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Pat Sims 90
05-06-2009, 03:18 PM
Just saw on NFL and on Bengals.com that Roy Williams has reached a agreement.

Now do we keep him a S or move him to LB

Either way i like this signing more depth for a Def i see in Top 10 next year

Crickett
05-06-2009, 03:25 PM
Just saw on NFL and on Bengals.com that Roy Williams has reached a agreement.

Now do we keep him a S or move him to LB

Either way i like this signing more depth for a Def i see in Top 10 next year

Given who the Bengals have drafted at LB the past two years, why not keep him at safety?

D-Unit
05-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Will be watching from afar to see how this story unfolds. Good Luck.

StripedWalrus
05-06-2009, 03:50 PM
Is ay keep him at S

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 03:56 PM
Seems like a very unnecessary signing, but I guess you can never have enough bodies.

Pat Sims 90
05-06-2009, 03:59 PM
Seems like a very unnecessary signing, but I guess you can never have enough bodies.

How is it unnecessary we have had Injury problems at S for last couple years this is a great signing for Depth

Bengals78
05-06-2009, 04:02 PM
I think it is a very good signing. It might seem excessive but we do add depth to safety and with recent injury plagued years, its worth having the bodies. Plus on running downs he would make for a studly S to put in the box with Ndukwe in the back roaming. Adds a lot of flex to our secondary IMO

WMD
05-06-2009, 04:02 PM
Well, you're guaranteed at least one Pro Bowler this year..

Bengals78
05-06-2009, 04:03 PM
Well, you're guaranteed at least one Pro Bowler this year..

And on defense no less lol.
I think he could really return to his former self under Zimmer.

HawkeyeFan
05-06-2009, 04:03 PM
Well, you're guaranteed at least one Pro Bowler this year..
The SS, not the WR :P


If Roy Williams makes the Pro Bowl, all hell will break lose..

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 04:25 PM
The SS, not the WR :P


If Roy Williams makes the Pro Bowl, all hell will break lose..

Both Roy William the safety and the receiver have made the probowl. The Safety has actually made 5 probowls, most of which hardcore football fans thought he was undeserving of, there in lies the joke "at least you've got a guaranteed probowler"

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 04:39 PM
How is it unnecessary we have had Injury problems at S for last couple years this is a great signing for Depth

First off, when I made my original post, I said 'you can never have enough bodies' in reference to the fact that depth can be useful.

Unfortunately for us, we can't predict where our injuries will occur. It's possible every safety on the roster becomes injured this season. It's also possible that no one on the roster becomes injured.

However, right now we have 5 capable safeties, who can more than likely play both FS and SS, in Lynch, White, Ndukwe, Crocker, Hebert. Adding Roy Williams takes that number to 6. Which means there will most definitely be a position battle for the starting safety jobs. In said battle, it's possible we stunt Ndukwe, White, Hebert and Lynch's growth as they get pushed out of the starting / immediate back up positions.

Right now it looks as if Hebert and Lynch will see very little play time outside of special teams. Both of which would be more than adequate to sit in on defense as back ups / for certain packages, meanwhile growing as players.

Now, instead of these players learning the game on the field, they're going to sit behind a strong safety who is 7-8 years into his career and still doesn't know how to cover. Ask any Dallas fan why Roy Williams was let go, and undoubtedly they will tell you how terrible he is at coverage.

The fact that this signing is getting praised so much is direct evidence to how little our fans watch other teams play. At this point, I can only assume that you went on Wikipedia, typed in Roy Williams, saw that he went to 5 Probowls and then rushed back here to tell everyone how great of a signing this was.

Sometimes, one man's trash is another man's treasure. In this case, The Cowboy's trash is now the Bengal's trash, disguised as a golden package.

Bengals78
05-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Roy's coverage issues came mostly due to lack of secondary help and that he didnt fit well into the new scheme. I am not saying he is a stud in coverage but he is competent. Lynch and Hebert would probably be nothing more than back-ups anyways. White will benefit from having Williams here I think (they both play for big hits).
Systems can have a lot to do with a players success. Maybe the change back to when he did his best will help him.

