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View Full Version : Which rookie season was more impressive: Roethlisberger 04 or Ryan 08?


d34ng3l021
05-05-2009, 12:21 AM
Might as well start off random offseason discussions.

Who, in your opinion, had the more impressive rookie season and why?

Big Ben was drafted to the 6-10 Steelers and led them to a 13-0 record as a starter in the regular season while posting these statistics: 196/295, 66%, 2641 yards, 8.9 YPA, 17 TDs, 11 INTs.

Matt Ryan was drafted by the 4-12 Falcons and led them to an 11-5 record while having these stats: 265/434, 61%, 3440 yards, 7.9 YPA, 16 TDs, 11 INTs.

Of course, the W-L record and statistics don't mean everything; I would take into account the environment they were brought into, how much they were relied on, etc.

The Unseen
05-05-2009, 12:26 AM
Good question. I'll go with Matt Ryan, since Ben Roethlisberger had a better defense to back him that year. Also, Ryan threw alot more and had more yards.

HawkeyeFan
05-05-2009, 12:27 AM
Don't get me wrong, Big Ben put up some good numbers.

But the more impressive is Matt Ryan, he was brought into a team with a Rookie Head Coach, and all the pressure was on him. He didn't have near the team around him that Big Ben had, and still succeeded while being one of the most fun Quarterbacks, well, players at that to watch.

Matt Ryan.

BlindSite
05-05-2009, 12:28 AM
I think the Atlanta Falcons turn around from what they were to what they became was more impressive than the Steelers turnaround.

However, I think the two were in different situations at different times and the two can't necessarily be compared, but without the running games, offensive lines, receivers and defensive play neither would've been successful and both probably receive more credit than they're necessarily due.

That's not to say Ryan and Roethlisberger weren't impressive as rookies, but they weren't the sole reason for their teams' turn arounds.

Don Vito
05-05-2009, 12:29 AM
Matt Ryan in my opinion. Ryan had a great ground game behind him, but he was depended on a lot more than Roethlisberger was as a rookie because the Steelers had a much better defense and supporting cast.

Caddy
05-05-2009, 12:32 AM
Based purely on statistics, Big Ben probably had a better rookie season despite completing/attempting a lower number of passes than Matt Ryan.

If it is based moreso on surroundings then I think the case could be made for Ryan. Ryan had a rookie GM/rookie head coach as well as a sub-standard defense to work with. Combine that with the fact that Ryan had all the pressure in the world placed upon him to succeed and I think he just edges out Big Ben who had it a little easier his rookie season.

jsa230
05-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Big Ben had an outstanding defense, they were 15-1 iirc so you could very easily give this to roethlisberger. Ryan had the better season but roethlisberger had the better team. I will give it to Ryan just because of the Chicago game but the stats don't lie.

PoopSandwich
05-05-2009, 12:49 AM
Matt Ryan... Ben was more of a game manager in his first year (A very good one at that) but Matt Ryan played lights out last year.

Both had an amazing run game, roethlisberger had a better defense.

LonghornsLegend
05-05-2009, 12:52 AM
This is very easy for me and I thought it should be for others, when you have the Steelers defense it makes everything you do so much easier...Matt Ryan had to win alot more games then Ben was asked to, threw the ball more, and the supporting cast was alot weaker top to bottom.

OregonDucks
05-05-2009, 01:01 AM
Get a poll set up. I would say ryan because he had to play with atlanta and brought them up from basically ground zero to playoffs.

Mr. Hero
05-05-2009, 01:49 AM
Matt Ryan, Big Ben had success with a team Tommy Maddox had had success with, Matt Ryan had success with a legit worst place team that got some major contributions their offseason additions.

BaLLiN
05-05-2009, 06:24 AM
Matt Ryan, he did not have the amazing defense that Ben had to wipe away his mistakes.

Shane P. Hallam
05-05-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm a Steeler fan, and I say Ryan. Now, Roethlisberger was very impressive to win how he did, but Ryan carried his team at points, something Roethlisberger hasn't done until the past 2-3 years.

vikes_28
05-05-2009, 08:41 AM
I remember when Big Ben was a rookie, he only threw 25ish passes a game. He was asked to do a lot less then Matt Ryan. Ryan didn't really have anything to work with either. Ben had an amazing defense, and Bettis. Ryan had a couple lower profile wide recievers (at least they were when he came in).

Edit: Matt Ryan also started 16 games.

Halsey
05-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Matt Ryan's first pass was a TD. Yeah, it was against a high school defense, but so what. It was still amazing the way he made the read and threw such a perfect strike that a not particularly fast possession WR was able to stay in full stride and go the distance with.

AJHawk50
05-05-2009, 10:46 AM
I feel like it would be Matt Ryan of last year, especially given the whole Vick replacement kind of thing going on in Atlanta and bringing them back to the playoffs.

