find players later in the draft. Not relevant but whens the last time we had a good SS? Kenoy Kennedy : / .

But then you have to consider the amount of resources we are putting into one of the least valued positions on defense. We spent a second round on Daniel Bullocks, Gerald Alexander, and most recently Louis Delmas. Now draft a safety top 5? Thats a TONNNNN of premium picks spent on the safety position.

noondog
11-03-2009, 09:20 AM
It is a ton of premium picks being spent on the safety position, but the Bullocks and Alexander picks have to taken with a grain of salt considering the who man making the picks was. I think that the current Lions brass just has to continue with the strategy that they began employing at the last draft and not give any consideration to falied picks from the previous regime.

Having said that, I love Berry and he and Delmas would be a sick safety duo, but I don't know that he would be a better fit for the Lions than Suh/McCoy. We desperately need a better pass rush which would inherently help out our secondary. Conversely, I think that Okung would also be a better pick than Berry at this point as well. Although a QB`s decision making process, plays called minimizing the QB`s time in the pocket, etc would help the O-line, the best waqy to improve the O-line is to add high-end talent to it.

At this point point I`m on the fence as to whether to go D-line or O-line in the first round, but I`d take either over Berry.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-03-2009, 09:40 AM
I find myself agreeing with this philosophy. I heard he's been playing a lot of CB? I think he would have more value if played CB, but I don't know if hes just a middle of the pack CB and an elite SS.

I'm all about Suh and McCoy, but defensive tackles in the top ten are so risky. I like the point you make of adding an elite SS and they only come around every so often. Its kind of comparable to the Calvin situation. You draft players in the top ten that have special unique abilities that make them different. Thats what we would get with Eric Berry. Thats where you get the "flashy" playmakers. They get paid the big bucks to find players later in the draft. Not relevant but whens the last time we had a good SS? Kenoy Kennedy : / .

But then you have to consider the amount of resources we are putting into one of the least valued positions on defense. We spent a second round on Daniel Bullocks, Gerald Alexander, and most recently Louis Delmas. Now draft a safety top 5? Thats a TONNNNN of premium picks spent on the safety position.

True but its kind of like the Calvin situation. We spent a ton of resources on failed WRs before Calvin with one good WR on the roster still in Roy Williams(now Delmas at safety), but still took Calvin because he was BPA and a stud WR. And of course Martz man crush on him. The question is would Berry be far and away BPA over Suh or McCoy or Okung. I don't know if he would, and if he is its not by much. Safeties can make an impact just ask Pittsburgh(Troy Round 1) or the Colts(Sanders Round 2). But of course you don't usually have to use a Round 1 pick to get a stud or even good safety though Berry looks like a sure thing. Ko Simpson,Bullocks healthy or another pick on a safety aren't sure things. Suh looks like a stud sure thing too just like Berry and we do need Dline help just as much as secondary help. Dline could make more of an impact IMO though because an interior pass rush and run stopping is huge. So therefore Suh or McCoy over Berry. Berry vs Okung is a tough call since our D is sooooo atrocious but our investment in QB needs protection. Depends on free agency and depth of LT,DT,CB/S in this draft.

Silver & Blue
11-03-2009, 12:16 PM
True but its kind of like the Calvin situation. We spent a ton of resources on failed WRs before Calvin with one good WR on the roster still in Roy Williams(now Delmas at safety), but still took Calvin because he was BPA and a stud WR. And of course Martz man crush on him. The question is would Berry be far and away BPA over Suh or McCoy or Okung. I don't know if he would, and if he is its not by much. Safeties can make an impact just ask Pittsburgh(Troy Round 1) or the Colts(Sanders Round 2). But of course you don't usually have to use a Round 1 pick to get a stud or even good safety though Berry looks like a sure thing. Ko Simpson,Bullocks healthy or another pick on a safety aren't sure things. Suh looks like a stud sure thing too just like Berry and we do need Dline help just as much as secondary help. Dline could make more of an impact IMO though because an interior pass rush and run stopping is huge. So therefore Suh or McCoy over Berry. Berry vs Okung is a tough call since our D is sooooo atrocious but our investment in QB needs protection. Depends on free agency and depth of LT,DT,CB/S in this draft.