As for people acting like he is gold, you're acting like he is completely and total trash. I would agree if we ran out a base 3-4 like Dallas has in the past few years.

lost33cause
05-06-2009, 05:13 PM
1. He was a pro bowler under zimmer...
2. Zimmer says he can do both(cover and run defense)
3. Roy is coming to a run first division so even if he is lacking in coverage, he's in the right division
4. In Zimmer I trust
5. Lynch and Herbert(sp?) are backups...White is coming off a knee injury...

TACKLE
05-06-2009, 05:15 PM
I don't think Cincy uses a lot of zone blitzes so he could probably play rush end. Anything to keep him out of coverage.

D-Unit
05-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Roy's coverage issues came mostly due to lack of secondary help and that he didnt fit well into the new scheme. I am not saying he is a stud in coverage but he is competent. Lynch and Hebert would probably be nothing more than back-ups anyways. White will benefit from having Williams here I think (they both play for big hits).
Systems can have a lot to do with a players success. Maybe the change back to when he did his best will help him.

As for people acting like he is gold, you're acting like he is completely and total trash. I would agree if we ran out a base 3-4 like Dallas has in the past few years.
I agree. Terence Newman, Anthony Henry and Ken Hamlin were not good enough support. The scheme change from the 4-3 to the 3-4 completely altered the responsibilities of everyone in the secondary.

Bengals78
05-06-2009, 05:22 PM
Newman spent a lot of time out.
Hamlin hasn't been there the entire time.
Being in college (without NFL Network) I haven't been able to watch many out of market games. (Lots of Browns and Lions here) so maybe I am wrong. But he was at one point in time, under Zimmer, a really good safety.
I am not calling him the Golden Knight to save our franchise and lift us to a SB, but he is a good signing and will be better than what we have, Lynch hasn't proven anything, Crocker was good but is he a full time guy? Hebert needs to play smarter and not taking as many penalties as I saw him take. (might not have been that many but from the games I saw)

On a side note; D-Unit, who you taking Penn or Florian?

D-Unit
05-06-2009, 05:50 PM
Newman spent a lot of time out.
Hamlin hasn't been there the entire time.
Being in college (without NFL Network) I haven't been able to watch many out of market games. (Lots of Browns and Lions here) so maybe I am wrong. But he was at one point in time, under Zimmer, a really good safety.
I am not calling him the Golden Knight to save our franchise and lift us to a SB, but he is a good signing and will be better than what we have, Lynch hasn't proven anything, Crocker was good but is he a full time guy? Hebert needs to play smarter and not taking as many penalties as I saw him take. (might not have been that many but from the games I saw)

On a side note; D-Unit, who you taking Penn or Florian?
Is that even a question??? PENN BABY! :)

I hope Roy works out for you guys. He's a good guy. You can't tell me the excuses he has. I've thought of every single one in the book and even made up some in trying to defend him many a time. Happy to wash my hands clean of that. Funny how we as fans will stick up for any player our team acquires. It's a natural born homer characteristic. Roy made many highlight plays for us. He honestly, didn't make the Pro Bowl with zero creditability despite what the haters will say. It's those highlights that will keep you guys happy. At the same time, he gives up too much to keep you happy long enough with those highlights.

He had plenty of time with Newman and Hamlin and still failed. Saying he had a weak supporting cast is not a good excuse. Saying he is slow, slightly overweight and lacking in good coverage instincts is a good excuse.

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 05:56 PM
Roy's coverage issues came mostly due to lack of secondary help and that he didnt fit well into the new scheme. I am not saying he is a stud in coverage but he is competent. Lynch and Hebert would probably be nothing more than back-ups anyways. White will benefit from having Williams here I think (they both play for big hits).
Systems can have a lot to do with a players success. Maybe the change back to when he did his best will help him.

As for people acting like he is gold, you're acting like he is completely and total trash. I would agree if we ran out a base 3-4 like Dallas has in the past few years.

I think it's to easy of an excuse to blame the entire Dallas secondary for Roy's problems in covering TE's and slot receivers.

As far as Lynch and Hebert go, of course they're back ups, that's the whole point. The reason guys like TJ Houshmanzadeh or Tom Brady come out of late rounds is because you allow them to become back ups. Depth players have to climb the ladder. if you keep adding another rung after each step they take, they'll never finish the ladder.