Menardo75
05-05-2009, 12:55 PM
I would have to say Matt Ryan. Big ben got kind of lucky he came into the draft when the Steelers had their one down year of this decade, and landed on an already very good team that had injury problems. Ryan came into a team that was in more turmoil then we have maybe ever seen and led them to the playoffs.

TitleTown088
05-05-2009, 01:16 PM
Matt Ryan's first pass was a TD.

And he threw a whoppin' 15 of them after that. Count me in the group ( probably the only member) that says Matt Ryans rookie year is one of the most overrated " accomplishments" ever.

d34ng3l021
05-05-2009, 01:34 PM
And he threw a whoppin' 15 of them after that. Count me in the group ( probably the only member) that says Matt Ryans rookie year is one of the most overrated " accomplishments" ever.

Finally, something worth debating. Why do you think so?

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 02:18 PM
I agree with a lot of the Ryan stuff, and Ben definitely had a lot of things set up for him to perform magnificently and get all those wins, but Ben also won a playoff game and that is the clincher IMO.

T-RICH49
05-05-2009, 02:28 PM
This is very easy for me and I thought it should be for others, when you have the Steelers defense it makes everything you do so much easier...Matt Ryan had to win alot more games then Ben was asked to, threw the ball more, and the supporting cast was alot weaker top to bottom.

agree Ryan is much more impressive IMO

thetedginnshow
05-05-2009, 02:41 PM
I think Ryan gets a bit more credit for some of those wins than he should, but just watching them play, he certainly looked better than Roethlisberger.

whatadai
05-05-2009, 02:42 PM
I agree with a lot of the Ryan stuff, and Ben definitely had a lot of things set up for him to perform magnificently and get all those wins, but Ben also won a playoff game and that is the clincher IMO.
Would that make Flacco's rookie season better than both?

TitleTown088
05-05-2009, 03:08 PM
Finally, something worth debating. Why do you think so?

First of all, I don't mean to insinuate he's a bad QB or that he's going to be a bad QB. He did a fine job, but I hear people more excited about him than a ****** in a room full of bouncy balls. Some like to the he single-handedly led that team to the playoffs. While he did have some nice plays like at the end of that Chicago game, their success was largely due to the running game coaching, and defense. Ryan did a good job not screwing up too often. Put aside the fact that he's a rookie, and look at 16TDs, 11 INTs, and just over 3500 yards passing. Is that something you would really correlate with a QB " leading" his team to the playoffs? Dare i use the dreaded " game manger"?

He had a solid to good rookie season. Nothing off the wall spectacular.

Smooth Criminal
05-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Both were asked to not lose games. Both played like **** in the playoffs. The reason Ryan has more passes is cause his teams were losing more often.

I would say I was more impressed with Ryan because he had all the pressure of being thrown in immidiately, but it might have been even harder for Ben getting put in after preparing to be the backup.

Gotta remember the wins Ben put up too. He beat the Pats and Eagles, both undefeated at the time. Both made the superbowl.

FlyingElvis
05-05-2009, 03:30 PM
First of all, I can't figure out exactly what may be in that "room full of bouncy balls" and it's killing me.


Second, I'm going to say Ryan. Both teams had similar situations offensively with a good ground game and decent WRs. Ben was not asked to do as much, imo, but that's not a mark against him. For me, the deciding factor has to be the "extenauting circumstances" surrounding Ryan.

1. He was the #1 QB drafted. That carries much more pressure than Ben faced as the #3 QB, especially given the major focus on Eli in NYC.

2. The mess that was the post Vick Falcons franchise. The Falcons were expected to have a terrible O-line, D-line and D-backfield. Add in a rookie coach and everything was expected to be terrible for Atlanta.

The entire team/staff/franchise deserves credit for the turn-around, but those factors give Ryan the edge, imo.

CC.SD
05-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Would that make Flacco's rookie season better than both?

Nah, I'm using the playoff win as my tiebreaker, not the only factor.

AJHawk50
05-05-2009, 04:58 PM
Matt Ryan was a good team leader. I by no means saw every Falcons game last year, but from what I DID see...in particular the game vs. the Chicago Bears. That was pure poise for a rookie. That shows a lot.

whatadai
05-05-2009, 05:30 PM
Nah, I'm using the playoff win as my tiebreaker, not the only factor.

I don't think it makes such a great tiebreaker. Both players did horrible in their first year playoff games if I remember Roethlisberger's correctly. The only reason the Steelers won those playoff games were because of their defense.