I would be happy with either Berry or Suh at this point. If we take Suh we could pick up someone like Kam Chancellor in the second round to fill the other safety position. I'm not sure what Left Tackles are going to be in free agency this year, but hopefully their are at least a few solid ones we can have a chance at picking up.

cotts1
11-03-2009, 04:42 PM
Berry can play CB, he's a natural safety but he has the speed and agility to play any position in the secondary.

good safeties are so valuable to a defense. Delmas and Berry can both hit with the best of em. It would be hard for teams to break runs outside with those two but they also improve the north-south run defense. Both have at least decent ball skills with Berry having exceptional skills. Safeties are the last line of defense, its good to have a couple who are more than just competent.

I'm not against Suh or McCoy or Okung, I just think Berry has so much more value. He is the best defensive prospect in this draft, He can play multiple positions. No other safety is close to Berry, that includes Taylor Mays. Is Okung that much better than Ciron Black or Charles Brown? Is Suh that much better than Terrence Cody or Arthur Jones? Some of you might say yes, i say no.

Prowler
11-03-2009, 06:22 PM
My Lions Draft Board

1. Suh
2. Okung
3. Berry
4. Everyone Else

2009 GP Solo Ast Total TFL/Yds Sacks-Yds Int BrUp QBH FF BlockKick
Suh, N. 8 28 21 49 13-47 5.0-33 1 7 14 1 2
McCoy 8 15 4 19 12.0-45 3.5-24 0 1 8 1 0

Suh gets the nod for me because his numbers are clearly better against the exact same competition as McCoy. He puts more pressure on QBs, blocks kicks, and has way more pass breakups.

okung gets high marks because i think he's clearly the top of his class. i can't stand ciron black or trent williams. they look like right tackles or works in progress. one player can make a huge difference for an offensive line. it all starts at LT.

Everyone knows what Berry brings to the table. He's leading that Tennessee defense and is currently supplementing his outstanding talent with great coaching from Monte Kiffen. it would be great to add an ed reed playmaker to a team that once again has DEWAYNE WHITE tied for the team lead with 1 interception!!!

the way i see it, these are our only 3 choices(4 if we can trade down). I fully agree with all of these picks and would gladly give us an A grade if we drafted any of these guys. i personally have my doubts as to whether i think the lions would actually draft suh since schwartz's additions at DT have been 6-2 345lbs/6-4 329lbs/6-2 325lbs. the current titan starting dlinemen are only 290-295ish, but i believe we are the #1 blitzing team in the league right now and it would be genius to employ 2 2 gap type tackles to help disguise our blitzes and plug the run. but however genius it would be, we already have the beef for NT, so suh would still be a great fit. the money involved with a top 3-5 pick almost pushes berry out of the picture. okung is the wise investment for that kind of money because of the DT depth of this draft. but because its not my money i still have to go with suh because considering all 3 players equally...we have to build from the inside out and our defense can not stop anything. we need to stop teams from the first line of defense and suh is the man to accomplish this.

SINCE1978
11-03-2009, 06:43 PM
My Lions Draft Board

1. Suh
2. Okung
3. Berry
4. Everyone Else

2009 GP Solo Ast Total TFL/Yds Sacks-Yds Int BrUp QBH FF BlockKick
Suh, N. 8 28 21 49 13-47 5.0-33 1 7 14 1 2
McCoy 8 15 4 19 12.0-45 3.5-24 0 1 8 1 0

Suh gets the nod for me because his numbers are clearly better against the exact same competition as McCoy. He puts more pressure on QBs, blocks kicks, and has way more pass breakups.

okung gets high marks because i think he's clearly the top of his class. i can't stand ciron black or trent williams. they look like right tackles or works in progress. one player can make a huge difference for an offensive line. it all starts at LT.