As far as Zimmer goes, I trust him. He's clearly a very smart man who knows how to get things done. I have extreme doubts that he can do all that much with Roy now, but he's already stated that Roy isn't guaranteed the starting job. Also, Bengals.com said that the deal was short term with a lot of incentives.

And lastly, I don't think Roy is trash, I think the signing is trash. Roy could, and still may be, a productive safety in this league. I just think that his skills could be better utilized on a team with better defensive backs and a better pash rushing unit that can disguise his lack of coverage skills.

Bengals78
05-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Saying he is slow, slightly overweight and lacking in good coverage instincts is a good excuse.

Now you're just naming things me and Roy have in common and making me like him more. lol

Pat Sims 90
05-06-2009, 06:53 PM
First off, when I made my original post, I said 'you can never have enough bodies' in reference to the fact that depth can be useful.

Unfortunately for us, we can't predict where our injuries will occur. It's possible every safety on the roster becomes injured this season. It's also possible that no one on the roster becomes injured.

However, right now we have 5 capable safeties, who can more than likely play both FS and SS, in Lynch, White, Ndukwe, Crocker, Hebert. Adding Roy Williams takes that number to 6. Which means there will most definitely be a position battle for the starting safety jobs. In said battle, it's possible we stunt Ndukwe, White, Hebert and Lynch's growth as they get pushed out of the starting / immediate back up positions.

Right now it looks as if Hebert and Lynch will see very little play time outside of special teams. Both of which would be more than adequate to sit in on defense as back ups / for certain packages, meanwhile growing as players.

Now, instead of these players learning the game on the field, they're going to sit behind a strong safety who is 7-8 years into his career and still doesn't know how to cover. Ask any Dallas fan why Roy Williams was let go, and undoubtedly they will tell you how terrible he is at coverage.

The fact that this signing is getting praised so much is direct evidence to how little our fans watch other teams play. At this point, I can only assume that you went on Wikipedia, typed in Roy Williams, saw that he went to 5 Probowls and then rushed back here to tell everyone how great of a signing this was.

Sometimes, one man's trash is another man's treasure. In this case, The Cowboy's trash is now the Bengal's trash, disguised as a golden package.

I can see you don't watch a lot of our games because when Hebert was in he looked worst then Williams every did in Dallas plus White has yet to have a season where he is healthy Nduke has had 1 healthy season since being here Lynch was hurt all last year. So yes i am in total agreement with this signing i figure he will be starting sometime this season because i know from the last couple i can tell we are going to be short at S

Paul
05-06-2009, 06:55 PM
1. He was a pro bowler under zimmer...
2. Zimmer says he can do both(cover and run defense)
3. Roy is coming to a run first division so even if he is lacking in coverage, he's in the right division
4. In Zimmer I trust
5. Lynch and Herbert(sp?) are backups...White is coming off a knee injury...

1. He was a Pro Bowler with Darren Woodson beside him and group of quick agile LB (Nguyen and Coakley) in front of him who were very good in coverage. Since there departure, Roy's PB selections were from cowboys homers who don't know any better.

2. Love Zimmer for what he did for the Cowboys when he was here, but he isn't getting the same Roy of 4 years ago. He's less confident, less productive and about 20 lbs heavier.

3. His "run stopping ability" is purely based on reputation. For a guy who is famous for game changing hits and ability in the box, I can't even recall the last time he made a play behind the LOS. But I guess you could call his horsecollar tackles game changing in a way.

4. Zimmer is indeed the man.

PalmerToCJ
05-06-2009, 09:15 PM
I'm going to get destroyed with finals tomorrow so I can't ramble on tonight... I will say this, they are signing him because they think he can be at least close to his old self. Safety obviously isn't a need really and we also have depth so this is a quality signing in their eyes. Zimmer much still be affectionate about him.

Zimmer is yet to let me down so I'm not really against it. I will say our depth on defense is pretty nasty at this point (less CB), way better off than the offense.