If I remember correctly, Ryan actually did better than Roethlisberger in their first playoff games while playing a much superior pass defense too.

the decider13
05-05-2009, 06:21 PM
Matt Ryan...Big Ben was throwing to Plax and Ward, with Slick Willy running the ball. Overall, the entire steeler team around Ben was better.

d34ng3l021
05-05-2009, 09:21 PM
First of all, I don't mean to insinuate he's a bad QB or that he's going to be a bad QB. He did a fine job, but I hear people more excited about him than a ****** in a room full of bouncy balls. Some like to the he single-handedly led that team to the playoffs. While he did have some nice plays like at the end of that Chicago game, their success was largely due to the running game coaching, and defense. Ryan did a good job not screwing up too often. Put aside the fact that he's a rookie, and look at 16TDs, 11 INTs, and just over 3500 yards passing. Is that something you would really correlate with a QB " leading" his team to the playoffs? Dare i use the dreaded " game manger"?

He had a solid to good rookie season. Nothing off the wall spectacular.

They (we?) are excited for Ryan because of the fact that he did put up pedestrian numbers, did a good job of not screwing up, and showed veteran poise as a rookie.

Most rookie QBs struggle in the NFL (Brady: 0 games started. Manning: 28 interceptions. Aikman: 1-11 with 55 QB rating), so when a rookie QB is able to complete 61% of his passes, throw more TDs than interceptions, and throw for nearly 3500 yards, people get excited for his potential. Matt Ryan is known to have a terrific work ethic (he was in the film room Monday morning after the playoff loss to Arizona) and when you combine that with his already high football acumen (he was running no huddle in his 2nd road game ever against a division rival), the sky is the limit for Ryan.

Sure his numbers look average, but when you take into account that he was a rookie who showed tremendous poise throughout the season, has a work ethic compared to Manning (Mike Peterson compared him to Manning), and leadership abilities compared to Brady (Lawyer Milloy compared him to Brady), people will be excited about his future.

TitleTown088
05-05-2009, 09:40 PM
They (we?) are excited for Ryan because of the fact that he did put up pedestrian numbers, did a good job of not screwing up, and showed veteran poise as a rookie.

Most rookie QBs struggle in the NFL (Brady: 0 games started. Manning: 28 interceptions. Aikman: 1-11 with 55 QB rating), so when a rookie QB is able to complete 61% of his passes, throw more TDs than interceptions, and throw for nearly 3500 yards, people get excited for his potential. Matt Ryan is known to have a terrific work ethic (he was in the film room Monday morning after the playoff loss to Arizona) and when you combine that with his already high football acumen (he was running no huddle in his 2nd road game ever against a division rival), the sky is the limit for Ryan.

Sure his numbers look average, but when you take into account that he was a rookie who showed tremendous poise throughout the season, has a work ethic compared to Manning (Mike Peterson compared him to Manning), and leadership abilities compared to Brady (Lawyer Milloy compared him to Brady), people will be excited about his future.

I'm not talking about feeling warm and fuzzy about the future because he has poise and watched some film. I am talking about an average season he had as a rookie. Sure it was fairly impressive for a rookie, but nothing to crap a brick over. What gets me is the people who act like he's the sole reason they made it to the playoffs and use that as reasoning for his now given hall of fame career.

Halsey
05-05-2009, 09:43 PM
And he threw a whoppin' 15 of them after that. Count me in the group ( probably the only member) that says Matt Ryans rookie year is one of the most overrated " accomplishments" ever.

There's always the guys who want to be different just to be different.

Bengalsrocket
05-05-2009, 10:05 PM
They (we?) are excited for Ryan because of the fact that he did put up pedestrian numbers, did a good job of not screwing up, and showed veteran poise as a rookie.

Most rookie QBs struggle in the NFL (Brady: 0 games started. Manning: 28 interceptions. Aikman: 1-11 with 55 QB rating), so when a rookie QB is able to complete 61% of his passes, throw more TDs than interceptions, and throw for nearly 3500 yards, people get excited for his potential. Matt Ryan is known to have a terrific work ethic (he was in the film room Monday morning after the playoff loss to Arizona) and when you combine that with his already high football acumen (he was running no huddle in his 2nd road game ever against a division rival), the sky is the limit for Ryan.

Sure his numbers look average, but when you take into account that he was a rookie who showed tremendous poise throughout the season, has a work ethic compared to Manning (Mike Peterson compared him to Manning), and leadership abilities compared to Brady (Lawyer Milloy compared him to Brady), people will be excited about his future.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but Peterson and Milloy would say that about any rookie QB on their team, regardless of who it is. it's not like they're going to get in front of a camera and start saying "Well, Manning was better at doing <insert random quality of a QB> when he was a rookie" or "Brady had more potential when he was younger, Ryan is just solid".

Also, win / lose record and interceptions often don't concern GMs when talking about a rookie QB. It's not till after they've officially labeled themselves as busts that the media starts to latch onto these statistics.

No one cared that Manning threw 2 more INT's than TDs, Palmer threw the same amount of TDs / INTs, or that Aikman threw 9 more INTs than TDs. And none of these guys had good records either :P

When talking about Matt Ryan, you have to focus on the parts that GM's care about. Things like, his fundamentals (foot work, throwing motion, release etc.) and also his confidence in the pocket. Both of which Matt Ryan excelled at his rookie year.