Everyone knows what Berry brings to the table. He's leading that Tennessee defense and is currently supplementing his outstanding talent with great coaching from Monte Kiffen. it would be great to add an ed reed playmaker to a team that once again has DEWAYNE WHITE tied for the team lead with 1 interception!!!

the way i see it, these are our only 3 choices(4 if we can trade down). I fully agree with all of these picks and would gladly give us an A grade if we drafted any of these guys. i personally have my doubts as to whether i think the lions would actually draft suh since schwartz's additions at DT have been 6-2 345lbs/6-4 329lbs/6-2 325lbs. the current titan starting dlinemen are only 290-295ish, but i believe we are the #1 blitzing team in the league right now and it would be genius to employ 2 2 gap type tackles to help disguise our blitzes and plug the run. but however genius it would be, we already have the beef for NT, so suh would still be a great fit. the money involved with a top 3-5 pick almost pushes berry out of the picture. okung is the wise investment for that kind of money because of the DT depth of this draft. but because its not my money i still have to go with suh because considering all 3 players equally...we have to build from the inside out and our defense can not stop anything. we need to stop teams from the first line of defense and suh is the man to accomplish this.

I like your specific defensive strategy points. Like you, I am also very HIGH on Suh, Berry & McCoy right now for Detroit.

Anyway, just looking at some numbers from last years draft and thought I would share since I found them sooo staggering! Hypothetically say Detroit is in the #4 slot ... 2009's draft awarded that position 34m guaranteed on a 60m contract, while pick #36 (#4 of rd 2) was awarded 2.925m guaranteed on a 4.908 m contract! That's a difference of 31m in guaranteed jack ... whoa?!?!

Like you said (and I agree) DT is very deep in this class. Do you feel Suh/McCoy at #4 are that much more impact players from a financial aspect, than say an Arthur Jones or Mike Neal at #36?

It's not our money though ...

Prowler
11-03-2009, 07:07 PM
its almost too difficult to do these because we're not the ones actually picking. i'm pretty much just focusing on one guy. i don't know if i trust detroit to handle something a kin to throwing 7 darts at 7 different moving boards. with that said, yes i believe that okung is the most logical choice for them when trying to hit a layered cost-effective draft strategy.


just thinking about these 3 guys makes me feel like i'm in the matrix. okung is my heavy machine gun, berry is my mp5, and suh is my rocket launcher. all 3 are pretty useful in a fight.

Iamcanadian
11-03-2009, 11:16 PM
I like your specific defensive strategy points. Like you, I am also very HIGH on Suh, Berry & McCoy right now for Detroit.

Anyway, just looking at some numbers from last years draft and thought I would share since I found them sooo staggering! Hypothetically say Detroit is in the #4 slot ... 2009's draft awarded that position 34m guaranteed on a 60m contract, while pick #36 (#4 of rd 2) was awarded 2.925m guaranteed on a 4.908 m contract! That's a difference of 31m in guaranteed jack ... whoa?!?!

Like you said (and I agree) DT is very deep in this class. Do you feel Suh/McCoy at #4 are that much more impact players from a financial aspect, than say an Arthur Jones or Mike Neal at #36?

It's not our money though ...