StripedWalrus
05-06-2009, 10:52 PM
I believe one of our S's will be playing a bit of nickel this season hence the Williams signing. I like the Williams signing because it gives us a Vet on the defense.

MooshooGawd
05-06-2009, 11:09 PM
At first I didn't like the signing. The defense is better with Ndukwe in there and I didn't want them to bring in Williams and take snaps away from Chinny.

However, they know what they're doing. This front office has had one hell of an offseason. I trust that they'll make it work.

Plus if he could knock that smile of Hines' face, that would make the signing worth it right there.

Bengalsrocket
05-06-2009, 11:10 PM
I can see you don't watch a lot of our games because when Hebert was in he looked worst then Williams every did in Dallas plus White has yet to have a season where he is healthy Nduke has had 1 healthy season since being here Lynch was hurt all last year. So yes i am in total agreement with this signing i figure he will be starting sometime this season because i know from the last couple i can tell we are going to be short at S

Don't know why I'm arguing this anymore...

Hebert obviously isn't going to look as good as Roy. he's just starting his pro career (though he's not very young).

And I suppose I can say it again because apparently reading isn't our strongest skill set; Yes, Roy Williams would be good depth in case of an injury.

Look, I'm not saying that injuries don't happen. I'll even admit that Roy would be a suitable back up for us. However, if you're looking for SS, why not getting the younger version of him in Marvin White, or the smarter more versatile Ndukwe? And there is no way Roy can play FS better than Crocker / Ndukwe. Lynch and Hebert are guys we are trying to teach, it's more valuable to have them on the field learning then it is to get a small upgrade out of Roy. As far as linebacker goes, we've got a stable of young and veteran linebackers who can all serve their job at least as well as Roy would.

Again, people took my first post and turned it into this "Omgz he hates the Roy William signing" - I'm just saying it's unnecessary. There is absolutely nothing he brings to this team that we don't already have.

lost33cause
05-06-2009, 11:16 PM
I don't see why we're saying who's a good backup at this point or not. May the best player win the starting job and the other fight for the backup spots. He's on our team and we'll see how things work out.

PalmerToCJ
05-07-2009, 12:25 AM
I really really doubt he's being brought in to be a starter, at least I hope not. The guy used as depth and in situational roles would be perfect. We're VERY young in the secondary and adding someone with some experience is never a bad thing. Honestly, we have to have by far the youngest secondary in the league.

Ndukwe is one of -if not the- biggest playmakers on defense. He absolutely should and will be on the field. Crocker and White can work things as well.

It can be used as a means of adding depth, experience and a situational guy that can make an impact.

I think this signing needs to be taken as it is, not a big time signing to bring in a starter nor is it some ancient guy with a big contract. He's worth the risk and I think that's all you can ask for. The staff clearly sees a use for him because as I mentioned, we don't need depth or quality at safety really.

We've got a lot of depth on defense.

D-Unit
05-07-2009, 12:37 AM
At first I didn't like the signing. The defense is better with Ndukwe in there and I didn't want them to bring in Williams and take snaps away from Chinny.

However, they know what they're doing. This front office has had one hell of an offseason. I trust that they'll make it work.

Plus if he could knock that smile of Hines' face, that would make the signing worth it right there.
He probably won't hit Hines like a mac truck, but he could end his career with a nifty horse collar. ;)

Bengals78
05-07-2009, 01:05 AM
He probably won't hit Hines like a mac truck, but he could end his career with a nifty horse collar. ;)

Ill buy his jersey then buy him a steak dinner at Jeff Ruby's.

lol

M.O.T.H.
05-07-2009, 01:20 AM
I think D said it best earlier on the 1st page...good luck.

Is he even compentent in coverage, as was mentioned? That's actually in question. He does have a noted learning disability and his football IQ seems to be incredibly low as well. He should help in the running game but, he is one of the worst safeties in zone coverage, that I have ever seen...and he can't cover in man at all either. He would make for a better LB at this point but, you obviously dont need him there. Blaming his coverage deficiencies on the scheme is straight bologna. Wade did end up modifying his defense to put Roy in the right position but, it wasn't helping things any. He is just awful, awful, awful in coverage, it's as simple as that. Just well, good luck with that. Maybe Zimmer can help him return to form again but, he's not a miracle worker. Keith Davis was a better safety than Roy was the last few years here. Roy looks like he is just about done. I hope he does well, he's nice guy but, I dont think he's going to fair too well.

themaninblack
05-07-2009, 01:54 AM
I don't see how he even gets much playing time TBH. Good signing for depth and can probably be somewhat of a mentor to the younger guys, but I'd really like to see the money involved with this before I make any real judgment.