Who the hell cares about money vs talent, certainly not the fans who want a winner. That equates to 5.? million per year in salary out of a salary cap of 120 million dollars, hardly significant especially on our team. We can afford that salary for at least 15 starters and still pay the scrubs.
Let the GM worry about the significance just get the best impact player you can which is maybe 8 to 10 per team. paying them 5 million a year isn't going to break the bank.
The vast majority of impact players come in the top 15 picks of the draft with the top 10 producing a pretty high ratio. Round 2 guys tend to be sure starters but maybe not impact players at least not in the same ratio as the top 15 picks. The further you go down the draft board, the less likely you are to not be an impact player. You can find an impact player in any round of course, but the odds are pretty high and teams don't draft thinking they will find one later in the draft. A starter sure but not often an impact player. That's why trading down is risky. Cleveland traded down with the Jets who moved up to #5 and took Sanchez. Does anybody here think the OC Cleveland got in exchange will match what Sanchez does for the Jets, I don't think so.
Basically you can only trade out of the top 5 if there is a QB available that some team rates as a top 5 prospect otherwise you are stuck with the pick anyways and trading back is near impossible.
If we have the #4 pick, we will have to take somebody almost for sure as top 5 trade downs are rare. All I think is important is that we draft a player that high who plays a primary position on your football team and not a secondary position. On offense that includes a QB, RB, and a LT, on Schwartz's defense, a DE, DT, or a CB, these are the primary positions worth that high a pick. As long as we draft one of those positions it is worth the money. I prefer a LT to protect Stafford but any of those others would be OK in my books.

SINCE1978
11-04-2009, 08:43 PM
Who the hell cares about money vs talent, certainly not the fans who want a winner. That equates to 5.? million per year in salary out of a salary cap of 120 million dollars, hardly significant especially on our team. We can afford that salary for at least 15 starters and still pay the scrubs.
Let the GM worry about the significance just get the best impact player you can which is maybe 8 to 10 per team. paying them 5 million a year isn't going to break the bank.
The vast majority of impact players come in the top 15 picks of the draft with the top 10 producing a pretty high ratio. Round 2 guys tend to be sure starters but maybe not impact players at least not in the same ratio as the top 15 picks. The further you go down the draft board, the less likely you are to not be an impact player. You can find an impact player in any round of course, but the odds are pretty high and teams don't draft thinking they will find one later in the draft. A starter sure but not often an impact player. That's why trading down is risky. Cleveland traded down with the Jets who moved up to #5 and took Sanchez. Does anybody here think the OC Cleveland got in exchange will match what Sanchez does for the Jets, I don't think so.
Basically you can only trade out of the top 5 if there is a QB available that some team rates as a top 5 prospect otherwise you are stuck with the pick anyways and trading back is near impossible.
If we have the #4 pick, we will have to take somebody almost for sure as top 5 trade downs are rare. All I think is important is that we draft a player that high who plays a primary position on your football team and not a secondary position. On offense that includes a QB, RB, and a LT, on Schwartz's defense, a DE, DT, or a CB, these are the primary positions worth that high a pick. As long as we draft one of those positions it is worth the money. I prefer a LT to protect Stafford but any of those others would be OK in my books.

Your numbers were a little fuzzy saying at first 15 starters paid out @ 5M ea would work, then switched to 8-10 impact players? I got confused.
I never mentioned trading down either?
Not sure were that entered the discussion.

Anyway, $money$ is very important. So are the numbers. Detroit's #1 pick (starting with the Backus draft in 2001) has averaged #8 overall (7.66 actually). That's excluding 1b picks Kevin Jones & Brandon Pettirgrew, I just used the #1 overall pick ... so of those 9 players, only 5 are on the team currently. So using your theory of "impact" players being top 15 picks, we should have 9 but instead have 5 players that qualify (Harrington, Williams, Williams, Rogers not with the team) I would argue of those 5 remaining players, only Stafford & Johnson are impact players. Backus, Cherilus & Sims I would argue are only average for their positions. Certainly not Pro Bowl caliber play out of any of the 3 who were on the average, top 15 picks. "Impact" pick to use your term. So in 9 years of "impact" picks (averaging 8th overall) we have 2 players of impact by my definition! Did we get what we paid for? That is clearly a bad return on investment!
Plenty of other teams (see New England, NY Giants) have struck gold in later rounds. They have the scouts, the smart GM/owner who does not overpay and yet they compete for play-off spots. Amazing how watching the bottom line and being smart about who makes the personnel decisions can equal success. Clearly Detroit needs to steal that page from the successful NFL franchise manual ;o) They literally spent 9 years continually overpaying for average players, culminating in our 0-16 debacle last year.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-05-2009, 10:06 AM
Its still really 50/50 in the top 10 for a true stud
1998-2008 11 drafts, top 10 picks each year
3 Categrories Worth the Money, Decent but not Great, Bust

53 Worth the Money Studs
Jake Long,Matt Ryan,Dorsey,Ellis,Keith Rivers,Mayo,Calvin,Joe Thomas,Landry,Levi Brown,Adrian Peterson,Mario Willaims,DBrick,AJ Hawk,Ronnie Brown, Antrell Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Braylon Edwards(production plus picks),Eli,Fitzgerald,Phillip Rivers,Sean Taylor,Winslow,Roy Williams(production plus picks),Dunta Robinson,Carson,Andre Johnson,Newman,Jordan Gross,Kevin Williams,Suggs,Peppers,Jammer,McKinnie,Henderson,V ick,Tomlinson,Seymour,Arrington,Samuels,Jamal Lewis,Plax,Urlacher,McNabb,Edge James,Ricky Williams,Holt,Champ,Chris McCalister,Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Grant Wistrom,Greg Ellis,Fred Taylor

Decent players 16
Kyle Turley for NO,Duane Starks,Justin Smith,Andre Carter(for SF),Levi Jones,Roy Williams Dallas,Cadillac,Reggie Bush,Thomas Davis,Whitner,Ernie Sims,DeAngelo Hall,Leftiwch,McFadden,Okoye,Tedd Ginn

41 Busts(some could change)
Gholston,Chris Long,Derrick Harvey,Gaines Adams,Jamaal Anderson,Jamarcus Russell,Alex Smith,Benson,Pacman,Williams,Mike Williams,Vince Young,Huff,Matt Leinart(?),Leonard Davis for Zona,Gerrard Wareen,Terrell,Koren Robinson,Jammall Reyonold,Carr,Harrington,Mike Williams,Ryan Sims,Dwayne Robertson,John Sullivan,Charlie Rogers,Gallery,Reggie Williams,Courtney Brown,Warrick,Simon,Thomas Jones for Zona,Travis Taylor,Couch,Akili Smith,David Boston,Claiborne,Leaf,Wadsworht,Enis

62% you get a decent player, 50/50(48%) on getting a stud. I'll do picks 10-20 and picks 20-30 another time and compare

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-05-2009, 10:32 AM
Picks 11-20

43% stud, 65% at least decent
Good Worth Money: 48
Tre Thomas,Brooking,Takeo Spikes,McFarland,Kearse,Woody,Dan Morgan,Stroud,Santana Moss,Hutchinson,Casey Hampton,Shaun Ellis,John Abraham,Julian Peterson,Pennington,Shaun Alexander,Freeney,Shockey,Haynewsworth,Trufant,Ty Warren,Polamalu,Big Ben,Vilma,Lee Evans,Tommie Harris,Shawn Andrews,DJ Williams,Will Smith,Vernon Carey,Ware,Merriman,Jamaal Brown,Cutler,Ngata,Bunkly,Greenway,Willis,Lynch,Re vis,Timmons,Leon Hall,Michael Griffen,Clady,Chris Williams,Brandon Albert,Flacoo,Otah

Decent: 24
McKelvin,Jonatan Stewart,RodgersCromartie,Cherilus,Talib,Jarvis Moss,Aaron Ross,Cromartie,hali,Thomas Daivs,Derrick Johnson,Barron,Marcus Spears,Calvin pace,Javon Walker,Backus,Archuleta(for Rams),Janikowski,Bubba Franks,Daunte,John Tait,Pettigout,Kevin Dyson,Brian Simmons