Modano
05-07-2009, 02:03 AM
Roy's coverage issues came mostly due to lack of secondary help and that he didnt fit well into the new scheme. I am not saying he is a stud in coverage but he is competent. Lynch and Hebert would probably be nothing more than back-ups anyways. White will benefit from having Williams here I think (they both play for big hits).
Systems can have a lot to do with a players success. Maybe the change back to when he did his best will help him.

As for people acting like he is gold, you're acting like he is completely and total trash. I would agree if we ran out a base 3-4 like Dallas has in the past few years.

Nope, he's not competent in coverage, he does suck. He used to be my favorite player but he betrayed me :( He's really lost 3 or 4 steps. He's always, ALWAYS late in coverage. And he seems like he lost his passion for the game, he seems like he's afraid to hit now. Roy Williams is done.

hobbes2053
05-07-2009, 08:33 AM
I really really doubt he's being brought in to be a starter, at least I hope not. The guy used as depth and in situational roles would be perfect. We're VERY young in the secondary and adding someone with some experience is never a bad thing. Honestly, we have to have by far the youngest secondary in the league.

Ndukwe is one of -if not the- biggest playmakers on defense. He absolutely should and will be on the field. Crocker and White can work things as well.

It can be used as a means of adding depth, experience and a situational guy that can make an impact.

I think this signing needs to be taken as it is, not a big time signing to bring in a starter nor is it some ancient guy with a big contract. He's worth the risk and I think that's all you can ask for. The staff clearly sees a use for him because as I mentioned, we don't need depth or quality at safety really.

We've got a lot of depth on defense.

This is the signing summed up perfectly. I can't see him starting seeing as what Ndukwe and Crocker/White bring. He should be used as a situational safety IMO.

ThePudge
05-09-2009, 01:01 PM
It would be a surprise if the starting Safeties in Cincinnati were not Chinedum Ndukwe and Chris Crocker. They were arguably the Bengals two best defensive players a year ago. Marvin Lewis and Mike Zimmer love Crocker and it's hard not to like Ndukwe. Marvin White and Roy Williams are likely the first two off the bench and will hopefully play a good deal on special teams units. I do expect the two to rotate in a good deal as they are perhaps the Bengals two best hitters. Corey Lynch and Herbert are your next two and will likely see little time on defense and will stick on the roster due to special teams value.

I don't mind the Roy Williams signing at all, he's a strong veteran presence among a young group of Safeties. He's enthusiastic about being in Cincinnati and re-connecting with Mike Zimmer could revive the 28 year old Williams' career. I expect a backup and Special Teams force though.

I do like the signing as it shows people that these aren't the same Bengals. They are not willing to sit back and simply wait, they have taken action this offseason and I do believe that they think they got something in Williams. The image of the defense has certainly changed quickly from one of the league's softest units to a solid unit with some real hitters in White, Williams, and Maualuga. They are finally getting the memo that to play in the AFC North, you need to be physical and aggressive. I like it whether he works out or not. They took a chance.

GhostDeini
05-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Are there any Santana Moss like wr's in your divison ? IF there is they'll smoke Roy Williams just as bad as where he's coming from.

themaninblack
05-10-2009, 05:51 AM
After seeing his interviews and whatnot I am pretty happy with this signing. He may not be a starting player on this team but he can offer some really good options as far as role playing and he will definitely be a great influence on our young secondary. We didn't really pay him much and I'll be real honest, I am happy he's here. I think he will be able to hit some people at the very least.

PalmerToCJ
05-10-2009, 01:08 PM
Exactly. He's not a starter but he will fill several roles nicely.

It's nice to have depth at safety after we had to play freaking Ohalete for an entire season... That was just awful.