Busts 38
Carriker,Harrell,Michael Clayton,Udeze,Wimbley,Tye Hill,Jason Allen,Carpenter,Travis Johnson,Pollcack,Erasmus James,Kennedy,Haynes,McDougle,Bryant Johnson,Kyle Boller,George Foster,Wendell Bryant,Stallworth,Will Green,Buchanon,Duckett,Lelie,Damione lewis,Walker,Gardner,McNown,Troy Edwards,Stinchcom,Ekuban,Dayne,O Neal,Stockar McDougle,Jason peter,Anthony Simmons,Robert Edwards,Vonnie Holiday,Terry Fair

So slightly less studs but more decent players

SINCE1978
11-07-2009, 06:24 AM
Those are NFL averages. We are talking the Detroit Lions! arguably the worst run organization in football if not ALL sports! It has been a grim litany if vile we the fans have had to deal with since the days of Sanders, Spielman & Blades ... except for that one hot start with Kitna's 4,000 yd season a few years ago we have picked in the top 1/3 of the draft for a decade! (Oh by the way the reward for that later pick yielded us the mighty Gosder Cherilus wink, wink) In a league known for parody, we have missed the parody bus in the D. Teams like Arizona & Tampa Bay & Tennessee & Seattle have all risen up from the valley and seen glory atop the mountain. Not Detroit. We continue to draft high and miss (see M. Williams, Harrington, Rogers, Stanton, Alama Francis, Bullocks, Alexander, Dizon) so we pay HIGH and yield LOW resulting in a below average product on the field leading to less & less fans in the seats.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-07-2009, 05:59 PM
I would like to put my vote in for Patrick Peterson for our first round pick in 2011. He has been dominate against Bama tonight.

SINCE1978
11-08-2009, 04:50 PM
WE NEED A KICK OFF EXPERT! Hanson is accurate with field goals for the most part, but just does not have the BOOM he used to off the tee 10 years ago.

I know, it's a little thing ... but Detroit may consider drafting a late round punter that doubles as your kick off expert or something like that. Field position is so key, especially with the coverage woes of their special teams.
A 6th rd pick on HUGE legged 22 yr old would help that 3rd dimension of special teams since Hanson does not put it into the end zone.

Watching Grankowski (sp?) for New England kick off today, the guy almost kicked 2 field goals from the kick off and minimized Ted Ginn's explosiveness for Miami.

StorminNorman
11-13-2009, 12:31 PM
While I hate to take a peek at the draft this early in, if I had to throw out some picks for Detroit it would be 1st R Berry, 2nd R Cody, 3rd R Kyle Wilson CB-Boise.

Iamcanadian
11-15-2009, 05:15 PM
I reiterate, I believe Detroit will be forced to use their 1st pick on a LT if one ends up rated where we draft. If Stafford doesn't get more protection and continually gets roughed around like he was today, he won't last 3 years in pro football. He simply must be given more protection.

P-L
11-15-2009, 05:39 PM
The line actually protected well in the latter part of the second quarter and most of the third quarter. It's no coincidence that is when Stafford did most of his damage. The protection was pretty brutal though early on and in the fourth quarter.

Prowler
11-15-2009, 06:46 PM
congratulations is in order. we are now the worst team in the league again and are on our way towards having the #1 draft pick! atleast this way we can have our contract negotiated before the draft.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-15-2009, 07:39 PM
Congrats to needing basically every position also. The line is terrible, the wide receivers cannot catch, and the running backs cannot explode for big runs.

I can't believe how many drops there have been this season. Even Calvin, he dropped two catches that would have been first downs. The lack of talent is truly amazing.

P-L
11-15-2009, 09:38 PM
Calvin's hands have always been suspect. But he's like TO a couple of years ago. He's so good that you live with the drops.

tblain1
11-16-2009, 10:55 AM
congratulations is in order. we are now the worst team in the league again and are on our way towards having the #1 draft pick! atleast this way we can have our contract negotiated before the draft.

I still look at Cleveland and think, "at least we aren't THAT bad."

There were moments in that Minnesota game where I thought we looked like a real NFL team. Not a good one mind you...but a real one.

tblain1
11-16-2009, 11:02 AM
I reiterate, I believe Detroit will be forced to use their 1st pick on a LT if one ends up rated where we draft. If Stafford doesn't get more protection and continually gets roughed around like he was today, he won't last 3 years in pro football. He simply must be given more protection.

BTW, who was matched up against Ray Edwards on Sunday? Was it Gosder or Backus? I thought he was going to leave the game with Stafford's head. From what I saw, it looked like Jared Allen was mostly contained but I was in and out of the game.

StorminNorman
11-16-2009, 10:43 PM
Bachus has played well this year, actually. I would prefer to draft a LT prospect in the third round or so. Perhaps a player we start at guard and kick out to tackle as he becomes more comfortable in pass protection.

I don't see a tackle I would feel good picking at the top part of the draft.

I really like Berry and Delmas together. Berry could ever kick to nickel if needed putting Simpson in a safety. Having two tremendously talented safeties really opens up our potential defensively.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
BTW, who was matched up against Ray Edwards on Sunday? Was it Gosder or Backus? I thought he was going to leave the game with Stafford's head. From what I saw, it looked like Jared Allen was mostly contained but I was in and out of the game.

Gosder needs to get his **** together.

Peterman is now hurt, might as well give Loper another shot. Whats the deal with him. I'd rather have Loper playing than Jansen.

Backus is playing mediocre. Not terrible but not good. He is due 8.5 million next year. He's done as a Lion unless they cut him to save money and he resigns IMO. Resign him for 1-2 million and try him at LG and a very good backup in case our new LT goes down.

Raiola same old story. Decent but barely decent. Undersized, making some stupid penalty mistakes this year, run push not that great.

I could see Okung but I really want Suh. We'll see where we pick though after this Browns classic game.

Scotty D
11-17-2009, 11:15 AM
Bachus has played well this year, actually. I would prefer to draft a LT prospect in the third round or so. Perhaps a player we start at guard and kick out to tackle as he becomes more comfortable in pass protection.

I don't see a tackle I would feel good picking at the top part of the draft.

I really like Berry and Delmas together. Berry could ever kick to nickel if needed putting Simpson in a safety. Having two tremendously talented safeties really opens up our potential defensively.

I don't want to draft a SS with a top 5 pick. Look at the top salaries for the position. Not to mention its close to being one of the least valuable positions on defense. I have faith that they could find a starting caliber SS in a lot of places, but not where we are picking.

I'm leaning towards Okung, Suh, McCoy or trying to trade down for someone looking for a QB. I know its cliche for this time of year but we may really need to try and trade down hard. With the total lack of talent on this team we are going to need more picks. Hopefully free agency can be fruitful.

StorminNorman
11-18-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't want to draft a SS with a top 5 pick. Look at the top salaries for the position. Not to mention its close to being one of the least valuable positions on defense. I have faith that they could find a starting caliber SS in a lot of places, but not where we are picking.

I'm leaning towards Okung, Suh, McCoy or trying to trade down for someone looking for a QB. I know its cliche for this time of year but we may really need to try and trade down hard. With the total lack of talent on this team we are going to need more picks. Hopefully free agency can be fruitful.

I don't like Okung, Suh is likely gone by our pick and I am not high on McCoy. I think a defensive back end with Delmas and Berry is very enticing. Tennessee's defense was anchored by two Pro Bowl safeties and both Berry and Delmas have fluid enough hips to cover man on man when situations call for it.

Prowler
11-18-2009, 12:53 PM
as of this moment we are actually the #1 pick. 4 teams have 1 win and we are 1-7 in conference games. i can't wait for a rookie salary cap, the idea of paying a safety for #1 pick money makes me sick.

Scotty D
11-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I don't like Okung, Suh is likely gone by our pick and I am not high on McCoy. I think a defensive back end with Delmas and Berry is very enticing. Tennessee's defense was anchored by two Pro Bowl safeties and both Berry and Delmas have fluid enough hips to cover man on man when situations call for it.

Tennessee's defense also had Kyle Vandon Bosch and Albert Haynesworth on the Dline. BTW KVB (sp?) is a free agent this off-season. I"m really hoping he doesn't re-sign.

StorminNorman
11-18-2009, 03:22 PM
as of this moment we are actually the #1 pick. 4 teams have 1 win and we are 1-7 in conference games. i can't wait for a rookie salary cap, the idea of paying a safety for #1 pick money makes me sick.

Conference games don't mean anything. All that matters is record. Tie breakers are settled by coin flips.

Tennessee's defense also had Kyle Vandon Bosch and Albert Haynesworth on the Dline. BTW KVB (sp?) is a free agent this off-season. I"m really hoping he doesn't re-sign.

Albert Haynesworth missed several games and never missed a beat. Having two safeties with cornerback like speed and coverage skills that deliver massive hits would be a terrific way to escalate this defense.

Scotty D
11-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Tie breakers are settled by strength of schedule. We should have a pretty strong percentage I imagine playing the AFC North, but maybe the Browns would bring it down a bit.

P-L
11-18-2009, 03:48 PM
as of this moment we are actually the #1 pick. 4 teams have 1 win and we are 1-7 in conference games. i can't wait for a rookie salary cap, the idea of paying a safety for #1 pick money makes me sick.
Strength of schedule is the first tiebreaker. We actually have the #3 pick if the season ended today.

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

WMD
11-18-2009, 03:55 PM
If Cleveland wins this week, wouldn't that shoot us up to #1?

P-L
11-18-2009, 03:59 PM
It all depends on the schedules. The strength of schedule changes every week until the season is completed. If Cleveland wins, we could still end up at #1, #2, or #3.

tblain1
11-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Conference games don't mean anything. All that matters is record. Tie breakers are settled by coin flips.



Albert Haynesworth missed several games and never missed a beat. Having two safeties with cornerback like speed and coverage skills that deliver massive hits would be a terrific way to escalate this defense.

Not if we have a defensive line that can't put pressure on the QB. A great secondary doesn't look so great if you can't pressure the QB into making a bad throw. Also a great secondary doesn't directly help us stop the run... I've heard the theory that you can "stack the box" but I'll still take a great DL that can hold up the RB behind the line over great cover CB/S.

BuffaloBillsFan
11-18-2009, 08:35 PM
Hey, I just wanted to drop by and let you all know that Dick Jauron was fired by Ralph Wilson. Rejoice, rejoice.. I sympathize with what Lions fans have had to go through with Jauron, I'm so glad he is gone.

SINCE1978
11-18-2009, 09:25 PM
I heard some dialogue the other day and it took me some time to process it but wanted to share ... b/c it sort of makes sense. Before I share, I must add my personal opinion is to build in the trenches and build a blue collar D fitting of this town FIRST & FOREMOST. However, teams like Indy & NE (extreme cases) build pretty much offensive powerhouses and say score more points than us, right? With that being said, the Lions have so many holes on D right now next years draft won't solve it. maybe on O they are only like 3 players away from being way more competitive in the NFC North. So what if they solidify 1 side of the ball with the top 1/2 of this draft and go O? (it was hard to type that actually):

Let's say ...
1) Russell Okung LT OSU
2) Jahvid Best RB Cal
3) Jordan Shipley WR Texas

We become like the Cincinnati teams from 07 08 that scored a bunch but did not have the D to stop people yet. Key word yet, b/c those Bengals are no joke anymore. They have since addressed that side of the ball in the past couple of drafts with grabbing defenders like Ndukwe, Hall, Maulalga, Rivers, Johnson etc and are 7-2 and in first place!
Address offense this draft then 2011 get the defenders and really compete.
Thoughts?
(this is probably going to get murdered but I'm trying to think outside the box)